Two picking techniques square off. Who wins? USX vs DBX

[@Frenkel111]

In the example of 3 notes per string scales with dbx, it looks to me like you're switching between dsx and usx. It doesn't look like just one type of motion. Is it really a double escape motion? If it is then it's really hard to see.

[@troygrady]

Great question! There is lots of variety in the way different double escape techniques work. Some players make mostly DBX motions all the time, like Steve Morse, Molly Tuttle, and Albert Lee. Others like Andy Wood mix and match DBX pickstrokes with other pickstroke types like DSX, and even two-way pickslanting, which are smaller contributory forearm adjustments. Here's an example of what this more complex type of mixing looks like when going fast on a common phrase ( kzbin.infoJhac4mj9Pp0 ). The precise combination of motions you end up with is influenced by many factors from the overall form, to the the specific joints you are using, whether the joint has multiple axes of motion or just one, and so on. Moreover, many of these smaller details are learned subconsciously. It's complicated! Our instructional stuff goes into greater detail about the motion mixing that can happen in certain styles, but in this lesson I'm trying to give you a bigger-picture view of the common forms and which picking styles they pertain to, specifically for wrist technique. The form and general motion path is really what you want to look at first when getting started, not the individual motions themselves, which are largely learned subconsciously in many respects.

[@Frenkel111]

@troygrady Got it. Thanks for the detailed explanation, Troy! I really appreciate it. Like all your videos, this one too is so interesting and inspiring.

[@Locrian1]

​@@troygrady Thank you Troy, I signed up today for another refresher course as i'd previously sort of glossed over the whole DBX stuff. I have a couple of thoughts/queries which I'd be grateful for any insight you may be able to share here, but no pressure either, just if you want to. Here goes: In your opinion, how does DBX compare to 2WPS?. When i see examples of DBX, it seems to oftentimes resemble more of a 2WPS style and less the holy grail of complete random access of any string at any time. On its face it may seem like that but my (granted brief) foray into the technique leaves me feeling like its complexity steers you into familiar, serviceable pathways as opposed to the Holy Grail of complete random access of string. It may be that I am too unfamiliar with the technique yet, but I am sort of veering towards the Keep It Simple Stupid mentality of USX. Its simplicity seems to offer more random access for me (especially when combined with 2WPS). Thank you again for helping us all see our guitars more clearly. You are both a wizard and a scientist of the art.

[@troygrady]

@@Locrian1 Just to be clear, when you say two-way pickslanting, do you mean intermittent swiveling motions of the forearm to assist with certain string changes? Because you will see that with all these picking styles, and especially with double escape. For example if you look at the arpeggio sequence at 12:20, you will see 2wps on the lower string change between the D and A strings. This doesn't change the fact that if you want to play lines like this with wrist technique, you still need to learn to do double escape pickstrokes with wrist motion. 2wps doesn't take the place of that - it is a type of helper motion occurring at the same time. This is a complicated subject and this lesson is the simplest way I can break it down because it gives you two big-picture things you can do: the form, and the general motion. If you want to play USX phrases, use USX form and make sure you can do a USX tremolo. If you want to play phrases that include either (1) all downstroke string changes, or (2) both upstroke and downstroke string changes, use DBX form and follow the wrist path. This kills two birds with one stone - DSX lines and DBX lines. If you can't do both styles, then get whichever one you can get and adjust your vocabulary to match.

[@Locrian1]

@@troygrady thanks for responding, yes when I say 2WPS, I am talking about changes in hand or arm rotation to facilitate escape from strings. I guess you have answered my question as best you can. The example at 12:23 is basically the only reason i'd want to use this technique, though the broken chords can very obviously be played with a basic strum too; dragging the pick through the strings. But my guess is you posited that example to show DBX's potential for 1NPS arpeggiated stuff - i may find a use for that at some point. But the short of it is, you are saying DBX is its own discipline which allows for string escapes (albeit ones which can and very often do utilize 2WPS in order to achieve or augment this end) I may revisit this at some stage but for now I reckon I have all the escape options I need in USX and 2WPS without having to learn another form. Thanks again Troy, take care. ********** Edit The Albert Lee interview made most of this make sense troygrady.com/2019/12/04/alberts-amazing-wrist/. It seems you were a little taken aback when Lee hopped over the adjacent string on his downstroke. This is so common to me that i don't think about it. This is when you started to coin the term DBX as well no? This is when you also stopped using the terms DWPS and UWPS, (terms which i to this day still prefer over USX and DSX but i digress) I know you make a distinction between wrist movements and forearm but this is kind of why this whole thing confused me. It doesn't really matter where the movement comes from as long as it clears the string? The escape for me is part forearm, part wrist, and in the case of a descending passage, part finger and thumb.

[@LeviClay]

Troy is (rightly) cited as one of the most important figured in the history of guitar pedagogy, but not nearly enough credit is given to him as a player. It's genuinely scary how brutally articulate your technique is man. The most impressive thing is you execute all this stuff while picking like you hit those strings with a sledgehammer - it's SO punchy!

[@troygrady]

Thanks for reminding me about the pick attack. Not every word needs to have an exclamation point!

[@LeviClay]

@ but! You! Play! With! Such! Authority!

[@derikdavis567]

Troy's playing is so good here. He just keeps improving. And some tasty bebop lines here too.

[@TechMetalRules]

Hear, hear!

[@johnnylayton1672]

The over-the-top sounding articulation here yes is to make a pedagogical argument not so much express a kind of musical style, but Al Di Meola, Steve Morse & John McLaughlin nevermind Sam Bush, Bela Fleck & other stringed instrumentalists all play in this more seemingly authoritative way where the dynamics & accents can be more difficult to discern. It's all what made the bow & stringed instrument designs to facilitate using the bow so compelling, but I think the flatpicking drawbacks such as what is being noticed here are what makes guitar such a fantastic ensemble oriented instrument especially to distingush & spotlight singer(s) and even the lyrics. Furthermore, this issue is in part why players like Eric Johnson, Tom Bukovac, Tomo Fujita & even the late Jeff Beck routinely switch from pick to fingerstyle not just hybrid picking even within the same song. And even for violin family instruments the bow will be "palmed" also so that pizzicato can be done which is noticeably different sound in its own right.

[@ChrisCollinsGuitar]

Love the new jazzier harmonic vocabulary in your playing!

[@johnpereira2910]

Thank you for the clearly written explanation of the whole subject which you have provided on your website. What was throwing me off \ that escape motion and pick-slanting are two completely separate things. I find that holding the pick perpendicular while escaping in different ways is the most natural. Exaggerated pick-slanting didn't help.

[@matthewearl9824]

Troy you're crazy. Love how you shred on these uncommon guitars. And with a clean tone. Proves the technique, and thanks for your responses in my email.

[@petermuller161]

The depth and detail is totally unmatched.

[@ajpeagle]

You put in to words and explained exactly what I did as an unknowing USX player since the 80s great content.

[@troygrady]

That's how I started. They key is you can have the technique, but you don't play lines where the last note on each string is an upstroke, things can feel weird and be sloppy. This usually means even numbers of notes per string with USX. It wasn't until I accidentally played an evens phrase really cleanly that I made the connection. Better late than never!

[@adamusher5294]

Another great video Troy. At around 12:50 you mention that people often don't realise that what they play while improvising is influenced by their technique, something that never occurred to me in my first 10 or so years of playing was how much my practice drills influenced the sound of my improv. I would practice dozens of patterns that were rhythmically uniform, and generally atonal. Even if I was playing an appropriate 3 notes per string scale I wouldn't highlight and chord tones, or pay much attention to which beat I was on. My first light bulb moment was when I rehashed drills/exercises to sound musical. Sometimes it's as simple as adding short licks to lead in to each blazing passage, and being aware of what scale degree (and beat) I was going to end the pattern on.

[@troygrady]

You're totally right. The three note per string thing does not have any built-in way to know which of the notes in the sequence is actually a chord tone. That's the secret superpower of jazz players, starting from chord shapes and learning the scale notes around them, so you know where the juicy notes are. It's an actual mechanical difference in the way many of those players learn.

[@jiminippo]

I would like to add to this that in my opinion guitarists totally underestimate how much tuning affects what they play. It's more probable to use notes that are easy to reach on an adjacent string. Alternate tuning change this probability distribution totally. The "traditional" guitar vocabulary is tied to the standard tuning, but if you change to tuning in thirds or fifths, you most likely need to come up with a vocabulary of your own. I can tell this is both very exciting and terrifying! All (or most) of the existing learning material is useless with even a little bit more exotic alternate tunings.

[@FinBias]

these videos are pure gold

[@troygrady]

Thank you!

[@NoiseArcade]

It was 2018... I completely reengineered my playing (for the better) thanks to you. Can't thank you enough 🙏

[@thedonrizzguitar]

You are one of the best out there, thank you for all of your knowledge and efforts

[@PistolsPlayground]

I've been a two way pick slanter since 1998. I discovered it by accident when I read an article in Guitar Player magazine by Terry Syrek. Up til that point even though I could alternate pick 3 botes per string scale patterns, I couldn't get down Paul Gilberts string skipping arpeggios, until then. All the sudden it unlocked all kinds of doors, and with some practice it really made a lot of "impossible" things become a lot easier. Great breakdown, and awesome content, as usual.

[@troygrady]

Excellent. Just note that while you will certainly see two way pickslanting in DBX technique, this really depends on the player. The presence of the DBX pickstroke means that for many phrases actual 2wps is not needed. Albert Lee is a great example of a DBX player who almost never does 2wps. The pickstrokes are all semicircular so any string change is possible. He also has a USX technique but that's more like a "second mode" that he can activate for certain phrases and not really what I would call 2wps, if you see what I mean.

[@PistolsPlayground]

@troygrady definitely, you raise an excellent point. For anyone learning now. I'd say your videos are a must watch part of guitar education.

[@Locrian1]

​@@troygrady Okay that answers my question above on whether DBX is 2WPS or not. Are you using thumb and index finger to achieve the curve, or is it more from the wrist-- reason i ask is i will sometimes do 3NPS scalar stuff *without* reorienting my wrist every 2nd string, rather i will manipulate thumb and forefinger to arc the pick over strings ?

[@GigaCrafty]

GTOAT: Greatest Teacher of All Time

[@OurTrio]

The best, complexly the best…my very best guitar picking instructor ever since I ask myself how did my guitar heroes pick their legendary licks…Thank you sir, still here since 2018.

[@gjtube37]

Hi Troy! Your playing has gotten so good over the years. I am a happy member of your Cracking the Code site and have learned a lot from you and all of the amazing talent you have interviewed over the years. Your are to be commended for everything you have put into Cracking the Code. You have done an amazing job and I look forward to your new lessons. Also. can you please notate that absolutely stellar music you were playing at the beginning of this video. I would love to learn and study it! Thank you so much for all you do and please keep it coming! All the best!

[@troygrady]

Ok awesome thanks for supporting us! We'll try to get some of that stuff transcribed.

[@gjtube37]

@@troygrady Thank you very much!

[@synchosis9209]

You really get my brain goin, cause my guitar teacher is a classical player, and for some reason he’s like “you are playing all alternate picking, no cheating, no simplifying, you have to earn it”. You encourage me to experiment and express more to achieve the result rather than fighting the guitar, and maybe its what art is

[@ronjcharity]

Good to see you’re still at it…you changed the way I play for the better :)

[@zjow4755]

Nice to see you again, Troy.

[@MrOrb1979]

Awesome video Troy. I've been playing with the DBX method for so many years until recently I switched to USX for Faster and cleaner runs. Also I must mention that the Guitar Pick plays a very important role. I've been playing Jazz III all my life until last year I discovered Dava Delrin Picks with Rubber grip. They're the best I feel. So the Pick's stability and USX method really gives the edge and clarity while playing the runs. Thanks for such great insight. Cheers from India 👍

[@MoonlteIX]

Amazing as always🎉

[@frmrchristian8488]

Troy, I must say that you sir, have improved as a picker by leaps and bounds over the years!

[@troygrady]

I think it's just adding different tools but not necessarily better ones. One of the USX cutaways toward the end is from like 10 years ago. I can't do that any better nowadays. Not any worse, but also not any better! That's another nice thing about USX technique is that has a relatively low complexity. Once you learn a certrain number of patterns, they stick and it's easy to maintain the skill without much more than regular playing.

[@Xenbjorn]

As a USX player, DBX has always been challenging to play cleanly. I can pick much faster when going strictly alt picking with DBX but not as clean since you need to adjust the muting technique completely. Like you, I often ascend licks with USX and save DBX for descending patterns. Great vid Troy, cheers!

[@JohnVullo]

This is a really interesting video. In my first 28ish years playing, I started to lean more towards USX. But what happened was I felt having my fingers open and loosely anchoring on the body was 'cheating'. I was also scratching my guitars heavily from my nails. I was twisting my wrist a little more as well as my speed coming from my elbow, not wrist. I started to change how I play with more wrist and it turns out I have little to no radial deviation in my wrists, on both arms. So it seems like I came into USX naturally to correct a limitation I have. Right now I'm not sure exactly what I'm doing, but it's probably more like a light USX, with more wrist playing. My upstrokes have certainly gotten stronger but I was having way more difficulty with outside picking than I was before, when outside picking was easier than inside.

[@gnvtr20s]

Dig your channel so much. It’s helped me lots. ❤

[@dahbrezel]

that pitch shifter broke my brain there for a second :D

[@paulhansen6459]

Tremendous Timing Troy

[@PetriJuuhansson-wh4zp]

On my 20 years of playing guitar ive never heard of these terms before. Now that i know they exists, i observed how i play and it seems i use both of them depending on situation. Dont we all?

[@asherasator]

I can alternate pick all notes, arpeggios and scales at high speeds with either one, doesn't matter how many notes per string. For the DBX which I call "Mel Bay" style picking that most people first picking up the guitar get into that type of position naturally holding a pick, which Mel Bay books showed I originally did in my early years. Then when I started all alternate picking arpeggios especially on the treble strings I anchored my ring finger on the guitar with the index and thumb holding the pick more extended, that gets you deeper into the strings, the palm rests on the strings and can control muting easy which this would be my USX. I also have an open DBX type position with palm raised and resting on more of the middle finger and above the thumb knuckle slightly resting on the low E with the index finger and thumb holding the pick a little more curled than my USX. This position was achieved with just a slight inward wrist rotation. Then early this spring I sprained my index finger on my picking hand and because it was painful to play with index and thumb extended I went to a more closed hand no achoring but palm resting Mel Bay type position and can do it all. So overall I use now all 3 depending on how I want things to sound or how my hand feels with what I'm playing, because each position can have it's own sound variations. I found that with a standard 351 shape pick heavier gauges can lean more towards USX type positions since a less angled more parralel position works better for note integrity like Yngwie or Joe Stump, and medium or lighter picks can position with a little more angle for neutral or DBX type positions like Vinnie Moore or Paul Gilbert. Of course these positions can depend on string gauges as well which affects the overall mechanics.

[@R17759]

Excellent video Troy. Would you say there is a subtle amount of forearm happening in the USX form? Obviously it isn’t following the wrist/forearm blend path but sometimes it looks like there is a bit of forearm movement happening? Sort of like Brandon Ellis appears to when he plays? Since you can do both how do you differentiate the more wrist appearing vs the more obvious rotational appearing?

[@troygrady]

Great question! USX is just a property that any picking motion can have where upstrokes consistently escape. In this lesson I'm using wrist motion, and while you may see bits of other joints moving, the contributions aren't super significant. The important point is that this isn't intended as a way of saying this is how USX is done categorically. That depends on the technique you choose. You can do 100% forearm like EVH's tremolo technique, forearm and wrist like Doug Aldrich and Brandon Ellis, wrist like Mike Stern and (at times) Albert Lee, and so on. These are all different techniques and can all work. In our instructional stuff we teach wrist, flexed wrist (Gypsy), wrist-forearm, and forearm (EVH). These are probably the most common approaches. The key to any USX technique is that when going at tremolo speed, the motion should still appear diagonal and not revert to some other motion. Get whichever one you can get. Let me know if that helps!

[@R17759]

@@troygradyThank you Troy that does help. I feel that sometimes my forearm interferes when i dont want it to even when working on the DBX/DSX form. What you demonstrate here is what feels the most comfortable for me when it comes to USX, but because I can do a mostly wrist version and a more blended version they sometimes get confused I think.

[@saiyaniam]

If I had to pick one style for the rest of my life, USX would be it, the pulloffs are all you need to play very well, but I'd be upset I can't play various things that need dbx. So I'd always be upset, yet competent in playing. Never satisfied. And thats why I waste my time on alternate picking, Because I HAVE TOO, I NEED IT!!!!

[@troygrady]

You summarized all guitar learning in one pithy comment!

[@CalebePriester]

Troy, God bless you man! You are so fing cool, man!

[@NickZoumakis]

Hi Troy, excellent content as always, you seem to not graze the right hand ring finger on the pickguard when doing usx any more. As someone who' s just recently cracked usx with rotation, but with fingers grazing , I wonder if I should also perhaps experiment with a more floating hand, to save the finish on my guitars if not for anything else :P !

[@troygrady]

That's up to you. I can do both. I'm just doing this here for demonstration purposes so the supporting elements of both forms are the same and only the salient bits differ. I think the most important thing is get whatever you can get. Learning these things is not trivial, so whatever version you can do, that's the best technique. As they say in photography, the best camera is the one you have with you!

[@CallousCoder]

Another treasure chest of knowledge is being opened ❤❤

[@jimnikas4302]

Thanks, Troy. always valuable content.! I was curious if you've ever conducted a speed test between these two different types of motion. I'm just referring to raw picking speed a la tremolo or groupings of 16ths or 16th note triplets on a single string to determine if there's any significant difference and picking speed between the two.

[@troygrady]

Good question that probably other people are thinking. The answer is that USX and DSX aren't motions, they are just properties that different joint motions have. For example, an elbow player can be DSX player but so can a wrist player. If you want to know about performance, it's really the different joint techniques that have different speed capabilities, not the different escapes. Not only that, but multi-axis joints like the wrist have different speeds for each axis so it gets complicated. For example last year we looked at how certain axes of wrist motion offer more performance than other axes, and the faster players mostly choose those more performant axes ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIjYeJ6Onc9jipo ). So if you're in a death metal band, or you do super fast Gypsy strumming, you want to use the joint techniques that offer that kind of speed. The escape doesn't really matter. Whatever escape those joints offer, that's what you get if you want that performance.

[@picksalot1]

Maybe it would be a good idea to specify which side of the pick contacts the string first on a downstroke. For example on Downward Pick Slanting, the front/leading edge can strike the string first, or the rear/back edge can strike the string first on a downstroke, depending how the pick is held. This makes a big difference how the picking and escape feel.

[@MrSlimfinger]

Fuck the picking techniques, that's some beautiful phrasing and note choices man!

[@troygrady]

Thank you! Constant struggle not to play the same muscle memory stuff all the time.

[@Lavietto]

Troy you are so crazy good, like Rick Beato! You two guys, should make some videos together.

[@gnvtr20s]

Beato should interview troy 100%.

[@salvatormundi5184]

It's kind of surprising for me because my natural way of picking is DBX when ascending (from high E string going up) and USX when descending. It was never a counscious thing until I discovered your channel, and discovering the USX technique, notably played by Joscho Stephan. These days I'm forcing myself to play only in USX even going upward from high E string to low E string, just to get that different and typical USX sound, attack and rythm.

[@troygrady]

Joscho is awesome and a textbook example of how USX technique can work. It's the choice of most Gypsy jazz players, and how Django's own technique worked.

[@HeartcoreMitRA]

I've dropped a pick few years ago and went full-in on Matteo Mancuso style. And despite the fact that i could play both USX and DBX styles well enough, now it seems kinda weird and limiting, and in not the way you might think. It mostly goes down to the palette of sounds you have in your disposal. The pick sounds mostly similar, variating maybe in attack and angle, most commonly. While the fingers have huge difference in feel and sound even comparing thumb and other fingers pick, for example. So i found out that it's way more diverse way to express myself musically. Chris Buck demonstrates this perfectly, there's waaaay more dynamics at your disposal and you can control the frequency response from your playing much wider, making notes brighter or darker just by your fingers, which is significantly harder using the pick. It's kinda sad that the fingerstyle doesn't make much attention and practice usually goes with most focus on picking speed instead of intonation and sound nuances.

[@mattiassantoro2469]

As Italian I'm really proud of Mancuso. He's a Genius, no dubt. I remember in my early years as guitar player that many people said to me I was "cheating" when I used my fingers instead of picking on licks that was originally played with a pick. Now fortunately Hybrid picking and finger style are recognized techniques, the importante thing Is that they sounds good. Thus, I think that fingers have some limitation: they lack the same attack of a pick and are not suitable for every genre. Probably Mancuso can found a way to play "Bleed" by Meshuggah, but will It sound right? Same attack? Same punch?

[@HeartcoreMitRA]

@@mattiassantoro2469 I think Abasi approach might work really well with cases like "Bleed" or "BFG Division"

[@shyboy2112]

Great video as always, Troy! Three notes per string is sometimes still problematic for me. When lower strings are involved, I manage just fine with DBX and swiping, but this is somehow less effective on higher strings. My answer could be USX! Is a switch between the two positions (USX and DBX) also interesting as ascending across the strings?

[@fatshartspunhouse2403]

Great video. I’m currently putting nearly all my picking mechanics in to single string arpeggios in the style of Steve Morse. In particular I’m trying The Well Dressed Guitar. To me it feels like improving this technique gives me everything else alternate picking related for free.

[@troygrady]

Right on. I would just be wary of doing anything that's not actually fast. With the 1nps stuff it's super easy to get stuck at medium speeds and think you're really doing the thing when you're not. We usually start everyone on ascending sixes, fast, and film to make sure the DBX escapes happening. This is a more easily winnable training mission, and prevents medium speed stagnation. It's also one of the most common DBX sequences in everyday playing. Here's what the escapes should look like with DBX ( kzbin.infoJhac4mj9Pp0 ).

[@fatshartspunhouse2403]

I have that down more or less. I just lose that warp speed eith double escape

[@fatshartspunhouse2403]

I’ve been toying around this evening with doing the arpeggios at the end of that track for one bar and then switch to a pattern like the one in your linked video for a bar. That’s a great help. Thanks Troy!

[@troygrady]

You shouldn't experience speed limiting when trying to speed up, only accuracy changes. But you really have no choice but to film at faster playing speeds to see if the escape is correct. Here's what the Tumeni notes pattern looks like when done fast ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIrch5WkbNGEl9E ). Note the semicircular escapes on the 1nps parts. If you film at high speed and see this, but some of the notes are simply aimed wrong, that's good. That's accuracy which you can improve by slowing down a little. If instead you see wrong notes caused by wrong escapes, where the motion path no longer looks semicircular, that's a worse kind of "wrong". It means you are not doing the joint motion you are trying to do. Same if you can't speed up at all, that usually means stringhopping. That's the worst kind of wrong. In either of these two negative cases, make a change in the technique and film again. Don't spend hours and hours repeating the wrong motion/escape, always fix and try again.

[@fatshartspunhouse2403]

Thanks Troy. I think I’ve cracked it. My upstrokes were too flat to get over the string at speed in one note per sting patterns and I was tightening up to compensate at speed. I’ve pulled an extra 5% of speed out in a day. So I’m now able to play the end of well dressed guitar at 95% speed. It’s getting close! I also got Doc Watson’s devil’s dream up to speed for the first time. I’ve been playing 31 years and I feel like I’ve made months of progress in an hour.

[@MattBowmanmusic]

Beyond that fact that you're just an astoundingly amazing player and educator, your tone is also just awesome! What are you playing through here? I want to try and get something similar in my Fractal. Thanks Troy!

[@troygrady]

This is a Victory Jack, the one that looks like a big guitar pedal. Something is wrong with the Hellcat and it sounds weird now so I got this. The gain is voiced too bright and the clean is voiced a little too dark relative to each other, so I don't think the same eq knob settings work for both. At least for me anyway.

[@jcspaziano]

I needed this breakdown...I had to watch a few times because you shred so tasty!!!

[@tobiaswolf6630]

You should create another channel where you are "only" playing. I could listen to you for hours.

[@bluebay0]

That thumbnail. Troy is consummate.

[@troygrady]

I cheated, I live with a Streetfighter fan!

[@dis.infectant]

Sounds like both are working for you, Troy. Proof that the journey that will get you where you belong.

[@Forzabarbell]

May be a dumb question, but which angle is suited better for those that struggle with inside picking? Outside picking and inside picking when descending is not really an issue, but ascending it’s a huge pain. Thanks for all you do, Troy. This stuff is mind blowing.

[@MrVyrtuoso]

There's the 3rd option, which is that the picking motion just maintains a linear one parallel to the strings, and then do the corresponding pick slanting needed to escape a string only when crossing strings, downward slanting when crossing from lower to higher, and upward from higher to lower.

[@troygrady]

You're describing two-way pickslanting, which is of course a phenomenon which is real and for which we first coined the term. However when you film players up close who do this, that's not exactly what's going. 2wps players almost always do some type of switching of the direction of the wrist motion from one axis to the other, alongside the 2wps forearm motion. This may not be obvious to the player since the forearm movements are easier to feel than the wrist axis changes. So I understand why players who play this way may not realize what's going on under the hood. But when you look at the techniques in slow motion the axis-switching becomes more apparent. It's amazing how complex certain motor skills can be and how we're able to learn these things mostly subconsciously.

[@Locrian1]

Beautiful playing Troy. You've gotten even faster -- and jazzier (but no less good looking!)--with age i see. Is DBX the same as 2WPS? I see you are definitely doing that in places where there are obvious 3NPS scalar runs, but my recollection from when i checked in with you last was that you were sort of positing this technique as its own separate from 2WPS. I've definitely found ways of descending whereby the telltale wrist pronation and supination is non existent (or barely perceptible) and i've been playing around with those ideas which have helped me with descending lines in particular. btw i have since nailed the 3 octave sword. Can basically die happy now!!. Thank you Troy.

[@troygrady]

Great catch! Someone else had a similar question which I just answered a second ago. It's the pinned comment now. Check that out when you get a moment, and if any of it is not clear just respond in that thread and I'll take a look!

[@GuitarLife123]

Hello Troy :) How would you pick/play the Solo on Gary Moore's "Out in the fields"? There are some different Postions possible to play. I am not the "A cover must be 100 % original"...i just love to play, having fun and looking what technic/position/... is working for ME. I prefer to start the fast run at the 8th Fret / E String...its not like Gary would do this but i like to play in that area 🤷😄. To start the run you have to play 8/10/12 two times. I think it's all alternate. But i would prefer economy or directional picking. How would you play that fast run 🙂. Thank you and greetings from Germany :)

[@murielaf2733]

You helped me so much!!

[@troygrady]

Excellent. Any questions, feel free to ask.

[@Jeffero28]

Nice. Alternate picking has always been a weak point in my playing. I know part of it is due to me having a heavy picking hand and needing to lighten my touch. But now I'm wondering if it's also because I just assumed DBX was the only way l Definitely going to practice some USX technique.

[@troygrady]

USX can still play purely alternate picked lines, but there are rules, so to speak. Due to the diagonal motion path, the last note on each string needs to be an upstroke. This means not all phrases can be picked this way depending on the fretting. But the ones that CAN will be really clean when traversing strings. I recommend trying all approaches and doing whichever one you can get. This maximizes your chances of learning at least one that can become the go-to.

[@yoavyenon]

You have an incredible channel and content thank you. Now, please!! Get John McLaughlin sooner than too late.

[@kbkesq]

I know you play rock but would love to hear you play a hollow body and get a fat clean joe pass or George benson sound. Always love your videos. Do you have to pick so hard to play that fast or is it more just your preference?

[@troygrady]

We do have a really nice Gretsch, gets that sound a little. There's a clip or two on Instagram ( instagram.com/p/CGAuFOmHMEW/ ). Unfortunately one of the pickups went out, probably a loose wire, and I can't figure out how to get in there and fix it!

[@dis.infectant]

I'd say if you are able or nail one down, getting the other down is that much easier as you're just concentrating the inverse motion of something you're already doing anyway.

[@R17759]

I think that’s true. Once you can do any motion fast and smooth you know what it’s supposed to feel like and that makes learning others easier.

[@troygrady]

Absolutely!

[@Sarpi2000]

Somebody has to do this analytical work about classical/flamenco technique. Analyze Yamashita, Karai Guedes etc. difference between picado and normal classical picking, tremolo etc.

[@walkerthompson3320]

Great video, thanks for the wealth of knowledge. Does USX in this context always mean alternate picked, or do you ever economy pick on ascending USX runs (when the pick is planted into the next string)? I recently saw a Gypsy jazz video where the player described what essentially is USX playing, but it included economy pick motion for ascending string down stroke string change. For descending string down stroke string change, they had a separate down stroke called “the whip” which sort of seemed like a DSX motion. Go figure

[@troygrady]

Spot on! Downstroke sweeping is a core component of USX playing styles like Gypsy jazz and there is plenty of it in this lesson. The EJ fives pattern around 10:15 and the ascending scalar thing right after that, for example. Along with legato, these two things greatly expand the palette of what is possible in USX technique. This is actually an excerpt from our instructional sequence where this was already discussed. That's why some of this is referenced in passing but not fully explained here, so apologies for the confusion.

[@bitdevice]

I tend to use USX for ascending runs and DSX/DBX for descending. I also pick descending 3 note per string as follows DUD UDU UDU UDU which seems rare.

[@troygrady]

USX can't do ascending scales - the last note on every string needs to be an upstroke. However you * can * do DUD DUD DUD etc. using sweeping. Basically the same as what you do for descending scales just inverted. If that's what you do, then your approach sounds like a two-way sweeping approach which is perfectly sensible! Not that guitar has to be sensible, of course. :)

[@bitdevice]

@troygrady Yeah I do DUD DUD for ascending. I've always struggled with alternative picking because when I speed it up it always becomes some form of economy picking (sweeps). Now I just embrace it instead of fighting against it.

[@troygrady]

That sounds like a good plan!

[@thomashogan1985]

This guy is a top player

[@CaptainPooter]

Watched your videos a lot and one thing I never figured out is if the whole economy picking / string skipping, etc. is natural or practiced. For example, if an experienced player runs a scale and utilizes these techniques, are they thinking about it or is it just natural? If someone whips out a solo and utilizes these techniques I'm still unsure if they're actively thinking about when to skip, when to upstroke, when to downstroke, so on an so forth.

[@yetanotherflippinusername5174]

I still can't get anywhere near the speed and accuracy for something as simple as the Eric Johnson 5's lick despite playing for 40 years, it's depressing - my left hand fingers don't even seem to move fast enough to do it legato, so even if I could get the right hand accuracy/speed going I feel I'd fail - surely some players must have a greater mental/physical accuity for the instrument, otherwise we'd all be able to play like amazing artists which we can't. It clearly comes easier for some when you see 17 year olds with amazing abilities - I put in the time in the bedroom when I was a teen and had the obsession and no responsibilities, but still never got there...that's what I'm telling myself anyway!! Full of admiration for playing like yours Troy, must be a wonderful feeling to be able to play with such speed and accuracy every time - alas, I can only imagine!😂

[@troygrady]

Three pieces of advice. First, get a fast picking motion on a single note on a single string. ANY fast motion at all, with any joint, is better than no fast motion or stringhopping. It doesn't matter if you can control it or not yet. Two, not all fretting combinations are equal, so test them by repeating them, fast, to see if you're better at some than others: 124, 421, 134, 431, 123, 321, etc. From that point on, only use the easy ones. That's what Shawn Lane did. Three, you don't need fast fretting to work on fast picking. Do fast picking with slow fretting with patterns like this: 9999 5555 7777 5555 etc. Go fast and accent the first note of each chunk to line them up. Use only your motion from step one, and don't go super slow or you are likely to revert to a worse motion that is not the same even if it may look like it is the same. The game is made of winnable small steps, and you can do it!

[@yetanotherflippinusername5174]

@@troygrady That's very kind of you to take the time to reply and so fully - I will give this a go. I've been trying this long, why give up now right! Take care and thank you.

[@Marck6034]

After watching your videos I found out I'm a USX player but I love Steve Morse and finally I understand why I can't play many of his licks and stuff. This said how can I force myself to learn DBX? Actually at slow speeds I can control what motion I use but how do I "reset" my brain and tell it to use DBX also at fast speeds? Are there exercises that force you to use DBX?

[@Marck6034]

I'd like to add this thing that I noticed, when I play on the last four strings (G D A E) I can play way faster with DBX than on the first two strings always with DBX. Plus I also noticed on the low E string I've always used DBX but when playing fast for exampla a three notes per string from sixth to first string I play DBX on sixth string and from fifth string I switch to USX... But I want to use DBX always... It seems like the higher the string the less DBX I can use

[@gnvtr20s]

Is dbx or usx easier for palm muting? I suppose dbx bc your palm is closer to the strings… how do you even palm mute with usx? 🤔

[@inforthekills]

USX is much easier for PM. No need for "cat" grip.

[@sG_Chimera]

The real question is which is better (or the alternative) for general playing (strumming, single notes, etc)

[@mattiassantoro2469]

I think I've embraced and learned DSX mainly because of an advice given by a teacher when I've started: "you should put the side of your hand on the strings lower the one your a playing, so that you can mute them and avoid buzzes and noises, particulary with hi-gain distortions". I've attended few lessons with Guthrie Govan in the past, and I remember suggesting the same approach and I think his escape motion resulted in a DSX too. When trying USX, the required flex you talk in the video seems to create "an arch" that frees lower strings, making impossible to follow my teacher advice. This is particularly evident in "extreme" USX players like Martin Friedman: if you pause the video at 3:00, you can notice that is playing on the higher E string, and nothing is muting the remaining lower 5 strings. I've always wondered how it's possibile to play with hi-gain distortions in this way: Martin Friedman is the proof is possible, but never got the secret. Even if you are extremely precise hitting only the right string, minor movements of the guitar or just hitting the body with your fingers can introduce this noises.

[@troygrady]

In general, the USX form where you anchor on the bridge allows the most palm muting of any picking style because the posture lets you cover all six strings if you want. This is for situations where you want to play actual muted notes, not just control noise. As you point out, there is an alternate form of USX technique used by players like Doug Aldrich and Marty Friedman, and even EVH when doing his famous tremolo technique, where there is no contact on the strings at all. This form offers no palm muting at all, but can still sound clean on high gain because the amp acts as a compressor. We did a whole lesson on this very subject which you can check out right here! ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/epzFgX6klpyof68 )

[@mattiassantoro2469]

​@@troygradyWow! You made a lesson for everything!

[@caseylockwood5512]

Troy, when you do USX, do your fingers on your picking hand rub against the strings? Like on the smaller knuckles of them. I've been a DBX picker most of my life, and am trying to learn USX, but it feels pretty unnatural.

[@tearzofthefallen6586]

As a natural DSX player, I have always felt that DSX has way fewer applications than USX. With DSX, the phrases you can access are really limited mainly because economy picking with descending licks isnt very common outside of standard sweeps. But here, you only talk about DBX. Why are we ignoring DSX in this example? USX is a great technique and isnt that hard if its your natural style, but i find DBX to be difficult because most people dont naturally develop it, they tend to be DSX or USX. Would love a video talking about DSX in a similar manner.

[@plecology]

The action with the right wrist - Is it, A hit with a hammer, or a shake out a match for the USX, maestro please?

[@robloxgladiator6917]

have you done a jason becker technique video 🤔

[@ScottyBrockway]

How do you learn to avoid tensing up to the point of getting tired when trying to go fast? Can't seem to train myself to do that.

[@troygrady]

In general, if a technique isn't fast or easy, it's usually because it's not being done right, or because it simply isn't a good technique for whatever you are trying to do. This is an oversimplification but I think this is a fair generalization when it comes to instrument technique. Rather than piling on repetitions or doing more training to build strength or endurance, you get better results experimenting with slightly different ways of doing things until you find a way that goes fast and feels easy right away. As an example, you can check our previous lesson on fast wrist motion for some ways that players in speed-focused styles like metal alter their technique to achieve more performance. Here's the link ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIjYeJ6Onc9jipo )

[@greypawn7780]

pick brand, thickness, material plse ?

[@OlemirCandido]

We know about the true technique of a guy, when he's playing a clean tone. 😊👍🏽

[@troygrady]

I know what you mean! But I will say, my partner is a classical mandolinist with great picking tehnique in general. It was really interesting to watch her try high gain guitar for the first time. Total mess. There are so many little details for noise control, muted/open notes, legato vs picked notes, edge picking for tone control, harmonics, etc. It's like a whole different instrument in some ways. She has an appreciation for that now, which made me appreciate the difference more.

[@OlemirCandido]

@@troygrady Oh yeah!!!! This a nice situation. Congratulations for your great technique and thanks for the great videos.

[@mcadder]

You are a phenomenal player. Better than all the guests you have.

[@troygrady]

Thanks but no way! I'm grateful to have intrerviewed a range of incredible players, and they all do stuff I don't / can't. That's how we learn what's out there.

[@sigiligus]

For whatever reason the couple of seconds of calling DBX "more of a side to side motion" made years of struggling with it click for me. I can't play it perfectly and reliably but just after watching this video I'm getting a way higher hit rate at way higher speeds. I dread to think what my guitar playing would be like without CTC, honestly.

[@troygrady]

Excellent! Just keep in mind this comment only really relates to wrist technique, and it is only true if you are pointing your arm the same direction I am. If so, the only way you can really move is in a semicircle toward the electronics. This is just how the joint works. If you have access to the Pickslanting Primer, the more complete demonstration is here! ( troygrady.com/primer/motion-tutorials/chapter-3-following-the-wrist-path/ )

[@donald-parker]

I learned all this stuff way before the internet and KZbin (like 50 years ago). But I didn't know I had learned it. Until I started to notice how much harder it was for me to ascend vs descend. And I forced myself to slow down but play the same way, and really become aware of the fact that my approach was completely different. It completely surprised me. But I began forcing myself to learn each style in each direction. It was hard and unnatural for a long time. But I'm glad I did it. These days, I find I spend most of my time working on particularly hard parts by just visualizing the motions without even holding a guitar in my hands. It was not an easy thing to learn, but it really helps get past the "muscle memory" boxing you into a corner where you think it is the only way to approach something.

[@scottnoricsson2023]

I use a combination of both... when on one string I use USX, when across two or more strings- I use DBX...

[@troygrady]

So when you do a tremolo on a single the motion stays diagonal? That's typical for USX, but not everyone can do this. Lots of players can imitate the path at a slower speed as a way of trying to learn it, but when they speed up they just become whatever their fast technique is, which could be a different, non-USX motion type.

[@scottnoricsson2023]

@troygrady yeah , qwertygitar from your forum taught me that 🤘👍

[@scottnoricsson2023]

@@troygrady PS thanks for cracking the motherfucking code , hell yeah brother 🤘🤘🤘❤️

[@MrCrowley17]

Hello Troy ! and if it were 3 notes per string, both movements are mixed USX and DBX ?

[@troygrady]

Sorry for the confusion! I think you are asking about the escape of individual notes. You don't need to worry about that. Instead, I try to think of the overall form. With wrist technique, you would use "DBX form" for 3nps alternate picking. When you do this, the wrist will change motions to create different escapes. If you film a scale in slow motion you will usually see a combination of DSX and DBX pickstrokes and maybe some two way pickslanting rotation. Here is what that looks like ( kzbin.infoJhac4mj9Pp0 ). It's very complicated! But these are smaller details that are mainly learned subconsciously. Instead just focus on maintaining the form. DBX form for DBX lines and USX form for USX lines.

[@leaveitorsinkit242]

Why do you think tremolo picking feels infinitely easier for me using the DSX technique compared to the USX technique?

[@GuitarGuy22221]

what about DSX and USX 🤔

[@troygrady]

Aha, sorry for the confusionh. DSX and DBX wrist motion can be done from the same form, so when you use DBX form you don't really have to worry about whether a line has all downstroke string changes (DSX) or a mix of down and up (DBX). USX on the other hand usually requires a downward pickslant to avoid the pick getting stuck and that's why the form change is needed. So the easiest way to get started is just to look at the overall form, since there are only two of those, and that's a much simpler thing to think about.

[@GuitarGuy22221]

@ ohhh okay!! That makes sense. USX has always eluded me. I’ve really tried messing with my pick angles and practice it out but no matter what I do, as long as there’s an even amount of notes on a strong starting with an upstroke is always easier for me. Often times resulting in dramatic differences in the BPM I’m able to achieve.

[@Atezian]

I seem to like the sound of usx more. Dbx sounds more forced and less flowing. Maybe that is your actual performance and another player I might prefer dbx sound, I am not sure. I think I was doing usx as I grew up playing guitar and ended up hurting my wrist and still to this day have really bad wrist issues as a result of it. Maybe i was doing bad usx. Present day I find dbx to be less stressful on my wrist

[@AmdusciasMansonAxewolf]

Are you still playing a Short Scale Guitar?

[@troygrady]

This is a Squier Mustang which is 24". I'm not super picky about scale length, I'm just a shorter person and to me a typical Strat feels like a boat, so I gravitate toward smaller guitars. I had a Washburn N4 back in the day, which was 25.5. I didn't love the trebly sound but the higher fret access was unbeatable.

[@AmdusciasMansonAxewolf]

I wish they had the Squier Mustang in Left hand Version.

[@ChrisKAloha]

USX is downwards pick slant?

[@troygrady]

Great question! USX refers to the escape, the pickslant refers to the appearance of the pick. USX players usually use a downward pickslant most of the time. But this depends on the technique. If you use a trailing edge pick grip like George Benson or Shawn Lane, the pick can look more vertical even though the picking motion can still be USX. Also, for DSX, the most common technique uses a vertical pick. Andy Wood is a grteat example of this type of player. His picking motion moves along a diagonal where downstrokes escape, however the pick does not appear slanted. This is why we created the terms for the escape (USX, DSX, DBX), because they don't always go together.

[@ChrisKAloha]

@@troygrady Ok. I am getting it. Bought the Primer. Working on it now. Thanks for the reply

[@troygrady]

Any time and thank you!

[@muttphrygian777]

I noticed your index finger is actually touching the string as you pick, interesting.

[@troygrady]

In which style, USX? That's possible. I'm resting on the upper strings here, but the same can be done with the fingers grazing the body as well. This is actually an excerpt from an instructional sequence and we talk about the grazing/curled fingers aspect in an earlier lesson. It's tough to cut these up for internet consumption so some things end up left for brevity.

[@muttphrygian777]

@@troygrady Yes, grazing is a good analogy, still sounds great.

[@georgedomse]

Your DBX has an audibly softer attack than your USX. For my taste USX sounds better but it looks like you are more comfortable with DBX.

[@googe2312]

Umm... Isn't a dbx a kind of audio processer. 😁

[@troygrady]

Ha yes just crank up some 160A and smooth out your picking!

[@Smittefar1]

But what about who adopted DSX at a very early age and never managed to move on. Are we forever doomed?

[@troygrady]

The most common form of DSX wrist motion uses the same form as DBX wrist motion. Andy Wood's technique is a good example of this. When you view Andy up close, you will see a mix of DSX and DBX pickstrokes, along with a little two-way pickslanting, depending on the line he's playing. Note that this is not the same as upward pickslanting. This common Andy-style form uses a vertical pick and lightly supinated arm setup. If this is you, then have you what you need to play both DSX and DBX lines. If you have more of a UWPS setup, then you want the Andy setup for DBX mode. You will still have access to DSX technique, but will gain DBX capability. USX lines however generally, need USX form. A slight oversimplification but this is probably the easiest way to get started.

[@Smittefar1]

@@troygrady love the input - thanks

[@mattwright466]

In my opinion, the problem with the DBX motion is that it unnecessarily prepares escape motions when it doesn't need to. The only possible way to execute DBX is by introducing flexion or through rotation. Many players will end up making the motion too big, overshooting the strings and therefore losing efficiency. If they're making the motion too big, oftentimes that flexion motion will begin to introduce tension on the top of the hand/wrist and lower endurance. The problem with basing yourself in USX/DSX all of the time is that you add as much of a disadvantage one way as you do the other way... So I personally don't think it's a great idea to "base" your technique with any kind of extreme pick slant. Lots of people talk about "how to hold the pick", but few talk about how the arm comes onto the guitar. This affects how the pick meets the strings dramatically, which is why the first half of my video "How to Hold a Guitar Pick" is basically just how to position the guitar and put the arm on the guitar. When the guitar and arm are positioned incorrectly, the wrist picks up the slack, contorting into any shape it needs to to "reach" the strings. But the pick reaching is *compensatory* and not by conscious effort. If all of the students have different arm approaches to the guitar, how can we expect any level of consistent outcomes from students? In my experience, I've found that you can just stick to the "trapped motion" all of the time and simple introduce the shallowest possible pass over the strings (USX / DSX) when you need to change strings. The escape motions should be executed AS NEEDED with wrist rotation. If you have to play a picked arpeggio... Well, this is the only case IMO any player should consciously utilize DBX. This approach will minimize flexion and reduce the tension I mentioned. Otherwise, there's no reason to base your technique DBX in my opinion.

[@elementsofphysicalreality]

Troy, I would love to be on your channel. I have a clean video of me alternate picking 17 - 18 notes per second. It would be cool to find out what I'm doing. I have plenty of video examples of killer picking demonstrations. Cheers!!

[@R17759]

Most people who think they are playing that fast actually aren’t. If you want to know for sure record a slow motion video of your picking hand playing on a single string with a metronome at that speed in the background and count the notes.

[@elementsofphysicalreality]

@ cool story bro

[@deathmagneto-soy]

Man, when did Jay Leno get so good at playing guitar?

[@andyhayes7828]

Music isn't technique

[@lessqqmorepewpew7843]

coke

[@abdakka0]

we're all here watching and overthinking this details to play fast and then comes a little asian boy who plays 1000 times better and more accurate than you ever can play Vai or Govan on your life. But you say it's okay because you still love playing music anyways!

[@troygrady]

I understand what you're saying, but I think this is a misperception created by the internet. I work with adult players every day of the week, many of whom have been playing for decades, and were never good at picking technique. You'd be surprised how quickly people can learn, and how good they can get in a short time, once you show them how techniques actually work. This is information we simply didn't have back in the day when I was learning. If you "just practice" as the old advice suggests, you're going to end up frustrated pretty quickly. And then you're going to feel bad every time you see a talented kid on the intertnet doing something you can't do. Of course you will probably NOT see videos of the thousands and thousands of kids (from asian cultures or any other culture) who did extreme amounts of practice and couldn't figure it out. That's the misperception. I guarantee you, cultural background and genetics has very little to do with it. It's all technique. If you don't really know how things work, then you are relying on pure trial and error, and the hit rate on that is just not very good. Sorry for the mini rant, but I want people to feel better about themselves, not worse. Good teaching can do that.

[@abdakka0]

@@troygrady yes , that's true, thanks for the response!

[@batmandeltaforce]

The least amount of movement wins:)

[@R17759]

It’s actually one of the many guitar playing myths that less movement=faster playing.

[@batmandeltaforce]

@@R17759 How long you been playing?

[@R17759]

@@batmandeltaforceNot sure how that is relevant. Troy has demonstrated many times that intentionally trying to use small pick strokes isn’t actually something that matters and is in fact the opposite of what you want to be doing when learning this stuff.

[@batmandeltaforce]

@@R17759 I disagree with Troy. Sorry, but Troy is not the end all on this:) I have been playing and gigging for 60 years... it's Physics:)