The Ultimate Weapon Tier List ALL RELIC in Space Marine 2

[@TrueVanguard]

What's one change you would make to my list? Join the PATREON group here: patreon.com/user?u=83518521&Link Once you join, link up your Discord and you'll be granted access to the private Space Marine rooms. Message me with any questions on Patreon.

[@phucletran2860]

Finally a fair tier list. I would bump the plasma incinerator to A tier above the melta rifle Edit: i would also rank the heavy bolt ahead of the auto bolt. Spec right, it is more accurate auto bolt that can sustain fire longer with shits hit

[@nostalgiac1013]

Personally I'd like to see included an evaluation between some gun subtypes, such as the bolt rifle with and w/o the grenade launcher, also marksman bolt carbine and bolt carbine etc.

[@TrueVanguard]

@@nostalgiac1013definitely. Lots of testing to do for sure.

[@sirsilco]

I walked around my kitchen loudly stating 'HOW DARE HE' when you put the nade launcher bolt rifle in A. I couldn't believe it. I find I never run out of nades because I don't just spam them. It's such a versatile weapon and above all else. Reliable. It's like the Ace Of Spades of SM2.

[@baddogkelevra1]

The grenade launcher bolt needs to be top S. Emperor’s Vengeance refunds all grenades no matter what on a majoris or higher kill every 30 seconds. It’s a disgusting amount of dps consistently, especially with auspex on bosses.

[@Viktor_Johansson]

Emperors vengence still refund the full 11 or so grenades you can get. Bolt Rife is by far the easy pick for top of S tier, you get 11 grenades back every 30 sec basically. The nerf is not even noticed.

[@uncleulysses2328]

Can confirm still busted as hell especially if you are good at melee. I don’t even end up using the primary fire mode because I have so many nades to keep blasting. Thing absolutely melts the hive tyrant in like 25 seconds lmao

[@Zephyr23311]

They also fixed ammo crates so you can get full grenades back from restocking at them.

[@goblinrat6119]

See that group of Warriors? *Hits Auspex and unloads a full round of fireworks. Loses absolutely no resources for it.* Because I sure as hell don't.

[@miirico5398]

Curious mate but does it refund ammo despite using rifle side of the weapon or do you need to be holding the grenade launcher side?

[@acekkkkkk]

@@miirico5398it refunds both parts simultanously

[@cabbageashthe1st594]

The heavy plasma incinerator with the right build can have 80 shots with each charged shot costing only 3 ammo. That’s ~26 majorious’ instantly put into execution state

[@TrueVanguard]

ppl sleeping so hard on it. also, the thing eats Carnifex's for breakfast.

[@Jedsa009]

Good news: a shot from HPI is so powerful. Bad news: those bot companions constantly walk into the line of fire.

[@carlbozeman7154]

​@@Jedsa009Only the bot companions? Almost Every single time I charge up a shot another player walks through me as I'm firing! 😡

[@Revenant6]

Bolt Carbine being on Sniper and Instigator being on Vanguard seems like a swap that was made last minute right before the game launched.

[@StevenPham217]

I’d bet money it’s for balance purposes for the Eternal War (PvP) game mode

[@maxw2210]

I think it just makes sense because the stalker and instigator are too similar

[@tokatulu]

Instigator is such a badass! I wish it was on sniper and tactical.

[@Revenant6]

@@tokatulu It’s fun as hell. I wasn’t trying to be super critical or anything, it was one of those moments where you stop and actually think about something and go “huh, that’s weird”.

[@tokatulu]

@@Revenant6 it’s my favorite bolt weapon

[@D01287410]

Two things I big disagree with in this video. 1. You showered the Thunder Hammer with praise for being able to set up gunstrikes while controlling and knocking back adds. Yet you never even mentioned that Power sword in power stance has arguably better crowd control at a far higher pace. The fencing relic version has 7 speed on power swing that instantly send minor enemies reeling from gun strikes. The speed stance also cuts down majors incredibly fast with speed stance. I do agree though that lack of a opening heavy strike does hurt it but it should easily be an A tier weapon. 2. You also showered praise to the Stalker for it's single target damage, which it has a ton of it. Though it's crowd control is not great and it's ammo economy suffers if you try to add clear to much with it, though you get ammo from emperors vengeance. Why do you act like jot being able to get grenades from ammo boxes makes the weapon drop to such a degree. Getting a major kill every 30 seconds isn't hard to do at all, and you have 11 grenades to work with, 14 with a heavy in the squad. No weapon on the tactical does more damage then the grenade launcher and unlike the stalker it doesn't need Scan to suddenly be able to nuke majors. The bolster with gl is still the best weapon in the game and I don't think it's even remotely close.

[@corvidcorax]

This dude is probably one of those guys that magdumps all his grenades in one go instead of using the first 3-4 grenades (less with auspex) to wipe out the biggest group of majoris first, before spacing out their grenade usage until EV proccs again. Not every grenade needs to be the finishing move. Even a single grenade is enough to stagger a horde and soften them up for the whole team to take advantage of. Conserving grenades until 30s passes becomes easy as soon as you learn this.

[@D01287410]

@@corvidcorax People tend to act like you also don't have a relic tier rifle that does pretty good damage with heads hots. Put a few people in red and pop some shots in their dome and they go down fast. Only time I use grenades to confirm kills is if there is an extreme and I don't have scan or a group and three grenades will kill multiple majors.

[@dredgen0268]

The plasma incinerator is glued to my Tactical. Man it slaps.

[@reiser_175]

@@dredgen0268 it’s so good against TS. Being able to 1tap the sorcerer’s shields without have to hit the crit is so nice

[@JasielMartini]

Same. Two charged shots into a group of majoris and boom, they're ready to execute. The gun is VERY nice to use and covers a lot of bases.

[@Folkmoot]

Im using it now, and is it best to charge a shot all the way or just like half or something?

[@Viktor_Johansson]

Its twice as good as Melta. I'd put the regular Melta in B tier personally.

[@Ketooey]

​@@FolkmootIirc, you gotta fully charge shots for extra damage, anything less than full does nothing.

[@NeonReaperMkVII]

They DIDN'T nerfed the Noobtube Bolt Rifle they even buffed it. They removed the delay after each shot, now you can spam it. Yeah you can't sit at the ammo crate anymore and spam but you get all nades back every 30 sec. you never run out and solo every boss or mini boss. The Bolt Rifle with the Grenade Launcher is not even S Tier it's God Tier, no other weapon in the game comes even close to it.

[@corvidcorax]

Anyone who thinks GL isn't top tier anymore is brainlessly magdumping all the grenades in one go. You get 8-10 grenades with the ammo reserve perks, enough to wipe out a group of majoris and weaken the rest for your team within 30s, with some grenades to spare.

[@FirstTourGuardsman]

Preach brother, it almost guaranteed has another nerf inbound. It is far over Melta and Plasma if you use it correctly, zero charge time and an ammo regen that just cycles into itself every 30 seconds, the only time you'll ever be running out of grenades is during Hive Tyrant or when your teammates take an execute. It has ease of use and absurd effectiveness while also being attached to the most busted class in this game, not having it in S tier is heresy. It is just the best weapon in the game right now and there are zero things it struggles against, you can even bomb the heldrake while it's wings are closed.

[@sirsilco]

FULLY AGREE.

[@4squaremiles]

properly specced out that thing can delete a carnifex. not "do big damage to it", but kill it immediately. it removes bosses as a thing.

[@Viktor_Johansson]

This! 100% not even a question mark. Grenade Launcher > Heavy Plasma. Grenade Launcher >>> All Meltas. It's not even close.

[@windwalker3081]

That power fist smash clip always kill’s me lol 😂 that minor really was looking like “bruh wtf you doing”

[@Mr_Big_Head]

Gunstrikes dmg is not independent of the gun. Heavy bolt pistol chunks far more dmg off the hive tyrant than the standard pistol

[@TDD_Drums]

Heavy bolt pistol when assault has the 50% bonus damage on Gun Strikes perk is actually op lol

[@scottpalermo5843]

Yeah I've heard him say that it doesn't matter in multiple videos...what's his source on that?

[@Mr_Big_Head]

@@scottpalermo5843 idk, I tried the standard bolt pistol to see if I could spam more headshots after a gunstrike to get faster executions and noticed it took on average 1-2 more gunstrikes to put a majoris into execution using just gunstrikes. The hive tyrant really shows it.

[@frenchmustard08]

Really love your videos. Super helpful and informative. Personally I don’t enjoy plasma pistol over either bolt pistol solely based on ammo consumption. I don’t have difficulty disrupting majoris enemies calling for reinforcement because 4-5 headshots on them with a bolt is about the same amount of time to charge one plasma shot. And having 140 rounds that can one shot minoris enemies vs a plasma pistol that cannot with fewer ammo reserves is frustrating to me

[@pitbullsensei179]

I have 120 rounds in my plasma pistol...

[@frenchmustard08]

@@pitbullsensei179 yes, but with bolt pistol you can have 140. And the bolt pistols both can one shot a minoris enemy in the heard for one round, plasma pistols cannot

[@RockerDanM]

All secondaries should be in B-Tier in my opinion. Bolt pistols being able to one-shot any Minoris with a headshot puts them with the Plasma pistol to me. It makes a bolt pistol better at add clear than the plasma especially with proper aiming and ammo economy of the Plasma. Plasma is great for Majoris and up if you want some damage or to interrupt a Reinforcement from a Majoris, but if I am going to pick a weapon to kill a Majoris or up I am picking my primary, barring being a Bulwark, every time I would prefer my Primary.

[@Siisjoonperkele]

Yeah i think so too. Plus the basic Bolt pistol can be equipped by most of the classes, making it a really nice weapon to have upgraded when leveling up. I still use the Relic tier one with almost all classes that are able to use it.

[@bloodmoonangel8925]

Personally, I would rather melee than use the basic bolt pistol. The plasma pistol is insane tho, specially on Heavy

[@DCTriv]

Heavy stomp not represented, so sad /s

[@mistah3687]

I’m personally of the opinion that the power sword *can* be the best melee weapon in the game if you use it right, the issue is just that there’s a learning curve you need to get around.

[@gameplayer117]

In my opinion, I'd swap the tiers for Power Sword and Thunder Hammer. To me the Power Sword's speed allows for you to get in more combos where as the Thunder Hammer's speed only allows you to have maybe 2 or 3 hits at max until the Majoris hits back and you have to either Parry or dodge it. I mean in the end it's all about preference. You have a good day, brother

[@TheGreatMilksteak]

Subscribed back in my destiny days but i dropped that game years ago...got me back in with the space marine content! Love seeing an experienced players breakdown a weapon tier list. awesome video

[@tooHecticX]

This is the most on point and bullseye tier list out there. Totally agree to every single thing You said...plus I love you say which weapons are great fun and worth being used despite not being best in slot :) cheers Brother!

[@aziouss2863]

The way you act out the events is super fun to watch XD It is like you are there. Reminds me of the ppl that move controllers and lean left and right in racing games!

[@jacobpugh9531]

Assault needs the plasma pistol and power sword.

[@RubinKlein25]

I would definitely use that, the parry on Bulwark still doesnt feel natural to me but I would love to use the power sword more

[@swamp-puppy14]

This. Having played Dawn of War before and being able to upgrade assault squads to have power swords and plasma pistols makes it extra sad not seeing it in this game.

[@jacobpugh9531]

@@swamp-puppy14 It's a upgrade for the current primaris assault marines as well. I think blood angels even had a meltagun upgrade in 4-5th edition. It would be nice to have them as options. In all honesty I would like inferno pistol, poweraxe, lightning claw/s. Though I'm not sure if there's anything like primaris sternguard and vanguard vets anymore.

[@Arntor-kf9hi]

I play vanguard and pair the melta with the combat knife. It gives me wicked add clearing and insane ST damage for the majors. Grapnel in, blast with melta, then knife the majors for a quick clean up.

[@_Shoo]

I love the knife execution, too

[@wellhiyadude1]

Especially because the Vanguard gets 50% bigger perfect parry window it lets you use the balanced knife which does MASSIVE single target damage while still having a big window for the perfect parries. I think the knife is B tier on other classes but on Vanguard its A or S tier for sure

[@rileyyoungerman5471]

It’s been a joy watching you create content for this game! Thank you for all the tips!

[@DentonDekker]

Spot on, even as a bulwark main I don’t disagree there is a learning curve to the Power sword. Would I choose a chain sword over PS as a bulwark.. no not a chance. Bulwark class is about being the center of attention for your team to take out high value targets. The PS allows more fluid control while being completely surrounded by enemies. The CS isn’t meant to be used that way. It’s very ridged and takes way too many strikes to stomp. Where the power sword after one strike can charge for a swirling strike to create a pocket to move or escape. I find it better the chain sword but its apples and oranges there meant for different jobs.

[@alexanderkentopp3070]

I will say there is tech to get to the stomp early - if you have the "charge by holding" perk towards the end you can use it to shortcut the first attack by releasing just before the animation begins, allowing you to stomp after 2 instead of 3 attacks

[@Albus_Rex]

So many weapons to try on tactical, just sucks having to level them all individually. Too bad there wasn't more weapon carry over between classes. Also, chainsword is the goat... But I have to use the big ol' knoife on Vanguard. Doesn't feel right otherwise. Enjoyed the video, feller.

[@Tree.lancer]

Nah, powersword, specially the relic fencing variant should be A tier at least if not S. It plays a bit different than the chainsword, and takes more knowledge to use, but its way more adaptable and does more damage imo, I often do almost much or and sometimes even more damage than Assaults with hammers on Ruthless, while also having more survivability. to clear hordes on chainsword you need to go light, light light heavy to do the same with PS you just do a light and the power whirl, which you cannot be knocked out of with he perk, or you can just spam power mode slashes and gun strikes for near perfect sustain in the middle of a horde. Chainsword is good when you want to turn off the brain a bit and stomp your way to victory. But Powersword is best when you're focused and "locked in" changing stances to adapt to the current situation. Btw there is more tech you've missed about changing stances, like during a shield bash.

[@wendigopsychosis3400]

I dont think id change anything about this tierlist its so good

[@TrueVanguard]

Oh wow thanks so much, glad we see things so similarly

[@hknova683]

The heavy bolted can output quite a bit more damage than the multi melta from my experience. I usually end up with between 27-32k range damage on inferno with the melta but way more often I’ll get up to 35-37k with the heavy bolter. Harder to use, more rewarding in my opinion

[@reiser_175]

I still think the Meltas are s tier. The grenade launch bolt rifle feels so broken imo.

[@Strelitzia98]

Even tho I agree meltas should be S tier I can accept A tier

[@aziouss2863]

The problem with the melta is that it is one of the few S tier weapons that is not fun to play with... It is just to easy to use. It has to be adjusted in a way it can still be fun useful without making worse the annoying drawbacks or range and long reload time. The one idea i have that can maybe be applicable... Is making it more lore accurate in it's indented role. An armour destroyer. The beam can be made more narrow. Loses potency when hitting minoris then majoris meaning you have to line up 2+ majoris ennemies while avoiding the little guys to get the most out of it. Remove the stagger after the first big target hit. Maybe then it will have a good role and not remove 80% of the challenge of the game. The vanguard can then rely more on mele or a buffed up carbine if they wanna do hoard clear.

[@Strelitzia98]

@@aziouss2863 I’m not sure about lore wise so I do apologise I’m 40/60 on lore lol but I think of it as a fire shotgun and people always have issues with “shotgun type” weapons they ain’t fun to play with but it cleans minoris enemies better then anything else (excluding the bolt rife GL which needs the ammo boxes or weapon drop and others ect…. And it’s not just the melta that removes the fun from the game just because it’s good at what it does some people don’t want a power fantasy game which if we are going “lore” wise then the game would be a whole different ball game

[@Alasthors]

I agree with you, though it only held his rank by the fact that it's the only weapon that can deal quickly with horde, allowing you to focus on majoris+ level target. But outside of that, that not an ammo efficient weapon against single target, which isn't the definition of a "do it all" S-tier weapon.

[@Strelitzia98]

@@Alasthors well ammo efficient you kill a majoris refills your mag 30sec cool down on tactical but that also depends on what relic weapon you are running with vanguard you don’t have that perk I can run with melta rifle on ruthless pretty decent except for bosses cause it’s meh against bosses where other weapons shine a lot better I only use melta rifle mainly for minoris and majoris clearing

[@Ozymandias_SofaBear]

Thank you for this list. I don't choose the most powerful weapon or class. I choose the one I love. Big Thor hammer? A tier? Sure. But still...baaam!

[@TrueVanguard]

Yes, that’s the right way to game honestly.

[@kartanou]

You talked about the bolt carbine in SMG style but not in the marksman style. Where would you put it? I'm running my sniper with it and it's a lot of fun, really near to the stalker in my opinion.

[@davidhache1267]

Good list my man. I have been wondering about your take on PVP in this game? I’ve played three rounds total and it is interesting - shock/stun/flash bang grenade is a lot over powered imo

[@Apostasy_Plague]

gigasweat here. anyone who doesnt place heavy bolter over the other two heavy primaries hasnt tried the ACCURACY VARIANT with near 100% headshots in short bursts. its not even close to the multimelta or the heavy plasma incinerator. this weapon is in a class of its own in the hands of a skilled player; the only weapon id place in double S tier. if you know how to effectively use a warthog turret at a distance on the old halo games, you already know the timing and spool mechanics. go get headshots. with practice manipulating the spooling to maintain the fire rate and 90%+ headshot accuracy, you should consistently see over 20,000 ranged damage on ruthless. never have to reload, never overheat, never have to get closer to deal excellent damage, and most importantly, never run out of ammo. i can barely feel the difference between normal difficulty and ruthless with this weapon. not even an unlimited grenade launcher feels so empowering. this weapon is my go-to when the boys needs a quick carry through ruthless with their white weapons.

[@devoid820]

From my experience, seeing as I'm relic on all weapons as well, a few corrections. The occulus carbine: B tier. Use it the same was as you would the bolt carbine. Barrel stuff majors after you grapple in. And it clears out minors with gleeful abandon until you go into melee. 20% bonus on terminus is way better than you give it credit for. Heavy bolt rifle: bottom of B tier. It's basically the exact same thing as the heavy bolter for the heavy, just it doesn't overheat, and it doesn't have nearly as bad of spread. To offset that it hits slightly less hard and has a painfully long reload. So just never reload, always execute a major when your mag gets low and start firing again. There are better options for the tactical but it's not a bad weapon. Sniper bolt rifle: top of C tier. You'll never be able to get over the ammo capacity issue all the way to the end. You would be better off with a higher rate of fire or higher damage version than the high capacity version. It's fine, but I'd rather take anything else in the sniper kit. Marksman bolt carbine: top of B tier. I like this weapon alot. It's a neutered stalker bolt rifle with higher capacity. Thinking of it that way you can snipe with it and just as easily tap the trigger and get a almost automatic like rate of fire, combined with the better penetration it's a solid gun Bolt carbine: F tier. I don't like it, It dumps mags into majors heads and doesn't put them in execute or even stagger a reinforce call. I found this weapon to be worthless. Other than that I agree with the rest. I think you're a little harsh on the Powefist. You just have to learn that you have to charge every hit to make it work. But unless you're talking style points I'd take anything else on an assault or bulwark.

[@jmo7185]

For the power fist, feel like if they simplify or abbreviate the combos it can be great. Hope they do something because it’s supposed to be great

[@dvpeomar]

Great breakdown TV. 🔥

[@CaptainTacoSauce00]

22:06 i think Plasma Pistol would be a nice addition to assault while keeping the class's identity of it's kit

[@Renoxkun]

Heavy bolt rifle has 45 rounds base while auto has 35

[@FoxtrotMikeLimaXD]

Heavy Plasma - S Tier, thank god. Everyone hates on it. The high RoF variant can spam AoE groups of minoris in one shot. The charge obliterates majoris. Idk why so many people hate on it and say the lob is bad. Also - majoris, a charged puts them in execute state. One light shot pops them.

[@AFKlayy]

I find this to be the case for chaos space Marines, but for tyranids I never one shot any of them. What am I doing wrong? And actually the melee variant of the tyranids take three fully charged shots from my relic heavy plasma incinerator.

[@speedyazi5029]

Just because I’m a lore Simp, I love the Bolt Carbine Marksman for Tactical. It has the accuracy and semi-auto you’d expect from lore accurate average Bolt Rifles and does enough damage per magazine compared to the Stalker which I tend to run out of ammo for. Idk, it just feels really nice. Will want to try the Bolt Carbine SMG build you have for Sniper but my Sniper is really poop level.

[@ArthurEverling]

I really wish boltguns got a small damage buff across the board, mostly the automatic types. Having fully leveled and damage perks on most of them they just don’t hit hard enough. I’ve dumped over half a magazine into Majoris enemies sometimes before they get incaped. Just a little bit more damage, please.

[@Viktor_Johansson]

Yes!

[@zerzo7223]

I wish really hard for more ennemies with less health, it is supposed to be an horde game. I want mass ennemy every 10 meter, and loosing would happen when you can't manage the horde clear before the next ammo box. Would be less frustrating because our weapon would kill things faster, would add real ammo management, and damn would it be satisfying.

[@Brian-ch6hg]

Good info TV. Thanks for the discussion!

[@lancehaderlie9587]

I think what they need to do with the all the primaries except the Heavy's is tweak numbers to give each its own identity/purpose. Because right now most of the bolter weapons are just better/worse versions of the same weapon (except the nade launcher one obviously), all the sniper weapons are just slightly faster/slower versions of the same gun, the Power fist just plays like a much worse hammer, and the sidearms need more variety. Maybe the devs will read this, I dunno. I hope they're looking around for feedback on the content that's being made for the game. My suggestions would be something like this list (any features/weapons not mentioned should be left as is) -- Heavy Bolt rifle: slower fire rate, higher stability, slow reload, higher base damage, lower headshot multiplier (also make it sound chunkier) -- Auto bolt rifle: higher fire rate, faster reload, lower stability, higher mag size, higher base damage, lower headshot multiplier -- Bolt Carbine: super high damage when close to enemies, large damage fall-off at distance, higher base damage, lower headshot multiplier -- Bolt Sniper: Increase headshot multiplier A LOT, add a high level weapon perk where 2 headshot kills in a row refunds 1 ammo, lower enemy piercing, slightly larger ammo pool(2-4 more), decrease recoil, slower reload, a perk-maxed headshot from invis with this gun should 1-shot a Majoris enemy from 100->dead on ruthless -- Las Fusil: remove headshot multiplier, give infinite piercing, make default ammo capacity 14, but leave the "upgraded" capacity version at 20 max -- Stalker Bolt Rifle: Should 1-shot all minoris enemies with a headshot at base relic level(no perks/class perks), reduce recoil, slightly increase fire rate, improve reload speed -- Instigator Bolt Carbine: Increase base damage, have large damage fall-off at high range, but increase base damage when in close/medium range, faster reload, slightly larger mag size, faster fire-rate -- Plasma Incinerator: Add self damage (not a ton, but some) when shooting a charged shot near yourself, decrease base ammo capacity -- Power Fist: Add a damage bonus to Majoris and higher level enemies, decrease charge time for heavy charged attacks, increase base speed of the normal combo, increase AOE for the charged attacks. A fully charged, relic-tier, perk-maxed heavy attack should vaporize a full health Majoris enemy on Ruthless -- Thunder Hammer: Increase base cleave value to 4-5, move all upgraded versions' numbers accordingly, decrease required charge time on the base charged heavy slam, give the hammer a perk to restore an armor segment if you kill 10 enemies without stopping your combo within 5-8 seconds -- Remove Occulus Bolt Carbine, allow Vanguard to use Auto Bolt Rifle instead -- Add Plasma Incinerator to Vanguard primaries (with the self damage added above I feel like this is a fun addition) -- Add Instigator bolt carbine to Sniper primaries -- All the Heavy's weapons are basically perfect as they are I think, maybe a small damage increase on the lower levels of the Heavy Bolter -- Allow Heavy and Bulwark to use the heavy bolt pistol -- Add Lightning Claws as a melee option for Sniper, Assault, Bulwark, and Vanguard -- Allow Tactical to use the plasma pistol as a secondary -- Allow Tactical to use the Combat Knife as a melee weapon -- Allow Sniper to use the heavy bolt pistol as a secondary

[@gundricsgamesandhistory.9450]

The occulus in lore has a thermal type scope, should have some weak point damage buff or stealth reveal mechanic. Also Assault should get the plasma pistol, as it often does in lore, especially veterans and sergeants.

[@daveadams6489]

Really appreciate the video sir!

[@christopherjohnson2171]

I agree with Melta in A tier. The Tactical has 2 better weapons---the Plasma Incinerator and Grenade launcher. Insane how many good options Tactical has, but that's the name of the class.

[@RyantheGumby]

Fabulous vid thanks

[@thehusband3254]

I would say the bolt sniper jas significant ammo problems while you lvl it up but once you hit relic no issues.

[@Xan1333.]

not having multi melta in s tier is criminal, the only down side with the melta weapons would be range. I never am in a situation where range is an issue. Also the fact that it stun locks majors. They should've been in s tier without a doubt. Also the bolt rifle not being in s tier is equally mindboggling.

[@maxw2210]

Melta is an S tier I don't care, Multi melta A tier makes sense but saying that single Target damage somehow is a hindrance is absolutely insane Sure it's primary purpose is mob clearing, don't you clear a mob of all the minors you're able to deal with the majors literally with your combat knife or a chain sword if you're playing tactical It's much easier to focus on parrying majors when you cleared out all the minors surrounding them before

[@kylemutz6180]

I've been singing the Heavy Plasma Incinerators praise and no one believes me! There isn't a single enemy I feel threatened by while holding a HPI, everything turns to mist, and 3 ammo for a charged ball is stupid. Thing can rip apart anything. The ONLY negative thing about the HPI, is that I love to pair it with the Plasma pistol for disrupting reinforcement calls really quickly, and for some reason the 2 Zoanthropes paired together are immune to plasma... IDK if its a bug or intended but most times I have 2 plasma weapons and literally cant damage them unless I have Krak nades.

[@Thenlar]

You gotta make sure you're not hitting the one that has the shield. When there's 2 Z's one will always be shielding the other and making it immune to damage. Look for the green bubble, and hit the other one.

[@kylemutz6180]

@@Thenlar Im fully aware of the shields, I’ve shot the unshielded one with multiple different plasma weapons and it always gives me the shield hit marker.

[@menaceiwill1]

​@kylemutz6ive been killing them with the heavy plasma with like 2 or 3 shoys max. So thats weird 180

[@TheSilentOne50]

The bolt pistol is A tier minimum. Max accuracy relic bolt pistol just destroys everything with headshots.

[@skuirrelTV]

Great list!

[@triplecs7331]

You don’t have to switch. I use it constantly. You get a finisher or a kill on major is it’s refills your grandes.

[@Apostasy_Plague]

can we just consider for a moment why the class with the jet pack is the worst class to play as when fighting airborne enemies? would be nice to see saber address this. they could possibly add an invisible terrain platform within zoanthropes for example to make jump packing up near them and hitting them with your melee dive possible. a little bit goes a long way when you have near nothing to begin with.

[@dagewastaken7236]

The Melta rifle at A tier is correct, but the Multi-Melta is an S tier. No reload, deals a crap ton of damage and has more range. You can't detach the Multi from the Heavy since it's the only class that can use it.

[@user-px7pe7ei6k]

TACTICAL tier weapon breakdown

[@BSHoce]

Bolt carbine needs to be secondary weapon for phobos armor users (vanguard and sniper). lighter build so more firepower otherwise make carbine like melta but for single dmg, low range fast fire rate and high dmg. Also heavy bolt pistol for heavy, tactical, bulvarg. Power fist needs charge that can be charged on the move and sprint. Auto boltgun needs more firerate but faster reload and heavy autobolt more mag size.

[@FellixNoAmatsu]

They really shouldn't have called Sniper "Sniper" because everyone will take that at face value. They should have called it something like "Specialist" or "Espionage" so that people wouldn't be blindsided by the idea of people playing the class close-range.

[@Agayek]

Man, I feel like there's some kind of disconnect going on with the Power Fist. Cuz while you're right that the shockwave perk attack is completely useless, I've consistently found it to do excellent damage in a wide area with lots of reaching shockwaves that stagger and damage everything nearby. I have no idea what I'm doing differently from you, but I've found it to be easily the best weapon on bulwark, and right up next to the thammer on assault, and it always baffles me whenever I see you poopooing it in your videos.

[@ValcryeTheSecond]

After getting a lot of stuff to relic, I can definitely agree melta is not S tier. It’s extremely powerful, but equally limiting, especially on heavy. It’s S tier on vanguard since the other primaries are garbage and you need to keep close quarters, but that’s about it. Heavy and tactical are just way more versatile when not using melta

[@luckylooster]

Anyone else fell in love with the multimelta when first using it and now hate it now as I love playing close quarters melee no matter my class and having someone near by using it makes it basically blinding sometimes and unable to see some in coming attacks. 🤔

[@zerzo7223]

and worst of all stunlonck/kill anything you want to melee/parry/dodge. not gonna lie when i play assault i just leave when i see a melta, ruins the fun for me

[@luckylooster]

@zerzo7223 yeah literally like using the small stuff to constantly get back armour and not lose health in close quarters then the melta deletes everything around you.

[@Crusher888]

Bolters and melee need a buff

[@aziouss2863]

Half of the bolters nd half of the mele weapons. Alot of them are A to S tier.

[@JasielMartini]

@@aziouss2863 Real melee damage being dependent on parries and gun strikes makes all melee C tier imo. They're serviceable, but the game isnt designed for you to fight, only react and parry. I can hit a Major 10-15 times before they're ready to execute, VS 2 parries and gun strikes and they're ready to execute. Melee weapons need a damage buff imo. UNLESS that's specifically what the devs want melee to be, then hey, it is what it is.

[@Enos666]

I feel like the auto bolt rifle would be a solid pick if it wasn't solely a tactical weapon where the heavy bolt and bolt rifle with GL exist. I'd be more than happy to use it with vanguard if it was available, since the occulus is trash and I personally don't gel with the instigator.

[@menaceiwill1]

The grenade launcher is the best weapon in the game, you can get all your grenades back every 30 seconds just by killing a major or above. You don't have too finish them. And ammo crates don't give grenades back, it is hands the strongest weapon.

[@nateklempner561]

... I sat and listened to Vanguard talking about how bad the Powerfist is, and I couldn't tell if he knew that all the weapon's combos are linked together based on how many attacks you do, regardless of whether they were charged attacks or not. So, as an example, the ideal damage string to get to the 4th heavy hit combo would have you do 4 heavy attacks 1 after another. You don't have to do 3 light attacks and then the heavy to get that specific heavy attack move. It's a weapon that's most effective doing nothing but running attacks and heavy attacks. I only really do light attacks to deal with minoris enemies swarming me to be honest, and even then I'll probably just start parrying the little guys to get armor back anyways. Powerfist did not deserve the disrespect of being placed in D Tier. C Tier at worst, right there with the Combat Knife is what I say.

[@TrueVanguard]

Right my biggest problem with that like I said is that it takes too long. Majors teleport away while I’m trying to do the combo. Or they do an unblockable attack.

[@Mr_Big_Head]

Carbine on sniper can work, it is not effective. The slower firing version is good if you wanna farm headshots to keep team ults up but that’s where the effectiveness ends.

[@ribbz22]

I definitely think the power sword is better than the hammer. The hammer is OK, but I think the combos are actually very lacking and it typically just makes sense to do the uncharged heavy attack. Agree with power fist I def think it needs another pass.

[@menaceiwill1]

I think there very different to compare, but the hammer has insane damage now, I've hit over 30k damage with it. And the sword is also great at clearing hordes. But major's I'm doing like ten or more attacks just to kill one major

[@michielschouten]

The hype for the heavy bolter and heavy bolt rifle is so high. The weapons just dont do enough, everytime im in a team with an heavy or tactical with those weapons they die EVERY time, take all the stimms. 9 out of 10 players cant play with these weapons and/or are also bad in parry... when i play with it im using my melee and pistol more, because it kills so much faster.

[@helamananderson3992]

Now that you’ve done literally everything, do you plan to still play? Do you think it’s worth it with no carrot to chase?

[@TrueVanguard]

yeah the game is still super fun, i enjoy now coming up with killer builds for solo play

[@auseryt]

You do not need to make a single light attach to her all heavy attack combos with the power first.

[@kcramthun6]

Defense wins championships, TV! Bulwark and Power Sword in B? It's the best class and weapon to solo with bots in Ruthless, I never go down.

[@TrueVanguard]

Oh I really enjoy Bulwark for sure! It’s just that I can solo Ruthless and not go down with other builds and do it in half the time. Bulwark is steadfast, but it’s also slow.

[@kcramthun6]

@@TrueVanguard Word, it's definitely a class that takes patience. The Carnifax takes about 80,000 gun strikes and 20 minutes lol. But I never feel overwhelmed by anything the game throws at me. Also, watched you all through my time with D2, glad I found you on this game too.

[@IL4NCER]

​@@TrueVanguardPowersword def A tier above th

[@ThePieareround]

There's way too much trying to make it work with most of the bolt weapons and not enough getting work done. I'm taking a break until the new op comes out, but I'm thinking I may mainline Heavy when it does. Easily my least leveled class aside from Tactical and I feel like I haven't given the heavy incinerator enough gameplay time.

[@nakulrao8271]

as an assault main, I'm contractually obliged to say "heresy" to any opinion that says assault should have a primary that's NOT a melee weapon.

[@25ironhand]

Chain sword in S tier ? Man usually those tier list are just : put in S tier whatever is godly and do random with the rest. Seems S tier is treated like anything else. Randomly

[@Alasthors]

Only strong disagreement would be the various SMG, that are all kind of bad. You can make them work, but it's not like all the alternative were better. Outside of that, Power Sword feel really good. The power stance does it all, with correct reach on the normal attack and the spin-jump-slam attack does it all. Deserve a better place. Also regular Plasma Incinerator. This can't be next to the Plasma Pistol that have a weay worst ammo economy and isn't exactly as good all around.

[@manhoenguy6104]

I see quite a lot of hate to this tierlist in the comments but am i weird for agreeing with this tierlist more than any other i've seen so far? but tbh without target dummies and actual figures all these tierlists are just downright how do they feel to you rather than is x better than y so go figure

[@TrueVanguard]

i don't have too many people saying, "oh interesting, i disagree." I have a lot more "you're such a stupid idiot who has never played the game and i hate your face"

[@manhoenguy6104]

@@TrueVanguard face cam mistake? :P

[@xScruffyDaSasquatchx]

Only disagreement is auto bolt rifle not being a full tier below the heavy bolt rifle

[@TrueVanguard]

And that’s totally fair. Sounds like other than that we’re pretty much on the same page.

[@hirmetrium1]

Marksman bolt carbine appears to be missing here. I do disagree with some of these takes; bolt pistol should be higher for headshotting minoris, bolt rifle with grenade launcher is easy S tier and C/D without grenades, and many of the bolters need to drop down as they need too many shots to kill (but i agree with the take on stalker, great option but you lose grenade launcher).

[@simounobrien9096]

Power Fist on D Tier Seriously? I put it on S. I now wonder, what kind of game are you playing or what tactics your using with the Power Fist? Because I never actually had any trouble on Ruthless difficulty while using the Fist. The Damage Output is incredible, a point you seem to overlook, it does more damage than both the Power Sword and Thunder Hammer. Boom....... Shots fired there

[@hemi-pwer2639]

You watered down the power sword over an un-just opinion to place it in B teir. The power sword has a higher output of damage compared to the chainsword as well

[@whitehat765]

sips on coffee...

[@DeltDelt-j6n]

I dont think you guys know how bulwark work. The only thing that can realy put you in a bad position is two zoanthropes. Otherwise they can litteraly throw 500 hormagants and 50 warrios at the same time and you can kill every single one of them without taking damages to your health. Its the strongest class in the game in solo. And you dont need anyone else.

[@ManuR-l4m]

I think the bolt pistol should be B tier. Sure, it doesnt have oomph but it has lots of ammo you can use on trash enemies with quite good precision to preserve your valuable main ammo. And it can give some amazing synergy with the insta reloading perk which is amazing if you use slow reloaders like Meltas. For the classes which have to equip it its a neat little joker. And pistols shouldnt be compared to mains straight up anyways.Thats why id put the plasam pistol into A tier. Bolt rifle up into S just because of the grenade launcher. Its still brutal. Hammer is lower for me. Its so goddamn slow that you will eat many hits while you re attacking and there is nothing you can do about it. And bolt carbine is way to niche to be somewhere above D. Without the cloak this gun is just awful. Anyways. Just an opinion. Love your content!

[@markmorrison9089]

Good video TV

[@johnlowkey359]

...He beat the game!

[@DzinkyDzink]

What about the DMR version of Bolt Carbine?

[@fromoz9294]

knife is actually good u can rupt red attacks with the charge attack.

[@XStreet1985]

I prefer lore accurate knife vanguard. I wish they buffed speed to 5+ for fencing knife.

[@jasoncopeland-n3g]

Yeah he is incorrect about gun shot damage. It does matter what you have in hand the strongest single target is heavy bolt and if you didn't notice any target next to the victim of a gunshot from plasma pistol will get hit/executed as well if it's a gaunt. Also how siege breaker is not S tier for melee weapon is strange to me. It 2 shots every extrmemis and below with 1 partial charged heavy and a gunshot from heavy bolt. Try it and the aoe clear is silly too!

[@aJackAsh]

did he just say the heavy bolt rifle and the auto bolt rifle have the same mag size?? heavy bolt rifle standard has 45 auto bolt rifle standard has 35 it needs to be relic tier with the mag size increase to have the same mag size as the standard starter heavy bolt rifle and even though it doesn't show it on the stats the auto bolt rifle has way WAAAYY worse accuracy

[@Hi-NuAetherling]

Powersword is S tier. It can do so much for the bulwark.

[@kumarsalib722]

How is it better?

[@stephenhuntingford8816]

Power sword is just pound for pound better than chainsword in every aspect. Better add control, better major stun, better for movement and more damage.

[@Thanatov]

Still feel meltas are highly overrated. Now that everyone seems to be pretty competent at melee combat, small add clear at close range with a melta seems redundant. Last saving grace of the melta is it can stun majoris, but again anyone competent at melee can do the same with heavy combos. Meltas still feel big because they'll do 15k+ damage with 700 kills. Meanwhile a tactical or sniper is doing 15k+ with half the kills because they damage down the big threats. Melta is still good, but it's easily not an S tier weapon by any standard now that people are better at the game.

[@Dante130666]

Its so wierd that Power fist and Meltas are bad single target weapons. They are used against vihecles and monsters. Also Its heretical that chainsword is better than any power weapons. P.S. I hope developers will add chain/power axe, stormbolters and flamethrowers ( normal and heavy)

[@Elthenar]

I can't take this list seriously when you botch the bolt rifle with grenade so badly. It is still STier. The Emperors Vengeancd ammo economy works just fine with it. The weapon you had to switch to reload was the plasma incinerator. It refilled it completely but you had to have another weapon equipped when the majoris died.

[@TheHazmate]

FIST BROS! HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN TO US!?!?

[@ech0e404]

The heavy boltor (❤️my beloved❤️) didn’t only do my taxes and helped save my marriage, but it also melts the neurothropes before they start bullying everyone

[@dylanhamilton2977]

Power fist is A-B tier. Power sword is terrible, but that is just my opinion

[@Strelitzia98]

Idk man this tier list is very and I mean very debatable I can slightly agree with the meltas but yeahhh… idk

[@theguycisterninoyelledat6272]

A lot of your list show you don't understand some weapons. power sword is by far the best melee weapon. Power stance destroys all minoris enemies and duel stance or whatever its called shreds Majoris and Extremis level enemies. Secondly, the bolt rifle grenade launcher with emperors vengeance still refills ammo. The Combat Knife with the upgrade that lets you do the fire shoulder bash is overpowered. Heavy bolter is the best crowd control bolter other than the bolt rifle with grenade launcher because its high damage and high magazine.

[@TrueVanguard]

i mean i definitely understand the weapons, i'm the one that published the whole damage number graphs for the weapons in this game. i literally did all the science, the loading screens etc. and no, power sword is definitely not the best melee weapon in the game. requires the same number of hits to kill a minoris as a chainsword, the heavy attack is power rake which doesn't do good aoe or cleave when compared to the chainsword and hammer which both have a full 360 degree damage radius and knockback. and the single target damage of the light stance isn't bad, but most majoris melee fights come down to gunstrike damage anyway because they're the most optimal way of dealing damage.

[@theguycisterninoyelledat6272]

@@TrueVanguard Stats vs practicality, Whirlwind on the power sword is the best crowd control other than the stomp. Heavy attack on the power sword are only really used on Majoris enemies to break guards. other than the stomp the chainsword lacks crowd control which you need to do a 3 hit combo to get too. The power sword is first attack crowd control and the power sword has a range effect as well. Only time to use the power sword heavy attack while in power stance is if minoris enemies are clumped up after you have been attacking them. Publishing numbers for weapons means nothing, thats like publishing the stats for a professional athlete it doesn't mean you understand his game only his stats. If we go by stats all the meltas and the bolt sniper.

[@DJordan115]

So the chain sword is S tier because of it's ease of use and the fact it's good at all enemies. Then your other two S tier weapons are the hardest to use and better at single target damage?? Then you brag on how easy the melta is to use, and how effective it is at crowd control, but it gets just A tier?? I know this is just opinions, but with the amount of mobs you constantly get thrown at you in this game, the melta is the best weapon in the game. If I've got time to charge up a plasma shot and aim it correctly, I know it'll do more damage, but the nature of this game means you're often not going to get that time. I'll take either melta every day of the week. And to me, the chainsword just seems to basic, good at everything but great at nothing...🤷🏻‍♂️

[@ep1902]

21:38 *my battle brothers and I and the mess hall*

[@MillerTheOriginal]

Have they added new 'content' yet? Can't realistically be playing this game with the original content still

[@MaximumNewbage]

You seem to be biased against melta because, as you've stated in numerous other videos, you find melta gameplay boring. There is a difference between THEORETICAL Max single target DPS, and EFFECTIVE single target DPS. And the melta's EFFECTIVE single target damage matches the S tier competitors due to how combat works (explained by below). Melta is S. And its certainly better than stalker because melta is better a single damage (ie mitigating its "weakness") than stalker is at crowd clearing. As in, if you are 1 v 1 vs a single target high threat enemy, and they are taking shots and swings at you, what is your effective eps? Can you weave in bursts of primary weapon damage between parties, dodges, and your own slashes? Because melta is a pure burst weapon that comes out instantly with no aim needed, it operates at near its max potential DPS even when you are weaving in guns trikes, perfect parties, dodges etc. Not as much for other weapons. While it's not the best at single target, you are just wrong when you say it's single target damage is lacking, because you are failing to account for how much dodging and blocking slows down the effective DPS of the actual single target DPS weapons.

[@TrueVanguard]

I'm not talking about theoretical my man. The Melta Rifle does 29 dmg to melee majors and 58 to ranged majors. That's definitely respectable. But the Stalker on the Tactical also does 58 to ranged majors but does MORE to melee majors with 39 dmg. Not only that, it has more ammo and can be fired more rapidly and from a safer distance so you can take down big snipers and venom cannons from the other side of the battlefield without having to go hunt them down. Not to mention the Multi Melta is tuned for crowd control, not single target damage. In fact it only does 56 dmg to ranged majors while the Heavy Plasma does 269. Yes, that's not a typo. Even uncharged Heavy Plasma shots do more at 60 dmg. So to reiterate, I'm not biased. I just know the math isn't adding up in favor of the Melta.