WHY YOUR WEAPON SUCKS (Truth About Power Stat) for Space Marine 2

[@italianspartacus]

Thanks so much for watching today my bros! There's still a ton more testing that can be done, but this took ages to do! Purchase the Game w/ Discount Here ► www.fanatical.com/en/game/warhammer-40000-space-marine-2-ultra-edition?ref=italianspartacus Find my Beginner Tips Here ► kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHSkioBqndB9rLc Warhammer 40k Lore ► kzbin.info/www/bejne/inKnfYFtmMqImMk Follow me on Twitch! ► www.twitch.tv/italianspartacus Become Part of the Community ► discord.gg/tCnpBPJqRu

[@meesvijfhuizen8271]

found out how the dmg calculations works for ranged. 8:40 14 + 10% = 15,4 15,4 + 20% = 18,48 18,48 + 30% = 24,024 As for the weapons dmg diffrence there is also a explanation. Its base dmg, pistol got base dmg of 5. So +3 power is 8 and +10 power is 15. The rifle is 8+3 and 8+10. Also note that its not +10%+20%+30% but +15%+30%.

[@michaelfielding6666]

Very usage video mate. Many thanks

[@Dman9982]

Melee weapons overall should do more damage, they don’t feel as powerful as they should in my opinion, there’s no reason for minoris enemies to survive a slam from a thunder hammer or a slice from a power sword

[@eituyn]

yeah, the minoris survivability is pretty poopy.

[@Poolehful]

They don't. Especially in pvp, where ranged classes often do more damage in melee shooting than melee specialists do in melee. Often you can't win a fight unless the other player simply isn't engaging you, at which point any class could win anyway. Smashing hormagaunts with a thunder hammer and having none of them actually die just makes it feel like a nerf bat.

[@elijahmontgomery4146]

Or a slash from a chainsword for that matter. Gaunts are should not eat a chainsword to the face.

[@devendoffing7004]

@@Mister_Know_Nameheavy attacks are meant to break the block from Majoris enemies, not Minoris.

[@BOB-sq7id]

Nah melee is fine where its at with minoris. Maybe more buff dmg for melee specifically against terminus would be good.

[@ArthurEverling]

My biggest problem with the Boltguns isn’t so much the damage but the lack of “umf”. If I hit headshots consistently on one enemy they should at least be getting knocked around a bit. I mean those are massive rounds getting shot out of those guns. Not only are they massive but they EXPLODE inside of the target. It doesn’t feel too good when you magdump a Warrior or Rubric Marine’s head while they just kinda stare at you and hit YOU with attacks that stagger or are forced to parry/evade. There’s very little visual or mechanical feedback from Boltguns right now.

[@floorpizza8074]

Exactly. Perfectly said.

[@stephencolonna6790]

Agreed

[@J.B.1982]

A lot of weapons don't stagger like you'd think they do, especially once an enemy is in attack animation. It's a major problem for me. Pisses me off to no end.

[@Wade-q4f]

​@@J.B.1982ikr if they can stop my heavy attack i should be able to stop theirs it bs😅

[@EKk8819]

I think it feels pretty good, especially when you finnaly get that stagger and they start glowing red! Like YES! Idk man u guys just want an easy game.. Nobody who's good and experianced says anything like this I'll tell you that. Get better, don't have the game get easier for you.. You want a stagger every time u land a shot? No lol..

[@dragoon3219]

I am so sick of games obfuscating damage numbers. Like, devs, just give us the damage values. It isn't rocket science. For some ungodly reason it seems to be particularly rampant in shooters.

[@chunchoe]

I guess they don't want people min maxing or something but people are literally going to do that anyway and the people that aren't werent going to care in the first place

[@cherryrook8684]

Agreed. Its like devs are afraid of players being able to make actual valid criticism based on numbers rather than the wishy washy "feels" wich is easier to dismiss.

[@FirstnameLastname-le9hq]

Like wtf does 8+/10 firerate mean? I only know it's 600 rpm because of how often I use an AK in modern shooters, but you should be able to know that regardless

[@EcchiRevenge]

to be fair, it gets a bit complicated for melee weapons with various moves doing different damage. But that shouldn't be a problem for guns.

[@GearShotgun]

This is my biggest issue with Destiny 2. They never give you the actual numbers on your subclasses fragments. It'll say "Improve the duration of this buff" or "Increase number of 'whatever' generated from this ability", but don't provide any hard data on what either of those look like. Its like giving you an instruction manual that only vaguely tells you how to operate something.

[@seanpalmer3982]

After seeing how tedious that testing method is, I have a newfound respect for you lol. Thank you.

[@Kaiserland111]

I agree, but as an engineer I can see that his tests could be more thorough and better tested. Tests should have been conducted with a character that has 0 perks and 0 weapon perks so nothing is changing the base weapon damage except the tier of weapon. Graphs could also help show how the power stat relates directly to damage.

[@CL3VA]

@@Kaiserland111 He literally did damage with no perks.....

[@QpacQmoney]

@@Kaiserland111as an engineer, I would think you would have watched and comprehended his explanation. He literally shows you that, with perks, without…..

[@mattyskipp2703]

​@QpacQmoney He isn't wrong. Seems this channel is pulling in quite a few engineers. I am as well. The initial comment is only trying to assist in the DOE to avoid potential flaws due to extraneous variables, which should not be assumed to have a certain correlation. Which can be solved by having no perks as the control, and only changing one factor at a time.

[@DekkarJr]

@@Kaiserland111 A better test wouldnt be a test - it would be datamined raw data that explains the equations in the programming code itself. Has to be done for a lot of games.

[@th3r3v92]

I am a game dev, and I have to say, we usually use a strange mix of additive and multiplicative bonuses. Let's look at the following example: suppose a headshot gives 50% more damage, then perk1 adds 10% more, and perk2 adds another 10%. Depending on the actual implementation, these three values can combine in several ways, and the outcome depends on which bonuses are additive and which are multiplicative. An additive bonus applies to the base value, calculates, and adds to the overall damage. A multiplicative bonus, on the other hand, applies to the overall value and performs calculations based on that rather than the base damage. So, let's assume in scenario one, all three bonuses are additive. If your base damage is 10, then: 10 + 5 + 1 + 1 = 17. This makes sense because 50% + 10% + 10% equals 70%, so 10 * 1.7 = 17. What happens if these are multiplicative bonuses? If your base damage is 10, then 10 * 1.5 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 18.15. But what if someone combines additive and multiplicative bonuses? Let's say the headshot bonus is multiplicative, but the perks are additive. In this case (assuming the devs calculate additive first and then apply multiplicative): (10 + 1 + 1) * 1.5 = 18. As you can see, with the same three bonus values, damage can range from 17 to 18.15 depending on how the math is done. The more elements you add (such as an armor value or flat damage reduction that could also have additive or multiplicative properties), the more complex the logic becomes and the wider the spread of possible outcomes. I assume this is the scenario here, which could explain why the same perks cause a much larger change with relic weapons.

[@italianspartacus]

fucking love this insight thank you so much for sharing!! yeah that's another thing is understanding which bonuses are additive/multiplicative and where!

[@JoshTheMadLad]

Its the main reason testing things like this is difficult because the more variables you have, IE perks, the more you are unable to determine how the calculation is done. You don't know if something is additive or multiplicative and even if you did, you don't know where in the formula it fits in either. You could have 10 damage, with a +5 additive perk and a 3x multiplicative perk, but the outcome is vastly different just with 2 perks alone based on where in the calculation it's done. 1) 10 * 3 = 30 | 30 + 5 = 35 2) 10 + 5 = 15 | 15 * 3 = 45 Such a massive difference based on what type of bonus it is and where in the calculation it sits. So it makes it difficult unless Devs explicitly state it on tooltips. These Devs don't even give you the base damage number of the weapons. Not only do you have to determine base weapon number, but you then have to categorise every perk 1 by 1 as additive or multiplicative, then you have to test each categorised perk 1 by 1 to see where that specific perk falls within the formula.

[@GrlSnipr]

Thanks bro I really hope more people see your comment

[@kudaj90]

Thats pretty understandable, but I hate when games give me stats based on feels (like firepower here). If we get to play with values, have perks to choose from etc, I would appreciate if the math was known to us without someone doing extensive testing. But then again, I come from rpg backgroud, where all of the math is (not always) transparent.

[@frolicsomgaiety]

Why do 5 and 1 become 1.5 and 1.1 in the multiplicative scenario? Serious question

[@aaronhumphrey3514]

To give context to all of these damage numbers, here are all majoris and minoris health pools for all difficulties: - Warrior: 77/130/230/308 - Hormagaunt: 11/18/32/44 - Termagaunt: 10/16/29/40 - Rubric Marine: 70/112/203/280 - Tzaangor: 11/18/32/44 - Cultist: 2/2/2/2

[@AJDC_5]

Where did you get these values? Is there a Google doc somewhere?

[@aaronhumphrey3514]

@@AJDC_5 Through testing via loading in, killing one enemy, and then dying.

[@Daswobo]

The stats in this game suck. The whole point of weapon stats is to convey information about the weapon to the user, but if the calculations for damage numbers are so convoluted and situational to each weapon they are literally useless for the purpose of comparing weapons to one another in order to make a decision. They really need to just change firepower to show the actual damage number, and allow you to make decisions based off of that.

[@markfisker9701]

Hammer needs to do wayyyy more stagger. Enemy shouldn’t be able to instantly hit me back after taking a charged hammer to the face!

[@borisfrlic]

Exactly. If Melta stuns, hammer needs to stun

[@floorpizza8074]

Yup. Hammer needs a *HUGE* buff. It's a bit of a head scratcher that they even released it this way, let alone didn't buff it in the last patch. Just buffing the Assault's attack wasn't enough.

[@bfmainisnunu8064]

Assault is my favorite class by a long shot and the hammer is my favourite weapon but man it is pure garbage. My level 8 heavy feels stronger than my maxed out assault.

[@BertsBalls]

I love the hammer and use it pretty much all the time on assault, but holy shit is it ridiculous that it takes 2, sometimes 3 to stagger a majoris. Doesn’t even kill some minors with a slam 😂

[@stewmayn2489]

Holy shit guys, your not supposed to be a god, your fighting warriors with huge swords and hitting with heavy hits, your tanking it out with them. Out play them don’t complain that your weapon isn’t doing as much, you still do heaps of damage, at max level you can 2-3 shot majoris with hammer. Especially if you play well and get a gun strike, all of a sudden your taking majoris down within 5 seconds, that’s a huge deal

[@SteveAkaDarktimes]

damn. a single bolt does the same or even more damage than a chainsword hit. now consider Firerate. no wonder melee feels bad.

[@miles6120]

It’s exactly why AOE is meta for melee overall , and why the power fist is easily the worst of them.

[@GoToBedSheeva]

Melee definitely needs a buff.

[@pheebs8451]

Melee feels awesome though? Might take longer to kill something but there’s no ammo limit, there’s blocks and parry’s and survivability is higher in melee.

[@leonidemelin1131]

@@GoToBedSheevadunno, im doing insane dmg on assault. After 350 hours and all classes and weapons max out, i think assault is my favorite

[@hughjazz2408]

See that doesn’t make sense. Good chainsword kills in like 4 good smacks and a gunstrike. Ain’t a single bolter with that kinda time to kill. Maybe the numbers say that but my experience says otherwise. Fencing melee weapons are the only ones that feel good tho. I can’t understand the point of a block weapon. The stats aren’t good enough to lose the gunstrikes. Like they’re challenge weapons to slow down progression

[@YonexCC]

A spreadsheet of this would do the community and individual player a huge solid. Great video and info.

[@italianspartacus]

So I'm planning on this but it's only for three weapons.. Do you still want a spread sheet?

[@zepplin-]

​@italianspartacus Yes! Would there be plans to expand this in future? Would love to see comparisons for secondary weapons as well!

[@dunk79jmf]

​@italianspartacus test power sword next please, so tied between chain sword and power sword :-)

[@devilaces]

@@italianspartacus You know, Space Marine 2 is a pretty popular game here, with a lot of new players who'd be pretty interested in that kind of thing. I bet you could get a lot of views with a video + spread sheet about this.

[@JohnnyCoyote]

​@@italianspartacusabsolutely, the community could expand this

[@boxy2k8]

All I want is a bit more stagger. If it takes a clip for a warrior, it takes a clip, but those .75 (or .99 if heavy bolter) mass reactive explosive rocket proppelled shells should damn well stagger. Knock incoming shots completely off at least. Maybe the warrior has to hunker down to take the shots on the chitin or something. Would make bolt weapons feel like bolt weapons

[@mkultra2456]

Those bonesword warriors always hunker down, they cross their swords and charge at you.

[@hughjazz2408]

@@mkultra2456yah but while you’re ripping him with 75 caliber explosive shells he’s still able to jump at you with a red indicator attack lol. Just a bit ridiculous. The bolt guns do feel like a joke

[@mkultra2456]

@@hughjazz2408 I agree, should have more damage.

[@meesvijfhuizen8271]

I know whats going on in the dmg calculations. 8:43 14 + 10% = 15,4 15,4 + 20% = 18,48 18,48 + 30% = 24,024 You got 3 headshot modifiers of +10%, but they stack on each new calculation.

[@Jamiethekatz]

There might be hidden armor values that reduce damage by a flat amount. If the damage is baseline 31 and there is 17 damage being reduced by armor then suddenly the 30% damage modifier makes sense you go from 14 damage (31-17) to 24 damage (41-17)

[@denodagor]

This is a long video so I don't know if you mentioned and i missed it. But it seems that MELEE majoris have 33% damage resistance to RANGED damage. I did some testing after seeing someone mention that on reddit and it really does seem to be the case. Some other things I tested: - Ranged weapons seem to have around a 4x headshot multiplier, except Plasma weapons that have 1x and the Las Fuzil that has a 5x. - Melee damage across the board seems to follow somewhat close to this scaling: Sprinting attacks deal the lowest damage, light attacks tend to do around 2x as much, and Heavy attacks about 2x as much as a light. (I did not test heavy attacks that charge for longer for extra damage, like the Thunder Hammer. Because the amount of time is hard to be precise and longer charges always get interrupted or hit more than one enemy, such a pain to test.)

[@YTpajamas]

This is actually pretty disappointing. Do I expect triple the amount of damage if I compare a weapon with 5 to a weapon with 15? Yes I do

[@hattõri-Hanzõ-fr]

And It does not interupt the charging of blue or red attacks

[@devilaces]

Recently I thought the "power" number may have just not been enabled and it would come with a future patch. From the fire power, standard auto bolt rifle (2 fire power, 35 round clip) to the relic Heavy Bolt Rifle (9+ power, 45 round clip), I thought I was grinding for a difference of 70 damage per clip compared to 427.5 but I was quite wrong!

[@slacker8727]

@@hattõri-Hanzõ-frlord help us in horde mode

[@adamcumley3950]

No, its Str vs Toughness on a 6 soded dice. Same dammage. Instant change.to wound or overkill.

[@-Hammer-Head-]

I wish games would give us actual detailed numbers and statistics. Simplifying stats like that has the opposite effect of a streamlined experience, it just leaves us more confused

[@Blitzkrieg1012]

It leaves p[people like us confused, here watching a video on damage number breakdowns. The vast majority of the player base doesn't care about these detailed numbers, they just want to level up and feel more powerful when getting that next rank of gun or perk. That's why they do it. If you're online interacting with the community in a video like this then you're a much more hardcore gamer than the thousands who just hop on and play.

[@DekkarJr]

Its actually quite common for devs to keep hidden stats in their games. A lot of times you just to data mine it tbh. Go into the code somehow and figure out where teh exact equations are for each weapon and figure out what they aren't telling you.

[@MoralCertainty]

What a faff for numbers that should just be in the game. Why make the stats so cryptic? Thanks for the hard work brother.

[@DekkarJr]

One reason devs ive experienced in the past do that is they want to have a degree of control over the player bases knowledge of how it all REALLY works because they usually don't want to have to go into a mathmatical breakdown that makes more senses as to how they get to those numbers and how everything else modifies them - also its quite possible some perks and gun stats aren't accurate or are bugged. I think probably the primary reason is because they dont want us to know EVERYTHING about how they balance the game. It could also be they know the numbers don't add up to waht you're actually thinking and havent fixed it in a way that satisfy them yet so they haven't adjusted it in the graphical interface.

[@nekotyrant1629]

I'll never understand Developers refusing to include the actual damn values of gear and abilities, instead of vague bullshit.

[@Steir12]

Japanese are notorious for this and for some reason other developers seems to be eager to copy this crap.

[@istheworldreal]

Probably to reduce sweat in the game overall but still show the general view that this weapon is better than the other etc. Remember what kills gaming is hyper efficiency

[@NoChillMan]

@@istheworldreal That probably is the devs' intention, but it has never worked out that way in any game I've ever played. We still get sweat lords. The community WILL find a way to get those numbers, especially when the game tells you the amount of damage dealt in a mission, as seen in this video. They might as well just give us the detailed stats in the armory.

[@istheworldreal]

@@NoChillMan yes but it will hugely reduce the number of data hyper-fixation player by gatekeeping them. Unless it's a pro-scene, it's fine for game to have these "filter"

[@NoChillMan]

@@istheworldreal I definitely can't say you're wrong. I don't NEED totally accurate stats to know that every purple tier power sword is hot garbage. I am definitely one of those data hyper-fixated players, so it bugs me to no end when devs don't want to give me accurate numbers. I don't know why it bugs me so much. I know it's dumb, but I can't help it lol

[@adamhebert5365]

Jokes on you sparty, I already know why my weapon sucks. It’s because I’m holding it.

[@wtf2676]

Thank you for the testing. It seems like the power stat is absolutely useless. Not only you can't compare different weapon types using it, it also doesn't show the difference between weapon tiers. What I expected is 3x damage increase on 3x strength but looking at your chainsword example it doesn't work this way. It would be nice if the devs showed actual damage numbers there.

[@obitwizzle3766]

Great video. I was wondering how you figured out damage numbers. Loading in to hit something once, just to die to check damage is some serious dedication and I appreciate the hell out of you for it.

[@KhalainBear]

The numbers i had a suspected for a while were different for each weapon, this clarifies that, great work very interesting watch

[@neoburst1]

this is where i wish the game would just give damage numbers because in my head at least with the firepower stat, going from a 3 to a 6 means i should be doing double the damage triple when you get to 9 so seeing the bolt rifle doing about 30% more (without perks at least) going from firepower 3 to 10 feels super underwhelming

[@kingawesome5219]

Health bars, damage numbers, and a proper training room to test gear and practice fighting certain enemies

[@mrbigglezworth42]

@@kingawesome5219 I generally prefer not seeing either of the first 2 but do agree that a training room to see how the weapons feel and effect enemies would be useful.

[@kingawesome5219]

@@mrbigglezworth42 Have the first 2 be setting options and function like Darktide’s so there isn’t much clutter

[@mrbigglezworth42]

@@kingawesome5219 A fair enough midway between the two. A lot of modern games have too much visual clutter that it starts to obstruct the actual moment to moment flow of the gameplay because I can't actually see what's happening anymore. Borderlands 3 is especially bad with it.

[@WTFYI]

The game is practically unable to due to there are different damage modifiers against each enemy type and different headshot modifier as well that you need a full excel sheet for every weapon. Do note that melee majoris take different damage from majoris with guns (huge difference actually) so the test in this video is mostly flawed.

[@Travster93]

Got my heavy maxxed out a week ago and im working on my 2nd class (vanguard) If you're running heavy bolter and not perking into decreased spread, increase heavy stance and headshot dmg you're missing out. If a sniper joins you and adds 30% less spread team wide, youre shooting laserbeams and dropping stuff quick

[@mkultra2456]

Which heavy bolter variant do you use?

[@Travster93]

@mkultra2456 increased accuracy. I chose to perk into the 15% ammo increase too. But that accuracy and added damage is just simply, too good

[@warriorfire8103]

The more I've played, the more I leaned to max accuracy (Accuracy Relic and both accuracy perks). Just due to play my shots are more accurate. I've managed to burst bosses faster with the Power version but it's so inconsistent.

[@DekkarJr]

now u just made me want a heavy bolter style gun that fires lasers

[@АртемПименов-л2о]

Finally some damage numbers i am so fucking happy right now

[@adamarmstrong5780]

Absolutely love breakdowns like this. Your verbiage and eloquent way of speaking makes it that much more enjoyable! Thanks

[@J.B.1982]

To echo another comment because it's important: Enemies will also have different resist values so this test does have that limiting factor, which may not be possible to work around without testing on more enemy types. Awesome work with this. That's dedication.

[@DekkarJr]

yea some of them seem to have way more head armor than others.

[@jaxsonbateman]

A lot of good takeaways from the vid - but the main for me - OMG I HAVE 250 HOURS IN THIS GAME AND DIDN'T REALISE THAT THE LOCK ON ICON HAD A HEALTH INDICATOR! I still don't think I'll use it very often as I find lock on too restrictive when it's way more important to be able to see the whole battlefield, but it's a nice little touch that may be useful from time to time.

[@DekkarJr]

OM

[@floorpizza8074]

This was amazing. You put in the time and effort to answer all the questions that we all had, but we just didn't want to have to put in the time and effort to do so. Thank you, Brother Spartacus!

[@TehOak]

Thank you so much for doing this. In most games I play I try and consider raw data like this, and it’s not always easily obtainable. Sometimes people data mine information and sometimes people do it like this with repeated parses to get the information, which is much more time consuming. Either way, it’s incredibly valuable and I appreciate it a lot. Great content. 👌🏻

[@Neknesch]

I'm not a game dev, but I always think, that a increase in difficulty shouldn't always be a "You die in 2 hits and the enemy takes a whole mag now" type of thing. How about letting them the same or maybe a minimal increase in health, but WAY more of them? 2 Liktors at once? throw in a Carnifex as well. See me struggeling? here is a Hellbrute for you, lets see how you handle that!

[@jeddfthornton5782]

What the hell? Why do devs do this? The whole effing point of damage numbers is so you can compare weapons. This makes the numbers in game COMPLETE GARBAGE. I'm so unreasonably angry.

[@magiv7573]

I think the assumed that players can figure out that a pistol hits weirder than a sniper Which is fair But this isn't like monster hunter where motion values are a thing A shot will always hit for thr same amount, thus it's necessary for comparison of similar weapons

[@hardware72]

I just performed my own testing with my favorite set up, Assault Power Fist. Here's what I found on inferno ruthless against one majoris enemy. The relic fist I used as Aggamendes's Gift - Beta (fencing) with modifiers that added 15% overall damage and 10% to tyranids for a total of a 25% damage increase. I did not use the cannon punch upgrade (should theoretically if you used it, make it a damage modifier of 18 then). Thrust Jab full charge: 223, 163, 112, 223 (223 is the true value, explanation further down) Thrust Jab no charge: 50, 50 Backfist full charge: 223 Backfist no charge: 50 Hammer Hook full charge: (I've had enough of attempting full charged, just going to assume roughly 255) Hammer Hook no charge: 62 Ain't no way I'm going to try to land thrust jab/backfist 2 without a single other hit, and you rarely get that far into a combo to begin with Light attack: 25, 25 Ground Pound charged: 138, 138 Ground Pound no charge: 117, 117 Cannon Punch: 12, 12 First to note, is that thrust jab full charge was very difficult to get a proper reading for. This is because the game appears to prefer to allow a finisher state on majoris. This is likely because of how useful finishers are and how important armor regen as a mechanic is. Both the 163 and 112 values were as the AI had done damage already, and it placed the target majoris into a finisher ready state. Another interesting note is that even though the combos vary for the power fist, the charged and no charged shared the same values. There is no way I'm going to try and string together the full combo to see the last. First it would be way to RNG time consuming, second you rarely get to do a full combo. The BIGGEST surprise of them all though is how little a charged vs uncharged ground slam from Assault changes it's damage for the amount of time one has to stay airborne. Unless a full charge provides extra AoE range, there would be little reason to ever perform a charged slam. If somebody knows if it affects AoE size do let me know. Overall, power fist is oddly consistent with this version's strength of 10+ but I will not be bothering to test how it's personal strength changes based on type since fencing version is just currently the best choice. For those curious about perk tree, follow bottom 5 perks to tyranid slayer, up to chaos slayer, combo, and tide of battle. Last point pick up the master-crafted vertical damage increase. TL;DR Version: With light attacks as a baseline, heavy no charge deals 200% damage and heavy charged deals 892% more damage (patch notes weren't lying when saying "greatly increases charge damage"). Charged heavy attacks provide high risk high reward and almost never use a charged up ground pound (unless it affects AoE size which I am unsure if it does or does not). Bread and butter combos are to freely change between light and heavy no charged attacks aside from opportunities to partially charge. Lastly I would like to just say that the charged attacks were a PAIN to ever properly do and I never wish to try testing that again lmao.

[@r.j.macready]

The melee weapon issue is less of an issue vs nids because killing anything of significance heavily impacts all the minoris. One of the reasons Tsons suck is they have no such weakness to game for and they fight you less so there is less to parry.

[@DekkarJr]

yeah its actually shocking how many people ive watched play this game and NOT even realisze taht killing any higher tyranid will FUCK up the tinier ones near them. Like any time a zoan thrope shows up it has to die not just because its buffing all the enemies it's psychically connected to, but it will KILL most if not all of them given they are in range for it's death. And that applies to EVERY Warhammer Game as well lol

[@Kaiserland111]

I HATE when games obfuscate the true numbers of their weapons, especially when they don't even use the same scale. Speed for all weapons should be attacks per second, damage should be listed per shot/light attack, range should be listed in meters, etc.

[@DekkarJr]

Same. FF14 did that for years and every patch the community naturally had to datamine what was actually going on because we had no DPS meters or anything like that back in 2014ish for that game cus they didnt approve of them and would ban you if someone reported you ( likely someone you know that doesnt like you for some reason is usually how that happens in that game but they are way more lax on 3rd party mods now and streamers use them openly on stream so it's cool now) But ya like we used to not know all of our DPS and the total health of the raid bosses we were fighting for well a long long time tbh. Now that is a cultural thing i think as most japanese companies are very similar in their stat design. There are of course way more things hidden in stats in an MMORPG with millions of subscribers vs a smaller game like this tho.

[@cleverdiversion324]

Thankyou for making your format consumer friendly and putting out such comprehensive work for each game you cover!

[@burnin8able]

this game severely needs a lab to test stuff out in. the trials you can do on each class proves there is a setting in the battle barge that could be used for it, so why not? Darktide has the meatgrinder as a perfect example of a lab, give the Marines one too

[@mkultra2456]

Also Darktide needs a bar to play cards and get drunk. It was in one of the trailers.

[@burnin8able]

@@mkultra2456 TRUE

[@J.B.1982]

They said they are adding something like that.

[@JonathanFlexx]

I still use bolt penetration on my tactical when running plasma, extra damage for a couple shots per cooldown is nice but gunstriking more than one guy at once is gold.

[@DrBreezeAir]

A table at the end would've been perfect. Thank you for the research!

[@WAAAAAAGH]

When over 20 seconds and 10-11 hits with the obligatory slow-but-powerful weapon is considered "way less successive hits and effort" to kill one of the entry-level elites after you've maxed a weapon's stats and damage in a PvE horde game, that's a problem. No idea why there was so much positivity to shaving off 4 hits but ADDING 4-5 seconds from the apparently less efficient way showed just before.

[@EKk8819]

It's SIMPLE!! There are colors for your weapons, colors for the difficulty. Match the colors, green weapons, do min/average AKA green missions, Relic weapon, run ruthless, and obviously purple level, run substantial.. Guys all level 1 weapons and ur in ruthless like "Why is my weapon weak"... It's not as complicated as this guy says, it's just exactly what I said. Match the weapon level to the difficulty and you'll be fine.

[@xx3uddhaxx]

“Let off some Steam Bennett” - John Matrix

[@dunk79jmf]

Don't disturb my friend he's dead tired Or my person favourite This is my weak arm Sally 😅

[@TheTulioChannel]

Tried some substantial missions solo with mastercrafted weapons on tactical, and it was a struggle. I wish there was a thing like a small chance of getting higher level of armory data for solo or something like that

[@elijahmontgomery4146]

Agreed, breaking into substantial is not easy

[@douglaura2652]

The game is balanced around using one weapon Tier below the difficulty tier you're doing.

[@kingawesome5219]

Equip melta, learn locations of armory data, and just speedrun the missions without attacking anything unless need contested health or you are in an arena where you have to defend or wait for an objective. That has unironically improved my grind and enjoyment of the game. Obviously do it solo or with a premade group.

[@TheTulioChannel]

@@kingawesome5219 yeah, thats my strat for a while, still feels lack of damage, but can be doable somehow

[@kingawesome5219]

@@TheTulioChannel Honestly doing damage and getting kills doesn’t matter or can even be a detriment unless it’s a boss. Which feels kinda bad in a horde based game.

[@soulstar4268]

I have noticed that as a Sniper class, a shot to the back of the head "appears" to do more damage than to the front.

[@bpkdasbaum]

firepower is probably like the DPS stat in MMOs. it's dmg times attackspeed. slow weapons like the sniper rifles hit harder, but shoot slower, fast weapons like a heavy bolter hit for less, but shoot way faster, they can still be similar in DPS, aka power.

[@moreauclement9702]

For how slow it is, thunder hammer does not deal enough

[@rmw9420]

thunder hammer definitely needs a buff but other options seem fine besides the power fists bugged moves

[@ravioliravioligivemethefor5882]

I'm about to level assault next, what melee weapon would you recommend?

[@m1stern00by]

All of them. Use your skills like a man instead of asking questions.

[@Viking355th]

@@ravioliravioligivemethefor5882 Thunder hammer all the way. It's slow, but it cleaves really well, and when your only other weapon is a pistol, you need something that can sweep. As always, use the fencing version as soon as it becomes available, even though the purple fencing hammer is the slowest weapon in the game.

[@rmw9420]

@@ravioliravioligivemethefor5882 I personally use a chain sword with a build revolving around it. However if you're going to fight a boss you should probably take the thunder hammer to deal as much damage as possible with your ground pounds.

[@miles6120]

@@ravioliravioligivemethefor5882 Chainsword is best overall But the hammer is better in certain situations. Against tyranids both are good But against chaos marines the hammer is going to be a lot harder to use ( slow stuns and chaos marines can teleport )

[@aldoparziale5669]

Speaking about Perks, can you make video showing all the perks you used for every single weapon and why you chose those exact ones for each?

[@motzibcek]

Thank you for doing this. I had a hunch that the weapon stats are a relic from Tabletop, and are at best arbitrary.

[@Anders-vl6kk]

thanks for this. must have taken you forever! if only there was like a training dummy in the sparring arena that showed damaged values...

[@oliverschmid3128]

very cool and informative video .. would be really nice if you could put the findings in a table file or something

[@JohnDoe-wg9sy]

A quick note about tyranid warriors, the warriors with swords and whips have higher mitigation to ranged attacks, and the warriors with guns have higher mitigation to melee attacks. So if you alternated between hitting melee or ranged warriors, it will have thrown off your numbers. A lot of this stuff has been datamined.

[@Handlesaretrash]

My weapons sucks because even as a relic, most feel weak and inaccurate as shit maxed because that’s how the devs made them. Not to mention that everything can absorb a damn full mag

[@theblazer8104]

Thank you for finally figuring damage out, you earned this like and subscribe today

[@FrostEternalGaming]

Knowing your weapon is very important. Fixing the servers is even more important. You can't use your weapons if the game won't load. I sat down this morning to play, 30 min , in, and I haven't played due to four severe failure connections (three 104 error codes and one pure server issue). I have closed the game out and reloaded three times, and one quit to the title screen. To say I'm over it... understatement.

[@Nasherit]

My general rule of thumb is if your weapon is 1 teir below your difficulty you'll be fine Masterwork for substantial, Artificer for ruthless etc. Since the game is balanced around you having weapons of those teirs before you need to go up a difficulty to unlock the next tier ofc making sure you have all the perks is a must but you earn armory data way faster than you do exp anyway. Sometimes with mates if 1/2 are useing artificer the third will use a default to get it into master crafted in 1 ruthless since without geneseed you need 10 ruthless to go from 0 to relic

[@1999worldjacob]

Here i am at level 4 with master craft weapons on ruthless never getting incapacitated and carrying my 2 downed teammates Edit: (just wanted to say the game is too easy currently. New difficulty needs to come faster)

[@soulward6334]

There's a deffinate skill requirement check at higher difficulties. When you're on a team and all 3 know basic mechanics the run is smooth. If not, strugglebuss.

[@1999worldjacob]

@@soulward6334 depends on the map too. Inferno and decap are so unbelievably easy. Some of the chaos missions are really hard to solo tho. (Not as bad after the AI director nerfs)

[@EcchiRevenge]

@@soulward6334 if you want to just beat a level, spam dodgeroll and don't fight, run to the end.

[@AshKaye78]

Love your videos man. Much appreciated for all your advice and tips 👍

[@Avoozlx]

Thanks for the in depth video, subbed.

[@loyalwar658]

Goddamn!!! I could only imagine how many loading screens you had to deal with while doing this. Thank you!

[@courtnie97]

Sounds like Chainsword needs a bit of a buff. No wonder why it feels like i have to do 20 strikes just to kill something with a chainsword.

[@manhoenguy6104]

just a little bit extra to the video, from my testing headshot damage scaling is multiplicative not additive in case anybody wanted to know. base damage x (1+generic damage modifiers ) x 2 x (1+headshot modifiers) testing method: shoot 1 bullet at a ranged tyranid warrior -> die -> look at end screen. weapon used, heavy bolt pistol data obtained: base - 12 headshot - 24 headshot with 15% - 28 headshot with 20% headshot - 29 headshot with 15% increased, 20% headshot - 33 headshot with 35% increased, 10% headshot - 36 headshot with 25% increased, 20% headshot - 36 headshot with 25% increased, 45% headshot - 43 caveats: rounding differences, some enemies might take more damage than nid devourers.

[@TalkingRacoon922]

I actually like to see that I deal more damage with firearms than melee, because when I need to deal more damages faster, I stagger with melee attacks and switch to my firearm to dump tons of headshots at point blank range. But although I like this play style and it felt significative, I was never sure if it was just my impression that I was killing faster.

[@firefeedproductions]

@italianspartacus at the end you say that gunstrikes count as headshots. I noticed that when you get the free "one shot kill with headshot" perk using tactical and auspex perk, the gunstrike doesnt seem to kill and count as the headshot. Do you have any insight on this? does gunstrike ACTUALLY count as a headshot? sorry if i worded this weird, thank you.

[@davidsherlock5528]

It seems like the perk damage buff is significantly higher for guns than for melee. Based on your numbers, it almost looked like melee was only getting the 25% listed buff on the perks (with perhaps a bit of rounding involved), while guns were getting a lot of bonus damage for having perks on top of the percentages the perks granted directly.

[@babyhueking4280]

Loving your videos on space marine, I think it’s time I sub

[@ItsMoorbinTime]

The trials would be a great place to test some stuff, like directional damage.

[@italianspartacus]

We can't see the damage numbers unfortunately :(

[@Apostasy_Plague]

"cinderblock attached to rebar" *shows assault power walking with thunderhammer*

[@jordanherther1085]

You only need the armory data to unlock the tier. OPTIONALLY you can skip the xp grind for the weapon and unlock the perk immediately using data. Unless you don't want to use a weapon variant there isn't much reason to do this due to the xp requirement to hit the next tier.

[@Blit_Wizbok]

thank you for doing this. It must have taken forever with how slow loading times are, and using what limited tools we have. I hate that the stat numbers are so inconsistent.

[@DekkarJr]

There is always some kind of secret hidden value that has to get datamined or w/e by you smart people in video games. Sometimes tons of them. And I want that electric axe from the opening cutscene with the Deathwatch lmao

[@MrCaskwine]

so, its clearly stated in the class perks of several classes that headshots do more damage, blocking counters, and perfect block sequences also multiply damage

[@DKC196]

It baffles me that any thunder hammer in its recommended difficulty tier doesn’t kill a minoris enemy in one light attack. At least make it so the high power stat Thunder hammers can do that, especially since you give up perfect parrying.

[@mistermiahboy4695]

Thanks bro. Just commenting for the algorithm👍

[@Derpartment]

appreciate your efforts here, do you know if this information is also applicable to pvp?

[@ToliG123]

I recently started playing assault. Definitely think there should be a way to disable the circle. It’s not helpful at all until after you’ve left the ground imo.

[@Labelle102]

I really wish they had put a target dummy in the new sparring room for this kinda stuff.

[@PerfectDeath4]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of dmg modifier based on the projectile type, melee swing animation, etc. Like the hammer has big wide swings, great for swarms vs the power fist which is focused on a single target. Of course the question is, does the fist gain enough dmg from this? Either way, the game feels like the emphasis is on the parries, gun strikes, and ranged fire for DPS. Does make some degree of sense, guns use ammo, so that would usually offset an advantage. Gunstrikes are skill based around dodge and parries.

[@leafgreenbeast]

could be weapon mastery that applies a damage bonus, since the perks themselves come from mastery+armory data spending

[@S1030dan]

Honestly all Bolters should be doing the same damage + - 1. the only difference that should be there is Range and Penetration and Accuracy And Rate of Fire, unless they are all using the same ammo type. Because some of the Bolters have different colored shells and tip model, im not a lore nerd so i dont know if that denotes a different ammo type. Or its just for looking pretty.

[@cykeok3525]

Yeah, that'd make more sense. BUT SM2 uses video game logic where enemies have more health (and stagger resist) in higher difficulty settings, which you're supposed to counteract with higher tier weapons. The bigger health/bigger damage thing is just non-lore friendly, pure video game logic here, try not to think about it XD On a different note, if you're interested you can look up the lore... bolters have all kinds of crazy special ammo instead of normal explosive bolts. Hellfire rounds filled with mutagenic poison, Kraken rounds with longer range, Dragonfire rounds that burn targets, Vengeance rounds with shorter range but punch through armor, etc etc different special ammo for different situations.

[@xCCflierx]

Devs just have to let things like this be transparent. Glad they at least have damage in clear numbers at end of game

[@theonlymann1485]

theres something about tyranid warrior's hp that apprantly ranged warrior's HP pool is less than melee variants

[@eituyn]

Also, question: At 22:50 you say that you already have one of the Majoris nodes of health down. Where are you seeing that? How can you see enemy health?

[@italianspartacus]

When you target them, there's that little triangle. Those 3 "nodes" of health disappear as he takes damage

[@masondaniels2893]

​@@italianspartacus I did not know that, thank you!

[@eituyn]

@@italianspartacus lol, I have wondered what those are. I have like 150 hrs in and all my toons at max but never realized that. Thanks man!

[@warriorfire8103]

Oh no wonder. Most players don't use lock on

[@Joxer1049]

Yo I’d love to see the plasma differences when compared to bolt rifles just to see which one is, according to the numbers, more effective per shot

[@sirmaddin9132]

They should add target dummies to the base. Preferably for the 4 different difficulty levels of the game with the damge showing on a billboard.

[@Jonathan-yu9ui]

I feel like the devs should add weak spots in the nids armor, like shooting at gaps in their exoskeleton, or joints, neck etc. The backs and head of the warriors look relatively armored so I would avoid shooting them with weapons that don't have high AP values (I want that to be a factor in game so the heavy bolt rifle, heavy bolter can do more AP damage to bypass nid armor and do full damage)

[@EcchiRevenge]

They're intentionally evolved creatures; the unarmored parts are likely not going to be vitals. So ironically not having a detailed hitbox beside the head is more "realistic."

[@eldred7779]

Ugh of course the values aren't consistent between weapons. I was wondering why an uncharged plasma shot at like 5 power wasn't killing gaunts on headshots when a 3 strength bolt pistol was (I am making numbers up, excuse me if they're wrong). Very cool testing, definitely subscribed now.

[@DekkarJr]

The best part of the Chainsword is the stomp. I like it, but im forced to use it on the classes i like to paly :/

[@panzercake8485]

I just want the auto bolt rifle to not be kinda worthless for anything but minoris swarms (which can honestly be handled with a secondary pistol and melee anyway).

[@hattõri-Hanzõ-fr]

I think this is all the skills tree of the assault that must be changed. I have more survivability with the vanguard and his fast and powerfull knife in the middle of a wave partly thanks to his skills (Plus grap' and Melty...) Assault is very fun and I like it, in particular with the hammer but he's a way below the other classes for what he brings in a team.

[@Johan-ld3wm]

I can imagine that SM2 does things similarly to how Darktide does it. Which means that you have a base damage that applies to hits versus the body. Then you have a multiplier stat (that is unique for each weapon in Darktide) that multiplies the base damage by "X" on headshots. In Darktide there are also perks and such... If i have a weapon that does 100 base damage and has a headshot multiplier of 2.34, then headshots will deal 234 damage. And if i add a perk to that weapon that increases headshot damage by 10%, it doesn't increase the 234 dmg by 10%, it adds another 10% to the multiplier of 2.34 to become 2.44. So with a headshot perk that adds 10% more headshot damage, i will now deal 244 damage with headshots. BUT!!! if i add a perk that increases the base damage of the weapon versus a certain enemy type of 10%, then all damage across the board increases. But not like it's +10% dmg base and +10% vs headshots versus that specific enemy type... No, it's +10% base damage. So your base damage increases from 100 to 110, but subsequentially your headshot damage also increases, but not by 10%, the headshot multiplier stays the same. But now when you have a higher base damage, your headshot damage increases as well as it still has that unaltered 1.32 headshot damage multiplier.

[@schematiks]

Powerfist is shocking. Got it maxed and it tickles people. They should increase swarm size and buff damage

[@Mozgodrobil]

To answer "WHY YOUR WEAPON SUCK", well, because weapon balance is SM2 sucks doo doo. Simple as

[@jonathanmcdonald3721]

Pretty sure weapons can only get perk bonuses through their rarity. So, if you use a standard weapon rarity, they won't get any perk bonuses from higher rarities.

[@forgottenone9879]

After watching this video and playing the game. Is proof that so many weapons in the game need a buff, ASAP.

[@anonimus370]

going from damage value of 3 to a damage value of 10 increases damage by 30%, perfectly logical. I knew this shit was BS but at least now I know.

[@connorjensen9699]

"xenos cake" ... hmmm sounds like extra special heresy to me

[@gamer_just1n]

I really wish we just had dmage numbers for the stats of the weapons or at least a damage range (ex 10-13).

[@eituyn]

You're the goat for doing this.

[@mkultra2456]

Naw he's a moose.

[@tbone9474]

As much as i love the game, i find it ridiculous that the only way to have gear suited for ruthless... is to play initially ruthless with 1 tear lower gear

[@ImhotepsServant14]

At 9 min, it’s not a direct addition of 30%. It’s more 14*1.1 -> 15.4*1.1 -> 16.9 *1.1 -> etc