Trying To Predict Deltarune Chapter 3...

[@CalamitasCalliope]

21:48 you could also say that Toriel is warm and smothering, but Mayor Holiday is cold and distant. They really feel like opposite sides of the same coin

[@guiltyflygon]

Well put

[@guiltyflygon]

Having to have Kris be downed in every fight does actually make a lot of sense in terms of making Toriel go harder on the enemies and making the route harder. If I had to pick something I'd probably go with that.

[@minestar2247]

There is also the other party members' moms, like susie's mom who misunderstands her child like toriel, or berdly's mom who actively ignores him, kinda like how toriel doesn't facilitate kris' hobbies

[@owenbridgers]

I would love for Mike and Tenna to be a Duo act, Mike being short and Tenna being tall as a reference to that classic bit

[@TheGlenn8]

What is also important would be Toriel's reaction to Ralsei. You know, another boss monster kid who seems to look suspiciously similar to Asriel. How would Toriel react to seeing a copy of her flesh and blood son? Will Toriel notice the pink horns (boss monsters always have white horns, but Ralsei's horns are pink. Colors in the dark world are a shade lighter than colors in the light world, so the Ralsei's horns are most likely actually red. Red horns, red horn headband) and how will she react to that? Also. Susie as the final boss of the weird route seems totally fucking awesome. I'm thinking that it might be the only battle we have in the light world, so there are no magic powers and they're just fighting with an actual knife in Kris's case and maybe Susie has like a pipe or something. Susie being absolutely heartbroken about realizing how Kris has been manipulating people and getting the hurt in the dark world would be a real gut punch. And of course what makes it extra tragic is that Kris isn't responsible for any of it, but that it's the player forcing them.

[@queen-of-trash]

imo the reason for the Lost Girl theme being in the sneaking song is because on the spamton sweepstakes Noelle blog titled “the new girl”, Noelle mentions her hiding “Holiday Family Ninja Style”. So perhaps a character was going to mention kris knowing “holiday family ninja” skills due to being friends with Noelle and letting them take the lead in the stealth.

[@guiltyflygon]

I didn't catch that at all haha. It could be true!

[@vgfmak]

Toby's newsletters hinted at this chapter being experimental/unorthodox and light on story, which makes me think that it will be non-linear like your channel surfing idea. However, I think the channels can be completed in whatever order the player wants and the chapter will be light on story because each channel has less of a "cause and effect" relationship with one another to avoid complicating the writing/outcomes for the chapter.

[@Big-Image]

I think chances are, he could be lying about the chapter and he has another surprise in store for us once it releases.

[@g-ray7121]

HOLY SHIT!!!!! IS THAT A YUME NIKKI REFERENCE!?!?!?!??!?!

[@callumsmodellingcentre6902]

​@Big-Image that's not really Toby's thing though, he's not some maniacal trickster, the community treats him like he's Scott Cawthorne but realistically he's been pretty trustworthy so far

[@lennyfacebutnotreally3198]

26:51 I'm sorry but between the cowboy outfits and Susie normally having a yellow soul on her outfit and... I... I can't stop thinking of Undertale Yellow, I'm sorry

[@scientificallyaccuratespino]

The UTY brainrot is real (I, too, have UTY brainrot)

[@KitsuneNinjaSaberCat]

Gosh I hope they make a reference to it like a nod to Clover or martlet or chujin or a location where it looks like his mansion and explore it and get jumpscared by chujin again as a Easter egg and battle him or walking up to his shrine and it shakes and you battle ceroba husband help him get a peaceful ending but that would be too dark for delta rune.

[@QSBraWQ]

@@KitsuneNinjaSaberCati bet its gonna be two lines of flavor text, like ralsei with minigun and ralsei smoking weed references. and its prob gonna be in chap 4 if ever

[@LiMe251]

You and I have similar ideas of how this chapter will work: two bosses, CH3 being how we get the Shadow Mantle for CH4, etc. etc. That's pretty neat.

[@brastionskywarrior6951]

whenever someone critisizes you for using vibes remember. They fear you. A powerful vibemuse can become a person of immense power by merely reading the vibrations

[@jofusdacat653]

top tier VibeRater

[@grianjuju9438]

26:50 thats actually a consistent thing with the belt of susies having different shapes, when she joins lancer and is chilling her belt is diffrent too

[@guiltyflygon]

Huh, you're right, I didn't know that. That said, I think it could also just be the spriters struggling to render a heart from that perspective with so few pixels, as all of her other sprites the heart stays consistent. Hard to say for sure.

[@grianjuju9438]

@@guiltyflygon i doubt they had problems with rendering a pixel heart, I think they made the heart into an X symbol on purpose because it was only in that chair and being fanned by Ruddins.

[@grianjuju9438]

(Also it's easy to render a heart in that position, and they do a good job rendering the heart in way harder situations)

[@pkakaTC2]

18:50 I was literally thinking that mayor holiday would appear instead of the cops or Asgore too since she is alert about the activities in hometown and it would make sense to have some intro or development for her before we see her at the festival

[@pkakaTC2]

Maybe Toby had more incentive to release the scrapped sneaking song for the motif to be shown or something idk?

[@CalamitasCalliope]

I do think that if the element system does ever get properly introduced, it'll be in this chapter. It's likely that Toriel will have a Fireshock spell to parallel Noelle's Iceshock. Noelle mentioned that spell when talking about Dragon Blazers. This info probably won't be too useful in the normal route, but maybe it'll be the key to accomplishing the weird route. Noelle was able to truly defeat enemies because her magic stopped them from running, but fire wouldn't have that advantage. Maybe the only way to get Toriel to defeat enemies correctly is to both make her concerned(like you suggested), and have her target Darkners who are weak to Fire. In fact, if you are right that the flowers are going to be the secret boss then it would make sense that a Plant element is weak to fire. We would need Toriel to defeat the Secret Boss fight at the end of the Weird Route(Also unrelated, but I bet that Puppet/Cat type is weak to Ice to show why we needed Noelle in order to defeat Spamton Neo when he boosted his defense).

[@guiltyflygon]

It'd also be easy to introduce a large variety of elements if the chapter really is based around going channel to channel, so I can agree this would be a good chapter to start making elements a bigger deal. As for Toriel in the weird route, I do think that she's a far more powerful monster than Noelle being a Boss Monster and all, so enemies might not get a chance to escape. But I do like the idea of having to target Darkners weak to fire. The weird route Spamton Neo fight was the hardest fight in the chapter, so maybe instead of having Toriel's fire for the flower boss in the weird route, you don't?

[@CalamitasCalliope]

@guiltyflygon I can see it go a couple ways. Either Toriel intervenes at the last second Noelle style with the secret boss, or another thing I've seen people do is have Kris be downed throughout the entire battle so you only have Toriel. That seems pretty cool

[@LiMe251]

I'm more of an "Even-numbered chapters receive Weird Routes" person, but that could work.

[@areshseptango9619]

Ive always felt that line about crime is more about the mayor running the town efficiently and effectively and in combination with it being small everything is just peaceful. More so than her like, driving around solving crimes

[@guiltyflygon]

That's fair, I just got the vibe given all the dialogue from the people in town hall and Alphys that she was very "hands on" so to speak lol.

[@jackeroni216]

an idea i have for this chapter kinda relates to the "broken partnerships" theme you came up with. my idea is that kris and susie are gonna disagree on whether or not Toriel should know about their adventures. Kris seems to have made the dark world in order to prove to the adults that they exist (like getting cops involved and showing their mother), but susie doesn't seem like the type to want adults getting in the way of her fun. i imagine a lot of the chapter will involve susie, ralsei, and (presumably) the player trying to avoid her so she doesn't start being overprotective and keeping the kids from getting in danger by doing everything herself, while kris disagrees and tries to get toriel to help them. also i like the channel surfing idea, i imagine we'll get a weather channel, cooking show, crime drama, and probably also a kaiju movie (hoping we create susiezilla to fight the final form of the last boss, kinda like T.H.R.A.S.H in ch2)

[@guiltyflygon]

That seems like a pretty relevant issue to happen in this chapter, I agree

[@spacealien3073]

I know its a small part of this but I'm glad you brought up Nastablook as a possible cop becaue I've watched quite a few prediction videos on chapter 3 and EVERY SINGLE ONE Has only brought up Undyne as the sole possible person that could show up in the dark world. Like ya'll you forgot there's at least 2 cops in this game and last time we saw Undyne she had ran off to chase some dog criminals. We can't really know if she ever got back to the police station later or if she's still trying to grab them lol. That all noted it wouldn't surprise me if Mayor Holiday or even Asgore show up in the dark world in addition to one of the cop characters. Asgore because he's an ex cop and obviously has plot relevance to Toriel and Major Holiday because she's implied to be a sorta not great mother so she could use actually showing up in the story and getting some character development.

[@whatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatw]

i absolutely eat your theory videos up every time. i dont remember who it was, but someone had made a video about how the dynamics between queen and each of the kid protagonists can symbolize the relationships between the kids and their mothers. i love the idea that the game will keep developing that by having mayor holiday and toriel be the characters we bring along with us. if this happens and we get both of the moms in one place, i think we could get some background info on what Happened on the day that dess disappeared because they might kind of awkwardly talk about dess and asriel or they might even have some sort of confrontation when they interact. of course with ch3 being a light one any interactions would be silly but the utdr fandom will definitely be able to dissect what they say to each other no matter how small-talk-y it ends up being. not likely to happen but im imagining some sort of interaction like mayor: so how are kris and asriel? toriel: yeah good. how a- how is, uhh noelle?? lmao i would be really excited to see these character dynamics play out because it, like you said, plays more into what seems to be the main themes of the game (control, but also family, reality/unreality). this would be a lot more valuable to the story overall than having undyne or napstablook return as characters unless they're somehow related to the day dess disappeared (which is what i think will be the main mystery besides how kris became possessed, unless youre me and you also think that the day dess disappeared was the same day kris started the process to get possessed) i also want more info on catti... and we might be able to get it from the controlling moms worrying about occult activity. and of course we can gather more info about susie and ralsei's background with how they react to the parents being there- since we dont know anything about their families except that susie's doesnt treat her well or maybe isnt around guiltflygon i remember you're theoreies......

[@guiltyflygon]

Yeah, the Universal Mother Theory! I used that for evidence in my last video haha. I like most of it, other than some of the assumptions about Toriel, but this chapter will confirm those one way or the other I'd say. I think Asgore was definitely the one who was Police Chief when Dess disappeared... But Undyne was still on the force at the time as she was quickly promoted afterwards... That's said, it's be pretty rude of her to be complaining about nothing ever happening around town all the time if she failed to solve Dess's case for all this time lol. Human... I remmber you're COMMENTS

[@_sbstn.]

I find it very strange that this is considered a lighter story chapter, specially considering that it’s Kris the one who opens the fountain, and all the other dark world we’ve entered so far have been presumably opened by someone else before we get to them. I wonder how Kris’ will and the circumstances we enter the dark world in will have an impact on it

[@guiltyflygon]

Light on story doesn't necessarily mean light on development for the characters. It's like you said, this fountain wasn't opened by the Knight, so it not contributing as much to the overall plot makes some sense. I'm personally hoping this is going to be a big development chapter for Kris, but we'll see.

[@_sbstn.]

@@guiltyflygon I understand now thank you for the explanation. I feel like it will definitely give us an insight on whatever Kris is plotting. What I’m hoping for is some more information on dark worlds and Ralsei, who will for sure have something to say about Kris creating a fountain.

[@astuffedalpaca5365]

I’m not done with the video yet but I think the mayor being the “cop” that visits the dark world is a really interesting prediction! She feels like someone we won’t meet this early on but her potential parallels with Toriel are a really good point, and now I’m surprised I haven’t heard anyone else make that prediction before. As for the weird route… while the idea of taking advantage of Toriel’s protectiveness is interesting, I really doubt the weird route will consist of forcing other characters to kill, I think it will continue to be mostly centered on Noelle, for a few reasons. First, Noelle’s spells in the DW are a manifestation of spells she uses in Dragon Blazers. And the Spamton Sweepstakes emphasizes her proficiency at glitch hunting, implying that the Snowgrave route’s existence is a manifestation of this, as it is meant to evoke scary video game glitch creepypastas. So I don’t think the weird route is possible without Noelle. Second, if the weird route did involve us weaponizing other characters like Toriel, the player would have to actively choose to take that course of action, meaning the weird route could otherwise be aborted in chapter 3. That doesn’t seem possible to me, Berdly is dead and Noelle has resolved to figure out what’s going on with Kris, those things can’t be undone. This would mean that there would be like, 5 extremely different variations of the normal route depending on what chapter you aborted the weird route in, which is super unlikely. But overall, I’m really liking the video! You bring up a lot of original points.

[@guiltyflygon]

I suppose that's true from a gameplay standpoint. Although I would posit that it's possible for a weird route to happen here even if the events and fallouts of CH2 are set in stone, it just requires Toriel to be used for something other than what Noelle was. Like, maybe we have to use Toriel to kill someone to get a specific item we'll need for something later that you can get later in the route but it would be significantly harder later on. Or, as I kind of suggested in the video, maybe the weird route is all about making characters stronger so the final boss fight of the route isn't impossible? That way, each chapter's progress towards strengthening the party is independent, and you can never flunk out of the route in general even if you decide not to follow through with one in a certain chapter. You got me thinking about all that, so thanks!

[@theprinceofawesomeness]

the Sherif and Outlaw idea is something i like, and a thought it gave me is that maybe the dynamic is reversed if you did snowgrave or normal

[@accirax6116]

I don't know where exactly this would fit in, but if we're dealing with rooks for this chapter, could this be the reintroduction of the purple soul mode for fights (like how the yellow mode came back for Spamton in Ch2)? It would force you to only be able to move side to side and up and down to mimic a rook. If the secret boss is flower themed, maybe they would even throw little flowers at us in the same way that Muffet threw spiders. (I might just be trying to manifest this since I really enjoyed the purple fight, lol) Being able to block an attack from a knight with the green mode shield also makes some sense to me, for a future knight themed boss/chapter.

[@guiltyflygon]

There's a couple of different patterns the soul modes might be returning in for the secret boss fights, but in short we will probably get either purple or green, so it's definitely possible you're right! One of the theories is that we're getting the soul modes in reverse order of the bosses from Undertale. Asgore/Asriel used the red soul mode and then Metatron used yellow. After that is Muffet, so this is the theory that supports purple being next. The other one, kind of put forward by me in an earlier video, is that it's the reverse order of the human souls. We get Chara's equipment last for red, and Yellow's just before that. In this case the next soul mode would be green for the stained apron/burnt pan. In any case, I do like your inclusion of chess theory into this, but I wonder... How do you think the yellow mode matches Queen or red mode King?

[@accirax6116]

@@guiltyflygon Yeah, unfortunately that's where the "I don't know exactly where this would fit in" comes back... :( I think the best argument would be that yellow DOESN'T fit Queen, because Queen never uses yellow in her attacks (as far as I remember, sorry if I'm getting this wrong). King and Queen both get the red heart because both pieces can move in any direction, even if the Queen obviously has a much greater range. I think you said in the video that secret bosses like Spamton would be pawns (or maybe it was mini bosses?). That sort of lines up with the yellow mode only being able to shoot directly forward, as that's the only direction in which pawns can move. However, in that case, if Jevil is also meant to be a pawn, I don't know why his fight wouldn't have been in yellow mode, too. Appealing to his sense of chaos, maybe...? But, if ALL of the secret bosses are meant to be pawns, I don't think that all of the secret bosses would be fought in the yellow mode, either. It might work if you use the concept you brought up of there being two kinds of each piece, though? If you had, for instance, Mike and Tenna, and one of them was the main boss and one the secret boss, then you could have a (let's say) purple boss fight and secret boss fight. Similarly, if the main trio fights against the knight as the main boss of chapter 4, then maybe the secret boss would also be a knight. It'd be kind of a loss to not have a main boss fight use the yellow mode, though. I haven't played Deltarune in a while, so I didn't think this through a whole lot. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Chapter 3 shows us!

[@embryodemocracy1275]

I wish being a member meant I could like this video with 5 likes

[@LiMe251]

20:00 Undyne has done something, she arrested the Wet Nose Bandits.

[@guiltyflygon]

Well, to quote from one of the bandits: * We're the infamous dog-burgulars, The Wet-Nose Bandits. * (We were getting ready to sneak into that big house over the holidays...) * When we were attacked from the shadows, by something MERCILESS! * (Fearing for our lives, we all ran right into Officer Undyne's warm, loving arms...) * And she suplexed us all into the snow with our tails hanging in the air. * (Now we're in jail, but at least we're alive...) So she did technically arrest them, but she didn't really do any work for it lol. They kind of gave themselves up. Less concrete but still a thing, it's somewhat implied that the "big house" they're talking about is the Holiday house, and that the merciless foe they faced therefore may have been the mayor herself which kind of adds to what I was saying haha. I talked about this in a different video I think, so my bad for not saying it here.

[@LiMe251]

@@guiltyflygon Fair enough.

[@grianjuju9438]

18:10 toby mentioned that "lost girl" motif or whatever the other song was, is not noelle's theme

[@guiltyflygon]

I know, but given the title, the sweepstakes, and where it's used in CH2, I feel like it is tied to the Holidays loss of Dess. I mean, the name of the song is "Lost Girl" after all. That's kind of what I was getting at in the video. It would also tie into the sneaking scene if the mayor is trying to protect other children from danger, like she couldn't for her own daughter, so I think it kind of fits.

[@grianjuju9438]

@@guiltyflygon it is possible considering they are neighbors.

[@balookingdomyt]

While I may not entirely agree with the whole of your theory, I do believe that there is a lot of truth in there. You shared a lot of concepts that I have never considered before, and it's kinda changed the way I've been thinking about Chapter 3 and beyond. Good work here!

[@catticus6637]

the mayor holiday theory is interesting, ive never really thought about that

[@emmiccino528]

I still don't really buy into chess theory honestly. I think it'd be strange to keep up the motif that King and Queen have set simply because- King and Queen don't seem relevant to the overarching story. Their plotlines seem condensed into their chapters. That and two other probably better reasons: Firstly, the bosses have to fall in line with their dark worlds, right? King was a physical item and Queen, a piece of software. I don't see how chess would fit into a TV dark world. You could say that there may be a chess board somewhere in the Dreemurr house, but I don't think that's a very good answer. Secondly... King and Queen are playing cards, not chess pieces. I understand the idea behind how they represent their respective chess pieces in their actions, but for one- King is very blatantly a card. The name Card Castle, everybody inside Card Castle being undeniably a playing card from the other three kings to "Dark Jack" Lancer to Jevil and Rouxls, they're cards through and through. Since Queen has a similar design and name, I'd say it's more likely she's meant to be some kind of card game. Doesn't she even mention Solitaire at some point? And even Spamton fits better into the card motif as the Jack is sometimes instead called the Knave. Anyway, I just think chess theory is flimsy at best. I get it's hard to theorize the game, and I'm not like genuinely SEETHING, it just kinda gets my brain in debate mode when I hear about it lol. I've been enjoying your theories recently!

[@ethanhawksley9097]

If the snowgrave for Toriel is her becoming even more protective, then the Birdley could be Kris doing something to make the cop (or whoever comes through the door) have to attack Kris

[@williamswonderland3636]

3:30. Wait a green room isn't a changeling room its usually a meeting room or relaxation and even for rehearsals if you don't have the extra space sure you theoretically could change in a green room but it would be too convoluted to be were you get ready for your next show

[@guiltyflygon]

Well, okay. Not a changing room necessarily but, at least in my limited theater experience, if a person is playing multiple roles in a show the green room is usually where they change costume to get back on stage quickly, which is sort of what I was getting at with it being a shop.

[@williamswonderland3636]

@@guiltyflygon interesting I sapoes it depends on your layout

[@bananaspice1967]

One must ponder the orb😊

[@insertnamehere1398]

A good way to determine plotpoints is to determine what homestuck motifs toby wants to throw in. like how the True final boss theme is shaping up to be a reprisal of penumbra phantasm

[@minestar2247]

12:20 unlike the bishop, who would probably be the opposite, only funny buisness

[@minestar2247]

15:50 nah, the power of friendship is way better than strengh

[@Harlegeist]

DELTARUNE CONTENT DELTARUNE CONTENT

[@georgewebb9074]

Nice predicting

[@juanj3351]

it be funny if the boss is basically skynet but like with a face

[@QSBraWQ]

so the main boss will be double mr jawsum from omori maybe some inspiration to either side?

[@pomapelo]

prediction: descend by toby fox (homestuck) boss theme. I am watching your reading and when i saw that i was like oh yeah this is mikes theme squiggles and everything

[@pomapelo]

to be fair i dont think descend in specific will be used but i think it will match the vibes of the final fight

[@TheSkyGuy77]

KZbin didn't notify me 😢 But great video

[@windwakersolos]

I think a jevil and spamton dating Sim will be in chapter 3

[@guiltyflygon]

Lol, if only

[@TheSoulCalledZuzia]

i hope so

[@windwakersolos]

Well we got spamton love center that's close enough

[@TheGlenn8]

Kris is the knight tho :P

[@conflictinmybrain2019]

i actually dont think chapter 3 is going to have a weird route. i think it is something tied solely to noelle

[@FranciTheGamer]

Can the release date be predicted lol

[@guiltyflygon]

I would say maybe at the end of this year? Given the dev updates saying chapter 3 is done and Toby has done a lot to try to speed up development. (hiring a producer, more team members, etc.) Being safe though expect 2025 :)

[@AlphaPizzadog]

honestly i dont think adults will be able to access dark worlds. you know, whimsical neverland rules! which means if you disappear overnight, nobody is going to believe you when you tell them where you went >:D

[@guiltyflygon]

Could have crazy implications for chapter 3 if true, but I'm not sure it'd be wise to miss the chance to develop Kris and Toriel's relationship in the dark world. I guess we'll see!

[@grianjuju9438]

26:15 so far i'm suprised you didn't include asgore as a possibility for being there, he might be her ex but he was also a police man, and undyne could have contacted asgore to check on his family.

[@guiltyflygon]

If Toriel didn't specifically say: * Officer...? Officer...? * Thank goodness, I finally got through... * I thought I saw someone prowling around outside... * And when I checked our car-- * The tires... looked like they'd been slashed. * Officer, if you could please come over... * You will? Soon? Thank you... I might have wondered about it, but given how specific she is about it being an officer I doubt it. Asgore did get kicked off the force after all, and I'm pretty sure Toriel would not default to calling him by his former title instead of name. Like, if it was: * ..? Are you there..? * Thank goodness, I finally got through... * I thought I saw someone prowling around outside... * And when I checked our car-- * The tires... looked like they'd been slashed. * Yes... If you could please come over... * You will? Soon? Thank you... I'd believe it, but that would also have opened it up for anybody lol. It would make the chapter more interesting for sure though.

[@grianjuju9438]

@@guiltyflygon i didn't meant the officer she called being asgore, but a person that might have been contacted by toriel might have called asgore to check on them considering he's her ex and Toriel might be the kind of person to call police often, let's remember that nothing interesting or bad has been happening in the home town.

[@TheGlenn8]

Asgore would also come running over at the speed of sound. It wouldn't take him till everyone is asleep to show up. He's still madly in love with Toriel after all, and Kris is still his kid. He wouldn't be so relaxed about the situation.