Predicting Deltarune's MAIN VILLAIN | Deltarune Theory and Discussion | Antagonist Video Essay

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The Deltarune fanbase has been speculating for years who the main villain of the game could be. When we reach Deltarune Chapter 7, who will we be facing off against? Is it as simple as "The Titans?" Could it really be the mysteryman himself, W. D. Gaster? Could it possibly be Sans? In this video essay and theory, I discuss what makes a good antagonist in fiction, and then use that knowledge to give my four official predictions as to who the main antagonist of Deltarune is.
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#deltarune #deltarunechapter2 #undertale

[@bradoreman2510]

Sans is the main antagonist, we must find a way to travel back in time in order to stop him from befriending our mother.

[@Ray-op7xc]

HELP HAHAHAH

[@bitchboymghee]

The whole game just turns into kris trying very hard to prevent sans from gaining the honest right to make dad jokes

[@bradoreman2510]

@Kyryl yes You have reached the Hotline for Idiot Babies

[@sogmeister]

this comments blew my brains out when "back in time to the first thanksgiving" wasnt the joke, bravo.

[@jaimefatou9211]

That means he is our dad?

[@bezel95]

Everyone loves Nubert. Which is why its betrayal and reveal as the main villain is so shocking.

[@jacobcooper4372]

Don't put that out there... I don't think i could live in a world with evil nubert!

[@tapioca2200]

No, we love nubert

[@sindrevangenrobberstad2889]

No, I refuse! Nubert's my man >:(

[@Someowne]

i hate nubert

[@Tulip_bip]

if nubert's evil, then i'm evil......

[@doom64hunter]

By your own criteria, the most likely main antagonist is Noelle. Here's why: 1. Motive: Noelle's life is miserable. Her dad is dying, her mother doesn't care about her, and her sister went missing. She comes to enjoy dark fountains as escapism in Chapter 2, and ends up thinking the experience was just a dream. Moreover, she is shown to cast spells she does not know about, forget events that happen right before her eyes. Something weird is up with her either way. She has all the reason in the world to open them. 2. Means to Defeat Protagonist: Stated to be incredibly strong, able to open dark fountains and initiate the roaring. She is the only character who has so far been able to kill another in the game. Clearly, she is the most threatening entity in the game. 3. Important to the Story: Noelle is absolutely central to the story. She is the main focus of Chapter 2 and the Spamton Sweepstakes, and implied to be of great importance in later chapters too. She ties into the religious themes, themes of escapism, themes of friendship and relationships. She is tied to Dess, to Gaster, and to ICE-E, all of which are big open mysteries. She is one of the only 3 characters referred to as "wonderful" in the intro survey, yet is not part of the heroes of legend. 4. Connection to the Protagonist: She is a childhood friend of Kris, and has a strong crush on Susie. Unusually, it is implied that Ralsei dislikes her -- and she actually takes the same role of mage as him. As revealed by the Sweepstakes, she has been contacted by Gaster, and is manipulated personally by the Player. All boxes are checked. 5. Core belief system: Ralsei believes that there needs to be balance between light and dark, otherwise the world will be destroyed. Noelle however would prefer to escape reality, and live in the dark worlds, as stated by her in Chapter 2, and even manages to convince the other Lightners of this. Her belief fundamentally clashes with that of Ralsei, yet has its own merits. And again, her character ties into the religious themes, the conflict between us and Kris, the themes of escapism, themes of friendship and relationships. She ties into the theme of freedom, of control, and the theme of pre-destiny, by her being the only way we can change our route in Chapter 2. And yes, she is even referred to as "Angel" whom the heroes of legend are supposed to oppose. She is a literal Jesus figure, being crucified at the end of Chapter 2 by Queen, while Kris, Ralsei and Susie (as well as Gaster) are all referred to as some variation of evil, beasts, dragons, demons and devils -- it is incredibly on-the-nose. Her heaven, the "Angel's Heaven", are the dark worlds we close. By banishing the Angel's heaven, we destroy her means of escapism.

[@spookydood5500]

Normally I'd agree, however I left her out because of the means. Yes, she will probably be able to beat the fun gang, but so far she hasn't been able to stand up to the soul. The soul is the true protagonist, and even in Snowgrave she is completely under our control. There's still a chance she'll eventually rebel against us, but this video is solely based on what we know now. Otherwise, yeah, she definitely could be.

[@auramaster2068]

Where does the beasts dragons devils stuff come from in the game? I don’t remember seeing anything like that.

[@chongwillson972]

@@auramaster2068 susie is a dragon , ralsei actually has many references to religion figures like certain devils.

[@runeanonymous9760]

@@chongwillson972 boss monsters in general resemble Baphomet greatly- they don’t have wings, but not all depictions of Baphomet do. In the official Storyshift, Boss Monsters are still called as such (and still the only ones with powerful SOULS), but if I was to change things I would refer to them as “Baphomets”

[@doom64hunter]

I actually just remembered that Susie is constantly referred to as "Beast" throughout Chapter 1 by the Darkners she hurt. Given that the number 666 is the "number of the beast" and is always tied to Gaster in these games, gives a lot of ammo to the theory that Gaster is on the party's side, somehow.

[@kenny_eats_many]

Batman is the knight **CONFIRMED**

[@spookydood5500]

The DARK Knight!!😆

[@michaelkindt3288]

The knight is an anthropomorphic bat.

[@joewilliams-un8vu]

Wait the dark knight? I’ve seen enough chess theory to know that Kris is one of the two good knights, does this mean that Batman is one of the dark knights?!?

[@kenny_eats_many]

@@joewilliams-un8vu susie is dark knight

[@kenny_eats_many]

@@joewilliams-un8vu susie is batman *confirmed??*

[@jester8379]

To me, the presentation of the Titans makes them feel more like forces of nature than actual characters, so it had never really crossed my mind to consider them as potential antagonists.

[@shockmaster0792]

The main antagonist would use them as the tool for destruction yeah. They wouldn’t make sense to be the antagonist, just the threat.

[@cjaymeme]

Part of me believes that Toby wouldn't just *give* us Gaster in the end because that's too obvious, but another part of me knows that he knows that we've been waiting for Gaster to be fully realized in game for years and would try to make it satisfying. In other words, I can't wait for Chapter 7's secret boss fight that you can only access when you have all the shadow crystals where Deltarune OST 666: YOU FORGOT plays and you battle a 3/4 angle version of the Mystery Man sprite.

[@blackbloom8552]

I think gaster lack much of what would be needed to be a good antagonist, but i do expect him to finally make his appearance at the tail-end of the game. Toby fox love to subvert expectations, so i expect that he ll be much of the same with gaster and the character will end up playing quite the unexpected role.

[@finnvaneekelen4966]

Ok but YOU FORGOT is probably the best name for a gaster battle theme ive ever heard

[@BitrateBilly]

we will 100% encounter gaster, we just wont get all the context as to who tf he is, we will have to solve his story by analyzing the secret bosses, toby said that deltarune will provide context on a character we have all been wanting to know more about, that character would obviously be the mystery man himself, although i wouldnt be surprised if the boss fight was as insane as photoshop floweys in terms of visuals, given what gaster is capable of.

[@duckman9327]

make the name of the song “you forgor” instead and im in

[@finnvaneekelen4966]

@@BitrateBilly toby pulls a fast one and this character he talks about is like, napstablook or something (i whould be up for it)

[@ElRectalo]

Funny enough, while you were talking about "what makes a good antagonist" i thought to myself "Wait, isn't susie like... a perfect antagonist?". But I kinda thought about an opposite approach: what if it's WE(kris/soul) who turns out to be not that good, and susie, who became just a great, good person, will be forced to stop us? Kind of like sans in undertale. Except susie will be closer to papyrus in her belief: she will believe that our intentions are good untill the very end.

[@ElRectalo]

Actually, that may nicely tie up the whole "two paths, one ending" shenanigans. If we are playing good guys, susie will break and turn evil because everything you said in your video. Otherwise, if we turn evil, susie will make the effort needed to stop us.

[@subthenub6668]

After much research, I know who it is. It's not Ralsei, not Kris, Not Susie, Noelle, Gaster or heck, even Lancer. The true villain is the strongest creature in every universe, the one who brought us the most pain. After centuries of loneliness and neglect, this creature decided to become the villain. I hope I am incorrect, because if I'm right, then we have no hope in beating it. That's right. Jerry returns.

[@outerspaceproduction]

no. No. NO 😱😭

[@DiamondPizza1]

NOT JERRY! ANYONE BUY JERRY, NOOO!

[@herosshade2247]

The thing about Toby Fox's writing is that his twist are actually impossible to predict. Take Flowey, for example. When you first meet him you know that something is up, but you would never know his origins as a flower injected with Determination AND that he's Asriel, because you would have to beat the game more than once to know these things. He doesn't give that information away until the reveal, so there's no way to know beforehand. We can only go off of what we know, but Toby doesn't work that way. It can only be something we don't know that he is withholding from us until the end.

[@aykarain]

actually, if you knew Asgore wouldnt be the final, then Flowey would be the only other it could be... unless you count asriel as a different person for some reason

[@aykarain]

actually, if you knew Asgore wouldnt be the final, then Flowey would be the only other it could be... unless you count asriel as a different person for some reason

[@belly990]

the best argument was Susie's music not being completely full and you're right it feels like a lite version of what its suppose to be. It even had me saying "damn" cause its kinda true

[@SomeCatFromFrance]

While playing Susie's theme on the keyboard I noticed that her theme can be used in various situations, if modified correctly. Lost girl (Noelle's dw theme) also is very empty, which could be on purpose because of the absence of Dess, Rudy and her mother, but idk

[@ZeroKay]

You are wrong. Starwalker is the final villain, as there are many hints to such a thing. As the story progresses, it becomes increasingly clear that "Starwalker" is the ultimate villain. Not only do they possess immense power and a ruthless streak, but they also have a personal vendetta against Ralsei. Their actions and motivations are driven by a desire for revenge, making them a formidable and dangerous opponent. Additionally, clues and foreshadowing throughout the story point to "Starwalker" as the final villain, adding to the theory that they are the ultimate antagonist. Overall, "Starwalker" is the perfect candidate for the final villain due to their power, motivation, and foreshadowing in the story.

[@LesbianWeedBrownie]

I love how one of your points is "clues and foreshadowing pointing towards "Starwalker as the final villain" with zero examples LOL. Comedy gold!

[@Unethical2023]

ZeroKay is a Deltarune fan. You love to see it.

[@absollnk]

This comment is Pissing me off...

[@Eterco]

I don't know who Starwalker is, but my bitter rage towards them for being so antagonistic is proof that they are an amazing villain that will go down in history

[@nicholasaugello2534]

10/10

[@gonerdenji]

I like to think that the Titans or the Angel will happen to them the same as Asgore. We will fight them and even if we convince them to become good, the main antagonist will finish them off and make their appearance. This antagonist could have small clues throughout history where the most observant will feel satisfied to be right. I have a little theory that the goal of the final antagonist will be to make THEIR decisions matter even if it means killing people.

[@gonerdenji]

I dismiss Gaster as an antagonist because the casual player probably doesn't know about gaster and besides that he hasn't shown an attitude against the Lightners, he tells them wonderful in the name selector.

[@whocaresaboutthename6850]

@@gonerdenji Gaster is probably gonna be a secret boss not the main villain

[@lbsc1201]

The obvious candidate for the Asgore role in Deltarune is the Knight.

[@gonerdenji]

@@lbsc1201 I do not mean that the titans or the angel have the role of asgore, I mean that the same situation could happen to them nothing else

[@jettlucashayes8508]

nah the titans are the nyx (persona 3) of the game and the knight will be like the true culprit from persona 4

[@cosmicspacething3474]

I think Kris will be the final antagonist, but in the Weird route specifically. If you pay attention they actively try to stop you from completing the game. They’re actively preventing you from seeing Susie and Noelle in fear of one of them getting hurt, or worse. And at the end of the Spamton fight it’s YOU who calls Noelle, Kris likely would rather die than be the means of killing everyone they know, and love. In the normal/pacifist route they aren’t actively trying to stop you from completing the game, but instead they’re just trying to just do their own thing. At least I think so…

[@hedgehogsonic11]

I think you're partially right with Kris, Susie, and Ralsei but not quite from the perspective described. I think that *we* are going to be the final antagonist. Kris has plenty of reason to resist us, and plenty of precedent for it. Susie is very willing to fight against or completely sidestep our authority and has done so multiple times. Ralsei, outside of Kris and potentially Spamton, is the only one actively aware of us and seems to be aware of the controls of the game, and makes it a point to talk to Kris when we're not around. We're connected to our protagonists, debatably being the protagonist ourselves or being in direct/indirect control of them. The final boss being the player ties together *our* vs *their* choices mattering, the theme of control, and the morality of escapism. Our incredible presence throughout the story and our tenured tie to Kris, Ralsei, Susie, Noelle, and potentially Gaster gives us plenty of narrative significance. As for means, we've proven to be powerful strategists and reliable dodgers of any attacks that come our way, felling all foes who have crossed our path yet. It also doesn't seem like Kris can act too well on their own. Motive could vary. Perhaps we fail or for some reason Kris has decided they're completely done with us, rips us away, and the soul does battle with the party. Perhaps we choose to fight the party because we learn information they do not know and can act on the dramatic irony. Perhaps we simply don't want the game to end, the Roaring to occur, the prophecy to be completed, the week to loop, to make a hard or impossible choice, etc. and we have no choice but to sever our ties to Kris and do battle. I don't know whether in such a situation we would be made to play as the three heroes or as the soul, but I think a large part of the appeal to Undertale was the inherent subversion of standard RPG tropes where you don't have to kill anybody. To now subvert the trope of a found family group of teenagers fighting a god at the end of the world, *YOU* are now a god of sorts fighting a found family group of teenagers at the end of a world that you know was never real to you sounds like a perfectly fitting twist. Additionally, I feel like Snowgrave's conclusion, particularly at the end of the Neo Spamton fight, cements this, as we see Kris call for their party members and no one came to their aid, however, *WE* call for Nicole, whose voice she recognizes as the one that commanded her, and she appears. I feel like if we the player continue to take advantage of the lack of control Kris has, and the rare absence of Susie and Ralsei, we can rather maliciously develop our own party of friends to oppose the three heroes, friends who, in a better timeline, may aid the three heroes in resisting us. Having us end up being the final boss reconciles the seeming discrepancy between the notion of there being one ending and our choices not mattering, yet having radically altering routes of gameplay and narrative. It doesn't matter because those characters will join the fight anyway, but either for you or against you, and it's one ending in that we are the final boss, and presumably may be defeated somehow. Perhaps we are completely booted from Kris, or from the world of Deltarune, perhaps Kris saves back over our file in their own name, or we are forced into the Goner. I don't know, I'm largely throwing thoughts at the wall having finished the video, but I thoroughly believe that this checks every box, ties up every loose end or discrepancy, acknowledges certain build-ups, and leaves plenty of wiggle room for adjustment, while completely matching Toby's MO. But hey, who knows?

[@hedgehogsonic11]

I don't wanna directly tie it back to Chara (even though we all know that Chara was intended to have your name for a reason and is the narrator of Undertale) because at the very end of Genocide, Chara regards you as a seperate entity to them, they being the feeling you get when you kill, and grow stronger. Noelle indirectly reflects this in her own dialogue in Snowgrave. I feel like a lot of people unduly put blame on Chara for the genocide run, because whether you're doing genocide, or even if it's a perfect pacifist ending, *you're* still the one in control of Frisk. By cutting out the middle person and making us directly exist in this world, hijacking an established character with their own traits and ideals, Deltarune makes us question the morality in exercising our choices, morally sound or otherwise, on Kris. To argue that such complete control is either right or wrong is a wonderful clash of ideals that I feel will only be represented fully if Kris fights us, and I believe that in doing so they'd have the backing of Susie and Ralsei. It just feels like a proper evolution of UT's narrative, while honoring the unique attributes DR has brought to the table. There's no chance of a Necron-esque feeling, because we've been here the whole time, our use or abuse of power over this world has been called into question since 2015, and even if you haven't played Undertale, or haven't been secret hunting all through Deltarune, you will have witnessed multiple scenes where Kris outright dispels you to act of their own accord, and generate your own feelings about that. Something satisfying and scintillating all around, and not just to theorycrafters, who we must remember don't make up all or even most of the game's audience. I am sure that no matter what happens, the conclusion will be grand and satisfactory, but I would love to see this angle in particular play out.

[@ajdndbdjbdj]

Ok champ chill its just a game

[@jackeroni216]

i could see this happening, although i dont think toby would make it impossible for us to be friends with everyone.

[@Brandon-xc2pk]

honestly we are the protag and kris is the antag, we play as the heart in deltarune which is controlling kris, kris tries to throw us away from us cleary showing he does want to be separated, there could also be another antag and we and kris put aside out differences to make the world a better place

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

What if the player wants Kris to have freedom? Why can't we? It becomes a completely arbitrary "You don't have that option" and frustrating. A lot of people know Kris is a person and don't want to take away their freedom. We as the player have 0 incentive to be the final antagonist except for those people who do the weird route. For this to work we need to see something that Kris did not such as Noelle being evil of her own volition but even then this makes her the true antagonist. Unless this game exists to call out people on the principle of "Well enough people did the geno route so they all are held accountable" it starts to fall apart.

[@pteroid11]

I just had a weird thought. What if the titans have been around the whole time? What if we spend the whole game gathering them into castle town in an easily contained form? What if…they’re Lancer and his family? The titans are shown as having bright glowing lights in their eye region, Lancer and pals all have black voids in those areas with only queen being only a small exception with her occasional text. It could be we’re being tricked into gathering them all up in one spot or Ralsei is attempting to get us to jail them in a gilded cage while they remain unaware of their true nature, accidentally playing into the villain’s true plan of unleashing them all at the same time. I dunno, food for thought.

[@andygiraldo7898]

1. Queen is not part of Lancer’s family, she just knows King and arbitrarily adopted Lancer 2. How a computer, and 2 cards would turn into a giant thing, and would it mean that every fountain that is created has a Lancer’s “family” member? And would it mean too that the card kingdom fountain has 2 titans? 3. And if the roaring happens when at least 3 fountains are created does it means that Lancer automatically turns into a titan when it happens? 4. Ralsei jailed king because he is a jerk, and Lancer actually has eyes, he shows the shadows in the eyes might be some kind of mask, same to King, Queen’s black eyes is probably because computer screen

[@strelitziamystery21]

I think I saw some fandub comic thing on KZbin once and it was about Susie and Kris hanging out like at Park or something. It was made before chapter 2 came out but it about Kris's lack of control. Kris expresses how they feel and Susie tries to understand but after a minute or two the SOUL appears and Kris freaks out and has a panic attack and tries to stab themself so they would be under its control. Susie stops them because she doesn't understand what's going about the heart or why Kris has a knife. But the soul takes over and Susie realises that something is clearly wrong. "Kris" goes back to default and doesn't know about the knife incident and asks if they want to go on a dark world adventure with them, which was what Susie wanted earlier. But she says that they will do it tomorrow and starts to scheme behind "Kris's" back. At the end Susie says that she'll go back to dark world to find answers to help Kris. I'm bringing this up because I believe this kind of idea is the best way to make Susie the antagonist. We make Susie care about Kris and it bites the Player in the butt when Susie turns against the player to save Kris. WE made her a better person and now WE pay the price as long as WE, the Player, continue to have Kris on our strings. She now has friends and she defies the players choices already. What's stopping her from outright turning violent to the Player once she's aware of US and what WE are doing to Kris? She might Battle the Heart Undertale style even just to Kill the Player Soul instead of how Deltarune Battles which hurt the body too. Susie was referenced in Undertale so...

[@hugolloyd2707]

I really don't understand why no one is saying it could be Asriel. The game starts with us learning that he'll be coming to visit in 7 days, and the chapter select reflects this. The first shot we see is a room comparing him to Kris. A ton of dialogue describes the relationship between Kris and Asriel, painting Asriel in a bright light and Kris in a bad light. We learn that the first portal was opened in the room Asriel used to play with Kris in. Asriel is the PERFECT antagonist for Deltarune. Kris struggles with maturity and taking initiative, whereas Asriel already has his life mapped out. Asriel also "abandoned" Kris in a sense (Not saying that's wrong or anything; just bad in Kris' perspective). Asriel is likely the reason Kris feels the need to act out to get attention. The reason they put control in someone else's hands in the first place. Gaster may be the one that put us in control of Kris, but Kris is allowing us to take control willingly, save for when they feel comfortable doing things on their own, or find it necessary. Last point. Ralsei almost definitely already knew Kris before we met him. He knows what Kris was supposed to look like, he talks to Kris about things he doesn't wants us knowing about, and he tries to lead us into doing things a way that falls in line with how we would expect someone like Kris to want to act; for example, being nice to people to make friends. He would have no motive to do so if his real goal was simply to close the portals. Ralsei also clearly has a connection to Asriel in the way of looks and in his name being an anagram to Asriel. Either he is Asriel, or he was created to mimic how Kris remembers/wants to remember Asriel. Why are we being introduced to a character with so many parallels to Asriel so early if not to point our focus towards him and make comparisons? Besides, what bigger reveal could there be than the big brother that's been set up since the first few lines of dialogue, who we're told is perfect and delightful to be around, actually being a major problem for the protagonist? From what we know, Asriel would carry Kris to school, get them hot chocolate, as well as a bunch of other quips that suggests that Asriel has an intense feeling of responsibility. Isn't it clear that he's been smothering Kris? And wouldn't it make perfect sense that that smothering is what's going to push Kris to stand on their own two feet and live their own life instead of hoping their brother or someone else will just fight all their battles for them, like we've been doing the whole game?

[@mylam658]

smart

[@gonerdenji]

I would like to ask your opinion about the vessel as the main antagonist We know that the vessel has a mind since we literally make its mind like ours and the voice clarifies that the vessel will not listen to our opinion that we have about it. The vessel is the definition that your decisions do not matter, since its creation it was created for a purpose and they discarded it as soon as it was created, all this without your decisions mattering

[@blackbloom8552]

The vessel is definately gonna play a major role, but i dont think there any buildup for them being the main vilain yet. My personal theory was that they will be the main antagonist of chapter 6 (the pawn according to chess theory) and will be a major element of what leads into the finale of the game.

[@sarafontanini7051]

i mean it'd be kidna lame for the main antagonist to jsut be arbitrarily made by us and thus not really have any ties to anything beyond that. Plusthere's implications that stuff's been going on for a while, not jsut when we took control of kris, so the timeline wouldn't relaly fit. jsut ym opinion.

[@azure4622]

It'd be cool if we could get back our vessle and then kris stops trying to end us

[@QuasarVeeTheCharaAndFranLover]

I think the vessel will have barely, if not NO narrative importance. If we start a new file in chapter 2, the game doesn't even ask you to make a vessel at ALL.

[@rayjoa888]

The only probleam i have with the "Gaster was the one behind all", is that someone who has not found any of his easter eggs or checked any of the theories, could be another Necron case for them. In Undertale, is not obligatory to investigate about Gaster, and none of the main characters mention him. But someone can argue that "Deltarune is made for people who have played Undertale", subtly saying that, even if not a sequel, is made for people who were invested in UT, and I can understand that. I hope that, if that's the case, Gaster has a lot of build up in this new universe. Kris and/or Susie are more appealing, i think. Kris seems to want freedom at all cast, and the one who's playing does not allow that. And Susie is all about contradict the "powers" of the player, so when she finds out, would be completely against the control that you are exercising to this world. Excellent video!

[@Patrick11nf]

While I don't think Gaster will be the main antagonist, I do believe he is behind a lot of things happening in Deltarune. Some counterpoints: - As you said, Gaster can still get a lot of build up in Deltarune. We're still only at chapter 2 after all. - Gaster may actually be more of a Deltarune universe character than an Undertale universe character, just like the theories about how UT Sans may be from Deltarune. Gaster is very much a secret in Undertale, but Gaster's influence in Deltarune is much more obvious. Also, I think Toby stated in an interview that he had the idea for Deltarune before he made Undertale. With how Gaster and the goners in UT also foreshadow Deltarune, Gaster may very well be a leftover/scrapped character he had planned for Deltarune from the start.

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

This is a very good point, at best Gaster should be the secret boss of the Shadow Crystals or a supporting character. Though the game in Ch2 does point to the room in between there is implication Toby is trying to remedy this. It is still very easy to miss and you miss it in Snow Grave. Gaster would be very much identical to Necron. EGG even mirroring the Knight's movement if you translate it to Wingdings. Perhaps all of this is just bait so people think it is Gaster.

[@Patrick11nf]

@@Buglin_Burger7878 Personally, I've always thought the EGG => Knight thing the fanbase came up with may just be a coincidence. Toby is already hinting at the true meaning behind the eggs in the Spamton Sweepstakes.

[@blackbloom8552]

I think gaster would make the most sense as that one weird character that comes at the 11th hour to provide some answers, only to vanish into the darkness again.

[@birdflox1337]

My theory is that Gaster will try to help us with our quests for a while, however his ultimate goals go against our own and we'll eventually have to defy him.

[@randomstuffthatentertainsy6294]

Ralsei's legend is at least partially true because if you refuse to listen to it then lancer will say "what you don't recognize me, the teardrop shaped kid from the prophecy"

[@Fluffkitscripts]

The knight has one factor that confounds their ranking- they have a secret identity. We could have a moment like with uncle Aaron in spider-verse, where the antagonist only clicks when the two characters become understood as one.

[@pustota7254]

The reason Ralsei is focusing on Susie too much is because the theme of Deltarune is about EVERYONE having a crush on Susie.

[@gopherthegold8722]

Susie is basically the Isekai protagonist and we’re just along for the ride

[@MadotsukiGaming]

Talking about the titans, I have a belief they'll either end up being secret bosses or prefinal bosses. Kinda like Porky in Mother 3. As for the main antagonists, I don't have a clue lol but I would be emotionally devastated if Susie ended up being it.

[@StarLightShadows]

I also think Gaster is almost certain to be the true villain of Deltarune, and one of my biggest reasons actually directly counters what you said was an oddity in the theory. While it's not very clear without going into a deep dive of the game's lore, Gaster isn't nearly as much of a good guy as he seems to be. He's only _manipulating_ us into believing he is. Undertale already told us to beware of The Man who speaks in hands. He's characterized as creepy and not to be taken lightly, and, as you said, with otherworldly presence we have little way to understand. He's associated with the demonic number 6, And he also seems to have an interest in what can only be described as an all-consuming darkness. (As depicted in Entry number 17.) Everything regarding him in Undertale seems to paint him as a true eldritch horror. And Deltarune continues this. One of his biggest roles in Deltarune is his implicit role in the Secret Bosses' stories. Both Jevil and Spamton seem to have been contacted by Gaster, periods of contact that directly resulted in them _going insane._ But his relationship with Spamton reveals something else about his character. That he has a pension for _manipulation._ Spamton, after being "helped" by Gaster in his business practice, seems to have become some kind of metaphysical puppet. His body has changed to look like a ventriloquest dummy, and once he gains the Spamton Neo body, an array of strings appear from his body. Gaster had somehow turned Spamton into his puppet, and once he got him to do whatever he needed him to, (most likely further spreading the horrific secrets he spilled to Spamton and Jevil, given ventriloquism,) he dipped. Took everything away and left Spamton's life to go down the drain. If Gaster is known to manipulate, than it brings whole new meaning (or more importantly, encourages us to bring new scrutiny,) to the times where he seems to act uncharacteristically benevolent. In the Chapter 1 Game Over sequence, Gaster is notably non-encouraging towards one option or the other. Every other game over scene we've seen in Toby Fox's games has involved some sort of "Don't give up" statement, but Gaster's simply reads "It appears you have reached an end" with responses for each choice simply reading "Then the world is in your hands." and "then the world was covered in darkness.", as if the choice does not matter in his eyes, perhaps even as if he expects them to both lead to the same outcome. The Goner Maker is also implied to have some suspicious undertones in it by the characterization of the Soul itself. You in the video said that the protagonist is the soul, not Kris, but the game heavily implies, if not outright states, that the Soul _Is Kris's Soul._ Ralsei outright states it, Spamton outright states it, There's no evidence of more than one soul in Kris's body, yet Kris's consciousness is very clearly present, and at the beginning of the Goner Maker the soul seems to be teleported in, rather than created. Implying, that the soul we play as was _Stolen_ by Gaster, with the intent to put it into the vessel. An intent that was seemingly thwarted by someone putting the soul back into Kris's body, possibly even Kris themself. If Gaster has already established a pension for manipulation, then it seems incredibly likely that Gaster's vessel plan going through would've led to him being able to manipulate US into doing whatever he wants. But the biggest role Gaster plays in the story is what ties Gaster into the theme of the game. _Gaster wrote the prophecy._ Years before Deltarune, even years before _Undertale,_ an exerpt from the prophecy written in wing dings was posted to deltarune.com. One of the main points about the prophecy is that it tells of a calamity named the Roaring caused by all-consuming darkness. Likely the same kind of all-consuming darkness that Gaster found so interesting and seemed to have some level of control over in Entry 17. And the prophecy seems deliberately misleading by portraying the Angel's Heaven as the threat that needs to be stopped, even when the scales are tipping in favor of darkness, not light, and Jevil tells us that Hell is going to be the threat. (Connecting back to Gaster's association with 666.) Almost as if the prophecy is meant to trick the 3 heroes into stopping the one thing capable of re-balancing the scales. The prophecy isn't a prophecy, it's a master plan Gaster is manipulating into fruition. Gaster is trying to consume the Deltarune world in darkness, and to do it, He's manipulated the secret bosses, Spamton implies he's manipulated the Knight in a similar way, he tried to manipulate the player but it didn't work, and he's either manipulated Ralsei or is using Ralsei to manipulate us even after his initial attempt failed. Gaster is attempting to enforce his will across everyone involved. And on top of simple manipulation the two biggest totems he's using to do so are Destiny and Nihilism. What do destiny and nihilism have in common? They can both be used as the reasoning behind the same assertion. *_Your choices don't matter._*

[@chaosbeam4654]

I dunno. We know almost nothing about Gaster. I don’t think it’s safe to assume he’s meant to be the villain. Besides, we’re meant to banish the Angel and their Heaven, and Darkness and Dark Worlds are seen as positive things rather than frightening ones, so maybe the tropes often associated with these topics are being flipped

[@StarLightShadows]

@@chaosbeam4654 I feel like my comment proves wrong the notion that we know nothing about Gaster. Also, as I covered, while we're told we'll need to banish the Angel's heaven, (by a prophecy that most people see as very sus anyway,) we're meant to fear a calamity named the Roaring, one heavily implied by Jevil to be connect to Hell, not Heaven. So it's very likely that the tropes aren't being flipped, just that someone is trying to trick us into fighting the wrong battle. And while the Dark Worlds themselves are not portrayed as frightening, the existence of too many of them very much is. The whole problem that is threatening to cause the roaring is the imbalance of light and dark, which has its own concerning undertones based on the fact that the Castle Town Dark World can't have existed for very long, meaning something is already beyond the normal balance.

[@chaosbeam4654]

@@StarLightShadows I mean, you based your thoughts on Gaster solely off of the thought of him being an Eldritch horror. He was a scientist, after all. This is most likely an experiment of some sort. I think we would have gotten more hints about him if he was truly something to be scared of besides the whole “beware the man who speaks in hands”. Nothing points to him being malicious or on our side. Yet. I just think we shouldn’t try to pin an alignment to a guy who hasn’t even had an onscreen line yet

[@Patrick11nf]

Good summary, hard for me to argue against the theory with what we know now and as you mentioned, what Jevil said does cast some suspicion on what the roaring is. Especially confusing that the fountains are also called "holy" on multiple occasions, even if they are made of darkness. But I didn't get the same impression about the Knight, to me it seems like the Knight moves differently from Gaster and have different motives (For example, Seam implies that the "strange someone" who met Jevil appeared a long time before the Knight showed up). But to me I feel like we are following Gaster's plan currently, which goes against the Knight and the Angel. From your theories, what do you think of the idea that Ralsei is a Gaster follower/Shadow crystal holder?

[@StarLightShadows]

@@Patrick11nf Spamton directly connects "[Communion] with [Unintelligable Laughter]" to The Knight, which is Spamton-ese for having contact with Gaster, so they are implied to be connected. Plus Seam refers to both Gaster and The Knight as "strange." Gaster Follower, yes. Shadow Crystal? Most likely. I think the Shadow Crystals represent pieces of Kris's mind, clouded by darkness that represents depression and self-loathing, and Ralsei seems to be some sort of embodiment of the comparisons to Asriel that Kris has always been at the short end of, so honestly it's even possible that Ralsei doesn't just _have_ a Shadow Crystal, but rather IS one.

[@darshpatel3525]

I really do think that Gaster will be the main antagonist, and that the Knight, whoever they may be, will be a secondary antagonist of sorts. In the original Star Wars trilogy, you had Darth Vader, who was for all intents and purposes the central antagonist of Episodes 4 and 5, and then you had the Emperor, who was mentioned repeatedly in the first two movies, but who only became the central antagonist in episode 6, the third and final film in the OT. I think we may have a similar situation going into Deltarune. That's not to say that Gaster will only become the central antagonist in the final chapter at the very end of the game, or anything. I just think that the Knight might be given more of the initial spotlight in the coming chapters as we learn more about them, and then the Knight's story arc will transition into Gaster's story arc, in the same way that Darth Vader's story arc transitioned into the Emperor's time in the sun. I'm not even sure at this point if the Knight and Gaster have anything to do with each other, but I think there will be some sort of connection between the two, especially if the Knight turns out to be Kris.

[@turtlehub2731]

I want him to be the final secret boss, everything about him is ominous so being a main villain. It allows him to keep his shroud of mystery.

[@amagicalbeing7427]

I have speculated that the knight may even be opposing gaster but there's no proof for that

[@llllaurrrrrra]

It would make sense for there to be a 'main antagonise' like the knight or ralsei in a normal run, and then when you run the secret/snowgrave/etc route, you get gaster.... maybe

[@craftworded]

I think the knight will be the last shadow boss or one of the last and setup the someone that is touching things behind the scenes

[@mimmky]

The titans are more of a consecuence than a threat.

[@joshuaperry7323]

to me the titans and the roaring feel more like a goal for the antagonist then the final antagonist themselves. were way to early to know why but that's what it feels like so far to me. another way to look at it is that the roaring is a consequence for the antagonist, one he is either aware of or not.

[@Comuc]

I never considered titans as characters actually, more so as some mindless robots or henchmen that have just one goal preset in them. In this instance, the roaring

[@honestkyn718]

The titans are a force of nature from the information we have; they don't have to have motives they do it because that's what they are. They aren't the main antagonist they are what the antagonist will unleah. (presumably)

[@sarafontanini7051]

Greater Scope Villains. Not the MAIN villains but certainly the bigger thrat should they come out of the background.

[@Robot2wq]

This is a lot longer than your last videos, and you've improved quite a bit too. Nice job!

[@spookydood5500]

Thank you!

[@sogmeister]

I feel like the titans would play some role similar to the 4 giants in majoras mask, they are not a protagonist nor the antagonist, they are just doing their job.

[@spookydood5500]

Yeah, I very much agree.

[@sogmeister]

@@spookydood5500 I really liked the video man, cant wait to see more

[@krysidian]

I think it's pretty obvious that jockington will be the main antagonist. Compared to everyone else he loves sports more than everyone else and he will prove it! Legit though, really like the way you constructed this video, super easy to follow and I like your take on Susie being a potential antagonist. Also super interesting how it's possible to find a plausible and believable antagonist in basically all main characters (except lancer lol). The following chapters could really turn anyone into a potential "villain"

[@literallywhy6162]

I have a small feeling (one that could be totally off) that since the knight seems to be a lightener, maybe the titans are as well. They could be important adults in Kris’s life, that try to squash what they view as silly pretend play that Kris and Susie are “too old” for

[@SollidnitrogeN]

I disagree on the notion that King isn't a narratively important villain. While yes, he's only ever seen for the final fight, his presence is felt and made clear from very early on. We spend most of the chapter fighting Lancer, but Lancer is King's son, and the climax of his and Susie's character arcs revolves around the pressure of having to fight King, and what that *means* for the two. Furthermore, deltarune is ALL ABOUT the relationship between us and the objects/stories around us. King, being a resentful, bitter darkner serves as the PERFECT introductory antagonist for Deltarune, laying the groundwork for themes used by more complex antagonists further on.

[@pros_0143]

Hey, your susie theory actually made me have a brain aneurysm, in a good way: Susie at chapter 1 was 100% set up to be the antagonist judging by the way she acted towards Kris. Not saying she's evil, but she had an inclination towards it. Then they fall into the dark world, Kris is literally a generic figure of a hero while Susie even has spikes in her outfit, something that is usually related to evil or complicated individuals. When Ralsei explains why they were there and why they must close fountains and _wradah wradah_ Susie is like "Nah" and just goes away after Lancer's battle. In your theory you stated that Ralsei is always doing whatever makes Susie happier, while it could be his personality trait shining through his actions, I think there's a deeper meaning. Ralsei is the only one who knows about the profecy, right? Then in theory, he could change it a tiny bit, right? What if Ralsei changed the profecy so Susie, the Villain, and Kris, the Hero would join forces against a imaginary threat so Susie could get friends and don't end up as a villain? We don't know what Ralsei is, but what if he can also open dark fountains and is making these kingdoms so they can have their little adventure until Susie is satisfied? Christ's sake, he were _told_ that Kris and Susie had to study at the library and conveniently there's now a fountain in the computer room. Susie is delighted to have another adventure and Ralsei was already inside when we entered? Hell, what if the profecy isn't even real? There is a profecy, but he made this heroic one instead of a darker profecy so everything could turn out ok? *Tl;dr:* So my theory is about how Ralsei is trying to fulfil Susie as to avoid her becoming a threat. It fits since he's a pacifist, and it would be ironic since in undertale you can be a pacifist to avoid problems but here Susie will explode out of control anyways.

[@pros_0143]

Ok, so Ralsei read the profecy so many times he became infatuatwd with the characters and wanted all of them to live happy lives so he changed the plot and is actually leading the world to doom since Kris isn't getting strong enough to deal with Susie later.

[@Crimsalwaysawake]

There's one flaw in this theory. We literally SEE Kris create the second Dark World.

[@gonerdenji]

​​​​​​@@Crimsalwaysawake We only saw that they created the third dark fountain, there is evidence that certainly shows that Kris can't be the knight aka the creator of the second fountain (like their arms are short unlike the knight and it seems that Noelle and nerdly were already inside the computer room with their books opened when the second fountain was created) In addition ,who the hell shows the identity of the roaring knight after saying that any lightners could be the roaring knight and when the roaring knight was just fully introduced at the end of chapter 2? Kris being the roaring knight is a red herring

[@buzzfoster1950]

Holy shit, if this is true it could explain what ralsei was telling kris when we weren't around. If Ralsei was telling kris to be nice to susie and if he was creating dark fountains, that would explain why kris creates one at the end of chapter 2 🤯

[@buzzfoster1950]

Furthermore that could also explain why we manipulated noelle in snow grave, to make her into the ultimate weapon against susie

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

I don't know why, but my number one contender is Noelle's mom. The mysterious, implied to be abusive and controlling, mayor of the town who we've never seen before and would have easy access to the school and library (if the knight is the main villains) as well as a potential motive (disappearance of her daughter and eventual death of her husband) I really believe Noelle's mom is going to be a major part of the story

[@GeoCaesar]

I forgot i was watching a deltarune video by the end of the batman segment lol

[@Shikaku2]

13:30 You're right the main antagonists being the titans would make a boring villain with what we know as of right now, but there is another place where you've seen a titan before. It's the statue you give the umbrella to in Undertale

[@Shikaku2]

@fart It's the 4 stones on the ground. The picture of the titan has 4 "eyes", and there's 4 stones in front of the statue too

[@Shikaku2]

@tori Thinking about it, I kind of feel like we're both right. Just like the video says, having a titan with no backstory or anything would be boring as part of the story. What if something makes Asgore and even 2 more characters into a titan instead? Basically Attack on Titan.

[@danielpetersen2307]

I would like to hear more people making up crackpot theories about the discarded vessel, it doesn't get enough love

[@frederickthegreat3912]

I totally agree with you vs Susie. That song has tons of potential and an extended/ reprised version would be great for a Susie fight in a later chapter. If not for her being the main antagonist, it could be for a fight with her later on in the weird route, or something similar to that

[@nutty_rickrolled_mikey]

Vs. Susie literally has the same leit motif as another medium

[@whocaresaboutthename6850]

Susie's Genocide them qould definetily be Megalovania

[@Vivat_Veritas]

I'm a bit late but this is a great video! I'm always a fan of videos that analyse Deltarune from a thematic perspective rather than a literal one, and I like the conclusions you've made. Nice work!

[@TheShowCrow_Main_Channel]

Fantastic video. The details you mention about each candidate were really thought-provoking!

[@ericanightshade]

Nice video! Just my 2 cents Personally, I think the Angel is the Player, and [Heaven] is our real world. Makes sense to me that the secret that drives characters like Jevil insane is understanding how impossibly weak they are compared to Reality. I believe the skelebros both have 4th Wall Madness as well, all these characters handling the Truth of Angel's Heaven differently. Ralsei knows for sure. Maybe Toriel is slowly being taught by Sans... I think characters are eventually going to start talking to us directly through the game and it's going to be creepy as hell.

[@marlowepup9863]

I’m only one person, but having watched your videos just now (in chronological order), you have earned my follow, definitely, and I’m eager to see more!

[@KinokoFry]

Excellent analysis! I’ve been hoping to see a video breaking possibilities down from a narrative perspective rather than in-game logic, and I agree with a tonne here. I personally think there will be a complex mix of antagonists and antagonistic forces at play, but I think your Susie theory is particularly compelling. We can’t ignore all the themes and references pointing to her as someone whose arc will have a very critical impact. The connection to the “your choices don’t matter” line is very interesting. If Susie is let down, we know her aggressive nihilism comes back strong. I wonder if there’s a connection between Susie and Gaster?

[@catching.rainbows]

Suzie's theme is too epic to not end up being a major boss theme

[@kewlcat329]

The dark world isnt fiction, depending on how you play chapter 2, berdly can either have a nonfunctional wing in the light world if it was burned in the dark world, or he can end up in coma (he might not even just be in a coma, he might literally be dead for all we know) after you kill him with snowgrave

[@fluffcake]

Can’t wait to see the antagonists and all these choices are very convincing. My guess is either The Angel and The Knight.

[@Tramon81]

Gaster is like mega ultra apotheosic in terms of buildup, goober's been messing with us since 2016 at least. Like were going pass out, as soon as we see a single winding.

[@GodChaos333]

Just re-watching this, because it’s just interesting while I’m bored at work. One consistent thing I like about your vids. Is how you keep Toby Fox as a writer in your mind. I don’t mind the crazy crack theories (I mean I’m a huge Jaru Jaru fan), but I like how you think about what just fits that a good writer would go with. However, there is always the possibility Toby wants to subvert expectations, but it’s good to see the more sane options. Cannot wait for your next video and the big theory you teased before.

[@FL4SHK]

Congratulations, you just earned me as a subscriber. I love me some Undertale/Deltarune theories.

[@MossMothMyBeloved]

I came here for a deltarune theory but I came out with knowledge on how to write a villain.

[@grandmasoldpotroast642]

My guesses were actually the exact same as yours ; Great work on the video!

[@user-nk2pd1oo2p]

Thanks for the great theory! BIG thanks!!!

[@pantamonte]

This video is extremely cohesive and honestly it frames really well the possibilities of what direction the game could go in. I haven't even considered the possibility of Susie as a main antagonist. At most I thought that there might be a bigger "miscommunication" arc between kris and susie at some point, but I never thought that its not impossible for Susie to be set up as a bigger antagonist for the game. If this video is still around after new chapters are released I might come back to it to see if you predicted anything :0

[@powerofthec5908]

The Knight, Angel and Titans all would have pretty simple motivations and relation to the game's themes as parts of the prophecy. These beings could have the motivation of simply "The prophecy says so, therefore I must do it, I do not have a choice" This would fit in pretty well with "Your choices don't matter" being deltarune's "It's kill or be killed" in that it isn't true and we spend the whole game disproving it.

[@johanstenfelt1206]

Hm, very fair and valid points and opinions, you came up with some very interesting ideas, it’s going to be very interesting to see where everything goes.

[@darealsooski]

"Not necessarily kirby eldtrich horror suspicion" Lmfao

[@sock7896]

I read a theory that there might be chess metaphors in Deltarune, what with "knights" and "kings" and "queens"; especially with the knight being the only piece able to conduct its moves relatively unhindered as the pawns sleep. I personally think that's pretty reasonable, especially if you order the pieces by value. you get the order "king, queen, rook, bishop/knight (equal value approximately), pawn" for the six different pieces. note that there's another aspect to chess; the player, with a base value of 0. I highly suspect that chapter 3 will have the antagonist with a last name like "rook", ofc being Mike (described as a shifty sort of gameshow host by smapton, 'crook' comes to mind). chapter 4 I'd expect to be centered on the church and a bishop antagonist, chapter 5 on the knight, chapter 6 the 'pawn' and the concept of being a literal pawn under control, and chapter 7 will be the players themselves. As an aside, I'm surprised that you didn't cover the possibility of Asriel being the end antagonist; there's some background conflict between him and kris and he's due to return on the last 'day' of the game. though I suspect that Asriel and Ralsei and the prophecy will be very intertwined

[@rosepetalmoon]

3:58 I had this playing in the background and I misheard that as ‘the antagonist needs memes’

[@mullerlarco]

Another point in support of Susie being the main antagonist is that her delivering the line about kris's choices not mattering parallels Flowey delivering the "kill or be killed" line in undertale. Both seem to be the main theme for us to either prove or disprove in their respective games

[@krisspychissp]

I like to think of when the chapter gaster is in finally comes out and we FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY talk with the man who speaks in hands everyone is going to go INSANE

[@michaelhuit]

Regarding the Titans, I think they should be viewed as a Force of Nature as opposed to an outright antagonist. Antagonist suggests motive, intention, goals, etc. but the Titans don't seem to be evil or anything (going from what Ralsei's spoken of). They're simply an inevitability of the balance becoming disrupted

[@joewilliams-un8vu]

I have stated this theory before but what if some of the future antagonists are us? I mean, in Chapter 2 we can type “AGREE2ALL” and then we disobey doing whatever Queen orders us to do but the she says “I’ll still use your likeness”. What if Queen made copies of us using that data of us that agreed to be her minions and then the clones spent the whole of Chapter 2 downloading which is why we don’t see them. But if the fountain got sealed, they would be left behind and turned back into regular code right? I think perhaps the clones of Kris, Susie and Ralsei saw a shadowy figure about to seal the fountain and quickly sent an email of themselves to Kris’ computer. Then the clones got a notification that the person who sealed their own fountain, who destroyed their home was in the TV and using TV sharing, the clones make their way into Chapter 3. Queen coded the copies to go after Kris, Susie and Ralsei and to obey their Queen however, if Queen is on our side, shouldn’t the clones be on our side too? The clones don’t know that Queen is on our side and once it is revealed to them that she is, they will probably become our allies.

[@pancakes8670]

It seems as though The Knight is being built up as the main focus atm, being the one who's opening up Dark Fountains. Learning their identity seems to be what the next few chapters will be about, assuming the Knight isn't Kris. Kris would be an interesting option, making them simultaneously the Protagonist and Antagonist, being the Player Character while also creating the conflict in the story and directly opposing us the Player. However, I doubt the Knight will be the only/the final antagonist in Deltarune.

[@Sappysappster]

I just found your channel and I already fw with you through this video You made a VERY good analysis

[@thecatacombhimself]

this helped me understand how to make a good story AND deltarune's antagonist

[@sagacious03]

0:50 I'm glad you distinguish between villain & antagonist! One is an evil being, the other creates conflict for protagonists. 15:11 I agree it's unknown if The Angel exists, but it'd be an odd waste of detail & resources to include a Dark World prophecy about the Angel & not have it show up; I'd say it LIKELY exists. But it is definitely possible it doesn't exist, I agree. For example, maybe Ralsei didn't give us the complete truth or something. 16:38 I feel this is a good point. Don't recall it being brought up. To answer the question, maybe some spots or times are better for Dark Fountains? 18:12 This is a good point. Suspicious. Anyway, neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!

[@potatopowered5474]

I'd like to say something about 2:29 Sans isn't trying to save everyone, he's the only other person left (other than Asgore) there is no one else to save.

[@spookydood5500]

Well, my understanding of that battle is that Sans knows we can reset, if we have to. He pretty much tells us that he's fighting us in an attempt to make us just finally quit and reset, technically saving everyone. That's why he tries so hard to stop us, even going as far as to do nothing as his final attack, thinking we'll finally quit.

[@shademillith]

IIRC, there's still others we hadn't killed at that point. For example, Alphys. She'd gathered up many monsters and had fled.

[@salvo403]

I'm pretty sure that Sans knows that we're going to erase the entire world once we get past him, so by forcing us to quit he's in fact trying to save the entire world. Seeing as how one of the last things he says before he dies is "don't say I didn't warn you", he may also somehow know that completing the No Mercy run taints your future runs as well, so he's also probably trying to prevent the soulless Pacifist ending.

[@somelucifrostguy9208]

Honestly the situation with Kris, us, and the vessel, especially what you brought up about the Kris who Susie has spent time with is us and not the actual person, reminds me a lot of Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle by CLAMP

[@cosmeticwave]

One thing that might make Gaster an antagonist is how he messed with the lives of spamton and maybe even jevil and drove them insane. His motive might be running experiments on the world as he sees it as very very interesting

[@blackbloom8552]

Jevil and spamton turning mad and desesperate may not be gaster intention, but simply a result of the knowledge he shared with them.

[@NomadSage07]

@blackbloom8552 maybe he didn't want to be alone in the knowledge, if that makes sense. Like...I can't imagine knowing something no one else does. It would probably feel very lonely. He may have just wanted some folks to understand, so they could be in that knowledge together. But...obviously that knowledge drove them insane. I mean, Gaster itself could be insane. We really don't know anything about it.

[@blackbloom8552]

@@NomadSage07 That would be a reasonable motive.

[@drdca8263]

@@NomadSage07 Surely this depends on the kind of knowledge? Like, maybe if it was about the fundamental nature of reality or something, maybe, but being currently the only person to understand in detail like, some proof of a theorem or something, shouldn’t be so bad? Not to mention facts that are entirely inconsequential.

[@NomadSage07]

@drdca8263 fair point but like...it's heavily implied that Jevil and Spamton went insane after gaining The Knowledge. So it can't be something like "hey I found I new species of bug isn't that cool" or something. It definitely has to do with their reality.

[@user-nk2pd1oo2p]

There're too much possibilities... I should've listened to mom when she said to not watch any theories while theorising! I feel like my head is gonna blow up...

[@myhockeyuniverse930]

Great vid

[@karstb8830]

Great video but I just have to give you massive props for beating angered snowgrave spamton neo in the background

[@dragonlanceproductions6298]

I actaully REALLY like the the idea of the of The Knight being the main antagonist of the entire game.

[@NomadSage07]

Okokok listen...The discarded vessel is the knight. No, I do not have evidence. No, I will not explain it.

[@yeahhaey3059]

never would have thought that about susie damn...

[@LizardKingRequiem]

What you said ab “Vs Susie” is so true, the song has an aura of desperation in it that doesnt feel apparent in susie, yet.

[@Lucy-zv4xc]

Honestly I dont think there's going to be a villain in DELTARUNE, the same way there was no villain in UNDERTALE. Sure, Asgore is the antagonist, but he isn't villainistic- he isn't killing you to be malicious, he just needs to free his people, and when he finds out that it can be done peacefully he stops trying to hurt you altogether. All the villains we've met in DELTARUNE so far mostly fit this bill- Spade King is cruel but he has a streak of humanity in that he cares for his son. Queen is bold and brash and more goofy than evil honestly, and she only does what she does because she wants Noelle to be happy. Toby Fox tends to write all of the antagonistic characters like this, people who do bad things with a streak of humanity. The closest thing we have to a "villain" in DELTARUNE is the player itself- us, in other words- when we do the Snowgrave route.

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

But we have humanity as well. People who have done the Snowgrave route likely have a save where they didn't so they can play and do the right thing in the future. No different then Flowey in that regard.

[@tysondennis1016]

I’m betting that it’s Dess, as the Knight.

[@lizuga235]

if the main theme of deltarune surrounds some amalgamation of "Your actions and decisions are out of your control" and "Everything is predestined" and "You are a product of your nature", would the titans not be ultimate symbols of this? Mindless lumbering giants who have no motivator or goal other than their prophecized destructive nature, set in motion by some third party?

[@dimaginarylaw]

An Antagonist that defies these rules is Garou from One Punch Man. He does have narrative importance, motive and a philosophy but he doesn't have a strong connection with Saitama or the ability to reasonably defeat him

[@YugiMuto_BUTT]

You were right about the final boss in ff9 but damn it’s sucks to see ff9 slander 😔

[@uraynuke]

*D E S S* ...that's the only thing I said throughout the whole video. I really think Dess will be both The Knight and the main antagonist.

[@spookydood5500]

I purposefully didn't talk too much about Dess, haha. I think you have a very good point. I personally belive that Dess is going to play some antagonistic role, though we know wayyy too little about her to say exactly what she'll do right now. I'm probably going to end up making a Dess video, as unlike the Titans and the Angels, I think we know enough about Dess to make some compelling arguments...

[@patrickbeer2078]

Is that the kid everyone thinks sans secretly is.

[@thecubularemperor]

imagine fighting Dess on Weird Route… with Noelle. yeah I’ve said too much, bye.

[@uraynuke]

@@thecubularemperor no, that is literally what I'm talking about.

[@ajdndbdjbdj]

AGREED

[@faeattemptinggacha6578]

It's neubert, that's it, videos over.

[@manslaughter3180]

Okay, I don't really know whether Toby would like to make Susie the antagonist, still entirely a fair point on your end, but there is something you are so correct about. Lemme put it in a slightly weird way but I still vibe with it: Kris (or the amalgam of Kris + Soul) might be the protagonist, but the main character is Susie. You feel me?

[@AlexNeon97]

One thing that could add to Susie being an antagonist again would be the flavor text when using a Dark Crystal in the light world in chapter 2. Using it says "For some strange reason, for just a brief moment... You thought you saw Susie glaring at you, coldly... But when you moved the glass away, you see her looking at you, smiling and making a rude gesture" If going by the theory that the Dark Crystals in some way reflect the truth (Because when used in chapter 1's dark world it says you briefly saw toys lying around which refers to the abandoned classroom that you wake up in. And in chapter 2 it says you briefly saw the computer lab or something) and the truth in the dark worlds is that they are inside the actual locations, then maybe Susie views Kris in a cold way and is faking her friendship towards Kris in some way, and that could maybe add more motive to her turning against us or Kris later on again

[@emiliavalentino7226]

Sincerely? I see the titans more as a final attack or a possible end,or maiby even just somone's objective,thr angel just ad something that could happen,and if it starts,not even a battle. Just something that inevitably ends. The knight ad a ch5 final boss,ralsei as just somone that knows a lot more that many,anf just wants his friends to be happy untill th4 end,gaster as somone who will ever be the main thing,just that is for the ones who searchs too see,and good or bad,it may be something that even changes with your choices. For kris i still see them as good,and snowgrave the fountain still gets open to get help for toriel,and a battle against the soul is sure to happen for me... and if they making peace is an option? I am not sure. Also chess theory. The seventh piece of chess is the player. For susie? For her to go against us is something i have never really thinked about. That is rewlly interesting. Anyway,a really good video.

[@PrideBornAmadi]

Honestly that Andor spoiler wasn’t called for. I’m currently unable to get Disney+ warn people when the show is recent or newish.

[@pros_0143]

I straight up just skipped the spoilers lol

[@spookydood5500]

True, I totally missed that. Sorry! At the very least, that was a small detail, and happens in the first five minutes of the show. It's not too crazy important, mostly just a "character setup" type thing.

[@exammole4545]

We’re only viewing the antagonist under the guise that it’s a character in game. Doesn’t it make more sence for the story and for the meta that the main antagonist is the player instead? By your criteria: 1. A motive, that is to finish the game 2. A threat to Kris AND every enemy/character around him, and we physically control his actions and can bring ruin to everyone 3/4. To be important to the story and to have a connection to Kris, to both we qualify 5. To have a core belief system that ties into the game, which we do in the actions we take

[@johnman8398]

Gaster can go one of 2 ways in my mind he's the big bad of deltarune or he's going to have his own subplot that is separate from the main story but linked to it and provides extra info on specific details.

[@RatTailSoup4]

I never thought I'd be jumpscared by the dark night

[@mysteriousmask8847]

The main villian is us, the player. I haven't seen the video yet but my guess is us playing Kris.

[@SpadesofAllJacks]

By definition, a knight is a man who served his sovereign or lord as a mounted soldier in armor. I think that the Knight being called a knight implies that he is being controlled or following the orders of another character.

[@Wattson-ston]

Well, Ralsei could just be trying to make Suzy happy so that she doesn't leave the party and become evil like Chapter 1, if she leaves the party then the prophecy can't be fulfilled, he also might be talking to Kris about this in the times we change perspective. I believe Suzy will become evil for a chapter regardless of Ralseis actions and even maybe that's when Ralsei leaves too seeing as he failed to bring the prophecy or smth, dunno I am just yapping.

[@DanielTheDestroyerXD]

i do really really enjoy the idea of susie snapping and becoming an antagonist somewhere along the way, genuinely bitter about her life in a way that makes us feel pure pity regret and contempt for ourselves as the player entity within deltarune for doing this to her i think that could be a really powerful and emotional arc for the game to take and i'd LOVE to see it especially with an extended badass version of vs. susie...

[@peejar2175]

i feel like the vessel is coming back and is gonna turn out to be the under somebody else's control, and will be revealed to be the knight, since that would tick every box for a knight candidate and our vessel is saved

[@ninjajack6457]

(Remembers that Susie looks evil when you look at her with the shadow crystal) Man sheeeeeet

[@wsurviver8376]

Alright those were not the spoiler warnings I was expecting

[@thekeeper1287]

I really hope gaster is the main antagonist. He's been here since the beginning