Tsunetane Oda, Kosen Judo, early 1900s

Tsunetane Oda (小田常胤 Oda Tsunetane, March 10, 1892 - February 11, 1955) was a Judoka who was influential in the development of Kosen Judo. His correct name was Join Oda, but through a misinterpretation of the kanji 常胤 he is more commonly known as Tsunetane. Oda is credited with the invention of the Judo technique Sankaku-Jime (三角絞), which was subsequently incorporated into other disciplines, including Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Mixed Martial Arts as the 'Triangle Choke'.
Biography
Oda was born in Yamanashi Prefecture, Honshu, Japan in 1892. He started studying Judo in 1909 at the age of 17 at Numazu Kōtō Senmon Gakkō (高等専門学校 Higher Special School), joining the Kodokan the following year and receiving his 1st Dan in 1911.
Judo career
He excelled at Ne-Waza (ground work) and felt that it warranted greater emphasis than the Kodokan gave it. He worked with Hajime Isogai to develop the ground-work-emphasing style of Judo taught at the Kōtō Senmon Gakkō schools, known as Kosen Judo. It is said that Oda vision of Ne-Waza completed that of Kano's. He is credited with developing the strangulation technique Sangaku-Jime (三角絞?), in which the neck is compressed between the legs. This has been adopted into other martial arts and fighting systems including Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Mixed Martial Arts. The 'Triangle Choke' was said to be able to be applied in most directions. The 'Triangle Choke' was thought of as a sports technique rather than a battle technique in that an opponent could easily bite the groin if it were in the position.
Oda was awarded the rank of 9th Dan in Judo in 1948 and died in 1955.

[@Chadi]

Oda did not invent the Sankaku Jime, it was actually Masaru Hayakawa, between 1921 and 1922, Oda published it in a book in 1929, he popularised it, that's why people mistake him for inventing the triangle choke.

[@dakotaroosa202]

My dude Chadi going straight for the kill. You know your stuff man!!

[@Chadi]

@@dakotaroosa202 🙇🏻‍♂️🤙🏻

[@carlosluismendez7392]

The samurai created first.

[@mineshaftrisotto]

Actually, it was Richard Triangle, in 1981, who created the triangle choke

[@Hazama91350]

Salut Chadi !

[@josiahgodwin8380]

Beautiful footage, beautiful music I could learn with this 😀

[@joarescachorrao]

Emocionante ver que coisas que fazemos e as vezes nos pegamos pensando em fazer já eram praticadas...

[@emersondentale7971]

Sim, penso que cada vez que amarramos nossas faixas e treinamos, estamos não só praticando algo milenar como, estamos mantendo vivo os nomes de todos os guerreiros praticantes do judô/jiu jitsu, de alguma forma e como se os espíritos de todos aquela que originaram nossas linhagens dentro do tatame estivessem presente

[@a.s.vieira7846]

Amazing video. Its great to see how BJJ preserved this techniques to these days because otherwise sport judo would not do it. Questions about names are irrelevant. Gracie family did a great work and just capitalised on that. Judo is just another name given by Jigoro Kano. The name of the art was ju-jutsu or jiu-jitsu and always will be. By the way, his method in the early days was called kano ju-jutsu and so arrived in Brazil.

[@MentzerCSC]

Apesar de ser uma discussão que não leva a nada hehe mas jujutsu não era bem uma arte, era sim um modo de lutar que fazia parte do "currículo" do bujutsu, os samurais aprendiam vários modos de lutar como o kenjutsu (com espadas) e o modo de lutar desarmado (jujutsu). Existiam várias escolas (ryu) de Jujutsu, portanto, vários estilos diferentes, filosofias diferentes. É inegável que a vertente do Jiu Jitsu Brasileiro é descendente direta do Kodokan Judo ou Kano Jujutsu (kito ryu; tenshin shinyo ryu; fusen ryu) seja por Maeda que incialmente ensinou aos Gracies, seja também pelo segundo professor (e esquecido) dos Gracie que foi Geo Omori que também era graduado pelo Kodokan. O termo Jujutsu remontaria à época anterior à restauração Meiji com conotações marciais, logo o Judo seria a superação da velha filosofia de base por uma visão nova, um método de ensino ligado à formação do indivíduo e não para o treinamento militar.

[@a.s.vieira7846]

Boa contribuição ao debate, amigo. Osss

[@a.s.vieira7846]

Uma coisa que noto é que Jigoro Kano não criou nada realmente novo, mas adaptou as técnicas ao seu método de ensino reforçando o lado educacional mas fazendo o possível para não vincular suas práticas ao bujutsu dos samurais. Por exemplo, em nenhum lugar dos ensinos dele vemos referencias ao código Bushido tão decantado no Ocidente como o supra sumo da cultura guerreira japonesa e que hoje vemos tão em voga no meio das lutas como um apelo à tradição das artes marciais, uma volta às raízes apesar do kano judo ter um aspectos bem semelhantes às normas do Bushido. Acha que isso foi intencional?

[@MentzerCSC]

Acho que esse apelo à cultura guerreira dos samurais tenha mais uma conotação comercial nos dias de hoje, Apesar disso, onde eu moro, conheço uma escola de JJB que foge desse padrão mais ''comercial'' desse apelo e realmente adota como filosofia o culto ao Budo e ao Bushido (adotando uma postura até mais isolacionista no plano de federações, confederações, competições). Acredito realmente que hoje vivenciamos dentro do próprio Jiu Jitsu Brasileiro o caminho de Kano, a consolidação do JJB esportivo seria esse ultimo estágio, como foi no caso do Kodokan Judo.

[@a.s.vieira7846]

Verdade. Os Gracies, em especial o Royce mas também o Rickson, tem se pronunciado com ressalvas ao Jiu-Jitsu esportivo. O Rickson até mesmo criou sua própria federação para tentar disseminar entre os professores um retorno ao ensino da arte como um todo, com defesa pessoal para situações reais do cotidiano. Acho essa iniciativa boa para mostrar que o JJB tem muito mais a ensinar. Mas onde fica essa escola que vc se referiu? Pode falar ou é segredo? rsrsrs

[@cyrilderepas9278]

Pls keep this footage . Thank you for uploading too

[@brunomartins5296]

Me entristece que a família Gracie, que deve tudo ao Judo, não reconheça que na verdade eles não inventaram nada. No máximo aperfeiçoaram alguma coisa... Mas que o Ne Waza já havia sido inventado muito antes do nascimento de qlqr Gracie.

[@luegimsomi795]

This is a truly amazing video.

[@edsonmotta500]

Como diria depois desse vídeo : não inventamos a roda. Isso para mim que sou leigo é o Jiujitsu brasileiro. Aliás agora já não acho que é brasileiro.

[@Henriflute]

O ju jutsu brasileiro, é basicamente o que Maeda ensinou, Maeda tinha um foco forte em newaza(chao) e finalizaçoes mais que o normal, o Bjj herdou esse foco. O judo moderno e o Ju Jutsu se diferenciaram pelo diferente foco, mas originalmente é o mesmo sistema o Kodokan Ju Jutsu (que mais tarde mudou o nome para JUDO, para diferenciar-se das escolas tradicionais historicas de Ju Jutsu). Nada foi inventado, nada novo, apenas Bjj treina muito mais chao que os judokasmodernos, logo sao muito superiores em newaza, sao mais sofisticados devido a pratica constante, do mesmo jeito Ju Jutsu vc aprende alguma queda, bom era pra aprender, mas no maximo o professor mostra uma vez ou duas e nao tem uma pratica real constante daquilo logo, ficam meio fracos de queda em relaçao aos judokas modernos.

[@professorteacher3679]

​@@Henriflute negativo. JIU JITSU É JUDÔ MAL FEITO.

[@quickstep2408]

very cool, glad i stumbled across this rare video. thanks for the upload!

[@romanp3677]

Awesome stuff thanks for sharing

[@Renku07]

I've always said that BJJ is a carbon copy of judo from the very first day I saw Bjj, and here it's the proof. They gave it another name just to make a profit out it; otherwise, people would just practice judo if Gracie's family had told the truth. But we all know what's the truth. It's always been Japanese jujitsu.

[@fartsare2023]

Renku07 Well your kind of right. Kind of Wrong. Mitsuo Maeda did bring Judo to Brazil. Your right. But he didn't call it Judo. He called his art jiujitsu because the word Judo had not yet become the household name it was today. Even Master Helio said that he had never heard of the word Judo before 1956. ( Its inclusion in the Olympics ). However, I will agree with you that what the Gracie family did do was preserve Judo in its original form, with a much more evolved Newaza and a touch of wrestling thrown in there. Remember, Brazilian streets are a nasty and dangerous place. Especially back then. Even in the 2016 olympics, athletes were being robbed and mugged. The Gracies took Judo/Jiujitsu and adapted it for their needs and survival.

[@davidcampbell5428]

Paul Daluz You are kind of right, kind of wrong. Mitsuyo Maeda didn't call it Judo because he never had permission to teach Judo by the Kodokan so called it Jiu-Jitsu. Kosen Judo tournaments have been held in Japan since 1898 years before the Gracie's were even taught Judo/Jiu-Jitsu and still are being held to this day. I agree Brazilian streets are a nasty and dangerous place!

[@fartsare2023]

david campbell Everybody called Judo jiujitsu before the Japanese government mandated the word Judo to be used. Because before that Judo and jiujitsu were used interchangeably. And you are also right. Maeda was rumored to not be in good favor with the Kodokan. So it is possible that he used the word Jiujitsu to avoid unwanted sanctions or attention. And its also possible that the Gracies stuck with the word (Gracie) Jiujitsu so that they can call their art their own. In the end however who knows? In as much as jiujitsu being proven over and over as an effective martial art, there has been alot of dishonesty in how history is told as it has been with many other stories. Thus at this point of my life I'll just stick to the old BJJ adage. Lmao.😀. Thanks for keeping it respectful.

[@Tentaisei]

Nah

[@reyg7028]

Just to add to what t Mr Daluz said . Although many of the techniques are the same . BJJ includes many more that arent allowed in judo. And its much more refined and intricate . Examples would be leg locks , wrist locks etc. Also because of the rules BJJ continues to growand expand its techniques whereas Judo Newaza doesn't . Basically anything you can o in Judo , you can do in BJJ and more . As a former Judo World Masters champion 4th Dan and a Renzo Gracie Black Belt . I can assure you i speak with some authority on the subject .

[@k9m42]

Let's just be honest with ourselves and start calling BJJ, Jujitsu...

[@ArmandValleMushinryu]

historically the judo is well anterior is at the origin of the bjj. Honesty being to recognize the origin of the bjj and not the opposite.

[@chcknpie04]

Dojo Online and Jujutsu or Jujitsu predates Judo, so OP has it right.

[@chcknpie04]

Keenan Cornelius brought me here

[@abrahamlincoln6201]

First it shiao jiao then Japanese jiujitsu then judo then brazilian jiujitsu

[@Hazama91350]

Robert Drysdale brought me here.

[@rrt1592]

I like this music. It's cool.

[@kallepikku4991]

But how is this possible? Didn't the Gracies invent ground fighting?

[@teovu5557]

they invented leverage. In fact the dictionary added that term when Helio Gracie come up with it in his sleep when God came down and taught him Jiujitsu. While the devil taught the japanese jiudo because of the sins of ww2. It's true too kuz Rorion Gracie told me.

[@ahronthegreat]

Lmao “invent ground fighting” no u phillistine the Gracie’s pioneered BJJ which is derived from Judo

[@rafaelbds2649]

Os Gracies não inventaram nada. Como no ocidente não havia ninguém que propagasse essas técnicas, eles saíram na frente.

[@thefrostbite712]

BJJ's groundfighting came from the specialization and development of Ne-waza (Ground techniques) From Kodokan Judo. Kosen Judo is a style of Kodokan Judo that specializes in Ne-waza. Though Kosen and BJJ developed independently from each other, they specialize in the same things and therefore, share many of the same moves. Think of it as 2+2=4 but 3+1 is also 4. There are only so many ways you can pass the guard, pin the opponent, transition and advance positons and submit using joint locks or strangleholds.

[@diegoguimaraes185]

E lindo de se ver! Oss.

[@rrt1592]

It should've been called Brazilian Judo Association...not Brazilian Jiu jitsu.

[@reyg7028]

Except ther is a Brazilian Judo Assn . And BJJ has a separate and distinct rule set .

[@triduong190]

This all comes from old Japanese Jujutsu before Kano. There are lineages of jujutsu schools in japan with ancients scrolls with armlocks, leglocks and strangulations. It is Brazilian Jujutsu not Brazilian Judo.Anyway, Judo is just Kano Jujutsu, mostly a combination of the Tenjin Shin'yō-ryū and Kitō-ryū's jujutsu.

[@jp8237]

@@triduong190 Very well observed. Judo is Kano way of jiujitsu .

[@jp8237]

I understood your point. Actually the BJJ is the developing the technic for whom has the back against the ground and is in a teorical submissive position. That is the main diference. Although those tecnichs is the base to be a "passador" (passer)

[@andreyroberto9177]

@@jp8237 por mais que o Jiu Jitsu Brasileiro tenha se especializado nessa forma de lutar com as costas no chão (fazendo guarda) isso já era feito pelos judocas que lutavam o Kosen Judo Taikai, já eram guardeiros e o desenvolvimento e utilização do Sankaku Jime (triângulo) é uma expressão disso. Dificilmente vc vai ver um judoca aplicar um sankaku jime por causa das limitações impostas pelas regras do kodokan judo. A própria guarda "De La Riva" ja era feita, coisa que foi tida como inovação no JJB apenas nos anos 80.

[@rrt1592]

It should've been called Brazilian Judo Association.

[@tl8211]

The Brazilian Confederation of Judo already exists, 😂

[@911Salvage]

I like the music. Can you tell me the title?

[@MoooseBlood]

Description

[@JP-tk8nx]

Helio creates leverage 😂😂😂😂

[@MentzerCSC]

Helio didn't create the leverage and the guard , but we should to thank the grandmaster Helio Gracie for influencing several generations in Brazil, having the specialty in newaza and preserving concepts like the guard that were forgotten by its creators because of the sport judo.

[@alanguages]

Material PGE Kron Gracie stated Helio created leverage and the guard. Is Kron lying to people when he says that?

[@MentzerCSC]

Yes, search about the jujutsuka called Kiyoshi Noguchi, and you will see that Helio didn't create the guard.

[@MentzerCSC]

He's not lying but he repeats a lie created by his family

[@jimmyalderson1639]

Material PGE the guard was not forgotten, just because europeans left judo behind them doesn't mean the founders did. Even in my dojo, on the opposite side of the world, we still do guard sweeps, passes, retention and submissions and we don't even have any newaza specialists teaching us and we don't even dedicate a whole lot of time to it

[@brucefraser4058]

just one thing i want to add to this great piece of footage......just the fact theres no such thing as kosen judo......in judo we just say judo, if a particular school enjoys groundwork more than stand up.....then thats their choice.....its still just judo.

[@KP-wi6in]

there are 7 judo universities who teach, practice, and hold kosen judo tournaments... with their own specific kosen rule-set. kosen is distinct.

[@rhmarcus]

Of course, Kirkor Papasian.

[@brucefraser4058]

i came up in judo learning it as such as you see it in this video.....but we have always participated in what we now call IJF rule tournaments...my father who was sensei at the time always told us that eventhough we learn certain techniques we couldnt use them at tourneys as they werent sport oriented enough.....but there was no talk of anything such as kosen being something separate...and it shouldnt be.

[@MErazoPT]

I agree , it is all one thing but Kosen Judo does exist in Japan, in some Universities even though as you say, it is all one thing. Japan Universities, who emphasize the Ne Waza aspect of Judo, even if they do practice throws, etc.

[@abuAbduAllah100]

amazing!

[@edgardtalisman5357]

Beautfull

[@erwinsasageyo]

oss

[@aplus1080]

Would be sick to see someone detail the bjj names in the video and when it occurs in the video. 😊🤔

[@sergioluisflorianobarbosa2534]

Fantástico as variações de ju jutsu desse mestre

[@klebersampaiopereira5448]

Não tem nada de jiu jutsu e sim Judô Ele foi o Patriarca do Ne waza, incumbido pelo próprio Shihan!

[@sergioluisflorianobarbosa7113]

@@klebersampaiopereira5448 em 1900 ainda não se chamava judo esse nome veio anos depois em 1900 era jiu jitsu kano

[@tl8211]

O Instituto de Judô Kodokan foi fundado pelo Kanō com esse nome já em 1882. Ninguém no Japão chamava judô de Jiu-Jitsu, inclusive existem jornais da colônia japonesa no Brasil da época que explicitam que o Maeda é praticante de judô, o detalhe é que o termo Jiu-Jitsu era mais conhecido pelos brasileiros (pois antes mesmo de Maeda praticantes de Jiu-Jitsu como o Sada Miyako vieram ao Brasil) e por isso acabou adotado pelos jornais e outras mídias da época.

[@sergioluisflorianobarbosa2534]

Só uma observação em 1900 ainda era kano ju jutsu

[@Sr.D]

Marvelous, know your roots, bjj comes from judo and not all bjj has Kano>Maeda>Gracie lineage

[@qrcode4718]

2047:IJF ban judo...

[@sergioluisflorianobarbosa2534]

Show

[@renangomes3948]

Tudo veio do Japão judô que só se baseou na luta em pé por isso criaram o jiu jitsu para ficar com a parte esquecida pelo judo a luta de chão mas tudo é um só judo

[@academyofartscienceandphil2106]

Escreveu besteira. O jiu-jitsu brasileiro veio do Judô(Kano Jiu-Jitsu). O judô é mais completo, pois tem chão e luta em pé(quedas).

[@tiagogontar379]

Mas o foco do Judô é nas projeções partindo da luta em pé, já o BJJ é focado na luta de solo. A maior diferença não são as técnicas, que geralmente são as mesmas, mas sim o foco, as prioridades...

[@MrBluemanworld]

Let's use AI to clear this video up

[@catalalleida1833]

Oss

[@sergioluisflorianobarbosa2534]

E a técnica kozen era antigamente chamada de fuzen

[@reyg7028]

Although many of the techniques are the same . BJJ includes many more that arent allowed in judo. And its much more refined and intricate . Examples would be leg locks , wrist locks etc. Also because of the rules BJJ continues to growand expand its techniques whereas Judo Newaza doesn't . Basically anything you can o in Judo , you can do in BJJ and more . As a former Judo World Masters champion 4th Dan and a Renzo Gracie Black Belt . I can assure you i speak with some authority on the subject .

[@Tentaisei]

Rey G As a Judo Dojo owner and teacher as well Jujutsu who teaches more than Olympic Judo I can sure you, you dont.

[@yungt7723]

then you should know leg locks are b anned from judo but doesn tmean it didnt exist before

[@InvisibleHotdog]

Sounds like a 4th dan in Bullshido. The only intricate thing the Gracies have done is copying others and claiming to be inventors, from Maeda to Isao Okano and beyond.

[@Sira628]

bjj is judo and judo is bjj