TunerStudio 101 | Introduction To The MS3 Pro | MegaSquirt 3 [GOLD WEBINAR LESSON]

[@danman2001]

Love this channel and love the fact that Megasquirt ECUs are also featured. I've been tuning these ECUs since 2007-ish and really enjoy the affordability and the DIY aspect before they had the plug and play ECUs. Looking forward to checking out your website and digging in a bit more. Always something to learn!

[@rangeraficionado87]

Do you tune the pimpxs for others remotely?

[@KnineLiveZ]

I just got a Megasquirt 3 gold box system for my 84 Z31 300ZX! I’m so excited to run it!

[@MonkeyWrenching]

YES!!! I run a speeduino but it basically is the same thing, we even run tunerstudio. I just so happen to have a NA Miata turbo as well, I’m sure this webinar will prove to teach me something useful not matter how much I may already know. Thanks guys!!!

[@hpa101]

Our pleasure mate! Hope it helps you get started. Note we do have a full Worked Example which shows how to tune from start to finish using TunerStudio software (and many others) in our course material too. If you have any questions sing out here or via [e-mail] - Taz.

[@mchristr]

This is right on time. I'm saving my shekels for a PiMPx setup from Stinger Performance for my Mustang SVO. Compared to the other options it's supposed to be both affordable and tuner-friendly for newbies like me. The sequential fire option is available with the appropriate position sensors. Thanks Andre.

[@jasonmorahan7450]

One of the good things about MS is that DIY background makes it very adaptable to unusual projects, what I'm talking about here is what I put in my car, the "Franken CIS" adaptation by Dkubus in South Australia for older European performance engines running Bosch CIS and CIS-E injection systems of the Jetronic family, which allows you to use the Microsquirt or Megasquirt2 ECU to operate the original Bosch injection with the addition of some basic modern sensors. I mention this because it's my setup currently being installed on an older M103 Mercedes engine, which nobody really expects to keep up with an A45 AMG but not many people know about the pre-merger AMG Mercs like the Hammer (first non-supercar to crack 300km/h), that are very exciting cars to drive around, so my project has been to replicate a pre-merger 1980s AMG 3.2 Baby Hammer, the 190E straight six companion to the quad cam V8 Hammer (long before Porsche redesigned the 124 for a V8 so the post-merger E60 Americans are familiar with isn't a Hammer, this was before variable cams and had custom DOHC heads on an M117 motor shoved into a six cylinder 300E, so Wheels Magazine called it "the Hammer to beat a Ferrari with"). A big thing about this is in Historic class racing meets the Franken/MS adaptation doesn't push the car into the Modified class, being just a tuning interface without actually modifying the factory injection. But end user tunability is something the Bosch CIS systems don't have and that's the single, biggest factor about why those classic engines are overlooked in modern tuner projects in favour of later engines with EFI that can be laptop tuned for custom mods. More importantly for operators of classic CIS engines in factory or mildly modified trim, all the untapped power of a factory set ECU tune for all situations is immediately overcome, with dyno examples showing as much as 20% output increase on completely stock engines like the 2.6 litre SOHC Mercedes six. The thing to remember about the Bosch era performers is because the system represented cutting edge technology at the time all the development money on new engine types by manufacturers had to go into chambering refinement, flame front research, metallurgy, track worthy fine tolerances and years of bench testing subtle design modifications to squeeze as much as possible from the core engine without its bolt on technology, because self tuning injection systems and sensor interpretation, along with processing capability was far more limited despite being eons ahead of carb engines. A loose example of this is flow benching an 80s Mercedes head compared to a 70s Holden/Chev one off mainstream passenger engines for a port and polish in a race/tuner application. In the Chev you'll be essentially redesigning the ports with a grinder to flow significant power increase, the Mercedes is already like dropping a coin down a bottomless pit and there's just nothing to do with it but clean up factory dags, I know because that's what happened when I sent mine to a race builder asking for double the factory horsepower flow with a big wad of cash and they didn't want to take my money because all they had to do was minor clean up, the flow was already there. Over-engineered is the term frequently thrown around about 80s Euro cars. The throttle body on a stock 2.6 is bigger than a 5.0 litre Mustang of the same year, but it has roughly the same economy as a period carb four. Meanwhile Bosch technical manuals say the fuel side of CIS-E has no problem accommodating 70% output increase on a given factory fitment, without modification so long as you can afford the custom electronics to retune it and they give proven track examples of exactly that. Now that's a little different in engineering emphasis than modern EFI engines, where performance can be calibrated entirely by the expense and extent of bolt on technology or variations of it. An example of this is comparing late model C200, C250 and C300 power options to older C200, C250 and C280 ones. The newer ones have the same engine with different boost dialled in, whilst the older ones have a four, a four with a blower and a six. So whilst they may lack variable cams and tend to be made from dissimilar metals, not without their own problems they are necessarily extremely well made engines with OEM tolerances comparable to aftermarket track kits with a lot of tuner potential built in, in fact comparing them to even earlier engines is like comparing earlier engines to a track built version of itself which is then detuned for grandma to drive but still has a 7200rpm continuous bench rating off the dealer floor, even when they have a 6200rpm fuel cutoff. So you will be seeing more MS/Franken-CIS/TunerStudio setups in the future looking for dyno tuners and home tuning advice because of a two-fold existing market coming around to it. Porsche clubs at local track meets and other classic Bosch system operators in Historic class are catching onto it, but it's still a fairly recent development so takes a while to get around. Still, there's nothing else in the world like it even remotely as cheap and user friendly. Mercedes 190E 16v "Cossies" are gaining a resurgence in buyer interest and many of them want to take them on the track, search all over the web for tuner mods but don't want to remove the Bosch injection for originality, resale value or class rules. Same thinking behind the classic Porsche operators. Euro "young classic" interest in general has been climbing, especially in the UK where Bosch fitted classic cars of all makes have been escalating in value, restoration shops opening up in every region and owners looking for some subtle modernization for road use without overly impacting originality, something which can be later removed during refurbishment for resale at a significant mark up, or just something to keep as a classic with contemporary driveability. Then there are those like myself, who love the look of a young classic like the W201, which also drive fantastic with the 5-link rear and massive development budget, so with some very basic upgrades like brakes from a heavier model are very track worthy and just need a competitive output. The only options for a 190E 2.6 M103 at 160hp was to slightly cam it on the stock Bosch with other bolt ons for 180hp, swap in a 3.0 M103 to similar effect for 180-200hp or swap in a DOHC 3.0 or 3.2 M104 from a later model for 190-210hp, which was already beginning to get troublesome and expensive in the cost-benefit ratio. Or you could spend the cost of buying a late model performance car on a complete engine rebuild with an EFI conversion and have at it or save the expense of an engine type change and everything associated or full EFI conversion and TunerStudio Bosch on the period engine with only a full house performance rebuild to pay for and still get something nobody is ever going to expect, from something that still looks like the standard, original motor when you lift the hood and for all intents and purposes replicates a period AMG fire breather with a technology edge in the tuning department. I think that's something that's going to catch on too. So there's another dimension to add onto the DIY following the MS/TunerStudio has, affordable and user friendly conversion kits for classic enthusiasts and Bosch injection cars. I probably could've just said that but I'm a talker and was drinking, my car's away for Franken installation and nobody can go anywhere with Covid around.

[@ABeans07]

Holy essay

[@justinlautz1182]

Sunday funday! Throw in some open loop vs closed loop idle tuning basics with PID and that would be the bees knees 😎👍

[@limitlessbuilds]

Can’t wait for the next one! Just got my MS3X and I’m sure this will be handy one day!

[@UnsponsoredBuilds]

Love your videos and love your podcast! Listen everyday on my Bluetooth beanie while I drive my forklift at work! Been learning a lot thru trial and error on my supercharged 350 whp miata! Might have to buy your courses here very soon!!

[@hpa101]

I never knew a Bluetooth Beanie was a thing. You may have just changed my life 😂 Awesome that you're enjoying the podcasts and thanks for the comment! We'll be here when/if you need us. I still haven't managed to turbocharge mine yet, jealous of yours! Hope you're enjoying it - Taz.

[@samuelcorbett243]

I think you'll come to love the auto tune. It has limits for coolant temp and excludes any transients by default! It has adjustable sensitivity and you can alsonlock it out of certain cells etc. Really well put together program for roughing in an unknown combo!

[@hpa101]

Yes we're excited to dive into it a bit deeper in the coming months and comparing the auto tune function to others we have used. It can be a great tool to help you tune a bit faster, or it can just make life harder depending on the implementation. Sounds like it might be the former with this application though 😀- Taz.

[@TheCarpenterUnion]

Thank you for finally doing this. I will definitely return if I ever get one for my truck!

[@davidkris]

13 hours to go, reminder set for what should be a perfect first webinar for me. As a '95 miata owner with a naturally aspirated 10.3:1, '99 head with exh-intake cam swap, but stock EFI and emissions and passing CA smog, I'm curious what I could do with an MS3 and could I swap it back to a state that would pass smog every 2 years with a weekend's work? Not expecting that to be covered but hoping to learn a lot:)

[@mrd.808]

Tine Pierce used an MS3PRO to tune her 2500 hp 1966 Chevy Nova to run 7.44 seconds down the 1320ft (402 meters).

[@TinkoMollov]

As hp Academy is about to get more experience with the ECUmaster ecus (the upcoming series about them) could you compare the 2 ecus. For example the ecu master black vs the appropriate (not based on price) and comparable ecu from the MS? Thank you in advance.

[@topreece]

One difficult to set up is the accel enrich table!, also the parameters on which time is a variable!.

[@thomgt4]

Accel enrichment is tricky, especially getting a good throttle response at any RPM

[@CatchMeNever]

@@thomgt4 yeah struggling to tune my turbo miata setup right now. It is pretty tricky to get it smooth

[@hpa101]

We'll cover this using this platform in a Members Only webinar later this year. Once filmed it will appear in the archive here: www.hpacademy.com/previous-webinars/ - Taz.

[@awesomecooly123]

Go on msextra and search for EAE, lots and lots of info, especially info from forum admins and Matt Cramer they know their stuff.

[@TheSkattin]

If you could go over afterstart enirchment, taper and warmup enrichment that would be amazing!

[@hpa101]

We do plan to cover these topics in future MS based webinars for you guys :) - Taz.

[@DJimeku]

Question: When dyno tuning the cells under boost, but at full operating temperature... do we set idle control to open loop or closed loop? And also, what about the EGO/AFR? When tuning the cells using autotune, do we set the algorithm to simple or PID or no correction?

[@Garage_Dori]

Looking forward to it team!

[@SLYDIT]

Finding Injector dead time and going over coolant temp and Air intake temp variables would be cool

[@PANTYEATR1]

Andre @ 23:21 that key is called the "forward slash" (/) key in the states. this (\) is the "backwards slash" key. I'm sure by now someone had mentioned it, but if not I'm here for you bro💪 love the content and MS for the win!

[@hpa101]

Awww man, being upside down on the other side of the planet issues strike again haha. Chur! - Taz.

[@PANTYEATR1]

@@hpa101 it's all good Taz, it's these differences that make the world the great place it is 💪

[@vozhdmeister5256]

Hello, I am using a ms3pro (ITB load strategy, fully sequential with coilsOnPlugs, tables blending flexFuel setup, spartan3 over CAN lambda wideband controller). I can give some clues about the questions asked. Is wideband closed loop good ? Some users complained about it and the firmware was modified to change PID behavior, so it is ok now assuming to use the last firmware releases (1.5.2rc15 currently). However everybody should remember it is a really bad idea to rely on lambda correction to compensate for a widely wrong VE table. How about flex Fuel ? Currently the only supported flexFuel sensor is the GM/continental. As with the lambda closed-loop settings, there is a simple way and a more advanced way to go. The simple way is to enter a fixed percentage of fuel to add and a fixed ignition timing offset for the alternative fuel, the ms3 will interpolate as a function of ethanol measured in fuel (assuming values entered are for 100% alternative fuel. So 85% ethanol for 100% e85). The other way is to let flexFuel fuel adder and ignition timing offset to 0 but enable and use the tables blending (flexFuel mode) which let you tune alternative tables dedicated for 100% alternative fuel while first tables stay related to main fuel. Then the ms3 will blend values from both tables in respect with proportion of alternative fuel measured in current fuel (and there's a curve to tweak that proportion too). That allows for no-linear relationship between both fuels if any, in particular as ethanol is much less tending to knock, you would likely be interested into gaining more advance that the only ignition timing offset when running on e85 as ignition table for pump fuel could get limited in some areas due to knock, which will not be near to occur running e85.

[@hpa101]

Are you an HPA Gold Member @Vozhd? We actually have an MS3 Pro based webinar lined up which you will be able to get some answers to these questions at the end of, other than Flex Fuel as the car is still just running pump gas at this stage: www.hpacademy.com/webinars/266-idle-speed-control-ms3pro/ - Taz.

[@WillGetson]

i wanna learn to just data log!! my cars already tuned and i dont want to change the tune

[@mugshotmarley]

Thank you!!!!!!

[@Hiller5150]

My names Jon and I run a performance shop In Ohio , United States , is there a email or way to contact you to give advice on tuning ms3 ultimate with tunerstudio pro running a twin turbo gen 2 lt1 on methanol with 383 cubic inches forged rotating assembly and some insite on dos and don’t or how toos would be awesome I’ve been watching a lot of your videos and just subscribed but I’d like to find someone for technical support that understands the operating system

[@hpa101]

Hey Jon, sounds like a fun project. Certainly a deep end dive to get you underway with tuning! Unfortunately we don't offer technical support/consultancy services like that outright. We do help members as they learn via the courses, they can post maps and logs to the forum for help and advice, but it's not outright technical support as you are hoping for sorry. DIY Autotune might be good to ask if they have anyone on staff or that they can recommend for this, although you should also expect a certain amount of support from them when it comes to the technical side of things, that is a fair request of any ECU supplier, but their help is focused on the function/s of the ECU rather than being there to teach you how to tune, if that makes sense - Taz.

[@Hiller5150]

@@hpa101 taz , yes engine designer builder , head first into Tuning a car with a gen 2 sbc ,LS cop and meth twin turbo built for 2500 hp and learning to tune on it so I may ask from Time to time but am fairly quick to research and learn everything about a specific task at hand . I appreciate the response and advice thank you , Jon Also went this route in order to run 16 injectors , cyl afr for individual cyl, and all the other things it’s capable of doing . Running about 13.1 compression forged billet rotating assembly, twin 67/71s pretty radical build but it’s a beautiful build something I’m sure proud of

[@hpa101]

You have good reason to be proud of that Jon!

[@davidmaye3580]

Are you saying "full stop key"?

[@hpa101]

Time stamp please - Taz.

[@Mitutumuch]

0:24

[@donatascivas1642]

Very sad, but megasquirt firmware development stopped couple years ago..

[@weebunnyhuny]

Are you sure?

[@donatascivas1642]

Yes. Many people asking useful new features for years.. But I still MS fan over other ecu. Nice Tuning software, very powerful CAN bus, and etc..

[@sebfullick5011]

@Present past future 1.5.2 has some nice revisions to the PID EGO control, i have it working very well

[@boostedgem4159]

1.5.2 release candidate 15 came out in Jan 21, should be getting close to release. While there was a significant period where not much was happening in that space it seems like they are getting back on top of it slowly.

[@vozhdmeister5256]

I am using the 1.5.2rc15 too with pretty good results.

[@Chalmich5]

Mmmmm...penetration.