Turning Kylo Ren into a true heir of Darth Vader with one simple change (Saving The Sequels Part 4)

Part One: • What the Sequel Trilog...
Part Two: • How explaining Anakin'...
Part Three: • JJ Abrams & Rian Johns...
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[@yourstruly4817]

Sequels: "Look how old you've become." Prequels: "Something far worse has happened to you!"

[@jknetwork6211]

Sequels: “the rights to Star Wars. We know you’ve found it. And now you will give it to the Disney order”.

[@mohamedamineboughadou4096]

"Take that ridiculous thing off..."

[@jknetwork6211]

@@mohamedamineboughadou4096 “I killed Star Wars! When the time came I didn’t hesitate!”

[@matthewwheeler469]

Roasting the sequels with their own meme. Savage!

[@matthewwheeler469]

@@jknetwork6211 "And look at you! The deed split your profits to the bone!"

[@d15p4tch6]

Kylo's voice under the helmet is actually super creepy. It would have been great if they had made him almost a horror movie villain - some super restrained, powerful sociopath

[@kylemcdonnell86]

Honestly, I thought he should have never took the helmet off

[@Ddragon173]

There is already one, Darth Nihilus!

[@sca4789]

@@kylemcdonnell86 Agreed! He was scary, until we saw his face. He should have told Snoke, "This is my face. The mask is underneath."

[@traviss9059]

They made him very menacing from the start (I mean the dude stops a blaster with the force the first time we see him and no one has ever done that in the movies) then they turn him into a whining bitch who gets beat by someone who has zero training as a Jedi. And where they failed with Kylo they failed with Rey. If the story had Rey lose in her first battle with Kylo both characters would have been strengthened in the long run. I don't think they had much idea of a direction they wanted to take the films in after TFA though. Many characters where built up in TFA, brought down in TLJ, and then had no place in ROS (except Rey who is basically a god compared to everyone else)

[@thebastard890]

Honestly, if they turned Ren into this absolute beacon of the dark side, he would be straight up terrifying, where every scene with him has the same amount of dread to it as Vader's hallway scene in Rogue one.

[@itsthemumu8585]

They should’ve just let Dave Filoni handle the story of these movies honestly. He’s the closest thing to George Lucas we’ll ever get while still having a fresh imagination

[@joshuamueller3206]

"while still having a fresh imagination" important line to prevent Disney from ignoring the obvious and just making a George Lucas AI and letting it write everything.

[@itsthemumu8585]

@@joshuamueller3206 as much as I love George for his imagination, I feel like it struggled towards the end. Mentored by George himself, Filoni has this passion for respect of George’s creation and has this knack for knowing exactly what the story needs to keep us invested and entertained

[@joshuamueller3206]

@@itsthemumu8585 True.

[@tankieflanker4119]

He's better than George Lucas

[@zarrstrudeltributemaker314]

Filoni is overrated if you would be real to yourself

[@dereklopez9060]

Adam Driver's performance on his character was undeniably spot on, I really think the sequel trilogy should've focused on Ben Solo since he's a Skywalker by blood in order to truly call it "The Skywalker Saga".

[@dereklopez9060]

@@anonymousproductionsxd2912 Yeah, me too.

[@dereklopez9060]

@@anonymousproductionsxd2912 What's it called?

[@firestarr5812]

He was certainly more interesting than Rey.

[@dereklopez9060]

@@firestarr5812 Agreed.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

That or Rey would've needed to be his actual sister(and NOT a love-interest). Although I suppose there is something to be said for saying that found and/or adoptive family matters too. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ Idk _As a gal myself tho, I'm kind of tired of the characters I find most interesting and/or most relatable in my favorite genres/movies being guys. So, really, I think they just needed to do Rey(& the overall story itself) better justice - Either way. Even though I also don't think she was nearly as bad as some people think._

[@Spud1189]

Him being Vader’s heir could just be him becoming the man his grandfather failed to be. Vader failed as a dark side user, he let his love for his son get to him and rejected the darkness. Kylo could do the opposite, at the end he could have completely given in to the dark side and become a complete monster which was something Vader failed to be.

[@stormbringer2840]

@Dylan Drummond Holocron is the only option . George Lucas specifically never wanted sith force ghost because immortality is what they sought and he wanted it to be ironic that what they desperately wanted to achieve with the darkside was only possible with the lightside by being completely selfless .

@@stormbringer2840 Sith can also become Force Ghosts if they tie their soul to a certain thing. Ironic in that they’ve achieved an immortality of entrapment. They’re forever stuck until someone lets them free to return to the Force like everyone else.

[@inarencommander4663]

@@stormbringer2840 Have you seen the Clone Wars?

[@necromage843]

@@inarencommander4663 are you talking about Darth bane? Because that wasn’t really him just an illusion to test yoda

[@JesusHasRisen1]

I would love to see Kylo Ren with gleaming yellow Sith eyes. It would show how evil he is, or has become, just like Anakin after he massacred the Sepratist leaders in ROTS

[@linkaran512]

The only real thing I enjoyed of The Last Jedi, was him deciding to stay evil.

[@thephoenix4093]

Why?

[@wilkoweers_8612]

@@thephoenix4093 because him becoming good destroyes everything

[@Whitename]

@@thephoenix4093 both luke and vader in the end didnt choose evil

[@mrandersen6872]

@@Whitename the last jedi wasn't the end

[@FerrisBueller-lj9zj]

Wish Rey took over tha galaxy as sith .

[@samuelhamilton4437]

The one big change I would have done to the whole story would have been to have Kylos reasoning for turning to the dark side while also implementing a different back story for Rey, First of all having Rey as a nobody but someone strong in the force and being found by Luke at a young age this means she actually gets trained properly, Kylo while also one of Luke's students shows jealousy towards her and some arrogance because of his blood line which leads him down the dark side rather than having luke do something out of character. Kylo eventually destroys lukes new Jedi again but doesn't manage to get Rey who then has her memory wiped and hidden in a corner of the galaxy to keep her safe as Luke retreats to try understand what is pulling the strings in the background and reflect upon failing Ben as his master. Would also mean Rey's proficient use in the force could just have been her memory returning rather than the ass pulls we all seen.

[@rushankadri7677]

I'm really surprised this has no likes, literally the best idea I've seen for the sequel trilogy

[@user-dk7mz1py7l]

@@rushankadri7677 Seriously

[@christianbryan7474]

"I will finish, what you started." *Starts burning*

[@umya9971]

id like that as a better death for ben than kissing the fucking fake skywalker and dying

[@darthlynx5792]

@@umya9971 *Fake Skywalker* Funny but True!

[@kennethsatria6607]

@@umya9971 So like Gollum? Obsessed to cling to this power to the end?

[@Raleyg]

I feel like a lot of people give Kylo Ren too much credit, and that they are fooled by Adam Driver's admittedly excellent acting. But Kylo Ren is not in my eyes a good character, because JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson had completely different ideas about his character. People see an inconsistent character played by an excellent actor and assume that the character is "deep" or "conflicted". When in reality, Kylo Ren is just poorly written. Adam Driver really did carry the Sequels

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

No, I thought that he was fairly deep and conflicted in TFA alone(or at least had the appropriate makings/beginnings/ to be so). Everything AFTER that, on the other hand, was actually just inconsistent and dubiously handled except by the excellent actor's performance. Lol

[@akchanneltv4084]

Aksel Lien I agree, why would he suddenly just go and murder everyone, it was only Luke that wronged him.

[@lonelysatoshi2482]

Yeah dude, Adam deversed a better writter that actually cares about the character, because besides him that carried the sequels looks like almost no one cared and just killed him off, and that really pissed me..

[@jangtheconqueror]

Adam Driver was great, any depth that he has was ruined by JJ and Rian overriding each other in their films, just shredded continuity

[@thegodfather4837]

I mean he is supposed to be very unstable, the inconsistent can kinda make sense.

[@captaindc3889]

Even Adam Driver didn’t know if Kylo Ren was going to end up good or bad in the end

[@ignitetheinferno1858]

I think a good way to rewrite Kylo Ren is to make him a Vader/Thanos mashup. The parts of Darth Vader you could integrate is that Kylo is hunting down and destroying all those Force users who won't serve him and the First Order. But he's only following Snoke to obtain all the secrets he needs to become the ultimate Force wielder of the galaxy before usurping the throne. Meanwhile, he's having visions of a girl that could serve as his empress, his very own "Padme" and he's doing much of this tyranny for her. The parts of Thanos you could integrate is the idea of balance. That the galaxy needs to be balanced with a purge of all old establishments. Creating balance by wiping the slate clean, eradicating all remnants of the Republic, of the Empire, to create an entirely new order, something that is both balanced and fair.

[@theinvisibleskulk4563]

The last sentence of your second paragraph would actually make him more like comic Thanos.

[@ttydt]

@@theinvisibleskulk4563 comic thanos only wants fuck death, that’s literally it lol

[@mazkeraid4039]

@@ttydt And that is the point, he loves death and he’ll do anything to wipe out half the universe to do that. MCU Thanos is no more than just a guy who just wants to wipe half the universe just because.

[@SamuelJamesNary]

Having him being conflicted and being a "Vader wannabee" wasn't necessarily a bad thing, as it would be something that a smarter character could manipulate, and it would be something that someone like Snoke could serve that purpose. It'd thus raise some of the mysteries around Snoke and just what his goals were. It would then raise questions as to how Snoke could subvert Luke who likely told him about how Vader's story ended... with Anakin coming back to stop Palpatine. The problem that the sequels got into comes in where they ultimately make Snoke something of a joke in "the Last Jedi" which in turn undercuts Kylo Ren/Ben's whole story arc as well. Having him turn on Snoke is one thing... but that should have happened at the end of the trilogy where he finally recognizes the truth that Snoke, like Palpatine was to Anakin/Vader, was a master manipulator in some other grand goal. In this... it might have been better to have very little presence of Kylo or Snoke in "the Last Jedi" that they're off training just as Luke/Rey are off training... Thus, "the Last Jedi" would end up taking on a more "Rogue One" vibe to it, as the Resistance (who should have been far stronger in "the Last Jedi" gets reinforcements from New Republic units that weren't in the capital system) and the First Order (who should have been weaker in "the Last Jedi" given their status as a paramilitary organization hiding in secrecy and thus couldn't have the conventional military forces to dominate the galaxy) try to make their next moves... And the only parts where Rey/Luke and Kylo/Snoke enter at all are in sorts of training issues with Snoke being clearly made as a powerful trump card that could by himself tilt the entire conflict and showing how Snoke is manipulating Kylo.

[@bigwsly]

He stopped being intimating when he threw a Littaraly tantrum when rey got away

[@bloodysimile4893]

I said early in movie when he starts slashing at the computer. What if that computer was for life support?

[@bloodysimile4893]

@Gmail com When Kylo cut up the computer after receiving the massage that the driod escape in TFA, Kylo lost all creditable of being an intimating villain after that point.

[@rickblaine9670]

What the Sequels did with him after TFA just doesn’t make sense. In TFA, Kylo’s arc was a dark version of the classic coming of age story. He was an insecure young man who needed to find his identity, which he did by murdering his father. At that point, it’s no coincidence that the Vader-like mask fell, and that Ren got the facial scar, aka HIS personal brand of evil, HIS “mask”. In other words, Ep 7 was about Kylo symbolically emerging from Vader’s shadow and becoming his own villain. And this was totally wasted in the next two movies. In Ep 8, he did nothing but repeat his coming of age arc in a different way. And in Ep 9 he just returned to his status as Vader clone as if nothing happened. The ironic conclusion is that the TFA iteration of Kylo, the most underrated of the three, is actually the most interesting one.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

You could say that TFA version is the _true_ version of his character; and was always meant to be conflicted, in a kind of cat and mouse game with Rey vying to see who was the cat and who was the mouse, and could have ended by finding his resolve in either direction(and possibly mirrored similarly for/with Rey & her own resolve too). TLJ version was a different person basically just doing their own thing with the character rather than trying to keep it consistent with what has already been written or shown previously, trying to solidify him not as conflicted but as inherently dark instead, or something. And then TRoS was basically just the original person coming back, wanting to take the character back more in the original intended direction, but also having to deal with the aftermath of what happened in TLJ still being written in as canon too and essentially trying to cram two movies worth of character journey into one movie PLUS without the actress in what likely would've been a pivotal and crucial role along the way of that journey (Carrie Fisher) still alive to film most the necessary pieces to go with it.

[@OrDuneStudios]

Killing his father should have cemented his darkness as unturnable doing what even vader could not do. Slay family.

[@rickblaine9670]

@@OrDuneStudios Exactly.

[@varkesh456]

The whole concept of being tormented/enthralled with his grand fathers legacy was good, but his story should never have been the same as vader's past that point. I feel there were 2 big points where his fearsome presence was lost for me. 1 - when we see him without the mask he is very much a pretty boy which made it seem like he needed the mask to be scary 2 - his temper tantrum after seeing those 2 things combined i could not see him as anything but a childish darth vader wannabe I love the idea of tying fins story more to his personal gaurds which presumably will still be the nights of ren and would give so much more weight to the fact fin is a traitor to the first order.

[@emj3328]

I get your point about that moment when Kylo took his mask off. But "pretty boy?" Kylo was creepy as heck in TFA, ha, ha. I didn't even think he was well-cast as Han and Leia's son until we got further into the, heh, "trilogy."

[@shadowsentry2112]

In hindsight, I would've liked it if they made a Vader ghost the main villain of the trilogy. Have that as a conduit to balance in the cosmic force, while Rey and Ren battle it out in the living force. You could use that to explain why Anakin was able to become a force ghost, despite never going through the years-long training it takes; maybe it meant his work was unfinished, and he had to balance out the cosmic force, as well as the living. And Vader's ghost could be explained as Anakin's dark side growing into its own entity. Keep the 9-part saga actually relevant to the character it's supposed to revolve around: the story of Anakin Skywalker.

[@RyanTheDark]

Me to Sequels: You had such promise. You could have been the Prequels and Originals successor. Their equal. But now.. but we have Star Wars KZbinrs like Thor Skywalker and Star Wars Theory. You will be removed from the stock to bring peace. Then, at last, like the so called EU, you will be cast aside.

[@LordWyatt]

‘We had such potential, such promise. But we squandered our gifts and our blind pursuit toward money and popularity only sped us closer to our doom.’ -Kathleen Kennedy, probably

[@stevennagy6341]

Sounds suspiciously similar to Palpatine's speech to Starkiller in the dark side ending of Force Unleashed, and I approve

[@medalgear654]

You had such promise. You could have been the Prequels successor.The OT’s equal. But now.. but we may still have some use of you. We have fans and Star Wars KZbinrs like Thor Skywalker and Star Wars Theory to write their own. You will do my biding until I find a new sequel trilogy. And Then, like the EU, you will be cast aside.

[@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45]

@@stevennagy6341 It totally is.

[@TheKPhillip]

IMO, Kylo Ren needed two key changes to make him truly work: 1) He needed a rivalry with Hux for Snoke’s approval based on something concrete, not on the need for comedy. 2) He needed substantial screen time with Leia in TLJ. I say these two because the first would have provided a true opportunity to flesh out his core motivations (by way of contrast), while the second would have provided an opportunity to understand his backstory, his relationship and his grievances with the protagonists. Kylo Ren plays the role of a villain in this trilogy - there’s not much more to actually do with him (just compare with Vader’s actual screen time), but what matters is his characterization and his significance to the other characters and the story. TFA makes him very significant, but TLJ only makes him a plot point to explain Luke’s failure. He is mostly irrelevant in TROS. But yes, Rey constantly beating him undercuts his threat, and I think you’re right, making him more controlled would have been much better than making him a much more exaggerated version of Anakin/Vader (as they did with the rest of the film).

[@JesusHasRisen1]

Can Kylo please have Sith eyes? It would show how far he's fallen and would make it look cooler too

[@isapo6694]

Purpose and resolve. I like your idea for Kylo a lot. Also THANK YOU for addressing the temper tantrum. That seriously ruined Kylo for me and I haven't been able to see him as a serious threat since then. The whole idea of him being more focused and in control of his anger sounds really intriguing.

[@GrandAdmiralFart]

I loved his story in 7. He wants to be dark, but is torn. He kills Han, which is his decision to go dark, but is still torn, therefore he is defeated. 8 should have been about him embracing the dark side fully and overpowering (not tricking) Snoke, therefore he becomes the master. Smoke could have been toying with Rey, and Ren saves he by obliterating Snoke. Now his goal is set. "I will finish what you started" is about resurrecting Vader (Vader wanted to resurrect Padme). 9 should have been about him realizing that he doesn't need Vader, because he is now more powerful, and darker than Vader. Vader was weaker. His goal is to kill the last Jedi and Rey. Have him kill or at least defeat Luke to show how powerful he truly has become, now Rey has a true enemy to defeat. Maybe have Rey lose against him, but he is defeated by an orbital bombardment or something like that. In his rage and pride, he failed to see the big picture. True, he was more powerful but pride is his downfall.

[@mazkeraid4039]

He should also kill Finn considering that he also betrays the First Order.

[@GrandAdmiralFart]

@@mazkeraid4039 to kill or not to kill Finn is not significant (at least in the way we got it). He aimed to kill when he wounded Finn in 7. Finn is small potatoes to Kylo Ren (at least in this version of him). Also, Finn had his own enemy with Phasma and Poe could've had his own enemy with Hux if they wanted to do it that way

[@starwrs3468]

I think a really good idea would be to not reveal his identity. He should remain under the mask and there should be an air of mystery about him. This also means that Han shouldn’t die. At least not until episode 9.

[@critica77y77]

Here's my idea. Instead of his poorly-handled redemption non-arc in Episode IX, have Kylo become convinced that the Jedi and the Sith must both die for the good of the galaxy. Have him destroy every repository of Jedi or Sith knowledge he could find, and try to kill Rey, the Knights of Ren, and himself in a murder-suicide. It might not be the best idea for an antagonist, but it would be better than what we actually got.

[@saphiriathebluedragonknight375]

So Darth Traya?

[@saphiriathebluedragonknight375]

What happened to my profile pic?

[@critica77y77]

@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 Not exactly, but a similar idea.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

That's probably the most interesting suggestion I've seen. Although, really, I would've been happy if they'd just handled what they actually did/did have better - regardless of whether they have him a redemption or not. (Also, nix the even more poorly handled romantic subplot. Please. And probably just have a significantly different Episode 9, overall, too.😅🙃🤣🤣)

[@I-Maser]

Instead of having Finn be Kylos Rex, he should be some new Elite guy in Kylos top ten, because otherwise it doesnt make sence that Finn deserts after being told to kill Civilians, as it seems Kylo and his Troops wouldnt do that for the First time.

[@steverogerrogers411]

"Make Finn the Rex to Kylo", man that's awesome

[@mibo250401]

Honestly, when I listened to this version of the relationships between Finn and Kylo, I got genuinely excited and felt my blood rush. And most Star Wars content never caused a reaction like that. I loved it and can’t wait to see where your story will go next.

[@jasonanderson2508]

I like your idea of a calm Kylo ren who is confident in who he is and his abilities. As for real Kylo the fact that he’s being “torn apart” makes him seem weak to me but is why it’s so great to see him truly come into his own when he joins the light side.

[@KatieGimple]

I thought it would be really cool if they showed Kylo's pull to the light and Rey's pull to the dark, and at the end of TLJ they ended up turning each other, so in it's sequel Kylo would be the protagonist and Rey would be the villain.

[@chriswentz5197]

Y e s Y e s Y e s *Y E S*

[@sirticklebear5983]

To change the scene where Ben kills Han, I think it could have mirrored the "I am your father scene" in which Han reveals to the audience of their relationship. As Ben is now much more in check with his emotions, he would calmly say something like "you were never my father" before killing Han. This shows that he has 100% shed his previous life and attachments, something not even Vader could do

[@40kthrawn30]

I cant wait to hear you finish your version

[@haydenmmm]

Hey! I’ve found myself really enjoying your channel, it makes me think more, and I think you articulate your opinions extremely well. So, I subscribed! One of the rare cases where the KZbinr doesn’t try to shove it down my throat that I should sub, so I actually do! Thanks for making great content!

[@stevennagy6341]

What I thought should have been done with Kylo is have his story play out like Starkiller's. Raised in darkness to be a perfect sith, but be tempted to the light then try to bring retribution to those who made him evil in the first place. In opposition to Anikan who was raised in the light then was seduced to the dark side and brought destruction to those who cared for him.

[@mr.niceguy3993]

Great video Thor! Any updates on that sequel project of yours, of how you envisioned the sequels? The more I watch these sequel related videos, the more I am excited and interested in seeing your spin on it. Keep up the good work!

[@SkanteAddict]

I would’ve liked to see Rey turn to the dark side and Kylo embracing the good in him. Have Rey almost kill Ben but he was able to escape and then he seeks out the help of Luke even though he betrayed him. Have Luke train him and show Ben seek out to his grandfather Anakin for advice to overcome his struggles as he once did. Then have Ben confront Rey and Snoke in episode 9 only for Rey to be converted back to the light by killing snoke and having them build a whole new jedi council in the end

[@SkanteAddict]

I literally wrote out the entire trilogy holy but what I meant to say is have Kylo instead of becoming what Vader could not have him become what Anakin couldn’t. A badass Jedi master

[@budgetlifter]

Adam Driver really carried all of this

[@MasterTim1127]

I like the concept. Kylo Ren was already my favorite character in the sequels. This story would just amplify that.

[@jknetwork6211]

Off topic but just wanted to say that Star Wars as crazy as it’s been as inspired me to write my own sci fi fantasy story. Same with your videos Thor so thanks 👍.

[@thorskywalker]

Awesome to hear. And I wish you the best of luck with it.

[@jknetwork6211]

@@thorskywalker appreciate it. Wish you luck on your sequel project as well.

[@mattboy2313]

You have any idea what it's going to be about?

[@jknetwork6211]

@@mattboy2313 yeah my first idea is to have it be similar to modern sci fi final fantasy (like 7 or 15) where there’s magic, monsters, science, gods and so on. Don’t want to give away too much of the main premise since I’m not done but it’s mostly another hero’s journey story about the main character traveling the world with a group of misfits fighting an evil empire. That’s the simplification to it but there’s more I’m working on to differentiate itself from other stories that do this. Like one of the main integral parts of the story is revolving around the gods of the story and how they’re history and legacy affected the world both in good and bad ways.

[@mattboy2313]

@@jknetwork6211 Sounds great! Good luck!

[@kysonchilds8635]

The whole time I was watching this (especially during the Finn dynamic) I was like wow that would be amazing you really show how good they could have been thank you

[@marcusarnold9175]

So basically Thor you want Ben to be Jason Solo and Finn to be Kyle Katarn.

[@gavinsmith9871]

Ben should have been lightside and the main character from the start. He's the Skywalker of the era, it should have been his story.

[@christianbryan7474]

Maybe he also could have fallen, at some point, like Anakin, but perhaps also had a sybling to help bring him back, like Luke. Truly a combination of the 2 previous trilogies main characters.

[@stardustskywalker7327]

Omg right?? Kathleen Kennedy was too fixated on bringing down the patriarchy and she was so in your face obvious about it that the trilogy if one can indeed call it that (it was more like Rian Johnson and jar jar playing tic tac toe and jar jar won) it was all so laughable that it was actually very sad

[@TACmoney514]

I like it. I would also have added that with Kylo being able to keep his temper and harness his anger, he would also show (on screen) more dark side abilities & strength. Have a Force Unleashed "type moment" and have a dark side, side quest like Luke had with Yoda... only for Dark users.

[@sirticklebear5983]

Making Finn be like a captain rex who deserts would have been amazing

[@MCsCreations]

It's sounding amazing!

[@SilverSpireZ]

Glad to see this series is back!

[@Kevin_Street]

I love this series! Thanks for doing another installment. Rigidly self disciplined Kylo is a really interesting spin on the character. Darth Vader wore a helmet because it kept him alive, it was part of the Emperor's redesign of Anakin's personality. It sounds like this version of Kylo Ren wears a helmet both as a tribute to Vader and as a sign of his commitment to discipline. Like the troops Kylo leads, he's willing to subsume his identity into whatever the First Order requires.

[@stk7778]

The image of Luke and Yoda watching it burn lol

[@mikenayers5981]

They’ll probably do it in a way where the sequels still had to happen to change the past. Like maybe Luke’s ghost can go back in time, but he can only talk to those who have been in the World Between Worlds, like Asohka.

[@jaredlocke4300]

I love your idea

[@cripple8339]

If they just made Him more restrained, not being completely under control but being more “methodical” in his outburst, not destroying his own things, but going out of his way to punish people who insult him. As an example, have the village scene originally have been just as a retrieval mission, but when dameron acts out in defiance, he then orders the entire village to be burnt down. You can then have the rest of the scene play out while the village is ablaze, and as they leave In the drop-ship, the last building crumbles, and then the bolt unfreezes. He also should have smacked the shit out of Rey and Finn.

[@goombathegrey2664]

I like what where you’re going with this version.

[@theholk]

Kylo just never got that he wasn't actually chosen for his qualities, but as a griefpick to get Luke out of the way.

[@chumbucket9442]

Kylo Ren is the least intiminating dark jedi I have ever seen.

[@buskergirl]

Conflicted Kylo is a good path imho. Hux was meant to be the cool headed one, versus a hot headed Kylo. Their dynamic had a very promising start. Also, Adam Driver said in an interview that Kylo was supposed to be a backwards Vader: Vader started off all powerful and ended up emotional, and Kylo were to start off conflicted, and find his way by the end.

[@cristinastan217]

I think Kylo keeping his cool when the officer tells hin Finn has escaped would be a little contradictory to when he confronts Finn. I think it would be better if Kylo's fist twitched for a moment and then he throws a tantrum but only after the officer leaves with new orders on how to proeed.

[@theinvisibleskulk4563]

Here's an idea for not letting Rey beat Kylo while changing the story minimally. Have the quest be about finding a way to contact Luke to get him to come to them. Have it be Poe and Finn who do this, while Rey trains using a training remote set up by Luke before he disbanded the New Jedi Order, much like the one on the Millennium Falcon in the first movie. Have knowing how to run the training remote be the full extent of Leia's Force power. The Resistance succeeds, but as soon as Luke is on his way they have to start the assault on Starkiller Base immediately for one reason or another. Have Anakin's Force spirit pop out of his old lightsaber to trigger Rey's Force awakening. Rey's the only Force user the Resistance has (which means Leia can't be a trained Force user too, changing RoS, but you're doing that too) so after Kylo kills his father Rey gets sent out to prevent Kylo from stopping the effort to destroy the base in one way or another. Rey manages to hold her own but, even with her Force awakening, she gradually loses focus and is close to losing when Luke comes along and it's him who beats Kylo. He's badly injured in the process, though, and is more unable to train Rey than unwilling in the next movie. He may even be heavily prosthetized like Darth Vader was after his loss to Obi-Wan, weakening his Force skills even more.

[@SquirtMac17]

Kylo’s story “could” have been a lot darker in the trilogy for sure however there is a place for everything. Not every villain needs to be the same in every story, having variation is refreshing. I LOVE Kylo’s character in all the episodes down to how they decided to end it. It actually made me sad because I was so attached to that character. Everyone has their cup of tea and some like a dash of cream 😜

[@SquirtMac17]

@Aeternalis Armentarius that’s the point I’m making 😅😂

[@liljenborg2517]

I don't mind that Kylo was conflicted. The problem is that we don't really know what he's conflicted about. We don't know why he's chosen to try and finish what Vader started. We don't know what lies that Snoke has fed him to con him into embracing the power of the Dark Side (that is, we don't know what Kylo thinks Vader "started" he feels so driven to "finish"). We don't know what corruption or failing in the New Republic that led Kylo to decide to burn it all down and join in Snoke's own version of the Empire that is built on the back of kidnapped children brainwashed into being conscienceless, obedient killing machines. (This is all backstory hidden in JJ Abrams empty "Mystery Boxes" that he, apparently, never figured out.) Having your main villain questioning whether or not he's doing the right thing could make him even more villainous, if we see him consistently choosing to move further and further down the dark path; if we see the good intentions paving his road to hell.

[@yu-gi-ohcasual6294]

He should've been like you portrayed him: Vader to the extreme. Kylo doesn't have much to go off emulating his grandfather so it makes sense that he'd craft the image of an almost mechanical, unfeeling man on a mission. Your interpretation was what should have hit the big screen.

[@jimmyknoxville4709]

This is such a better story than the original version!

[@fabiothefwad4340]

Ooooh that would have been awesome if Kylo and Finn had that Anakin/Rex relationship. Damn. Well maybe someone will make an off brand Star Wars and give us all these great ideas.

[@moisetibasima1354]

I really like that idea. Kylo being calmer and more tamed than Vader makes him more terrifying, it also shows how hard he's trying to keep all of his love for Han and Leia burried. In the final movie he could have a mental breakdown from holding on to all those emotions. I'm using this idea for Finn in a story taking place after the sequels.

[@zygas658]

It's kind of weird if you think about it, because for many people (not particularly me) the best movies of each trilogy were: For the Prequels, revenge of the sith, the third one, for the Originals, empire strikes back, the second one, and for the Sequels, force awakens, the first one. Honestly, sort of poetic if you ask me

[@M567dk]

Your take on the character is better than what the movies gave up.

[@samkathryn4825]

I don’t know if you’re going to do a video for Poe, but I feel they kissed an opportunity to make him Leia’s successor in more than one way. During the movies, he reminded me a lot of Jaina, though without Force powers. He was sort of a mix of Han and Leia. I think it would’ve been interesting if he (or a character in place of him) was Kylo’s sibling. Then, someone in the family would be alive in the galaxy at the end (if Luke, Leia, and Kylo still die) and he is tied more to the Legacy of Star Wars. One of the things that disappointed me most was that it seemed contrived and convenient every character but Kylo JUST HAPPENED to get pulled into this. I mean, Luke and Leia were involved in the original trilogy because of who they were, Luke as the one Obi Wan and Yoda expected to defeat Vader and Leia because of her role on Alderaan (which led her to the resistance) as well as being Vader’s daughter. It would have been nice to have more of a connection between the original trilogy characters (or even prequel characters) and the sequel characters. It’s also interesting that Poe and Leia don’t seem particularly close in TFA, but they clearly have a good (and close) relationship in TLJ and TROS. That’s one of the few things I think Rian Johnson did quite well.

[@GabiBrooks]

I'd love to see Thor as a guest in Star Wars Theory's podcast. Let's make a petition, guys!

[@OneGrungDM]

Obviously this would be a much more I’m depth rewrite than what you’re probably going for, but when you mention that line from the trailer and compared Kyle Ren to Thanos, this thought just came to my mind that I think would have made a much more compelling Sequel Trilogy. Kyle Ren sets out to bring balance to the force, to finish what his grandfather started, but his interpretation of bringing balance to the force is warped/twisted. He believes he must wipe out every other force user (and in the end himself) because by having living beings use the force, in his mind, is corrupting it. The Trilogy would then center on our heroes trying to stop him in this respect as he goes around slaughtering force users, some of them innocents who didn’t even know they were force users. You could even have the heroes split on how to handle him, some thinking he merely needs to be shown the light of what the force really is. You could even tie in Luke cutting himself off from the force too, if you still wanted to go that route, while he looks for a solution to bring Kyle to an understanding of what true balance to the force means.

[@TimeKitt]

I'd go for doubling down on finishing what Vader started, and learning about Vader turning on Palpatine, and Palpatine being still alive leading to his side change, not weird angst.

[@xlrouge]

🐸”Mmmh!! Great ideas Thor Skywalker has!”

[@johnthompkins9593]

Kylo resolve should've been firm like his granddaddy. Instead of his tantrum , he force grabs the officer chokes him tells him to find them then release the officer.

[@samueljackson315]

I would only change one thing. Have him be calm and strong in private but still be conflicted and dealing with resisting what he saw as the seduction of the light side because that was compelling. He needed some compelling purpose for wanting to push away the light and embrace the darkness; something that he’d do anything to accomplish. He also needed to be an unmatched swordsman and a very powerful force user and it looked like he was when he started doing things with the force we’d not seen before like the force freeze and mind reading until we saw Rey do those things first try and then beat him.

[@jediryan9454]

At the end the biggest fault of Kylo Ren was that he ended up being Ben Solo. Why the hell did another Skywalker have to be a dark side user? That family is cursed.

[@jessicaa4901]

Some of the character traits you outline (composure, respect for his subordinates) also bear something of a resemblance to Thrawn. It would be cool to see some similarities to what was once, in a sense, the sequel trilogy.

[@byrnespeed]

Clever idea about putting Finn as the Squad or Platoon leader. If you want to get more implications. Ren should have sensed that Finn was forced sensitive and we could have had a few scenes where they are training lightsaber combat. Then we could have a flashback where Ren saved Finn. This would give a lot more emotion to the '' traitor '' scream from Kilo. That and the Stormtrooper that call's him traitor as well. Finn should have been part of an elite bataillon or platton whatever with some special uniform markings so this way, even the stormtrooper would feel betrayed. Makes a lot more sence that way than having a million + soldiers and every single one of em are aware that 2187 went awol and joined the rebellion. I don't get why they coudn't get 2 new force sensitive caracters. Rey being a Palpatine and joining him in ROTS having to fight Finn and Ben would have been so much more emotionnal. Maybe killing one of em would have made her snap back to the light and then kill Palpy...what do you think guys???

[@LoreMIpsum-vs6dx]

The Kylo Ren of the trailer and the first scene was immediately iconic. His body language, his command, his abilities, his story. I was all in. He wasn't totally killed off for me until Rian Johnson reduced him to a "boy in a mask" by Snoke. He even made the modulation of his voice break and crack in that scene. I will forever loathe Johnson for that -- among many things.

[@DMisigoy]

I also can't go without saying that Kylo & Han's two scenes were the best in the entire trilogy.

[@linrichardson8250]

The problem with making your villain conflicted and obsessed with vader, is that that's a small step away from being an indecisive wannabe. Ultimately, the audience needs to be afraid of the villain, and because of these (and his endless defeats to rey and later luke) the audience simply isn't afraid of him. TFA has already shown that he was conflicted and potentially redeemable - they didn't need to continue doing that into TLJ. People hate the fact they brought back Palpatine, but TLJ made that necesarry - Kylo just wasn't enough of a threat to carry a third film. Ultimately, Kylo is a thinly veiled metaphor for what Disney thinks of Star Wars fans - an angry young man obsessed with the past. They repeatedly have other characters “teach him a lesson” because they think they need to teach us a lesson, just like they need to have rey win everything to make a statement about women. But this completely undermines him as a villain, rey's hero's journey, and thus the whole trilogy. Fans never wanted a self-aware postmodern dismantling of star wars. They just wanted a cohesive trilogy of films about space wizards that fit into the existing universe. The small changes I would make are in TLJ: 1) Kylo happily attempts to kill Leia, foreshadowing to the viewer that he is now beyond redemption 2) He lures rey to come to him by suggesting he might be saveable, but when she arrives it becomes clear that this was simply a trick to get her help to defeat snoke. He captures Rey and this becomes the cliffhangar for the final film 3) Luke actually comes to Crait, and is killed by Kylo in a fair fight. I would also make other small changes elsewhere, like having Kylo defeat Rey in TFA. When Finn returns with the hacker to disable the tracking device, they discover that there is no tracking device - instead Holdo is a spy who has been passing their destination to the first order - this gives the Kanto Bight sequence meaning: it still doesn't save them, but it leads to an important plot revelation. I would also remove scenes like Holdo's warp-kill, Finn's failed sacrifice etc. The TLJ we got is a film where the villains win despite being made to look like idiots, but the rebels lose despite all being made to look like skilled heroes - and this is why it's unsatisfying and sets TROS up horribly. These changes turn it into a film where the rebels are defeated by their own failings and the skill of the villains, and the final film becomes an tantalising last shot at redemption.

[@MandaloreIII]

Kylo was the real Skywalker. He turned just like Vader, redeeming himself before he died. Shame they couldn’t save the film.

[@giokazephyn354]

“Embraces his anger and hate, but is able to completely control it and harness it” Sounds like someone who should use a purple lightsaber.

[@rmansfield6]

The only reason Kylo had the best arc was because literally no one else had a consistent or logical arc for all three movies

[@unraveldbag9895]

I think what made Kylo interesting to me was the fact that in a way he was the opposite of anakin Vader regretted his path, wished for things to be how they were, and wanted nothing more than to be out of the suit, free But Kylo CHOSE to be like vader he isnt a slave to his choices, he doesn't have to temper his rage. All he wants is that power, but the good in him makes him unbalanced The moment he rejects being Vader, to be his own man, would have made him everything palpatine wanted for Anakin, strong, emotional, and uncompromised Vader was held down by his suit, kylo had broken free, not by love, but by pain, suffering He could have been great But there was no consistent vision

[@joshuamueller3206]

I sorta thought Kylo Ren screaming traitor at Finn was a Sith manipulation technique to get Finn to attack him, so Kylo can kill him easily. This might be undone though because if i remember right Kylo charges Finn shortly after instead of letting Finn make the first move.

[@ontasbulent5709]

What I was hoping or in my opinion would have been betterfor Kylo what TLJ kinda did is that he isn’t as powerful as Vader force wise but mentally. That he turns full on bad guy and is conflicted but then goes through with. He kills Han, hates Luke and is kinda responsible for his mother’s death having no reason to turn back. It would be like a reverse Vader

[@blufox3900]

I like the idea of Kylo being the same in TFA. He's torn, he's unsure, he's beaten. Snoke in TLJ ridicules him, berates him, tells him he's no Vader, and never will be. Again, Kylo becomes so frustrated he kills Snoke, leaving him to become the First Order's supreme leader. However, this is when Kylo reinforces his resolve. He tells Rey he's no Vader, and instead he'll be BETTER than Vader. Rey doesn't believe it, just like in the end of TLJ, but instead in TROS, Kylo is still Kylo. He doesn't waver, he doesn't fix his helmet. He'll control his anger and resolve and become even more terrifying than Darth Vader, unable to be turned.

[@DarthKato]

Your Kylo sounds sort of similar to Griffith in the manga Berserk.

[@justinschultheisz4673]

I believe an interesting move that the sequels could have taken in terms of story would be to have the Sith species return. Perhaps have them introduced somewhat like the Yuuzhan Vong. Maybe even have Kylo go from a wannabe Lord of the Sith to a legitimate Lord among the Sith. The rest of the story could take many different turns, but this is just something I’ve thought of in recent months, something I believe would’ve been more interesting and original than The Empire 2.0

[@acolyte1363]

They got Kylo's look perfect, even the voice which is why I wish he hadn't took the mask off till at least the end of the second film. Imagine Luke actually fighting Kylo, his mask is broke like Vader's was in rebels and that makes Luke hesitate and allows Kylo to strike

[@durim187]

3:40 it would work because of rule of two and the nature of the dark side. That means its expected to be two Sith and them to try and rule the universe. I would like if Ren ran the Universe with iron fist and Snoke experimenting with the force, like Plageious the wise.

[@prabeshgurung1067]

Not only does his far more composed version sound more interesting, it suprisgnly fits in well with his design. His helmet is far more sleek and his attire, no his whole aesthetic, is inspired by knights. He even has his own kinghts of the round table.

[@luccagrillo7260]

when thor skywalker changes your head cannon…

[@BuffaloFeather]

Guilty tormented haunted Kylo after Ep 8 would be the most interesting, I think. But not the colin trevaro script. Just kylo seeing (literally hallucinating or the Force playing tricks on his eyes to get him to turn back to the light) the Falcon, his Mom and Dad, Luke, Chewie, his former classmates, Rey during the war; distracting him from his "hero-moments" in battle. Becoming his own "mustache-twirling bad guy" barking orders as Supreme Leader but not doing it well because he can't bring himself to blow up the Falcon. That's what I wanted from Ep 9. More of how he was in his Shuttle at the end of Ep 8. Helmet off. Yelling furiously: "Blow that piece of junk... OUT OF THE SKY!" But Luke kinda shakes him after their duel. But being a better Vader couldve been great too.

[@jgr7487]

I just love the idea of a Kylo Ren who starts looking strong, but is torn apart inside. I believe that KR was really killed is when Disney didn't allow him to grow darker & firmer as the trilogy went along. yes, Finn should have been higher in the hierarchy, but just high enough so KR would know him. (maybe Finn could have been Phasma's right hand?) Kylo screaming "Traitor!" was more a sign of him seeing his own weakness in Finn than anything else, which's quite common in psychology.

[@liammckenney6792]

the arc in TFA and TLJ was close to working. I think that they should have taken the route that once Kylo killed han, his mind was made up. he would end up killing Snoke, but not to let the past die. It would be to cut the strings on him, to let nothing keep him from the legacy of Vader.

[@aussiebeermoney1167]

best arc was when rose died in a pit of lava after being put in front of firing squad for cheesy lines

[@user-je7ve7vm2j]

Finn's attitude and relationship with the first order needs to be established more before he leaves it.

[@noobikenoobi5580]

I personally never understood the design behind Kylo Ren. For someone trying to mimic Vader he doesn’t do it very well. He doesn’t have a full cape nor does he have armor in TFA. This may just be nit picking but I never understood why Kylo wouldn’t wear armor

[@MAC-ie7xu]

Can you give an update on your completely original sequel trilogy you're making? Are you guys still recording, or are you all done? When can we expect to see that?

[@thorskywalker]

Still working on pretty much all of it, to be honest. We originally wanted to release the whole thing in the spring but we may release it in parts starting before that.

[@thorskywalker]

Him just surviving the bowcaster already basically makes him super human considering what it's done to others throughout the movie, so I'm unsure what your point even is?

[@madeusedward0049]

Benjamin Augustine I see your point. Honestly I don’t get why that didn’t kill him considering it’s power, but Kylo Ren was trained by Luke skywalker and Palpatine/snake his whole life, two of the most powerful beings in the galaxy, and this was his first lightsaber duel in the movie. He should’ve won to show his power and establish him as a threat, so maybe not shoot him with the bow caster to do so. Instead Kylo really doesn’t seem intimidating when he lost his first fight in the trilogy

[@MAC-ie7xu]

@@thorskywalker Have you run into more difficulties than you were expecting?

[@thorskywalker]

Not really. I honestly didn't expect it to be a perfectly smooth and easy process. The good part is that everyone involved is fully committed and we will get it done... eventually.

[@cadbane4169]

I wish the ending where the Father of Mortis telling anakin force ghost to fight Sidious and anakin get his full potential and kill sidious and lose his identity in the force and disappear but saved the universe

[@freshevo]

I think one big missed opportunity for Ren was when he finally spoke to Luke again and that could have been such a big moment for him to finally let go fully into the dark side blaming Luke for failing him that sent him on this path to his father's death and then that's when you get this iconic line " I Hate You " eyes slowly turn full sith

[@elinoirsmythe224]

I think the idea of Kylo being a Vader wannabe is fine in principle - done properly, it would keep the so-called Skywalker saga with the Skywalker family, and would add something to Anakin's overall story giving him a presence in all three trilogies. But in order for it to work, it's really crucial to get some backstory for what exactly Luke, Leia and Han have told him about Anakin/Vader, and that was completely lacking in the sequel trilogy. We would also need to see Anakin's ghost, or some sort of fake Anakin ghost which has been used to manipulate Ben by someone evil, or something. The main problem with Kylo's arc in the movies was that he seemed to flip-flop between wanting to be Vader and not particularly wanting to be Vader, but without any explanation for why he would want to be either.

[@deborahminter6231]

I think it would have been more interesting to have a character who was essentially extremely different than Vader. What sounds like a good plot point would be a grandson with Anakin's power and potential but is conflicted and refuses to become Vader. It would have been better If the writers had planned ahead of time to create Kylo to be a more light sided character. Personally I don't think we had to have another Anakin repeat.