Turning with a Slip | (not for student pilots) Using flaps for drag and lift

In this video we'll take a look at controlling the airplane with more aggressive forward slips and slipping while turning towards the landing area (or runway). We'll also look at using flaps to increase or decrease drag, as well as increase and decrease lift. This video is a peak into our Tailwheel pilot flying course that goes beyond just flying around paved runways and starts bringing in techniques you can use at off-airport strips. This is not meant for student pilots!
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[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

Forward Slip. For safety i keep the Vfinal even if I know the pitot tube is slanted and indicating less speed. In a low uncoordinated turn specially is better to keep Vfinal so I dont get too slow while low and also uncoordinated. As a former DC3 pilot, except on warm weather, we used to do a forward slip on approach so we could keep the 20" of manifold pressure on the fragile cylinders on those old engines. Good video..

[@89faul]

Great video! Weather permitting I'll solo tomorrow in a Champ. I've been taught to use slips from the beginning. It's a great way to drop altitude, and it's a blast!

[@N98858]

Good Tips... haven't done a slip for altitude loss for about 30 years when I purchased a 1947 J3 Piper Cub (N3461K) as a Fathers Day Gift for my Dad the last year of his life! ';-( Sad, but GOOD Memory...

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

04:55 (You said to put Full Flaps to lift it). Im a Bush Pilot CFI. I suggest not put full flaps on take off unless you have a lot of horsepower, which not on that airplane. You actually put around 20 degrees which are still mostly "Lift Flaps" there. Full Flaps are mostly Drag Flaps unless you have a lot of full power horsepower to push more air around them and overcome the full flaps drag. The heavier the plane the higher the flaps to be Lift Flaps and vice versa. is good to clarify with the student what conditions can lead Lift Flaps to become Drag Flaps on the same airplane. Contact me for more details, if..

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Yes sir, The higher the Density Altitude Or the higher the weight THE HIGHER THE FLAPS to use on take off. With higher Density Alt. lift flaps become Drag Flaps due less power to overcome the flaps drag portion of flap usage.. Good.. Henry above was my student in year 2000.

[@ronnieandpatriciamackinnon4958]

When u say ,higher density or heavier aircraft requires higher flaps. Do u mean more flap? Example,my warrior when empty I use 2 notches to pop up. Would I use 3 notches if I was at max gross? Thank you.

[@cq7415]

Nicely shown and explained. Thanks for sharing.

[@lowslow3612]

Man, I love your videos. I'm trying to become a CFI and I like watching how you explain things. It wasn't mentioned, but maybe that's because it's obvious, but every turn is naturally a slip until you add rudder to coordinate it. Also, I love that beautiful Cessna 140!

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Good luck on the CFI training!!!! Shoot us a msg when you pass your ride and we'll send ya a CFI kit!!!

[@KevinBradberry1]

Great tips always, well narrated and demonstrated..

[@raymondkoonce5827]

I learned the slip for altitude descent as an Aviation Cadet in USAF in 1960. Doing it in the pattern is a little on the dangerous side without a tower or at least checking visually for traffic. Recipe for a mid-air.

[@Adrian-qt6qr]

Side-slipping is very useful tool if you're taught (like me) to do the approach with no throttle. Getting too much used to use enginge to correct a lower approach can be an issue if your engine quits. Learning to master side-slipping makes simulated engine failure emergency landings much more controllable... and really fun.

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

For sure!

[@socalbilly1]

As a student I had an instructor demonstrate to me how you can lose a few hundred feet of altitude even when the plane is already almost over the end of the runway and still touchdown just past the numbers with a beautiful greased landing! He had the plane nearly sideways and dropping like a rock, (he did have tower’s permission for this). It left my mouth hanging open, I’ll tell you, but it sure demonstrated what you can do.

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

YOu can also pop some Lift Flaps on turns you want to tighten a bit more, or to lower the stalling speeds for safety. We did that on Crop Dusting low turns too.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

And it is a lot of fun too... Roll into the turn, pop more flaps and enjoy the roll..

[@JonathanGurgul]

If anything you’d want to learn this AS A STUDENT first with an instructor. If you’re already at least a private pilot and are not proficient at slips, it’s still a good idea to go up with a good CFI first. Base to final turns while extremely uncoordinated can get bad real quick.

[@mikecrook8434]

As a student pilot, I had the great privilege of being taught several techniques by an old aerobatic pilot. One technique, in particular, was how to do a turning slip to land if I was in a hurry to land quickly when finishing the downwind leg and preparing to turn base to final. Full flaps. Full right rudder. Left aileron (adjusted to the amount of turn desired). Push forward on the yoke and hold the descent speed at 70 knots. These four actions got performed simultaneously. From comments I heard later, the wings of the Cessna 172 looked like a knife blade coming down from the sky. It was a fun experience. I got to do the maneuver many times.

[@Somethingisntright64]

I also learned the turning slip early on in my training by an old time pilot, best maneuver ever learned to make me a confident pilot.

[@TheTerrypcurtin]

Remeber airspeed is critical. It's amazing how fast airspeed also bleeds off. It's easy to have an approach stall. Keep the nose down too.

[@davidwallace5738]

Thank you sir for posting

[@sandyhutton7222]

Thanks for the video. Im just about to begin flying a SuperCub. Ive done lots of sideslips in Cesnas and Ive no fear of them at all. As for the doom and gloom merchants, get some spin training in. Yes its intense but well worth it.

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

Spins??, nooo!! noo!! we are afraid of practicing spins.. Hey, USA civilian pilots dont need to know spins well, naaahh!!

[@iPilotFlorida]

thanks for the reminder...

[@turboromy]

I was doing a check ride for tailwheel and aerobatic. Passed everything and on landing, there was a 737 that just touched down on a parallel runway at KSNA. Saw tire smoke but I never thought I should NOT fly through that smoke coming to my runway. Instructor took over and made immediate climb over it, then did a wildest and lowest altitude slip I've seen to slow down. I failed that check ride.

[@n124lp]

There is a typo in the description. ("peak" vs. "peek")

[@NetAndyCz]

What do you mean not for a student pilots, I am student and when I asked my instructor about wanting to learn slips he showed me how to perform them and that turning in slip is perfectly safe and rather useful.

[@defaultgamer34857]

Didn’t want student pilots to mistake this for instruction and try it on their first solo?

[@user-so8nj3ln7m]

The fwd slip is a high drag manouver, so it should be mentioned that the drag is reduced when kicking out of it and aligning with the runway, which gives the a/c more boyancy (elevator authority). Be ready for the a/c to balloon during the flare.

[@Keys879]

I fly a C152 that does not want to land and have taken to removing flaps at the latter half of ground effect to "weld and grease" the landing. Never really considered popping the flaps for takeoff though.

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

I do that since 1979. Pop flaps at Vx, Cut flaps on flare.. Lots of fun. I was a Bush Pilot CFi later on. Surprised many "old pilots" with those flap tricks.. Those tricks can save your skin too..

[@ozziepilot2899]

Great tips. I'm taking re-currency training after a long break, I instinctively slipped from a high final but with full flaps, instructor was not happy with this, felt that too much lateral stress on the flaps as a result, what's your take on this ? I was in a C172SP . Thanks again, love the videos and their information.

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Really no such thing as "lateral stress" on flaps. Some of the older C172 warned in the POH against slipping with full (40 degrees) flaps, but in my limited experience with 172s, I could never replicate the tail stall that was the reason to not slip with 40 flap. Personally I have no problem with a student using full flap (30 in the new 172s) and doing a full rudder deflection slip.

[@ozziepilot2899]

Thank you , good to know.

[@ChiDraconis]

@@ozziepilot2899 the the tail stall on a T-tail design is important to not just take anyone's advice • I concur with 8MA here as I have not seen nor heard of any basis to avoid slips at 40° Flaps in 172 other than they are large for practical and thus having the Barn Doors fully-down at extremes it seems to me at that we are beyond POH norms anyway - so why any reason to slip since the 40° Flaps in 172 will do all that can be done - other than stunting which is another subject entirely; Not any part of standard training; I suggest study of Dutch Roll as an oscillating vortex and obtain FAA Examiners Handbook for Commercial;

[@jandejong2430]

In a turn only TOP RUDDER please!

[@robertbreen6971]

Jon, on your base-to-final left turn it looked like you had your right-hand down. I assumed therefore that you were applying left-rudder as you were still demonstrating the slip. Surely this implies a skidding turn instead of a slipping turn (and higher danger)? I was expecting to see left airleron and right-rudder during that left turn which I understand to be safer way to dispense of some altitude during a turn. Or was your rudder neutral during that turn? Thanks.

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

On the base to final turn if I'm trying to loose altitude I prefer to skid (same principle-ish). Might be slightly less safe, but stalling cross controlled that close to the ground is going to be a bad day whether you're slipping or skidding. I prefer the skid for better visibility of other airplanes around me....and simply control your angle of attack precisely... (That's why this one was titled not for student pilots).

[@MarcoFonseca]

Yep, I have noticed too, there is a skid turn instead of a slip turn. In slip turns you have to kick the pedal which is outside of the turn. If you are applying rudder to the side of the turn, and cross controlling the ailerons to the otherside, you are in a really bad situations if stalls.

[@bulamoves2987]

Did exactly this for my quarterly training and our assistant chief was telling me i was skidding and not slipping. From my knowledge, i was cross controlled to descend which in my head is a slip. After doing more research from what im reading, it is still considered a slip. Yes the ball is on the outside of the turn but we are slipping which results in turning from the base to final. Slipping in the other direction would be much more difficult to get aligned on final when you recover. In other words, if it were a skid to lose altitude it would have been left rudder and correcting ailerons to prevent the overbanking tendency which is not the goal because we are trying to bank to lose the altitude. Other thoughts please let me know. Open for discussion

[@tysonaldrich9139]

What I did not hear addressed in this video is the potential for a accelerated stall to occur. ALL of the ingredients for a spin entry are being demonstrated here

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

As long as you keep the speed at Vfinal and dont pull like crazy or in panic.. They are safe. You sound like those wimps that dont know slips and put down the brave pilots that do them and teach them..

[@MithradatesVIEupator]

Hey, do you plan on going to the Regional Airlines? Excellent videos btw.

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

I was at the regionals for almost two years....just quit! I'll be talking about it in a new vlog coming out next week!

[@UTarcher72]

I'm very interested in the upcoming vlog. Going corporate side?

[@garywheeler2055]

Adapa keep teaching !!!

[@MithradatesVIEupator]

Had no idea! You truly have charisma when it comes to teaching and explaining. No matter what you end up doing, I'm sure you'll do well. Keep at it.

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

@@MithradatesVIEupator appreciate that! I had a blast at the regionals and will make some videos about it! Just excited now to help the next round of guys get to the right seat of a hey and get to experience it!!!

[@patrikj]

If there's a crosswind, don't you *by definition* keep the slip all the way to the ground? If you keep the plane aligned with the runway and the upwind wing down, you're slipping...

[@mytech6779]

you can do that. However In larger planes you fly level without slip, just as you would at cruise with crosswinds, and straighten just before touchdown with only enough aileron to keep the wings level.

[@rammstein1903]

I think in the video he is referring to a forward slip to lose altitude versus a side slip in a crosswind landing.

[@AV8R_Surge]

When I slip I feel I have too much vsi and bounce. I also tend to land a bit flat (c172s) What could I be doing wrong.. or missing? During my cross-country solo i thought i was on an excellent power-off approach until I bounced it. Looking at the video, I note my forward speed is ok, but vsi is high. So I assume it was the vsi and have been wondering how to better control it prior to touchdown without increasing floating distance. (@10:40 kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6ObZqavfdKbZ9U)

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

You're doing everything fine, speed is good on approach, BUT you're touching with too much speed in the airplane (still wants to fly at 50+ knots and will easily bounce off). Hold off the airplane from the runway a little longer and just try to keep it at 2 inches above the pavement as long as you can. You'll touch with a slightly more nose high attitude, but the landing will be softer and even if its the same "sink rate" there won't be any energy left in the airplane to bounce like that. Touching down at the speeds you are and then trying to "make" the airplane stick to the ground doesn't work out well (leads to bounces, porpoise, veering left and right around the runway, going off the runway, and broken nose gears). Don't feel bad at all, what you are doing can be fixed with a CFI in about .7 or .8 on the hobbs and you'll be making great landings. Everything else you're doing already looks good....

[@leoarjuncrasto]

How much flap did you put in on the take off?? Fly8MA.com Flight Training

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

He is popping around 20 degrees i see.

[@leoarjuncrasto]

Isn't there more chance to enter into a cross control stall?

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Well, yes, being cross controlled and exceeding the critical AOA, you are highly likely to get into a cross controlled stall. (Careful with your AOA!!!)

[@NetAndyCz]

You will lose height even faster in stall! :D Also some planes especially with full flaps settings are not recommended for slipping, as the control surfaces may not be as efficient.

[@__Oleg]

Forward slip and turning slip to landing is doable. We use it on a gliders, and sometimes it's the only way to land a glider on a desired spot. But it is not safe enough to recommend using in in a everyday routine. Forward slip can't be done fast, airspeed indicator isn't accurate since air stream is blowing to the side of the pito tube. Now we are flying cross-controlled and slow and we don't really know our speed and dangerously close to the ground. As someone who really like doing forward and turning slips to landing on a glider, I must admit that it is not the safest practice and a single mistake can kill you. So practice up high first. And use it only if you have no other choice (no flaps, engine out and etc.) in other cases, go with missed approach. Fly safe!

[@richardweil8813]

Definitely doable. In the commercial glider checkride I had to fly a pattern in a slip. Really had to watch the horizon to be sure of maintaining safe and proper airspeed, especially being careful to maintain enough when the spoilers came out (they slow you down). Not a normal maneuver.... Once when I was very high going into a short runway in a glider I used full slip and spoilers, gently easing the slip off and then going to half spoilers for a normal landing, all the time being darn careful to keep the speed in the right zone. Not proud of that pattern, but it did teach me to be more careful on establishing a good approach, and also showed what a serious slip can do.

[@milehiaviation]

I was surprised to see that base to final turn as a skid. I learned to fly in a Citabria, and we slip in turns and on nearly every approach, but were taught to NEVER skid a turn in the pattern. Maybe it's just me, but that seems like a counter-intuitive practice.

[@user-so8nj3ln7m]

A skidding turn uses bottom rudder, not top rudder (slipping turn)

[@milehiaviation]

@@user-so8nj3ln7m Yes, and he clearly is using left rudder and right aileron in a left turn. That’s bottom rudder. That’s a skidding base to final turn.

[@user-so8nj3ln7m]

@@milehiaviation good eye Mark. He was fighting a right crosswind and therefore had lots of right aileron even though left wing was down. So you're right, it was an inappropriate visual "demo" for students.

[@paulcrooks4467]

Cross -control ie

[@landen99]

You're popular with your passengers, I bet.

[@andyhawaii2819]

I was trained to avoid slips with flaps extended

[@airplanekid333]

But it is not prohibited

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

Some airplanes it is prohibited and/or warned against due to the possibility of inducing a tail stall. the consequence of stalling the tail is a sharp nose down pitch attitude which would reducing angle of attack and most likely fix the problem as long as you had enough altitude. For obvious reasons sudden nose down pitch attitudes caused by a tail stall due to slipping with full flaps near the ground could be problematic. Just want to know the airplane you've got and what it can and can't do....

[@lowslow3612]

Trained without explanation? Because it's an old myth. It's not a problem as long as the POH doesn't forbid it. Don't be afraid of slipping with flaps. Find a different CFI, go to a safe altitude and practice doing it in your airplane so you know what it looks, sounds, and feels like. It's a technique/skill that might save your life someday.

[@n124lp]

Did you train in an older Cessna 172? I remember a few decades ago there was a lot of discussion in the aviation press about bad things that can happen in those specific models, if you slip them with flaps fully extended (40 deg.). If memory serves, that is why newer model 172s allow a max. flap angle of only 30 degrees.

[@NetAndyCz]

I know the Cessna 172 I train with warns against it in POH, however it is not prohibited. I think the issue is with some CG configurations and full slip with full flaps, my instructor claims it is pretty safe to slip even with flaps, it is just not recommended so it is better to avoid it.

[@adamthomas1234]

Crazy to me that this is taught in US and not actual spin recovery. All the right ingredients for a stall spin are in this manouver.

[@mattgoodin947]

Adam Thomas that’s why you don’t stall and watch your speed/angel of attack.

[@adamthomas1234]

Stall/spin accidents tend to be more deadly than other types of GAaccidents, accounting for about 10 percent of all accidents, but 13.7 percent of fatal accidents. Overall, around 20 percent of all GA accidentsresult in fatalities, but stall/spin accidents have a fatality rate of about 28 percent.

[@ButtTrumpet100]

Spins that are caused by a slipping turn have a much larger recovery window than on skidding turns. When stalling in a slip, the raised wing stalls first and causes the wings to go level before starting to do all that fun spinning stuff. A little nose forward pressure and you're back on track. Although it can still be hazardous if you dont recognize the signs of the impending stall and dont have the altitude to go nose down a bit, generally slips are pretty safe. But yeah we definitely should teach more spin awareness and recovery as part of the PPL certification in the states

[@fly8ma.comflighttraining199]

It is too bad that they removed it from the required training. I'd like to see it added back in, however, the main reason was they were losing too many guys in accidents in training (which in my opinion removing it from the training may have fixed one problem, but created a much bigger one).

[@n124lp]

@@ButtTrumpet100 Good point. It's important to make sure you are slipping and not skidding when low and slow. Unfortunately, there seem to be a fair number of GA pilots out there who don't understand the difference.

[@cellokid5104]

This is so GPL. Sf25c FTW

[@stationmanager2567]

I had to get a student I had who used the word kick in flying an airplane to kneel down and repent !!!!