Turtle Position Is BS!

[@81jameshan]

Turtle is meta right now. If you know how to use the turtle guard. Old school ideas but without those that came before us we wouldn't be where we are now. No positions are BS. Everything will eventually have a use.

[@jesseshaffer3951]

I mean there are entire systems of turtle attack in judo so it is nothing new. Still not sure that applies to what was said.

[@81jameshan]

Turtle can be applied to any sport or combat not just judo. One can end up in turtle even in striking. If one doesn't train it and calls it BS, when you need it you'll be smashed or dead.

[@krismootoo275]

Well I think he called it BS because his Jiu Jitsu is heavy set self defense, or its focused on self defense FIRST. From a “self defense perspective yeah it is BS, you can get romped and stomped on pretty quick. I also agree that is its transitional rather than fundamental. You can get slick with it, but you’ll never start turtle it always occurs “as a result of”. If a match starts and you go straight to turtle then fortunately you are the exception. To your talking point though, its hard to change the opinions of the older heads, not that that is the goal, but rather to use it as a talking point to show that if BJJ was still like it was “back in the day” guard passing would still be the new “leg lock system”.

[@boywonder4509]

@@krismootoo275 Henry Akins (Rickson Black Belt) teaches self defense oriented jiu jitsu and he has a whole instructional on the turtle position. He teaches how to escape, transition and get to a dominant position from turtle. Also how to attack and take the back when someone is in turtle.

[@jesseshaffer3951]

@@krismootoo275 well from a self defense perspective turtle is what you do to stand up defensively. It is good to understand it. - just like guard however being on the ground is bad. If I had a choice I would rather be in turtle then on my back b.c I can just stand up and make space.

[@elliottphillips1074]

Turtle is great for late stage guard retention

[@greenwood-1426]

Yep very hard to crack unless you know the position very well

[@LC-hv1qn]

Wrestling and mma use turtle to get up all of the time. But transitional only.

[@montagistreel]

Yea I disagree with this take, turtle is not to blame for this guy getting injured and turtle has its applications. seems like you're going out of your way to paint this false equivalency. This is def one of the more "fluffier" channels I watch about judo or bjj though. I think itll no longer have a spot in my rotation

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

I respect your opinions and choosing to no longer watch but do yourself a solid and watch this until at least 4:15 and let’s discuss. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppevZqWdq6t8iqM&feature=share7

[@tededo]

I was serving as a demo partner for my nogi instructor last yer. Without warning (not in his habit), he want to teach the gentle back technical suplex. I NEVERRRR expected the move, which he was suppose to tell me to brace and be ready. I fell on the back of my head. I was out for a few seconds, and couldnt continue for the remainder of the class. I also told him to keep warning me. I suffered a minor concussion for an entire week. He never really felt bad about it.

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

23 years of Jiu-Jitsu and I've had each elbow popped multiple times, patella tendon tear twice, labrum tear, meniscus tear, ACL, broken feet, too many broken toes and fingers to count. multiple concussions, broken ribs 4-5 times and I get at least one or two ribs pop out per year. I also do not teach turtle position at my school.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

You get rib injuries EVERY YEAR, Jack?! Do you guys do the knee on belly drill I taught y’all the first time I was there? That stuff slowly builds and strengthens the tissue (and some added level of protection) around your ribs so as to at least prevent SOME rib injuries.

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

@@KamaJiuJitsu we do, but I have to be careful because I have a hernia

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

That’s right. Time to fix that. I had one diagnosed in ‘91 when I was a blue belt in college. Got it fixed within 30 days. Never had that pain/problem since.

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

@@KamaJiuJitsu how was the recovery on that? I’ve heard different things.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

I was back on the mat in 30 days tops. Hurt bad for a day after the anesthesia wore off, but got better quickly. Just waited on training some so I don’t risk busting it back open, lol

[@aPerfectcircle23]

I don’t use turtle myself

[@jesseshaffer3951]

Best to play it safe agreed 💯. Great vid as usual.

[@bluetiger5064]

Safe yeah, ignorant no

[@bluetiger5064]

Tbh, this time i disagree. This was just a freak accident, it doesn't speak for the position. The turtle position is well known in mma and in high level grappling.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

“MMA,” where you can’t strike a downed opponent?

[@bluetiger5064]

@@KamaJiuJitsu I agree that if you naively pull turtle position with no intention of getting guard or standing up, then it's a bad position. But to dismiss it's value then it's no better than someone that dismissed leg locks 20 years ago because of your face exposure. Just like how we "fixed" leg locks in MMA, we can do the same with turtle position. You may ask how? Well in my opinion, we first have to treat the turtle position as a pin to escape from than a guard you can play. By that way of thinking now we can start seeing all the useful things turtle has. A common argument about the turtle is that your opponent can soccer kick you. Well my counter to that would be if you're opponent is able to kick you, that means he doesn't have a pin. Then you should abandon the turtle and either go to guard (guard as in be on your back with your feet facing your opponent while he is standing) or standup. Also, wouldn't it be wise to learn/teach how to defend and attack from the turtle position anyway so one can be better prepared when there are either forced in that position or their opponent goes to turtle themselves with both sport and self defense

[@Chrono826]

I'm a 3 stripe white belt. 1 year 4 months in, so I very well could be ignorant of many things. Please correct me if I'm wrong. As for the whole situation though, I personally don't understand why you would even teach or choose a technique in a roll with that level of risk where there's plenty of other technical options that are no where near as risky but are still as or even more effective. I love turtle position and use it all the time. I've taken peoples backs and have my back taken with very simple techniques that don't involve anywhere near that level of risk. Why not just do something else entirely to avoid the risk?

[@LC-hv1qn]

It was a stupid and is a stupid move. Effective yes but not worth the risk. I recommend you stop fighting in turtle. I have done it for years but it's just not realistic. I had a black belt show me how to break turtle every time with ease. I do it black belts it's that easy. Turtle is not a good position other than for transitioning.

[@greenwood-1426]

@@LC-hv1qn turtle is a great transitionnal position when you know what you are doing .

[@81jameshan]

Every position is transitional. Except for the kill.

[@nicholasroby7464]

Things happen quickly in a roll. The technique is really not that risky. It was more an unfortunate accident. A combination of a number of factors had to occur for that accident to happen. At the end of the day we have insurance for a reason and they should have paid up in the first place

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

It was a calculated call by the insurance company. They prolly ended up paying max coverage amount anyway.

[@808BJJ_Black_Belt]

Great information

[@elmalifico3708]

6:59 just watched it, great stuff.

[@billdaly6615]

I agree!

[@Oldhandlewasabitcringe]

Turtle is arguably better than guard if you are on bottom and strikes are involved. You see it all the time in mma, wrestling up from turtle seems to be the quickest and safest way off of bottom position. Wheres playing guard and spending time on bottom opens you up to the possibility of strikes.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

Soccer kicks (and kicks in general) are prohibited on a downed opponent (turtle) in the UFC. That’s because someone in turtle is (literally) defenseless.

[@Oldhandlewasabitcringe]

@@KamaJiuJitsu Not in One Championship and other mma organisations. Its clearly not a good position to be in, but its more dynamic for getting off the ground and to your feet compared to being on your back.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

Ok.

[@honeyhole411]

I’m pretty sure Eduardo Telles would disagree with you 😜

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

😂 True dat.

[@shanem8738]

Rickson and Henry Akins and John Danaher and Ribiero Brothers and Ryan Hall teach Turtle position. I teach it at my school to regain guard and seek takedowns. Maybe yall should think about the utility across categories of martial arts more carefully (i.e. military, law enforcement, sport jiu-jitsu and Judo, self defense, and MMA). Think about it and make your own choice.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

Turtle is a great “play” position. In a fight (or even against a good opponent), it is FOR TRANSITIONS ONLY. do yourself a solid and watch this until at least 4:15 and let’s discuss. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppevZqWdq6t8iqM&feature=share7

[@wawaawawawawaawa]

they are using turtle in mma pretty reguarly now. or is that too sport? lol

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

Can you elbow the spine in mma or are there rules against that?

[@guillaumel7484]

the 40mil was asked to pay by the insurance company as the insurance company wouldn't pay up in the beginning. And about turlte being bs... when was the last time you watched mma or grappling competition? Turtle (aka referees position) and wrestling in general is very important not just for sport bjj but also for self defense... say you need to get up now.. turtle is often times the fastest answer

[@guillaumel7484]

besides from that, great video.

[@KamaJiuJitsu]

👍 Maybe I’m nitpicking here, but referees position is DIFFERENT from turtle based on a few (major) factors. 1. Posture is different. 2. Head position is different. 3. Line of sight is different. 4. Weight distribution is different. Referees position is more like a “dog in a sitting position,” while in turtle, you’re balled up and head down.

[@guillaumel7484]

@@KamaJiuJitsu I agree with you saying it's not a good position to hang out in but it should definitely be taught and practiced by all

[@armandberkut6021]

He might been Dave Kama Student and black Belt but most of the time he doesn't know what he is talking about !!!!! Too bad for Grand Master Rickson's Affiliates . There is an expression : " Jesus Donkey still a DONKEY , nothing more "

[@damarquesjohnson4087]

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