TV Tropes Made A Show And It Sucks

[@amiefortman7220]

Browsing TVTropes can be fun sometimes, but it's not like... an instruction manual for *how* to write stories of any kind. This show sounds like *exactly* the kind of thing someone would write who uses that website as an instruction manual, and that hurts my soul.

[@blueblank8287]

Yeah - TvTropes is a perfectly fun website if you don’t take it too seriously, and can even be a good reference, like, if you’re thinking “I like series that have time travel plots/a certain type of villain/a main character who has to deal with this particular kind of arc in them and want to check out a new one - I’ll hop over to the page for that kind of story and see if anything mentioned there sounds neat!” or you’re curious to see what kinds of patterns show up in media in a way that you might not have necessarily thought of before... but that’s... basically what tropes are: patterns that tend to show up in things people make because of whatever internal logic towards achieving certain goals. If you’re using TvTropes as something instructive, you’ve... got your writing process backwards, more likely than not.

[@thomaslacroix6011]

It can help you avoid common mistakes using specific tropes, but that's about it. I wouldn't discount it as tool for writing, but its uses are limited.

[@RockhopperRio]

I like to think that calling TV Tropes a tool for writing advice would be like calling Wikipedia a tool for research. It can be fun to read, and it can give you general knowledge on something you'd like to know more about, but using it as a something to center your work around is a really bad idea.

[@dracocrusher]

The most I've ever used TV Tropes for is like either trying to find specific things that use tropes for dumb selfish shenanigans, or in super rare cases to make a point. Like "Oh, this character is kind-of a ripoff of this other guy, there's basically nobody else on TV Tropes that has this same set of things attached." So not exactly good uses, but every now and then it's kind-of useful to just have something to point to to be like "Hey, this is a thing" or whatever. Probably the best thing I ever used it for was looking up characters who use instruments as weapons to try to get some ideas and I stumbled across some fun crazy scene from some kung-fu movie. I never made that character and I kind-of wasted my time, but at least that was fun to find.

[@LaurentIpsum]

For me personally, I never used it to write, however through reading it I do feel as though it has helped me to be more aware of plot devices and occurrences that happen in media. When I was relatively young and impressionable it helped me to think more critically about the things that I was watching, reading and generally consuming.

[@axelvoss9653]

Do any of you remember Jimmy Neutron? There was an episode where Jimmy and his friends were selected to star in a movie based on Jimmy's script, which is really just a compilation of scenes ripped directly from famous movies, played straight, with no real connective tissue. This show is like that.

[@KazeTheCursedOne]

A trope is a brick, you can build a house of them, you can even build a mansion if you know what you're doing, but you can just make a pile of them and expect it to turn into a house. That's not how this works.

[@TheChrisOfManyHats]

Yup.

[@shallmow]

mansion made out of brown bricks with minecrap

[@glumbortango7182]

And also you need something more solid to keep them together or it's all going to fall apart at the slightest pressure

[@Bustermachine]

I want to say this is an error in thinking. The whole is merely the sum of the parts. But that's never how story telling works. TV tropes is the equivalent of individual cuts of meat denuded of the framework and connective tissue that once made thos discretes chunks into a complete organism.

[@Monica-br8pi]

You can also use it to beat someone to death.

[@smeyeteeth]

while tv tropes has helped me put names to some of my favorite and most used writing tropes, it’s really easy to get lost in the “there are no original concepts” sauce down there. you just have to remember that just because your character reaches a mental tipping point or a character turns out to be evil the whole time, you’re not suddenly ripping off thousands of other people’s works.

[@dracocrusher]

Yeah, just remember that nothing is original. Everything has been done before, just got to make the best out of what YOU can do with your own tropes and concepts. Because comparisons will always exist, but if you really think about it, it's kind-of freeing to think about, isn't it? Because that means that any thoughts of 'this is too similar to X thing' are already irrelevant because so many other things have already done that idea. I dunno, that's just how I'd want to think about it.

[@amiefortman7220]

Plus a lot of the most common tropes are just... basic storytelling conventions, like the steps in the Hero's Journey. It's like building a house--once you have the framework done, you can arrange and design it in your own unique way so that it's *your* house, not someone else's. That's how I like to look at it.

[@PolarPhantom]

TVT is the sort of thing I wish I never found sometimes. Like you said, it's easy to get lost in its ideas. So I go on there and then realise why I left, then promise myself once again to leave. And then I forget when I wanna look something up.

[@kristenyarbrough4287]

I mean, I can't really hate tv tropes tbh because it seemed to always insist "tropes are tools." Like, not inherently bad or good, just conventions in a story. And the comprehensive lists of different media examples helped me figure out how a trope can be used in a way that I like, and in a way that I don't like. Like, it doesn't have to be a site that discourages creativity.

[@GrayYeonWannabe]

"good artists borrow. great artists steal" -quote stolen by picasso

[@NomChomsuke]

>Hitting "Random" on the site and making a plot about whatever comes up. It's either what death of creativity looks like, or some kind of challenge

[@mangoalias608]

Henry starter kit: quippy british accent lizardman "the thing is," "for the people at home"

[@henrygalley2831]

This is good, the one thing you’re missing is “Yes, no, absolutely”

[@Siennarchist]

Also: "its the x thing of..."

[@Monica-br8pi]

comment down below

[@vintheguy]

@@Monica-br8pi BELOW DEEZ NUTS

[@bird2793]

"Just for context..."

[@Merilirem]

I didn't think anyone ever used TV tropes as if it was some sort of writing gospel. I figured it was just a way to see a bunch of things people do.

[@corncake4677]

Yeah i feel the same way. I think it works fine as a sort of index for media. and i think its kinda dumb to give the website crap and blame it because of how some people use it in the wrong way.

[@mackielunkey2205]

I just use it to edit a bunch of stuff and add stuff I’ve seen.

[@mackielunkey2205]

But agreed. It’s more supplementary material than primary. There’s a ton of grammar and sentence structure mistakes in the pages.

[@insertnamehere6434]

@@mackielunkey2205 Mostly because they're not trying to be formal/professional (according to the main page) meaning they're letting "casuals" in and I think that in a way hurts the site a bit. Grammar aside, the trope examples should also be taken with a grain of salt. I took a walk through Trope Repair Shop the other day and most pages submitted there suffer from misuse and zero context. A more specific example, I was reading a character sheet once and most descriptions were wrong due to someone completely misinterpreting character actions. Also, the same character was tagged as "Younger Than They Look" because "you'd think they'd be 16 but they're _only_ 15" I'm like-

[@kostajovanovic3711]

@@mackielunkey2205 damn, can grammar be bad sometimes...

[@henrygalley2831]

Happy Valentine’s Day, here’s our letter of hate from has to you!

[@DarkExcalibur42]

"all the subtlety of a drive-by shooting" That was savage! Thank you for that, it gave me a solid laugh.

[@malikoniousjoe]

*from us to you* haha TVTropes may have burned you out man

[@PenelopeNaomi]

Great

[@TheChrisOfManyHats]

Yup.

[@ASCZPictures]

D E E P H U R T I N G

[@starsndips]

It was weirdly meta when you referred to TMA, a podcast only 1 person that I know of other than me listens to.

[@ASCZPictures]

@@starsndips it has a thriving tumblr fandom

[@DarkExcalibur42]

Yeaaaaah. That comes through in your audio. I don't think I've ever heard you this angry on the channel before? Not exactly angry. But like frustrated maybe. Whatever emotion, this show made you feel a lot of it.

[@archagenteverlasting1239]

Sandstorm!

[@ASCZPictures]

@@DarkExcalibur42 the emotion was Hurting

[@cheeto.burrito]

Ok, you say every episode could be called "Stylistic Suck" or "So Bad It's Horrible" but maybe half the episodes should be titled "Sex Is Evil" and/or "Double Standard" Edit: TVTroper (derogatory)

[@blueblank8287]

“Dark comedy, when it’s done right, stops being offensive... if people are offended by the dark jokes you’re making, chances are it’s because the jokes aren’t funny.” That’s... a really good bit of input, honestly? Like... I think the show Archer is super-funny, and I know a lot of its jokes are sexist/homophobic/ableist/etc., but it’s trying to be funny and go “look at these stupid characters who have stupid things happen to them!” before it’s trying to... emphasize that its jokes can be offensive.

[@evanbradley6169]

I think another thing that helps Archer is that whenever someone says something sexist/homophic/ableist/racist, they're always framed as being the one who's wrong and other characters will react accordingly; and that does a good job of conveying that the character, not the show, is saying those things. Like, when Mallory says something horrible it really comes across as "old lady expressing her outdated views" and not "writers who actually believe those things".

[@RedReaper1997]

its all about context and framing. it's the difference between something dark and something light. recently, i was reading a webcomic where the main character gets raped while blackout drunk. as someone who has been raped by a partner, i had no actual problem with it. what i had an issue with was how the author framed the act. it was supposed to frame the rapist as the love interest and his act as an act of love. if it had been framed as: this guy was supposed to be the love interest but takes advantage of a girl who cannot consent and rapes her so he is no longer the love interest, but a villain - i would have been fine. but no. upon this confession(he does say that they slept together and the MC repeatedly says she has no recollection of it), the MC blushes and comes to the idea that he truly loves her. that is just an incredibly disrespectful and disgusting sentiment because the author is choosing to romanticize rape. in contrast, in another webcomic, the MC is raped. she was completely sober, but frozen with fear and couldn't fight back. but the rapist is framed as just that, a rapist. he automatically becomes the villain, the author makes sure the audience knows this is not romantic or cute or sweet. it is creepy and disgusting. that's thr difference. you can make ableist/homophobic/transphobic/sexist jokes as long as the punchline isn't taking a shot at the marginalized group and instead drawing attention to how they want to be seen. i saw something that said "gallows humor is fine as long as the one making the joke is on the gallows. cause if you're using gallows humor and you're not being hung, you're just part of the execution." aka you can totally make inappropriate jokes, as long as you're not making it in a way that is genuinely offensive. there's a difference between saying "a lesbian second date is renting a u-haul and adopting a cat together" and "all lesbians secretly want to screw a guy but are too ugly to get one".

[@RedReaper1997]

Pierce Hawthorne and Britta Perry from Community are also a good example. the context of the show is that both these characters are wrong. they are bigoted and wrong and the other characters are constantly bringing it to attention and framing it as a problem, one that nearly ruins their friendship with the rest of the group multiple times.

[@BygoneT]

Yeah that's gonna have to be a no for me dog. Some people just don't want you to joke about raping children's corpses no matter the circumstances. Funny is so subjective that the least offensive sarcastic jokes will still receive the same backlash the more offensive ones get, because people who dislike sarcasm tend to think it's intrinsically insensitive, demanding and mean for the sake of mean. You can't get over that wall with a well structured joke, because the structure is just where meaning goes to place itself in view. Otherwise humanity's masterpieces like Lysistrata or Madame Bovary would have no detractors, and yet they are out there.

[@blueblank8287]

​@@BygoneT Nah, of course, true and fair, there aren't absolutes, and like you said, what's funny is subjective, everyone has their own thresholds and hard lines and that should be acknowledged respectfully, etc. - still, I don't think it was meant as an absolute and I agree in a general way accordingly. While a well-structured joke won't get over those kinds of walls, no, it will still guide more people to... finding something funny in its context/how it's presented/etc. and feel less like it's just slamming the audience with shocking/offensive/angering content.

[@WhaleManMan]

Tv Tropes is just where you find the media that has examples of your fetish in them, change my mind.

[@ASCZPictures]

it's true but you shouldn't say it

[@brendiesel386]

Why not just google it and find an actual website or community dedicated to your fetish as opposed to hoping you stumble across something cool through literal thousands of examples? I understand the excitement of wanting to search for something new, with many possibilities at your fingertips, but it doesn’t sound very convenient

[@vintheguy]

No, not really? Some tropes that are about certain fetishes being shown in media have the list of media that does it replaced with "no examples, please." instead

[@drachenzahne9262]

You are correct

[@oldpoletadpole70]

@@vintheguy Well, it used to be a place to look up media with your fetish. They've cleaned things up, for better and worse, after they lost advertising from Google. It lead to a bunch of pages getting cut, articles getting rewritten, and certain tropes having their examples pruned.

[@corncake4677]

This show is literally a prototype version of Doug Walker’s Demo Reel

[@Smg065]

That is the most accurate thing I've ever heard, holy shit.

[@SirBlackReeds]

Not surprising given that if there are two men that community worships, they're Doug Walker and Joss Whedon.

[@Nai-qk4vp]

@@SirBlackReeds Why the fuck do they idolize those two again?

[@kostajovanovic3711]

@@Nai-qk4vp it was the early days on internet when Doug was a frontrunner for internet reviewers and Whedon could do no wrong

[@Nai-qk4vp]

@@kostajovanovic3711 Whedon could do no wrong? Maybe I was too young or didn't know but I don't rememer Joss Whedon being worshipped outside of Tv Tropes.

[@eldritchexploited5462]

Honestly I just use TVtropes to see if I missed any neat background stuff in a movie or show I like

[@utubecop11]

I have had a Tv tropes tab open at work every day for the past 5 years. I shudder to think of all the lost productivity.

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

Unless you provide a service people need to survive, l think you're good.

[@Zephyr_Zeitgeist]

TV Tropes can be rather useful, and it also helped me to recognize some of the messed up tropes that you don't realize are messed up until it's pointed out? You absorb this stuff like background radiation and don't notice it. But the writers for this show seemed to take all the opposite lessons TV Tropes can teach. Like the sexist stuff they didn't subvert, they just played it straight, but it's okay, it's not sexist because we know it is and we're doing it on purpose. ...that's worse. Someone should tell them that's worse.

[@zuulmeister8409]

I'm a writer who really like looking around TV Tropes, but I only ever use those tropes as a starting point. I like my story beats to be a little more complex than what they present.

[@lexij2159]

my favorite part about Echo Chamber is how despite it being tvtropes: the show, the actual tvtropes page is actually fairly modestly sized, like not even the target audience could be bothered to care that much about it.

[@TheChrisOfManyHats]

For those wondering, the one good actor mentioned who played Umphrey Bridgeport is Stefan Dezil who is indeed a professional actor and has actually been in a lot of stuff including a live-action portyral of Static Shock.

[@WeRNotAlive]

This is genuinely great to know! Thank you for sharing!

[@halfpintrr]

I use tv tropes as a time filler, and as a jumping off point for my own stories (like a prompt generator.) Also, it’s useful to see the toxic tropes (I.e. Black Dudes Die First) and try to avoid them. But they should not be the full extent of your writing. Also, the Useful Notes sections are pretty cool (I like the one about tea culture.) Edit: Oh my god, it’s shit Magnus Archives! Holy shiiiiiit

[@outsideofadream]

Quite honestly I've read so many neat primers on real word historical subjects via those Useful Notes pages.

[@lance6574]

every time a tvtropes trope is named dropped in this i take 5 psychic damage

[@caterinagerbasi1594]

" a homunculus of all your lab partners" is the funniest phrase I ever heard in my life.

[@strawberryqueen0382]

Haven’t watched the full video yet but I think the main problem I/most people have with TV Troupes is that it gives off the vibe that have a troupe in your story is bad. Which it isn’t. Every story has troupes in it and it’s how the author utilizes the troupes that make them special. Sarcastic Productions actually has a really good series about troupes with this mindset.

[@donaddams8825]

It's all about how you use the trope. I if you shove it in everywhere, it becomes a cliche.

[@blueblank8287]

To be honest, yeah, on TvTropes/among people who take TvTropes too seriously, I’ve seen both that - people getting the impression that tropes being in a work is bad, even though the site itself does mention that tropes =/= bad, and so /absolutely everything/ has to be done ironically or with some kind of a twist - and people talking/writing like you can just check off a list of tropes in a story and call it a day instead of just writing organically, looking back, and going “...Oh! These characters kinda fit these sorts of archetypes!” - e.x. writing a story and actively going “I want this to be like my favorite anime, so the love interest has to be a Tsundere and their best friends have to be a goofy pair of Those Two Guys. Bam! Just as good a set of characters as my favorite anime.”

[@strawberryqueen0382]

@@donaddams8825 100%

[@cybershockgames1434]

I find it odd that people feel that way. Because I’ve always just seen TV Tropes as an extremely neutral sounding archive on what happens in which media

[@thomaslacroix6011]

The way I see it, TvTropes often point out common mistakes done while using certain tropes. And these mistakes are real, unless you do it knowingly because it fits your story. Since tropes are just basic blocks of writing, misusing them will screw up your story, but doing them right isn't any guarantee your story will be good. Since their negative impact is more obvious than their positive impact, it's easy to view them as negative, even if it's false.

[@CommissarMitch]

Me: *Never uses/used TV Tropes* Also me: *Never seen this show* Also Also me: *Watch This video fully anyway*

[@JeevesAnthrozaurUS]

This really crosses my Moral Event Horizon

[@vintheguy]

Damn they weren't lying That event Can my moral horizon

[@snnnaaaaaakeeeee4470]

I feel like a Complete Monster

[@HaKilly]

They looks lije a hate sink

[@zenoblues7787]

TV Tropes really will ruin your life

[@SirBlackReeds]

Just ask Johnny2071 a user notorious for his vendetta against F Is For Family.

[@hyperx72]

"I wonder why these people hate TV tropes so much?" Turns out they're using it to write in a fundamentally flawed way that starts with tropes instead of characters, theme, or setting.

[@kristenyarbrough4287]

I said this in a response but I'll say it again. Tropes are tools. Tv tropes can be a website that discourages creativity and distort how one interacts with media, but it can also show comprehensive examples of tropes in ways that you like and don't like. I personally use it to find media that I will probably like based on how it's tropes are used, and to get ideas on how to play with tropes in a creative way or to understand how a piece of media works. So...with all that in mind, wtf was up with echo chamber? You can't just bring tools to a construction site and expect a house to come out of it? Like, for people who insist on tropes being tools, they sure didn't know how to use them...

[@Normaschthewanderer]

I always saw the site as being the equivalent of cliff notes.

[@Monica-br8pi]

The thumbnail is a piece of art.

[@Monica-br8pi]

Can't wait for Death Grips to get their own TV Tropes entry.

[@casperchristiansen2458]

@@Monica-br8pi They probably have a mention somewhere in the music section.

[@deirdreb2474]

@@Monica-br8pi i think i remember actually coming across a tvtropes entry for DG a few years ago, not sure if it's still on the site tho

[@Mario_Angel_Medina]

Is like Spaniard comicbook author Nacho Fernández once said: "Eating a lot of eggs can maybe make you a food connoisseur, but it would never make you a good chef"

[@iron_Will]

Every time someone name dropped a trope in this video prior to actually visiting the TV Tropes page for the show, I opened the trope in another tab. I have forty TV Tropes tabs open. Two of them use Echo Chamber videos as the example image.

[@kostajovanovic3711]

Which ones?

[@IncBot]

which ones, will?

[@TurretBot]

which one?!

[@TheMovieSequelDude49]

The funniest thing I saw on TVTropes was the Laconic page of Cracked's AfterHours which, for the longest time, was described as "The closest TV Tropes will ever get to its own webshow. (Go to hell, Echo Chamber)". Just shows how even the TVTropes community (myself included) couldn't stand this show.

[@IsaacMayerCreativeWorks]

honestly, I get it, After Hours is like the only possible way TVTropes-style content could be made into a good, watchable show. In that instead of just portraying the tropes straight and occasionally mentioning them, it’s discussing them, mixing them up, and invoking them in a humorous way. Not to mention the ensemble cast of assorted neurotic and horrible characters torturing each other ends up feeling less like a gross power fantasy and more like Always Sunny. See also the episode that ends with the revelation that they’re all in a Sartrean hell. This is us, in a thing! Does this have raisins? I’m allergic to raisins.

[@a_random_person_]

Have you considered reviewing Autodale? I'd love to hear your opinion as professional writers on that show

[@GhoulyRooly]

I’d watch that.

[@Elementalsight]

Agreed!

[@magmaslasher7604]

Oh, I love autodale. I second this!

[@j.a.ogrady7783]

Ohhh please that'd be great! I love autodale but I do have many flaws with it and I wonder if I'm alone in them

[@teatree7334]

that'd be great! I'd defo watch that

[@DarkExcalibur42]

Gus: "We watched it so THEY DON'T HAVE TO!"

[@DarkExcalibur42]

I had to stop watching the clips you were showing because they make me uncomfortable for some reason.

[@PolarPhantom]

It's hard for me to find criticism of TVT as a site, so this is refreshing. In fact, whenever I try to search up said criticism, I just get lots of TV Tropes pages because there are so many. God it's inescapable!

[@kostajovanovic3711]

True

[@jessicamartin1160]

Saaaaame!!!!!! I hate that website and I wish more people would see it for the garbage that it is.

[@snnnaaaaaakeeeee4470]

@@jessicamartin1160 I love the concept of the site. The execution is just way too flawed.

[@iantaakalla8180]

It was noted that it was a fan catalogue of things that happened in Buffy and 2000s fanbase-available media. That explains all of the artifacts of TvTropes and the attitudes around it, and the fact that it started with Buffy explains the weird idea that they thought they could trope stuff with attitude as opposed to objectively.

[@shadowangel6359]

If the show were a skit show that had a few skits for one trope each, it would've given the writers more potential to write something funny about the tropes they are trying to lampshade.

[@genericname8727]

I like writing against overused tropes or putting unique twists on them. I don’t understand why you’d deliberately look at overused tropes and use them without putting a spin on them. That just seems like a guide to boring writing, at best.

[@1234kalmar]

I unironically love Tvtropes, but possibly because the mindset i read it with is not to treat it as instruction manual. I mostly like it because it helps me compare stuff I see in stories I like, what the differences are in execution. Also they somtimes point out little details I missed. No to mention, they don't foam in the mouth with "Rabid SJWs huehuehue" when a charachter happens to not be a cisgender straight white guy with brown hair in their early 30s.

[@SirBlackReeds]

So you enjoy it because it's a potential lolcow farm? Isn't that ironically loving it?

[@ty-seansenior6660]

I have the same mindset: keep tropes in mind but don't let them drive your stories.

[@jessicamartin1160]

????????????????????????? I don't even want to try to understand that bottom paragraph........................

[@jessicamartin1160]

FOR THE TRILLIONTH TIME, NOBODY, LITERALLY *NOBODY* FOAMS AT THE MOUTH WHEN THEY SEE A TRANS FEMALE NON-WHITE CHARACTER. WHERE ARE YOU PSYCHOTIC SJWS GETTING THIS BULLSHIT FROM?!?! IT DOESN'T EXIST!!!! YOU CRAZY MORONS ARE TRYING TO STIR UP CONTROVERSY FROM NOTHING. YOU'RE MAKING UP PEOPLE IN YOUR MINDS TO GET MAD AT TO MAKE YOURSELF SEEM SUPERIOR. STOP TRYING TO MAKE US ANTI SJWS LOOK BAD, BECAUSE WE ARE MORE SANE, RATIONAL AND REASONABLE THAN YOU SJWS WILL EVER BE.

[@ASCZPictures]

Cannot believe they deleted all the episodes. this video is the only record.

[@OnTheWallNow]

Thanks, I really enjoyed this. The show was mostly scrubbed from the Internet a few years ago. Watching it discussed in a clip show is exactly how I’d like this show to be remembered.

[@Redem10]

I remember spending countless hours on TV tropes, trying to watching this and being "oh this is not very good"

[@emberdragon4248]

For a website that knows all the bad tropes, they excel at stepping on each and every single mine in the minefield

[@grimms8783]

Judging from the comments, I didn't know this, but people use TVTropes for writing advice...? I just thought it was a fun site to find a huge list of various tropes to link up to characters to help break them down and make them more digestible? At least, that's what I do if I wanna explain a character I've came up with more easily to somebody.

[@aidanrutter257]

Hatred for TV Tropes aside, I, without irony, enjoy a term I learned on the sight: Curb-stomp Battle.

[@SapphicFurry]

the only thing i used tvtropes for was to find more creepypasta-adjacent material in the Nightmare Fuel categories when I was 14 and filling my brain with miscellaneous terms.

[@Ashtonyss]

Same here. So many hours spent on that page.

[@aquamarinerose5405]

The premise sounds super interesting. Create a show that explains/acts as an example of common literary tropes by having characters build a "Show within a Show" while the trope they're discussing happens to them in real life. Kinda like edutainment for people with depression

[@RainWelsh]

“This *is* Straight Magnus Archives” Funny, I both immediately know everything I need to know about this show, and simultaneously my mind violently recoiled from such cursed knowledge. Edit: also, my immediate response to seeing Mr Administrator was “he’s not Hot Twink enough to be Elias Bouchard”, so now as well as the revulsion I’m also disappointed in myself. Thanks, Echo Chamber.

[@thedreamchasers7252]

I come back on occasion to enjoy listening to this again. This episode is so entertaining. I can't state how much I enjoy Gus, he makes me laugh so often. His disgust with the show and then proceeding to bury himself was hilarious.

[@phantomkitten73]

How did nobody realize the irony of the name? The absolute piss-poor storytelling and comedy found in this can only be from a person or community who are in a social echo chamber, and don't understand what actually makes good stories as they are stuck on the very limited experience of few things they've watched (see all the modern KZbin critics who's entire personality is hating on Captain Marvel and/or the Sequel Trilogy). I really don't know what else the name could be referring to, but am not willing to watch the show to see if there even is a reason.

[@kostajovanovic3711]

Nice way to call out mauler, quartering, g&g and critical drinker!

[@genericname8727]

I liked Captain Marvel and didn’t get why people were so irrationally mad about it.

[@RedReaper1997]

@@genericname8727 its the misogyny. there's so many of male characters like Carol and no one bats an eye. but the second a woman does the same thing, its a terrible piece of media.

[@DoubleADwarf]

Bold of you to assume they were trying to be ironic when they picked that name.

[@jessicamartin1160]

So simply disliking a shitty movie suddenly means you don't have a personality? Wow. Thanks for making me feel like a demon for DAAAAAAARRRRRRRRING to hate shitty movies. IS NOBODY ALLOWED TO HATE ANYTHING OR HAVE A NEGATIVE OPINION ANYMORE?!?!?!?!?! JESUS FUCKING CHRIST JUST LET US HATE THINGS!!!!!!!!

[@AmySay]

Not to quote TV Tropes themselves, but Tropes Are Tools is a thing for a reason. They’re building blocks to make your story, but you shouldn’t focus SOLEY on tropes.

[@skunkbrains5656]

Don't forget they literally have a cleanup team dedicated to removing entire works for being "too lewd" all for the sake of precious advertiser money.

[@seg162]

I don't even think they're consistent with that. Then again, it's not like the people running ads on their sites are consistent, either, so it balances out... or something

[@shadowangel6359]

Also want to say that, ever since I became part of a start-up group as a scriptwriter, I have stopped looking at TV Tropes because of how stifling it is and how much more fulfilling it is to have an idea and actually develop it in my own image instead of relying on some trope to be a template to work off and perpetuate the ongoing narrative that TV Tropes has shown "there are no original concepts"

[@catboyuwu5361]

The first thing that poped into my brain when they described the mysterious boss is The Magnus Archives I can't believe Meg commented on that later

[@addisonalbert9078]

Yall need to put these long group videos on their own podcast 😭 i love them so much.

[@addisonalbert9078]

By that i mean ones like the Lily orchard video, vore writing advice, heads of sierra blanca, this, etc.

[@BloomBlanche]

Even today, whenever I get a new favourite character, I immediately go to their TV Tropes page to see what people have written about them. That site shouldn't be free, it should be classified as an addictive substance.

[@EvilOverlord1662]

A couple of days ago I thought to myself, "Hey, didn't TVTropes make a show?" And then, bam! KZbin recommended this video because apparently the algorithm reads minds now. Also, who are you people?

[@daikaijumaster]

Look, I'm a TV Tropes apologist, but even I recognize that Echo Chamber is shit

[@kap1618]

To quote someone else (I don't remember who said this). There is a difference between cooking with a cookbook and throwing a bunch of ingredients listed off a box in a bowl.

[@troyjardine5850]

I didn't think it was possible to make a series on the internet that was worse than "To boldly flee", but here we are!

[@fbmb1337]

Wow there. Let's not say things we can't take back. But this does sound about as bad as 'To Boldly flee.'

[@interrobang5785]

Every time they said the name of a trope out loud I physically winced

[@scrawnycalc9372]

49:30 watched this immediately after the new vid on The Menu. Can't believe Henry predicted the character of Thomas

[@_indigo_inked]

Gotta love the Straight TMA reference😂 I literally cannot believe there’s a real show that just /is/ Straight TMA. Thank you guys, very cursed.

[@Joey245]

This is probably one of my favorite videos on the entire channel. Poor Gus suffering the entire time is just morbidly funny to me, and the analysis of the show itself is really insightful and funny. The crowning moment of funny, to me, is when Gus says "Welcome to Echo Chamber, today's episode is Beat A Dead Horse. Hi, I'm a dead horse. Kill me." Just...perfect delivery.

[@scottyb8392]

dark comedy is like gross-out comedy for me. if you write a joke, and it happens to be gross, develop it and it'll be funny! if you write something that's just gross for the sake of being gross and expect people to laugh, it probably won't work out as well and people will just feel uncomfortable. same with dark humor.

[@aquamarinerose5405]

The milisecond I heard "He Has a Twitter Account" I cringed into my skeleton.

[@aquamarinerose5405]

Also in regards to "Using TV Tropes as a writing tool" I tend to use it mostly insofar as it allows me to pin down ideas to a specific set of words based in concrete terms that I can compare to like 15 other stories to compare and contrast how it works compared to them. Like being able to describe my protagonist in very specific terms instead of trying to make vague comparisons to quotes from other pieces of media. Point out my protagonist as a Hot-Blooded Determinator and then be able to cross-reference exactly what that means in relation to media across history.

[@aquamarinerose5405]

@Andrew comments Yea but some people still do stupid stuff like making this show.

[@dizzylilthing]

I can't use tv tropes, I feel like it poisons everything I draw from it. Like giving HIV infected blood infusions to my already ill writing.

[@Zulf85]

This episode has just started and has already hit me with the horrifying realisation that people actually think TV Tropes is a writing tool

[@yunaneomi]

Wait, wait WHAT? This is literally my reaction at the moment.

[@PolarPhantom]

Much of the time, I do find TV Tropes very narrow in its thinking. Like I was just minutes ago reading about World War III as a "trope" and I wonder if it needs to be so snarky. Or that it could be better from an analytic or advisory standpoint. It's why I do my best to avoid TV Tropes these days. There's far better sites and far better avenues for analysis and advice. Like this video right here! Like I feel, for example, the World War III page is a bit too sparse on why WWIII is a popular subject. Fear of the end of society, anxiety over the future of warfare, the proliferation of the Military Industrial Complex etc. Everything is simply boiled down to "tropes" and not what the stories are trying to say. I hope I'm making sense.

[@Mario_Angel_Medina]

The fact that even the TVtropes users hated the series just says it all (and is the cherry on top of this schadenfraude cake). I, (like a lot of watchers it seems) didn't know Echo Chamber existed, but is sounds even more awful than the Channel Awesome movies. Muy knee-jerk reaction was yo say "at least the Doug Walker films have interesting plots with awful excecutions. Nobody wants to see the 'we are filming a show' style of metaparody applied to a RomCom" but that would be wrong because, thinking about it, I'm pretty sure other people has done it better

[@hexenkraut9182]

i always thought tv tropes was a site to look up what medium has xyz in it. cause if i like a "trope" and i want more like that , i looked it up and done. think i had it used twice in my life.

[@grantingtherant1465]

Oh, right. This show existed. After Hours did this stuff wayyy better and actually had character development

[@ASCZPictures]

god you're so right

[@SirBlackReeds]

Echo Chamber is basically the TV Tropes community trying to become the next Channel Awesome. Hey wait, are they still making episodes? If so, then I'm surprised they haven't changed the name given that the term "echo chamber" has been associated with the alt-right.

[@Normaschthewanderer]

They aren't

[@llewelynshingler2173]

"Echo Chamber" applies to all groups. And there are reasons to consider it bad without "A Guy from the rival faction used it"

[@alyxwarner2984]

This is the first Diregentleman vid that I've seen Meg in, they're so funny in this!

[@ASCZPictures]

thank you I am

[@ty-seansenior6660]

Same here, she seems like a girl I'd like to meet. Platonically, of course!

[@parycartoons6840]

7:16- 7:45 honestly that's what I do to plan now except I already have some idea how characters and plots are supposed to be so I only pick tropes that fit and use it to flesh stuff out.

[@parycartoons6840]

Also this show is a great case study on why tropes should be used as tools and not a main premise.

[@wppb50]

TV Tropes hit its peak when it was just clever jabs. Like, the character the audience all hates is "the Scrappy." When that character is obviously the writer's/writers' favorite character, it's "the Wesley." That's fun. That was fun. What happened to it?

[@ashoka9306]

"Let's just tag team beat the shit out of Gus with this" Meg gets what we are here for

[@briancorvello3620]

By this point, I'm actually glad I was perma-banned from that dumpster fire of a website.

[@henrygalley2831]

How the hell did you get perma-banned from TV Tropes?

[@briancorvello3620]

@@henrygalley2831 "Ownership issues". As in, I took offense to the page on my own fanfic being smeared.

[@Nai-qk4vp]

@@briancorvello3620 Doesn't surprise me. You go against the worthless mods and they ban you. Pathetic!

[@Malick-ix9io]

I still can't believe that hypocritical jackass (AnoBakaDesu) is getting away with a behavior like this. Arguing with him, stirring some trouble, is why I quit working on Tv Tropes. The community is just toxic.

[@PolarPhantom]

This video is how I heal after getting some TV Tropes brainrot.

[@samescourt3801]

Oh? The On GP music video in the thumbnail? Is Mr. Gentlemen a noided individual?

[@archagenteverlasting1239]

OMG DireGentleman is such a Badass Normal 😍

[@Anonymous58815]

came for the Death Grips thumbnail, stayed for the great commentary

[@vulbvibe]

Happy Valentines Day, guys!

[@candiedskull9841]

TVTropes can be used for good inspiration, but should not be a guidebook. Using any bit too much from there can be poisonous to your story. Or at least lead you down a time-consuming rabbit hole lol Thank goodness I stopped my mild addiction to it quickly, but I was one of the lucky ones

[@benjaminarnold51]

Agreed that it can be good for inspiration, but there are far too many instances of people thinking that it is a guide for how to make a story instead of being a categorized list of storytelling, well, tropes that is framed in a casual easy to understand manner. Sure, reading it can help you compartmentalize ideas but ya really shouldn't try and squeeze whatever trope ya happen to read that day into your work.

[@seg162]

Don't even use it for inspiration. Actually consume and analyze media, without a phronema that compels you to categorize literary patterns with kitschy labels that mean less than nothing outside of that community.

[@shanevance3433]

Hey people who made this video, if you guys are from Tv Tropes, I just want to let you know that I was once a trope editor before I got banned for trying to circumvent suspension 11 months ago. I really miss editing on the website and I know what I did was wrong and I know about your policy, but please understand that my itch to edit n the website just won't go away. If you're willing, please consider giving me another chance.

[@Malick-ix9io]

If you are looking for some juicy info, you can browse there. But looking for editing... you better rethink again. The community there is full of toxic people. I argued with someone over an entry for Cecilia Schariac... and I've decided to never edit again.

[@4QIcehole]

56:50 Gus straight up just turns into Tidus

[@goodluckgorsky3413]

So it’s like Community but everybody is Abed and all of Abed’s charm is sucked out

[@ewangoodwin1127]

is that death grips on gp music video in the thumbnail?

[@henrygalley2831]

Yes

[@toxic_shr00m]

In-character twitters are cool if they're done well

[@dizzylilthing]

I have followers on an in character twitter account who don't even know about my literary works lol

[@thecuchikiller]

1:08:08 In a ironical way, I can say: "ooooh this is like that trope... When... When... The minion kneel before the big bad and get's killed in the act to... give a visual of KICKING THE DOG TROPE!."

[@zingertar]

This show definitely shares its energy with Demo Reel

[@darkfrost-star6317]

How TF does this show have a 7.7 on IMDb???

[@ymmijx6061]

because they're in cahoots!

[@gazeboist4535]

43:30 he looks like everyone's friend Josh.

[@Malick-ix9io]

If you want to find some juicy info on TV Tropes, it's child play. But working there... it's a completely bad idea. Many ruthless people (like AnoBakaDesu, aka Knight Valfodr) will insult you for making little screw-ups. For getting things worse, if you get suspended, it will last until they say so, which won't be any day soon!

[@Normaschthewanderer]

Seriously?

[@Malick-ix9io]

@@Normaschthewanderer Yeah. You may not believe this, but it's the truth.

[@Pablo360able]

TV Tropes is the OEIS of storytelling. Or, perhaps, the OEIS is TV Tropes for math nerds.

[@MikhaelEternal]

oh shit It looks like I'm first. I'm probably not. This is what I get for staying up stupidly late writing about geography. Wheeeeeeeee.

[@arcktangent7947]

"Hello we're the nostalgia critics, we remember it so you don't have to"

[@alicethemad1613]

Which Magnus Archives fear entity does this show classify under?

[@ASCZPictures]

The Hunt because it filled us with the urge to Kill

[@shadowangel6359]

Also, the last episode better fits the trope "Gainax Ending"

[@thedreamchasers7252]

It's unfortunate that I could probably write a better episodic story if I didn't try

[@insupportofjunhado]

Technically "trivia" and "your mileage may vary" are not "tropes". A trope is a story telling tool. Trivia are facts that are not particularly important to what you're doing at the time, and your mileage may vary just means people have different opinions. TV Tropes really will ruin your vocabulary!

[@kap1618]

It also doesn't help that certain "tropes" are just themes, motifs, or basic descriptions of things in the story.

[@iantaakalla8180]

Me when I consider a protagonist a trope because I am inured at how Undertale plays with that trope, even long after Tv Tropes itself made it into a super trope for a followed character: