Tweek Talks about Characters Falling Off

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Edited by
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00:00 Intro
00:26 Topic for today: Characters that have fallen off
00:55 Byleth
03:14 There are better sword characters (Corrin, Sora, etc.)
08:32 Sephiroth
10:21 Frame trapping is underrated
#SmashBros #TweekTalks #Ultimate
11:34 Sephiroth (cont.)

[@wilsonsecaur1015]

Tweek Talks Jr

[@TheBadBuffalo]

Lil Talks

[@reganhavens-de8qs]

Tweek Talks less than normal

[@brianv3134]

This wasn’t as long as a Tweek Talks, it was more like a Charles Chat.

[@GyatRizzler69-of3wl]

Charles carries the podcast ngl

[@abghen2323]

I like Chuck chat more

[@hecty8667]

It’s crazy how byleth has won more majors than most top tiers 😭 that’s the Leo effect

[@Faerghast]

As a Byleth player who is seriously working on a co-main (Fox), it really is true what is being said here. But its also true that characters falling off, like Chuck mentioned in the video, that character's strength and weaknesses are the most relevant at top "I travelled to be here and I'm sponsored" level. I think locally or even regionally you shouldn't worry too much about characters falling off if you're not in the niche of a niche of a niche of top 100 in the world or whatever. If you love Byleth or Seph and like using them and pushing them in spite of their flaws, bc you love their franchise or how they play, that's great. This is why Reno/Rizeasu are so inspiring. They are pushing the boundaries of Byleth and its so fun to watch them develop the character at top level. For me, it does feel like Byleth/Seph can be really strong co-mains/secondaries for another archetype of character that might struggle with certain characters. Fox does pretty poorly into IC's, Luigi, GnW and like some heavies/FGC, but in those MUs Byleth/Seph can really shine and play their neutral and leverage their strengths in range without being completely ran over due to their speed. Of course, like they mentioned, they are outclassed by Cloud/Corrin/Minmin. But I jive with Byleth's unique moves and like pushing them. So despite them being "Cloud 3" they can really work if you've put the effort in already!

[@5hyguy42]

This comment is about the same length as the video

[@owenkirby8998]

Tweek Mentions

[@isaiahcarter5269]

This is the best one 💀💀

[@ponderingfox]

When Leo won a tournament by using Byleth in the last game of Grands, I think we all thought it was a fluke. And then he proceeded to roll over everyone with Byleth for a while.

[@christiankoll1528]

I think that says more about how good Leo is than Byleth. I understand things like matchups, frame data, tournament results, and all kinds of other things make up what makes a character "good." But at the end of the day, the top players are going to be the top players despite their character choices for the most part. Of course, playing with a meta in mind is always a thing in competitions, but the players who dedicate thier lives to the game by showing up to tournaments, practicing thier asses off, and cultivating a community of competition are going to win the tournaments, not the characters.

[@ponderingfox]

@@christiankoll1528 Of course. But there was a period of time when no one had an answer for it. The meta has moved on right now, but the Byleth was interesting.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

IIRC he was switching to a better MU against GnW

[@HDzTroll]

​@@nathanlevesque7812 maister gave up at that point after losing 5 games and told Leo to go Byleth

[@nathanlevesque7812]

@@HDzTroll also yes

[@OniiChanPls]

Tweek talks briefly

[@eanderson9599]

Charles should become an actor, he’s got “that” face

[@trombonegamer14]

Thank you little Tweek for this smol blessing

[@jandaxprss6784]

So I did a little research today on Young Link before work. He’s top 15 in almost every mobility stat. He only has 2 stats outside of top 25. Dash speed and out of shield options. His nair is the slowest out of shield option in the game when compared to every other characters fastest out of shield option. Which is a frame 4 move that becomes frame 7 out of shield. However the dash speed can be mitigated by optimizing the Initial Dash Speed Young link has which is top 7 in the game. Almost like Kazuya crouch cancel. You can mash dash over and over to maximize young links speed of course if you’re willing to learn the 12 frame timing window necessary. Which btw ties for the lowest amount of frames needed to reach Initial Dash Speed Distance by any character in the game. Combine this knowledge with the over all frame data of young links moveset and the ability to find an optimal use for every single tool in his kit. exactly how do we have him as not even top 10 on the official list? Let alone the fact he’s at 38th. I don’t want to hear he can’t kill either. HE CAN!!! We’re all just scrubs who either stale out our down air too early especially with double bounce down air at 0% (which deals 40 and counts as two tags on the stale move counter)or we lack the awareness to go for all his other true kill confirm setups that work between 70-120%. You wonder why we’re fishing till 150%+ and none of our kill confirms work anymore. now you have the answer.

[@CarbonMalite]

If Byleths dair is 1 frame from being a combo off footstool and the opponents shield is damaged, does footstool dair work? Shield break is just the better outcome for KO potential

[@charlie2443]

It is a valid setup vs. low shields if they don't have a frame 1 escape/low profile.

[@Sogoussb]

Good luck at Kawaii Kon

[@l.n.3372]

The problem with some characters is that they usually have good overall results if they have A) many good reps or B) 1 or 2 amazing reps. Byleth was scenario B) in that MK Leo carried the character to success and tournament victories. Without Leo, Byleth isn't going to be used as often and nobody can match that success. By contrast, even without Zomba winning Genesis, ROB was going to achieve decent results because ROB is one of the most commonly played characters in the game.

[@LoadedKlip]

I don't understand why Leo refuses to use Corrin when it was Leo who first showed us how powerful Corrin was in 2022 making Gluto Sparg0 and others look free.

[@yerthebestaround9654]

Joker and ROB are still better and possibly more interesting to him would be my guess

[@velo7523]

@@yerthebestaround9654the problem with that is that Joker struggles to kill consistently without Arsene or difficult combos. The amount of times Leo’s opponents are living to 170+ is insane. Corrin and cloud can kill of raw attacks much easier

[@GyatRizzler69-of3wl]

Because he’s bad

[@l.n.3372]

What's difficult to understand? Leo probably enjoys playing other characters more than Corrin. If Leo wanted to play the best character, he would just pick Steve instead of Corrin. Same reason why Cosmos sticks with Aegis regardless of how he used to be amazing with Corrin in Smash 4.

[@WesleyFiles]

Leo prefers male fighters. Male Corrin has a shit voice actor for the English version of Ultimate, and so the male Corrin is considered very lame. Leo doesn't want to be lame.

[@Josh_ua]

Thanks for the content while you're all busy.

[@JonnyJayKhan]

Low-key Mario has fallen off now, Kurama popped off for a bit having optimised the character but he hard loses to Steve GnW Sonic and Aegis so gg

[@MasterAbeer101]

Mini Tweek Talks! Thank you for putting out a small episode regardless how busy each one of you are, good luck at Kawaii Kon Tweek :)

[@mochikinako78]

10:11 I wish sephiroth up throw kills… that move just visually looks like a move that is meant to kill, I wonder if they toned it down for balancing

[@tlk4554]

It seems like they (the devs) were SO worried about him being broken that they forgot to make him good. I’ve come to realize that Sakurai’s boss design mentality for Sephiroth is flawed when you consider that bosses are always meant to be defeated. So it’s like he designed Sephiroth to lose.

[@jessetucker3997]

When the opponent is 160%+ it should change so he tosses them up and then skewers them on the sword, instantly killing them.

[@Moegivesmelife]

Even though it's a mini episode, it's much appreciated!

[@chaddydaddy267]

Byleth can actually footstool dair oos if the opponent has an unhealthy shield. However, the opponent can crouch before the dair comes out to avoid it since crouch is frame 1. It doesn’t work against all characters though

[@user-uc5un2sm1b]

so it can still be a useful shield break set up, most people would probably just shield right

[@DrOmnipotent]

This episode was short and sweet. Yall 🔥

[@eanderson9599]

Pac-Man fell off because Tea barely goes to events and uses Kazuya half the time

[@Mintininja_SSB]

I know its recency bias but like Genesis?

[@_witherrs_]

I’m still a Pac-Man believer he’s cracked but he definitely needs a consistent rep.

[@eanderson9599]

@@Mintininja_SSB Genesis and Umebura I believe were his 2 events

[@eanderson9599]

@blurry.magnets you are completely correct and I wish they’d address this point. If Sonix decides to pursue a medical degree tomorrow and quits smash, people will say Sonic fell off in the meta even though nothing really changed

[@ryan_raus]

15 minutes?! That’s actually perfect for today 🙏🏼

[@MerryBlind]

1:19 It's similar for Ike. His Down-Air is like 1 frame or a few pixels off from being able to Footstool>D-Air. Considering his bad OoS game, that would have at least given him something. If you try it frame-by-frame you can generally see the tip of the blade touch the opponent but the hitbox doesn't quite go low enough.

[@lududelubin3011]

Can it threaten a shield break if the opponent has an unhealthy shield?

[@MerryBlind]

@@lududelubin3011 Ike’s Down-Air doesn’t do particularly high shield damage so no hitting a full shield or near-full with it won’t do much.

[@THXKXNG]

Neutral B, LVL.1 is actually good. You can combo tilts into the projectile & it moves slow enough to act as a wall.

[@mohammadalhusaini810]

Bro didn’t consider the abysmal amount of endlag it has

[@TheGFFA]

Chuck Chats

[@ghiblifanta8634]

I love Seph in Tweek´s hands.

[@Inukitsoq]

Appreciate that you're doing this, when you could just take a break. Enjoy Hawaii!

[@RemixkingDystansy]

MINI TWEEK LET'S GOOOOO

[@kylesantos5536]

Where’s the bonus episode?? I don’t see it on the patreon

[@majorpackage5392]

No Spotify?? :(

[@zate5355]

I think fs dair for byleth still has a place cause its so good at breaking shields. Depends if they can move their hitbox away in time

[@EnsembleVGM]

Haven’t watched yet they best mention lucina

[@ramchop-_-7320]

YOOOOOO

[@j.prt.979]

Up b bair at ledge is definitely a nightmare scenario vs Byleth lol. Kills at like 30

[@bolovx2339]

Ah! Charles jumpscare

[@uchihaclan77]

Grab your favorite beverage and snack. We’re in for a good one boys

[@zandertraveler2083]

Mii sword fighter is top for sure

[@Bot_967]

Tweek Chats

[@DerekNormann]

Tweek comments

[@Caw50]

Yo i been wanting to sub to the patreon for ages I'm boutta look it up I needa support my fave podcast, i listen to it every week and that bonus content be calling my name every week as well. Also tweek and i have the same birthday but im too nervous to talk to him at majors 🤓

[@MichaelOvules-ep5ti]

Tweet talks about falling off

[@David-pw9es]

truuuuue true

[@lududelubin3011]

0:21 Even if Byleth doesn't get a true punish via footstool d-air, I think it would likely still be practical especially against damaged shields. Threatening a shield break at -4 on block is kinda crazy

[@benji6325]

1:21 That's so tragic

[@StudyingManually]

Steve >>> Tweek'a mental

[@j.prt.979]

So is Tweek Talks moving towards being mostly on Patreon now? It seems like it

[@PhenylSSBU]

Tweek chats

[@seess8251]

Tweek Says

[@danielcastano9124]

🔥👏🏻🔥👏🏻🔥

[@daimajin266]

Did Tweek never talk about his Collision event since it happened?

[@antoineturgeon1437]

Byleth was always mid. Leo was just better than everyone.

[@doctordice2doctordice210]

Eh it's half n half, byleth is comfortably mid high-tier and Leo is a god

[@AtlasCorporationRAD]

Whack

[@vvindicator]

rip leo used byleth against ron from work

[@tk-zay5073]

Tweek tidbits

[@atticist]

Tall chair

[@slukass9631]

How is Pac Man falling off? Just because Tea isn’t as active? Lol. Rocke and Sinji are performing better than ever, respectively.

[@WildYGO]

Tweek mumbles

[@Tonjit41]

Tweek go play xenoblade chronicles

[@KidMuny93]

Tweak kinda talks

[@goldman1996]

I’m unemployed.

[@TurtleLiife]

Most smashers are

[@Greedude]

Tweek Talks fell off >:(

[@BOBSUSHI32]

Tweek just know we the people never discredit you losing to steve. Sucks community can’t come into unison. We know you’re still a top 5 player

[@GyatRizzler69-of3wl]

Hes a manchild it is what it is

[@SadFace229]

I consider Tweek one of the best problem solvers of the top players, a master trickster and magician. I and I believe the rest of us here are confident he will figure out the matchup in his own way.

[@GyatRizzler69-of3wl]

Byleth was always fake good because of its cheese, the tether baits on ledge just got cringe

[@antiform47]

wot

[@eanderson9599]

Byleth was always fake good

[@GyatRizzler69-of3wl]

Tweek barely talks

[@Fpl8646]

Bro gets destroyed by Steve and his mental gets blasts into oblivion 😂. Drops out of Majors, skips his podcasts.

[@scumxixx]

bro is yapping

[@mrb-btw]

he didn’t drop out of any major. in the previous episode they explained why tweek couldn’t make it. and he’s dealt with way harder losses before, he always bounces back

[@Perciprius_91]

Tweek uses a lot of filler words when he speaks. Edit: There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just an observation.