Tweek Talks about who ACTUALLY belongs in Smash | Episode 156

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Edited by
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00:00 Intro
00:42 Charles went to a local
01:51 Haz's regional experience & how important regionals are
03:20 Tweek back on streaming & Update on Tiny
06:32 Support the Patreon please! (+ patreon topic)
09:31 Smash and its identity with certain characters
18:15 This character gets into Smash because..
24:07 Characters that bring nothing to the table
27:44 If Marvel got into Smash..
28:46 How a character should be described if they want to be in Smash
30:03 The expectations have drastically changed
32:40 Maybe there aren't any rules
34:20 Back to Smash's identity
38:24 Would certain characters boost sales?
40:28 Master Chief & other FPS representatives
43:13 Charles' experience at Nintendo & the difference in commentary
46:02 Please be nice to Tweek
46:32 Haz's Gameshow
56:44 Outro & give us more game ideas!
#SmashBros #TweekTalks #Ultimate

[@thomas2871]

Tweek is completely right, why would we want Smash to turn into a billboard for every corporation that can afford it?

[@Lvl7susceptible]

Tweek is right, if you want that other crap, you don't actually like smash

[@KidMuny93]

@@Lvl7susceptible This makes no sense, i dont understand how you can tell someone how to like/love something. If they love smash but also want spiderman in it, well so be it. Some people say its wrong to be gay, but is it. Love is love. If someone loves smash but also want more in it , more to love.

[@mrbluebob1066]

@@KidMuny93 Obviously I get where you’re coming from and everyone has the right to enjoy things and live in their own way. But wanting Spider-Man in smash fundamentals disrespects the concept of smash to a point where I don’t believe you appreciate what the game is at that point. Thats like saying Darth Vader should be in the next avengers just because he’s cool. That would be cool but that’s not what either of those series stand for

[@KidMuny93]

@@mrbluebob1066 I hate to be a broken record but when you says it "disrepects smash" thats just you being an elitist. Disrepecting smash would canceling tournments , oh right... they do/did that.. Disrespecting smash would not give money and incentives to grow the community.. oh wait that do/did that...etc.. adding a character that people love would no do that in the eyes of 95%. When i talk im speaking out of the casual audience, the people reacting, watching, playing, etc.. not the sub 5% of pros. Loving something isnt just 1 way.

[@luigisuper4143]

​@@KidMuny93At the very least if Spiderman is someone's most wanted character for Smash they are not a Nintendo fan. Smash is primarily and overall a Nintendo crossover fighting game with third party guests. Compare the number of Nintendo characters and guest characters.

[@PsQueak2]

If I KO Tracer and she just rewinds the entire stock, I'm throwing the controller

[@6PathsGohan]

😭 I'd throw up

[@Jelliott_ssb]

Her ability rewinds like the last three seconds, imagine hitting that after getting hit by Steve for 80 💀

[@thelordoftheweebs9501]

Her rewind would be like a counter. She heals and respawns. Plus, with her speed, I'd be scared to get hit with the next attack.

[@BlzOmega47-ud2kv]

I believe Sakurai gave an interview (with Eurogamer) that he will not add characters originating from anime or comics into the game because Super Smash Bros. is meant to be a celebration of gaming history. This means that only characters with video game origins are considered for inclusion in the roster.

[@AyiteB]

I think he was talking specifically about the upcoming game. Not forever.

[@ryan_raus]

I agree. As cool as it would be to see Goku or SpiderMan or something like that, they really don’t belong

[@BlzOmega47-ud2kv]

@@AyiteB Yeah, it’s ultimately up to Sakurai whether he wants to change his mind, which can happen. However, i could be wrong, despite the massive influx of anime and cartoon characters these days, no character from these genres has made it into Smash, even as spirits, throughout the entire smash history.

[@BlzOmega47-ud2kv]

@@ryan_raus I agree. The problem is that if one or two anime/comic characters are included, it won't stop there. It would open the floodgates of fanboys demanding their favorite anime characters. I foresee a future where there is an online war between several fanbase fighting over which characters are more worthy or iconic than others.

[@trombonegamer14]

Okay but that doesn't preclude indie characters, or literally any possible video game character that's important to gaming history. And frankly, they're going to need to add an indie rep if the intent is to accurately represent gaming history. Yes technically Steve counts, but he is a Microsoft mascot at this point more so than an indie darling like Zagreus or Hollow Knight would be

[@rootsapplication3370]

I think what Tweek is trying to say is that Smash is a celebration of beloved video game characters. There is nothing character drivin about fortnite, or valorant or overwatch that could ever make them as iconic as Link or Mario. And while the characters in Marvel are beloved, Spiderman is a beloved ip, not a beloved video game character. Tweeks criteria is that Smash characters should have strong roots in gaming and have had a impactful and meaningful presence on gamers. Jonesy from Fortnite is not meaningful, Jett from Valorant and Winston from Overwatch has not had the same impact on players as Steve or Diddy Kong or Sora or all these strong and beloved characters that makeup Smash Bros.

[@COINLAUNCHERZ]

Yea I think u nailed it, my exact thoughts too

[@JackBz]

I don't see how this relates to the indie game characters aspect though

[@Bradley_War]

Well said

[@ForzasPanda]

agreed

[@Airid]

I agree with this except for Steve. Steve is literally just the default skin for the game. In terms of in universe story, lore, personality, individuality, and being memorable lore wise someone like tracer blows Steve out of the water. Can say the same for someone like min min, or any pokemon added Lucio and onwards, although they are Nintendo IPs so they get a rep, aren’t impactful characters like link and Mario lore wise or importance

[@ne2359]

I hope Haz knows how wonderful he is for the podcast. The way he bursts out with energy makes something like the intro to this episode that much better!

[@Lvl7susceptible]

True

[@Luma_29]

So real

[@CronaSSBU]

we seriously need cookin momma in smash

[@competitively3315]

Spider-Man doesn’t sound like a balanced character

[@glasselevator]

I think I mostly agree with Tweek but I'm a little bit confused on some parts of his argument about Smash's identity. I agree that League of Legends, Valorant, etc. wouldn't be the best picks for characters and comic book origin characters should be off limits. But what's wrong with Shovel Knight or the Knight (Hollow Knight), I feel like these characters fit into smash so well and are videogame characters worth celebrating because people like them. Not every smash character came from a game that revolutionized the form of video games. I want to know what checkboxes he is talking about. He asks what people would be celebrating if Tracer was added to Smash, but I think it would simply be celebrating people's enjoyment of Overwatch. Now, whether Tracer is a good representative of Overwatch is a different question, or whether Overwatch is worth celebrating in the first place (lol). Just to not criticize him without taking a stance myself, I personally disliked both Inkling and Min Min's inclusion in Smash, because I don't like Splatoon or ARMS for various reasons. Min Min and Inkling seem to be fine enough characters in their own universes, but I think their addition is great for people who are/were fans of Splatoon and/or ARMS. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Banjo is noted as crazy landmark videogame history, but the games have a cult fanbase who love the character, and his design fits well in Smash, so it's enough to justify his inclusion.

[@rockinon011]

I agree the only place he missed is being against indie games. I think if the character becomes iconic and recognizable enough there are plenty of indie game characters who could fit the bill and they are well within the spirit of Smash.

[@gordonlouis5362]

Well put and fair, is this a real comment on a smash vid?

[@KamikazeNinja05]

Indie games are the new generation’s Nintendo games. AAA companies aren’t doing anything interesting, just making updated versions of past things. Indie devs need to make more with less just like Nintendo did with the limited technology in their early days.

[@alchemiist]

Banjo was close to being put into Melee. His addition to Smash was long overdue, and definitely loved by a lot of the folks that love the Mario or DK games

[@GKIBJosue]

Banjo is also one of the highest selling games on the 64. Not to mention Banjo is an Icon to a company (Rare) that was once very attached to Nintendo since NES era in 1986 and making some of their best selling games in the SNES and 64 era. So much so Rare was even in charge of making a few games using Nintendo’s beloved IPs like Donkey Kong Country and Star Fox. Yes Banjo has a cult following, but that cult was rooted from Nintendo culture.

[@scotta7859]

The unspoken rule is definitely that the character needs to come from Japan. I think Steve is the only character that breaks the mold in that regard. Diddy Kong/K Rool/Dark Samus were also designed by foreign devs, but they’re tied to legacy IPs so they get a pass.

[@JackBz]

Banjo

[@scotta7859]

@@JackBz oh fair enough

[@ln8496]

5 more fire emblem characters!!!

[@PsQueak2]

All jokes aside, if there's one FE character that feels left out of the equation, it's Anna just on pure legacy

[@PurposeDriven7_]

@@PsQueak2bro forgot Lin

[@PsQueak2]

@@PurposeDriven7_ nah it's just Anna has appeared in literally every single FE game, always. Her record is like, unmatched.

[@PurposeDriven7_]

@@PsQueak2she sucks tho

[@trombonegamer14]

"Live service multiplayer types of games" Splatoon??

[@aninsomniacalnerd3289]

Ah but it's nintendo. Theres clearly an idea of inclusions of a certain tier being heretic if they're third party and completely fine if they're a Nintendo character. Honestly i agree with a lot of what he said but the idea of smash that he holds sacred is strangely limited

[@python395]

Pretty sure he means free to play battle-pass type games. Splatoon is a $60 game without battle-pass and a really good single player mode and story.

[@GKIBJosue]

To be fair, Smash is originally a celebration of Nintendo AND gaming icons. Hence why we have R.O.B., Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, Miis and GnW, they are rooted in the culture of Nintendo. Splatoon is a Nintendo icon.

[@JB_CY]

I've always wanted some sort of Portal representation in smash. I don't know how they'd do it without it being really campy, but I'd still enjoy it.

[@Xearrik]

I'm not saying Spiderman should be in Smash, but let's not pretend like he doesn't have a serious video game pedigree. The first Spiderman game I played was on the Atari. Spiderman video games predate the NES. And I don't think there's ever been a console generation without multiple Spiderman games releasing on multiple platforms. Spiderman is a staple of gaming. He's more common than Donkey Kong. And if you want to know what Spiderman would be celebrating, it would Spiderman of course. If that's not enough, then how about comic video game characters. There are thousands of comic video games.

[@lunarteam9003]

chuck was going in on p-rod lmao he's a goat

[@quorth]

now i cant stop thinking about how hype spiderman would be in smash

[@oliverrenteria4200]

Give me Noah from Xenoblade Chronicles 3 and I'll be set for life.

[@UmbraStarWolf]

Same

[@saute7447]

I’m 100% with tweek on what new characters deserve to be in smash

[@Kukublu92]

The game show segment was great. Keep it coming!

[@bane_95_]

One of the best episodes in awhile. Just wish Pink could've been a part of it. Keep em coming, gents

[@ghoulrunnings]

i want tracer in smash ☝️😦

[@thelordoftheweebs9501]

Even though I'll be too distracted so do I.

[@ryan_raus]

I agree with Tweek, but it feels like he’s deciding who belongs based on vibes

[@sentoworf]

His whole argument is basically "those games suck" cause he's only into scrimblo games lol

[@alexmiller4055]

Overwatch was the last fps game to win game of the year if I’m not wrong and was the last big title before Fortnite changed gaming to be more live service which is why Overwatch had to change its model to keep up. It brought a ton of people into the shooter genre the game is pretty iconic imo but I am still playing today so I’m biased. The game is also not in a similar spot it was when ultimate was released which is why I think an Overwatch character was generating some support to add someone like tracer. I would love it personally but I don’t think it’ll happen cuz the hype dies.

[@titaniumsolid546]

Okay I like tweek but I’m glad they don’t follow his rules for characters 😭 we’d basically just have every insignificant Nintendo character under the sun, not that that’s always bad but this game has crossovers, and they need to lean into that

[@ZombieReese]

Nintendo crossovers bro. Keep it within that realm.

[@titaniumsolid546]

@@ZombieReese it’s not just a Nintendo game anymore. I’m not saying I want Goku, I’m just saying that I don’t think it should only be Nintendo. At that point you wouldn’t be using the series to its full potential

[@ZombieReese]

That's fair but it should be limited to IPs that have appeared on Nintendo products and have fan representation or are a focal point of Nintendo gaming history

[@theuzetz]

lmao they have literally followed exactly what tweek described this far, only videogame IPs that actually represent something meaningful to gaming as a whole

[@mukinabahtx338]

tweek’s notion about smash’s identity is spot on. smash has obviously gradually drifted further away from the purely nintendo exclusive roster of the first couple games, but i think it’s important for the essence of the game to really just have characters/franchises with a lot of soul and personality and i just don’t think you capture that same charm with like a fortnite rep lol

[@billbob9692]

Saying e-sports has no gaming cultural significance in a podcast that only exists due to smash e-sports.

[@mrbluebob1066]

Brother a professional E-Sports player is not saying esports had no significance 💀 He’s saying the CHARACTERS of these games have to significance. Which I believe is largely true. Fortnite would still be the exact same if all its characters were replaced with completely different characters, and the same goes for Valorant. Overwatch isn’t quite as bad cause at least they have some characteristics to make them unique but Overwatch still would be the exact same without Tracer. I personally don’t think a League character would be the end of the world though

[@billbob9692]

@@mrbluebob1066 I said cultural significance not significance. All of Fortnites identity is via other franchises so Tweeks argument is true in that specific case but League has it's own netflix show and tracer is clearly identifiable enough to be put in the thumnail.

[@aninsomniacalnerd3289]

​@@billbob9692i think theres a difference though, tracer doesnt feel like she captures the experience of playing overwatch, thats largely defined by the community. Shes kind of the promotional mascot of the game rather than a representation of its identity

[@billbob9692]

@@aninsomniacalnerd3289 That is a super high concept goalpost which plenty of the smash ult cast already fail to fall into.

[@ForzasPanda]

the master chief clips had me crying LMAOOOOO

[@GKIBJosue]

I agree with Tweek that despite originating from Games, Valorant/Fortnite/League don’t belong in Smash. They are live service games, and suppose the servers for those games eventually shut down, there is no trace left for those games besides merchandise. Hypothetically speaking, all the characters in Smash history can have their respective games played in 50 years from now.

[@darc5925]

I think an important aspect people tend to overlook is aesthetics. Some characters just feel they make more sense being in game than others. To me that's why Sora and Banjo feels so natural given their friendly, welcoming design that makes smash feel like a fun party game. Even Bayonetta fits this mold if you played Bayo 2 it feels very nintendo-y with it's colorful graphics and all's well that ends well ending and fun costumes. To me adding superheroes to the mix feels too out there and could open Pandora's Box of well if they got in, better expect Totoro and Lighting McQueen and if we all get comfortable and still want more what's next? Expect celebrities? Are we going to get Kim Kardashian and Audrey Hepburn in smash? I guess miis already fill that part. We also forget Nintendo mainly focuses on the Japanese audience and their fighter passes kinda shows that. Personally I don't vibe with the hyper realistic, gritty characters and would prefer characters that have a bit of a feminine touch. I personally would like TWEWY and/or Ace Attorney over non video game media and would like, if they went the deluxe route, expand the ones with only one rep with another either as an echo or original.

[@ForzasPanda]

"Back in my day" - Tweek, 2024

[@taco0901]

I get the spiderman and tracer etc. stuff but I just don't understand the viewpoint in terms of indie games, especially popular ones. feels like kind of a blanket statement of "oh it's an indie game that got popular, therefore nah I don't think that belongs in smash." main example being the knight from hollow knight, I believe it absolutely would impact people's desire to pick up smash / the switch or it's successor to play smash, hollow knight, and eventually silksong. that's what smash is, a celebration of Nintendo + gaming. idk the knight just seems to fit right in those terms, not to mention covering an interesting genre, being metroidvania (despite metroid and Castlevania both being in lol). I wish I understood the viewpoint there, but I do agree on spiderman etc. feeling off.

[@aninsomniacalnerd3289]

Literally it's so strangely elitist. I think it comes from the experience of a lot of third party characters only making it after years of pleading. Honestly all of tweek's points feel 100% driven by his experience of the series, obviously theres nothing wrong with that, but the idea that catering to audiences that arent 20 somethings who grew up with the series breaks it is ludicrous

[@FreddeGreddeMusic]

I think the idea is that they're not iconic yet, they're such young game series that could for all we know be a one hit wonder and die again. While the most classic smash bros characters have had lots of games people love.

[@luigisuper4143]

All this crazy character requests and I still want Bandana Dee.

[@boonger]

I loved Haz's gameshow omg its so good

[@anthonynguyen9347]

A lot of mental gymnastics going on lmao

[@timms4616]

Tweek was not tripping with this take

[@timms4616]

He’s 100% right

[@patrickreyna9869]

Dante from Devil May Cry (capcom is already a big part of smash) Kyo Kusanagi from KOF (your fav platformer wouldn’t exist without KOF)

[@peterbaier9678]

I'm sure all the ROB mains play him because they love ROB. There's plenty of characters already in smash that mean nothing to most and mean the world to some. The debate of Spiderman is great for this reason, to some people he means the world, some don't care. I agree with tweek about esports driven games tho, I love league but there's not one character I can think of that wouldn't just scream "this made riot games a lot of money" if I saw them in smash. However, if jinx in smash convinced my friends to play smash with me, I'm all for it.

[@soufien1178]

Hollow knight would be a good fit

[@misterd5272]

love when we get passionate tweek once every few weeks

[@brentdalton6355]

Haz and Charles trolling Tweek was hilarious 😂

[@AokoKalajian]

Theres a lot i dont agree with but i realy hope we dont get an anime/movie chericter

[@TonyStorm21]

I wouldnt call what Square Enix did to Nintendo with FF7 a "Betrayal" really, it was just conflict of interest, Square wanted a route that Nintendo was not going to take and Sony did so they jumped ship, still Square continued to work with Nintendo a few times like they did with FFTactics which had a game both on PS and Advance. They didnt betray Nintendo, just wanted a different path and when their paths aligned again, they went back to working together, its just business. Cloud was still very doable, what I did never see coming was both Sephiroth AND Sora, having 2 very different characters from the same 3rd party franchise was crazy.

[@builtwmilktea]

Tweek was really talkin this episode. Facts were spoken

[@boonger]

I think it depends on the execution as far as adding a character from a live service/esport game to Smash. Plenty of characters from something like Overwatch have their own identity and I think are totally fleshed out as far as their design and them as an actual character.

[@boonger]

I also think perspective matters because I grew up playing Overwatch when it first came out and lots of the original character designs like Tracer Reinhardt and Soldier are super iconic and feel like real and natural characters to me

[@aninsomniacalnerd3289]

I think charm and identity should be the ultimate defining characteristics of third party inclusions (and all inclusions tbh but it doesnt matter when its Nintendo does it). And I mean identity in a cultural sense too, not simply differences. I think a lot of indie games do qualify for this and the main difference between my perspective and tweek's is what he considers iconic enough. Honestly the bilboardization of smash can be done well. Theres no reason for that to be held sacred when its exclusive to nintendo and not fot indie games which can be really charming and soulful

[@zacharysegalewitz]

This was a fun episode

[@satan-kun8974]

Loved this episode

[@iDSW1]

This episode got me thinking okay boomer at tweek every 30 seconds. We're the same age, but I didn't grow up with Nintendo consoles so venturing outside of the "traditional smash format" is the most interesting part of their character additions to me. And since Nintendo keeps growing and gaining audiences that didn't necessarily grow up with them it seems like they're only gonna keep venturing further and further out fo the traditional mold they set up for themselves. Ultimate getting Sans, Doom Guy, and Steve shows that its a direction they where already starting to flirt with and I would be shocked that if there is a next game they wouldn't delve even further.

[@BringBackOGClubPenguin]

I fully agree, maybe my perspective is kinda influenced by the fact that I’ve never gotten a character I wanted into smash added, but i feel like smash isn’t a celebration of Nintendo (more than half the games have third party characters), at most it’s a celebration of gaming, but mainly it’s just a crossover fighting game. It seems that the games with “No soul” are just games they don’t like, Pokémon for example could be categorized as a game with “No soul” for a long time now but no one complains about their inclusion.

[@Lvl7susceptible]

If you didn't grow up with nintendo your opinion is not valid

[@BringBackOGClubPenguin]

@@Lvl7susceptible literally why it’s elitist

[@luigisuper4143]

I think I'm younger than you and I want primarily Nintendo characters in Smash. Smash was created as a Nintendo crossiver fighting game. I want Bandana Dee, Raven Beak, Skull kid, Impa, new Pokemon, Kamek, Noah and Mio...

[@BrandonMcBarrettFace]

If a character from a movie or a Live Service game makes it in, it's going to feel like cross sell marketing to me and it would make me sad. If a character originated in the cultural arena of Video Games (I put it this way to include characters like ROB), and that's where it has made its strongest impact on other games and on people's imaginations, then it should be a candidate imo.

[@johannessundqvist8181]

It’s crazy to me how crash bandicoot still isn’t in smash after all of the DLC.

[@thelordoftheweebs9501]

Nor rayman. Especially since he got a trophy in smash 4

[@ConradSly]

What I want more for smash than new characters, is to see how the platform fighter genre can evolve, especially outside of the competitive 1v1 / 2v2 formats of fighting games. A lot of people remember the Subspace Emissary as being an excellent example of what else this genre can do in the form of a single player, possibly co-op mode experience for platform fighters, and I think there's a lot more potential there in terms of design to really flesh out amazing co-op experiences to come along with the competitive modes of the game.

[@mayor4797]

The gameshow was 🔥

[@St.Aether]

BACK IN MY DAY!!!!!

[@saute7447]

When he was talking shit about p-rods nickname was screammmminnnn lol

[@perriwinkleiii5361]

That game is very fun, do more in the future!

[@markzuckerburg120]

12:50 what came to mind was characters that come from games where there is a story with the character, should be a candidate for Smash. A few outlier’s are Min Min and Steve, both games are missing a concrete story. If they had a story I’m sure there would be a larger group supporting their involvement in Smash.

[@CarbonMalite]

As far as the cohesiveness of the roster, I feel like Snake would be less interesting a pick if he came with like 3 other gritty footsoldier types like Doomguy/Master Chief. I feel like others might feel that way about the overabundance of JP sword fighters

[@regirob2360]

Tweek actually got so excited when he thought Charles said Smash 4 LMAO

[@JosephRauch64]

Referencing around minute 36, I'm a stereotypical "casual" (prob Haz or Marcus' age, considered good among my casual friends, 0-2 in the one local I went to, don't play online, etc.). In case this comment provides any insight, I'm totally with Tweek. I don't want Spider-Man, League of Legends, etc. I want Leon Kennedy, Master Chief, Crash Bandicoot, etc. I think Viewtiful Joe is perfect for Smash, too, but I'm guessing barely anyone else cares about that character lol.

[@basebassguy]

I'm loving gameshow Haz, pls keep em coming! Also to Tweek, talk your shit king, not mad in the slightest.

[@mukinabahtx338]

even though it was sort of all over the place, i feel like it’s obvious what tweek is getting at in terms of smash’s identity and idk how anyone could think adding anime characters, comic characters, mobile game characters, fortnight, pay to win characters, etc would be a good thing for smash

[@marcoquesada6656]

LEGO is gonna be in smash

[@TeeMac009]

Tweek Talks. Tweek Watches. Tweek Judges.

[@Weebfox]

Really fun and interesting discussion (and please give us DMC in smash) Also Im SO DOWN for these Haz games that was dope!

[@JackBz]

I need more elaboration on why no indie game characters. What difference does the behind the scenes financial situation make on if a character was iconic or genre defining? Especially since literally the definitions of an indie game and AAA game are the most blurry they have ever been. I agree with most other points, but I dunno why a character should have to be in multiple games either. I don't think Skull Kid would be out of place. Lmao @ "Here's Tracer! Blizzard fucking sucks" Also why is Goku any different from Spider-man? Especially in terms of videogame history. He has been in videogames since the 80s and more videogames than most characters in smash, and is probably in more fighting games than most videogame characters in existence. But I still agree overall he wouldn't fit.

[@Stormblessed387]

Would star killer from force unleashed or a mortal combat character break smashes identity?

[@joey5745]

Thing about these iconic characters from other media is you’re eventually not gonna see the OGs anymore if you keep adding these new big names. You’ll just see Spider-Man vs Goku vs Tracer vs Shrek, There’s plenty of Nintendo characters that become fighters, and Videogame characters too,

[@misterd5272]

For the next smash: Master Chief Gordon Freeman Chell

[@chancehill6015]

I would main Illidan or Arthas the Lich King so fast, even if they were as bad as Ganon LOL

[@6PathsGohan]

Give me Dante and Vergil 😠

[@chuxnorris919]

I guess I understand what Tweek is saying but wanna challenge his criteria with the examples of: 7 fire emblem characters (they’re all iconic and standalone?), Wii Fit Trainer, Lucas (a side character not even playable), Pirahna Plant, the Miis etc etc

[@bert6236]

Saying Shovel Knight would open a door that shouldn't be opened is so silly lmao

[@_Nex_NV]

I'm 100% With Gavin. Its so hard to discuss this topic when someone who wants their favorite characters to get in. Wanting a big 3rd party to increase a sale is selfish tactic the muddies the love you're trying to represent in Smash. I get the dlc is like that in a way but when sakurai talks in depth about a character like Terry, he talks about his youth and experience with the game which shows his love and care. I always thought iconic NES era or old retro games that made an impact in media and changed the way game companies think would have a better chance at becoming a character. When you celebrate gaming with millions its hard to pick characters because we all have our own celebration and love with different games

[@extonjonas6820]

Spiderman is not a video game character. Sure, he is in video games, but he is a comic character. If they are not at least originally from a video game, we should not even talk about them.

[@thelocs5935]

I love this episode. The regular content going over tournament results and current storyline is cool, but I really love to hear you guys dip in to the speculation side and debate for each side of the coin. Awesome content, more stuff like this please boys!

[@johnowens2270]

For zelda... you can have any of the majoras mask transformations as a character because they are all very unique and have been around since the 90s.. Goran, Zora at minimum

[@AaronMiller1010]

I'm going to need tweek to explain the whole "no indies" thing because i did not understand. Is it that they aren't iconic enough because indies are relatively new?

[@ConradSly]

my top list of characters to see in smash: 1.) Bomberman 2.) Master Higgins (Adventure Island is a classic NES game way ahead of its time imo). 3.) Geno and/or Mallow from SMRPG 4.) Zero or Sigma from Megaman (way too many great mega man games for how under presented the franchise is) 5.) Doctor Robotnik/Eggman 5.) Crono from Chrono Trigger 6.) Slippy and Peppy from Star Fox (would really like to see how the spacy archetype can continue to evolve through these characters) 7.) Dixie Kong 8.) Tarnished from Elden Ring, with a variety of ashes of war as smash attacks and/or spells and b-skills. IMO Elden Ring is exactly the type of modern game that fits the "criteria" of a modern classic video game. 9.) Arthas, Thrall, Malfurion or Tyrande and Jaina or Uther from Warcraft 10.) Jim Raynor, Kerrigan, and Fenix from Starcraft

[@ConradSly]

OH an there are a lot more Pokemon on the table. I almost wish we could just have a smash-like tag team game with only pokemon, and there were in-game evolution mechanics.

[@jcmm99]

anyone who skates would know p-rod

[@kekoroto]

I love Smash Bros so much since I was a kid playing 64. I love Smash because of how it plays compared to other fighting games (and it's the only fighting game I play because of that), not necessarily because it has Nintendo characters or "beloved gaming characters". I'd be so happy if they added League of Legends characters, anime characters or whatever they want to add as long as the gameplay is still as fun as it's always been. Respectfully, I don't know how Tweek could feel like such a boomer this episode when he isn't even that old. I love all kinds of games, not just Nintendo games, and calling League of Overwatch bad games because they're live service and saying people should like "better characters" is just plain stupid imo.

[@justanothermanontheinternet]

I would be so hype for Hornet in smash 6

[@brownround5463]

tweek defintely got some very strong opinions lmao we need someone who needs to play devils advocate imo

[@blas787]

Shout out your local haz!

[@Axeloy]

gavin's buggin

[@Camoking48]

People can hate on Kindom hearts but Sora was still the #1 requested char of all time and KH is huge it took the number 1 stream sale spot on day one when it was released on steam

[@spectrum_opus]

It's crazy how Tweek had to defend his opinion on Spiderman or characters like that not being in smash. 😂

[@UmbraStarWolf]

My wish list is only Noah or Mio from Xenoblade 3

[@quantum6637]

I hope Tweek was telling the truth in that he has an actual coherent opinion somewhere in there, because that was a bunch of complete nonsense. Tons of appeals to “soul” and “checking boxes” with no real point behind it all. A lot of trashing on game communities that he has no part of without any real argument.

[@aninsomniacalnerd3289]

Whoever called him a smash conservative really hit the nail on the head lol. But there is something to it. He's experienced this series really closely for a lot of his life and it makes sense for him to have strong ideas about it without being able to pinpoint everything considering the childhood attachment

[@Jjjr-]

My smash wish list is Jibanyan, hat kid, rayman, crash and chibi robo

[@MasterAbeer101]

Ngl SpiderMan in Smash would go so hard 😂. 46:22 oh no monkaS

[@grooseland8235]

58:09 58:09

[@grooseland8235]

58:09 58:09

[@sonnycollins9285]

I want Kratos in smash, he seems to check the boxes tweek mentions. Is there any reason why he isn’t in the discussion?

[@arcadia6081]

I understand and agree that certain characters ruin the "feel" but when you argue "what are we celebrating" like dude we literally have byleth mythra and min min it's already been used as a marketing device

[@ThePancakeCafe]

Give us Iron Knuckle or Lynel! I wanna see Piranha Plant vs Bokoblin!

[@no_notes1229]

50:02 - I'm Norwegian.. how the h**l does Charles know - I have NO idea!? LOL

[@cameronazimi-tabrizi217]

Can y’all talk about the next potential Retro rep?

[@JellyEater28]

i think it's more like pop culture picks/internet culture or video game picks.

[@CoNiferousTM]

OK, hear me out: I think Mickey Mouse would be a valid addition low key. I know the character isn’t revolutionary to gaming or anything, but It was revolutionary to media in general. And there are also Nintendo exclusive Mickey games. Mickey literally rivals or outright beats Mario in popularity and would be that next “we need a BIG character” type addition. And he wouldn’t look that weird standing next to other smash characters. Obviously this might open the door to just add any Disney character, but Nintendo wouldn’t do that. But just Mickey would be like the next biggest 3rd party addition that wouldn’t ruin the soul or identity of Smash

[@nathanlevesque7812]

GnW is not from a videogame. The Game and Watch consoles didn't have a video display.

[@coolshirtkid]

you guys should do a tier list of how cool or lame characters are lol

[@JPeg35]

Tweek speaks fact

[@eanderson9599]

Tweek will tell you all this then say they should add paper Mario to smash