U turn on Intelligent Design

[@amadoubah8078]

This increase my Love and respect for you. May Allah forgive us all and unite us in AlJannah.

[@tareqallan]

In hadith science, if a narrator hesitates on a word in a narration, and gives a possible alternative to what his teacher might have actually said, it raised the narrator's rank as it shows his care for only narrating what is correct, and inshallah that reflects the same way on you here

[@doegyhon6516]

That's what a real Muslim would do, you deserve the trust we put on u thanks bro

[@alwaysflat7996]

2:03 Yes brother, if there was one thing I disagreed with you on, is the dismissal of the whole intelligent design concept, yes it's true, that scientific theories go through paradigm shifts, they sometimes morph, other times they can be abandoned altogether, but you don't need to be a scientist or to even subscribe to a particular scientific theory to recognise design, you don't need to be an architect to be able to recognise a building, etc.. So, I am really glad that you had a second thought and made a U turn on the issue, I have long followed the intelligent design movement and I know 99% of them are genuine, I read Stephen Meyers, Jonathan Wells, Michael Behe and many more and they have battled for truth, for true science, but Judge Jones (I believe was his name) ruled against them, without even taking any of their presented evidence into account. It's also true that the Qu'ran is a book of signs not science, however the signs can point directly into a scientific miracle or discovery. For instance, where Allah mentions the tip of the fingers? Why? It is more than obvious that he was pointing at something that will later be discovered and revolutionise how we perceive our uniqueness. Fingerprints. Qu'ran speaks of Al Alaq the leech, it does not matter if the steps are misrepresented etc.. what matters is he gave a clear description of the shape and the behaviour of the foetus in the womb, anything else could only be speculative. He mentions how we perceive mountains as being motionless but they move just like the slow moving clouds (figuratively of course) meaning very slowly and unnoticeable by the observer. There are hundreds of signs of this type which were referred to by the Qu'ran.

[@Aziz7ful]

I mean the thing about mountains not the others

[@libansheikh7067]

And when you understand the philosophy of science, it’s like wait a minute, you think all of these patterns come from “randomness”? Because non of this had to be the way it is, the reason why it seems regular because, you experienced the miracle of the earth rotating the sun every day, hence you take it for granted, and all mentions this

[@ceddynash5610]

Someone who never challenges/develops their own ideas, frankly, never grows. Keep up the amazing work brother , Jazzakhallah Khayr

[@Mr.Jasaw13]

Keep at it Suboor bro .. you are really good at this and you are, inshaa Allah, only gonna get better at it (in the future I'd like to see some books from you as a well respected biological/evolutionary philosopher ..when you crystallise and organise even more ). You have no idea how much confidence you give us.. especially, us, who love knowledge and feel the need that what we learn, we need to sort and categorise somewhere..like, we can't just leave it there ..it needs a place. ..to be intellectually satisfied or even spiritually (i'm not sure). It's not that we would otherwise lose our faith, rather, articulating what we know, intuitively, to be truth or close to it (like, at least the right direction) gives us some kind of confidence and internal satisfaction. .. so bro, keep it knowledgeable and humble and may Allah help you and keep you and your family in His protection and care, cus there's no protection, no care, really , besides His. Thank you, man. Jzk. Selam aleikum from Bosnia.

[@shayaandanish5831]

Wow, I had just watched the previous video and was against some of the claims you made. Great you made ammendments.

[@justdoit8075]

I'll use an example. There are tendons that pass through our wrist and attach into our fingertips. There is another band on the wrist that 'straps' these muscle tendons to the wrist. Without this retinaculum, the tendons don't 'bow out'. Without them, you get a condition called bowstringing (look it up to see how it looks). So, even a small thing like a sheet placed on top of tendons has such a significant purpose. Can I not say then that Allah Created this retinaculum to prevent the tendons from springing out? And can I not say that something like that can only come from an Intelligent Designer? And brother, this is only ONE of hundreds of thousands of anatomical structures that serve such fine purposes. There is physiology, biochemistry and histology that broaden it by a very huge margin. I would say that the human body is the biggest evidence for an Intelligent Designer and I cannot see it being non-deliberate. I'm not saying we should use this to prove Islam necessarily. But at the very least, it points against randomness coming into being.

[@Eman_Puedama]

KZbin seems to be messing about with my comments even on relatively uncontroversial topics. I just posted a long comment and it was double-posted. When I deleted one of them, they both went. Anyway... I'm not a Muslim, but I'm interested in this topic. My basic thoughts are that whether the designer which the intelligent design proponents say we can infer the existence of is embodied or disembodied, the assumption that the design process _itself_ has a supernatural element is implicit to the the argument. This is because the basis upon which they say you can infer design in biological systems is that these systems are examples of specified complexity and specified complexity cannot be explicable in terms of random chance or physical law. I do think that it's obviously more parsimonious to conclude that the ultimate designer of embodied forms is disembodied, but in a way, that's irrelevant - Either way, the argument still rests upon non-materialist philosophical assumptions (which I happen to agree with).

[@OriginalAndroidPhone]

(1) Saboor says he didn't give ID enough reflection (1:56). Says he stands by some of his objections that it reinforces scientism, and that ID is not NEEDED by Islam. (2) His main concern is that there is a reality that most people make a mistaken jump from seeing science not saying there is a God, to there not being a God. And that although this is predesigned into science (methodological naturalism), its real-life consequence is real. So from a consequential perspective, it does make sense to offer a scientific rival to atheism. (3) Saboor is no longer convinced that methodological naturalism should be entirely accepted without challenge. Says Ustdah Usman Ali who is very knowledgeable about biology has also contributed to his change in mind

[@Muslim604c]

Interesting. I think ID is worth reading about and engaging with. Even if we don't agree with the framework completely, there's still plenty to be learned

[@abunusaybah4165]

Wherever I look, within and from without of my self I find myself overwhelmed and can't help but marvel at the obvious and abundant clear intelligent designs that surround us which point to our Wise Maker Allahu Rabbil 'aalameen! "Behold in the creations of the Heavens and Earth, and in the alternation of night and day are signs for men of understanding!"

[@jivaji2028]

Its called indoctrination..

[@abunusaybah4165]

@@jivaji2028 WRONG! It's called using your God given intellect and inner intuition (fitrah)!

[@ahamedhamzisahulhameed66]

I had to listen to this a few times to let it sink it. Awesome clarification. MA may the All Mighty bless y'all.

[@ezaddinharun7952]

Believe me..u a smarter than most. I hd to listen many more times than u to hv somekind of understand. Actually I ddnt agree to bro subboor whn he talked abt id n hw he opposed to it. Since now he admitted wrong it actually a gud thing othrwise i wud agree on ethng bro suboor is saying whch is not right.

[@Naijiri.]

Interesing turn around on the ID concept. Good video.

[@mbasitbilal]

awesome video suboor bhai, I love how you accept the fact that a person can be wrong and there can be a better explanation. "Expelled: No intelligence allowed" by Ben Stein is a small documentry for those who want to better understand how the western world has played the game of spreading darwinian evolution at the same time undermining the Intelligent design.

[@زادالخيرصلعلىالنبي]

Speakers Corner misses you 💔

[@RsZ789]

Another benefit of ID is we no longer have to waste time trying to explain how a clearly designed aspect of nature is actually random. Such nonsense.

[@hz9537]

​@@Ihsaan1c 🤡🤡🤡 you use an islamophobic website that cherry picks translations and uses ones that propagated their view. to make it worse they don't know how to translate properly. the say banaynāhā is past tense and therefore it's not continuing completely ignoring the wa-innā. try again or don't unless you want to be embarrassed again. btw it took me 10 sec to find this www.islamawakened.com/quran/51/47/default.htm. the fact that you couldn't even do a simple google search to actually research shows how despicably dishonest and intellectual you are. but then i would expect nothing less from an atheist.

[@malamakkavu]

We have to use all our tools to know the beginning of the universe and to know our creator. In one point we will have to stop. beyond that point we don't have any tools to know . Then we have to depend other claims. We will see that the creator of the universe informed us thru the selected messengers and by his revelations. Those are the Creator's tools to give us guidance. If we hold on our own tools then we have to make u turn many times

[@shaheenamin7315]

Excellent! The clip at the end is a true representation of what the intelligent design movement seeks to achieve. I congratulate brother Subbor Ahmed on realising that.

[@Chapapapapapa]

Thank you brother, eventhough I didn't understand all of the scientific terms. Does he(Osman Ali) have youtube channel?

[@hasanshirazi9535]

I feel there is unnecessary confusion and grave error regarding what to make of Intelligent Design (ID) which is evident right from the formation of a cell to the order in the Cosmos. Further, considering ID as something purely "scientific" exacerbates the problem. The real issue which needs to be understood is that "Scientific Method (SM)" is not independent of "Rational Method (RM)". Rather SM is a subset of RM. In fact treating these two as separate methods of thinking results in all the confusion which is prevalent in the atheist scientific community nowadays. ID inevitably leads to the conclusion that there is a Creator, however, this conclusion is reached through application of RM on ID. I cannot go into details about SM and RM on a KZbin comment. Anyone interested in this can read the following for detailed discussion on this: www.quora.com/Does-God-exist/answer/Syed-Hasan-Shirazi

[@islamicsystem8346]

Brother you are our hero..... May you love long..... Just as my mother prays me by saying may you live long till the day of judgement

[@beehivepattern5695]

I guess br Suboor was right, a perfect design don't necesitate into morality. I just talk about spirit few moments ago, and found something a Great value about it.

[@islamicmessage2419]

Great video MASHAALLAH... Actually I think the point is what suboor does is that basically by argument we can prove that darwinism is not true and it has assumptions, speculations and all that.. And this is best for laymen public... But of a person wants to challenge evolution ie for proving it false... One should study and aquire knowledge of ID.. And it is obviously better and preferable because disproving something & challenging it will give more confidence to our youth and public... But that all ID stuff is for a person of high intellect ie a person who does detail study in these matters... But overall bro suboor has also done good work as he had given laymen public an easy way to defend themselves against darwinism simplicity by argument for eg...by mentioning Assumptions & speculations.... JAZAKALLAH...

[@sanderossi8013]

Mashalla Saboor this was the only thing I disagreed with you about. Intelligent design brought me to Islam. I am happy you went from dismissing it to doubting it.....I can’t wait for the next step. May Allah bless you for your awesome dawah work. Thank you brother

[@swalihmm]

Im confused about the contingency arguement used by Bro Hijab. Probably due ti my lack of knowledge in philosophy, i dont understand it. I wish you could help me by making a video describing it.

[@maxter1334]

Its the king of all arguments in my opinion it can be used by applying infinite regress to causation,dependency and movement its goes as follows if one thing is created by another and that thing by another and so on and so on to infinity then the universe wouldnnt exist ex:(if a sniper has to take down a target but he needs an order from an officer and that officer needs order from another and this goes on to infinity then the shot wouldnt ever take place)hence there needs to be a non cause a nessacary existence there in order for there to be something thats caused to exist now this can also be applied to movement as follows since there is movement there must be a mover and if A is moved by B and B by C etc etc then there must be something thats not moved a first mover(since infinite regress can be applied here also) and this first mover would have to have the knowledge of exactly in which way the dominoes would fall since the universe is concievable with laws governing it and we are in the goldilocks zone , it can also be applied to dependancy and also if someone brings the argument that the universe is determined it can also be applied to determinism if something is determined it must require a determiner i would suggest you read al ghazali’s books and mohammed hijabs book to better understand this topic

[@swalihmm]

@@maxter1334 thanks brother. I undwrstand the problem of infinite regress. But Bro Hijab speaks about universe having parts and everything had has parts in dependent on something else and so on... I dont understand that. The arguement you said is causation which i understand. I believe Hijab doesnt use causation arguement for whatsoever reasons.

[@maxter1334]

Swalih Mohammed the argument i said is not only about causation its about applying infinite regress to causation,dependency,movement and determinism i dont know much about his argument of the universe having parts you should read his book for that also al ghazalis books i think he was making the argument that the universe can be rearranged if it can be rearranged then its not nessacary because it can be concieved another way whereas a nessacary existence cannot be concieved any other way and i really think you should read these philosophers books also brother hijabs book and al ghazalis books it will open your mind

[@B055]

@@maxter1334 Yep, its the kryptonite to atheisim. (They can deny it as much they wish). Even though it doesn't prove a personal God, it proves a lot of the attributes that Allah described about Himself. E.g eternal, originator, power over all things etc. It is wholly logical and rational and the opposite is illogical and unfathomable.

[@maxter1334]

Haxsta yup its also funny to watch athiets baffled when presented with this🤣

[@AnswerEasy]

JazakAllah khayran. It was one of the few things I strongly disagreed with you. I read a lot about modern ID research and given that the Quran references this argument there's no reason to abandon it because people have metodological naturalism (which still stems from the philosophical one). The ID is a strong argument when well explained and it will always be, scientifically and philosophically. Salam alaykum

[@OSKESIS]

Pls bring sheikh osman ali in this channel. Do a podcast pls

[@matishakabdullah7339]

The fundamental question here is that, is there any purpose at all to our human and the universal existence? If there is purpose then design would have been a necessity. A simple example, for purpose to be more likely to survive as claims in evolution theory, animals and plants were designed with ability to reproduce more/in abundance. If it wasn't design from the start, perhaps a species as early as 1st generation shall easily vanish, as evolution to establish any treat surely would take a long times/after a few generations the least. Another example is that as the result developments without designed/plan for a long time survival/ sustainability purpose, or as have been practicing by simply following the concept of random evolution in developments to fulfill human greed, today the earth, our natural habitats, is threaten by catastrophic climatic changes!

[@tareqallan]

by the way, with the red lights flashing , it looks like you shot this video while being pulled over by a police officer lol

[@jn6676]

Good point about the scientific miracles as even if it does work to get people in, when they find out that it is wrong they will feel like they've been deceived and hold strong feelings against islam and muslims

[@SubboorAhmadAbbasi]

Good point

[@SquiredCircle]

@@pancakefist4716 kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5Cbo6Bte52te5Y

[@LIVERZ]

@@pancakefist4716 i recommend everyone here watches this video about forcing science in the quran if you haven't already. Alhamdulillah it is beneficial and a good channel to subscribe to for deeper knowledge kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHvWZqere9xgi7s

[@EMADness1988]

Ive been watching ur videos for a while now and i love it, but one thing i don’t understand is what is ur position on creation !? If not evolution nor intelligent design then what is ur belief ?

[@the.safeer]

I have this question for a long time, why u do not consider ID

[@asifurrahamansajon8777]

Can we have his video you mentioned.

[@medsah6096]

Tbh I didn't agree with your video where your said we shouldn't support intelligence design because just from a probabilistic perspective it doesn't make sense to not support it. For example how conveniant is it that the universe didn't collapse for 14 billion years and that this ball floating in it has been surviving for 4 billion years, 4 billion years is a crazy long time, life surviving is a chaotic universe for that long is an unimaginable very small chance. Also why is the space 3 dimensional and not like 99, why does matter have 3 states or 4 if you count plasma and not like 16, what decided these variables....

[@stokes58]

What I got from this is that, basically, the concept of intelligent design should be kept where it belongs - in the sciences, as an antidote to Darwinism. When applied to the nature of God and His attributes, is it not a form of anthropomorphism? In Arabic the word akl (intelligence) is a quality of the human being, Allah, s.w.t, is All-Knowing, All-Powerful. These attributes are not the same as intelligence.

[@erTalhaKhan]

What are your thoughts on Zakir Naik's approach? I think you can't just outrightly reject him. He never claims that science is the only way but he uses scientific facts(absolute which will not change) to convince people. He uses science as just 1 tool and also if you can show that only quran stands this test of science against other scriptures then it's really powerful (he has studied other scriptures in detail so he knows what he is saying).

[@mohammedalshalabi3122]

بارك الله فيك

[@BesimtariBerat]

Silent on human chump ancestory? Does that mean id confirms it? How in the world could we ever reconsile with this?

[@SubboorAhmadAbbasi]

Some ID people accept it others don't

[@MuhammadbinYusrat]

Assalam o Aaliakum, Brother when you are in Islamabad PLEASE tell me if its possible to meet you. I want to meet you, in sha Allah, the circle of friends I have will be very excited to meet you. Most of them are PAF Officers (young officers), we keep meeting them and if you came it will be such a big help. If possible please do let me know. Jazakallah Khair. May Allah reward you in this world and the next. Aameen.

[@malamakkavu]

If we depend man-made methods only to know the truth then you have to make u turn many times. Search for God's tools and guidance and let him guide us .

[@purposeoflife47]

I am bit confused by all your talk and by talk of Sir Usman. Does your u turn means ID is a valid argument for muslims to use or not? What the final dicision ? I am now confused. I am my self is a daee so plz simple tell me should we need to use this ID argument or not . Or if you can confused can you please tell me tha fatwa on both sides so i can dig it more for my understanding :) Thanks dear :)

[@aizatzain6596]

Purpose Of Life what I understand.. don't use ID as a theology or philosophical argments but can use it as a scientific arguments that limited to the philosophy of science

[@MrFreezook]

I highly recommend this video: Former Atheist, Muslim convert, Dr. Laurence B. Brown, refutes the widespread false ideologies that many atheists and so-called scientists propagate today. Titled: Atheism Refuted by Former Atheist, Muslim Convert

[@malhamaulkubra4437]

Intelligent Design Theory V Chance Theory

[@ZeeshanAli-tv8gu]

See, U turn is not always bad! ^^

[@anplusdre]

Im' sorry but i thought that door knob is a water drop on my screen :D

[@islamicsystem8346]

MashaAllah

[@razmiihsan8897]

Alhamdulillah.

[@crazy19895ify]

Заур, отзовись, пожалуйста.

[@shahid8545]

Imagine the ridiculousness of science determining Allah? Imagine if science could find him. Imagine the scientists doing case study of the creator and giving opinions of him and what they found. Just imagine how absurd that would be.

[@shahid8545]

my name is my name Materialism is one sliver of looking at the world. The problem is they make the sliver the whole, their intellect is broken. I mean even thinking and processing what Materalism is actually not using material haha

[@therealityforyou665]

god is not material thing

[@shahid8545]

@@therealityforyou665 hence why I said "imagine"

[@osasidemudia9737]

Blind leading the blind. What is the overwhelming scientific consensus on ID? Answer that question and stop kidding yourself big man.

[@RsZ789]

Scientific truth is not based on consensus. If we did, we'd reject Einstein's theories because Newtonian theories were the consensus. That also contradicts the reality of paradigm shifts in science.

[@osasidemudia9737]

@@RsZ789 scientific truth is based on falsifiable, verifiable facts. The moment you can prove something to be true, you've demonstrated a fact. ID has been debunked time and time again but you people would happily burry your heads in the sand as you wallow in ignorance. Again, blind leading the blind 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@RsZ789]

@@osasidemudia9737 How has it been debunked?

[@osasidemudia9737]

@@RsZ789 by the overwhelming evidence that supports evolution by natural selection or as our clueless OP here likes to call it - Darwinism.

[@CharlieReid60]

It's handy claiming science cant prove or disprove a god exists, perhaps because science deals with reality. Osman Ali fails to mention there are zero peer reviewed papers supporting ID. Behe's paper, which was altered so much just to be accepted as a science paper, ended up agreeing with evolution. ID is the classic 'god of the gaps' argument which is, it's complicated, we don't understand therefore god did it. There's nothing scientific about it.

[@furqanirfan911]

intelligent designer is also used in Quran

[@jivaji2028]

Semen comes from between backbone and ribs isnt that intelligent thing to say...

[@BoysInTheCave]

Massive Respect!

[@dannysmith821]

The holy bible tells us straight out that god made EVERYTHING through jesus christ the holy trinity of god with far superior knowledge than us created and made it all

[@aangellotti508]

I give you credit for admitting you think you are wrong. Unfortunately you are mistaken about being mistaken. The is no ID.

[@SubboorAhmadAbbasi]

Why

[@AnswerEasy]

But there's "nothing" sprouting something and among those things conscious beings capable of making abstractions? Preach your sermon elsewhere. You got the wrong door.

[@JoeMorreale1187]

aangellotti508 you know I’ve put up comments and links all over the place showing that your comment is not true at all now is it ?🤷🏻‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@OSKESIS]

Speaks a man with certainty? Actually i would also give you the credit for accepting that raping, looting and murdering can be seen as an activity of self recreation. Ur own words. Pls dnt take this comment offensive bro. Its just something you acknowledged and put forth as an example.

[@JoeMorreale1187]

Darwinian Delusions subhan Allah bro ! 👍😊☺️That makes so happy as this will add a powerful tool to the dawah against the atheists and their whole science against/ over religion myth that they subscribe to out of delusion or wilful ignorance

[@islamicsystem8346]

MashaAllah

[@islamicsystem8346]

MashaAllah

[@islamicsystem8346]

MashaAllah