Ukraine Crisis and the Church - His Eminence Chrysostomos of Messinia

[@jorritkeijzer873]

Respectfully, the Ecumenical Patriarchate has developed and promoted a framework that resembles a papal-like authority, implying that Orthodoxy cannot exist independently of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. However, this is not the case; Orthodoxy can exist perfectly fine without it, and if this framework persists without correction, that might become a reality. The EP’s actions in 2019 concerning the Ukrainian Orthodox Church are telling. The Patriarch has been transparent about his intentions, and his positions align with ecumenism and papism. Nevertheless, I continue to pray for Patriarch Bartholomew, for his health, and for a resolution to this schism before it is too late. The Moscow Patriarchate, while it has its own challenges, has not done anything damming as the likes we’ve seen from the EP in recent years. If we deny that this is not happening than we have a big problem.

[@apo.7898]

It can exist without the Patriarchate of Constantinople but it can exist without the Patriarchate of Moscow too. If Russia and the Russian Church continue on the path they are now they would end up having a Russian supremacist national pseudo-church. By the way see the things Kirill had said about Islam and he is in a Christian majority country. “We have a common moral basis: Orthodox and Muslims. It is important for us to work together to strengthen morality in society" . Completely ridiculous and that happens just because it aligns with the interests of the state.

[@meandros1678]

The Moscow Patriarch endorsed war against his own people the Ukrainians, hence doing something even more damnable. Furthermore Moscow undermines other patriarchs in their own territory, which is papal level insanity

[@michaelbasileos]

The mental gymnastics in this video are wild. The reason why Met. Onuphriy and his Holy Synod did not accept the invitation was because the schismatics recognized by the EP are canonically laypeople. How can he sit on a unification council with people who are not even actual bishops? A lot of His Eminence’s critiques of Russia have basis in truth, but this whole idea of Russia as the big boogeyman who is to blame for everything is overly simplistic and a cartoonish view of reality. There is one boogeyman for the Church and it’s the devil, not Russia which is just a nation state composed of simple human beings, nor the Russian Church, the Orthodoxy of which is accepted by all. Hoping for a more level headed critique of Russian Orthodoxy in the future.

[@apo.7898]

Russia has agents who try to influence the national churches, paraecclesiastical groups and fringe groups of fascists, communists, pagans etc.

[@jorritkeijzer873]

Thank you, I do not understand what is going on in the heads of these bishops under the EP (and some others). What the EP did was plainly wrong, you can't go around it. We need to have more conversations between the churches about this to correct this ASAP before it is too late!

[@apo.7898]

@@jorritkeijzer873 Why do you think it is wrong?

[@jorritkeijzer873]

@@apo.7898 Thank you for asking. Essentially, the Ecumenical Patriarch, under unclear motivations and I suspect with substantial financial backing from the U.S. State Department, entered the canonical territory of the Russian Orthodox Church and began engaging with schismatic groups there. The EP decided to rescind the 1686 decision that had granted oversight of the Kievan Metropolia to Moscow, effectively claiming about a third of the ROC’s jurisdiction. The EP went so far as to send letters to Metropolitan Onufriy, declaring that he was no longer a canonical bishop or the metropolitan of Kyiv, and then proceeded to grant autocephaly (independence) to these schismatic groups. There are two main issues here: 1. The EP recognized ordinations of individuals who hadn’t undergone proper canonical ordination. Instead of re-ordaining them through canonical bishops, the EP simply declared their ordinations valid, by the signing of some documents. Even the pope would not take such liberties, as ordination by a canonical bishop is essential for validity-these bishops did not receive the laying on of hands. 2. The EP acted unilaterally, without consulting or securing consent from the ROC. According to canon law, only the “mother church” has the authority to reconcile a schismatic group, and in this case, that mother church is the ROC. Bypassing the ROC in this matter implies a claim to universal jurisdiction, akin to that of the pope. So, is this action canonically legitimate? No. The EP justifies it by invoking a rule that allows for a church or diocese transferred to another jurisdiction to be reclaimed by the former jurisdiction-provided it’s within 30 years. But in this case, we’re roughly 300 years past that timeframe. In essence, the EP is positioning itself as a kind of Orthodox pope, overstepping its authority, with no canonical basis for its actions. It’s an unsettling parallel to the Great Schism, and it’s concerning to see this developing. I hope that helps clarify things a bit.

[@apo.7898]

@@jorritkeijzer873 Did ROCOR have valid bishops before the reapproachment with the Patriarchate of Russia? Do you know that when e.g. the Church of Greece declared its autocephaly it was schismatic? The Bulgarian Exarchate was schismatic. The Romanian Church was schismatic for 20 years. The Metropolis of Kiev from which the Russian church descends was schismatic. ROCOR had relations with Old Calendarist pseudo-churches. You think both UAOC and UOC-KP did not have valid ordinations and what is the difference with the other schismatic groups which got recognized?

[@meandros1678]

The EP did the right thing. It is no secret that Moscow is corrupted by russian authorities. It was insane that Moscow Patriarch endorsed war against Ukrainians, justifiying death of Orthodox on both side. Blessed are the peacemakers, blessed is patriarch Bartholomew

[@jorritkeijzer873]

@meandros1678 My brother in Christ, there was no need for a unilateral act by the EP. This was anything but peacemaking. The EP did something canonically forbidden. Despite what the MP did, the EP had no right to do what they did and to deny that is not good!

[@jorritkeijzer873]

This happened in 2019 before the Ukraine crisis

[@jorritkeijzer873]

@meandros1678 as a matter of fact this is such an issue that there are monasteries on Mt Athos that do not want to concelebrate with people who recognize the OCU and openly state that the EP made a big mistake