Ultimate Comparison | Type R v GR Corolla v Elantra N v Subaru S209 v Golf R

[@CarlosLago]

12/10 would talk about cars with these dudes again

[@misternordberg3675]

Carlos you are a LEGEND sir.

[@dammyo6010]

Carlos are you safe? Blink twice if you need an evac.

[@tmeisenmann3285]

M-N, M performance-N performance, M Town-N village. Hyundai Motor is copying the bmw M like a fake Chinese car in an insignificant way, using Albert Biermann as a shield.🤣🤣🤣😅😅😅

[@vasekvi]

Great seeing you on this channel!

[@papa_pt]

​@@tmeisenmann3285 well BMW gave up on driver involvement back in 2011 so what u gonna do 🤷

[@Coasterteen22]

The Subaru blowing its engine up 2 laps in. Absolutely classic!

[@cwx8]

That's what these cars do. I don't know why people buy these as track cars. They are fun winter cars on the street but that's it.

[@CapFlipGaming]

​@@cwx8 the Crosstrek is about the perfect daily driver. I'm not interested at all in their cars any longer sadly. I do need to drive a BRZ still though.

[@Coasterteen22]

​@@cwx8That's what Subarus do. My FK8 has 102k miles with at least 25 track days/autocross along the way. Runs like a top, doesn't even consume oil. You don't have to compromise like that with modern cars, and at these price points you shouldn't IMO.

[@Garabins1]

Modern Subaru engines are trash

[@dubsessed9790]

Subaru: TRADITION

[@obsidian....]

Thank you to the S209 owner for bringing out your car and subjecting it to this. We all really appreciate it

[@holidaeyy674]

Did they say s209 engine EXPLODE lol..

[@izzy9022]

If a S209 couldn't handle being tossed around the track and hooligan'd with, whats the point? I mean it is a Subaru, the same company that lets STIs blow up when you do... STI things when them like swing it in a dirt lot.

[@faheemabbas3965]

@@izzy9022 and that’s why Subaru will go out of business in the next 15 years.

[@josephmother2659]

@@faheemabbas3965 we can only hope

[@2K-Tan]

@@faheemabbas3965 LOL I highly doubt it. The 1% of the enthusiast Subaru market that buy STi's (which aren't even made anymore) Don't make up for the 99% of Subaru buyers that buy Crosstreks, Foresters, Ascent's etc which is what actually makes them the vast majority of their profit and return buyers. Normal people don't have issues with their normal Subaru engines blowing up most of the time. Yeah it happens, but it happens on plenty of other cars too and a lot of times it's from bad maintenance. I'm not defending Subaru's performance engines blowing up and I wish they'd do a better job too, but I just don't agree that they will go out of business from it lol. Just too many normal non car people that love Subaru and buy them because they're excellent in bad weather and great family cars that are very safe as well. That's what will keep them in business, Not the WRX or STi unfortunately.

[@sleepcult]

Love this. But it’s a shame Mazda isn’t building anything serious enough for a video like this.

[@jeffhobbs1729]

true like not even participating in this segment :(

[@NvSrAgE679]

Yes where is the speed 3 successor? Mazda, come back please!

[@anAmishGuy]

All the money is in multiple variants of midsize CUVs :(

[@tmeisenmann3285]

M-N, M performance-N performance, M Town-N village. Hyundai Motor is copying the bmw M like a fake Chinese car in an insignificant way, using Albert Biermann as a shield.🤣🤣🤣😅😅😅

[@bigslowbro]

You're just asking for the turbo owners to jump in here and explain that their torsion rear and economy brakes are perfectly adequate

[@AGR96]

Type R - 43.300 Elantra N - 33.000 Golf R - 44.600 GR Corolla C - 43.000 STI S209 - 86.000 Based on a quick google search. Without markups of course.

[@szotakandrei]

Get a Golf R 7.5 for under 30

[@bigguy4u989]

⁠@@szotakandreiyep. looks better, no touch buttons on steering wheel and faster than a mk8 with a $500 tune

[@senorgato70]

The Type-R is just an impressive machine. It shouldn't surprise anyone that the Elantra N did so well. The engineers at Hyundai used to work for the performance arms of the German brands. It shouldn't surprise anyone either that the Golf R doesn't perform better because VW AG wouldn't want it taking away from the RS3 or even the S3, which puts VW in a tough position in this segment. I am surprised that the GR was unliked here after seeing so many other reviews so positive about it.

[@sethhester1524]

The R whips the S3 in instrumented testing and on track. The R shares the good rear diff with the RS3. The S3 has to make do with the last generation unit.

[@commentmancommentman1658]

Because this channel is unbiased. The GR has all top end power and an awd that overheats.

[@rdraph1369]

I test drove the latest WRX, Integra Type S, and Golf R before settling on the Golf R. My disappointment in Honda/Acura not offering anything with SH-AWD and 6MT biased my choice to go with the Golf R, perhaps. That torque vectoring is noticeable, even in the real world when pulling out onto a busy highway....pushing the WRX and Golf R through a roundabout was much more enjoyable than the fwd Type S IMHO...and the "luxury car wanna-be" vibe of the Golf R with less tire/wind noise also helped it win the "I admit I will use it more as a daily driver than weekend track toy" shoot-out....but, yes, I owned an ELS equipped Acura for 8 years and the Golf R sound system is tinny by comparison, and I'm still irritated by the HVAC controls after two months....Also, I should point out, my last car was a 2018 Mustang GT w/performance pack, and the 2024 6MT in the Golf R feels a heckuva lot better than the MT82 in the Mustang...so, VW either improved the shifter feel since this video was made, or the MT82 is that bad....(and I had a 2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT before it with the usual Honda-awesome shifter). And lastly, I found a dealer who sold me the Golf R for MSRP, $5K UNDER the MSRP of an Integra Type S despite things like headup display, ventilated seats, and that torque vectoring AWD added to the VW....So, if anything, this is an appeal to Honda to offer torque vectoring AWD with 6MT and few more creature comforts on the Integra Type S, and I *might* show up with the checkbook if the MSRP stays sane...Or maybe an appeal to Subaru to figure out how to get 30-40 more hp out of their engine without destroying it's current fuel economy rating or reliability.

[@noahcunning9584]

The Elantra N wasn’t octane learned, in their footage under WOT it’s making 15 pounds, once the ECU learns the gas it can push 19 pounds, wonder if the lap times would have been different. When my Elantra was stock there was a noticeable difference when the car is octane learned vs not learned.

[@yukonstriker1703]

​@@rdraph1369 nice novel bro😂

[@BrodeyDoverosx]

Carlos is really good at this, he should consider doing it professionally

[@eloneatmyshorts]

As in having his own YT channel? He’s professional as one can get in automotive journalism.

[@papa_pt]

​@@eloneatmyshorts /wwwwoooooooossssshhhhhh 💨💨🍃

[@CarlosLago]

Nah dude's a hack

[@thehumanoid6543]

r/woosh

[@streetK4]

😂 good jokes

[@aprtur]

Mark + Jack - kudos for this. Seeing you guys have genuine fun throughout this video as enthusiasts and knowing the immense effort that went into it warrants a great amount of respect. Thank you for sticking with it, even when it's been frustrating...some truly fantastic videos you guys have been producing lately.

[@good-tn9sr]

nice $20 🙂

[@Gruntsworth]

@@good-tn9sr That'll buy like half a pound of beef! *drools*

[@good-tn9sr]

@@Gruntsworth 😀 beef

[@snggarageeng]

how did you donate ? i can not find any links ? can you please explain ?

[@good-tn9sr]

@@snggarageeng if ur on mobile it’s right next to the likes button > share > remix > thanks 🙂

[@MatthewGaither]

You guys rock and thank you for having Carlos and Brett along for this comparison. I genuinely enjoyed it!

[@nicholasfrisch244]

I was always in admiration of the old school Ignition episodes with Carlos. A different era. This was like watching two of my heroes work together. Amazing.

[@ZayTson]

Same, I always loved watching those! This collaboration was great, I always like seeing savagegeese's technical breakdown of the cars. I test drove a Type R before buying an Elantra N and the road feel and cornering on both are solid. I would have loved to have been able to test drive them more seriously before purchasing just for the experience though😁

[@tnutss]

I missed Carlos until cammisa took over and really brought it

[@kotarojujo2737]

@@tnutss both are great in their on ways in my opinion

[@mikefolkmann1564]

This is the best review channel on KZbin. I can't believe I get to watch this level of quality and authenticity for free. Watching Jack slide around the Golf R was priceless.

[@CapFlipGaming]

Yep! Topher is the only other one I watch religiously.

[@dammyo6010]

*Jack B58

[@benpenagonzales6014]

Agree. The go to channel for actually finding out about any car in detail.

[@ricksmith7659]

Adding an audio segment to car reviews is brilliant. Very few even touch on the sound systems and no one gives specs like you did. Bravo!!

[@soldieroftafari]

This was EXCELLENT. I was shocked to see frequency response and THD metrics as an audio engineer. THANK YOU for all your work guys! Great to see Carlos as well, he is an OG in this realm.

[@demwillams8898]

The comfort level of Jack in front of the camera at this point vs where he was when he started (at this channel, not his college career) is impressive.

[@dammyo6010]

Very true. He's made huge beefy strides.

[@hensh911]

Yeah I was thinking the exact same, even mentioned it to my gf. Similarly with Zack with The Smoking Tire, Jack has established his persona and really adds to the channel. And really slick production and top notch presentation of the information results in top quality content. Well done all!

[@Asiansxsymbol]

Jack is the Asian guy, right?

[@ravipeiris4388]

His college career and graduate career is impressive as that is what allows him the income to afford his toys as it does for me and my Maybach. You must be latino as they don't value education as a way into the middle class (or just a high school graduate) 😢, Ravi Peiris M.D.

[@X11CHASE]

@@ravipeiris4388 you’re trolling

[@DynamicAttraction]

Great video. A fun watch. Owner of a 2024 golf R here. All 5 of these cars track near identical times. But we live in the real world and 99% of ppl not tracking. Bought my golf R for best all rounder. I live in Canada so it’s awd is a big plus, plenty of room for groceries ect. Ppl judge the infotainment use after a day or hours of testing but once u live with it, it’s really easy to use especially since you can access a lot through steering wheel buttons. All great options though.

[@dw_moto]

I just got a 24 GTI 380 S 6spd last week. Had a veloster N previously and this time around was between the N, Jetta GLI, WRX and GTI. I was hesitant from everyone freaking out about the "unusable" infotainment, but like you said, you get used to it very quick. I think I'm going to enjoy the autocross season and occasional track event with this car. And like you said, 95% of the time I'm driving it as a daily to work, gym, trips, etc, and for that, I think the mk8 golf is perfect.

[@cdsprech]

Carlos' point about not rewarding manufacturers by selecting the tire for them prior to review is excellent. Never looked at the issue that way before, especially as it pertains to lightning lap.

[@VaunShiz]

Yea that's why I love how C&D let bmw fall flat on their faces at lightning lap since bmw doesn't give them fresh sets of tires to do the test

[@Talynen]

I have two criticisms of that approach, although I can respect it. 1. Companies can use expensive tires to compensate for shitty chassis tuning if they believe comparison results are important in selling that model. 2. A maximum performance tire may not be the best choice for a particular vehicle. Case in point the GR86 where you want to be able to use the available power to slide it around.

[@JacesOwnWorld]

I respect that philosophy behind it, but tires are something anyone can go out and buy this literal minute, for basically any car. For this reason, I think its important to test cars together using the same tire. Also, most manufacturers aren't providing sticky tires on their normal cars, because they really aren't made as track cars. The only cars in this group, that I would say is made to be on the track, is the CTR and STI. The others, though can be decent track toys, are more of daily driver vehicles, with sportiness thrown at them. With that in mind, manufacturers won't provide sticker tires from the factory because there is no need for the manufacturer to spend more money on the stickier tires, and provide them from the factory! They know the car is more of a daily street driven type of car. So, when doing these kinds of comparison tests, where a CTR, for example, that is way more track focused, is being compared to a Golf R, of course the CTR will come with stickier tires from the factory. That right there gives the CTR a major advantage over the Golf R, when racing on a track. So to make the playing field more even, using the same tires is a much better comparison. And guess what? We saw the results, and the Golf R, for example...a car I thought would be at least a second or two off the lap time of the CTR, is barely slower. Barely!! So them using the same tires really puts in perspective how good these cars really are, even without being track focused from the factory, like the CTR.

[@timevans9427]

@@Talynen these were not maximum performance tires...re-watch the video, the GR86 had no available power to slide anyways

[@Talynen]

@@timevans9427 There is no GR86 in this comparison test. I'm providing an example of a different car that has historically been intentionally optioned with a tire that has less grip so that you can enjoy driving it more on the street.

[@Trigg3rr]

Hour long video felt like 20 min. Such an enticing in-depth review. Thanks again guys for your work!

[@doctorrobert60]

Fantastic comparison! Love seeing all the cars being put through the paces. I have owned few STIs and currently 2023 Golf R. Mark, you were so right at the end that each car can mean different things to different people. At my age of 73 the Golf R 6 speed manual works for me as being fun to drive on the street. Not the fastest but more fun than the DSG and not as fast as the Civic Type R. So glad to see how Subaru stepped up and took care of the customer/viewer whose car's engine failed. This says loads about Subaru. Now if they would just bring out a new STI again! Thanks again for the very entertaining video!

[@apolloandratti7922]

Great content again guys. Loved to see Carlos here. One of my favorite reviewers. There is a sense of calmness, balance, and rationality that Carlos brings that is appreciated. All of you guys flowed quite well together.

[@jwazftw4200]

Agree. Il take calmness, thoughtfulness and considered opinion any day of the week, over the forced humour of other channels.

[@berindili7970]

I love how honest and simple your videos are. I never thought I would become such a big fan of this channel in a short period of time! Please keep doing what you guys do because you are an amazing team!

[@yeedle79]

The only other car content that comes close to bringing me as much joy to what you guys put out is when I'm on the shitter reading my old SCC mags. I think an annual "Shit Box Shootout" is much more appealing than the other yearly comparison tests the big name publications have been putting out.

[@brianschmitz4486]

Here here!! I have an old clutch of SCC mags I’ll keep forever. Imagine if Mike Kojima was present for this review too?!? Internet would have broken lol

[@yeedle79]

@@brianschmitz4486 I'd imagine if Mike was in any of SG videos it would be more comedy than anything since he talks at a speed and with a tone like he's drunk and half awake. I've seen Dave Coleman on a few episodes which is always awesome to see.

[@Static-MT]

I have *decades* of Car and Driver and Motor Trends. Wife's been trying to get me to throw them out for decades, as well. Never gonna let them go!

[@kuyre2239]

🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧public announcement for hyundai KIA genesis owner. 🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧 Jan. 31, 2023-Two of America's largest insurance providers, Progressive and State Farm, refuse to cover older Hyundai and Kia models. According to reports, the insurers say that some models of these two auto brands are too easy to steal in certain cities.9🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧

[@pawg206]

25:03

[@thejo6331]

Seriously 10/10 content. Excellent analysis, and I appreciate all the effort involved to make this happen. ❤

[@segarion9988]

Love this episode. This trio has some great chemistry reminiscent of another British trio. We need more of this.

[@Muffin1980]

I have an EN.. it has a thing called octane learning. I noticed the boost while you guys racing and it only went to 15psi. Octane learning would allow you to hit 18-20psi easily. Noticeable difference! Big time.

[@salwilk558]

I think when you launch it and use n grin shift it’s still like the same . I find it hard to get perefect conditions for 19 . I’m still only getting 18max , 16 average

[@MichaelBandy]

Great video! As a MK8 Golf R owner I agree on most points. On a track it definitely won't feel the most dialed in comparedly. On the street though, and on a canyon road you would be hard pressed to want better or more comparedly. The main problem with the R is the manual transmission has less torque and has a pretty poor shifter. Their "Save the Manuals" campaign should have included a better manual transmission and clutch. The DSG would have performed better, been faster, and more enjoyable to drive. As far as the infotainment goes with the haptic buttons, etc. It is certainly less ideal than a few dials and buttons would be. But drive it for more than a day or two and you quickly get used to it. It also contributes to a fairly clean aesthetic in the cabin that I quite enjoy. End of the day, all of these cars are amazing in their own way! Keep up the great work gents!

[@deltabot6550]

100% agree on everything except the trans. It’s there, I enjoy using it. The thing could be better but if I want to (and I am) I can change bushings and the shifter to improve it. Other than that, the car is a great daily, the infotainment is weird but usable once you get used to it, it’s comfortable and composed on any kind of road, and on a b-road I’m not sure there are many cars that will outrun it or be more fun. It stops getting more engaging once you push it past 8/10s, but I’m not gonna go that hard on a public street. If I want something for track work, I’m not going to punish my daily anyway so I’d get something else. Plus where I live AWD is a necessity so the Elantra and Civic were a no go

[@dorianstarnes8004]

As a DSG Golf R owner I agree, but my car has not been on track yet

[@Incomudro1963]

Golf R with DSG for the win in the real world.

[@MetalJesusRocks]

I have a MK8 GTI Autobahn and I completely agree w/ you on the infotainment system. Reviewers complain about it but honestly you get used to it pretty quick. I’ve driven the car pretty aggressively on winding country roads and never once accidentally bumped a button or setting or had any of the issues they worry about. It’s completely fine.

[@benpenagonzales6014]

What bugs me more is the Germans making you pay for all the extras. That’s why I went Hyundai. The size below (i20) but markedly less than half price a golf R in the UK.

[@bk138gt6]

For the cost to performance ratio, I think I'd go with the Elantra N

[@reyfuentes4572]

Also from the driving clips it looks like it wasn't octane learned...

[@chickenegg0138]

​@@reyfuentes4572 I was looking for a comment saying this. It definitely didn't seem to be. Guess we'd have to see the actual lapping footage to know for sure.

[@gixxr88]

And if you go thier amazing DCT, There'll be a decent performance and usability advantage

[@magicwaffl3z]

@@reyfuentes4572 sorry but what does octane learned mean?

[@MeltingRubberZ28]

​@Devon Saunders it's something Hyundai does to ensure good fuel before turning the boost up. Factory = 15 PSI, octane learned = 19 PSI. There's a process to make it happen with highway driving. I say that as someone that doesn't own one but has researched owning one.

[@imbeggar]

I agree with everything said here, which is exactly why I bought a Golf R. First, im over 25, second, I will never ever be on or near a track, nor do I care to be, third, I want a GT, a cruiser that I can goose around a corner now and then, but mostly is to get me and my others around town, which is what the Golf is designed for. I would consider the new acura integra but just cant get a civic.

[@arthurmroyce]

I did not think I would spend the time watching this whole video and the time just flew by. This was so good every minute was gold. This makes me happy I have a Veloster N which after three years has not had one single issue. I have installed stiffer engine bushings, a catch can and sub-frame bushings. At 63 I drive this like a spoiled teen. So much fun on the back roads I use to commute.!

[@smokesgtp]

I love that the Elantra rear seat still folds w the brace present. Nice touch.

[@williamrori1274]

The brace is also SUPER easy to remove. Like a minute tops in case you need to fit something big (hasn't limited me yet and I've fit full tents + track gear no problem).

[@godzilla7391]

Great video! I recently purchased a 2023 Elantra N, due to watching videos like this. I really loved the Type R, but it was out of my price range, so the Elantra N suited me more. It's a riot and I love the car. Keep up the good work

[@madmugen888]

What an absolutely amazing comparison video from true enthusiast who really enjoy driving. The level of these videos are outstanding and the best part is it looks like you guys had a blast doing it. Congratulations to the entire team, sponsors and guest on a very special video!

[@crishshah7051]

Love Carlos, grew up watching him and his opinion really shaped how I feel about cars. Awesome video and I would happily watch more like this again. Appreciate all the effort from this channel, thank you all!

[@nmode22]

This is an amazing video! I have the Elantra N and I love this car! It’s crazy the N just came out 4 years ago and it’s almost the same as the type R for 10k cheaper.

[@Ezero8]

10k cheaper is only assuming you can get a new CTR at MSRP and good luck with that. Realistically, it could be as high as 30k cheaper (40k vs. 70k)!

[@carlestler]

It’s even better than that for the Hyandai. The real marked up price Honda dealers are getting for the R is close to double what you will pay for an N model.

[@ctcdarkness]

The exact reason I went and bought a 23 EN. The Volkswagen dealer right beside the Hyundai dealer had a used 22 gti with 16k miles asking for 42k for it and I gladly passed and got the EN 3 days later.

[@austinwallick8744]

Been a big fan of Carlos’ work for over a decade now. Can’t even begin to explain how happy it made me to see him in this video. Hope you guys get to work together again!

[@Dowlphin]

It's funny when you have an engine failure in a video with a guy named Carlos. 😆

[@davidtranmedia5112]

N owner here! R owner here! Let me tell you i am so proud to own a N car.

[@cozy8397]

Hey how’s the gas mileage I’ve been looking at the Elantra n

[@dawn6658]

I have a '22 Elantra N MT, I would say it really depends on your driving style. I average around 27 to 31 MPG. If I really push it it'll be 26 MPG. If I just refuel and it I take a back road omw home and go like 45mph, I'll get 41MPG. @@cozy8397 I'm easily refueling every week.

[@basslegendreloaded]

@@cozy839723 if u not stepping on it. Pretty good. N Mode jugs fuel and its pretty addictive

[@_zigger_]

My great great grandpa also was a n-r owner

[@jacobjaramillo3192]

@@_zigger_oh shit. 😮

[@gadeane287]

An outstanding production that was informative and entertaining. The only thing missing was a reaction shot insert of the Subie owner when the S209 blew up.

[@dubba07]

He had to be expecting it. Unless he knows nothing about his car.

[@NvSrAgE679]

This is the video everyone wanted. Thank you for giving it to us.

[@Mattyew]

What an incredible episode...I think my favourite part is the sentiments put out by all drivers here: You can look at numbers like we all do, but they mean nothing compared to the driving experience. You can go fast and feel nothing. Or you can go slower and have the best time ever. Also, really enjoyed the conversations between you guys. Incredible work goes into these videos. Super grateful.

[@legatus9081]

The increased amount of jokes/bits in the videos is really enjoyable and, along with the quality of the content, it really sets this channel apart from others 👍

[@tocreatee3585]

do you want to hear a joke? H'UNDAI

[@benpenagonzales6014]

Mark, I am sincerely so happy for you to see the channel grow to this level. You really deserve it mate. Always loved the often British style humour. Watched a RCF vid from 7 years ago just now. 7 years!

[@dkent3853]

Love this so much! Carlos is a motoring journalist legend, unreal seeing you all together reviewing a handful of sports cars xo

[@rigelre909]

Best episode on the channel period!!! Doesn’t get any better than this

[@newbwheeler9777]

Top notch guys. Very well done. Especially since I’m a fortunate FL5 owner. Super cool that Subaru didn’t flake out on the motor replacement!

[@CubanRider]

Wow man, this was MEGA like the reviewers across the pond say, I'm glad I had time to watch this one. Very close lap times and I'm really glad they were running the same tire, rare to find on a car comparison.

[@DekiaryCarter]

I know this was an expensive video to make, but I absolutely love really long in-depth vids like this from time to time. Great cars with great enthusiasts. Keep it up. I stayed until the end. 😎

[@shakethedrummer2351]

One of the best youtube channels ever. Im not considering any of these cars, yet i will watch every minute of this channel

[@m176r3]

Finally a show that does it right. I don’t know how many times I’ve watched other shows do comparisons only to find out one car has summer tires and the other was running all seasons. I would love to see what this show could do with a budget that Top Gear gets. Pound for pound best auto show

[@xzst]

Insanely good video guys. I own a Hyundai i30N (global version of the Elantra N) and its an absolute blast, especially for the price. For me, its the best sounding 4-cyl hot hatch atm.

[@matthewwain9958]

The i30N is a hatch and not really that related to the Elantra N. The Elantra N is a culmination of all the good bits on the other N cars.

[@brandonchism6960]

you guys keep pushing the envelope forward on car content and in depth analysis on objective data. thanks for the hard work you all put into this project.

[@cousjcc]

Excellent video. I was considering a GR corolla as a dual duty daily driver and track day car. This hot hatch vid is exactly what I needed to realize that other options exist and may just be preferable, not least of all because of this channel's unbiased nature. Kudos to all involved!!

[@davidtranmedia5112]

I own a R and a KN which is the hatch version of the EN and let me tell you long time Toyota and Honda fan but I try to be as subjective as possible and try every car/brand out and I am in love with the Hyundai brand now. Especially the N cars. Give them a test drive it won't disappoint you

[@cousjcc]

@@davidtranmedia5112 Also considering a Rush SR. It isnt street legal so it means I need to keep my current daily driver (MB SLK55), but its a $45k car that performs at levels approaching the C8 Z06 on track for a fraction of the running costs, so it would save me $$ in the long run. Basically a 145hp motorcyle engine in a tiny 4 wheel single seat chassis. Test driving it in a few weeks at Harris Hill.

[@1224daws]

I’m a big GR corolla fan so I might be a bit bias. But I feel like this entire video just jerked off the type R, granted it is a great car. Idk.

[@nwbasson]

Glad to see Carlos moving up in the world and finally get to make it to SG 😊

[@rafalbardo889]

Excellent work guys. I enjoyed watching this as a Type r owner I felt especially validated 😝🤓. I truly appreciate you taking the time, energy and money to run this level of comparison video.

[@micahstory]

As an STi owner I was very sad to see the S209 not complete…but this video was great. As someone who has been watching your channel since you bought the FR-S it’s awesome to see the success you’ve attained, and the way you’ve not compromised in order to achieve it. Thanks for giving us real enthusiasts the unfiltered content we love🙏😊

[@varsington]

I have a tuned 2018 sti..the fact this one was "stock"...but was it?..its hard to believe in 2023 STOCK STI's are STILL blowing up?......

[@6lemans10]

Donut Media blew 7 Suburau Ej25 engines in their cheap vs expensive Subaru Wrxs.

[@ericellazar8532]

Sell your STI & buy an evo 😂

[@micahstory]

@@ericellazar8532 I never really considered an Evo because of the sub-par interior quality and the lack of Subie rumble. They are cool cars though.

[@micahstory]

@@6lemans10 this is true, but literally none of them had experience tuning STi’s and they did a bunch of stuff any knowledgeable Subaru tech knows not to do.

[@ThatJaxsonGuy]

I love this segment of cars. I own an MK8R DSG, and I will say I love it for it's everyday driving and family usability. It is definitely not as aggressive as some of the others, and I am not surprised it didn't win a lap battle. The MT for the R is an afterthought only for the North American market. It isn't even an option in Germany. Upgrading the rear sway bar alone made a HUGE difference in driving dynamics, but it is still very much a car that feel like it wants to sit comfortably and stable at 150 on the autobahn and not on a tight corner track. I will say I hope to take it on the TOD sometime for some more in-depth back road driving. Being in SoFlo, it's all straight wide roads, which doesn't allow one to explore the "fun" driving characteristics of the cars. I will say though, that the rear dif in the R is hilarious to drive around corners like a RWD car. It will throw the ass-end out relatively easy! Either way, if anyone is able to own any of these cars, they are winning!

[@MeltingRubberZ28]

It's funny man, I have a 35th anniversary GLI...in all respects...not that aggressive of a car. It is decently modified (FBO IS38) however even that car for me is tough to actually push on the street. I feel like you end up at speeds that would put you in jail or the morgue in short order. These cars that are even quicker start to get to unusable for most day to day uses.

[@Putukas1800]

I took my MK8R DSG to TOD few weeks ago and it was a blast. Car is stock besides APR Intake and RE71RS Tires (Amazing tires) and did amazingly well, likely my favorite car there so far. For a comparison, list of other vehicles I have taken there: 200HP FRS with RE71R, 996TT 700HP with PSS, M235i 420HP with RE71R, 2018 M3CS 450HP with PSS. What I wanted to say is - you'll love the R there!

[@Etaripamai47]

I would have bought a mk8 dsg r so many times over the last 2 years, but it's absolute horse crap that all the dealers within 1000 miles of nyc want over 10000 dollars in markups just to drive one away. It makes the cost of a lightly used mk 7.5 seem reasonable when they are going for 40k with under 50000 miles on them. Honestly, this channel talked me into keeping my jeep jku after sinking 10k to rebuild the front axle and fixing the rocker arm failure on the abysmal 3.6 penta, but... you know... 10k to keep my big box on the road, vs 10k in just markups, a quadrupling of my insurance price from 1000 a year to 4000, and all the payments on top of it? No thanks. Big jelly of your mk8r though. I hope you have a blastie in it.

[@NoxisYT]

I also own a MK8 DSG. The DSG is a different car compared to the manual, which was taken from the MK7.5. It's technically the oldest car there, but I'm not mad about those results. It's definitely my preferred car to drive to work or the store in.

[@チャーリーブラウン-w8l]

The fun thing about SoFlo is that the roads are actually clean and I don't have to worry about coming accross a massive pothole

[@PROJECTx86]

Last year I traded my FR-S for a EN based on Savagegeese reviews. The EN has been an absolute blast!

[@Kingwavve]

Hell yeah!

[@faheemabbas3965]

Just curious, what would you have to say about the H/K dealerships not honoring warranty and other horror stories related to H/K cars?

[@PROJECTx86]

@@faheemabbas3965 So far, the experience has been fine. The Hyundai dealer has not been any worse than the Honda and Toyota dealerships I'm used to.

[@danlee3939]

@@faheemabbas3965 At my local road course, I met a Veloster N owner who had his engine replaced under warranty even after money shifting on track. They only seem to void N car warranties if they've been heavily modified/tuned. Conversely, I was there when a GR86 owner blew his engine on the first lap of his first session (I had a GR86 at the time as well but witnessing this turned me off of the platform for track use). Toyota denied his warranty and he had to pay $10k out of pocket to get it fixed. Dealership experience wise, I've bought 13 new cars from Ford, Volkswagen, Mazda, Toyota, and now Hyundai. In the Mid-Atlantic at least, dealer franchise ownership dictates the experience much more than the brand itself. Most dealers are shit with only a few decent ones for each brand. Honda in particular seems to have no good dealerships in MD or northern VA.

[@Tastelikeb4c0n]

@@faheemabbas3965it depends on the dealership like most cases.

[@Druggid]

The production level is seriously unmatched. What an underrated channel.

[@egorshevel]

Much love to savagegeese, but this episode production value went up tremendously, compared to other episodes. This episode did not merely reflect the technical stats of the cars. It provided the clever entertainment value much needed during some of the previous episodes over the years of this channel's existence. Keep doing what you doing. Don't let anyone dissuade you from your current path..

[@bokiNYC]

Agree 100%! 👍

[@alexcoyg3281]

I absolutely can not believe how much they charge for that Corrolla at a dealership and that Subaru price is just GTFO

[@dubba07]

It probably includes the cost of 2-3 replacement motors under warranty.

[@funkyfurballs1078]

The Corolla is ugly!

[@hhaste]

It's a collectors edition with only 209 made.. and the resale value holds very well. STi's were 40k.. You can't use the price of the S209 as a comparison.

[@hhaste]

@@dubba07 hurrdurrr subawu engine bad... no. The owners being clueless are what causes Subaru engines to blow. That car never should have been on a track without having the stock oilling system replaced.

[@alexcoyg3281]

@@hhaste Just because something was made in a limited edition, does not mean it is worth spending, ofcourse it is my opinion. A lot of men love collecting things and they got no idea why.

[@NeilNTR]

First time watching this channel. It's really great that you don't just emphasize 0-60 speeds like most "R" type car comparisons on you tube does. Really enjoy hearing the whole experience.

[@eppyz]

I agree but 99.9% of these cars will be purchased by people that will never take then to a track. So real world testing is important too and in this case the Golf R takes the win in my book.

[@fred062000]

I'd also choose the FL5 as number 1 and attempted to buy one. The problem is, it's not a $45k car...it's a $60k car. I couldn't find one anywhere without at 15k+ markup. All the others can be found very close to MSRP, even a circuit GR, which I placed a deposit down for. It's a shame, but the FL5 just isn't worth it at that price.

[@StrongerThanEver84]

i got a red one for 7k over. i passed on a blue one for 6k over.

[@fred062000]

​@@StrongerThanEver84that's still too much over msrp.

[@4drturbo85]

I don't care what car it is. But paying OVER MSRP is DUMB.

[@thetorquedork5857]

This is the review I've been waiting a year and a half for. I purchased the Elantra N in December of 22 and absolutely love it! You guys were really spot on with all of your assessments. I was actually kind of shocked at how crummy the reviews were for the Corolla. Great job as always and absolutely fantastic quality video. Keep up the good work.

[@tocreatee3585]

Trusting Hyundai Is very Dangerous

[@4drturbo85]

I got mine in January of 23. Amazing car. No issues so far.

[@awolryan]

Great seeing Carlos on the channel. Have always like his style, knowledge, and reviews. One of your best videos and enthusiasts comparisons you’ve ever done, Mark! Great job! I hope to own a FL5 once the prices are more MSRP-ish!

[@williamrori1274]

Epic video. Realistically all four were within the margin of error with one notable difference... The Elantra N is $10K+ less money then every single car in this test.

[@OutLivex]

As well as the only FWD vehicle while the others are all AWD

[@JG-mg3if]

I like the N exhaust system. But I’m sorry, that car is ugly. Also the Type R is FWD

[@StrongerThanEver84]

@@JG-mg3if i agree. The N sounds amazing and mechanically its a bargain but its absolutely hideous looking. the worst looking car out of the bunch in my opinion

[@rcurt9984]

And ugly

[@joshsimon286]

Incredible video!!!! My deepest gratitude to @savagegeese for consistently creating exceptional content. The level of detail and dedication showcased in this comparison is truly awe-inspiring. Personally, I am deeply moved and inspired by this video in ways I struggle to put into words. The four of you truly get the emotional and technical expression of driving, and I genuinely wish there were more individuals like you who share the same vision. In a world where the transition to emotionless electric vehicles seems inevitable, it's refreshing to see creators like you who bring life and soul to the automotive industry. May there be a glimmer of hope at the end of the tunnel, and please continue your incredible work!

[@diegomartinez-dz5jg]

This is the pinnacle of savagegeese. Beautiful beautiful satire. With the most technical talk and testing ever seen in a KZbin video. Keep up the good work guys.

[@GingkoMister]

I feel bad for watching such good content for free, thank you so much for making this comparison video! You guys are my favourite car reviewers on KZbin!

[@snggarageeng]

how did you donate ? can ytou please explain ? i want to send some money to this channel ?

[@GingkoMister]

@@snggarageeng There is a "Thanks" tag

[@webracun6797]

​@@snggarageeng below video title there is thanks button

[@WaveManMike]

5:13 there’s really no problem with the Golf R, GTI, or GLI steering wheel at all. Those touch buttons are nearly IMPOSSIBLE to tap accidentally unless you’re just from the older generation who isn’t use to technology. I’ve had my car for about a year and have not even once pressed them without the intention of doing so. I’m a VW Car salesman and I’ve never actually heard anyone complain about them who actually owns the car. Only reviewers complain based on what other reviewers say 😂

[@mikegrande2560]

This video right here helped me conclude that I want an Elantra N. Thank you for another good video!!! 👍👍

[@RavisherDevil]

Probably the best and most comprehensive video these guys have ever made! But call me crazy did they not miss the audio scores for the Subaru?

[@moises9760]

subaru ranked 4th, but yes

[@greatheightsu]

A video actually worth the hour run time. All killer no filler. Blessed when head to head comparisons actually happen like this, thanks boys.

[@B17714]

The giggling during the Golf R driving portion was everything I love about this channel. Serious automotive content but still just a group of guys having fun.

[@bananaoligarchy8754]

The lap time similarity between the cars (other than the STi, lol) is amazing.

[@y.b.-]

Man, if you guys keep ramping up the quality of your videos I would not be surprised at all if we loose you to the likes of Hollywood. I aint kidding, dropping masterpiece after masterpiece, KUDOS

[@Jordieuro]

To be honest, I have had a golf 8 R for over month and a half now, and the first few days couldn’t get me head around the minimalistic buttonless interior, but!, everything is there! Once you get to know it and add direct accesses to things like launch control it makes the difference, the wheel controls are fantastic and very responsive, and having feedback from them makes it better… I have seen this type of bad reviews from many many different people, but, you have to understand, when you buy it and spend a few hours inside the cockpit, is absolutely fantastic ☺️

[@i.d.6492]

Lmao cope harder losing to EN that cost $20K less. Especially if it was Dct you would got smoked even worse 😂

[@BryceCzirr-jz7ju]

​@@i.d.6492What? The MK8 R is a good amount faster than the N.

[@i.d.6492]

@@BryceCzirr-jz7ju no it's not. Go watch throttle house or savegegesse they did lap times with professional drivers doing laps on all these cars, EN beat golf R and it was manual. It came like 2 or less seconds behind type R and like 5 milliseconds behind GR corolla. And EN was manual if it was DCT with NGS on it would have beat GR corolla too. Cope harder tho. Only thing Golf R got is AWD and if you think that justify $50K price tag over EN $35K than you're a 🤡😂

[@WANDER1NG-MIND]

​@i.d.6492 dude just admit that you're dirt poor and will never set a finger on the Golf R. Enjoy driving your grandmother's hand me down 1998 civic and leave us German car drivers alone

[@adamg6849]

@@i.d.6492maybe it’s not about beating someone in a drag race but wanting to enjoy a great daily driver. You’re a bit harsh in your opinion. The Golf R is basically an Audi with a discount. None of the other cars can come close to VW interior. Sorry. All the others are cheap crap economy plastic interiors. Truth.

[@CU08]

How does this channel not have more subscribers? Incredible content as always.

[@jerrys7261]

You mean never ceases to amaze haha… but I’m sure people get what you meant to say

[@JohnFromAccounting]

It's growing.

[@Philbyyyy]

They are a bit too cynical and not "fun" enough. Most of their reviews are geared towards track. More day to day driving would be better.

[@tylerrynberg]

@@Philbyyyy ??? The vast percentage of their videos ARE day to day driving, what are you talking about?

[@Philbyyyy]

@@tylerrynberg an example is this video. Too many videos are on track. Compare to like Throttle House and The Straight Pipes who do more Street reviews. Their channels are much bigger as they are more relatable. Most people don't track their daily.

[@nicholasfrisch244]

One of the best automotive videos of the year.

[@scotthilly5653]

Jack & Mark - speechless. Your work is incredible and I can’t emphasize enough how much I appreciate your dedication to these videos. Fantastic watch.

[@GunKata]

I could easily watch a 1hr loop of just Jack swaying back and forth in the backseat : 10/10 entertainment.

[@ZackNakazora1]

I was dying as he was just laughing and trying to muffle it when the others where talking. Dude is on top of the world to be getting paid bananas to do this! 😅😂😂 Love you long time Jack! Keep up the excellent work!

[@Tsand4]

Wow see with the Elantra N on the same tire as civic type r it is basically identical in times on track. When car and driver tested the too type r was on cup 2s and Elantra n ps4s and civic was like 7 seconds quicker……..just goes to show tires are everything

[@PumpkinCobra]

A more controlled environment here helped produce more accurate results. Same tires, same driver, same weather conditions

[@Tsand4]

That helped some but the being on same tire is the real difference. If the ELANTRA was on cup twos and the civic was on PS4 S during lightning lap the ELANTRA would’ve been quite a bit quicker then type r

[@oraclemiata845]

If the Kona N was on cup 2’s tho….

[@Tsand4]

@@oraclemiata845 or the Elantra N DCT….

[@spartansae]

EN wasnt octane learned, i honestly think it couldve gotten a better time if it was hitting 19-20 psi boost instead of 15. food for thought i guess

[@mustangGT375]

I really wanted to purchase a type R but every dealer wanted stupid markups, so I test drove an EN and never looked back. It’s an awesome car in every aspect. I honestly hate the side profile, but I get over quickly when I drive it. Nice video!!

[@fffwe3876]

kiaboi🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@LawrenceTimme]

I love how Mark is paying people to say his honda is the best thing since sliced bread. 😂😂

[@maweitao]

I'm hoping that shortcomings like the interior will lead to the Corolla GR depreciating in coming years. A lot of the people getting them now are doing so on impulse and they'll inevitably want something more upmarket and that feels "faster". Having already driven the Corolla Hatchback for several years now, the shortcomings don't bother me. I know it's wishful thinking, but I hope I can pick one up at a reasonable price in a few years.

[@scrambie]

Toyota isn't shipping enough of them for the value of used GR Corollas to drop by much, if anything.

[@papa_pt]

I think base models without the LSDs could come down in a few years

[@lukewest708]

​@A you're probably right but the non lsd model isn't the one that enthusiasts are going to want unless they just want a daily hatch with decent power and there are better options if that's all you want. I think these will depreciate like evo xs and those are still ~30k for a decent one and they had a much lower msrp when new

[@SoFarFromCrust]

Honestly I think the GR is getting knocked on the interior too hard. It's fine. You don't need or want a bunch of fancy garbage in a car like that. It can rally, like the evos and stis of old. It'd be pointless to put nicer quality materials in a car that is designed to beat on. As is, it's not cheap feeling either. It's very German feeling on the interior. Orderly, and purposeful.

[@papa_pt]

@@SoFarFromCrust part of the German feeling isn't just the sensibility (not anymore anyway) but the quality is of a certain level. They're saying even compared to cars in the same class, the Corolla feels cheap. I'm sure 99% of potential buyers would sacrifice 10-30lbs for an interior quality more like civic or golf Then again depends if it's a track tat duty car or a daily. If daily then no question

[@SuperSmoovy]

I love my GR corolla. It's so fun to drive. What I love about all these cars is that the manufacturers are making them available to us. #icons

[@mulletsquirrel]

Lovely comparison. I'm leaning toward the Elantra N for bang for the buck, but not sure if I could get rid of my C5Z.

[@fusrodahing1993]

I have the EN DCT. It has been amazing so far. The exhaust is probably my favorite thing about it, but it is damn quick and fun around corners. I don’t think you’ll regret it!

[@MeltingRubberZ28]

I'll buy your C5Z

[@benpenagonzales6014]

I have the little i20N. All the extras like heated steering wheel and wireless charging included. And the 5 year warranty includes non competitive track use! At least in the uk

[@TyperRspec789]

I've been a car lover all my life and dreamed about being a car reviewer. Savagegeese is what I would've envisioned with its beautiful mix of humor, engineering focus, driving experience focus, and everything else. Thank you so much for producing such a great piece that can be appreciated on so many levels.

[@muhammadmore]

I'm into motorbikes but whenever I try to find reviews on bikes they never seem that good. You guys have set the bar so high for me you've made it hard for me to watch reviews of anything else👌

[@XBLTacmaster]

Thanks for the great work guys. Y’all are def running the most informative channel love the detail you guys get into

[@vasekvi]

You guys just keep getting better and better. Very enjoyable video. Entertaining and informative. Keep up the incredible work!

[@Lorenzo-fw3gx]

Thanks for running the same tires on all of these. I think that was a really good move to get a equal baseline for all the cars. Awesome video. Well done guys. Thanks for the content. Glad to see the Elantra N stood up with Civic since the Type R is such a well done vehicle.

[@KIN350O]

Great video guys and really comprehensive. I particularly like how you get the cars up on the hoist with associated commentary. I was very surprised that the lap times for the top 3 were basically identical. This, along with your comments, cements the Elantra as the best bang for your buck out of the lot. Interesting that you commented that the Elantra is not covered for track day usage - it is down under whilst the others are 'manufacturer's discretion'.

[@SonikDethmonkey]

I’m not sure why they called that out because as far as I know the only brands that cover track use are Porsche (for their GT cars) and Chevy for the 1LE cars. I’ve had issue with Toyota in the past honoring an engine failure from track use. Most brands struggle with this, not just Hyundai.

[@michaelwilburn1001]

You know this was extremely impressive for the Elantra N, considering it was the lowest HP car here and the cheapest by far. Only being 0.1 seconds behind the Civic and 0.02 second behind the GR. Really would have liked to have seen how the automatic compared to the others considering the price difference.

[@P3drogarcia1]

It would have won 100%

[@joec.5009]

it's the most fun real world car too.

[@JG-mg3if]

Automatic 🤢

[@ZackNakazora1]

​@@P3drogarcia1 I'm a manual lover. But yup you are right. That dct shifts so well and the track sense is so finite. It woulda won. On these tires, with this driver it seems

[@Raj1290r]

Maybe gotten have better with dct and sport 4s

[@CruiseControl1]

My first car was a 79 280zx, 26 years later my last two cars were a Neptune Blue GR86 and most recently a 1999 Miata. My three favorite cars I have driven are: 1. 981 Cayman GTS (SpeedVegas 7 hot laps) 2. 2019 Honda Civic Type R (driven on curvy Colorado mtn roads) 3. 1999 Mazda Miata ( everyday driver and used as a toy)

[@Fruitay425]

Damn, you guys. I just found out about SG 5 months ago when I was looking for a car. And becasue of your videos, I bought an Elantra N. And after this video, Im still very happy with my choice. This video, again, was A LOT of work and im so appreciative and impressed. I cant believe how close all the lap times were! I thought years ago, when reading big group comparisons, how it would be interesting if all cars ran the same tire. You are the first ive seen do that 👏 Even though honestly, for some reason today, I felt like I didn't really want that, lol. I think im proud of the EN development with the 4S (+) But who cares what I think! Or what anybody thinks who wants to critisize, when you gave us the best free video content on KZbin. I love how you guys get under the cars and talk about the engineering. Nobody else ever gets under the car and shows the chassis, suspension and drive train. You guys stand out while staying humble. You almost feel like friends of mine, rather than someone who's trying to be awesome in front of people. And thats what makes you actually awesome 👌

[@clubracer6]

What did you mean by, “final projects” Mark? Awesome work on this. So top shelf. Premium some would say. All should say thank you!

[@colin-nekritz]

This. And I hate using "this," but this, what do you mean by "final" here Mark?

[@Hunedpcl7]

This gotta be one of the best videos I've ever seen. I appreciate you guys a lot. You get it.

[@MV-qm9ne]

The reviewers mention their dislike for the Golf R stick shift. So being that I own a Golf R and don't find problems with the shifter or the feel of the shift knob, I stopped at the local Honda dealership to try out the Type R. I found little to no difference between the two shifters but that the Type R knob was made for small hands and it was vague and difficult to engage with the transmission, gear to gear. What is most different between the two cars is the amount of force needed to push the clutch pedal down. The Honda needs a little pressure while the Golf R needs a bit more. Aside from that, I find the Golf R criticism unwarranted. Lastly, of all the cars tested on the track, the Golf R was the only car with three passengers in it, which speaks volumes for its functionality. What was concerning to me is that the clown in the backseat sliding around, while the driver is tearing around corners and the passenger next to him telling the audience that the Golf R is faster there than all the rest. Insurance liability anyone?

[@adamrozman]

If you look again he has a seatbelt on

[@MV-qm9ne]

You're correct.@@adamrozman

[@yfryt69]

Great idea with same model of tyres used - this is the approach we need with this kind of tests!

[@Kromer0]

I got it guys: Savagegeese should be the new Car and Driver video producer. They make the videos the same way they always did with Car and Driver budgets. Full creativity. Win win for everyone. Examples of reviewers that did this, starting KZbin and still here but with support from a large company, and returned for the move tenfold: Chris H and Jason C.

[@qwerty69600]

Props on the video man. You guys really appeal to petrol heads and I thoroughly enjoy listening to you. You passionately moan about or praise cars in the same way proper enthusiasts do. Do more of these.

[@louisc76]

Thanks as always for the great content. I like hot hatches, AKA the cars we can actually afford… at least before the dealers attempt to screw us.

[@benpenagonzales6014]

The original gti was born in a time of high inflation and energy issues. I think they’re the perfect answer for today.

[@snggarageeng]

how did you donate ? Can you please help me to donate to this cahnnel ?

[@benpenagonzales6014]

@@snggarageeng I don’t know about donating but I do patreon. Set up an account. Should be a link in description and pay a few bucks a month

[@louisc76]

@@snggarageeng there’s a give thanks button below the description. I was a patron for a long time but can’t do the monthly thing anymore. But with this I’ll give these guys some $$ when I can swing it.