The Transformation Toriyama NEVER Wanted

[@CAGExplains]

As expected this video has created some healthy debate in the comments. For all those who disagree with my assertion I have one question: Why is the Jiren Vegeta describes in DBS Super Hero so wildly different to the Jiren we say in the anime and manga version of T.O.P?

[@gokulrenjith2738]

Inconsistent writing. That entire scene is inconsistent as it feels like Goku and Vegeta switched personalities, not to mention Goku not knowing what meditation is.

[@jasonpp8597]

atleast toriyama hinted at mui in dbs broly when goku was going from super saiyan god to super saiyan blue

[@annanmunir6779]

Underrated channel ❤

[@christiancinnabars1402]

Heavenly Potato That was the animators putting a nod in, not Toriyama. Toriyama worked on the script + concepts, not the animation proper.

[@potato_stealer15]

AMUGUS

[@yeahman6907]

Akira Toriyama is making Goku's head wound become a crucial plot point with how much he keeps forgetting shit he's done in previous arcs.

[@SheHatesRxch]

Wait are you talking about when he fell on his head as a kid

[@yeahman6907]

@@SheHatesRxch yes

[@SheHatesRxch]

@@yeahman6907 that’s actually kinda cool when did he mention that?

[@davizi6146]

​@@SheHatesRxch It was a joke

[@panamajack5972]

Makes sense lmao. CTE

[@gokulrenjith2738]

Considering that Goku is entirely focused on mastering and developing Ultra Instinct since Moro arc and that is the main focus of his character since then, I would say it is now an integral part of DBS story. Toyotoro also said that the Ultimate goal is for Goku to use Ultra instinct in his base without any flaws.

[@CAGExplains]

I agree that Goku eventually attaining Ultra Instinct is a part of the DBS story, but I don't think Toriyama intended it to be as soon as the TOP. It's why after an entire arc of perfecting his control of MUI and "Fighting like a God" with no issue in the Moro arc, in the Granolah arc a time limit and Goku's emotions are now standing in the way of his use of MUI out of nowhere and now this other form of UI Omen is being called "True UI" even though the silver haired form was called "True UI" in the Moro arc and Whis stated it was the version with better stamina problems rather than Omen. I go more into this retcon in my "Why The Granolah Arc Was A Narrative Disaster…" video from 13:34 - 16:33 I think Toyotarou is lessening Goku's mastery of UI more in like with Toriyama's vision. As far as I can see in Super Hero Goku is still far from attaining Ultra Instinct, Toriyama wrote him as an absolute martial arts moron in that movie meanwhile Jiren was the example of a mortal who has come the closest to mastering UI.

[@gokulrenjith2738]

​​​​@@CAGExplains Goku feels completly out of Character in Superhero movie. I mean how does he not know what meditation is ? Also, even if Toriyama did not intend it, there is no going back now as Goku can currently use UI at will. Also I don't think True Ultra instinct is Goku lessening the mastery of ultra instinct. True Ultra instinct seems to be the natural evolution to Toyotoro's stated goal of Goku using UI completly in base.

[@antoniolee2109]

​@Gokul Renjith No in the dub part of the movie goku though vegeta was just sitting down for no reason

[@gokulrenjith2738]

@@antoniolee2109 In the Sub it was like Goku having no clue about meditation. It was beyond stupid. Toyotoro seems to write Goku better than Toriyama and Toei.

[@kamikazehound3243]

​@@gokulrenjith2738 to be fair Toriyama wanted to make Gohan the lead character but Toei said thats a bad idea and didnt allow it, its the reason Goku basically said in the Buu Saga he doesnt want to defeat Buu because its not his world anymore, he is just a dead man and its time that a new generation take over (also showing that Goku could have beat fat buu but chose to say its not his problem). Ultimate Gohan was supposed to be the one to end Buu. Hell supposedly the only reason DBZ went beyond the Namek arc is Toei forcing Toriyama. Toriyama could likely just be tired of Goku and not care.

[@Pogbirb]

That means in toriyama's vision, Vegeta is actually written to be more suited for ultra instinct, as in super hero Vegeta was training to be tranquil and calm like how he observed Jiren's fight style, while Goku was apparently just brute forcing things without thinking that much according to the dialogue.

[@IIIISai]

You're right, Omen vegeta would look nice also

[@nathanielus5296]

That makes Ultra Ego feel really out of place...

[@dususbakahyahskahwbwm9113]

@@nathanielus5296 I was thinking the same thing, however in the Granolah arc, Vegeta's UE seems very mishandled (i'm talking in-story by Vegeta himself), even Gas states how dumb it that the form has to take damage in order to benefit further. Perhaps this could allude to Vegeta trying to alter how he uses the form? Goku also went an opposite route from regular UI when he went back to Omen, to which even Vegeta scoffs at how UI Omen Goku's fight against Gas was so chaotic. Maybe the plan is Goku and Vegeta will be switching routes in regards to technique? Who knows.

[@maymay5600]

if you know partial of journey to the west you'll understand why does the shit he does

[@YusufZetro]

damn, but goku in z before was perfect for ultra instict, hes calm and skilled

[@Eman02kG]

I also remember the line (I think it was Resurrection F) where Whis states that if Goku and Vegeta fight together there’s nothing that could stop them. This would make sense according to Toriyama canon

[@kingkurok3149]

I think that was Toriyama original intention with the Tournament of power, teamwork vs raw power

[@kleinkaufman8940]

He also asserted since that time that Goku and Vegeta needed to find a way to fight with their bodies reacting instinctively.

[@dususbakahyahskahwbwm9113]

@@kingkurok3149 However, in the Broly film, Whis states the line "it seems you two actually can work together" as if it was their first time working together from Whis' perspective (at least that's my interpretation). So who knows at this point.

[@kingkurok3149]

@@dususbakahyahskahwbwm9113 that just proves how much of the tournament of power was made up by Toei, cause that statement from Whis basically implies they did work together at all during Toriyama's version of that arc which makes sense cause in his version of Super Jiren wasn't supposed to be ridiculously strong, if anything he was supposed to be the mortal who was closest to attaining Ultra Instinct which would have been the thing that gave him his edge instead of just raw power

[@kingkurok3149]

@GreatSaiyaman123 well yeah there's a limit to what teamwork alone can achieve

[@MELTMYEYEZSEEURFUTURE]

Honestly I wished the new forms for sayians stopped after SSGSS, so that Dragon Ball would shift from being a show about power vs power and become more about antagonists with powerful techniques that the heroes must overcome.

[@CAGExplains]

It's funny because it looks like Blue becoming the standard was Toriyama's intention, he had no powered up versions of Blue (no kaio-ken or evolved or mastered), fused Zamasu could still be over powered by Blue Goku and Vegeta, Gogeta Blue whooped Broly and Jiren wasn't intended to be that much stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta as detailed in Super Hero.

[@MELTMYEYEZSEEURFUTURE]

@@CAGExplains Exactly man, and it should have, they’re clearly running out of form colors at this point so making more forms would be just writing themselves into a corner

[@Kai758z]

I wish it stopped at God (Red hair)

[@mightymal]

Well ultra instinct is a technique and ultra ego is aswell the only new forms is what was giving to broly , gohan and piccolo

[@Kai758z]

@@mightymal Ultra instinct is a technique and transformation. Ultra Ego is definitely a transformation.

[@magnificentmajunior]

Insightful, straight to the point, amazing editing, this is some absolutely top tier content.

[@CAGExplains]

Appreciate that bro! I try to respect my viewer's time and get straight to why they clicked on the video 🔥

[@KingMonk01]

Read this comment in piccolos voice for some reason

[@CAGExplains]

@@KingMonk01 I just did now, it fits perfectly😂😂

[@Ms.FortuneTeller]

​@@CAGExplains You deserve the world, man. Your content is very good.

[@Shmurdayahself]

Rather I agree or disagree great video keep it up

[@SiIIyBiIIy44]

One of my favorite parts about Jiren and Goku's fight is that even though Goku got a new, super powerful form, and even unlocked a new version of it during their fight, he *_STILL_* lost.

[@RPGNoZero]

Except SSJ3, SSG, and SSB all jobbed on their first appearance. That's hardly new at this point.

[@SiIIyBiIIy44]

@@RPGNoZero well, ssj3 they still won with Vegito, Ssg he fought a god, and ssb they teamed up and won

[@SiIIyBiIIy44]

@@RPGNoZero also, key word, "usually"

[@echo7105]

@@SiIIyBiIIy44 Vegito was WAYYY after SSJ3 was introduced, so it still lost. SSG still lost to Beerus. SSB lost to Frieza. Even the grade forms had an underwhelming impact.

[@SiIIyBiIIy44]

@@echo7105 cool

[@Disvertation]

Incredibly underrated. Love this kind of editing

[@CAGExplains]

Appreciate that! By engaging with the video you're helping me grow just a bit more 🔥

[@veryepoc6949]

​@@CAGExplains amazing vid bro

[@RedRhythm_1]

​@@CAGExplains Good video man

[@solidsolo9258]

I enjoy DBS, but the production of its continuity and canon is a mess. This video explains it perfectly.

[@CAGExplains]

A huge mess, each version of its continuity is missing parts of the story, especially since the anime has been gone for 5 years now.

[@firionkaiser8291]

​​@@CAGExplains I mean not the manga really. Even the movies got some form of an adaption in the manga. BoG: Received an arc. RoF: Got a three chapter promotional manga, though it didn't cover the entire movie. DBS Broly: Received a brief description after ToP, Some art of the events and a special extra chapter where Goku tells Merus about the events of Broly movie and we even see a panel where we see that Perfected Gogeta Blue was needed to beat him. Then we also have DB Minus which covered most of the pre dragonball stuff already. DBSSH: Got a prequel arc, and is currently receiving a direct manga adaption with some expanded moments or just some lore changes in general to fit the continuity of the manga. This will hopefully pave the way for the Black Frieza arc next unless EoZ is really intended to be next then Black Frieza. Yes the manga doesn't cover everything but most of it is all there, every arc at the very least still has some representation. The only real thing the DBS manga is really missing is the events of "Yo Son Goku and Friends Return." Which happens after the Kid Buu timeskip to BoG but before the actual events of BoG. However as I recall that also has a manga adaption already too.

[@nouralghoul8930]

This perfectly answers why the power scaling is so inconsistent across all arcs and adaptations. Amazing work

[@FagnerLSantos]

That was an interesting insight that I never stopped to do... Akira Toriyama himself stated recentely that Super was a casual continuation of his original manga, so it feels natural that he isn't bothering too much anymore outside of what he does for the movies. Dragon Ball became a colaborative franchise, similar to Marvel and DC, even the movie scripts "totally made by Toriyama" have some interference of others, like Akio Iyoku's idea of making Gohan share the main role with Piccolo in Super Hero, since Iyoku's himself said that Toriyama's original idea was meant to have only Piccolo as the protagonist. With all this in mind, I as a fan have the feeling that nothing in Super is actually trully canon. The only true canon is just original manga and the rest is just a "casual continuation" of it.

[@leultrainstinct406]

alright relax buddy lmao. the entirety of super is canon. the anime and manga are just two different versions of that canon. Toriyama made huge contributions to both. the editors and directors of those contributions just added their own ideas to it that tori approved of exactly like they did in the original dragon ball manga and anime. Whereas in a series like gt where he has no contribution at all and it’s completely non canon for several obvious reasons. it’s really as simple as that.

[@FagnerLSantos]

@@leultrainstinct406 What I said is a statement said by Toriyama himself in the launch interview of Super Hero, while explaining about how people already know the characters of the movie, he called Super a casual continuation of his original manga. If we take this in account, the true canon is just his original Dragon Ball manga, with Super being an optional extra story for it. Since it is supposedly supervised by Toriyama himself, I don't see the problem if any fan take Super as canon. The thing is that I don't take this canon thing among the Dragon Ball fandom too serious anymore after what Toriyama said in that interview.

[@Lockfly]

​@@leultrainstinct406no, only the original Dragon ball manga run is canon (Z wasn't a separate run it's part of original dragon ball just the English manga version and the anime separated them) anyway dragon ball ended a long time ago these are just casual continuations based on source material

[@90abonnessansvideosdu42]

@@leultrainstinct406 Yes but we don't have to watch/ read super to read the end of the manga and technically the manga super is more canon because it's canon continuity is the manga

[@TipoIrritable]

The thing is, that Super does have an infinitely amount of better writing than both the anime and the movies. So, what’s your point?

[@theultimatetrashman887]

it still sucks that goku was made straight up dumb tho, he could still remain a martial arts master while not knowing how to attain just this one form (considering it takes other means of thinking to attain it) and him talking with his serious voice like goku black would be amazing

[@EmeralBookwise]

Hmm... this would also mean that Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan aren't anywhere near as strong as certain fans think they are. Supposedly Toriyam has stated Beast Gohan is stronger than Goku and Vegeta,, but if Ultra Instinct/Ego don't exist in his own vision of events, Toriyame would only be comparing Gohan to SSB.

[@maalikserebryakov]

there is zero in universe logic to beast gohan’s asspull transformation. super saiyan, 2, 3, 4, God, Blue have some logic to them. ultra instinct as a Godly state has some logic tonit too. Beast gohan came out of literal nowhere. fuuk this

[@AdellRedwinters]

The most hilarious thing about toriyama’s design for ultra instinct is it’s *literally* a recolor of his super Saiyan god design. Like it’s the same drawing with white hair instead of red. It’s so hilariously phoned in and it ended up being this huge thing!

[@vixenxia2475]

honestly though, because of that I do wonder what I'd be like if he slimmed down like ssg too. Since to me ssg's slimming looks more like Goku got younger which is like in a way immortality appearance. Just possibly imagine the youthful ssg like Goku, but with the always calm look and the silver hair. He'd look really majestic and ominous tbh. But thats just my opinion.

[@BC21beats]

Naw I'm tired of these noodle arm saiyans ​@@vixenxia2475

[@StriderStryker]

UI Goku: So this form is non-canon anymore? That’s sad. Hyper Sonic: _First time?_

[@WelcomeToTiltedTowers]

This actually hurts ☠️

[@SaturnineXTS]

I think we need to factor in Toriyama's notorious forgetfulness too. But I wouldn't say that just because Toriyama didn't think of something initially, but later was convinced to and did, that makes it non-canon. Keep in mind that Toriyama was happy with Cell's first form, and it was only his editor that told him he looks like shit, so Toriyama had to design two transformations for him. Hell, Toriyama was happy with just the Androids as a threat in the first place -and again, it was his editor that asked him to develop someone more threatening and sinister. So even the manga isn't a result of nothing but Toriyama's intent - and yet we accept it as canon.

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

Toriyama was going to just make 19 and 20 the main villains of the arc, even saying 19 and 20 killed Gero, the editor took issue so he switched to 17 and 18. Again, editor took issue, made Cell. You could see that as executive meddling, but I think it made the arc better, especially since it gave Gohan a satisfying conclusion to his story arc at the time.

[@leultrainstinct406]

exactly lmao. the exact same thing that’s happening in the anime and manga versions of dbs happened in the original db manga and anime. toriyama contributed to both but the editors and directors added their own ideas that he approved of. the only main difference is it’s less noticeable in the original because the manga was hundreds of chapters ahead of the anime.

[@paperboy1116]

Dude forgot about super saiyan 2 with Battle of Gods. That should be a red flag

[@SaturnineXTS]

@@leultrainstinct406 oh it definitely wasn't that far ahead and it even caught up multiple times, that's where the filler arcs came from. And the padding too

[@didles123]

People make up lots of shit about "editor did this and that". If it's all true, then I wish the editor was in charge of super.

[@GameMasterDuelist]

the editing style and flow of the video felt perfectly paced some videos don't exactly nail it but this video was great. and the energy you bring to the video was informative but fun to watch. I had never seen this channel before but glad I got this in my recommended. how you dont have over 1k subs for how much effort you put in is surprising but hopefully you hit that soon!

[@GeteMachine]

The scaling in Super might have made more sense if Toei and Toyotaro did just follow Toriyama's script a bit more, because there wouldn't be a SSB Kaioken, SSBE and all that extra stuff. SSB mastered in the manga alone would have worked, and people wouldnt complain about how unimportant SSB was if Super just stuck to it more before UI, which was a technique. So much of Super might have been different. Though SSB Vegito is the only change I do thik was a good move.

[@CAGExplains]

Yeah looking at Toriyama's drafts it's clear that Blue was supposed to be the pinnacle of Saiyan power for a while, that's only in display in DBS Broly where Goku's transformation into Blue is portrayed as this Godly ascension. Toei couldn't help but bloat power levels with Blue Kaioken and Blue evolved so Vegeta could keep up.

[@Agentsmithwasright]

I like vegeta's transformation and I'm not the only one you call and God mixed with kaioken was truly badass a big part of dbz is the transformations and power scaling more is better always

[@Agentsmithwasright]

@@CAGExplains and what is your take on gohan beast from literally no training? Everyone complains about vegeta keeping up but at least he's been putting in the work but gohan has not trained for longer than 5 minutes and is capable of fighting in the tournament because plot armor

[@newkiller4457]

@@AgentsmithwasrightI actually liked the concept of blue kaioken bc it made techniques important again especially the usage of ki control which was talked about since Z ever since king Kai told him how the kaioken technique works. The better ki control you have and the stronger your body is, the better you can utilize the kaioken technique.

[@1erickf50]

Tbh, the power scaling became convoluted af ever since SSG was presented

[@charlietownsend2826]

Damn. This is one of the rare times where I started out skeptical but was actually convinced by the end of the video. Solid arguments and great job.

[@AvalenFrost]

SSJ4 is still my favorite transformation. To me it brings back the origin of saiyans, by letting them have control over their great ape forms. It's the only kind of merch I buy from DB nowadays.

[@maalikserebryakov]

imagine buying merch

[@haniflawson9225]

You could make this same argument for Broly’s “legendary” green-haired form, seeing as how Toriyama’s Broly designs only went up to Super Saiyan.

[@enzohcp7326]

Yeah, buff yellow not buff green But I think we agreed in Green is cool in Broly

[@feepentertainment6752]

Fair. But when you hear Broly, the green hair is what comes to mind. It would almost be mind numbingly idiotic to not use that trait if you want to use the character again because the two are effectively synonymous.

[@Ami31895]

Editing is spectacular!!🔥🔥🔥

[@CAGExplains]

You know I always push myself lol 🔥

[@WiiFan-1300]

@@CAGExplains F yeah 🔥

[@FriskyLotto]

That Vegito Blue Edit was fire.

[@ProtectorCross]

In 2018 during the Tokyo Skytree + Viz North America Tour, they explained that DBS Manga to be the official sequel and canon to the DB Manga by Toriyama, only excluding DBZ BoG. In the same event, they also led into the DBS Broly Film. This was later reaffirmed in a weekly shonen jump issue in December of 2018. V-Jump also has a guide on how to read the manga for DBS, You'll read the manga to chapter 4, then you can read the animanga of RES F (Just the film put into manga format, aka also just the film), then you'll read all the way to chapter 42 right after the TOP and read the animanga/watch DBS Broly, then you continue onward. The only time they've broken this trend is currently with Super Hero Arc in their manga where it seems the movie events are staying in tact with side story additions to further flesh out the story.

[@DigitalWraith]

Ultra Instinct not being canon makes sense considering we initially thought it was a technique, but both the anime and manga made it into a transformation. Hell, now we have 3 forms of it, and they all contradict each other. Sign is an unmastered version, but the "mastered" version also isn't the mastered version, but another version that looks identical to Sign is the mastered Ultra Instinct. I'm jusy done with it. Too many chefs in the kitchen.

[@joadarium9605]

My exact gripe with Super handling transformations or just Super in general, it’s too much too soon

[@leultrainstinct406]

ultra instinct is canon. the fans are the only ones who gave those fan made names. goku never mastered it. he only mastered the basics in the Moro arc to turn it on and off at will. the reason there’s diff versions now is because goku is a completely different life form than angels. So the more he develops it, he had to find his own style. not just copying whis.

[@DigitalWraith]

@@leultrainstinct406 You’re making a lot of head canon talking points. Whis stated in the manga clearly that Goku needs to learn how to access Ultra Instinct without transforming. Saying transforming is supposed to be a last resort strictly for a power increase. This was after the Moro arc. And now, Goku is using his Sign form while mastering Ultra Instinct.

[@DorkAndFriends]

Toyotaro is a very ambitions person, often writing to please the readers rather than writing to develop story or progression. This is seen in many ways since he took the mantle. Toriyama's Goku is in this spot between dunce and goofy and it's because of how Toyotaro has written goku previously that he's forced to keep him this lighthearted goofball. If a movie came out and Goku suddenly reverted to his Frieza saga personality, it wouldn't make sense. I honestly feel bad for Toriyama. It's a shame to trust someone to keep the story moving forward only to have them retcon a bunch of things for fan service, and even greater shame that you're now sidelined to movies. He's getting older, he couldn't write or illustrate now like he could 20 years ago, so coming back to the helm as a full time supervisor or Illustrator for the manga is out of the question. Now he's working with 3 different continuities.

[@donsq4306]

Toyotaro should have been never given so much influence. He is a hard worker and a very talented guy. But not even near the skill level of Toriyama. Both in artstyle and story writing, as a writer you shouldn't strive to please your audience if it downgrades the quality of writing. Since most people don't understand writing elements. The end result will make the fans more happy anyway.

[@SonicMegaKing]

That's not on Toyotaro, it's absolutely on Toriyama, given the stupidity was present in Resurrection F.

[@donsq4306]

@@SonicMegaKing To know precisely we need to know who wrote what. At this point Toriyama is to old to write the whole script I really doubt he did. He is more of a superviser.

[@OWRen5432]

Honestly i blame Toriyama more than Toyotaro, while Toriyama is indeed old he cleary doesn't give a fuck about DB anymore, If he truly cared about DB as much someone like Oda cares about OP or Togashi with his work he would probably make sure to revisit his past works see what he did wrong and check what he did before (since he apparently often forgets what he did) and aid Toyotaro in making sure that it's consistent to the past work and make remarks about his mistakes. Toyotaro is a passionated fan, but he's not a pro and having as one of your first serious works literally making the Dragon Ball series continue it's such a hard and tough task that Toriyama and other people at Jump should acknowledge and do their best to NOT give Toyotaro too much creative freedom/making sure he does things right while also aiding him into improving as a writer.

[@donsq4306]

@@OWRen5432 Toriyama does care but he has no power over this. Even if he would die God forbit the series would go on anyway. They dont respect his wishes to retire the series. He choose to be involved with Battle of gods and change allot of concepts. The entire movie would be different. But he is way to tired to work like he did with Z with little sleep. So now Toyotaro and his staff pretty much do 99 precent of the work. Cant blame Toriyama here at all but Toei alone.

[@ShinobudRUski]

Kinda unrelated to the video, but what I really like about UI despite its brokenness and OPness, is that it seems like a natural continuation to his original martial arts training, based on what it does and how it works.

[@lowclasswarrior9269]

I like how it's just a cash grab it's so 😎

[@illseeyaonthedarksideofthemoon]

That was at first, but then end up working as every other mindless power-up...

[@lightmohamed5700]

It’s slowly turning into another power-up tho i really love the idea of it dragon ball is just dragging out and the studio wants to milk it dry that’s the problem

[@zojirushi1]

@@lowclasswarrior9269that’s every form in Super. You get a new form, you get a new form, you all get a new form usually multiple new forms too. Basically at least a New form every arc smh my head.

[@EskChan19]

@@illseeyaonthedarksideofthemoon Yeah. It really sucks how it's just another power up at this point. The idea of it basically being the ultimate martial art was awesome. Then it went from a technique that you need to use into a full on transformation that changes your body, and now it's just a stat boost that ocassionally weaves an attack, which isn't new and Goku has done that a ton back in the day even all the way back to Namek.

[@apollotropical]

Never seen this level of editing. Amazing vid

[@CAGExplains]

Thanks a lot bro!

[@sasaki999pro]

Lets not gloss over the fact that Toriyama completely forgot that he even made Super Saiyan 2 when he was in the process of making Battle of Gods. Of all the people making this series, I think no one takes the continuity less seriously than Akira Toriyama.

[@SaiyanGamer95]

To be fair, SS2 looks exactly the same for everyone except Gohan. So it's kinda easy to forget.

[@killerkirby515]

Really well made video bro, channel is heavily underrated!

[@CAGExplains]

I appreciate that! The channel is growing so hopefully I won't be underrated for long lol

[@banjo9158]

Great Video, and i agree that Canon doesn't make quality nor impact, worse. I'll never understand why so many people think something being Canon or not equals quality, Super Saiyan 4 is the best Dragon Ball transformation, and it's not Canon, and being Canon or not don't make it better or worse in quality. same goes for Ultra Instinct.

[@BFG40k]

Toriyama is notorious for forgetting things he wrote. Not surprised he for got about Goku's character growth.

[@ResponsibleToTheRealm]

I have to say, your script is top tier. I'm nervous for you that people will see the title and immediately not watch it, but you deserve all the views in the world, Casual Anime Guy Explains.

[@aetherblackbolt1301]

00:00:40 Holy moly, Battle of Gods (and thus modern DB) was 10 years ago? Damn, I'm starting to feel old. I remember freaking out about DBZ in the 2000s as a kid when playing DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 1/2.

[@justinsden]

YESSIR! Your editing style is so amazing bro. Blows me away every time! Can't wait to see you blow up! Edit: The Smash Bros music in the back in a nice touch! I love it!

[@CAGExplains]

Thanks bro! I've just gotta keep grinding and be like you man! Glad you recognised the Smash Bros Music 🔥 I'm gonna join your discord later today too.

[@justinsden]

@@CAGExplains No need to be like me, lol. You are lightyears ahead in your own way! Seriously, keep up the amazing work! Looking forward to seeing you in the discord! Send me a friend request when you do!

[@wylece3521]

@@CAGExplains btw what was the music for the vegito blue one? Sounds familiar

[@christiancinnabars1402]

I hope the manga can lead the story from now on, with the movies providing some small snippets of Toriyama's vision in between. Having three whole continuities is very disorderly, hurting the fandom's grasp on the plot and even the series (such as the manga's rendition of the ToP, which I'm 90% certain was rushed to catch up to the anime). Of course, this could be done after the manga passes the current movie recap. Which I don't know for the life of me why it needs to do one when it _easily_ skipped over DBS Broly.

[@darthjc4]

But the manga already isn't cannon if you take the movie and anime into fact. For example in Super hero the movie there was no mention of past stuff in the manga but now in the manga version of Super Hero Moro has happened, vegeta has ultra ego, etc. At this point, there is no Absolute cannon with DBS in my opinion.

[@EskChan19]

@@darthjc4 Super Hero didn't reference anything past so it doesn't go against anything. Just because noone brought the Moro Arc up that doesn't mean that it didn't happen. The whole point of showing Goku and Vegeta in Super Hero was just to explain why they weren't around to deal with the threat this time.

[@leultrainstinct406]

⁠@@darthjc4super hero was planned in 2018. that’s why they didn’t mention anything else because it took place years after the script was made. the manga fixed those changes into how it’s supposed to be. Dbs anime and manga are both canon, but they’re trying to get both on the same page so mistakes don’t happen anymore. That’s the entire reason for the 5 year hiatus

[@Black-mc9mc]

There is actually a teaser inside the Broly movie. Vegeta asked Goku if he was able to go ultra instinct after the tournament of power. During the power up sequence of Goku going into super saiyan blue, if you look closely his hair turns white but slams his chest and turns into super saiyan blue.

[@samueloak1600]

True!!

[@nathanielus5296]

That was just the animators going wild with the effects, or do you think Vegeta also went LSSJ for a moment?

[@sor3999]

@@nathanielus5296 Yeah, totally wild effects that happen to land on the exact effects for Ultra Instinct and holds onto it for a good moment to tease us. Oh please. Are you blind?

[@DragonNodez]

​@@sor3999 so vegeta can go lssj, got it

[@EskChan19]

@@DragonNodez Except Vegeta was just a brief flash of color for an over the top effect, while for that point where they showed Ultra Instinct even Gokus aura completely changed to the sparkly one from Ultra Instinct. Vegeta just spazzed out with the colors but Gokus aura actively changed to a completely different style.

[@defaultname7685]

This makes so much sense. I knew something was off when Goku and Vegeta talk about Jiren in Super Hero as if he was some kind of recent threat when canonically years had passed since then and they had fought much stronger opponents. I feel like this also means that Beast Gohan is probably equal to or a bit stronger than full power Super Saiyan Blue by that logic. I really hate that Super is in the hands of Toei/Toyotaro - they really *do* have to create a new form to beat each villain because they don't know how to create hype any other way and its really destroyed the immersion of the story for me. BoG has SSG, RoF has SSB, U6 has SSBKK, FT has Vegito, USS has UI, Broly had Gogeta, Moro has avatar Goku, Granolah has like three random forms, Super Hero had Beast, etc. The big problem is that unlike in Z these new forms completely eclipse the previous one, and it's a big part why Super doesn't feel like a genuine continuation of Z to me. The characters dont feel like "real" people anymore with their own consistent motivations and personalities like they were in Z, they just feel like characters that are led around by a fourth wall puppetmaster for fanservice instead of having their own agency. Vegeta regressed his character to become a foil again for Goku, Goku became mentally retarded, etc. Super Hero was probably the most egregious example of this and despite it being a fun watch I really hate that it exists.

[@GeteMachine]

This video was so necessary. It opened my eyes about a lot I didnt know about. That really Super isnt any more or less canon than GT or the movies either, because its the same development process. It should really be evident to end all these fandom debates on canon because, its exactly the same process. I really wish people would stop arguing about canon, or bashing the manga, because they are all just adaptions with creative divergences. Even Jiren was kind of butchered a bit, because he was supposed to be the example prelude to UI before Goku & Vegeta understood it.

[@CAGExplains]

Yeah the only thing that's close to "True Canon" in DBS is the movies but even that is missing a lot of story. Fans should just enjoy what they like from Dragon Ball and not worry about whether or not it's "Canon"

[@arrownoir]

@@CAGExplains Precisely.

[@KaoticReach1999]

Always nice to be apart of the first subscribers of someone you'll look back on once they get huge 😁 Never censor your opinions fam, it's so refreshing!!

[@ChronicDreamer1st]

Toriyama needed a way to hit the reset button on Goku so he hit the mental reset button and turned Goku into an idiot with amnesia. This was a last-minute quick fix brought on by frustration after multiple attempts to replace Goku with a different main character failed.

[@MSCDonkeyKong]

i find it completely believable, seeing how a lot of toriyama's writing involves not remembering his own old concepts and roots, and UI's foundation is based off of goku remembering the old way of a martial artist and actually learning something, which requires re-learning lessons he's unlearned, which requires remembering your old shit and not just abandoning a moral and theme from one arc after its finished. which toriyama has been doing since OG dragon ball with the ultra divine water. i think the issue is that UI is simply too beloved and integral to DBS's identity for that to be ignored without causing a MASSIVE problem with fans. its already super iconic, almost on par with super saiyan. and what i think that means is if toriyama's editor is capable of convincing toriyama to literally canonize broly, then i doubt that anything that straight up says "one of the most iconic transformations in the series and major focus of the super manga is now non-canon" would make it past editing.

[@Decepticant]

No matter what you think of Super as a whole you have to admit the Ultra Instinct reveals were so badass.

[@glasco_]

Lol blown away with the edits within first 5 seconds

[@CAGExplains]

Appreciate that bro, I was very proud of that hair effect, had to show it off ASAP 🤣🔥

[@matsu7086]

Goku knows what a kiss is, he was asking about Trunks baby-birding the Senzu to Mai. The joke is that Vegeta misunderstood what Goku was asking.

[@theamazingspiral]

4:21 music is Survival from MadWorld

[@kamuisensei9045]

14:35 welcome to the anime Community people are always obsessed with Canon instead of just having fun with extra stories we get.

[@dgoonsworld5519]

Very interesting video. As a hard dragon ball fan this was very informative but it doesn’t change the fact that toriyama gave his series to toei so the cannon doesn’t really belong to him. In saiyan scholars video he shows an author statement from toriyama showing that dragon ball gt is toeis and dragon balls official sequel to the dragon ball z series

[@dgoonsworld5519]

@Maab idk how much rights toriyama gave them but they have the power to clearly override his judgements at there choosing. Ui wasn’t supposed to be in the broly movie and neither was broly supposed to have green hair that was just something they threw in. Super hero wasn’t supposed to be a gohan movie it was supposed to be a piccolo centered movie and in some ways he was but he definitely took that side role for gohan

[@dgoonsworld5519]

@Maab after the top it was made clear he couldn’t do it again until further training with whis. Overall toriyama is an old man who ended his series a long time ago on a good note, toriyama is still an amazing writer but they keep changing crucial elements of the story and end up creating disasters, dbs anime was really falling apart, the manga is a much better adaptation even though it has its own issues

[@warrenbradford2597]

Yes, canon or not, Ultra Instinct was brilliant move on the animator’s part. It was what Super needs to be popular, again.

[@leultrainstinct406]

it’s canon. editors and directors working with toriyama have added changes that he’s approved of even in the original db manga. perfect example, 19 and 20 were supposed to be the original villains. Cell wasn’t even an idea. But just because those changes were made does that mean it’s non canon?

[@robotboy765]

" a new transformation because dbs fans only live transformation "

[@AlphaThree]

Ultra instinct has been both a hinted at since the beginning of super and Goku and Vegeta were made clear by whis that was their goal even if he didnt use the term ultra instinct he alluded to it. One May say all new forms from Goku scene in dB was development for UI

[@YightLagami]

It’s more of a mastery of a martial art rather than a power up the way it’s described early on. The way it is attained/mastered is asinine. I think early on too, it’s implied Beerus can use ultra instinct and implied Beerus used it when he and the other gods were showcased to fight. He didn’t do a big transformation or form change like Goku does. It basically exists only for 2 transformations for merch

[@ggwp638BC]

UI is just mastering martial arts, same thing Goku did before Z. It even rehashes moments and feats from Namek Goku.

[@milkman6218]

Bro your Nostrils are out of this world.

[@baxter7784]

At this point in the DBS life cycle, I don't care too much if something is or isn't canon - sure, I get the idea that Toriyama would have wanted things to be his way 100%, but the results of the anime adaptations (besides BoG and Res-F) were pretty fun and interesting to watch. Especially since I myself don't keep up with the manga. Regardless of what happens in the development, I am so excited to see if/how DBS gets their adaptations for the newer chapters or arcs.

[@beatdeath9962]

Even though it always seemed like Toriyama hated Vegeta, Vegeta has been the character (when written by him) to get the most love and development, he catches every L and yet his writing still makes him a beloved character. I've only seen a few clips of the Superhero movie as I don't have a way to watch currently, but knowing most the scenes that include Vegeta, Toriyama seems to have grown to like Vegeta to the point Goku feels like the younger Vegeta while Vegeta feels like he gained development and he is the one mastering martial arts now. Ultra Instinct is something Goku used to always be able to do the power is just mastery over Martial Arts, the fact that Goku has lost that in basically every continuity and needs a transformation to be able to do the thing he used to always be able to do, shows he regressed and is only now progressing again (plus Toyotaro said he wants UI to become apart of Goku's base later on, but then that would just be the Goku we used to know when he was actually a Martial Artist). Plus as much as Beast Gohan sems very fanservice like, he is also mimicking the appearance original Super Saiyan was going to have with the white hair and red eyes. Can never know for sure but to me it feels like Toriyama gives the best moments to everyone but Goku, and the only reason Goku is still the protagonist is cause no one would read or watch without the MAIN CHARACTER and he knows that. These are just my thoughts and observations as a fan of Dragonball, to me Toriyama wanted Dragonball to be over forever ago and is probably fed up with Goku, but last time he took a backseat on Dragonball, DB: Evolution became a thing and nearly ruined the franchise he carefully crafted. So to me Toriyama doesn't want to see his Franchise crash in the wrong hands, but he is also kind of fed up with Goku so when he writes him in a way that keeps him there for people to enjoy, but not nearly as much spotlight as he gets in the anime and manga, as he probably sees Goku in a different way from all of us fans, remember Toriyama never wrote Goku as a hero his SSJ speech wasn't as what most of us saw, to Toriyama Goku was never a Superhero.

[@SoupCanMafia]

I still prefer Goku while Toriyama still had to deal with his editors. I know that it's a personal kind of sacrilegious to say that Toriyama's pure Goku is anything but the best, but I just up and out prefer the other Goku because he can still retain the child-at-heart nature that he's always carried with him, but when the heat's on, he can crank it up and keep up with it. I can also buy that Goku is not a Hero, that his heroic deeds were mostly incidental and driven by an ultimately selfish desire that unintentionally was fairly selfless. However, I don't buy the opinion that he's pretty much the biggest idiot on his side of the universe. A somewhat smart, but naive man to the point of selective oblivious? That makes sense. But a willing idiot who couldn't function by himself if he were forced to? That's basically a spit in his face.

[@beatdeath9962]

@@SoupCanMafia I agree I prefer that Goku, I was just stating how Goku changed, Goku changed cause his story was technically over in Z and so now the only way to keep him around is resetting him which ultimately leads to a dislike of the character

[@SoupCanMafia]

@@beatdeath9962 I do hate how sometimes, I can go on these off-tangent rants that covers only a portion of the larger picture, mostly because I just focus on those minute details. Though at the same time, I also kinda relish these kinds of moments. Though I doubt anyone will truly have a problem if I can just ignore the parts I don't want to acknowledge, it's unfortunately still a component that needs to be put under review. A component the lot of us don't like, but still one nonetheless. Looping back to Vegeta for a hot second, it's also intriguing about how he also has a soft characterization loop where he has to relearn how to fight alongside Goku, though I think the general payoff with Vegeta's loop is overall more satisfying than with Goku's loop, in part because it showcases a damn good grow in his maturity and outlook from a different perspective.

[@beatdeath9962]

@@SoupCanMafia I agree I tend to rant a bit too, I try to contain it a bit though, sometimes I just go on forever. And just like what you said with Vegeta his loop is a lot better because we have a reason to understand it and he didn't reset to 0 like Goku did, Vegeta's arc in Z was becoming more human and caring for the people around him and he clearly still has that arc completion, he did slightly revert back with the unwillingness to work with Goku but I can more willingly believe that with how Goku acts vs believing Goku forgot everything he has ever done since he was a child.

[@AstralFireIX]

@@SoupCanMafia Toriyama was much better with editors. I didn't always agree with the editor pushes, but overall, it seems clear now that they were responsible for as much depth of characterization as we got, since Toriyama with little or no editorial pushback seems content to write very simple characters. Gohan as protagonist would have taken serious work and worse, introspection (since he's said Gohan is most similar to himself) while Goku with no depth as displayed in Buu and even moreso in Super is *extremely* easy to write. Everything that makes Vegeta popular is the emotional layers underneath the sneering jerk, and that -- again -- is not Toriyama's forte. Toriyama's strengths are designs and dramatic timing.

[@ameeneagle5351]

God damn when i saw this video for the editing i thought the channel had more than a million subs but you seem to only have 741 SUBS! That is insane! You deserve more subs and i 100% believe you will get famous soon since this editing is criminally underrated

[@Maina980]

That intro was SO GOOD. Edit: Bro was left to cook in the kitchen too long. This some Film Theory levels of thinking

[@CAGExplains]

I was locked in that kitchen for a while bro! Glad you liked the video! 😂🔥

[@RACH90810]

​@@CAGExplains about in super hero they are debating about method of training after broli went overboard. Whis suggest 1v1 match without power up to decide training menu. And that was Goku intended to do with broli. At the end both Goku, Whis and Vegeta wins. Goku got his base form sparring match, Vegeta won from Goku and Whis menu of training that day was meditating.

[@panosstef4413]

You blew my mind

[@CAGExplains]

I'm glad I did, DBS is way more complex than what it should be lol

[@Silent_Mask]

This is the best argumentative video I've seen in a good while. You actually got research and facts to back your claim up, bravo

[@thedinosavior]

If we're going to be honest, the fact that Omen to MUI Goku united all of the dragon ball community is something special. Cannon or not. Also if we're still being honest it was sick as hell and really drove home the teamwork point that Toriyama had envisioned for the ending even if UI wasn't intended, as Goku even with a new level of power wasn't able to pull through relying on friends to push them to the finish line. Nice vid btw

[@manuelkanakaris64]

My man you are singlehandedly exposing the truth about new age dragon ball! Ive been talking bout it for years! Thanks!!!!

[@Shadow-Astro69]

It's inconsistent writing also I feel like toriyama lost the love for the story which explains why he worked so much on dragon ball daima because it reminded him of the OG dragon ball and his love was lit again RIP the GOAT

[@FidzDanto]

Bro your channel is so underrated your editing is insane for someone with 1k subs keep it up man

[@ChrisMALUKAI]

very interesting video! it made me realize that in the Z Broly movie, there's also no mention of Gohan SSJ2 but since he can go SSJ, him and Goku allegedly went training in the Time Chamber before meeting Broly. it's a Z movie so it's more like a "what if" scenario, though the analogy is there ^^

[@doofers5003]

it's a 99% chance that it takes place in the 10 day time frame between the announcement of the cell games and the actual cell games.

[@ChrisMALUKAI]

@@doofers5003 Totally agree 💯

[@_grievous_the_epok_gamur_7140]

This video’s editing is beautiful

[@FamerWithTheStrap]

Damn great video bro

[@CAGExplains]

Thanks bro glad you enjoyed it! 🔥

[@cidlunius1076]

That last bit that you're mentioning is what I'm really enjoying about Super. Toriyama-san and Toyotaro-san are melding the old with the new and trying to bring a lot more levity back to Dragonball. The exploration, the adventures, the shenanigans, those were all just as important as the beam battles and transformations.

[@robotboy765]

Olny the first volume of DB were a comedy. Sayan saga, freezer saga, cell saga and buu saga are very serious arc with much tension. And these arc are not made by Toriyama but by Torishima his editor. All db fans know that every good idea not came from toriyama but came from torishima. This is why dbs is a bad sequel. This is a parody of DB unless the tension

[@davizi6146]

Went into this video thinking it was a massive load of malarkey. Exited thinking you were entitely right. Peak content, especially with the editing.

[@Xtremepoophead]

This video is actually legendary wtf

[@deon6045]

I've watched a few of these videos, where you explain so many problems that have occurred, how the series has failed in general, and Goku's character assassination... With all of this in mind, it really sounds like Dragon Ball is cursed in some way--which is kind of sad, given how the old series sounds far better than what's in production now.

[@Ami31895]

Fabulous as usual! 🎉❤🎉❤

[@Willowposting]

Goku really pissed me off in Super Hero. "How's sitting on a rock all day gonna help you get stronger?" This is something Goku would have never said in the past, and the fact Toriyama has decided to retcon him into essentially a kid again mentally pisses me off, and makes Goku an insanely unlikeable character now.

[@FezzUG]

The way its explained how the tournament of power was suppose to be sounds so much better than what was delivered, dang

[@tunaep_yt]

The script of dragon ball super was written before the TOP I think, so that's why there was no mention of UI

[@xerofire]

Okay but this would imply that the angels having UI all the time was something they just came up with out of nowhere when writing the TOP. Which would make their white hair just a very convenient detail for the writers.

[@SAWYERFAN.1]

I mean it looks really neat tbh

[@YightLagami]

Beerus has UI too but he doesn’t change his aura color or that nonsense

[@spodermoose7401]

I was baffled when vegito blue didnt win, Like vegito in blue form should be a beerus tier fighter at least. I get the gist the anime needed to wait for the manga and perhaps SSB would be a more iconic transformation

[@wrathnyx2039]

I don't think Goku is ready for the absolute MENACE that is Dio Brando 😂🤣

[@CAGExplains]

I wonder if Goku's stand would be an Ozaru? 😂🤔

[@wrathnyx2039]

@@CAGExplains that would be dope. Don't think that an Oozaru Stand could touch Dio though. But yeah, I think Dio is the most evil mufucka in manga/anime.... Well there is Femto too. Frieza is Fat Free/Sugar Free/Caffeine Free/Diet Evil compared to Dio.

[@HuskySansVergogne]

I hadn't heard dragon's dogma music for a long time, I even had trouble remembering that it was dragon's dogma

[@yuukitenjouin5790]

I wish a better writer had Toriyama's notes. One day, he'll publish them, and we can all take turns butchering the vision.

[@CallMeSuper184]

*knocks on door* "ITS ME GOKU" "ITS ME GOKU" Got me dying 🤣🤣

[@Just_Caden]

I think this depends on what you consider "canon" to dragon ball, Toriyama as far as I know has been slightly more hands off since the original ROF and BOG movies though he does still have influence over the series Not disagreeing with your reasoning or info, I actually learned quite a lot from this video, but I think calling it "non-canon" because Toriyama didn't intend it is debateable

[@lazylenni1017]

Your editing is impressive!

[@GoldenQuickie]

Just found your channel, keep up the great videos. I like people who can use critical thinking towards dragon ball

[@this_is_japes7409]

4:20 putting this here for when I feel the need to listen in again.

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

To be fair, maybe this is why Toriyama shouldn't have the final say on things. Battle of Gods had to correct 18's hair and De-SSJ Gohan because he forgot she's blonde and he's supposed to be Ultimate and not need SSJ to reach full power. He forgot SSJ 2 existed, too. And, of course, he thinks Goku should suddenly be a pile of bricks with his intelligence. The guy who's meditated himself plenty of times before, Krillin and Gohan even "image training" on the way to Namek, suddenly doesn't get meditation, and he has two sons and doesn't know what kissing is. Seems to me like he's okay with abandoning Goku's character development just for the sake of comedy. Sort of like George Lucas was with Star Wars, he has great ideas, but maybe he needs an editor behind him to clean it up a little.

[@maalikserebryakov]

Goku is a window into Toriyama’s brain. We saw goku was sharp, kind of goofy but also kind of intelligent and heroic sometimes in Z. Toriyama was also a sharp writer, who inserted well placed moments of comic relief, but could also plan intelligent plots like with future trunks. Then in Super goku acts like he’s lobotomised. And yup toriyama is also going senile.

[@muffinfighter3680]

Bruh I binged all your vids. Why don't you have more subs? You really deserve it :D

[@garvielloken8494]

Boy i like how people project their opinion onto official canon. Cry all you want UI Goku is in manga, is in anime, is in games, is in merch, and it will stay like that for majority of people.

[@7thesage853]

Not gonna lie…Goku not knowing what a kiss is implied so much and it was frickin hilarious 😂 especially Vegeta’s reaction

[@whodatboi2567]

Your argument falls when you consider: 1) Just because Toriyama gave character designs for movie characters doesn't automatically mean that him giving character designs isn't an indicator of him giving a 'canon stamp of approval'. Otherwise things such as Super Saiyan Rose wouldn't be canon. And again, Toriyama knowingly gave the design of Ultra Instinct knowing that Goku needed a new transformation and that it had to be different from previous Super Saiyan transformations. 2) Ultra Instinct was first demonstrated and explained by Whis in Resurrection F (you know, THE SUPER CANON MOVIE)

[@whodatboi2567]

@Maab Regarding your first point, given that Toriyama gave input on the form and that most of what makes Ultra Instinct what it is can be amalgamated from commonalities in the manga and the anime. With the overall point being made, this idea that everything outside of the movies isn't canon is an unverified position that you and the maker of this video hold. Yes, the anime and the manga will have aspects that Toriyama has no say on but I find the evidence lacking that something as monumental and pivotal to the story as Ultra Instinct would be something Toriyama himself has put direct input in; especially given how much of a vocal point it becomes in arcs after the Tournament of Power.

[@whodatboi2567]

@Maab Well the three continuities is an opinion you both hold whereas most accept an amalgamated continuity since all the possess a level of congruency. Also I didn't find Goku not grasping Jiren's energy conservation not too out of the ordinary as since he knows Ultra Instinct up to this point and since it's a technique that requires movement without thought that Goku not understanding the mechanics of the technique would be in line with him instead relying purely on instinct. Wouldn't be the first time he grasped a technique via instinct alone e.g. the Kamehameha.

[@whodatboi2567]

@Maab Technically what Jiren does according to Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero is a different fight philosophy since it espouses efficient movement whereas Ultra Instinct is moving without thinking. I'd say it's the difference between Floyd Mayweather's defensive fighting versus Naseem Hamed's unpredictable yet over exaggerated head movement. The indication seems to be that Whis and the Angels are attempting to find a warrior capable of mastering both the path of the God of Destruction and Ultra Instinct as seemingly contradictory they are. Yes, how the form is achieved has been left to the discretion of Toei and Toyotarou but the fundamentals of the form being consistent across both iterations indicates that the form can be considered canon. Again, both iterations follow story beats given by Toriyama himself and unless you can find evidence that points to Ultra Instinct having no further input from Toriyama (which neither of you have provided and again, all sources on the matter indicate a direct input on the form from Toriyama himself) then the assertion that it's not canon solely because it doesn't appear in the films is one where the evidence available so far points to this not being the most likely answer.

[@whodatboi2567]

@Maab Efficiency in regards to energy expenditure/force generate not in terms of movement. "... ui user has this Goku fights very efficiently in ui when he beat down moro in the manga..." Yes, SUBCONSCIOUSLY. Unlike Jiren who has to intentionally manage his movement and energy expenditure. "... but let's say jiren's method is not ui then it's more of a proof that ui form isn't canon according to toriyama, because whis was very happy that vegeta figured it out earlier than goku and he wants goku and vegeta's training to go in that direction.." 1) Nowhere is it stated that Jiren's method is Ultra Instinct. 2) How is it not being Ultra Instinct proof that Ultra Instinct is not canon? It could be an entirely different fighting philosophy. 3) Whis being happy could be due to it being another facet of fighting that Whis wants his trainees to master. Again, Ultra Instinct is something that the Whis (and most likely the other Angels) want the God of Destructions to master. While Goku knows Ultra Instinct he doesn't have a grasp on God of Destruction techniques. So, based on this, it's highly likely that there are other facets of fighting that Goku may not know that Whis wants him and Vegeta to figure out.

[@whodatboi2567]

@Maab "goku and vegeta's training as per superhero movie is learning to fight like jiren, Me saying that if this isn't ui then it's more of a proof that ui is not canon is simply that Goku and vegeta aren't going to learn ultra instinct anymore and they never did if goku ever did attained a transformation that allowed him to perfect it..." This doesn't make sense to me. Why would Whis give up on them learning Ultra Instinct especially after introducing it? This makes far more sense if at least one of them grasped Ultra Instinct and where trying to learn other facets of godhood. "... another reason why this form doesn't make sense narratively from toriyama's vision is because jiren was around super saiyan blue goku and vegeta lvl Vegeta said that jiren wasn't that much stronger than us so he can't make goku break his limits to achieve a transformation two-three times in minutes, toriyama wrote universe 7 team work defeats jiren... " 1) This is contradictory. On one hand you're saying that Jiren was around Super Saiyan Blue level yet team work was required to beat him. If it takes more than one person to beat him then he has to be significantly stronger than they are. 2) Jiren not being that much stronger still makes sense as this probably alludes to him not being PHYSICALLY stronger than Goku and Vegeta (further evidenced by most of their training in the past focusing on improving their physical capabilities) "... toriyama wrote universe 7 team work defeats jiren ui transformation didn't made any impact on the outcome... " Ultra Instinct was written in the Tournament of Power to a) not be as easily accessible but rather happening in the heat of the moment and b) causing significant strain on the body. It being strong enough to take out Jiren but not reliable enough to do so makes sense. Also wouldn't be the first time that a strong form wasn't heavily utilised due to a lack of reliability e.g. Super Saiyan Grade 3 and Super Saiyan 3 Goku in the Buu Saga.

[@Mister_Prime]

I think people should stop with the Canon, Non-Canon de-bates, and just look at it as a multiverse like Marvel and DC has. ...Dragon Ball goes in so many different directions, that no one can truly pinpoint what is Canon from Non-Canon. Not even Toriyama. ...Because when it comes down to it, he really doesn't care about the whole Canon Vs Non-Canon thing, he just wants to make a fun and entertaining story.

[@Pixel_PedroYT]

This changes everything! I hope we get a Toriyama-canon version of each arc!

[@EskChan19]

This is just wrong anyway, but we won't, Toriyama doesn't really write anymore. He gave a rough story bible to his assistant who writes the manga now and this won't change anytime soon. But yeah this is just content for clicks, it's pretty much bullshit.

[@AllMight6]

Yeah I guess I’d love to see a tori-canon version of the android arc with 19 & 20 as the main antagonists

[@Green-3c34y65vrbu]

this actually makes so much sense. it's no wonder there's always certain parts of Super that i loved, and others that i hated; and furtherso, why i way proffered the movies (BOG, Broly, Superhero) to the Super anime; there's quite simply a difference in quality. Toyotaro and Toei are writing non-Dragon Ball schlock that doesn't appeal to me, while Toriyama writes what i love about Dragon Ball. .. i'm not a fan of his Goku though, lol.

[@Simo-d3t]

I like Toriyama's vision better. This is the canon I want to believe.

[@ricardomonrroy67]

I swear these small channels have the best production

[@Garrettwhite24]

Congratulations your now at 700 !! I just subscribed and DAN THAT EDITING 🔥🔥🔥 How tf do you know have more subs . YOU DESERVE IT 💪 BRO !

[@CAGExplains]

I appreciate that bro! I've just gotta post more consistently, which I will be doing from now on. Look forward to it and I'm glad to have you as a subscriber! 🔥🔥

[@Garrettwhite24]

@@CAGExplains yah no problem bro and also this form may not be canon but still we can't lie ultra instinct vs Jiren was a masterpiece epic ! Rollercoaster ride 💪!!!

[@royboykaratekid1]

I wondered why I felt scared during this video then clocked the Sonic Rush boss music playing in the background, elite game and soundtrack

[@blazermaser7441]

In the broly movie, Goku attempts to force himself into Ultra Instinct while going SSJB, his hair flashing white as he charged up

[@Hajime790]

Cope

[@NorrisFoxx]

Wait a minute, if I recall, Goku did mention in either DBS Broly or Super Hero that he's been unable to tap into ultra instinct since the tournament of power.

[@ChrisDeVarro]

That auras wrath theme!!! 🔥

[@CAGExplains]

Shout out to you bro for recognising it! 🔥

[@ChrisDeVarro]

@@CAGExplains its definitely fire, I use it as a theme song for one of my mugen stages. Also check me out sometime. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2Pag595fraqhbM

[@thevibedoctorphd]

Strangely enough, even though it wasn't really spoken about in the Broly movie, Goku did nearly tap into UI when turning SSB. Alotta people thought he just couldn't because he wasn't in the right state of calm.

[@Stoicism_mastery]

UI isn't a form, it's a technique like Kaioken. Since it made it into the continuity, it's canon but just now Toriyama's ORIGINAL plan.

[@1erickf50]

It was supposed to be an all-dodging technique but Toei made it another transformation like the rest

[@Marc-rw3dd]

It's both a form and a technique.