Ranked Mode Sucks: You Can't Get Good At Fighting Games By Yourself

[@jeako777]

In SFV I've often watched replays of players (who beat me) playing against other people who could deal with their strategy. I've learned quite a lot of things by doing this

[@joelevy3042]

James with more brilliant ideas. I think there's a lot of ego in the FGC, and the mindset is "win" over "get better" these days. And kids just wanna win. But i think ideas like yours will be valuable when all the randoms fall off.

[@onehandstance]

My problem with sf6 with ranked is theres less neutral more fuck all players it goes against all i learned

[@monsterofvoices]

This is why I'm really excited for battle hub. With up to 100 people being able to be in one hub, you can effectively create a 24/7 open virtual local.

[@TheSoulCrisis]

Gonna be a game changer for sure.

[@teighhoken2618]

I've been doing a lot of 3-player lobbies with buddies and it's the best time I've ever had with fighting games. Simple rotation (everybody goes 2 on, 1 off), everyone on VC pointing things out and getting a good breather but still spending more time playing than not. It's magical.

[@TheSoulCrisis]

I'm trying to do this with a buddy now, we have a blast in our casual matches and want to get a rotation going!

[@Nateolison]

I been crashing at a friend's house recently. When MK1 dropped, we ended up grinding a bunch. Testing each other'd tech, helping each other optimize combos, suggesting kameo synergies, etc. Having a training partner is a hyperbolic time chamber fr.

[@TheSoulCrisis]

Yeah fighting games are part psychology, match-ups, execution, predictive reads, and actively adjusting battle strategies so I can see how there is a learning multiplier effect once you got someone or a few people to run sets with.

[@mikejonesnoreally]

James, you have to be like, the *last* person who would ever be stuck "Getting good at Fighting Games by yourself!" xD The whole reason i had to change my entire basic Fighting Game *strategy* that i've had since forever is that our "local scene" didn't die it just really never came to life to begin with! Not compared to the East and West Coast scenes! Ranked may be rough but it's a good opportunity to meet others who share the same challenge. Battle rooms are even better for this i think because you can talk and spectate an' everybody stays and just keeps fighting. :) i think the very best (and maybe even one of the more challenging) things about ranked is it gives me the ability to face my greatest weakness in any game or situation and that's *my own attitude and emotions.* :3

[@inactiveaccount4829]

This is such an amazing idea. I firmly believe that this would be an innovative way of improving the fighting game community online. This would be so cool to see as a future rollout in terms of "community improvisation" for Street Fighter 6.

[@TheSoulCrisis]

I love the idea of a real-time online arcade mode to simulate real arcades and locals, would definitely take things to the next level for online players.

[@inactiveaccount4829]

@@TheSoulCrisis Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but yeah man.. it would be cool..

[@shaideyfresh1]

Keep these videos coming James! Great freaken idea bro!! You have to be somehow push these ideas in ALL fighting games!!!

[@TheSoulCrisis]

Wow....this is so damn insightful and meaningful. There's big pros and cons to offline vs. online events for sure, you get the dynamic and social learning catapult in the in-person scene that can't be captured as well in remote settings since we're so spaced apart and more disconnected (but you have far greater access to play consecutive games and fighting people across the world). The truth is it's better to have access to both, the idea of the online arcade mode (like legit arcades) is incredible and would help so many people level up super fast! Me and my SF 6 buddy actually want to get lobbies going with some folks in the future. That explains why people play a lot online and get more frustrated (cause they go back and don't learn). That's proof that the key to growth is learning from your mistakes, seeing what others can pull off, and learning how to leverage great tools and tactics to level up your game (which you're forced to do when you have to wait between games, so you're essentially forced to grow and learn much faster in local events with other good players). This is just more proof of what I need to do to adjust my game and level up, after a loss take a step back to analyze what happened and don't blindly rush in for more! Get better......one game at a time and hit the lab, learn how to manage your resources better and ways to convert situations into combos (while always honing your fundamentals). In essence playing faster doesn't make you better, learning and adjusting faster makes you better.

[@Dude902]

Watching the guy who beat ya ass would be 🔥. We got a thumbs up system already in sf6 and it would be a good use for me

[@ILOVEPANCAKES2K]

Fightcade has a great Spectator mode that allows you to watch other players. I watch Mr Choi alot. It's great to see what other players do in situations or specific match ups and then try to implement it in you're game play.

[@zhaf]

The community and social aspects of fighting games are absolutely missing in todays online environment. Fighting games for me nowdays are much less fun than back in the days where I played with groups of friends. But granted I'm just not good at being social on Discord.

[@UltraChenTV]

Saaaaaame. Being a Discord fighter is really hard. I just never feel like going out hunting for people to fight. It was different with a good arcade scene. You went and there were always people there to throw down with.

[@ForestTekkenVideos]

I've always said that while ranking down when you lose obviously sucks, it does put you against players of your level, which is great. But you're expected to do your own research to "git gud," which is a deterrent for a lot of people.

[@streetfightingman4240]

I think you're raising absolutely brilliant points here. Back in the day I used to play Street Fighter Alpha 3 a lot and ST in Tokyo when I lived there for a while and people would challenge me which was a baptism of fire. But what I really enjoyed and made me play better somehow was when I knew people were watching!! I like to put on a show even if I get washed by the opponent

[@poketop111]

I appreciate you bringing these points up, I've felt recently that while a lot of devs have done a great job at supplementing tournament/competitive experiences (netcode improvements, crossplay, etc.) not much as been done to supplement what we lost socially due to Covid

[@cthulhu888]

As someone whose always been a single player only guy, I've really ever played fighting games for the arcade mode and side stuff. I might play a few online matches but i always hit a wall at some point lol. I do really appreciate how the community aspect of sf6 is going to make the online fight less daunting and inspiring more teaching rather than hazing for most players ^^

[@Pasuhdina]

This is a very important video… honestly having group ranked would change the FGC

[@hugejackedman3447]

3:00 Kinda like having your own corner in a boxing or mma match!

[@SUPERSONICGIRLIFY]

Soul Calibur VI has its own problems, but I do like that in lobbies, you can watch other people play inbetween your turns.

[@Carlosonebillion]

I really want to get to locals but due to various circumstances I can't, and I feel this about the online experience. I need to find some groups on discord or something so it's more social. Ranked is ass

[@malikbaugh7532]

Great points, the issue with most ranked online play is once you get past players tricks they tend to leave rather than grind it out. People hate a hard match and will leave to fight easier opponents than learn to get better. Just what I’ve seen unlike in the arcade if you want to play you had to learn the matchup

[@UltraChenTV]

Yeah. Ranked promotes that, though, unless it’s Tekken where you can engage in “death matches” (reaching until one person finally quits). But otherwise it’s 2 out of 3 and that’s it. Some people will invite to a room and such if the match was good and they wanna learn more. But most probably won’t do it.

[@daRockReaper]

I don't mind the idea of earning a x1.2 multiplier for your crew being on a streak online It's an interesting way to improve

[@jpVari]

Your community ideas would be amazing for content too.

[@davehan241]

Great point, it would facilitate streaming for content creators. Probably save a couple steps of logistics, especially if there's a large "group play" group.

[@simpson6700]

i used to play SF4 like that, good times, unfortunately my group dissolved when SFV was such a disappointment.

[@MG_Gambino]

James, you nailed it here. This topic really gets me boiling because everything is on Twitter and Discord and they barely do much there (once you actually FIND what you're looking for). All we talk about these days is how broken a character is. We're not labbing. We're not discussing matchups (what happened here?), hell, we don't even go into in-depth discussion points anymore. I won't name communities, but it's basically meme, troll, nerf and buff and it's frustrating. I hate to be that "get off my lawn" guy, but, man it gets to the point of why even bother some times. So I can imagine what a new person might be thinking.

[@SlaserX]

Back in the day, we got good on Kalliera

[@davehan241]

Love the ideas and think the pros outweigh the cons. My idea: gamble with your points to rematch. Take that idea of Tekken "death matches" but maybe keep forcing someone to put up higher and higher amounts of their points to rematch? I think it'll prompt untold levels of saltiness...which may end up being a bad thing overall. Not sure, but I'm wiling to roll the dice to see the impact. Edit: Maybe there needs to be a built in time delay between matches to incorporate the cool-down/learning.

[@LungDrago]

I feel like SFV has really bad tools to find sparring partners of your level in general. A lot of people don't even notice a CFN friend request if you send them one and for example the chat options in a battle lobby are atrocious. You have 6 different prompts to talk about weather but no "pls teach me, sensei" option 😕

[@coryharris1939]

This was a great topic.

[@acorn2565]

Close, but ultimately = INCORRECT!!! Cooperative multiplayer modes is the actual answer. I hate guns, but gaming WITH friends had me hooked on FPS games for decades. Before FPS games, we were living a fighting gamer's dream. just in the year around GoldenEye 64's release, we had Street Fighter Alpha 2, SF3, SF EX, Darkstalkers 3, Marvel vs SF, Pocket Fighter, Rival Schools, Star Gladiator - & that was just Capcom. We also had Tekken 3, MK Trilogy,, Samurai Shodown 4 Virtua Fighter 3 & Megamix, Killer Instinct Gold, KoF '97, Bushido Blade, Last Blade, Dead or Alive, Bloody Roar, etc. Then Counter-Strike, Halo, CoD, etc. took over & almost erased fighting games. I'm convinced it's because of cooperative play. We need SF6's World Tour mode to be co-op.

[@UltraChenTV]

That’s essentially what I’m trying to accomplish with the Group Ranked option. Ultimately, Fighting Games can’t be played cooperatively without having a Mode specifically designed for it and then it doesn’t play like the actual game anymore. Fighters are 1-on-1 and we can’t do anything about that.

[@acorn2565]

@@UltraChenTV I think your ideas are most excellent & I'd love those features, but co-op is the key, imo. If it takes an entirely different game mode, them give us that mode! It could be as simple as a classic 2v2 tag system, but a Final Fight mode would be even better because you'd have a story = destination = movement = progress = interest/engagement, but the beat 'em up controls haven't yet translated well, so I see the difficulty in that. Then maybe have open world (World Tour) where you & your "training partner" pick fights simultaneously against another team (2v2). Use the tag system, or have the 1st round pit the teams against each other in the same area, but on their own "track" (like that MK II pit stage with dude burning on the catwalk in the background). Each player could have their own camera view (LAN/online friendly, maybe even have a split-screen option). Successive rounds would allow for a number of interesting options - losers final>winners final>GF, remaining health 2v1 tag fight, change opponents, etc. Whatever it is, It doesn't need to be (shouldn't be) competetive, but should be fun & safe (can freely try things without risk of embarrassment/deranking). That would promote learning while gaming & with friends (because watching isn't for everyone). A co-op mode that is story driven (maybe with RPG elements &/or daily challenges) that plays like a fighting game would be sick. Capcom's always impressing me with how they solve problems (modern controls), so I'm certain they could solve the co-op challenge, but it doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar & casuals need it. 1v1 & watching games is great for us tryhards, but to compete with other genres, FGs need to offer a mode to PLAY casually WITH friends.

[@RocketSlug]

Man I wish my friends were better about this. I play them pretty regularly in Melty, but they're such intuitive players that whenever I ask them what they did and why that worked they can't even remember what buttons they were pressing 😔

[@UltraChenTV]

Yeah. A lot of people cannot explain why they do what they do. It’s a very difficult thing to do for a lot of instinctual players. I’ve ran into that a lot, there are just some people who are really bad at explaining what it is they’re doing because they do it so naturally.

[@chimpmasterflex]

On a simple note, I usually only tend to play ranked for maybe the first month of a game, because that'll often be the only way to get good matches without having to use discord or w/e. After that I'm all in on player matches. The annoying part of ranked, is that there is often a big chunk of players who only get high from gimmicks and stuff, so you usually wind up having better casual matches with people in the middle-high ranks. On the point of your group play idea I think it's neat, but It either needs it's own ranking ladder, or should only give you "fight money". If it didn't have it's own ladder there's a blatant flaw that someone really good could carry a bunch of beginners, or lower skilled players into ranks they outright don't belong in. That not only messes up the normal ladder assuming they'd play ranked too, but well also the ranked listing. You could also maybe have it unlock colors or something exclusive, but not necessary as alternative incentives. Arcana heart 3 used to have a weekly ranking where you could unlock temporary colors so maybe there's even a way to incorporate that to give it some longevity.

[@UltraChenTV]

True, the thing is, though, the good player has to sit and watch the bad players play. Basically, if there are 4 players total, they’re only playing one out of every four matches. It’d be a VERY slow process and if the bad players are still losing their matches, they will be at a net loss regardless. That encourages the super good player to make the bad players play better, which is the whole idea in the first place. ^_^

[@chimpmasterflex]

@@UltraChenTV I've learned not to underestimate how down bad people can be when it comes to rank/points. If there is a way for people to "exploit" a system like that, they'll do their damnedest to do it lol. That sort of view is a bit more reasonable though. Dota 2 has a coaching option, where you can draw on the map, or ping out items and such to your friend/person you are watching. While a direct translate to fighting games would be hard, I think it'd be neat if there was a way to do something similar too.

[@UltraChenTV]

You’re not wrong. LOL! I’m sure people more clever than me would figure out a way to abuse it. Hahaha.

[@sabishiihito]

I just watch JPN player's streams and ask them questions (in Japanese of course).

[@alvinmercado6305]

Ehh I don’t agree all I did was watch high level play back when I learned