Unban These Commander Cards - EDH Players Can Handle It! | MTG Discussion

[@ThatMillGuyShaf]

Let me make my stance clear: I would say alot cards are on the ban list for reasons the format is out grown Do they need to come off? No, especially if they WOTC doesn't believe there's a way to monetize them Are there worse cards legal in the format tho? 100%

[@perkcg]

These cards were banned for their shenanigans at the Time? Imagine having all the tools. Yah of course there would be powerful decks. However if you have access to all… just imagine the brews that would come about to counter those decks. Just saying 😊

[@sabersaurus7018]

I think you just made a good case to ban more cards, not unban more, or stick all of these in bracket 4.

[@chasm9557]

I think that bringing back "banned as a commander" could be okay for Braids Cabal Minion, Griselbrand, and maybe even Nadu Winged Wisdom. I've also thought about adding "banned as companion" for Lutri the Spellchaser but I don't think it would make it okay since there are plenty of ways to bounce back creatures and reuse its effect repeatedly in blue, but I do think it's worth a serious conversation weighing the pros and cons of that if they would ever bring back "banned as" in commander.

[@UpgradeBob]

Assuming that people aren’t gonna cheat out sylvan primordial and are gonna full cost in commander is kinda wild.

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

Assuming it’s going be one per player too when blink exists

[@orgazmo686971]

@@Dark-Pikachu1 Assuming that other creatures aren't a problem when blink exists...

[@imaginarymatter]

You can already cheat out things like Blightsteel Colossus or Worldgorger Dragon.

[@dartiswright4925]

@@UpgradeBob if there game plan is to cheat out Sylvan Primordial, they were already cooked lol

[@damonlouis6536]

I played when it was legal along side prime time. I do believe they got banned at the same time. The game revolved around them in a negative way. It's much fairer now but still does exactly what you want in, ramp while while removing perms. wouldn't be an issue at all if it couldn't hit lands

[@Marcosomos]

Cancel this man right now, he's getting full mad, deranged... utterly unhinged

[@NewFemtex]

Braids is banned for being miserable to play against when you get her out turn 1-2 because you're forcing everyone to sacrifice (or not play) their only land each turn It's a pretty slow and miserable game when a player Dark Rituals out a Braids turn 1.

[@sir_quirkus7206]

was just about to say this. he has clearly never played against a braids deck and it shows. now i say we unban leovold! FREE LEOVOLD lol

[@dartiswright4925]

@@sir_quirkus7206 Why is the illusion of choice okay with Leovold but braids an is the problem?

[@chasm9557]

I'd be okay with bringing back "banned as a commander/companion" and allowing Braids, Griselbrand, Lutri, and (potentially, but not convinced) Nadu.

[@scottganiere523]

So blue braids into blightsteel is ok

[@dartiswright4925]

@@scottganiere523 It's because people have fridget spinner attention spans.

[@niko3876]

I remember the time before the primordial ban, it gets so fun with deadeye and dual type lands, and then flickering it 3-4 times to remove 9-12 lands from your opponents And the prophet of kruphix meta was basically everyone plays at least green and blue, and then stack their decks with clones so everyone has a prophet and the only time you're not casting stuff is your own turn

[@purpl3nurgle]

"Dies to removal" is a bad argument to unban a card. Especially Prophet of Crufix which is in blue so players can use all the counter spells in the game, they can hardcast the expensive ones if they wanted. From there, they just monopolize 3/4ths of the gametime taking actions on everyone elses turn. It needs to stay banned.

[@joned1000]

Primordial isn’t a problem on its own, you’ve clearly never been in a blink lock where one player destroys all lands and has a combo to ETB infinitely and shut everyone else down without a proper wincon

[@dimitriid]

Hot take: Your average commander player can't handle anything beyond monogreen pauper: anything beyond that will sooner or later result in salty crying so I don't think it's useful to waste time on unbanning when considering edh player, just qualify this as 'These should go directly to Tier4/CEDH bracket' so they have some reassurance they won't touch their precious casual tables.

[@perkcg]

Griselbrand 😈

[@mazdab5454]

Fully agree. The super casual people will cry at any unbans, which I don't understand, no one if forcing them to run these cards. It's ironic that the ones who gatekeep the format are the casual player's usually. No one is stopping u from playing slow boring magic but please don't remove the fast powerful things just because it's not your vibe.

[@alexanderficken9354]

this sure is a hot take of all time

[@TeethMeat-jm8ou]

Craterhoof behemoth is an 8 mana, sorcery speed that many people consider an "i win" card and it's fine. Unban coalition victory.

[@sir_quirkus7206]

yeah! and ban thoracle! lol

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

Do not unbanned Coalition Victory let’s just let wizard print a 7 mana enchantment, that said whenever you draw a card except one in your draw set draw a addition cards, when draw 7 or more cards in one turn you win the game

[@MarioJPC]

Coalition Victory has more upside now with Leyline of the Guildpact, but it is 8 mana as you say. And with the Thasa's Oracle and all it stuff legal is absurd.

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

Do not unbanned Coalition Victory let’s just let wizard print a 7 mana enchantment, that said whenever you draw a card except one in your draw set draw a addition cards, when draw 7 or more cards in one turn you win the game

[@musiclistener13]

Yeah the leyline helps but you have to have it in your opening hand, otherwise it's honestly better to use prismatic omen or ramp for the actual lands. And 8 mana......that's an arm and a leg, and have to a 5 color creature, and then SORCERY SPEED, if this was unbanned and you lose to this, I will laugh at you.... and I will not apologize, that is entirely you and your pods fault

[@Y00bi]

>It's Simic >It's restrictve. Tell me you don't play commander without telling me you don't play commander. Like every fucking table has two people in U/G

[@Minervastouch]

Prophet of kruphix does it all in one card and simic players are there to play creatures, ramp, and draw cards and this card lets you take a turn... EVERY TURN. I'ts time equity. One player hogging too much time on the table adding to the game length by constantly saying "before your turn ends" or "in response" after every action/end phase etc. Just like prime time everyone wants a copy or control of it. It warps the game. At least with Orrery you need additional cards and/or generally have limited resources.

[@jonaswilliams9755]

"Simic players are doing enough busted stuff already" So why unban Prophet and give them another busted thing to do?

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

I seen tables top standard no

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

Just no

[@Nyronus]

The condition for Coalition Victory to win is "You have a five color commander and a good mana base" Which is, if expensive monetarily, a shockingly low bar to meet, deck constraint wise. Also, you're already playing 5 color, meaning you need color fixing, which often takes the form of ramp, in Ramp: The Format: 8 mana is a lot, but most players are gonna have access to that by turn 6 or 7. Also, it's high cost means people will probably have spent their instant speed interaction already to deal with whatever degen nonsense the rest of the table is up to. Sandbagging and blowing the table out in the final inning is a pretty effective strat. It is, essentially, an incredibly free 1-card combo for most 5-color commanders that decides the game on a coinflip. I think people will not be happy to see it once they've lost to it a few times.

[@pierredupont1096]

I don't know if there's even an expense argument with all the common lands with basic types, and the variety of non ABUR dual types. And the creature can be something like COaliton Golem (?) whic his colorless but has 5 colors. The only issue with CV is it costs 3WUBRG...which is a lot. And that's why it's safe to unban.

[@Y00bi]

You never pay 7 Mana for Sylvan Primordial. You're cheating it out really early in the game. It fetches THREE non-basic Forests. And you know what I'm gonna do immediately after that? Flicker it until my opponents have no lands.

[@alexanderficken9354]

sylvan primordial is so much more powerful than terastodon you are tweaking

[@dartiswright4925]

Rumor has it that braids is banned because Sheldon got put in a braids bitterblossom lock

[@korytoombs886]

Prophet isn't banned because of power. It turns games into one person playing for 30 mins on everyone's turn. Please leave it banned just for that reason. Solitaire cards aren't run.

[@pierredupont1096]

This. It just turns into "Flash in Cloud of Faeiries, untap two lands, flash in Elvish Draw a card, draw, play a Gilded Drake to get your Commander you jsut cast." And then....AGAIN on anoteh rturn.

[@thomaswalters597]

Unban Sylvan primordial... can't take you seriously.

[@crisgon9552]

Keeping Prime Time banned and saying Sylvan and Prophet be unbanned is crazy haha

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

@@crisgon9552prime titans deserve it too blink isn’t what everyone thinks about it and I don’t get it acting like these cards won’t ETB more then once

[@Y00bi]

​@@Dark-Pikachu1 Prime Time would come off the banlist first. Neither of them should, because they'd both immediately be put into every single green deck that wants to play big creatures anyway or cheats shit out. Not even taking flickering out. Prime Time is 6 land ramp in Henzie for 5 mana.

[@arc_flash658]

Yarok players salivating at the thought of Sylvan Primordial being Unbanned.

[@jacksonlawson1025]

The issue with sylvan primordial is that there are a million ways to get it onto the battlefield before turn 7 as well as being able to copy, recur or flicker it. Although I don’t know how much other cards there are like it that are unbanned still. Also sundering titan being artifact suffers from the same thing. One that comes to mind is Mithras tamer of mak fawa which gives artifacts unearth for three so you get two activations of sundering Titian super early depending on mana rocks and ramp.

[@domicci4460]

With the first one your lost my guy have you played commander at all against sultai blink recursion

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

Do not UNBAN anything. BAN more!

[@verysmallTK]

As someone who plays the unbanned black braids. Getting to draw 3+ cards per turn from turn one is arguably more powerful but also more socially acceptable

[@XenithShadow]

12:50 braids was specifically banned cause of how she played as a commander, she was on the banned a commander list. The specific play patern she has that is problematic is you got first no one has a turn 1 play your dark ritual her out on turn 2 and win the game on the spot. As at the time she was banned spot removal was pretty much never run, this means she eat everyones lands every turn.

[@johnparkin7872]

Braids in the command zone is disgusting. Turn 1-2 most games with fast mana and rituals. Let her stay banned

[@damonlouis6536]

wish banned as a commander was still a thing

[@Aquatos00]

I also really badly want to cast an angel's grace when someone casts a coalition victory

[@Asmodean1111]

Until people get to be fine with lands blowing up, prime time gets to stay jailed.

[@godzilla660]

I just want braids back so i can put her in my braids deck

[@PALIGames]

ive been Primortial blink cloned before and it sucks, but to be fair there are a lot more permanents you control gain hexproof cards now then back then

[@VirusVescichetta]

A lot of these are banned because they're miserable to play against. Even Coalition Victory was mostly banned for the sake of it being fairly easy to cheat out and winning the game out of nowhere. I feel like this is vastly underestimating how easy it is to have every basic land type and creature colour covered before you play Fist of Suns with Pact of Negation in hand.

[@imaginarymatter]

I think the only argument against Coalition Victory isn't power but ubiquity. Any WUBRG deck can easily fetch up all 5 basic land types with green ramp to meet the land requirement and meet the creature requirement with their commander -- so any WUBRG deck can run it as a wincon without building around it. I don't think it should be banned because of this reason and it should be unbanned, but there is a reason it can stay on the ban list.

[@samedi7470]

But the same could be said about Bolas Citadel and Sensei‘s Diving Top and aetherflux reservoir as a „i win the game“ combo that fits in every black deck. But it doesn‘t go in every Bx Deck because its a boring play pattern.

[@swain1153]

That’s a 3 card combo, coalition victory essentially wins by itself

[@sebastianci5271]

"It won't be played if unbanned" ... thats so inherintly wrong it literally goes from 0 to something lol

[@ohhai333]

Without Flash in the format, 1 & 2 are pretty safe. Hell if that brings back Bribery in the format I'm all for it.

[@baileylaviolette543]

Right off the bat i already strongly disagree. Sylvan Primordial warps the game around it in the same way Prime Time does. It becomes "The Best" thing to be doing if you're in green. If i could only hit nonbasic lands, then sure. But you can go full degenerate with this thing by blink or reanimating it, and 7 mana is chump change in monogreen.

[@PorygonPowahZ]

I honestly don't want to see Primordial, Primeval, or Titan unbanned as long as Dead Eye is in for format. Simic doesn't need them back.

[@tsuki7064]

To answer your question, I think the most likely unban is prophet of kruphix. Yes it is a strong card, no it wouldnt enter top 100 strongest cards in edh if it were unbanned today. There are 10s of cards that untap your things on everyones turns and 100s of them that allow flash speed on your spells (might be slight exaggeration, but still a lot) the card isnt doing anything new and assembling a 2 card combo that does the same thing isnt that difficult. Im already on the belief that it wasnt banned because of its sheer power, it was banned because its too boring to play against since prophet player does a lot of playing. On that argument, why not ban winter orb, static orb, armageddon, etc. These cards also make it so that that player plays a lot more than other players? And if it is based on raw power, I can list a bunch of cards like necropotence, sol ring, ad nauseam, demonic tutor, etc here but instead I will just say thassas oracle and will not elaborate. People should play more interaction instead of not playing interaction than losing to a card and crying witch. Prophet of kruphix is a fine card for the format. Strong, but fine

[@cdude665]

i agree primordial needs to be unbanned but saying its underwhelming is absolutley insane. Their are so many way to abuse it. You can flicker it so many times and just end the game

[@tzarkasym8825]

Coalition Victory can be turn 3 win. Leyline of the Guildpact 1 land, sol ring, arcane signent 2 land, timeless lotus 3 land, any 3 mana or less creature, coalition victory Sure any can be countered, but that is anything. Leyline of the Guildpact makes Coalition Victory a stay on banlist as a given.

[@randy5606]

Nah keep coalition victory banned. We don't need alternate win cons. In fact ban more alternate win cons

[@sambrown9475]

Definitely prime time and golos and possibly sylvan primordial

[@Y00bi]

Prime Time and Slyvan Primordial cannot be taken off the banlist because it's a fucking ETB trigger and not a cast trigger. Prime Time could be errated to say basic but it just says land. Same with Golos, I've never see a Golos first ETB fetch a land to fix for golos it's always some utility card like Field of the Dead. What happens with Prime Time and Slyvan Primordial is the mechanic that breaks basically every creature with a good ETB, the fucking mistake that was flickering.

[@domicci4460]

One permanent that turns into 2 3 4 5 when they start blinking it turn 3 because they cheated it out its not hard to cheat out and having etb destroy 3 permanents is ridiculous or you can turn 2 it for 8 life with reanimate its not healthy and shouldnt be in commander it makes the game near impossible to play into if they cheat it out early

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

Urbog hello 👋 you guys have zero lands 😆 9:14

[@Lord_lost13]

For everybody saying that you know, Sylvan primordial should stay banned because of combos that should not be a basis for banning you can abuse nearly every card in the format to great extent. You have to look at these cards at face value don’t let past experiences and combos muddy up your opinion on a card.

[@courtneyparish964]

Besides jlo and crypt I really want Iona, griselbrand, tinker, yawgmoths bargain and Tolarian academy unbanned.

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

12:01 ok but die removal is kinda lame are telling me 10/10 someone going have it when I see it first creature was one that gave everything hexproof

[@DirtyDog97]

5:08 You can grab dual lands! 🤩

[@iceygamingrulez]

Lutri should be allowed to be a commander

[@adriano7444]

You do realize you can flick Sylvan Primordial, right? cheating in play is also very common. If he enters turns 7 that's a non-issue. If he enters turn 3 and destroys 3 lands + ramps you 3... that's out of control.

[@dartiswright4925]

@@adriano7444 sounds like you utilizing fast mana ie: Mana Vault, etc which means you are playing at a power level where there should be acceptable to EXPECT people to have answer's

[@adriano7444]

@@dartiswright4925 "You play at high power levels" T1: Land -> Mana Dork T2: Land -> Sol Ring -> Explosive Vegetation T3: Land -> Sylvan Primordial That was 3 dollars worth of cards. "People should have answers" Yes, everyone is playing monoblue control, and holding mana for counterspell at turn 3

[@daltronius]

I tbink you are vastly underplaying the primordial, yes if all u do is cast it once, it ramps for 3 while settinge eryone else back a turn, then u blink it, or copy it , or bounce it, and it completely destroys the game.

[@daltronius]

Not to mention going "this effect is strong, and this effect is strong, so the card that has a slightly weaker version of both for the cost of one is not busted" is an awful arguement. Yea seedborn is strong and so is the artifact, but guess whats even stronger than a two card combo to cast stuff instant speed, a one card combo that foes it for creatures.im not saying it cant come back, but your arguement was awful for it.

[@cmghaman1712]

Was at a 6 player game.. player a managed to get sylvan primodial out on turn 4, player b clones it. Player c cast another clone.. the last 3 player basically have to scope, after losing 3 lands.. worst card to unban. You lose just because u lose dice roll.. # true story

[@bazzam429]

Okay Boomer, when was that? 2007?

[@damonlouis6536]

i've seen similar games, you don't need the second clone to be op

[@170skeith]

I've tried to make multiple commander decks to tutor out coalition victory and use it asap and I have not been able to get it to go off a single time. It's way too slow and janky to be a big problem and if someone does manage to make it go off then everyone was playing like absolute garbage

[@MajraMangetsu]

Before the video: Sway of the Stars.

[@swain1153]

This is outta pocket

[@DylanHunter64]

Your explanation of CV is exactly why it should be banned. A card that can literally ONLY win the game or literally do nothing is terrible gameplay and design and either outcome feels crappy for the people involved

[@alexanderjosefsson4729]

I really really hope they dont unban anything keeping the format like it was

[@imaginarymatter]

Sundering Titan is fine to unban since so many lands don't have land types now. Cards like Ruination are probably far more destructive and they are perfectly fine.

[@damonlouis6536]

titan is fine in 1v1 because you might hit your own lands. in multiplayer it's basically one sided

[@Comopyon]

I've been saying to my friends that Coalition Victory should be unbanned. If they can successulfully resolve the win the game effect, they deserve the win.

[@Y00bi]

I think the biggest problem with it is that it's a Sorcery and almost every other 'Win the game' card like this is on a permanent except the very telegraphed Approach of the Second Sun.

[@CanadianBaconPwnage]

Give me Sundering Titan or give me death. There's alot of good dual lands now that don't have basic land types, and I wanna blow up basics, Shocks, Triomes, and Surveil lands. Punish people for jamming fetches and good typed land (including me).

[@shenryu]

You can tell he's never had a braids hit turn 1 or 2 in his life lol...

[@hellNo116]

here me out. prime ti is the best card to unban, but not for casual... it will benefit cedh a lot. if not prime ti sylvan primordial did get punished for the sins of prime titan. so if we keep cards ban for casual i would agree that we shouldn't unban prime ti, however, we have lion's eye, mox diamond, mox opal, and so many others broken af cards. we should use rule zero for prime ti

[@bebits3173]

I think braids stays on the list becasue you can turn 0 her and sac a land.

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

3:35 ok blink exist it’s never going be just one permanent for each player lamo

[@domicci4460]

The ramp is insane turn 2

[@willharris1488]

I want them to unban lutri sooooo bad I still sometimes run an Alania deck and it would be soooo sweet getting a quad copy of expropriate I cheat out

[@DylanHunter64]

Ain't no way, every card you included on here is for click bait can't fool me lmao

[@aduinoch]

Unban Lutri, just don't allow companion

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

8:08 I will play titan because it isn’t MLD we need some land hate in EDH

[@DerpHerper]

Good riddance to Coalition Victory. It's got no place in the game. Anywhere it works it's punching down on pods not prepared for it. For any pod that is prepared it's a bad card. Has literally nowhere it should actually be played. It's the best ban on the list. I think you're forgetting who the list is for: It's not your pod. It's for new/lower power players trying to navigate the format. When you remember that context the banlist is terrific. Imagine running into any of these cards as a new player with some random precon. You'd never play again.

[@jkx349]

Unban all of the silver cards

[@hardhittamtg]

Let me have my otter!

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

This person like ETB are once lamo you know it’s going ETB 4 times

[@gzzuss]

Unban prime time 😅, also unban everything that is not inherent broken because of multi-player format

[@hollow2351]

I just love primival titant

[@parkerbrantley4356]

Sundering titan won't ever get unbanned

[@davidblakley6806]

Give me PrimeTime!

[@TonyRakdos]

Unban lutri. My boy did nothing wrong

[@VvVLuffyM2]

Just unban crypt dock and jlo

[@joshfinch7041]

give me prophet of kurphix

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

Do not unbanned Coalition Victory let’s just let wizard print a 7 mana enchantment, that said whenever you draw a card except one in your draw set draw a addition cards, when draw 7 or more cards in one turn you win the game

[@TheBigIntellectual]

Hard Disagree on Braids, cabal Minion

[@scottganiere523]

Says the guy crying about bans ban fury ban grief rember those videos

[@scottganiere523]

Un ban grief and fury in modern

[@sordieo]

Unban dockside, besides that idk

[@HerbChao14xs]

Paradox Engine for me, and I'd be ok with Tolarian Academy too. Braids (the Black one) I think would still be too oppressive though and feel that should be remain banned (until someone can show me a fun way they've built it like I will with Paradox Engine)

[@Hashbrown1682]

*FREE MY BOI GOLOS AND LUTRI*

[@sonork]

Bans are fine, still 1000s of other cards to choose from.

[@justinchase6666]

Give me back my 15 mana win the game eldrazi commander

[@Preaplanes]

I'd rather not.

[@DirtyDog97]

Unban Black Lotus, the Moxes, Ancestral Recall, Library of Alexandria, and Karakas.

[@VulcanGray]

Library, ok. What do the rest of them do for the format?

[@pbailed8007]

I agree, except Karakas.

[@DirtyDog97]

@@VulcanGray It's just wild to see them played!

[@damonlouis6536]

karakas no but yes to sahahrazad and chaos orb

[@tsuki7064]

Unpopular opinion here, coalition victory should stay banned, because it can be a lot better than it seems. Like its an instant win card and all you require is 8 mana, 5 land types (fetches, shocks and triomes makes this trivial because it doesnt say 5 seperate lands or 5 basic lands) and a 5 color creature (again, doesnt say 5 seperate creatures and there are very few 5 color commanders that arent actually 5 colors so only your commander fulfills this most of the time). This is, as demonstrated, a lot easier to do than might initially seem. I mean yes if you kill the 5 color creature in response it doesnt do anything, and Im not against coalition victory being played. Im against coalition victory being played in a game where only blue gets spell interaction (and a teeny tiny bit blue but cmon)

[@shaunbeckett9475]

Yeah but you just names like 3 check boxes to pull it off 1 card and 2 mana says no

[@joned1000]

Thorical exists but a 8 mana “I win” is busted? Ok…

[@nickd6303]

For coalition victory the hard part is getting the creature check requirment.

[@domicci4460]

Not realy

[@philnagle9024]

All valid

[@bazzam429]

People are fear mongering old cards like they are that good in commander now. 🙄. You are clearly right and I think the community needs to stop taking the "It was banned for a reason" argument, and actually test out and see how these cards play out unbanned.

[@VulcanGray]

Green doesn't need such good removal

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

Lutri.

[@DylanHunter64]

Ban as companion!

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

@@DylanHunter64 Full Unban. It is time.

[@DylanHunter64]

@@ReyaadawnMTG Oh God, no. Never lol never happening, never should

[@MultiKbarry]

@@ReyaadawnMTG Izzit colors don’t need a free 101st card.

[@calebthecondor]

I dont play commander much but it seems like he’s cooking

[@davidhowell1415]

Golos

[@Rizso1]

i want recurring nightmare

[@damonlouis6536]

It's not even the second best reanimator spell and we have tons of grave hate in all colors now

[@chayadol]

At first I thought that silly to just said kill Braids!? Then I realize as Sheoldred player, your oppor see your plan miles aways. So yeah I agree Braid ahould be unban lol