FMJ, why it's not the ammo you should be stocking up. Uncomfortable Truths

Today we take a spicy take on why I'll never recommend full metal jacket (FMJ) as an option for defensive use. I believe a lot of the reason FMJ is so highly recommended is misunderstood performance and what you really get for terminal ballistics. So strap in this video is almost as uncomfortable as my prepping truths videos. #wrol #prepared #preparedness #prepper #shtf #teotwawki #minutemen #prepping #preppergear #firearmstraining #guns #firearms #prepperguns #ar15 #m193 #m855 #m855a1 #mk262 #fmj #minutemenrifle #handgun #9mmnato #556nato #762nato #m80ball #230gr
Affiliates of the channel:
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[@leereoder]

FMJ has been getting the job done in Chicago for years.

[@whisper8742]

It's failed in a few calibers, big time...

[@nathancummins8728]

Most gunshot victims live

[@user-anc123]

@@nathancummins8728because most criminals are bad shots

[@user-anc123]

@@whisper8742other types of rounds fail other calibers too

[@Sageofthe16]

@@nathancummins8728 only if its a pistol...

[@airborneivan]

I completely disagree. People stockpile thousands of FMJ because it's cheaper, it's the most common, and still very effective. In 2024, 99% of people (including myself) dont have the disposable income to stockpile "defensive rounds." My suggestion is to get more accurate. The type of bullet doesn't matter if you can't hit what you want, where you want. Shot placement is far more important than bullet selection.

[@unclefreedom213]

hence my comment in the video about why fmj is important. It makes sure you don't miss with your defensive loads

[@airborneivan]

@unclefreedom213 I think you're too hung up on this defensive load stuff. Some of it is great, don't get me wrong, but I think you're doing a disservice to your audience by telling them FMJ's are not a viable option. Especially when you consider the current economic state and what's actually commonly available. No potential threat is going to care what ammo you used after getting shot in the face. Again, shot placement is everything. Training is key.

[@WillPerry-ez9rn]

@@airborneivan "Man, I sure am glad that guy is shooting at me with just regular ol' ball ammo!" lol Don't get me wrong, I love this guy's videos and his opinion on things, but @UncleFreedom I think the idea of defensive loads is kind of irrelevant - longevity, in my opinion, is far more desirable in any SHTF scenario... I have never been shot at, never served or anything like that. But I do know for a fact that anyone that has been shot at, probably wasn't thinking to themselves "Oh shit, i really hope that guy isn't using 77gr Mk262 black hills ammo". I also do not think most of us civilians would be able to shoot sub MOA groups at 100yds under immense stress of being fired at.... I'd rather have 10,000 rounds of M855 than 5,000 of the gucciest ammo available.

[@tacticalbt1023]

Exactly

[@Ferd414]

@@WillPerry-ez9rn WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!! In spades! Got multiple flavors of ammo on hand - The key is putting shots on target. Everything else is meaningless jabber. Punch holes that let the blood fall out. Mission accomplished. Doesn't matter if it's 20-30 cents (OK, OK, so inflation made that number obsolete before I even hit "post") a shot FMJ, or the latest, greatest, ultra-mega-mondo super-duper 10 dollars per round ammo.

[@dannygreen5878]

A hollow point usually makes one hole, a fmj usually makes two holes. Which one will bleed out faster. End of argument.

[@hatfieldmccoy0311]

I hear what you are saying, and if it works for you great, but what I saw in Iraq and Afghanistan and the insurgents, they got the job done with bolt action rifles and dirty trashy rounds because they knew and used the terrain and quick hits in guerilla warfare. So my stockpile of clean packaged cared for ammunition will do me just fine. I respect your thoughts though for sure

[@Sageofthe16]

think of what they can do now that they have 1billion worth of high quality arms from the usa. i bet we left alot of ammo too. we probably left it so they would kill each other with it

[@unclefreedom213]

@Sageofthe16 yet we went hand across America because some guy lost his canteen or getting counseling because I "misplaced" a headspace&timing gauge for the M2

[@Sageofthe16]

@unclefreedom213 from what i understood, the guys who were in Afghanistan were told to leave personally issued gear, and not worry about it, only to get billed for it after returning home.

[@gunsnwater2668]

​@Sageofthe16 no we left it because Joe Biden is totally incompetent and Millie is a traitor.

[@gunsnwater2668]

​@@unclefreedom213never lose sight of the fact it was just another civilian temporarily in a uniform who endorsed and enforced all that. 👍🤔

[@RevGunn-jq3cq]

Hundreds VS. Thousands I will always choose more ammo😊

[@user-fj7vm9fz2h]

Problem with thousands. Who is going to carry this weight out. In a vehicle maybe. But different guns; different calibers. It’s ALL weight. If SHTF carry a mag or two for 2/3 firearms and bury the rest secretly. If you’re still alive you can get ammunition and maybe upgrades. It all comes down to weight. I’d rather carry an extra canteen of water on hikes.

[@FatYokel]

@@user-fj7vm9fz2h It's about continually training not carrying it all.

[@im2lost]

​@@user-fj7vm9fz2h been saying that for decades.. Why stockpile thousands of ammo for SHTF scenario when you can only carry a couple of pounds worth.

[@larryh311]

@@im2lostIn SHTF, you wouldn’t want to be alone, so having a stockpile would allow you to give some to friends, family members, neighbors, etc. in your clan who are less prepared and of course you can always barter for food, batteries or other items

[@christophernoia5197]

​@@larryh311plus, if you have the ability to bug in and it's the wiser choice for the scenario, you won't have to worry about moving it all. You'll have the extra stocked up. I do think it's smart to bury extra arms and ammo in case you have to bug out from your home for any reason. Having a hidden stash would really be beneficial.

[@AJohnSmith]

Stock both.

[@greggweeks3504]

Yep,always.

[@feoxorus]

With almost 30 years in treating GSWs in ERs I can tell you that a hole is a hole, and it's always bad. I have seen cases where a HP was used for a head shot and did not penetrate. The vast majority of head shots were using FMJ and it always did the trick. I also saw a lot of non-fatal fragmentation wounds on the thorax and abdomen, which pretty much makes me question the value of $1.50 a shot ammo. My practical experience says not much, especially for hardened targets, like a skull unless you T-box the bad guy. You do you but I'm not spending $35/box to train with my defensive ammo.

[@mtnmnkymilitia]

Spot on Doc, thanks!

[@ignaciovarga3162]

I love it when tech nerds get debunked by real life experience.

[@nikos6220]

First, thank you for your work in the ER and the countless lives you saved. Something I always wondered, do you get all the GSWs into your ER or is there a more benign subset with muscle tissue pass throughs that get treated somewhere else? Thx

[@michaelschweimler7292]

You show a great ammount of knowledge about the rounds ballistcs and pro and cons about this or that ammo . I appreciate you sharing that with us here and it is interesting. I see a small problem when people are getting lost in their religously believe in what works and what not works anymore just because something is a little better than the other .There is no doubt that hollowpoints are better regarding stopping power . I call myself halfway knowledgable when it comes to guns and ammo. In the end a hole is a hole and fmj will kill you as dead as every other bullet. And in every decent caliber fmj will always penetrate enough Fmj will kill and take you out the fight. especially in a shtf situation when no emergency room is working any more. First thing to have is a working gun and a bullet that will reliably go bang when you pull the trigger. Second is that the bullet needs to have the penetration to punch throu vital regions of the target which leeds to the main point - you gotta hit that spot. Everything else , all the benefits of expanding bullets etc are just a slight improvement . Yes , you should have premium self defense ammo in your personal firearms you should test it for reliability in your gun and you should have a couple boxes of it stashed. The other main reason why law enforcement and civilians are usig HP- ammo is that you do not want to hit bystanders because of overpenetration and legal reasons . For an shtf i would feel not undergunned if all i had was fmj .A quality fmj will always feed better and more reliable than any hollow point , it will penetrate obstacles better and it costs maybe a third.If I stash ammo for shtf - and i do in an - for me reasonable amount -it is quality brand fmj. I gues everybody does according to his prioritys . Chances are imho pretty good that in any realistic shtf situations most other things are of way more importance than that if my ammo is fmj or hp. You can have the best gun and gear and the newest technology gear but it will make no difference when a low life shoots you a .22 l.r. bulk pack round nose bullet into your backhead to get your stuff. Probably we will die of old age before we went trough the first box of our stashed ammo for shtf reasons. For me its having a reliable gun or a couple , practise with it on a regular base and to have a certain ammount of reliable ammo stored. Then i call it done. To many others things to do.

[@damonharrington2948]

Good info doc

[@gregwilliams5820]

I'll bet that the guy that gets hit with that FMJ is going to say he shot me and it wasn't a hollow point.

[@damonharrington2948]

😂😂😂

[@thomaswalsh5097]

And you win the common sense award…..Thank you.

[@swiftbear]

Right, its the same thinking that says "don't carry a 22LR " I've yet to find people willing to get shot by it.

[@wtcfirstresponder7959]

What about the kid on the other side of him when it goes right through him?

[@Jason_The_Man]

Hmmm 🤔. I suppose if you have the funding for thousands of round of Federal Hydro-Shok or whatever your favorite flavor is this is not bad advice. That said, if it’s a matter of having 500 rounds stocked vs 5,000…. I’d say go with the 5,000

[@Dragon.Slayer.]

5000 gives you more opportunities to practice

[@carlosanderson6725]

If I am 1. Reacting to contact, or 2. Breaking contact, it is on minimal consequence which ammo I am using. I don't expect my girls to be making shots outside of 100M. The biggest threat I see us reacting to is getting away from the city. Covering fire cares not if its 55 grain or 62 grain, getting off the X is my concern.

[@ignaciovarga3162]

Shot placement is what truly matters. Everything else is bull shit.

[@unclefreedom213]

true shot placement is paramount but I'll still take better bullet design with great placement

[@hondaservicecenter]

​@@unclefreedom213how many people have you killed? What works best?

[@hondaservicecenter]

Were you in military? Id number? I can see how many confirmed kills you have

[@hopebrowning6300]

Sure it is..nerves are shot , BP up, fear , adrenalin up, lead flying at you in all directions.. No such thing as shot placement druring that time .everyone think they are or gona be a Rambo or like on tv..

[@billyholman4495]

@@hopebrowning6300 All the more reason to have 10,000 rounds of fmj rather than 2,000 rounds of mk262. No one ever wished for less ammo in a fight.

[@leemauser6107]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. FMJ is not about "that's what the military uses and it's good enough for them". Same can be said about the AR platform and the 5.56 everyone seems to be so obsessed with. Most people get one because it is the caliber Uncle Sam uses and the AR looks similar to an M4. More or less exactly what was being griped about on FMJ. The AR is far from the most ideal. Lowest bidder is so called for a reason. When you can't just use the 203, LAW, M136, or hose a doorway to keep the targets pinned down so you can call in CAS, that seems to be the infantry SOP, then it's limitations become real clear. We be civilians, not NATO. We must rely on direct bullet contact. I don't have FMJ because it is the cheapest or it's what the military uses. Or because, "I'm uneducated or set in my ways"....... I use it because it is the most reliable out of my weapon systems I have, A 200gr FMJBT will kill you just as dead as the wonder bullets that transfer 10,000% of the earths energy during a solar eclipse while mercury is in retrograde when put into the target at an obtuse angle. And it will do it well past the range that the 5.56 becomes a 22lr. I'm not impressed by the new garbage. Plus I'm too damn old to go out and spend several thousand on new weapons and probably $80,000 on half a million rounds of modern ammo and spare parts. I'm trained and effective with what I have and got enough ammo and parts to last a long while. But just wait 20-30 years. Everything you got stocked up on and are crowing about will be replaced by the kids with the newest rifle and bullet combo that is far superior to all others. And someone will say the exact same thing that you said on why you shouldn't get the older stuff. And if anyone actually thinks a FMJ is inferior, ineffective, or obsolete. Stand down range.

[@miha-xm5hd]

"And if anyone actually thinks a FMJ is inferior, ineffective, or obsolete. Stand down range." EXACTLY! Forget criticizing someone's 9mm or rifle ammo stocks....all of that is easy to kill/disable with. Sh!t, today's pellet guns can do some good damage. Most of these experts have not been shot to honestly say it doesn't matter what you get shot with.

[@daleharvey3278]

Is it ok if I use wheel weight lead in .45colt and 45-70? I do have other stuff but it's just hunting and varment stuff . Ball ammo I have may even be corrosive.

[@leemauser6107]

@@daleharvey3278 Cast for big heavy slow bullets is fine for shorter ranges. It beats harsh language or a rock. I use a lot or cast LRN for subsonic .308, where jacketed is an unnecessary extra cost. 45Colt isn't a long range cartridge, 45-70 really isn't either. Cast will kill something just as dead as any bullet if placed properly. If it's what you got then go for it. If the 45-70 will kill an 1,800lb cape buffalo then it should take anything ya want. And lots of people in the old days were dispatched with a 45colt.Just don't expect any anti armor or barrier capability.

[@hopebrowning6300]

Lol

[@billyholman4495]

@@daleharvey3278 Most wheel weights *used* to be lead, but a lot of them are aluminum now, so make sure it is lead and I would suggest adding around 2-3% Antimony and the same of Tin by volume. This should give you a solid hard-cast lead bullet that will work better at higher velocities and help prevent leading. I would recommend using a copper gas check for the .45-70 if you intend to bump up velocity past around 850-900 fps. Haven't dealt with it in a while so there may be better options available than what i've mentioned here.

[@Paulie705]

Hate to break it to you brother, FMJ is very effective. The problem with it is that it's effective on anyone and everything behind the target as well. When SHTF, most people arent gonna give a damn about people they dont know. Sounds shitty but thats the way it is and it aint changing

[@albertseifert6562]

No matter which round you like and stock, all that really matters is that you stop the threat. Everything else is not worrying about.

[@maximusX_]

friend is an ER nurse in chicago and she told me most deaths and serious life threatening injuries are from 9mm FMJ and 22lr. not saying it's good but it gets the job done.

[@michaelphipps4835]

Ok 1st off, let me say this…… you are blessed and highly favored if you don’t know or can’t understand the concept or circumstances why most “common “ people stockpile FMJ or whatever they can afford without the pleasure of being able to have deep pockets and buying a abundance of expensive rounds for every weapon In the house. I salutes you young man………. For the regular day to day Americans… please buy what you can afford don’t let anyone try to make you feel less armed or incompetent because you don’t have a team with deep pockets…… imagine stockpiling thousands of expensive ammunition and talking down on what they feel is less than themself just to “God forbid” get clapped In the noodle by a rusty .22 revolver with a bent fmj bullet….life is truly funny like that…..God bless America and stay humble and always be grateful for whatever you have.

[@Tmanowns]

This is the issue with getting into the numbers in the science too much. A fast bullet is a fast bullet. FMJ does damage because of the energy it dumps into the area AROUND the hole. That EPR you mentioned is 2.50 a round. It's better to have 5 times the ammo, than have ammo that, when it hits, does a bit more damage than the other, still lethal ammo.

[@unclefreedom213]

I mean I did say that it was a terrible financial decision. Yep shock works but the temp cavity and shock is much better with a round that always performs

[@airborneivan]

@Tmanowns thank you. Defensive Load's offer incremental performance increases just to do the same job where shot placement is of a much higher priority.

[@Tmanowns]

@unclefreedom213 it's always performing, it's just not NEARLY as effective. Right now, hollows are vital in a home defense and hunting scenario. No doubt about it, that in the event of a break in, you want them dead, and for you to not deal with the hassle of a lying survivor claiming something else happened. And the less rounds you put in them, the easier your defense case will be. In a SHTF situation, volume of fire is vital. Even if you're able to afford a lot of ammo, being able to afford 4 to 5 times as much is better. But, to each their own. You're financially able to afford more quality ammo, and that's awesome! But I know I would pick ammo that performs at 80%, with 2-3 times the stockpile. God bless, and thanks for the reply!

[@unclefreedom213]

@Tmanowns I will always advocate having better performing rounds in a gunfight I don't want marginal or it could do this or even the shot placement argument. I agree shot placement is paramount but you're not gonna 1 shot stop a guy in a running gunfight even in Sims force on force with highly competent accurate shooters. Low percentage shots and incapacitating shots are minimal even from 30 feet away. And this is with guys who've all seen the elephant, know what to expect and are pinpoint marksman. Shot placement goes right out the window on a two way range, so in my mind I would rather my primary ammo be as nasty as possible if I connect with thier hip joint, gut, thigh hell even thier arm. I'm all for having a ton of 193 I have close to 50k rounds of it but it is not and never will be my primary. Always love a good debate, thanks for being sporting about it vs most of what I get..... Grrrrrr you're wrong because I spent money on this ammo and the military uses it. Makes my day to have a good intelligent convo with yall. Cheers

[@benjaminstoute]

Fmjs will always be better at hard barrier penetration (ie cover or armor) than soft point or hollow point ammo because of penetration. That's why they use it in war. Expanding rounds are for civilian use because it functions better on unarmed and no cover targets. Use the right tool for the job. Both are good.

[@joesmo1899]

But, you don’t always want to kill in military tactics. If you wound some, others must stop fighting to try and provide aide. A wounded person on the battlefield can create more chaos. Often it can even leave the enemy psychologically wounded. Whereas, if someone was dead, all you can do is move on and continue fighting. This is a military tactic and FMJ is good at achieving this tactic.

[@unclefreedom213]

The we use 5.56 to wound has been debunked about a million times over. The military has never been and never will be trained to wound. This also assumes that whoever you're fighting gives a crao about thier wounded man. In the middle east they aren't us they would be just as apt to take the wounded rifle and continue fighting.

[@unclefreedom213]

people did this in ww2 and you know what we called what they did after the war?............ war crimes

[@joesmo1899]

Thanks for the reply, valid points!

[@wormwoodfive398]

I concur; although, have you seen anyone stopping to aid anyone lately

[@unclefreedom213]

@@wormwoodfive398 pretty much all OIS aid is rendered to the badguy doesn't get the same play time cause you know "narratives"

[@kobudo]

The same people who say “good enough for the government” are the same people who will swap out the trash mil-spec trigger in an AR before they even take it to the range.

[@lewis9888]

Put a Binary Trigger in it. Lol.

[@JohnDoeTheTroll]

Militaries know if you use FMJ, you're more likely to injure the enemy, which takes out more than one soldier in battle, because someone else has to drag the injured off the battlefield and tend to them medically, basically tying up 3 people instead of killing just one.

[@creakycracker]

Precisely my comment - so I see you beat me to it. Well done....

[@wisewhiterabbit]

bull shit. a wounded man can still potentially fight. end the threat, dead enemy is also demoralizing. make the risk exponentially higher than the reward.

[@JohnDoeTheTroll]

@@wisewhiterabbit I love when smooth brain people respond thinking they know everything.... It's a well known tactic, look it up!

[@wisewhiterabbit]

@@JohnDoeTheTroll it's also well debunked.

[@JohnDoeTheTroll]

@@wisewhiterabbit Mmk... if you say so

[@jakek09]

Its like this guy looked at every piece of wisdom related to prepping and decided "im going to be wrong"

[@iWinnipeg]

The delusion is thinking when the SHTF, you are suddenly going to be blessed with the skills of Wild Bill Hickok. Training is good, but nothing like the real thing. Real combat has a 10% hit ratio. That 300 rounds of expensive, premium ammo aren't going to last long when over 270 are going to end up in the bush.

[@unclefreedom213]

well with my previous life and current one not so worried about the stressor of a two way range.

[@fucore85]

Thank you… guntubers are getting cringe AF 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@hopebrowning6300]

Hp is better but I agree , everyone thinks they gonna be Rambo or the 5-10-up to 50 bad guys that surround them isn't going to have weapons and or shoot back ..or tv has spoilt them to think cover is walls or whatever with as small as a .22 will go through.. Reality is we all better hope it never comes to that loss of life is the wost possible thing and not to sound religious but we all should be pray to god peace for all and everyone gets along and helps eacother

[@unclefreedom213]

I was hoping the mindset videowould do better than it did I cover most of the real truth behind how it works

[@unclefreedom213]

I create educational content lol I wish I was a guntoober them boys make bank

[@ricblic901]

FMJ also have a tendency to tumble. Plus if you "poke a hole" in someone's chest cavity you probably collapsed a lung severed several major arteries in effect rendering the target neutralized. This what I was taught in basic training. Training with the M16 a 5.56 round and a 20 inch barrel which was accurate and deadly at 300 meters. The 300 meter target was used in testing and that's what the DI's were saying. Had no reason to doubt them.

[@gunsandsilver]

Stock food gear ammo gold/silver. Slowly.

[@kelshotss]

What are some good sites to get gold and silver

[@damonharrington2948]

@@kelshotssThere’s so many good spots. I personally use Silver Gold Bull. Easy ordering and fast shipping.

[@richardhansen342]

@@kelshotss US Mint has a list on their site but uou can also get both from Walmart or Costco shipped to your door.

[@darylturner8960]

I prefer brass and lead to gold and silver

[@gunsandsilver]

@kelshotss walmart works directly with bullion dealers free shipping good price.

[@rotadyma]

Basically, for every 200 rounds of FMJ I will buy, I will buy 100 rounds of quality self defense rounds. The reason is I train mostly with FMJ. But I also believe that FMJ will penetrate in certain situations where JHP will not. As a matter of fact, I stagger both types of ammo in each of my magazines that are loaded for SHTF. I have seen ballistic videos where JHP rounds did not penetrate deep enough into ballistic gel that was covered in a shirt and denim jacket. So, you won't hit vital organs if they are wearing a lot of heavy clothes. I think it's just good to have options when it comes to the rounds you stockpile, train with and use for SHTF.

[@tscoff]

I’ve done the same thing with my home defense gun and my every day carry gun. I’ve staggered FMJ and JHP rounds.

[@adamgrimes820]

I stockpile to get my reps in consistently through the year

[@2amichaelj]

124 grain NATO has been feeding pistol caliber weapons for the almost 3 dozen countries for years.

[@hopebrowning6300]

Yea and it sucks! Watch videos of vets and there stories of when they took there 45's and gave them m92's with the baby 9mm.and all the bad stories with they switch from .40 to 9mm how thousands wanted there .40's back because they worked way better

[@billyholman4495]

@@hopebrowning6300 Nobody ever asked for their .40 back, don't lie lol. The .40 is literally the worst of both worlds, it's a pathetically weak 10mm at best.

[@jimlong2469]

@@billyholman4495 Convert that 40 to 357 sig and you've got the best hammer in a small package there is.

[@rickengman]

I agree wholeheartedly... I use 55gr V-max as my Primary and have 55gr FMJ & 62gr Green Tip as Range Ammo and Ammo of last resort. Same with my 7.62, 165gr TGK as Primary and FMJ as Range/Backup Ammo. In 9mm I run 124gr Speer Gold Dots and FMJ as Range/Backup. I Zero my platforms with the good stuff and just deal with the irregularities of the FMJ at the Range.

[@user936]

23:05 Travis Haley mentions in his video on 4th April (The Bridge #14) that he was using that mark 262 ammunition during his now famous stand in Najaf. Starting around 1h 12m he talks about its effectiveness out to range through a 20" barrel and then his interviewee talks about the issues they had using it through 1-in-9 guns. Overall Travis was happy with the 800 rounds of it he left out and about.

[@RickSanchez167]

The US never signed the Hague Convention...... thats not why they dont use hollowpoints....

[@unclefreedom213]

correct we didn't but we did however fall in line. Also the gubmemt is cheap and and will simplify logistics perfect storm

[@RickSanchez167]

@@unclefreedom213 we did it because it was cheap, not because of the convention. My MK211 Raufoss rounds I used in Afghanistan are a prime example of us not abiding by the Hague Convention

[@unclefreedom213]

@RickSanchez167 you're still off base but probably not for the reason you think. I love the m107 and m82a1 and everyone loved the M2. The ammo Mk211, AP, APT, API, APIT, Ball, etc. We never followed any rule and neither does any other country in regards to 50 cars or 12.7 soviet or the 14s. So why is that? The heavy bored rifle and machine gun is a purpose built anit material rifle and ammo ecosystem. Do we use it only for that hell no, but I can tell you the 50 round is list in our inventory as anti material and not anti personnel.

[@jameskirk3]

There are some ok deals on bulk JHP handgun ammo. Its not some RIP round or a machined bullet, its basic, cast and plated JHP. FMJ isnt something i wanna be shot with. Especially not in a 357 or better. The cavitation in higher energy rounds will rearrange your insides, ball ammo or not.

[@brentfisk4549]

While i prefer HP's, FMJ's have done the job on battlefields for over a century now, including the two i spent where they got the job done. And if its a combat situation, you may need those FMJ's to punch thru objects to hit their intended targets.

[@petebrasco]

Have you tried the IMI 77gr sierra matchking hollow point? It’s the Razor Core Mod 1 (mk262 type).

[@unclefreedom213]

yes pretty solid, not the best SD so a little inconsistent in the load but overall moa capable and the bullet is good

[@bensherman8976]

Also the Hornady black are defensive rounds but the 62 grain 556/223 are not hp but will blow a hole in you like you wouldn't believe. The 75 grain is the hp but both grains are defensive round. I highly recommend the Hornady black series they kinda pricey but they will stop just about anything.

[@ROE675]

Reminds me of the scene from Armageddon where Steve Buscemi says we are sitting on 4 million pounds of fuel, one nuclear warhead and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts all made by the lowest bidder.

[@LAT-qk3vj]

😆

[@nicholasbilowsky2960]

I still prefer a monolithic extreme penetratration round. It's big heavy and doesn't deform on impact but leaves massive internal cavity

[@jacobackley502]

Depends on caliber. If you’re stockpiling 5.56 for your 16-20” barrel, m193 fmj is a violent fragmenting cartridge that also happens to be cheap. Also over stabilizing is a myth, a 1:7 twist vs a 1:12 twist will have no measurable impact on how your bullets will fragment in tissue. It will effect accuracy, however If you’re stockpiling 380, 32, 25, etc small cartridges, fmj is about the only projectile that will consistently penetrate enough to work well. If you’re stockpiling something like 308, 6.5 creedmoor, 30-30, fmj is not going to be significantly cheaper/more available than soft points. For service style pistols, 9mm, 40, 45, etc those are a wash. The difference in performance between fmj and jhp is pretty laughable. The amount of discussion and marketing that goes into jhps for these is insane when you can read reports from forensic pathologists that say that there is no discernible difference in actual wounds. The only calibers that you should actively avoid fmj are intermediate, non fragmenting rifle cartridges. 7.62x39, 300 blk, 6.5 Grendel, etc. In these rounds, fmj neuters them and is typically not significantly different in price than soft points. The fmjs are cheaper, but the price difference is worth the performance increase.

[@SmithGuy]

Would CCI speer Gold Dot soft point in 62gr be a good one to stock for defensive use?

[@jasonshults368]

Yes, and work very well for hunting as well.

[@ironmatic1]

stalk

[@bensherman8976]

I stack both. I do love Hornady black 75 grain HP. I got several thousand rounds of those at 1$ a pop. It get ridiculously expensive. I do have countless fmj rounds. Imho in shtf you use what you got next to you. I also came to the conclusion that some of the hp are not what they claim

[@Alberecht]

I'm just starting to train and was wondering if anyone knows if its better to stock 115 or 124 grain fmj. Haven't used 124 grain fmj, kind of doubt it feels any hotter based on manufacturer statistics. I would prefer training with ammo that challenges my grip more like +p ccw loads.

[@rico989]

For +p power try to get something that the fps is 1,200fps or says NATO like Winchester white box NATO will feel like +P rounds

[@Alberecht]

@@rico989 Many thanks

[@Johnny-jr2lq]

Okay okay so I get it you want the expansion. Okay what’s your thoughts on a 135 grain penta hollow point powder coated solid lead slug???? I ask because I have done some testing with this mold and it’s fairly effective. Obviously the reloader needs to use quality components. I can’t speak on 556 I’m still testing powder coated lead with that cartridge. I don’t think it will ever be able to compete against a copper jacket projectile. As far as speed is concerned but I’ll say this if shtf happened i sure wouldn’t want to get hit with one. Those mushroom real nice as well at around 1900 fps. As far as the m855 not being the absolute best. Yeah you most definitely correct however with that said. I have a mortgage payment I have a responsibility to make sure my refrigerator is full of food I need to make sure the utilities are all paid as well as 3.85 a gallon gas is in 2 vehicles every week. Right now is not the time to be telling people hay your ammo is only 70% effective. I’ll take 70% effective and have a metric F ton of it over 100% effective and have 300 rounds at best. Maybe bring this topic up when orange man gets in office and our economy isn’t in the gutter. But honestly I think IF orange man gets back in it’s going to take at least 3 years to fix the mess we are in at the moment.

[@neilfloyd1263]

Could you recommend one 5.56 round to buy and one 9mm round if you could only pick one? Thanks for all the information.

[@unclefreedom213]

9mm would be 135gr +p critical duty, 124 gr+p good dot or HST, 5.56 would be fiocchi loading of vmax, or winchester sbsp 64gr

[@neilfloyd1263]

Thank you

[@silasmadden5159]

⁠@@unclefreedom213So I’ve got Hornady Black 75 grain saved, as well as some MK 262. Mostly because my stores if they don’t have one they have the other, so that’s how it went. Should I choose to keep stockpiling both? Or should I move to just stockpiling one? If so which would you choose? And I use SPEER Gold Dot for Handgun Ammo. Is that fairly acceptable?

[@JohnDoeTheTroll]

@@silasmadden5159 The best thing you can do is not listen to the guy in the video. For up close defensive rounds, use HP for anything else stick with FMJ.

[@jefferyboring4410]

@@silasmadden5159just buy cheap stuff and actually practice. Bullets are OP

[@Mach141]

Why would the govt get rid of something that works you ask? To spend money. Politicians don't get rich without the kickbacks from spending your money.

[@Sageofthe16]

.....soooo...stock thousands of 9mm fmj? not thousands of 9mm hp? tell me more! :)

[@Jaylee-956]

So what was the better option again? That bullet you said that was almost impossible to get?

[@FourDogsArmory]

All my pistol FMJ is for training. I have a decent stash of HP ammo for defense. Out of a 20" AR, any ammo is duty ammo, though, (some 77gr SMKs and nice SP ammo is nice, though) and M80 Ball is more than adequate.

[@rangefinder5009]

What’s up unc! New subscriber from Cali. It would be interesting to hear your take on bugging out or in for someone in a state like mine. Appreciate your videos. Keep up the good work! 🫡

[@jjacres7060]

Remember as a civilian we don’t fall under the Geneva convention which is why the military uses FMJ so load up with open tip 75 grain it’s better ballistically for distance and up close if you ever need to exercise your second amendment rights. I do stock up on FMJ by the thousands but I shoot a lot at range time but I do reload all my brass up with good bullets

[@smsgtbulldog]

Thanks for the info and explanation. Some of this I knew, some not…some I’ve forgotten!!! I have always preferred open tip/hollow point and/or soft tip/ ballistic tip hunting rounds over full metal jackets.

[@evllve1441]

Great video , i learned a lot in a matter of minutes. Im about to spend on 2-3k rounds so im glad I watched this now before I spent it all on fmj cause thats all im seeing in my area for 556. Are you suggesting reloading ? So you can make the ammunition you want and need versus buying . I like that option soo looks like thats next for me . Learning to reload is on the horizon

[@nickdial8528]

This is terrible advice. Don't waste you money. FMJ is perfectly fine. Especially 55grain softcore.

[@evllve1441]

Ya after watching more videos and rewatching a section I missed in this video I can see how Application and What you can afford is definitely more important and for someone like me with hardly any shooting experience and wants to start shooting, buying a few thousand rounds of fmj is good for me. Fmj better than nothin

[@nickdial8528]

@@evllve1441 Do you want a good round performance wise, 55grain is good. M193 is the military designation. 55 grain has a soft lead core, and if it's moving around 3000 fps and hits a human target, the round fragments. It's a well proven effective round.

[@billyholman4495]

@@evllve1441 Freedom Munitions makes a 42 grain zinc core bullet as well, slightly less pricey and a bit faster, better at penetrating kevlar. Not very accurate past a few hundred yards though from what I hear.

[@russellmiller8332]

Since ball ammo is used in war and battles then it’s good enough for me.

[@unclefreedom213]

so you prefer to use a less effective round, not judging I don't have to be at YOUR gunfight.

[@silence6408]

I respect your thoughts, but most folks aren't corrupt elites with countless funds they stole from the people. There's also the factor of other items you need before a shtf in additon to ammo that gets expensive.

[@unclefreedom213]

I agree other stuff is more important but I will always view guns and ammo as an equalizer. Where are these elites you speak of Robin Hood time

[@silence6408]

@@unclefreedom213 I agree. As far as those elites' you know their names and you know what they've been doing to the people.

[@dutyb4booty]

FMJ's puts TWO holes in things. Holes are holes, and the more the better.

[@stickfighter1038]

Keep an ammo can of the premium stuff and stock the rest of the ammo according to your practice budget. If you go to matches or train a lot, you will have more than one rifle and several uppers so switching between defensive/hunting and practice ammo is not a big deal.

[@Puma1Sunfire1]

First video I've seen from you, I really started enjoying this once you really got into it. Subscribed & ALL selected from this. Looking forward to seeing what else you have made

[@patrickgrolemund545]

FMJ rounds or green tips for 5.56 is pretty much all you can get. I know you can get 223 rounds that expand but these are for hunting. However they don’t always shoot well out of 5.56.

[@thunder_mountain_muleys]

There's not 100fps loss per inch of a shorter 5.56 barrel. 20-30fps per inch of a 5.56 barrel is better math. Berger load data book for 223Rem says approx. 24fps increase/decrease per inch of barrel. Also, I have several AR's that consistently shoot 1.5moa or better with Greenies. 20", 18" and 16" pipes. Carry on..... 🇺🇲

[@gpuckit]

A bullet is a bullet, hollow point ammo wasn't always around in history

[@unclefreedom213]

They've been around a long time old times were turning around wadcutters, Keith bullets were drilled out and we ran soft bullets that flattened. Prior to that most died from infection from the wound

[@jasonshults368]

The first bullets were pure lead, in other words, EXPANDING. This was the standard for several centuries.

[@jimsmall3864]

I like your comment,something to the affect of"if you don't get plugged right out of the gate". I agree that you shouldn't handicap yourself ever. if you have 5k FMJ maybe take it and get some training. as you train with it replace it with some good stuff.

[@cincinnatiking8008]

I'm confused about this Hague convention agreement. Doesn't the US military use open tip rounds? Don't they expand like a hollow point? I'm pretty new to rifle ammo, so excuse my ignorance.

[@unclefreedom213]

No worries, we never signed but we did fall in line. The big issue was logistics which is why we issued the sake round to everyone. Second point yes we use OTM but OTM or BTHP isn't designed to expand. You're referring to the Mk262 77gr used in 5.56 and m118lr used in the m110sass. Both have hollow point in the name. However the hollow point in those fuction as a ballistic efficiency increase for a more accurate and long range effective projectile. I refer to them in the end, they are absolutely more effective on target just not from expansion. The hollow cavity at the front of the bullet will deflect one it enters a target causing rapid destabilization and the round to reliably fragment and tumble but open it does not. Hope this helped

[@mrushing76]

I get what you're saying. The odds of surviving a 1000 rounds of exchanging fire is unlikely. I'd be smart to have 1000 rounds of high quality ammo for each of your crew and fmj for anyone else that shows up/back up ammo. 77gr HPBT smoked a lot of guys on the other side of the world.

[@jeffreyfales7343]

What is your thought on iwi 77 gr mod 1-c

[@unclefreedom213]

solid round with an excellent bullet only issue I've had is they are not as consistent as far as SD and ES go as the Black Hills variant

[@PlainsmansCabin]

@unclefreedom213 Question: What would your thoughts be on ammunition for a dedicated civilian IAR, ir infantry automatic rifle role? Even if it is a semiautomatic version with 20” HBAR. Im thinking this role may be best served with a majority of FMJ as it’s main purpose is for suppression. Comment please! Thank you!

[@unclefreedom213]

100 percent 55gr 193 in this role possible even a otm 60gr. In this role is where fmj shines suppressive fire, accuracy by volume, recon by fire. otm 60 would have better terminal but I would still take m193 for this

[@PlainsmansCabin]

@@unclefreedom213 Thanks for the quick and descriptive reply! I love your videos and agree with much of what you preach. Keep up the great work!

[@unclefreedom213]

@PlainsmansCabin anytime my friend these videos are meant to spark debate and force people to think. As you can see from some of the comments people get big mad when you tell them there's an issue with what they stock. But sometimes just sometimes, people stop, learn something new, challenge themselves, and ask excellent questions much like the one you've asked.

[@PlainsmansCabin]

@@unclefreedom213 You sound a lot like me when I got onto internet forums 25+ years ago. I asked thought provoking questions to get people thinking and spark conversation. It eventually lead to my own website and forums, Plainsmans Cabin. With a fledgling family, the internet hosting just became too much and I allowed it to dwindle. Hence, Im happy and appreciative to find others doing similar things and wish you the best and hope your endeavors continue to grow. Thank you for all you do!

[@unclefreedom213]

Same to you my friend. I get a ton of hate from youre, just a tyrant cop to you don't know what you're talking about, to you should encourage people and not be so harsh telling them things don't work lol. My thoughts are without cops like me you woild already live under kings rule, and I would rather me tell you it won't work instead of you finding out in the fight. I love getting into good debates with people that are open minded sometimes I learn stuff sometimes they do but we always leave with a different angle to see from

[@ramborazz3194]

I slightly agree & disagree with you

[@Jarrow13]

The only reason I use JHP or defensive FMJTC ammo, is to prevent over penetration in normal times. Don't take it personally, I live in a country where we had that SHTF for a week back in July 2021, the UN definition of what a civil war entails. Where the Police totally lost control over looters due to political infighting that ended up on the streets, where the army that's so useless didn't even have the capacity to mobilize and were 3 days late after a week's unrest. Everything I imagined anarchy entails was pretty much wiped clean when it happened. The people who lived at the coast were fighting off hoards of looters (some looters were armed with full auto rifles) who wanted to get access to residential homes to loot and we don't even talk about those residents wives, elderly family members and children in the homes. The police ran out of ammo in the first few hours and some police officials participated in looting, the citizens used 100's of thousands of rounds to fend off the waves of looters over the KZN province. Some communities started reloading ammo as their individual ammo stock piles ran out. So now that I have explained the SHTF scenario,premium SD ammo becomes irrelevant when the real SHTF happens and you are better off with loads of affordable FMJ's and having some folks and yourself in your respected community having reloading components to be able to reload when ammo runs out. At the end the residents were able to fend off the looters and when enough looters lost their lives, the looters started to focus more on the malls and retail shops and were less eager to attack residential properties. Your premium JHP ammo claim looks nice on paper, but I can tell you in reality it means very little when the SHTF comes to your neighborhood.

[@jonbrooks6522]

I keep mostly fmj in 9 for the pcc type pistol

[@feoxorus]

All my reloads are HP but I keep a fair bit of FMJ for drive-bys. 🤣

[@conro7003]

Hey I have a question. Why is m855a1 used by our military if flattening or expanding projectiles aren’t allowed in warfare? I know it fragments more than expanding, but it sure seems like a hollow point with a steel tip in it.

[@unclefreedom213]

because it's not a hollowpoint it does however reliably fragment from a 14.5 barrel. Nothing in any rule prevents the use of rounds that rapidly dematerialize in fact we used fragile rounds for years in shoothouses and some astute guys used them for cqb because of how nasty they were. We have been hunting ways around stuff forever take mk262, m118lr for example they fragment reliably but were never intended or designed for actual combat they were made for shooting targets. We figured out they worked and started running them. 50 cal is another great example mk211 explodes when it hits stuff but in our description of the projo for deployment it's listed as an anti material munitions not anti personnel

[@conro7003]

@@unclefreedom213 ohh I see. Thank you so much for the response. That helps.

[@unclefreedom213]

@conro7003 Glad that helped, thanks for a great question.

[@arielkarat4338]

agree , well said !!!!!!! also Lehigh defense's extreme defense / Penetrator me favorite and the best combination of penetration and wound cavity

[@unclefreedom213]

extreme defender is one of the coolest round designs in recent history. I had Hornady shoot it through thier protocol at a ballistics lab I was at with them. Scary good and effective bullet design

[@MasterWitchDoctor]

I have a lot of 55, 62, and 77 match. I am buying the M855A1 as we speak and yea 100 rounds is 219 dollars (who cares), my 300 PRC is 60 dollars per 20 round box. I have a whole lot of Hornady 168 BTHP for my ArmaLite AR10s and Aero Precision LR308 which is my main battle rifle. Its a far better weapon than the M16s (Vietnam war hand me downs) I was issued in boot camp (Parris Island) back in May 1980. Hitting the 300 meter target on the rifle range made DI Gunny Neil all kinds of crazy watching me shoot the Mattel. Those M16s were straight up junk compared to whats in my gun room. Just because the military uses doesnt make it good, it just means they have a whole lot of them. I agree with most of what you said and heard you say some things I didnt know. Thanks for the info, i subbed you and like how you put things.

[@cliffknoebel8528]

Fmj over 2000 fps does just fine, so under 400 yards in rifle depending upon caliber and barrel length for most people. Knowing the ballistic characteristics of said round chosen is key, pistol I only have about 1k Nato

[@stephenleonard2073]

Not everyone can afford to stockpile high dollar expanding hollow points. Some folks can only afford a few boxes to carry in their gun for edc and the rest of their ammo is fmj practice ammo. Guaranteed, fmj 124 grain 9mm will 100 percent be lethal and nobody is gonna shrug a few of those in the chest off. Any ammo for your gun in a survival/emergency situation is better than none. I’d rather you had a thousand fmj rounds then one hundred high quality expanding hollow points. Any ammo is better than fighting with a sharp stick.

[@matthewbeaver5026]

I understand where you're coming from. And agree to have a few mags of good stuff stocked is a good idea.though after the first 500 maybe 1000. Fmj just makes more sense to stack to the ceiling. Not only for cost but odds are you'll never get through all the high quality shit. If you intend to be in constant need of it.

[@corycarlson8712]

Fmj isnt optimal... But its proved over the years its absolutely lethal. The chopping block had a great gel m855 sbr video where he talks about how m855 hate is modern day fudd lore. "It just ice picks straight through". It can suffer from fleet yaw but on thicker targets like the ones your likely to come across it will work fine. Id take m855 over any of the best 9mm hps thats for sure. Get the best ammo you can for your budget. Start loading your own if you can. I get hornady 55gr sps for the same price as fmj so im loading up a stash of that. Only at around 500 rounds for now but moving it up everytime i go to the range. If you can afford mk262 or fbi bear claw for $1 per round go for it, if you can only afford m855 dont worry about it. It will work fine. If 9mm fmj is all you can swing go for it. Or of your budget allows for hsts or speed buy those. Or better yet start handloading. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4Ctlalpbauspsksi=4rrzVOH6xw6FarTG Also from the dark covid times experience having to use m855 for everything because nothing else was avalible... Its brutal. M193 can be even better out of a 20".

[@jacksexton4153]

I keep 1,000 rds of hp and 5k to 6k of fmj 9mm. 1,500 rds of 5.56 77gr and about 8k of 62gr green tip, and 2k of 55gr. Also about 6k of various 308, 7.62x51, and about 6k of 7.62x39 some is soft tip or hp but mostly fmj.... The Fmj for practice or shtf Fmj pokes holes and gets the job done. The hp or higher end stuff for protection around the home or carry...For the average man with 4 little girls I can't afford high end ammo to practice or train with or stock pile for shtf. I see where you are going with this and it's valid. However at the same time fmj gets the job done. It pokes holes in bad guys around the world so it will poke holes for me if the day ever sadly comes. It's great if one can be an ammo snob but I'll just put 3 rds on target and proceed to the next target/bad guy. Yes hp will do more damage but in a shtf situation both fmj and hp will do the job.

[@richardbaxter6127]

Stock pile 77 grain otm and reload for it also with serria at same velocity. However I also stock fmj for trading if things get bad.

[@BRENT3143945]

Can we say ball 45acp is alot better then ball 9mm?

[@romanleon76]

When SHTF you grab whatever you have at hand

[@jasonshults368]

And if all you have is crap, you're going to suffer.

[@shawnlively4753]

Fmj ice picks, Varmit rounds like the Vmax gernade on impact, rounds like the Amax or Eldm penetrate then expand and pass through the target like a hunting round but have more accuracy. Fmj is what the military uses but only because a wounded soldier takes multiple assets out of the fight due to someone coming to save the injured soldier then medivac then Dr.s etc

[@hardtarget2359]

Yeah this guy is talkin out his ass! As the legend Clint Smith says. Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people and shotguns will blow a chunk of shit off and put it on the floor!!!!! So use what you have! Plain and simple!

[@adamrodgers2377]

And I have had the privilege of getting training from Mr Clint Smith and I can tell you for a fuckin 100% FACT he uses premium Self Defense ammo in his H.D Firearms, not some bullshit hard ball. Training yes, FMJ but if you're not smart enough to use good ammo to defend your family or yourself you have missed everything that man has been teaching since he was at Gun Sight.

[@nickdial8528]

@@adamrodgers2377 But this isn't talking about every day carry ammo. He's talking about telling people to not stockpile fmj for SHTF, which is completely stupid. Two completely different things.

[@adamrodgers2377]

@@nickdial8528 I have yet to hear him say DON'T BUY FMJ. I have heard him say multiple times it's fine for training but not for Self Defense use, and he is 💯 correct, FMJ is shit ammo for Self Defense Use. Would I want to get shot with it? Hell no! But I'm not fooling myself thinking my 10,000 rounds of 55gr FMJ is SD ammo. Self Defense Ammo is more expensive but it's also easy to find on sale 4 or 5 times a year. Hell why not being the "best" Self Defense ammo I was able to put back around 7,500 rounds of Federal 9BPLE and it wasn't but $79 bucks per 1000 round case than hard ball at the time I found it on sale. I have used 9BPLE at Training Classes the last 3 Classes I took because it is super accurate outta my G17, the shit works my Comp decent and it's good to shoot full power loads during training. As far as 223/556 I have a nice supply of 55, 62, & 75gr Gold Dot for SD and Hunting, in case I was to need it and a nice supply of Black Hills MK262. Yeah it's cost $ but is money worth more than your family or your life? I know money can't compare to my Daughter and my Girlfriend. Also, and this is not directed at you, but anyone else who thinks this. I'm not "rich" in fact I'm on a strict monthly income, but I still find myself stocking up on premium Self Defense ammo because it works. I also have my Daughter and Girlfriend that loves to shoot as much as myself so we reload for that purpose, and we are able to shoot damned near daily. Having a range in the backyard is wonderful! Finally, and I don't mean to sound like a asshole but I don't care what ammo YOU or ANYONE else uses, what pisses me off is this guy is giving solid ass information and folks are shitting on what he is saying. No matter what FMJ SUCKS ASS for Self Defense and also it is not the most accurate and accuracy is No. 1. It's a good training ammo. Oh, he also said when and if you have to bug out that he wasn't carrying all his ammo. I know damned well I couldn't carry all my ammo even if I load my Suburban with just ammo and let my Daughter ride with my Girlfriend. Look at the big picture, not just the little things like ammo. If anyone had to actually bug out, they won't be taking all 56 Rifles, 83 pistols and 37 Shotguns. They won't be carrying 15,000 rounds of ammo for each firearm. They will probably have 5 guns per person MAX and about 2,500 to 4,000 rounds of ammo. Food and Water will be WAAAAAAAAAY more important that Ammo.

[@dthundergunb3115]

Its not a war crime if the people actually do commit to a civil war. I reload my own ammo. Reloading consumables is my list of stuff to get every possible opportunity. I used to hate on 5.56 but then I got one of those scary black rifles and learned why the government doesn't want us to have them...they're definitely a formidable tool in the right hands, and I appreciate the video, practice makes not perfect but more proficient...because theres always room for improvement or maintaining your skills. I cast my own target loads that are the same weight as my hollowpoint sd rounds

[@justa3v619]

The only fmj I shoot is in pistol at the range. My range ammo for my ar15’s is whatever the cheapest otm/bthp I can find at the time. I use a lot of the aac ammo from psa. You can get otm/bthp and ballistic tip for the same price as fmj so why not. That way if you did have to get into your training ammo in shtf you still have decent ammo. Which the 75gn Sabre is one of the rounds I do store up. I’d say that’s what I have the most of at this point. That and 75gn frontier bthp. Then 64gn federal power shock

[@tacticalpickle7]

Something to consider as well is the adoption of small barrel rifles that further decrease the capabilities of the 5.56 round.. I still believe this round is extremely capable of doing great damage. Your videos point out some critical points.. like we are not limited by military or warfare global regulations.. and that is true.. but we are limited by a budget. ...and getting this higher performance round created by the private sector is not a solid investment for most people. You can not blame anyone for saying, " If it is good for the military.....is good for me as well." I still have not heard of anyone complaining that they got shot with substandard military ammo. and wanting a rematch with better aftermarket rounds 🤔.. I still believe your video is spot on.. in a perfect world.. where everyone makes 100k a year... and can afford to turn down military surplus ammo.

[@joescarry2247]

A through and through wound cavity means blood leaving the body on both sides.

[@Mark-uh4zd]

Eh, don’t fully agree. FMJ is the cheapest option to stock up on. I’d rather have a ton of that than a fraction of defensive ammo. If ammo scarcity ever occurs again, at least I’ll have enough to practice and still shoot. Also, in a SHTF scenario, I can trade some of my stockpile for other things. Ammo will be a hot commodity in a situation like that. All in all, it’s good to have A stockpile of both,

[@woodsghost9088]

With over 100 things put down since 2010, I'm going to say I'm pretty happy with M193 and M855 out of a 16 inch barrel. FMJ compared to HP and SP from a rifle, I really like SP from 5.45 up to 7.62. I've had M855 fragment out to 150y. (I haven't hit with M855 beyond that yet). And it's put everything down so far. 16 inch barrel. I've had 3 inch exits with M855 (Winchester), but average exit is 1.5 inches. 16 inch barrel. I have never had M855 icepick with my equipment and the ranges I've used it at. I'm willing to accept that someone might have different experiences. Exit from Critical Defence 55gr at 150 yards was 2 inches. 16 inch barrel. So far that's the best results I've had from a HP. Other HP have not had the same quality of results. But have expanded out to 250 yards. Narrow exit wounds and deep penetration with 55gr HP. At some point I'll get 64gr SP for a 223 and see if I'm impressed. (I expect to be pleased with results based on other people's experiences). But until then, I'll agree that a SP is generally better than FMJ, but I'm just not hugely impressed with HP vs FMJ in a 5.56 platform. So far, when looking at HP vs FMJ, the difference is pretty narrow. I do get better strait line penetration with HP while the FMJ can do 90 degree turns. So that can be good. So far I'm happy with all the 55gr SP I've used. But accuracy can suffer if the exposed lead is jacked up. So far, 30 cal is better than all those, but I don't have a 30 cal anymore. Just my experience so far. I suggest people get out and put lots of DIFFERENT ammo though their rifles into stuff. See real world results. Take pictures and notes. Hunters, process your critters and take notes on what you find inside.

[@dimassalazar906]

Quantity over quality beat the Germans. Ask the Soviets. I'd rather have more ammo than not enough. For hunting, that's reversed.

[@unclefreedom213]

Side note I'll get back to more of this comment once I get on a computer. Midway had the 64gr SBSP pulled bullets just FYI if you load

[@woodsghost9088]

@@unclefreedom213 I look forward to your additional comments. I'm always learning. Thank you. I don't reload 5.56 or 223, but I reload other rounds. Thank you for the tip on Midway. I'll have to get some small quantities of loaded 64gr and see what I can learn.

[@woodsghost9088]

@@dimassalazar906 I get the Germans vs Russians argument. I think we see that in Ukraine right now too. But I think there are limits to the argument. I think it's situationally dependent. When you have "enough" quality, it's better to have Quality. If your choice is between "quality, but not enough," or "quantity, and plenty of it," I think the better option is Quantity. That grossly oversimplifies Germany/Russia, and Ukraine/Russia. It ignores tactics. And the USMC have found that a quality rifle and quality ammo yields superior results out past 200m. But inside 200m, quantity becomes very important. So context matters.

[@thegreengrenaderedux]

I stockpile FMJ HP and JSP. Different rounds for different applications. Now. These are rifle rounds I'm speaking of, so I can see a difference in conversation if you're talking. Handguns.

[@TheGunNerd]

Thoughts on 77 gr tmks?

[@unclefreedom213]

it's a match round same thoughts as what I mention on mk262

[@TheGunNerd]

@unclefreedom213 do you have any recommendations for who makes tmks or mk262 for cheap enough to justify stockpiling it? I'm not buying 20 rds for 30 bucks 4 times a month tho that's too much

[@500spectre]

I like the passionate rant on why the GOV messes up, but you missed a huge point in stockpiling ammo. Quantity is a quality all its own( as far as rounds at target). This is even know from military doctrine and war statistics. Yes, FMJs are not good, but quantity is a factor. If 5,000 rounds was your goal for stocking up, yes get the 'good stuff'. Just putting holes is stuff is mostly going to be enough. The questions probably is how much 'good stuff' do you want and when to trade quantity for quality?.......Remember the M249 had one of the highest kill counts in Iraq and it wasn't because it was a precision weapon.

[@caseyne]

Im not going to mag dump 77gr 556. Suppression of fire will scare people more than thinking you are going to have time to take shots at individual people.

[@trey5sevenMag]

As someone who’s been shot with a .45 FMJ….. it works just fine 😂😂😂😂

[@shawnlively4753]

9mm i recomend the Federal HST's or the Speer Gold Dots or here in Texas durinv the summer a 50 gr Liberty Civil Defense 2140 fps 9mm hollw point as most people will only be wearing a Tshirt not 3 layers of denim i want a round that enters and dumps all of its energy within 3 "

[@MeatPuppet1962]

I saw the current conditions coming years ago from miles away and Ive spent years preparing on multiple levels for these days. Im good.

[@unclefreedom213]

Yep it still blows me away when people say things like I'm out of ammo or I still need to get water storage but I have 10k rounds of fmj............Like my friend you have already failed have you not been watching literally any news channel

[@tylerreis7627]

None of it matters if you don’t train. In fact, round choice barely matters even if you do train lol. I will agree, round choice is a much more relevant and important consideration for rifle. 9mm is anemic, period. Doesn’t really matter what round, gains are marginal at best. Vs with 5.56 you actually gain performance worth the cost.

[@VirgilTStone]

Professing themselves to be wise, they behave as fools....

[@donniejoy4469]

I keep a good stock of both.. but feel FMJ should be more than carry because that means MORE training for cheaper while still having something that will work in a pinch.. but no my carry ammo is what I call "purpose" ammo because if its loaded it its because that firearm is going to work.. At the end of the day however.. if you train a ton, you hopefully will be proficient with your gear..

[@daviddrago9360]

I only reload and use only 62grain for all my 1:7 twist. 2 reasons, one is which your zero changes with your different ammo so using only one kind keeps everything zeroed and two producing a good round keeps me at 1 moa

[@unclefreedom213]

so I'm curious you're a handloader and choose to load 62gr when all the other options including blems that we have access to exist. are you loading the bonded 62s I mean I just got 2k of the 64gr sbsp from the ranger loads for 230 bucks

[@daviddrago9360]

I’ve loaded a bunch and the 62 grain seems to be less picky and holds a better group. Yes you can get further with 77g and less crosswind but unless your case prep are all perfect, it’s going to take away from accuracy big. Not so much with 62 and still hold 1-1/4 MOA@100yards1:7 twist. So I get pretty close to match grade without all the extra work which allows me to mass produce without worrying that the case isn’t perfectly concentric. I do flare inside the case and remove the burrs from the flash hole to create a more even ignition from the primer.

[@daviddrago9360]

Everglades Ammo has a version 2 62g that I’ve been using for 4 years. Blems are blems for a reason, too much inconsistency makes them blems and are only useful for a mag dump lol SP’s are good in accuracy but aweful on a hard target. Ss109’s are aweful if there’s any crosswind and become easily unbalanced. 55 grain is only useful in a 1:8 twist. 1:7 won’t stabilize it well enough to hold accuracy 62 seems to be the magic number for 1:7 using FMJ BT

[@SgtRudySmithbRet]

The US never ratified the "hollow point" section of the Hague.

[@unclefreedom213]

they did not but as Nato members along with all the countries that did. Logistics trains being what they are we make and use what they make and use. So if we send ammo to an ally they don't violate

[@ryanwhitehead618]

I would rather not fall into the category of not having any ammo.

[@thirdperihelion4686]

In this day and age, why would anybody want to be classified as a terrorist, over the type of ammunition that might be found in their possession?

[@brotherbrovet1881]

110 Grain Vmax bullets in .300 blk are absolutely devestating and relatively affordable buying from PSA. They make 77 grain sierras OTM for 5 56 at great prices too. Shooting 5 56 from less than a 20" barrel really needs the 77 grains, especially at lengths below 16".

[@lancewalker6067]

Price, availability and no one is getting shot just once.