Elegoo's Best Resin 3D Printer - Saturn 4 Ultra 16K - its HOT!

[@UncleJessy]

Checkout the new Saturn 4 Ultra 16K + Heated Vat! shrsl.com/4tjd8 - Affiliate Link

[@rerikm]

so, you didn't check the camera nor the fast mode... what's the point of this video then?

[@rerikm]

ohh right, it was an Ad! pretty mediocre Ad tbh

[@anthonylong5870]

Jessy do you think it would be possible to print those two little handles on the build plate and put them on my ultra 4?

[@l4zy64m3r]

It's really nice that Elegoo listens to it's users/customers. Most of the complaints (of the older Saturn 4 Ultra) has been fixed. One small bit though....they should have removed the embossed/debossed "ELEGOO" wordings on the bip/drip tray. Makes it a pain to clean the resins.

[@Botanical4038]

Agreed. There's a model on makerworld for some inserts that'll give you a nice smooth surface to wipe clean. Highly recommend.

[@JohnDoe-bz4yl]

The debossed ELEGOO wording doesn't bother me just as long as it keeps resin from getting on the screen I'm happy

[@aosabi]

I never cleaned the drip tray.. just hit it with the UV lamp and it would peel itself clean. but I quickly replaced it with a silicone mat on an MDF board, that works much better.

[@Botanical4038]

@@l4zy64m3r there's also some inserts someone made on makerworld that you can print and slot in, giving you nice smooth removable things you can easily clean.

[@fluxcapacitor]

03:29 All resin printer manufacturers get this new 16K 9.6" LCD display off the shelves from the same supplier. This new LCD happens to be a bit smaller than the previous 8K and 12K 10.1" versions. That's also the case with the Uniformation GK3 and GK3 Pro which have this new smaller LCD too, as well as the brand-new Athena II from Concepts 3D, when one selects "16K" instead of standard "12K" in the options when ordering. Worth noting "detail": the newer 16K 9.6" LCD has less transmittance than the older 8K or 12K 10.1" LCD (due to the "wiring" between the pixels being denser) so the UV intensity curing the resin is weaker, therefore the exposure time (hence total print time) is higher. This new LCD can nonetheless be coupled to a new yellow high-transmittance polarizing screen, which offers almost twice as much light as the old black polarizer, negating the issue. Athena II 16K and GK3 Pro do have the yellow polarizer, while standard GK3 and this new Saturn 4 Ultra 16K have the old black, low-transmittance polarizer.

[@Donbro]

This info not being in this video is pretty bad ngl

[@fluxcapacitor]

@@Donbro ​ TBH in defense of Uncle Jessy this is very little known. If Nico from Concepts 3D had not share this information, nobody would have and certainly not the big manufacturers. BTW, the initial plan at Concepts 3D was to offer the Athena II in 16K only, either with a black polarizer as standard, or the high-transmittance yellow polarizer as an option. But the couple "16K LCD + black polarizer" was so awful in their thorough tests that they decided to ditch this bad combo. Their new printer is therefore either 12K + black polarizer (standard) or 16K + yellow polarizer (option). Coupling the new 16K 9.6" LCD to the old black polarizer is a nonsense! Nonetheless, that's what Elegoo (S4U16K) and Uniformation (GK3) do 🤷‍♂ Finally, the only reason why Uniformation deigned to include the more expensive yellow high-transmittance polarizer on the GK3 Pro is because the black polarizer blocks any wavelength below 390 nm, and the GK3 Pro has a 385 nm UV light source.

[@matthewduepner1811]

​@fluxcapacitor would you thus recommend the 12k version over the 16k? I get that it has a slower print time, but it is already such a fast machine given the tilting mechanism. A slightly smaller screen means an even greater pixel density which is nice but perhaps not noticeable. I'm a jewelry designer, so most of the objects I make aren't that large, so I don't mind a slightly longer print time.

[@fluxcapacitor]

​@@matthewduepner1811 I don't see myself a specialist, I just gathered very precise information on that matter. What I'd do if I purchased an Athena II today for example, is that I would buy the cheaper 12K version, not the slightly more expensive 16K for almost no improvement and (slightly) smaller build volume. But I print big parts. For a jewelry designer however, this is different. I think this is one of the few uses where one could benefit from a highly detailed resolution (ie smallest pixels possible). YMMV so ask for more advices :) If you're about to buy a Saturn 4, don't forget that the main improvement of the new 16K version over the previous one is in fact the heated vat. IMHO this is the thing to consider between the two.

[@matthewduepner1811]

@fluxcapacitor I agree that the heated vat is the main difference and is something I was going to add regardless, so going with the updated version saves me a bit of time and helps me achieve greater detail. Thank you for your input. Can you point me in the direction of where you learned the info stated in your original coment?

[@Zazooku]

I literally pulled the trigger yesterday on the Saturn 4 Ultra 12K with all the bells and whistles based on our previous videos and I just seen your video about the 16k. I have contacted Elegoo as I still havent received anything, so wish me luck.

[@jamesbullo]

Cancel it while you can

[@Xenely4]

I had the same issue. Ordered the Saturn 3 and a day later saturn 4 got announced. They refunded it to me Np.

[@bioshock3d-]

Ordered my S4U over black Friday. Kinda upset that this came out so soon

[@Wasagii]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@mrmaxin53]

@@bioshock3d-what was the discount if you don’t mind me asking

[@Zombull73]

Would be a great opportunity to offer an upgrade kit for those of us who already plopped down a wad for the S4U

[@SergeiSugaroverdoseShuykov]

it would require replacement of tilting mechanism+screen+motherboard as well as vat(which isn't a problem ofc), since elegoo doesn't even share firmware changelogs it's too much trust from them to their users

[@metacombs]

I think a buy back would be more appropriate lol.

[@drkline69]

I would be happy with just upgrading the handles on the build plate and the vat.

[@MichalKovac91]

That would be replacement of half of the printer. PSU, Motherboard, screen, screen mount, VAT at minimum. You wouldn't save any money on it

[@gadget_hack]

@@metacombs that's capitalism.

[@Dr.Ratio69]

Build volume is the thing that I’ll always be consider.

[@mrmidnight32]

It’s probably how they were able to bump it to 16k magically… smaller build volume higher res per pixel

[@xmatobujnakx]

i dont need higher resolution from elegoo i need bigger printing bed

[@Botanical4038]

A Jupiter with tilting vat would be awesome

[@ping0518]

Thisssss. Definitely.

[@xmatobujnakx]

@ i dont see layers on saturn2 8K already :D 16k its overkill

[@holoprops]

I love seeing all the amazing features on resin printers these days! I'm really curious if now is a great time to give resin printing another shot. Thanks so much for the awesome video!

[@hazonku]

Wow. They REALLY did ALL the things we asked for! NICE! Can't wait to get one and that new wash & cure station too!

[@StumblingBumblingIdiot]

Heated vat FTW!!!!!! My Saturn 2 screen died so I will have to see if the money tree has any leaves yet.

[@digitalsmithy]

so is it safe to say that we can now print in sub freezing temperatures? say, in my garage during winter months

[@AndrewSink]

That timelapse camera is pretty legit!

[@UncleJessy]

It's definitely an improvement... no resinlapse ;)

[@Rosaroja14]

Como suscriptora hisponablante (española) agradezco mucho el poder ver tus vídeos en mi idioma, ojalá mas canales hicieran lo mismo que tu! Tu contenido como siempre, es genial!

[@haylspa]

This will be my first Resin Printer

[@jpsmithsculpts]

VogMan is going to be stoked for the heater!

[@Sgt_Hest]

Preordered the 16k + the cleaning kit ^^ Will be my first resin printer, so I'm a bit excited to see how it goes. Been wanting one since Saturn 2, no point in dragging it out anymore :D

[@leedunning1825]

That added heater is exactly what I wanted.

[@markusgri]

Nice Video, i ordered my Saturn 4 Ultra 16k! I am hyped to get starting using Resin prints for my Channel Projects. Hopefully i do not need to wait tooo long.. 😃

[@ccatlett1984]

Is the build plate actually flat? S4U was plagued with warped plates.

[@UncleJessy]

2:27 my buildplates appear completely flat and flush against each other

[@Mrpancake72]

Not just the plates. Sometimes the machine screen/z axis was warped. I had two that had issues leveling and couldn't print. One was so bad I had to return it, the second one has to have a special Gcode to print anything on the back side of the plate

[@andrealaura2568]

Elevated Systems encountered a lot of problems with the build plate

[@emberprototypes]

Man the frequency at which they release new machines is kind of crazy 😅

[@Liberty4Ever]

For me, the tilt release of the Saturn 4 Ultra 12K was the big update. I could benefit from a thermostatically heated resin tray because my printer space isn't as thermally regulated but for people who keep their printers in a themostatically controlled environment or who have the discipline to fill the resin tray the night before and have a thermostatically controlled heater inside their 3D printer to keep it 30 C all the time, they'll have consistent print results with the previous Saturn 4 Ultra 12K and a slightly larger build area. The ears on the big heavy build plate are a great idea. With resin covered gloves, it's easy to drop that build plate. Certainly there's a good mod for that. Resin 3D printer design is converging on a very optimized solution. What we really need is cheaper resin that is tough and most importantly, the uncured resin can be inexpensively washed away with some inexpensive detergent rather than spending as much on isopropyl alcohol as we did on resin and having a complicated messy manual cleaning, drying and post cure process. That all needs to be simplified and automated. I do functional prints. I want to use ABS-like resin to quickly manufacture 20 parts, place the build plate in the finish station and it's washed, dried, the parts are separated from the build plate and post cured. I want a clean build plate and good parts out the back side. That's what we need to have an alternative to injection molding.

[@michaellittlejohns7968]

Can u do a video of 3D Printing the airless basketball at 120% scale with the flexible tpc filament this week

[@UncleJessy]

Ohhh yeah let me try that on my XL!

[@3DPrintedProps]

Nice with the heater. The add on for the last one is pretty inefficient. Not sure why they haven't added a built in vent system yet.

[@melchorct]

In my humble opinion it makes no sense for the print volume to be smaller in each new version when it should be an essential feature within each range of printers, and the other features are still superfluous to me. I have been keeping my two 3 ultra.

[@Wasagii]

Well u want the printer to cost less.. that mean smaller build volumes. RIP

[@kiroaepi]

When are they going to make a larger build volume?

[@paulgattini5075]

The figures look great, have you ever done a comparison between resin printing and FDM printing using the 0.2mm nozzle on the highest setting?

[@Rell187J55]

When buying a printer, what must-have items should I get, such as a filter, a resign washer, light, ect. ?

[@brianhogg358]

Man, Constantine sure looks a lot like Harrison Ford.

[@savagefrito]

Insert Ostrich Laugh meme 😒

[@Flash007b]

Can you try a cold weather test with the heated vat? Have the printer in a garage or outside and see if the file prints without issue.

[@3DPUK-TECH-CHANNEL]

I carried out a test in -4c and worked perfectly

[@bctech845]

Its lovely but needs more build volume! Not sure why Elegoo keeps going smaller on the build size! Makes me need to go to another machine!

[@Hunikengt]

I already pre-ordered the 16K version, my supplier was on time to tell me about it before I bought the 12k version!

[@JohnDoe-bz4yl]

I have only owned the Saturn 4 Ultra for less than a month so there is no way I'm upgrading just yet foe the new features I am trying to find a brewers belt that is easy to install on the Saturn 4 Ultra and doesn't interfere with the tilting Vat

[@KurtisK94]

Check out once in a six side, he used a brewers belt on his I believe and think he left a link for it.

[@jiminystriker9345]

At this point though, the smaller pixels just seems like a marketing gimmick. I can notice no lost detail on even 4k printers, let alone 12k. 16k just seems like an excuse to up the price.

[@TheAciddragon069]

Tbf the heater alone is worth the slightly higher price tag

[@SgtMajorSav]

will they come out with a 13 inch build plate one day. I need this exact printer, just bigger build plate

[@tombo7719]

Jessy, been printing FDM for about 9 yrs, would this be a first time resin printer printer? As a video idea, from first time in Resin would be a cool video. I have no idea on costs and what all is needed w/ resin.. and what each type of resin? has to offer or what to watch out with. Thanks bro, any updates on the Orange Storm Giga?

[@gamingwithjacobi8757]

Hey jessy, I hope we who have the 12k version can get the light and vag heater add ons the same way we could buy the heater or the filter for the printer

[@jimmycote808]

16K wow!!! i need to know Jessy if you print a test cube 1'' x 1'' x 1'' and check for accuracy with a caliper how accurate this printer will be?

[@cowabungacreation]

Heated vat❤! I love the Timelapse you did in your video, how can I purchase one of your custom resin Timelapse cables?

[@awildtomappeared5925]

the build volume is smaller because while the 16k lcds are advertised as 10.1 in they are actually 8.9 like the saturn 1

[@TheNerdArmory]

I've gotta know how this holds up versus Heygears. Now i know heygears is more of a closed system and allows them to be dialed in because they know what you're putting in it, but versus that, how /close/ does this get to it. It's always the benchmark for me when looking at resin.

[@Wasagii]

Ughh. Heygears...

[@AshtonWalker-cj9dj]

Can we please get rid of the gap in the build plate though. Very frustrating to remove resin from

[@mav4732]

I noticed you aren't wearing a mask near the uncured resin at several points in the video, are you using anything in particular to remove the vocs?

[@7demo7review]

I have 2 of the S Ultra 4’s for my dental lab and the added heaters are annoyingly loud.. I may need a third now that this came out😊

[@GenPatriotX]

Curious do you resin print teeth?!? I’m sure that’s not it but curious now lol

[@Vormulac1]

Damn, it doesn't seem like that long since I got the S4U on pre-order! Do I upgrade or wait for the S5U - that is the question...

[@marcoc.1646]

I am still with the first Saturn. A curiosity. If you puncture the fep in the vat, even if you can save the screen by putting a protection( fep), don't you risk that the resin will end up on the UV led lightninig unit or the other hardware?

[@figuresix]

Very nice. Just ordered a Fermentation Heating Belt for my big resin printer. Colder than the artic as midnight here, and cant get a single print to work on it. Pain when ya gotta keep it so close to a window to vent the fumes and even when insulated still to cold around that area.

[@hylash1967]

Since we're talking about new releases, are you getting a Core One soon? Thinking of pulling a trigger for that and MMU3 instead of going with x1c combo, somehow looks to be a cheaper option too

[@Viking3DK]

Hallo UncleJessie.. I was wondering what kind of camera and software your using for video editing and specific timelaps? Love your videos!

[@Brandon-hd9wm]

What’s your personal opinion on resin printers, what to avoid and what to get/look for in them. Also if you have specific ones you really like what would you suggest?

[@vizionct1]

Loving my Sat4ultra. Only had 1 fail and amazing printer! Great review. any word on reviewing upcoming Anycubic Kobra S1 combo printer?

[@Sgt_Hest]

I don't really care much for 16K vs 12K, but is it worth $100 more overall? Probably not going to need the VAT heating, but might be good to have the option anyway

[@UncleJessy]

If you don't need the heated vat then go with the Saturn 4 Ultra or the Mars 5 Ultra. Its freezing cold here in Rochester, NY so its an awesome addition having a heated vat for me.

[@victortomaz1991]

If your place is always 28c , for example you live in Rio de janeiro, then you don't need it, otherwise, I GUARANTEE YOU, that it will be a game changer in your life, it's a pain to do all those functions manually, I have the very first Saturn

[@Sgt_Hest]

@@victortomaz1991 Its not 28, but mostly 23-24c in my appartment :D but I'm thinking it might be nice to have "just in case".

[@Dark0Storm]

More importantly than being able to use the S4U build plate on the S4U16k is that you can use the S4U16k build plate, with it's blindingly obviously needed handles, on a S4U... when they are available to buy.

[@Botanical4038]

@@Dark0Storm there are also several add ons people have made that you can FDM print and attach to the top of the build plate to help with this.

[@alantocheri]

Would love clarification on if you need an account / can you send files directly to the printer, etc. I don’t know the workflow of Elegoo but was eyeballing this one (once Mac support is there)

[@l979corvette]

why didn’t they come out with this before christmas?! I just got the 12k and would love that heating element

[@ThingsYouMightLike]

Might finally be worth getting into resin.

[@WarbossGork]

Well you still have the whole cleanup phase, equiment needed, curing phase and prober desposing of the used resin/alcohol. Compared to FDM: print and ready maybe a little sanding.

[@nrianvega9086]

@@WarbossGork hay resina de agua que no solo se limpia facil, no es toxica y apenas tiene olor para usar en lugares cerrados. si no que tambien se cura con agua... haciendo que la unica molestia sea el equipo de UV

[@Andrew12217]

​​@@nrianvega9086me podrías decir cuál resina y de que marca? Hasta ahora todas las que vi lavables en agua no se puede tirar el agua del lavado por la cañeria y tienen las mismas precauciones y avisos de toxicidad que las lavables en alcohol isopropilico aunque no tengan olor.

[@absolutsci]

@@nrianvega9086 Water based resin IS NOT NON_TOXIC! IT IS JUST AS TOXIC AS THE OTHERS

[@haseoDM]

if I didn't already have the 12k version I'd be all in but I've gotten use to using a heat gun before every print it's not even a hassle anymore maybe I'll buy the next revision

[@mr.waffles2555]

I’d buy it for the heated vat alone since I want to print in an external shed in the winter.

[@Peter-DOC-Docter]

Driptray wise, just use aluminum foil, or i personally use an oven pan, it has lots of space, you can put you plate with print directly on it and easily safe some precious resin! And it cleans real easy!

[@The-Avien]

I’m so bummed I ordered the 4 ultra at the start of December. Temperature variation is the main issue I have and getting the heated enclosure set up was a bit of a pain and could have saved a bit of hassle with a heated vat!

[@TheSkyCactus]

The mix function is a gamechanger… damn i wish i had money rn

[@MrNBridger]

Looking good, I wish it had a bigger build hight.

[@redlefthand]

Preordered mine! 💸

[@awildtomappeared5925]

When testing printers with heaters please print something tall and flat like J3d's vertical test, sooo many heaters like the v1 elegoo air heater cause repeated lines from the heat turning on and off which are best seen with such prints. PID heating should be standard just like fdm but instead almost all resin heaters just turn on and off and if the heating is too direct or the differential is too low this causes lines as the heat affects the exposure

[@artungnl]

Do you think the heated Vat would be enough to use this thing in my balcony? It is not an open balcony and it would be protected from rain and dust etc but the temps would still go down to like 5-10 C at night

[@MrGTAmodsgerman]

If you wanna compare these resolutions, make transparent prints. Because any tiny stair will refract light and make things less transparent.

[@markburton5292]

The heated vat has made me buy this unit. my printers are in a shed and so they need heat when printing in the winter

[@dragonling748]

That purple resin, in Australia its $111 is it worth it? I use Anycubic ABS like 2.0 pro and Elegoo ABS like 3.0 in a 50/50 mix. comes out at $24 a bottle.

[@paulpardee]

For the bottom layers, I'm wondering if you're just not used to printing at higher temps. I print pretty close to the 30c mark (because that's how hot the room is) and my bottom exposure times are usually in the 15 second range. This is pretty close to an ideal printer... I'm not sure what else they could add to improve it. I'm still going to wait for next year's model, though! I'm not sure my wife would appreciate me getting yet another printer this year!

[@UncleJessy]

Yeah im thinking I could go below 20! Will try that out later this week

[@Serenityindailylife]

I just got the s4u a week ago, haven't opened it yet. Should I return it?

[@spartanvi]

If they gave the Mars 5 Ultra a similar heated vat, I'd buy it in a heart beat.

[@TheCreativeCollector]

Now if they can do this for a larger format printer that would be great.

[@Wasagii]

How long does it take for the resin to get to temp for printing?

[@UncleJessy]

Oh I should have covered that. It took about 5-10 minutes maybe to get to 30c.

[@Wasagii]

@UncleJessy ahhh ok.. so then it gets to temp then just starts printing. I'd assume you can't print without the temp feature on in the 16k printer.

[@flybywire5866]

Regarding the situation with Bambu, how is the situation for this printer? Any ecosystem lock ins?

[@GaryTabarJr]

nope!

[@rmjoumaa29]

I was bleak when I saw it was 16k, but the heated vat is a game changer as I print in my garage.

[@niklscalemodel]

These printers keep getting short in z height? This price point i would live to see 300mm

[@flagoon]

I didn't expect this. I was sure it will be only resolution update, but heating vat is a game changer for me (cold in the garage). I can even live with shitty plate.

[@necroloid123]

I wonder how well that heater would be in temps below -10 Celsius?

[@Kaylakaze]

When I follow your link, it says $499, not $399. Also, it says that's a special pre-order price and that the normal price is $624. That would make this not a $399 printer, but a $600 printer that's on sale. Oh, I noticed that the description seems to just be copied over from the 12k ultra and doesn't specify the 16k where it says $399.

[@hiro1234512345]

What is the brand of the blue resin you’re using

[@rmfberry261]

does the buld plate enter the resin while preheating?

[@tbarsnessvfx]

any plans on doing a anycubic s1 combo review?

[@bneil4059]

Will it detect when the resin falls below the minimum line and either stop the heating or stop the print?

[@Just_An_Idea_For_Consideration]

What is the blue and the purple resins you use in the video?

[@soup_bone]

wait so i should be using fast mode with my s4u currently? it wont effect my print quality? cuz i have 2 second rest time after release rest time after retract. I might have to give this a shot.

[@Domkllr88]

Damn I'm early. Definitely on my list of things I need this year.

[@sauve76]

is this printer idea for a newbie, in door to house... can be cold in the house, would use a table top enclosure with a vent to the outside... woudl this suffice

[@nrianvega9086]

¿Existen estas impresoras con todas estas características, pero con algo que las hagas estar frías no solo calientes para ambientes cálidos? ¿así no compre el sistema de ventilación aparte?

[@jleadbetter29]

Look at the ballz on this guy. An Elegoo printer review when Bambu's world is burning down around it. Just kidding..or am i? Great review NTL!

[@DeVstatrOmga]

Really want one but the toxic chems are still a big no for me. Any news if they're moving away from that toxic resin??

[@Skott62]

Kinda a shame the build volume is a bit smaller. To be honest I find it hard to tell the print quality difference over 8k resolution so 10k, 12k, and 16k resolution really doesn't impress me much. Its other features that I prefer to see improved, upgraded, or added instead of 16k resolution. For example the build plate needs improvement. Cleaning it is troublesome as Jessy showed.

[@fanboykc9140]

Best? What are your opinions of their DLP resin printers?

[@scificb1]

How is the vat heated? From the bottom , sides?

[@MrAcuta73]

IF they can take all this good stuff and put it into a Jupiter update....I'm all over it. This machine wouldn't suck, but I'd really like a large format to replace my current Saturn.

[@dannyslag]

6:32 looks like there was a print failure. The left side of the plate has a raft with no supports or half supports with no model attached.

[@MarkWidner]

Can they just fix the hard to clean build so i dont have to buy a new cleaner?

[@BrandonsYouTube]

My biggest problem with SLA when I had the original Saturn was failed prints. Constantly something would come off the build plate or not print properly. Or stick to the FEP. This is why I pretty much only print SLA now. So much easier and honestly with a small nozzle you can get some really good quality. Instead of adding k's, they should be concentrating their research on how to get the damn things to print much more reliably.

[@oidiusz]

you mean you only print with fdm now... Anyways it is still really far in quality (i have a bambu printer too) and i have way way less failed prints with sla than fdm. I would say i have 1 failed prints in 20 with sla.

[@BrandonsYouTube]

@oidiusz yea, ment PLA but phone must have changed it. A little PETG too but I never have failures

[@dragonfly4546]

That's literally what the integrated heater, self leveling build plate and tilting vat are for. All of those features directly help minimize failures. However print failures are primarily caused by bad resin settings or supports, and no printer features can make up for deficincies in those.

[@ThOoMii013]

I added a heat brew belt to my 4 ultra vat. And added a lamp with some magnets. Cost me under $15. 12k vs 16k I can't see the difference. But If I was in the market for a new printer. This saturn 4 16k ticks all the boxes.

[@mrmaxin53]

Would you mind sharing your setup?

[@Buildonsound]

How long is the pre-heat cycle before it starts printing?

[@theSnapcaseLIVE]

do these printers use PPI to measure their detail ever? Thinking of smart phones, pixels per inch is the real caliper.. .resolution is secondary, of course per size of screen...

[@sasuke3388]

Think ill get the last saturn 4 ultra and just print a clip handle for the top of the build plate and add my own lite onto the camera, the heated build plate sounds nice.....if my apartment wasn't already warmer than 30°c, I'll instead try and find a bundle with the wash n cure station for the same price, didnt add enough features for the 100$ extra charge

[@sasuke3388]

Correction, my apartment is 28°c, but from what I hear the temp drops down to 25 during printing

[@benjaminsmith2367]

I hope the heated vat is standard in at least all ultra printers going forward.