Uncovering The Truth: The Toyota Mr2 Controversy - Is It Really Dangerous?

[@coldlakealta4043]

the most dangerous part of a motor vehicle is the nut behind the wheel

[@comfy_rwds]

agreed, if the steering wheel nut is removed and then not put back properly, or aligned straight, you will have major issues.

[@Owen-hg3cu]

Which is why a car like this is a bad purchase for the average driver

[@Agu_Ra]

As someone, who has crashed a mk3 MR2, I agree

[@piotrmalewski8178]

​@@Owen-hg3cu I dare you to take some short wheelbase front wheel drive car like VW Lupo, Fiat Seicento or alike (must be without ESP!), take it to a closed track, and do something to provoke high oversteer, for example cornering liftoff, or moose test and try to control it. Up to 15 degrees oversteer it's doable, but anything more it's next to impossible. When manufacturers were transitioning from rear wheel drive to front wheel drive, everyone were claming these cars were easier to drive. In reality rear wheel drive car was like a good father that on daily basis puts difficulties for his child to overcome and learn, but comes to aid when things go seriously bad. Front wheel drive cars on the other hand, are like a psychopath with Piranhas in his swimming pool. Surrounds you with sense of security and then out of a blue throws you in the pool. We were sold deathtraps that were just cheaper to produce.

[@johnmorris1124]

@@piotrmalewski8178 Interesting point. Many drivers talked about 'primary safety?' being good, you could lift off and go into mild and progressively stodgier understeer, but push hard on some front wheel drivers and ultimately you will be a passenger, I reckon. Had a moment in a Cinquento that I don't care to revisit! Curiously, the French 80s and 90s Peugeot /Citroens had this sort of 911 bad boy reputation for engagement and 'excitement' in various proportions, but I owned a second hand Pug 306xsi that I will always miss, and it could have spat you into a field all right, but had wonderful steering and on a wet day naturally responded to some opposite lock. I reckon that having cars that are controllable is probably the most important thing. I wonder how many Escort xr3i drivers in the 80s have memories of overcooking a corner and wondering why the car was travelling resolutely in straight line off the road, there was a reason that the hot hatchback was affordable... add bigger than normal engine, season with fuel injection stick into small family front wheel driver, tie down firmly and watch from a distance was the mass market model! The best drivers' cars had more development and consequently cost more.

[@genzigzag]

One of the best looking Japanese sports cars of the 90's for the money.

[@VivariumSnake]

I'll say, the 1988 prelude is also gorgeous ❤

[@DaleSteel]

Must be joking. Looks ghastly

[@GTE_Channel]

When I was a kid someone nearby had one when they just came out. The first time I saw it, I fell in love. It was red and looked like a million dollars worth. This car has a special place in my hearth.

[@svinche2]

Beautiful is Supra, Skyline, mitsubishi GTO, RX7 .... but MR2 is Ugly as hell !!!

[@OrdinaryJoe12]

Poor mans Ferrari is what we called them.

[@benjamindasher8896]

Lets set the record straight, There is no design flaw with the original 91-92 suspension version. The first version of the suspension of these cars is a masterpiece. Toyota had it right in the first place. I have been road racing an sw20 for almost 10 years. The consensus amongst me and my peers of other people that race the sw20 is always is that the 93+ suspension is terrible, and makes the car slow. Toyota only made the effort to change it, because there was an executive that wrecked a sw20, and he blamed the car instead of taking accountability for his mistake. (The story of the MR2 in a nutshell,) 93 suspension gains toe on compression, that causes the rear to plow under load. This does make the rear easier for novice drivers. However the 91-92 suspension stays consistent which is exactly what you want. A well set up early SW20 will not snap oversteer. If you do not know how to drive a mid engine car don't buy one, or take the time to learn.

[@andrewm4200]

This sounds exactly like a Lotus Elise. You lift up mid corner, you get what you ask for!

[@TheWorldListens]

​@@andrewm4200in any car carrying high speed in a corner for that matter 👍

[@julianbrown1331]

Biggest issue - same as all mid-engined rollerskates - is lift-off-oversteer far more than bump steer, all of which is exaggerated by misalignment of those rear tie-rods. When correctly adjusted they are sublime. Any other condition *is* dangerous

[@jackroutledge352]

Yeah, but good luck finding a competent mechanic who can get the suspension set up right. I had one back when I was a 19 year old student. Not a great idea. I span it on three separate occasions, once just turning right on a roundabout at completely normal speeds. I was lucky to survive that thing to be honest.

[@davideastwood5552]

I had my MR2 turbo for 5 years and loved it. However, it did bite me once. Slow speed, very wet road, turbo kicked in and after 540 degrees of spin later I found myself in a field. No damage, apart from my pride. The only ‘accident’ I’ve had in 36 years of driving. Despite that, I still miss that car

[@Assimilator1]

I think the turbo was the problem 😉, that's not factory fit is it?

[@AndrewShakespeare]

@@Assimilator1 importer MR2s had a turbo, I don't think UK spec ever had the turbo.

[@weegaz22]

@@Assimilator1 not an official UK import no, the Turbos were largely bought on the grey market when grey market stuff went through a boom in the early 2000's, I've had a MK1 and a MK2, I could understand why the mk2 probably caught more people out, when it started to step out you had to be really really quick on the steering input to keep it from spinning, never had that issue in the MK1, and my MK1 had the 3sgte in it.

[@rshone99]

@@Assimilator1 I have lost the back end in my NA in the wet almost effortlessly, pulling out on to a road. Obviously a very low speed slide but it is definitely a tail happy car and can be a bit sketchy in the wet.

[@Assimilator1]

@@rshone99 what make tyres did/does it have?

[@stuartsmith5308]

The most dangerous car sold to the public was probably the original 1970's Porsche 911 Turbo, nicknamed the Widow Maker. When the Turbo kicked in the car would spin around backwards into traffic, into a hedge etc, some owners and passengers did not survive.

[@for-sure-friend]

false.. when the turbo kicked in everyone shit their pants and let off the throttle. you need to keep it planted to the floor or you are done for.

[@DavidJones-or8ek]

It would have been a "widow maker".................. if any of the owners had wives.

[@m.h.b.3828]

@@DavidJones-or8ek Wasn't the 911 not the definition of midlife crises present for any (wealthy) middle aged married man those days?

[@piotrmalewski8178]

@@for-sure-friend Porsche was difficult enough ever since they went to 3 liter engines. They tried to fix that with led weights up front. Rally cars didn't have that. Even Zasada mentioned the car was difficult to drive and acting very differently to the original 2 liter.

[@IncognitoChild]

Goes back to the point someone else has made that the biggest danger to anyone is the idiot behind the wheel 👍🤣. If you couldn't adjust your style to drive around the turbo lag then you shouldn't have been driving it 🤔

[@stevephillips8719]

'Lift Off Oversteer' is a major problem with any mid-engined car AT THE LIMIT! I destroyed a Fiat X1/9 by lifting my right foot in a corner at the very limit of it's grip. The car turned around and hit a concave clay bank at 100kph. It shortened the car by 14". I survived by the skin of my teeth.

[@rain-bender4712]

Snap! But my crash happened in a Lancia Monte Carlo. My car survived (with damage) but I got rid soon after.

[@jasonheathcote7407]

I did the same in a MR2 MK1. Didn't help that I had just picked it up from the previous owner to find that the ditch-finder cheapo tyres were lethal.

[@roysoutdoorlife]

I found the trick to driving a Exxie quickly, was to make it drift a little on purpose. That way it didn't catch you out. Also, back in the late 90's, mine loved Firestones that were a little bigger than standard (from memory, 185 instead of 165). I miss my X1/9...

[@roysoutdoorlife]

​@@rain-bender4712the X1/20!

[@adriansutherland7948]

Old Porsche proverb say 'in slow out fast'. One of the lads bought a Carrera 2 3.2 back in the late 80's & threw it into a ((big & wide) roundabout lifting off the power on entry, next thing I'm looking out the side window into our direction of travel. Next roundabout went in slower-but on the power & flew out of the roundabout like Walther Rahl was driving & not the village idiot who'd been doing overtime on the farm.

[@forgedfulton4377]

Man, I still miss mine. Rev 3 turbo in dark emerald green. I was the first UK owner. It looked pretty standard from the outside but it was packed with goodies. A mate of mine also had one but mine might have well been from another planet compared to his. I was just lucky that whoever had it done everything right with power and handling mods. Was extremely quick even by todays standards and handled amazingly. The only time I lost it was me trying to see if I could drift... I couldn't. Rain, snow, ( I'm Scottish, get a lot of it) and it was fine. Best car I've ever owned.

[@richardhunt809]

I’ve driven hundreds of thousands of miles in my 2 Mk2 MR2s I’ve owned since 1997. I’ve only oversteered once and that was on mud in the wet. I put it down to inexperience and listening to Metallica at the time! I had an absolutely lovely drive in my Rev5 at the weekend. They’re so much fun!

[@redsidebiker]

Hi Jack. They weren't dangerous. I bought mine (a white T-Bar) in 1998 and sold it after 80,000 miles 5 years later in 2003. It was fantastic. I drove it really hard on times and it never ever approached oversteer (apart from in a snow covered car park, just to see). 21 years later I still miss it. After my 1275GT Mini it is probably the best handling car I've ever driven. I also drove one on 14inch wheels and didn't have an issue with that either (and that was a turbo).

[@philipmulville8218]

Nearly bought one in Switzerland in the late ‘90s but it was an auto and.. I just couldn’t. Cracking looking car - glad you had a great experience as an owner 👏

[@neilmchardy9061]

A lot of people put bigger wheels with low profile tyres on them which ruins the handling.

[@KingCast65]

You also probably know what time it is as a driver. I spun a Gen1 with lift-throttle OS but I was 19 and wasn't aware.

[@sublevel03]

The Jalopnik article was about the turbo 3SGTE version... Having been in both NA and turbo SW20s and an NA AW11, I can say that any of them in the hands of an inexperienced driver, potentially can end up in a surprising case of the rear wheels overtaking the front ones. But the NA versions are relatively benign if piloted by someone with even moderate competence. A turbo SW20 with a couple of spicy (yet common) mods... exhaust, intake, and a bit of a tune is an altogether different beast. It requires a relatively switched on driver... especially in the wet. My friend had a particularly spicy tuned JDM import SW20 that we would joke that it was safer to park up and walk than turn on the wipers! :P

[@simonhjc]

Geez I love this channel! I retired from the auction industry last year after 37 years. One of my clients was Toyota Australia. They like my auction style and as such would give me a new company car every 5000km. One was a MR2 and ive got to say Jack your description is absolutely spot on. In watching this i can still feel the way it handled through the mountains. I basically drove it like a 911. Ie commit to the corner and either be on the throttle or not. Great little cars. Thanks again Jack

[@timgosling6189]

My favourite bit of MR2 trivia is that it had to be re-named for the French market. In French MR2 sounded too similar to 'merde'; it became just the 'MR'.

[@TheBadBunny87]

Oh look a Toyota sh*t 😂

[@motosnape]

Interestingly, the word 'etron' translates to turd, yet Audi seem to be sticking with 'E-tron'🤣

[@LightBranches]

Emmerdeux, to be exact.

[@vardiet]

The opposite was the BX TRD which has been renamed in the UK for the same reason.

[@betacam235]

@@LightBranches Correct. = 'shit-stirrer'. Almost as bad as when Rolls-Royce nearly launched a new model at the Geneva show under the name 'Silver Mist' until they discovered that in German that would be Silver Turd.....

[@lepod]

I spun my Mk1 in the wet on the way to work one morning luckily without hitting anything but it certainly was a handful if you lost the rear. I stuck some much better tyres on it and learned to respect it a bit more, was a great car if underpowered. I loved it to bits.

[@Number27]

Nice work!

[@spinnetti]

same

[@LOTPOR0402]

You want to try a Ford Capri , even the 4 cyl models were really bad for that

[@CAL1MBO]

Spinning an underpowered car

[@gairnmclennan5876]

They changed the toe-in on the rear. Yes as Jack said. Many are not set right. At a tire shop ask for a 4 wheel alignment. Or you won't get one. Even my old suv is adjustable. Not all cars are though.

[@cologne2792]

I always thought they were a fantastic car. What impressed me most was, at 6'4" I climbed in and put the seat right back only to find my leg wasn't long enough to push the clutch all the way down! Brilliant packaging. As for the most dangerous: I drove 3.0S Capris throughout the eighties, in the rain.

[@EnWorks]

I’m 6’2” and I would always have to take the roof panels out to fit in with a helmet.

[@staggabob]

I'm glad someone brought up the Capri! Mine was only a weedy 1.6 but I still spun it on a damp bend (entirely my fault,you don't brake mid corner!). My friend had an 2nd Gen MR2 and drove it like a loon everywhere she went and never had any serious issues with the handling- although hers was a 96 model I think. The way that cabin wrapped around you as you sunk low into it made it feel really special and although I owned a Celica (and we took both cars on a brilliant trip all the way up Wales) the closest in feel I ever got to an MR2 was a MK1 Z4

[@johnbumstacker]

I had a Rev2 Turbo import years ago. Felt like a rocket at the time, loved it. The back end came out on me once, I managed to correct it fine, but compared with the various front engine RWD cars I'd had before, the lack of weight over the front wheels was certainly noticeable!

[@RacingAnt]

Friend bought a late model MR2, like this one. I warned him they had a bad reputation. He shrugged it off. Even said the oversteer was manageable and fun. Guess what? It ended up wrapped around a tree at an urban roundabout. Awkward bump on the exit threw the car off the road. He wasn't going particularly quickly either, as corroborated by his passenger.

[@David-j1z3z]

Mine snap-oversteered twice - both times at roundabouts

[@murrieteacher]

This model is my major competition at the Mt Cotton Hillclimb in Queensland Australia. The car arrives with super sticky "R" rubber and a good driver. My MGTF has the same rubber and some suspension mods but the MR2 has just a little more HP and it shows with tenths of a second faster times. There is also another one but not in my class because of the turbo that is seconds faster. That is a very well presented car. Thanks Jack.

[@michaeloreilly657]

Many thanks to your photographer, who stood around waiting for you in the rain.

[@iboswell]

It's often tricky to get a mid-engined car to both fast and benign on the limit. I did with a S2 Lancia Montecarlo and really did quite a few things to make it work better in those respects:- - S1 antiroll bar at the back and move the std bar at the front back in its mounts to counter the increased roll stiffness from the rear - Koni dampers all round and increased -ve camber at the back - custom std ride height but approx 30% stiffer springs. I was an Engineer, could do the math etc so it was still supple but much better suited to track days etc - custom 15x7 wheels, ironically using 225/50x15 tyres on the rear built for the MR2 you're reviewing here. - It also a Guy Croft engine with 156BHP to make it go a bit better too and plates to strengthen the rear crossmember which cracked at Castle Coombe Pleased to see it's still on the road. I sold it before moving to Aus in 2001. Might look for an MR2 over here as my 61st birthday present myself but franklt might just get another late MX5 NC - best version for me.

[@anxiousappliance]

Had a MK1 - picked up from ebay for $1500. Camped across the US twice with my GF, before it had enough. The most joyous car I've ever had - always made me smile. My GF still misses it too, and she really couldn't care less about cars.

[@DownEastSaw]

It’s so easy to blame a car for lack of driving ability and knowledge of the vehicle.

[@Owen-hg3cu]

And in the case of the MR2 there's a lot of justification for that. Most cars don't require the driver to be so careful.

[@64-bitMicro]

At the time these were first produced in their home market the "tuner" scene was on song. Living in NZ where a large percentage of our vehicle fleet was made up of used JDM vehicles, these SW20 MR2's were often seen imported with aftermarket suspension fitted. Be that lowering springs and shocks, or more serious adjustable components, this nearly always firmed the vehicles up and reduced the suspension travel, near eliminating many of the issues with rapid changes to rear toe. In some ways it can be claimed that Toyota intended these as tuner vehicles to be customised to the drivers preferences, and when they were designed and tested the suspension was closer to that of the aftermarket than what was then fitted to the production vehicles as 'delivery suspension'.

[@peanutbutterjellytme]

A lot of Jalopnik articles these days seem to be sensationalist and click baity.

[@starfox_wr-45e93]

This is the 1st thing I though too when reading the video title. It's because those kind of sights are losing readers in their droves to youtube, much like print and forums have and did.

[@jameswillard1]

Absolutely! Jalopnik is the worst in finding a topic and blowing it out of proportion just to get clicks. Most recently a friend sent me an article they put out regarding the manual transmission 911’s being done all while knowing damn well it’s just a changeover year and that several iterations of the 911 will be returning in a short period of time 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@ShortandSons]

I had a J Reg one in the 90s. I had the rear step out on me once on a roundabout, fortunately I managed to catch it. The more worrying flaw for me was that the front was very light at motorway speeds. The driving position, gear change, t bar roof, were all brilliant.

[@ryanmccormick2150]

A mate of mine has a black mk2 he's had it 25 years! He also used it as his wedding car.... I've driven it a few times, and I wouldn't call it dangerous having said that I've never pushed the car as it's my mate's pride and joy , cracking stuff as always buddy 👍

[@Skyfloats72]

I had several. Mk2 in white and she drove a treat. Then had a Tubby, and did a road trip round Europe (All of it) Monaco, Turin, Austria, Switzerland and many more country’s. Had a total blast, not ever one bit of an issue with the handling. In fact I miss them both, but now days they hold their value real well.

[@gombeane]

An induction kit will work wonders with the noise, but as someone who owns one, be careful in the wet, it will bite. In the dry if you are an absolute pig with the steering and throttle you will end up in the hedge. But drive it right it is a lovely thing to drive, it puts a smile on my face every time I take it out.

[@andrewthompsonuk1]

My dad had a 1990 MR2 GT from new. He used to drive it hard (new rear tyres every 10k miles) He never had the slightest issue with the handling and loved the way it changes direction so easily. I drove the car a lot however the Autocar and a Motor reviews had spooked me a little so I never got to enjoy it as much as my dad did.

[@joshuarosen6242]

I owned one of these from new. It was a year after this one and was Goodwood Green. I spun it twice, once 540 degrees, which is quite an achievement considering I didn't hit either side of the road. Despite that, I still loved it. I loved the cockpit feel of the cabin and I thought the mid-engined layout was very cool. I did have to be careful with it but I had a lot of fun. It's still one of the prettiest cars I've had. PS the pop-up headlights were brilliant.

[@william-131]

More than once after I have watched one of your videos I check the classifieds in Italy where I live. Most of the times the British prizes are about half of what is asked for the same car here. Same for the Mr2 gen II. They start from about 10k€ to over 20k. The biggest advantage of buying one here is that in most regions no salt is used on the roads in winter time keeping them rust free.

[@Wargasm54]

The GTS and Turbo models go for much more here in the USA. Between 20-30k with low mileage. The car you’re in is easily 18-25k with that low mileage. Perhaps more to the right buyer. That’s a nice example. The Turbo had 200HP. A real zinger.

[@philstabler]

GTS

[@salamander5703]

I read about a similar thing with the Chevy Corvair in the US. The root cause of the tricky handling is from rearward weight distribution and having the same tyres at front and rear of the car, so it can have the same size spare. In a corner the rearward weight bias causes the rear tyres to have a bigger slip angle than the fronts, which tightens the cornering line. That in turn increases the cornering force which makes the rear slip angle increase more and it all just gets worse until you spin, or an experienced driver either reduces lock or speed. Maybe those toe bars were there to increase toe-in on the outer wheel as the car rolls to compensate for the increase in slip angle? I'm just guessing here, but maybe someone out there knows more about this?

[@georgebettiol8338]

The first generation corvair was fitted with a relatively powerful rear engine and somewhat 'unsophisticated' independant swing axle rear end (like the VW Beetle) - a lethal combination at high cornering speeds - where the tyres were subject to alarming changes in camber. The design was replaced in 1965 model year with a fully independent trailing arm rear suspension which largely cured the rear axle issue - however it was still a rear engine car that possessed an inherent oversteering tendency when driven at speed - a trait that was similar to the first series short wheel base Porsche 911.

[@kkiwi54]

I've never had a mid-engined car, although I nearly bought a Fiat X19 once. The biggest scares I have had with lift-off oversteer were in a Mini, a Mirage Turbo, and a mk2 Golf GTi. I suspect that front wheel drive cars may be a bit more prone to it due to the engine braking effect, so effectively "lift-off" and braking at the same time

[@SiCrewe]

There WAS a real issue with the rear suspension geometry of the Mk1/Mk2 SW20, causing the rear wheels to toe-out slightly under compression, which meant that the outer wheel (the one with all the weight on it) wanted to run wide while the inner wheel (with no weight on it) tried to oppose this, and physics dictates that the outer wheel will get it's way. As a member of the MR2OC, it used to be pretty common to hear people talking about how they could "deal with the oversteer", only to inevitably report that they'd buried their MR2 in a hedge/wall/tree while demonstrating the limits of their abilities in car control. I had my only big "moment" with my MR2 when I approached a large roundabout on a wet day, decided that discretion was the better part of valour, eased off the gas gently, started to turn and found myself looking at the road ahead through the passenger window! Managed to control the slide, knew that braking or easing off further would cause me to lose control and just feathered the throttle around the roundabout until the back straightened up. Thing is, much as it was a lovely car, the SW20 wasn't a great handling car and a modern hot-hatch with less power could probably leave it for dead in the hands of 90% of drivers because of it's twitchy nature.

[@Swat_Dennis]

The last part is where I tend to disagree, If you set the car up right, with coilovers and the right alignment, even the 155 horsepower, base 1990-1991 model with it’s “bad geometry” will smoke cars far above it’s class. Albeit for a few laps on track And the thing is, an MR platform will always have a very high platform A BMW or a miata can only go so far… an MR pretty much has no celing, so to speak In 10 years of driving my 1990… I have only spun it once. Due to rain and a really bad road

[@SiCrewe]

@Swat_Dennis True that a modded SW20 can be a real weapon. My point, really, was just that a more modern hot hatch is much easier to drive and, thus, quicker for most people (including me). Since my MR2 I've had a Mini JCW and a Civic Type R and neither felt as "special" as the MR2 but I'd bet they were both faster, a to b, than the MR2.

[@RacingAnt]

​@@Swat_Dennismodded makes your comparison pointless. It shouldn't need to be modded to be safe on the road. Track performance is also not road performance. You have a controlled environment on the track, not on the road.

[@BillLaBrie]

I come here first this. Thank you.

[@initial_kd]

@@SiCrewe 30 years worth of advancements in cars and bringing top end features down to lower models kinda helps too. Like the GR Yaris, it's a great little car.

[@jfair7050]

The MR2 SW20 was first released in October 1989. The Ferrari 348 was also released in 1989 (can't find the month). I've read previously, that the SW20, was released before the 348, can't confirm, but being the same year and considering development time, I can't see how either specific car, could have influenced the other's design. But obviously, there is "some" Ferrari inspiration in there.. Keep up the good work Jack 👍 Been waiting for you to do the MR2.

[@alexanderclement928]

On two separate occasions I saw MR2s completely flip out, do a 360 and land in a hedge. Now I know why. Great video.

[@SimonWallwork]

I had a Mark one and loved it (86/D). I drove a mark 2 in 1995 and thought it looked good. Not as much fun as my mark one though, which revved to 7700!

[@keirsideas]

I had one, a 1994 Japanese Domestic Market GT-S. I loved it and it was very fast in a straight line. The handling though was dreadful and it did try to kill me on a couple of occasions. To put it in perspective, it replaced my Alfasud Sprint, which could have run rings around it for road holding. The MR2 understeered at slow speeds, especially in the rain and on tight corners (like roundabouts). Under power though, it would oversteer savagely. The 3S-GTE turbocharged engine has a cast iron block and if you look at the placement, it's almost rear-engined. Combined with no weight over the front wheels and the electric power steering, which was lifeless, it wasn't a great recipe. I disconnected the power steering just so that I had a fighting chance of feeling what the front wheels were doing. I replaced the MR2 with a Lotus Elise and there couldn't be more of a contrast. Toyota should have paid Lotus to setup the MR2's suspension.

[@philhawley1219]

Just one word tells me you understand about proper handling and road holding. Alfasud.

[@philstabler]

The pip from hell

[@MartinD-r1f]

Jack, I owned a series 1 from new in 1987. And what I found was that they were very sensitive to tire pressure settings. On the factory settings it was fine. But you could skew the balance of the car by adjusting tire pressures too far from factory - mine would throw snap lift off oversteer if the rears were set higher than factory. Lesson learned very quickly.

[@alanclarkeau]

I started driving in an era where most of us bought cars from the 50s & early 60s. Want snap oversteer? - choose whether you want French or German. Mind you, some of the cars of the era could oversteer AND understeer simultaneously.

[@greenmoose_]

A guy I worked with had an L reg imported MR2 Turbo with a mild tune of some sort of it. Fairly bog standard apart from that though. He offered me the keys one sunny afternoon so (with some trepidation knowing the reputation of the MR2, let alone a powerful one) I took it out. I went easy at first, gradually getting used to the car but the more I drove it, the more I started to like it. I came to a huge roundabout and decided to really see if it was as bad as described and really nailed the throttle, throwing it into the roundabout. Honestly it was a revelation, sure it was clearly mid engined but holy wow - I was in love! I spent the next 30 minutes on country roads enjoying the handling a bit too much. At no point did I feel unsafe though. All you need to do is know how to drive and respect the chassis, as with any mid engined car. Great cars!

[@rushnerd]

I think the issue is mostly with how damn light the car is and the crazy weight distribution. For how freakin' huge and heavy she is, you can get into trouble fast in my MK3 Supra, but with the size/weight, it's not too hard to get yourself back out of it, especially with all the torque. I can't REMOTELY afford one of these MR2s in the states so I went with the 01' Celica GT-S that got the 2ZZ the Spyder never did. It's only like 400 pounds heavier, but extremely fun and very practical.

My dad at both a 1984 mk1 MR2 and the a 1990 mk2 MR2 Turbo. Loved both of them. Raced both. Traveled in both. Reliable and it always worked. I being a advanced toyota technician didn’t hurt either. We bumped up the boost on the stock turbo a few more pounds and it returned excellent mpg when driven sanely

[@cjmadura]

I had a 1991 T-bar roofed Turbo version. 200HP. It moved very well, and I found the handling to be excellent. I hated selling it, and would love to have another (early) one in the same bright white. Alas the asking prices for a rare pristine example is simply higher than I think the car is worth.

[@jonwaite5036]

I had a L reg one but the non upgrade in aqua marine...the first week we had it my girlfriend did 360 on the roundabout but I put this down to having a golf Gti previously..lucky she didn't hit anything! One Sunday evening I did the fastest time I will ever do coming from deepest Northumberland to Northamptonshire, it certainly ate the miles on a long run...and there's still some fast corners near me that I would have job to match in my TVR ...maybe that's my age ! But generally owning a mk2 mr2 was good fun..

[@caeserromero3013]

I couldn't afford an MR2, but it turns out I wasn't much better off in my Metro back in those days. When it failed the Euro N-Cap safety test, it was discovered that in a frontal collision at anything over 25mph, you basically had a high chance of losing BOTH legs. I think if you were driving a Metro that had a frontal collision with an MR2 driven by a 17 year old joyrider, it was certain death! 😂😂

[@anthonyg4671]

They would drop water on to the alternator through the vents and to change one isn’t the easiest thing to do 🤔

[@robsx4280]

Yep I can vouch for that 😂

[@grimson]

@@robsx4280 There's a trick. With about 3 feet of socket extensions, you can undo the alternator bracket bolts from underneath the rear bumper, and just caress the alternator out from underneath. It's the bracket itself that makes replacing an alternator such a pain, so once you release it, replacing the alternator is a breeze.

[@gofres_8540]

A mate of mine a few years ago bought a 1999 MR2 and allowed me to drive it on the way home after buying it. In damp conditions, and old rubbish tyres, it easily snap over steered on me just coming out of a mini roundabout at reasonable speeds. Thankfully, i didn't destroy his pride and joy on the same day he bought it and we drove home very very carefully from that point. He put some good Toyo tyres on it as soon as we got home and what a difference it made! Soooooo much more grip! Then he added a sports cat and back box with a k&n standard filter. Dyno run went from 158 to 182bhp. Felt tons better to drive. I know there's always the temptation for bigger numbers, but in my opinion, 200bhp is a good figure for this car. With your butt 6ins from the floor, you really don't need to be going fast to feel like you're going fast.

[@thud1015]

I had a MK1 and then upgraded to a MK2 GT TBar. The MK2 was a 1991 so not tweaked to improve handling but I never had an issue with it, and I was still quite young. I nearly lost the MK1 though, pulling out of a supermarket car park into a gap in traffic in the wet. But the MK2 never put a foot wrong Great information and video, thankyou 🙏

[@htimsid]

Any car is dangerous if driven improperly.

[@PrettyRecords]

So true and if you love a car, then it's worth while learning it's quirks and limitations.

[@LOTPOR0402]

Yes you would have to drive it stupid on public roads to oversteer , like a 911

[@arthurdardalis]

@htimsid well said

[@markotrieste]

Yeah, car makers never make mistakes nor cut corners 😂

[@outrunninginflation4081]

I got outta shape in my MK2 early on in my ownership, only needed to hit a small patch of sand on a familiar bend, lucky I corrected but it is/was easy done

[@DavidFoster-g2e]

The Car magazine front cover I can remember . The author of the Car article was ( the late ) Roger Bell who was for many years a senior journalist at Motor magazine . He raced in the early 70’s in the BTCC ( driving a BMW 3.0SI and maybe a Dolomite Sprint ) and if he criticised a car his criticisms were correct.

[@EnWorks]

I owned this exact car (same colour too!). I tracked it multiple times and yes, it did have surprise oversteer. BUT you could always predict the limit by the neat little chirp of the rear tyres. My only real gripe was the overall weight.

[@justaddafan]

The tail happiness of these cars is over exaggerated. I've got tens of thousands of miles on two 1991 MR2s. A 200hp Turbo and a 200hp 3.0L swapped V6. I tracked the V6 car. While it handles like a mid-engined car (excepting the very forgiving Boxster or Cayman), it's not unmanageable or unpredictable. They're great fun, even at the limit.

[@TheMdog8]

In 1996 I was a passenger in one these - I loved it - but two weeks later the same car flipped over going around a corner!

[@bertenpetrasinagl2692]

Bought myself the Mk1; loved it ! But yes, I was a fairly novice driver back then and was a huge Celica fan (had severel models TA 40, 60's) so quit natural to move towards MR2. Yes, it was "jumpy" in the rain and quick city driving. In my case, it approved my driving skills A LOT. Had my MR2 late 80's and since then all sorts of cars (from Impreza GT turbo to Quashqai) and no, I repeat NO accidents. Drove an average of 50.000 km' s per year (including the Impreza!!!) and I have nothing but thumbs up for the Toyota. Oh yeah, good video again...😂🎉❤

[@andrewnorris5415]

I had one in the 90s. The "worse" kind (MK2 v1). Must say shortly after getting it showing it off to a mate, flooring it on a dual carriage way at 50mph on the straight - it got knocked into pretty bad over steer - had to be fairly quick to catch it. This was not the hot hatch I had been used to! Then, weirdly, at the exact same spot with my Dad driving, he also got in into oversteer. It took him a few side to side swings before he caught it was he was not used to catching cars as I was. I can only guess it was a bump in the road at that point that disagreed with it when accelerating! Both times it was wet. I had a slide in a car park turning left on ice at low speed, it let go really suddenly and needed very rapid full on lock. Caught it just right and ended up doing a nice turn! But I had to be quick. The other time was when I was driving in the early hours in the wet (chucking it down) and got carried away going into a sharp bend. I realised I was going way too fast and started to brake hard (bare in mind no ABS). I started by turn before fully letting go of the brake and wham, the rear end let out so quick I have never seen anything life it before or since. I needed to react so rapidly and then "catch it" by letting off just at the right time to stop it going the other way. Phew! I got round. Entirely my fault getting carried away was a young man. Not proud of that incident, could have been much worse! I made sure I was extra careful after that. Generally the MR2 was a nice car to drive. There were two engine options - cars with the rear spoiler like mine had more power. Very reliable car, I did 50K miles in mine taking it up to 100K and had no issues. I heard the transmission can handle 800bhp! The steering is semi electric and would have been better as full hydraulic. We never got the Turbo version officially in the UK although there were plenty of imports. The handling generally never gave me problems other than the issues I mentioned! I often enjoyed it in the typical UK wet weather where I would happily let it slide about a little very safely. If you are used to FWD cars though - this cars swings fast when it lets go and needs more skill to catch. Other cars seemed super easy, could catch in my sleep after this. Although once I had a big slide in my AX GT - hitting a pothole in the wet at 60mph. That turned out to be due to the alloy leaking air and a fear tyre got very low. You are right - rust is the issue to watch out for. While not a perfect engine which would have made it like a proper Ferrari, I still enjoyed revving mine to the 7K limit and the engine was super strong and reliable.

[@acjdf]

Kinda glad I wasn't on any road near you back then.

[@MrCarrera28]

I remember driving a friends car, the day that he got it no less, and the road I was on had a camber change from left to right and changed from up to down and the back end came out and I was gobsmacked at how easy it was to provoke. However I had one of those moments where good luck exceeds talent and instead of spinning his brand new car I managed to catch it and drove through the corner like a hero in a controlled power slide (of course the sweat all of my body proved it was not a calm or relaxing experience😅).

[@andrewnorris5415]

@@acjdf it was a one off getting carried away at 3am. But yeah, as I said, not proud of it. I just went into the corner fast and braked late in the wet but did have the skills to catch it. The other one, the AX GT rear tyre running low caused it. Nothing I did wrong driving wise, was just going along at 60 on a b road in a straight line, and wham, I was into oversteer after hitting a bit pothole in the wet. It made me wake up to tyre pressures and checking them often. And the MR2 on the straight, that was really odd. Even my father had it let go there and he was super safe. He would have hated to have crashed. I was generally a very safe driver - never got a point. I just wanted to make a point about the handling of these cars so people know what they are up against - to help people.

[@andrewnorris5415]

When it came to day out for the work team, over 100 of us did the skid pan. which was a RWD Ford Sierra on shopping trolley wheels round cones. I got the fastest time and a trophy.

[@williamc6774]

I had a the 1995 mk2 which had 173bhp, the most powerful n/a model they did, and it was not dangerous ( that's just click bait nonsense). I only span it twice, both booting it off greasy wet leaved roundabouts in MK. Totally my own fault and much deserved, don't do that! Treat them with respect and they're utterly brilliant. I really miss mine. Beware the imported turbo's though, loony machines those.

[@MrRicardo11]

I had a Mk 2 and 3 GT T Bar back in the 90s and I horsed them both up and down the roads in Scotland 6 days a week without any problems. Both were wonderful to drive and I would buy another one in a heartbeat. Never ever had any handling issues with either of them

[@alaricbragg7843]

Thank you for this video. Another Gran Turismo 2 memory unlocked. These used to be very common cars in New Zealand but now you struggle to find one. That said, I recently met a local rally enthusiast who's car was one of these Toyotas - fitted with a Mitsubishi GTO V6!!!! Think home made Stratos!

[@reggiedixon2]

Poor man's Ferrari 348 - and motoring journalists decided that if you can spin a car this must be how they are driven by everyone.

[@richardnherron]

I had 2 Mk2 MR2s. An imported 1991 model and a UK 1997 T-Bar. I only had the backend step out unexpectedly once and it was literally on day 2 of ownership with a slightly over exuburant setting off from traffic lights while turning left in the wet . Never had any other unexpected moments in the years of ownership afterwards.

[@philipjamesparsons]

I brought one and it was a bit vague and not overly confidence inspiring. New shocks, springs and bushings changed all that.

[@Poolumpingas]

This video hits the nail on the head. I always say the same thing - it's not the MR2 itself, it's the accessibility of the vehicle. Anyone can buy an MR2 but as for other mid-engine sports cars, a Porsche is probably the next option (cost-wise). I bought my NA MR2 when I was 17 and then a Turbo when I was 18. I've never had an issue with my NA but in the early days of driving the Turbo, I definitely had a few dodgy moments. it was a steep learning curve but now they are both a joy to drive!

[@mikadavies660]

The V6 conversion is a beautiful version. The bhp and torque is much better and the balance is lovely.

[@11thHourRecords]

My 'rev 1' was used for 40,000 miles between 2005 and 2010. No dramas with handling, but the ditch-finder tyres it came with gave me the old 'bum twitch' on wet manholes so they were swapped out immediately. The brake calipers (front especially) had some reputation for seizing due to corrosion (I had to rebuild all during 6 years). Also, the underside chassis strut bracing was plain steel that could rust to pieces. So apart from anything else, poor upkeep would contribute to unexpected direction changes more than many other motors.

[@MartinandNatalieStone]

My J plate (91?) MK2 MR2 was perfectly behaved until one day in the wet when it did a 180 degree spin in the road, under acceleration. It wasn't lack of experience that caught me out, but the speed at which it happened. My previous car, a MK2 CRX, was a far better handling car, that you could use 100% of the power on. I never felt confident in the wet ever again, with it. In the dry, brilliant.

[@Rapscallion2009]

Yep - that was the problem. The little buggers just snap around the moment they break loose. They don't warn the driver with some squirming and squatting - they just go. Great on the race circuit - not to cool on a road car. Today they'd nail the thing down with TCS and Active yaw control and ESP and there would be far less of a problem.

[@motosnape]

Hi Jack. Thanks for that. I used to have an AW11 (the Mk1), I loved that car, and I frequently find myself online looking at examples for sale. It would be great if you could do your usual honest review.

[@richardeasther2569]

Toyota seemed to have convinced people that they could do no wrong - i think some people didn't think it could bite

[@john1703]

The first Honda NSX had notable front toe in and even more rear toe out, to make them very agile. The tires would last c. 5k miles if driven hard (as Mr Senna could do). Snap oversteer is an early 911, with the weight hanging out the back, if you lifted off mid corner. A properly set up MR2 is benign, like your lotus Elise, but a bit less agile because of the extra weight.

[@dghdavies]

I had two of these, the first brand new in 92 for 3 years, then second hand in 2005 for 10 years. Only had a single handling issue, travelling up a winding hill in the rain, lost traction on a wet metal manhole cover. Apart from that, no issues.

[@dadcars]

My first sports car was a Rev4 black t bar 👌😮‍💨 great video Jack! I always knew the Rev ones were more snappy and now I know why! 👏

[@philbLeprechaun]

I'd a rev4 sw20. Loved this car. On the road it was not at all dangerous. It taught me a lot about car control, I found it quite adjustable. It was hilarious on a track, big drift angles possible and the only time I ever spun it. The engine was a bit of a let down though, I would have much preferred a turbo. 175hp maybe but little torque and not a great noise.

[@barry7608]

Thanks I quite like the looks, and could certainly live with a revy engine, I ride a hyper bike 200hp and when you want to fang the twists there is nothing better than using the revs. I reckon some tweaking re motor and maybe suspension would customise a little without too much expense. Yep I like it, and would love a drive, we have some great roads here in Australia from very fast country to mountainous twisties. Take care

[@seanb9814]

I've owned a couple of the import turbo version. One rev3 with an Apexi ECU dyno tuned to 305bhp. That was huge fun!

[@ianjamieson3985]

Great review and great insights on the handling. Please gives us more handling content in your reviews. One Q: How much squirming through the corners can you ignore ie. Up to how fast and how tight a corner? If this is something you have to physically explore to find and that varies with the weather conditions then it represents an unpredictable element to the handling which is essentially dangerous.

[@asdreww]

The rev2+ version of the mk2 (1991 onwards) had quite a few chassis revisions that made it a bit softer and more compliant - different castor control arms on front, different sized wheels and staggered width tyres, suspension toe control arms on the rear were 'longer' (fixed more towards centre of car) so less toe changes during suspension travel. You need to try a JDM Mk2 Turbo - they are hilarious.

[@Carrera90]

Had a mkII imported GLimited Only hairy moment coming on to the M62 ….when I hit the accelerator on a slight crest. Apart from that, (after a 911 & 3 Cayman S’s), still one of the best cars I’ve had…bulletproof As always, fantastic, no bullshit video from Jack….you really nail it every time mate😎

[@Shyted]

Had a mk2 rev1, spun it once in insane rain as I just wasn’t giving it respect and/or concentrating. Luckily no damage. Never happened again, went on to drive in incredibly bad winter weather with no troubles, but with respect. Absolutely loved that car. Had it lowered, a blueflame exhaust and short shifter. Nothing better than getting the roof off on a lovely summer evening. I think the lad that bought it off me wrote it off.

[@jameswillard1]

The 1991-1992 car (in the US) did have a very high amount of lift throttle oversteer….. more than any car that I can recall driving. The 1993 onwards changes made a world of difference. I think my 1993 MR2 Turbo was one of the best handling cars I have ever owned…..and I’ve had some of the best

[@garyhawkins9246]

I aquaplaned my first 1995 T Bar in torrential rain on the A3 at around 40 mph and hit a stationary Multipla, I was working at a ski lodge in Bavaria at the time and my car control was pretty good, I think it was just physics… I bought another 1995 T bar within days and had a great deal of fun over the next 2 years before selling it, I loved that car

[@MP-fw4ub]

If I recall, and it's many years ago part of the problem Car Magazine had was down to someone forgetting to remove the rubber suspension transit blocks before they tested it, which made the car even more twitchy.

[@TheOriginalGeekyNoob]

Great review Jack, addressing the elephant in the room. They aren't fundamentally dangerous cars in the accepted sense, rather they CAN be dangerous when pitched to an inexperienced audience!

[@Vampirebear13]

Car prices & values are so strange in the UK (to me anyway) but I guess the low amounts are because the UK is a RHD market. If the car in this video were left hand drive, for sale here in the states, it would cost $30,000 minimum. Basketcases are around $12k to $15k. I drove a 93 or 94 t-top turbo 5 speed about 25 years ago & have wanted a MR2 since. The 2nd Gen cars seemed like a huge leap forward, compared to the Gen 1. Great video Jack !!!

[@bandwagon240]

Jalopnik has lost its way...10 years ago Jalopnik was alright.

[@plunder1956]

My good friend had one & drove it all over Europe & Britain fast, over 170,000 miles. It became utterly worn out & needed a major overhaul. But it never crashed & he loaded it full of technical equipment & guitars, even a bicycle. Again all over Europe. From Italy to Germany then over to London. Still running OK.

[@hkmonaro8153]

Would love to see a 4age equipped AE82 on the channel Jack, such fun little cars..

[@grimson]

I have a '93, after the suspension as modified by Toyota to reduce oversteer. If anything, it wants to understeer, so lifting off or braking mid-turn is the only way to get the tail to come around if that's what you want. Otherwise, it isn't going anywhere.

[@zerohikari2685]

They didn't make the car less effected by bumpsteer they just changed what it did under droop. The "Rev 2"s bumpsteer travels in an arc so it tries to toe in on both rebound and compression. That made the car always understeer. The "Rev 1" has a more progressive bumpsteer so you have more tuning options with it.

[@channex8179]

I had an AW11 Mk1 when I was in my early twenties which I wrote off and rebuilt, Then later bought an AW20 Mk2 which I spun a couple of times in the wet during my ownership, Luckily I didn't crash or damage it both times but owning that car certainly set me up well for driving RWD & Mid Engined cars.

[@Allan9966]

My 1990 Nissan 200SX turbo was always trying to kill me. The backend never wanted to stay where it should be. Wet roundabouts were always a challenge even when you weren't pushing along.

[@mentalmechanic]

I remember driving an h reg back in the 90's after having new tyres fitted. went round a bend at literally no more than 25/30mph and it swung round on me

[@brandonbentley5453]

The suspension firmed up with good anti-roll bars and stiff springs/shocks keeps the snap oversteer from creeping up. But ruins the ride, albeit. Any suspension works if you don't let it...😊

[@johndavies6253]

Many years ago I worked on a project for Saab where I had the pleasure of working with a professional stunt driver. He told me that he had worked on the launch of this car in the uk. A number of journalists had spun these on their test drive, but he and his colleagues had noticed an interesting pattern. The MR2 was launched with two different brands of tyres (not uncommon in the industry), the drivers accompanying the journalists noted that all the cars that spun were fitted with the same brand of Tyres, none of the cars fitted with the other brand spun. In the later days of the launch, all remaining launch cars had their tyres changed to the same brand. Can’t remember the brands involved, sorry.

[@daveblock4061]

The GT in the US was a turbocharged 200 hp 2.0 liter. Never driven one but have driven the Series I and Series III.

[@vintagebicyclenut5764]

Was a passenger in a 1991 MR2 Turbo . Snap oversteer was frightening

[@spinnetti]

I wouldn't say it was "Dangerous", but like an early 911 you had to have healthy respect for what it was going to do to you if you get it wrong. From 84-93, the MR2 was a handful. 93 on it was revised and less wicked. Early ones understeer in and oversteer out. I certainly spun my MKI unexpectedly a few times and in the snow it was a deathtrap. On my MKI's I moved the battery to the nose to improve front end grip and balance it out better. On the racetrack I didn't trust the MR2 enough so raced an AE86 instead, but drove the MR2 on the street. The MK2 needs the v6 swap and the MKI really transform with a swap to the 20v Levin engine which is what I put in one of mine.

[@markbennett6658]

I noted the Jalopnik article referenced the TURBO MR2. That was JDM only I believe and only a few of them are over here as grey imports. The UK market cars (even the early ones - I had a 1990 GT T-Bar) didn’t really have enough torque low down to make them readily oversteer and as Jack says unfortunately that engine became coarse sounding at higher revs discouraging thrashing it. So definitely not a death trap in normally aspirated form. I could imagine the turbo version perhaps getting a bit snappy when the boost kicked in though? Overall a well built little car, with nice initial throttle response and pointy steering but better for posing around town with the T-tops out than giving it some. Not really a mini Ferrari for the poor man!

[@stevelovescars]

I drove one extensively in period, a turbo. The scary experience I ever had was in a snowstorm.. it loved to spin. In other conditions it was fine. On a fun DRY curvy road it was magical.

[@sergioleone3583]

A friend of mine who had owned many and driven many more sports cars and GTs had MK1 and MK2 MR2s. Apparently the first couple of years of the MK2 had a tricky set up that scared even Dan Gurney but by the last two years of the MK2 they'd sorted it and it was a really great car overall. I'll take either a MK1 or MK2 any day, especially a MK1 Supercharged. (My mom had a naturally aspirated MK1 when I was 18-26, and it was a lot of fun.)

[@philipgreensmith1694]

Wasn't the supercharged version only available JDM? Japanese domestic market?

[@grimson]

@@philipgreensmith1694 The supercharged was the MK1. MK2 only had NA and turbo.

[@philipgreensmith1694]

@grimson yes I know that. Just didn't think we got it in England same as the mk2 turbo. Thought they were import only

[@sergioleone3583]

@@philipgreensmith1694 I'm in the USA, was in California at the time. We got the supercharged MK1s and then the turbo MK2s each generation. I used to see the supercharged ones from time to time, mostly in white which looked good on the car.

[@SpacehotelMusic]

@@philipgreensmith1694 They were import only. I have one in my garage (1988 dark blue). Had an SC for 20 years now.

[@thandargor1677]

Had a Mark 1, if the back went out it would always catch and then fling the car back the other way, like there was a lateral spring in the suspension. I could catch the second slide, but unless it was a slight drift it was impossible to catch the reverse snap. It was quite easy to get a gentle drift on a roundabout but even then the moment the tyres gripped was quite wobbly.