Unleash the Sniper: Marksmanship Hunter Changes in WoW The War Within!

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M+ Sample Build: C4PApY95iq8omCWoDUR49m6lOYmtZYYsNmlGbzMskZjZDAAAAAAgZmZMmZMmZmZmZmxgZGGzMAAAAAAAwMMMmZWmxMTzMGjZmhZZYGzA
CLASS TREE VIDEO: • WoW Hunter Class Tree ...
BM TREE VIDEO: • The War Within Hunter ...
SV TREE VIDEO: • Survival Hunter Revolu...
PATREON: / azortharion
STREAM: / azortharion
DISCORD: / discord
HUNTER COACHING: / discord
0:00 Intro
01:06 Reviewing Every Talent
01:11 AoE Kit Cost Rant
01:46 NEW: Precise Shots Rework
2:52 Build Disclaimer
3:05 Why does Improved Steady Shot exist? Also Crack Shot
4:00 NEW: Crit also owns for Marksmanship in The War Within
4:39 Reviewing Every Talent
5:18 NEW: Superjuiced Minigun Rapid Fires
6:45 Who really likes Careful Aim?
8:30 Reviewing Every Talent
9:18 Multi-Shot Damage is Insane in The War Within
9:29 Reviewing Every Talent
10:01 STEADY FOCUS - Everyone's Favourite
11:13 Reviewing Every Talent
13:45 NEW: RAPID FIRE BARRAGE! Need I say more?
15:07 Reviewing Every Talent
15:19 Lone Wolf and are MM Hunters using Pets in TWW?
19:16 Reviewing Every Talent
20:52 NEW WAILING ARROW and Legacy of the Windrunners
23:52 Readiness Feels Bad
26:48 Reviewing Every Talent
27:44 NEW Eagletalon's True Focus Detail
28:45 1-minute Trueshot Builds?
30:00 Multi-Shot is insane Part 2
33:36 Reviewing Every Talent
34:35 Feedback Summary
36:27 Making an MM AoE Build
42:53 Making an MM Single-Target Build
45:21 Pathing Issues, AoE Build Issues
47:19 Outro

[@Azortharion]

What other videos/content would you like to see? Reply to this comment and upvote the ones you agree with.

[@harribarri1141]

Lone wolf changes are frustrating. If i wanna micromanage a pet i would play BM\Survival. Lone wolf baseline, Lone wolf doesnt give you damage, Lone wolf is a hawk that just randomly attacks your primary target to make up for your loss of a pet and you keep all your utility. Then you can have glyphs that change it from a hawk or other pets, or to a small pet on your shoulder that throws stuff

[@dalq879]

It is really weird how Salvo is completely detached from Volley in the tree. I get it that it works with Multishot too but lets be honest, no one uses it with Multishot. One of the reasons they created Salvo as an active ability in DF was actually to decouple it from Multishot if im not mistaken, because it was really frustrating to have to hold Multishot (and thus trickshots) on enemies that were about to die just not to proc the then passive Salvo. Volley is such a cool ability, I could see it being a "capstone". Move it to the penultimate row, bake Salvo into it, making it only work with Volley, and add the current MM 2pc as the capstone right under Volley so we can get at least a bit of 2 target cleave. Delete Night Hunter as its a boring talent, move Tactical Reload to its place and Bring Small Game Hunter in place of TR, nerf it a little (it will be nerfed lmao) to justify the easier pathing. Then Volley with the 2pc talent could take the place of SGH -> Salvo.

[@gapplebees9295]

For Lone Wolf, I was thinking it should work like Sacrifice for warlocks but I love the stance idea!

[@jjtallz1976]

Literally logged in to post this exact thing. Make it work like Warlock Sacrifice where we get the command pet ability when sacrificed.

[@omniX1D3]

Sacrificing your best friend and companion….. dark.

[@Tiamat1986]

Careful Aim should work like it used to in WoD. In WoD, in addition to the early fight bonus, we would get it's effect every time we activated our offensive CD (Rapid Fire by that time). It should still work like that. Every time we activate Trueshot it should also activate Careful Aim.

[@alexis1156]

Good idea

[@lxlADlxl]

For the wowhead talent calculator, you can just remove the point from aimed shot and the whole tree will reset.

[@tmgjurassic3738]

Great video, thank you.

[@TheMost4422]

If I’m playing marksmanship I don’t want a pet out, pet Ai still sucks tremendously. Just make it like warlock sacrifice and give me the ability the pet would have.

[@LATHSPELL70]

Yes you do! You get another defensive. Also they are slamming with a pet.

[@omniX1D3]

If I’m playing a Hunter I always want a pet to be central to the fantasy. Marksmanship being the one shot one kill stalker. I don’t think Lone Wolf should exist and if it did it should be the weaker version of MM. you shouldn’t get rewarded for making the gameplay easier. With that said I do think we should maybe have another ranged physical DPS class. Maybe Rogue, Warrior or Monk could get a pure archer build.

[@IndieNuzzle]

@@omniX1D3what exactly is easier without a pet? I doubt 99% of the playerbase uses the pet control features to call, send, or follow, and they have virtually no use outside of extremely niche cases, mists being one.

[@kyuxe]

@@omniX1D3 and there are people who prefer the hunter ranger fantasy for marksman, that doesn't involve pets for many. there are already two specs which are heavily dependant on a pet. at least let us have some variety.

[@sergiosmg550]

Thanks!

[@sorrowfulsea825]

current tier set 100% needs to be baked into our talents. Make multi shot and trick shots base line and replace those two talents with our current tier set, albeit maybe make the volley procs less strong, and remove the damage increase to rapid fire.

[@bajas191]

Considering that Focused aim is going to be a 1 point talent, in the single target setup you can get both Calling the shots and Kill zone at @44:50

[@Waevform]

OMG my body is so ready for "Lone Wolf stance bar"... Please Blizz! Implementing Hunters with stances would completely solve pet spec debate. True pet freedom!

[@dark9nine]

Lone wolf should be something cool why overcomplicate things. I just hope they already just embrace the idea of MM as a sniper class

[@Perways]

Hey thx for the video. Just one suggestion. Is it possible to make your mouse cursor more highlighted? I am watching it from mobile and sometimes I have a hard time following the cursor location pointing the talent node.

[@okCool51]

I wish the Sidewinders and Marked Shot build from Legion would come back, really liked the feel and visuals of it.

[@ammertos1517]

Yes, loved that too. Even likes vulnerable

[@RichardBrown-dh4xe]

The stance idea is goated and would bring back some flavor from how aspects use to be, and let BM have a talent tree for pets to stop restraining pet spells from the pet families.

[@Kekoleet]

i feel like the wailing arrow would fit better in the dark ranger tree not sure what it would replace for bm (perhaps cobra shot?) though i don't think they want another cast x cobrashots to cast one abiltiy xD, maybe move black arrow to something that replaces serpent sting? would give more shadow damage too for the things that boost shadow damage as well. not sure what you would replace it with in mm tree.

[@DERG0se]

Tauren and dwarf was in dragonflight big for hunter. But now they are insane races. 2% crit dmg 😮

[@KaitN9]

Would that be so difficult to make the winds arrow that do physical damages into shadow arrows that do shadow damages when you are a Dark Ranger?

[@ronie619linas]

I'm almost sure that Careful Aim was crafted more towards PvP, where targets tend to be healed above 70% most of the time, so you apply constant pressure with your base damage, which otherwise isn't very significant outside of Trueshot.

[@Saucemixer]

I would like Readiness being turned down to 1 charge and maybe some dmg amp instead.

[@jamesmorseman3180]

Careful aim should read “aimed shot deals 50% increased damage to targets above 85% max hp or below 15% max hp” Would allow for MM to be bursting in pvp still in the opener while giving some execute value as well

[@sorinchitu4881]

Hello! i want to suggest that the lone wolf buff to apply instantly after you dismiss the pet. another suggestion but i think this one is a harder one to make it real is to change mastery with versatility :))

[@jean-lucpoliquin7461]

Lone wolf talent should work as grimoire of sacrifice, you dismiss the pet and still gaining the benefit...

[@Xeanowos]

Why do we even have chimera shot? It's never picked, ever.

[@gampie13]

it's due to that it used to be a defining part of marksman, way back when it was a cd heavy hitting ability that CHUNKED. Ever since they changed it to a focus generator and later in legion to an alternative to multi shot, it's never been used. aka, ever since they changed it from not being a heavy hitter on a cd alone, it's never been usefull. it used to hitt harder than aimed shots back in the day, since it dealt magic dmg, and it used to interact with stings to give you nice effects in both pve and pvp

[@zmcnabb]

Kill shot procs are the most fun thing hunter has had since the rework in legion. I think you also didn't notice that razor fragments buffs kill shot damage by 75% on beta and only 50% on live, I think it will be viable in both st (obviously) and aoe.

[@Azortharion]

Razor fragments kill shots are still infinitely weaker than aimed shots, rf's.

[@kritteykat]

thank you ^.^ /

[@jakob18DK]

Another annoying thing about wailing arrow is that it is still a slow cast shot in our Trueshot window cause wailing arrow gets no 50% faster cast time from trueshot so it ruin our burst window even worse if we got readiness then we will start trueshot of with a slow wailing arrow when we really wanna spam aimed shot n rapid fire.

[@Azortharion]

That's just a bug. They've said that Wailing Arrow will inherit all of the bonuses and basically act exactly like an Aimed Shot. Currently on the beta, it doesn't - but it's a bug/NYI that will be fixed.

[@jakob18DK]

@@Azortharion ok good to know

[@mattbrown570]

With all the changes to multi-shot is it fair to say that MM has some form of 2 traget cleave now even though there isnt trick shots?

[@Jhonz0r]

🐐

[@rm10075]

Rework's weird to me because I like the idea with some of the changes, but I think I was always going to be disappointed if they didn't bake the Rapid Fire>Volley extendo tier set into the talents. It's particularly bizarre to exclude some version of it while still leaving some extremely boring 0 gameplay talents in, and even some near 0 value talents (like Imp SS, Steady Focus, and Chimaera). Seems like the most free win to me to just do Volley extension in some form and there's plenty of room to trim the fat to slot it in somewhere. Even with current tuning causing Multi-Shot to feel good to press in terms of throughput, I just find the gameplay less fun when RF/Aimed are constantly sitting off CD during Trueshot where the main point is reducing RF/Aimed CD. It isn't really about big numbers, I just think it feels way better to play with Volley extension. Although I personally enjoy trying to squeeze Rapid Fire resets into the weaker isolated Volley windows, they could even scrap that and do something simple like a capstone that activates Trick Shots indefinitely while Trueshot is active.

[@plnathan2392]

Hi azor, great feedback ! Can we have a link on the blizzard form for hunter feedback ?

[@Azortharion]

I think you mean this: us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-hunters/1870407

[@plnathan2392]

@@Azortharion looks like it but idk why I cant post "my" feedback tho

[@ammertos1517]

Since not taking Lone Wolf gives us a talent point, it's not really 5% we loose in AOE, right?

[@Azortharion]

Nope, it's a bit less.

[@Dr_J_Daniels]

What’s the point of Volly when you multishot anyways? Also no pets pls…

[@EriclesMH]

Razor fragments still isn't good with the buff to it?

[@Azortharion]

Well, it's pretty good, but given where it is in the tree, it's competing with some of the best talents in the entire tree for AoE and as I mention, we cannot have everything.

[@EriclesMH]

@@Azortharion I hear ya, thought maybe you missed that it was buffed since i dont remember you mentioning it...all good :)

[@TheMost4422]

Do we know why they removed Double Tap? Such a fun ability to use, I never understood why they got rid of a great talent

[@Azortharion]

PvP, I think.

[@IBrain7896]

@@Azortharion in pvp double tap + RF was to broken, it one tap a player, and they could not found a balance between pvp double tap being to broken and a pve double tap being to weak, so they decide to remove it

[@louishague1878]

Surely if we can now intimidation without a pet, we should be able to lust without a pet ?

[@Rhordric]

Oh rapid fire shooting more shots is more durability loss lol

[@arrrrrghimapirate]

Having to spec into historically baseline abilities feels terrible.

[@littlebasskid]

I'm not sure if I agree with this AOE build, Salvo is a must for MM AOE. Having an extra explosive shot does so much damage especially with higher mastery and crit

[@Calypsode1]

I'm determined to make a viable build that resembles old SV

[@DavidCaddock]

Give MM primal fury talent in the spec tree

[@johnthebarbarian]

Hello everyone instead of hello hunters?? 😮

[@Fleury4]

Chimaera needs to be more useful it is an iconic marksman ability.

[@gampie13]

it should go back to being a cd heavy hitter like it was originaly

[@tyy94]

bring back df season 3 tier plz

[@palfotta]

So in m+ BM and MM still wont have utility at all, and still have to use drums => still will be a meme class. Bad news :( In PvP these changes looks nice tho :)

[@drewbediah8744]

Summon pet. Dismiss pet. Cast Lust near the end of dismiss pet cast. Why would you ever use drums as a hunter… It should be like lock sac, but it’s not that bad.

[@palfotta]

@@drewbediah8744 Because in pug nobody wait for your summon / dismiss fiesta they pull instantly and want you press BL asap. + as a BM hunter 50% of the time your second pet bugged and does not appear when you switch pets (it will appear eventually, but you lose dps for minutes). So most of the hunters use drums instead, no punish, no bugs...

[@PrezJesus]

I must be the only person who liked the steady focus gameplay - it was nice having to maintain a buff's uptime as well as giving you more value for when you have to move around (refreshing the buff).

[@shianova]

For the love of god Blizzard, 20 expansions later and i still have to waste my time getting my pet out just for the lust...

[@Dumbmelee]

first 🐐

[@iconqt9339]

Thematically, i hate that their solution to the mm pet / lone wolf issue is to make using a pet less of a damage loss. To me, the mm fantasy is to be a solo sniper - there are a number of ways to provide pet utility to mm without encouraging the actual use of a pet. There is no reason that lust shouldn't be baseline.

[@seluhir8820]

The problem with that theory is that, and while I get that this is becoming LESS common as more of the older playerbase quit, hunters were sold as a pet class. That is what the hunter fantasy was. Lone Wolf was added because, at a certain point, pet AI was so frustrating in raids that people just wanted them to stop dying or pulling everything in a raid, and lone wolf was the inelegant solution to that... but there are still some hunters out there for who the marksmanship playstyle is their preference... but they have an emotional attachment to their pets. It was one of the reasons I took a break from the game for a few expansions - they killed the survival playstyle I knew and loved(yes, I predate melee survival and still resent it), and I didn't like BM at the time and MM forced me to not have a pet... so I quit for a time. The idea that a hunter spec should be FORCED to not use a pet is something *I* hate probably more than you hate that using a pet becomes less of a loss. Reconciling the two viewpoints of 'I like marksmanship but like having a pet' vs 'I think marksmanship shouldn't have a pet' is difficult, and Blizzard is trying their best... but there's no perfect solution.

[@iconqt9339]

@@seluhir8820 Interesting you mention the older player base, as I'm actually one of the (probably?) few people left from the vanilla days. Yes, I'm old. I also vehemently dislike the melee survival transition, as WoD black arrow / explosive shot era of survival was probably the most fun I've had with the spec, and it was ripped to shreds with new SV in Legion. There's lots of discussion to be had there, but I think I feel that ultimately reverting the change and making SV ranged again would be alienating the entire player base that enjoys it as a melee spec (even though ranged SV would be my preference). And that's exactly my problem with this change to lone wolf as well. Whatever hunter was sold as originally is not what we've come to expect. Marksman has not had any valuable interaction with their pet for longer than SV has been a melee spec. The pet doesn't interact with your rotation meaningfully, and hasn't for a very long time. It just kind of runs around doing its own thing, and micromanaging it's movement leads to extremely smalls gains for the effort invested. I just don't agree with being pushed more towards pet based gameplay for MM, when lone wolf has been a staple of the spec for over a decade. Make lone wolf give you the ability to cast bloodlust without a pet. Make it a button you can push to call a pet and have it lust, and disappear after 5 seconds. Make dismissing your pet instant cast, but add the cast time to the summon instead. Make lone wolf an active ability that gives you the choice of what to set its on use to before combat - lust / fort / freedom / other class based utility - and remove hunter's mark damage. There are so many other options available for solving the pet utility issue that I feel just aren't being explored, and nerfing lone wolf's effectiveness to entertain a fantasy that is already solidified in the other 2 specs is counterproductive to what I've come to expect from MM. If you're into micromanaging your pet, BM rewards that effort much more than MM ever will/has. If you're NOT into pet based gameplay, but want to live the ranged solo sniper fantasy, this change actively makes that experience worse. Just my thoughts. Feel free to disagree.

[@seluhir8820]

@@iconqt9339 The point is: Hunters should never be FORCED to not have a pet. I am fine with MM having the option to not have a pet, but it should be that - an option. If they can somehow make it so Lone Wolf is dps neutral, then I'd absolutely support making the utility baseline. I'd also be in favour of making the lone wolf effect baseline so no talents need to be specced but its simply a playstyle choice. People who want their pet don't necessarily want the class to be 100% about the pet which is where you're misunderstanding. Some people want to have their pet with them, but still be an archer. They want their primary gameplay to be 'I am an archer but I have an animal companion with me' - ie. the hunter's ORIGINAL fantasy - the fantasy that sold me on this game back in beta. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate BM - its fun - but playing it I miss actually being a relevant part of my class. BM IS the pet. Which is what it should be. But MM with pet should still exist as an option that is roughly equal so people can have the classic 'ranger with a pet' fantasy that hunters were sold on SOMEWHERE in the class.

[@Vindicator1998]

It’s utterly ridiculous the two things mm has been begging for; instant Aimed shot and baseline lust are still not present

[@seluhir8820]

So happy they got rid of the talent that was ONLY accessible by going through lone wolf and nerfed LW a bit. Lone Wolf is obviously still going to be optimal for sims... but its nice to not feel as bad about wanting your pet even when going marksmanship.

[@TJR123]

How I wish only BM had pets... surv and MM with no pets is a pipe dream of mine that I will never see :(

[@seluhir8820]

@@TJR123 Uhh.... if you want survival without pets, play a rogue or a warrior? lol Really the ONLY distinguishing fact between survival and other melee right now IS the pet.

[@TJR123]

@@seluhir8820 the only difference currently is the pet. You are correct. In my dream, range is the difference... Give surv something between Devoker and melee.

[@harribarri1141]

@@seluhir8820 Survival isnt really like rogue or warrior though. Without a pet survival is more like a ret pally since its mostly mid range damage but instead ofholy\plate you are high mobility tinker\engineer.

[@NovembersDooom]

Of course you leave survival for last. Just like blizzard always does 😔

[@gunrunnergaming]

In this case it is leave the best for last, Survival is in a great spot!

[@danieljablecki]

Best rework and most interesting gameplay atleast

[@user-do8ch5zk6x]

No hard feelings, but this is pure alphabetical issue: first comes B, then M and lastly S.

[@boggybog]

Multishot does no damage shouldnt be a freakn talent for any of the spec.

[@Evilmon2]

Multi-Shot is actually doing crazy damage for MM on the beta right now. Our highest damage in AoE even.

[@jasonroman578]

Ever meet a MM hunter that refuses to use a pet to lust? Hahaha what scrubs

[@naemesis9187]

🐐

[@Acoustifi]

🐐

[@Buckit101]

🐐