WoW Hunter Class Tree Overhaul/Rework: All You Need to Know! | The War Within

BM TREE VIDEO: • The War Within Hunter ...
MM TREE VIDEO: • Unleash the Sniper: Ma...
SV TREE VIDEO: • Survival Hunter Revolu...
STREAM: / azortharion
DISCORD: / discord
HUNTER COACHING: / discord
0:00 Intro
1:06 Reviewing Every Talent
2:54 Survival of the Fittest Nerf But Mostly Buff
3:28 Reviewing Every Talent
4:38 Survival of the Fittest 2 Charges and Shorter CD
6:21 Reviewing Every Talent
07:55 Everyone has Explosive Shot all the time!
08:38 Reviewing Every Talent
9:21 AoE Stop But Not Really - Also MM Petless Stun
12:01 Reviewing Every Talent
14:29 Please just make Binding Shot a long root again.
15:14 Bursting Shot AoE Stop?! Probably not..
16:37 Reviewing Every Talent
18:32 Global +5% Crit Value for Hunters
19:19 Reviewing Every Talent
22:14 Free Poison and Disease Self-Dispel!
23:30 Is Hunter a DoT Class Now?
24:24 Outro

[@Azortharion]

What other videos/content would you like to see? Reply to this comment and upvote the ones you agree with.

[@Greenzool]

One thing I'm surprised isn't in the class tree is an instant pet ress CD, Obviously pet death is quite rare if you're a good player but it would be a nice button to have for those freak accidents where a boss or large pack randomly 1 shots the pet out of nowhere, Think it could fill a spot on the tree comfortably without also being an auto include

[@raechu_01210]

IIRC That was something mentioned as specifically not being given to hunters in... Shadowlands maybe? Because they want killing pets to be a big deal in pvp.

[@anthony11100]

Impossible instant rez, op pvp

[@GnarutaM]

Pets gets killed in aoe by mobs so yeah. But not same story with PVP

[@Azortharion]

Fair enough to people saying this would be OP for PvP, but there's a talent in our Class Tree (Roar of Sacrifice) that is literally only useful in PvP. So it probably wouldn't be amiss to have an instant pet rezz with "Does not work in Arena/Battlegrounds" in there as well.

[@actionjoe22]

Don't Warlocks have the ability to instant rez their pet on CD?

[@gregorychauvin4869]

You're my favorite hunter KZbin, so good!!

[@JimmyTwoCoats]

Great review, looking forward to the spec tree reviews.

[@DurendilLeHunt]

I can confirm that that Wilderness medicine was nerfed, its 50/50 at two point. This is a little bit bad, but to be fair, my frustration with pet tanking since BFA is the health pool. Pets don't die gradually, in high damage intake fights you nearly never know if your pet will be alive in 4 seconds or survive.

[@ungulatemanalpha]

My preferred option when it comes to letting Hunters have an AoE stop - if we think it's necessary - would be to make High-Explosive Trap briefly knock up enemies it hits.

[@selwrynn6702]

But currently it's knockback is really nice for moving mobs out of things like Sanguine

[@Bookofscrawls]

​@@selwrynn6702yeah but with bursting shot you get a more reliable directional push, and have the knock up for group cc

[@ungulatemanalpha]

I will say I REALLY like Emergency Salve. It's a great fit thematically, feels appropriately powerful yet situational for a class capstone, and is something firmly in the player's control rather than a random proc or passive bonus, without bloating out the number of utility buttons the class has.

[@Les-Wolf]

You have to keep into account that not everyone does just PVE. People do PVP so bursting shot serves a purpose in PVP.

[@tc63132]

For real he acts flabbergasted by certain talents like cheetah freedom that are SO good for pvp lol. Steel trap is a dead talent? Get outa here

[@seagk1343]

Keeping the comment to class tree relevant synergy, these are MASSIVE improvements and much better than I was expecting. I think you’re spot on about bursting shot being necessary for the 10% dmg reduc. I feel bursting shot was always more of a Hunter’s last emergency if a threat got too close. The ability fantasy made sense, even if it’s functionally worse. The MM 10% attack speed will make Locked And Loaded procs more frequent if taken. I have a suspicion it will be more common with the removal of the DF S3&4 Set bonus. My only concern is MM becomes like Havoc DH right now stacking high crit low mastery gear permanently because of how strong crit is going to be for MM with the addition of serrated tips and MM tree’s penetrating shots.

[@MichaelSaxer]

Chimera Shot has no use basically, Blizz should make it activate trick shots on two targets. Maybe with a node right after it... maybe with a reduced percentage trick shots, idk it would still be niche, but could still be useful on certain bosses; M+ dungeons.

[@user-ei5du1gd7d]

Thank you for your insight Azortharion! Many good points, but regarding Binding Shot you have to keep in mind that as a stun it's a very strong ability in pvp and should it be converted to a root, that will be a substantial nerf to pvp hunter players. Regarding Moment of Opportunity, seems like a strong pvp talent. Can be utilized quite nicely in m+ as well by throwing a tar trap, which will trigger even on bosses just to get that 3 second boost speed. Gonna be awkward to use, but efficient.

[@trhoads07]

Thanks for your thoughts and this video. I am looking forward to the other 3. This Beta is taking a very long time to download but once it is done I will log on and mess around with the changes to Hunters.

[@stupiddoeswow]

Thanks for this video dude, we appreciate you!

[@K1NETIX1983]

Great video, didn't catch some of these details just reading the announcement so this was helpful :D

[@bucksisson7649]

Oh thank fuck. I've been waiting for your take on these changes all day

[@ungulatemanalpha]

An idea for Territorial Instincts: "Intimidation summons your pet if it is not active and additionally stuns the closest enemy to you." Literally have it be 'territorial instincts', with your pet always going for whoever or whatever is threatening you, while giving the hunter more control over what gets hit by the extra stun. I think a two-target full duration stun feels better than a weird three-target that half-stuns two of them.

[@IBrain7896]

thats means the tank lost aggro (use miss direction) or just usefull in open world, because you are not supose to get thing go after you in m+ and raid

[@LuckyLuke1707]

The video I‘ve been waiting for!

[@arrrrrghimapirate]

More than anything I want survival to go back to being closer to it's Cataclysm version. That was a great time for the spec and it felt good to play. Current iteration is an identity crisis. They have abilities that definitely feel more in line with BM. If anything they should make BM the melee spec and make survival back to being a ranged dot spec with a nuke again.

[@Gnew95]

I can see Ghillie suit having some niche uses in boss fights with slow telegraphed bursts of damage. You could most likely set up a macro to drop combat using feign death/play dead/pet passive or something along those lines and then go camo. This could be done before an upcoming burst of damage if really needed. You could use this in a pinch if out of defensives or even combine this with survival of the fittest if the burst will be massive. Likely not helpful all the time but something to consider!

[@Azortharion]

You cannot drop combat with Feign outside of trash packs sadly. So, still occasionally useful, but only for M+ trash.

[@nimas.pourmand7368]

Thanks Azor, appreciate the insight as always.

[@anjohnette5639]

You must be the Barbed Shot Weak Aura dude! It's named after you.

[@Azortharion]

That's mine, yep!

[@nl626c5]

The Intimidation node needs to convert it to a stomp stop with a shorter duration stun. Imo.

[@madsboandersen5316]

Survival hunters and their new mastery is currently versatility on steroids. But I am sure you will get to it!

[@sachamarinescu4897]

Hey! there is no ranged description on the bursting shot , so my guess is that's you can use it from far away, on scatter shot you've got a range in the tooltip

[@selwrynn6702]

My class tree feedback: 1. Make Scare Beast baseline, it is so niche that there is almost never any reason to select it, as Azortharion said you might grab it for Incorporeal weeks but didn't they just remove that? Even in PvP there are better ways of dealing with another Hunter's pet. 2. There are a lot of conditionals baked into these talents, I'd like to go through and maybe remove some of them to make certain talents more universally useable, specifically talents like: Binding Shackles, a 10% DR for 8sec after you incap something but typically if you incaped them you will have out ranged them so they can't hit you again in those 8sec. Quick Load, falling below 40% health in high end content typically means you're about to be dead, having a bursting/scatter shot probably won't help you live, the ICD is a bit strange but I figure this is for PvP which is the only content I see anyone even considering this. Moment of Opportunity, you get 3sec of cheetah when a trap triggers but only once a minute, why would I ever grab this over Tranq Shot or Misdirect or Binding as a flex point, this is just not powerful enough to ever select. Ghillie Suit, you don't really take damage in Camo & you can't cast Camo in combat, so this does next to nothing in raid, and at best a tiny little bit in PvP & M+, but the fix could be simple, allow it to be useable while in combat. I do worry that adding this as a DR would however make us TOO tanky when combined with Turtle, Exhil & Surv o the Fit (which will have 2 charges on a 1min CD) so maybe make it a +damage effect instead of a DR. 3. Territorial Instincts AoE component needs some work. 4. With Steel Trap's bleed effect & all the bonuses they're adding to damage based on number of DoTs on target it'd be nice if they made it the single target damage trap while High Explosive was the AoE damage trap. 5. An extra talent point for an additional 1sec of stun duration on Binding shot seems really expensive, either add some extra effect to it or bake it in & remove it. 6. Kindling Flare should be baked into Flare as an ability & removed from the talent tree. 7. It's nice that Roar of Sacrifice is out of the way for PvE as PvP are the only people who consider it, but it'd be cool if it did something for PvE too. Scout's Instinct is kind of funny because that effect is baked in to a DKs Death's Advance. Pretty sure that Bursting Shot is there more for PvP rather than PvE

[@Ty-oe4dr]

it feels weird to have black arrow return, but not for survival. it should return to play into the explosive shot proc gameplay style that they seem to be returning to

[@TheKerack]

Trigger Finger helps with LnL procs

[@tmgjurassic3738]

Great summary, thank you.

[@sagitarium2788]

Thanks for the video , as always amazing job :)

[@diddyboppin69]

aye; we appreciate you! tyty

[@unitech380]

Thanks king

[@Rhordric]

They need to double bursting shot range at least. Its already a bad clone of typhoon with the only difference being a very small damage hit. Bring its range up from the 8yd to the 15 of base typhoon at least. Tho I'm pre sure they have talents to boost that further

[@jakegoins9509]

good vid as a bm hunter we will be good for this next xpac

[@makm.4595]

i really hope they fix the cd reduction talents for SoTF for testing m+ and raid

[@Archbane]

There is a steel trap attached to the new tier set pants, Steel trap / dots build confirmed XD

[@Shadowf1re]

I really wish they would allow dw survival with swords and axes along with 2h weapons.

[@GPalango]

This is some good shit cuz!

[@netz90500]

Thank you for your analysis! I am a mm hunter who mainly does mythic + in +14/15. The different changes to the survivability of the hunt are really a good thing! I hope this will allow us to reach higher key levels than currently. One problem still persists unfortunately, we don't buff the group as good as most DPS. I look forward to your future videos !

[@ammertos1517]

my feedback since BFA : Get rid of Trick Shots and if we can't have that, make it activate at 2 targets

[@wowprobeast7543]

What’s wrong with trick shots? It’s so sick, and from a role play standpoint it’s awesome. “I’m a bad ass sniper bouncing bullets between enemies to cause more damage” and if you only want it on two targets there is a talent for that currently in df XD

[@eqr8926]

permanantly getting 70% cleave damage on 2 targets is op, closest thing is warrior's sweeping strikes and thats on a 30 second cd. we already have volley and chimaera shot to handle 2 targets. it does suck that bombardment isnt on the tree anymore (makes kill shot proc trick shots)

[@bryantomasko1015]

Bring back dual wield and give the option to lone wolf for survival… so gameplay would be just weaving from ranged to melee. That would be fun

[@IBrain7896]

i still think MMhunters could have blood lust out of the pet, or use a grimore like warlocks. Kinda sucks being the one with summ pet dismiss pet and bl when others class with bl just press the buttom.

[@scaryeri6798]

your comment on DH is wrong btw, the fury gain on interrupt is a talent node that no one takes, it isn't baked in to the ability

[@wowkaz4539]

Thanks for this.

[@damirvaleev1293]

Other ranges also have melee knockbacks/aoe cc: mage-dragons breath, shaman-thunderstorm, druid-typhoon, priest-scream. Why you think hunter's Bursting Shot should be range ability?

[@DERG0se]

Has mm lock and load? If so attack speed is good for bm and mm

[@Dumbmelee]

🐐

[@pablomontoya8879]

Ty azor i appreciates you

[@samward1317]

You're not giving bursting shot enough credit. Having to be in melee to use just makes it exactly the same blast wave. Much needed M+ utility and one of the best changes to the tree.

[@BatmanRZ]

i still want a rexxar spec hunter BM melee

[@kasper1241]

I'm still not sold on hunter utility. Hunter's Mark should be applied like Chaos Brand to make it relevant for M+. And we need a reliable AOE stun.

[@Ragovski]

They can change Territorial Instincts to a short aoe knockback to make it reliable in m+

[@Azortharion]

Don't we have enough knockbacks between High-Explosive Trap and Bursting Shot? I'd just like a completely ordinary AoE stop at this point.

[@Ragovski]

​@@Azortharionknockback like shaman's earthquake/talented thunderstorm, without moving mobs

[@Azortharion]

@@Ragovski Ah, knock-up. I mean, that's fine I guess, but just flavor-wise I think "Intimidation" suggests more of a Stun effect.

[@Shallanor]

💪🏼💪🏼

[@-Cutiey-]

Ty for the Video, I do agree with everything you say but I just dont like Explosive Shot, the spell just for me doesnt fit in the playstyle of BM :)

[@ChrisCauchi-mp3os]

Steel trap applies a dot. BM and surv both have nodes that give you %dmg based on dot use but it currently does not affect it which I see as a bug

[@Azortharion]

I don't think this is the kind of bug you want fixed really..

[@exorzon]

@@Azortharion Exactly this! I beg Blizz just let it be!

[@ChrisCauchi-mp3os]

It turns a 25s cc button into a DMG one, albeit it a small one. It adds complexity to ST rotations which are quite stale, but allows for skill expression. I see these as only positives. Using it 8-10x a fight doesn't seem much worse than explosive shot and has a better interaction

[@dimondblade]

@@ChrisCauchi-mp3os I have to ask. Did you play SV in shadowlands when they were using Nesingwary's Trapping Apparatus. It was an obnoxious play style while also providing the highest single target.

[@ChrisCauchi-mp3os]

@@dimondblade I did not play that cause I don't want to weave in every trap every 5s. But one every 25s is fine

[@betahumanx]

I don't like the fact I will have to press Kill Command just to apply a buff to another ability. It seems meh imo

[@ironsideeve2955]

No group utility, no cc, no raid buff or equivalent. Failure of a rework. Would be nice if rotations were smoother, no idea if that's true

[@MarkElf2204]

We did get 2 additional knockbacks basically which is far from ideal utility since for whatever reason we're getting assigned 'situational utility' per Blizzard's blue post, that's what we're stuck with. Intimidate needs to be replaced with a pet Howling or something - a 3s silence would be cool.

[@Les-Wolf]

Still waiting on dual wield 1 handed weapons for survival.

[@barhan1197]

Hi Azortharion, great video! Isnt it possible to write a macro in which you use "feign death" in combination with "camouflage"/"ghillie suit"? So you can feign death to get out of combat and in the same time you use camouflage and benefit of 20% damage reduce after coming out of camouflage. if it is possible to write a macro like this i think "ghillie suit" can be seen as another little def-cd what do you think?

[@Azortharion]

Feign does not drop combat except with trash mobs and PvP, so this does not work. And even then, it is not instant, so you can't macro it short of a castsequence macro with a 1-2s interval.

[@barhan1197]

@@Azortharion thx for the fast response! yeah i had the concern that it wouldnt work ^^. Overall it seems there are many improvements to Hunter with this rework but like you mentioned in your videos there are still some things which could be better. My biggest wish is to give all Hunterspecs accessibility to "bloodlust" without the need for an active pet...

[@ungulatemanalpha]

I'm gonna bite the bullet and say it - I think these initial changes give hunters too much defensive power. I was there unavoidably dying to Razsageth like all the other hunters, but this is part of an overarching defensive creep we've seen throughout Dragonflight, and getting two charges of a powerful spot defensive on top of Turtle is pushing it. Exhilaration being on the GCD and still being reliant on a bunch of talents to be vaguely acceptable sucks, and I'd rather do something about that than make Survival of the Fittest this strong.

[@palfotta]

Idk man, I like the damage talents and the defensive buff. BUT STILL zero utility, and STILL no pet independent bloodlust. So our problems stay the same (in m+ atleast), has to be number 1 dps or wont get any invite at all. Sad story.

[@ootsie194]

That poste haste change is terrible. I was hoping for disengage to have 2 charges - not a mobility nerf. I cant wait to try and kite warriors, dh's and ww's in arena next expansion 😥

[@Azortharion]

@@ootsie194 Apparently it was a bug and it has since been fixed on the beta. Posthaste is back to normal.

[@ootsie194]

@@Azortharion thank god for that! And thanks for the swift update mate. I appreciate it 🙏

[@JDupache]

Will you want to run Steel Trap if you're running Basilisk Collar?

[@Azortharion]

Doesn't count towards it for the moment. Thankfully for gameplay reasons.

[@AppalachianDruid]

Pretty sure emergency salve was a PVP talent before this

[@semi6544]

Will the intimidation stun pet be a real pet for MM or something like a dire beast type pet that stuns and leaves?

[@jameshackett5255]

It's like a dire beast, appears, does the stuns and then it's gone.

[@semi6544]

@@jameshackett5255 -- Thanks, that is probably the best way to do it.

[@nesuferitumorassi3378]

What's the name of your headset?:)

[@Azortharion]

Sennheiser HD800 :)

[@boggybog]

really i like bm with its buttons being simple. Honestly it doesnt need the extra buttons. If youre playing BM for complexity and having to use your brain. Kinda missing point of the spec itself. Granted this just hunter review not the spec. But meh.

[@user-dw9of6iq9u]

Survival of the fittest is a 1min cd with 2 charges. Also camouflage is a 1 min 20percent wall if you combine it with feign death. Plus hunter has a self healing and immune. While feign death and turtle remove poison and disease. Tell me this isn’t broken?

[@Azortharion]

You cannot Camo in encounter combat, even with Feign. Exhil is very poor self-healing, and is active. Many classes heal more passively than Hunter does pressing Exhil on CD. By a lot.

[@user-dw9of6iq9u]

@@Azortharion yet most class don’t have wall with 1min cd and 2min charges. At this rate hunter can basically just remove self healing ability and still be broken. It used to be 3min single charge.

[@user-dw9of6iq9u]

@@Azortharion self healing is a cherry on the cake feels good to have but most of the times can be done better with a wall when needed. Look at dps shaman as example has tons of healing but garage wall. One of the reasons why it almost never be seen in high level keys. I’m a hunter player but ffs this is so bad they 100 percent gonna nerf this.

[@user-dw9of6iq9u]

@@Azortharion also I just tested camp with feign death seems working. Do u have pets atttacking? Regarding this probably a bug I don’t think it should work too.

[@Koosher99]

This guy really hates hunter lmao

[@ironsideeve2955]

Half of those hunter 'reworks' were just gimmicks that some intern made up on a smoke break

[@Azortharion]

Do you want to specify which ones you mean and why?

[@shaunybonny688]

Attack speed, blah, auto attack damage is so low, change it to haste

[@Simeonlol]

First ( you late doolb )

[@edmondprice6215]

Too many talents. Talent bloat. I dont want to memorize 100 talent nodes. Then change specs and memorize more then go into PVP and learn pvp talents and now hero talents. Several hundred talents is a mess. BLOAT