Unlocking Efficiency: What is the Right Hole Size for Bee Feeder Jar? 📏🐝

[@benjamindejonge3624]

I was wondering true all this years thanks for clearing up this

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

Benjamin, glad it cleared it up the confusion! Make sure to also check out the follow up video to this one here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eniZonaCh5poiaMsi=IbU4b_R5frWbNCLC

[@shabbydeb]

Very interesting video!! I don't know much about bees and beekeeping but enjoyed learning. Thank you for sharing!!

[@donaltland7957]

The bigger holes that at first did not leak, would they spring a leak when the bees started to feed from the jar? Any difference which direction that you drive the holes through the lid?

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@donaltland7957: Yes, above 5.2 mm has not only a time-bomb affect that I observed, but if it was disturbed (like with a bee feeding) it could dump its full load. I'd hate to be the unassuming bee looking for some feed. Regarding the difference in direction, that's a great question, I'd not thought of that. I'd do some experimenting on the channel. One of the things with drilling and punching holes is that it leaves jagged edges. I wonder if anyone's ever studied if it's bad for bee's tongues? Keep the comments coming and I'll keep experimenting. 🐝 🧪

[@MarkThomas123]

Awesome Video. I was wondering what size holes I was going to use.. Thanks for doing the testing and making the results available.. These kinds of videos are awesome. It's funny to see how many things the bees will teach you, that the books are just not right on.. Ha..Ha... Not in this case.. More of a physics lesson, but, if you hear something the bees did that was really, really strange?? As long as it is for the Betterment of the Colony as a whole, believe it.. I have had queens lay in their own hive and fly to another hive and lay there too (Mother Daughter Queen Set in Hives about 15' apart.. One booming hive that was using another hive for honey storage, long before they had any specific need of space in their own.. I kept honey supers (fresh wired wax foundation), and they still filled up the hive next to them.. Late in the year, before the drones were run out of the hives, I had a laying worker hive,,, had another queen fly into the box and lay eggs for them to make queen cells with, etc..

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

Mark, I have another video that will be much more in depth on hole size and feeding coming in a couple of weeks, please stay tuned. I promise that you'll be surprised at what I've discovered in my most recent experiments, I was shocked. Fascinating about the queen laying in another hive. I have heard of queens drifting out of confusion to the wrong hive but I've never heard of them intentionally doing it. I guess from an evolutionary perspective it could have an advantage. Like the Cookoo bird that lays her eggs in another birds nest. Maybe brood parasitism could happen with bees, there's still a lot we don't know about them.

[@MarkThomas123]

@@TechnicallyBeekeeping I just subscribed.. I'll be looking at what you are going to post and what you have posted already.. Thanks for the effort putting the videos up. I know how much time it takes... Thanks again... I raised bees for 2 Seasons.. Massive Die out each winter. Left plenty of Honey on both times. First year, started with 3 hives, raised queens, etc, ended up with 12. Spring, I had two. I studied them heavily the first year. Double Deeps and Supers. Next year, Single Deeps and Supers.. Man, what a difference in ease of taking care of them. No swarming, etc... Second year, started with 2, bought 3 packages (5 total), ended up with 10 hives. 26 Gallons of honey the first year, 24 the next. Year 3 Spring, zero survived. 2 years later, I had a swarm move into one of my boxes, I just added honey supers.. In late May, I had an 8lb swarm of bees out of that hive. Caught them, put them in another box and kept 4-5 supers on both of them. Just left them alone. 3 years later (this year), I decided to go down and get them going again.. Bees will get lazy, or, will get used to the right size hive and not have aspirations of "Populating the Earth" too.. I started fooling with them late. In June. Trying to get them back in the bottom Deep Box vs the two first honey supers they were laying in currently. They didn't appreciate me coaxing them into the old deep. I didn't even rotate the boxes on them. (Supers below the deep).. They were the nicest and calmest bees I had ever worked a couple years ago.. Rascals are mean little shits this year. Can't get them to brood up and get a large population going. I think the queens are in Cadillac mode.. I'm building some nucs now, and going to do several methods of raising queens, and stimulative feeding to see if I can get them to build up more bees.. Usually, all you have to do is give them more space (supers).. Now, they could care less.. They have enough honey and they know it.. Ha..Ha.. I am fixing to rob them and force them down into a second deep, (Save 2 of the supers for later, just in case), and I am going to give them all of the 1:1 Sugar water, and some heavily waxed plastic frames and see if I can get them cranked up again. I'll do some cell punching (OTS queen Rearing), and some walk away splits if they have gotten their population up enough yet. If not, Cloake Boards and Grafting is what I will resort to. I know they have a huge potential of having a massive hive. Hope those genes are still in those two boxes down there. Or, hoping that their Daughter queen still have them.. I didn't do anything with them and they have lasted a bunch of winters on their own. I guess I am going to learn a bit about genetics doing all of this. From Seam Busting, working the hives without suit/veil or gloves, to getting stung 9, 15, 21 times per visit suited up. Ha..Ha.. I got 9 stings with a Jacket/Hood, a light pair of gloves and a pair of sweat pants, just trying to give them a little sugar water.. Ha..Ha.. It is going to be interesting to see how they act when I go back down there again with more sugar water and a spray bottle of HBH sugar water.. Wanna bet they are a Different Bunch of Bees with an Attitude change? :) Hey, at least my immunity to the stings is beginning to kick in again.. Ha..Ha.. The 21 stings seemed to kick it up a notch... These rascals have some really hot Venom.. Burns like the devil, and if you don't get the stinger out within the first 10-15 seconds, once those muscles start pumping on the poison sack, talk about a sting and burn.. I'm also going to work them in the morning vs late afternoon. All kinds of things you can do to change the bees behavior.. And, not all bees like or act favorable to smoke either. A little sugar water with some home made HBHealthy might go a long way.. I read a bunch about bees before I got started. Watched a crapload of videos too.. Then, I let the bees tell me what was right and what was wrong with what I read. I would say it was about a 50/50.. One thing I do know.. Carl Marx had to be a beekeeper. .Ha..Ha.. Cheers from Western NC..

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@@MarkThomas123 Yes, it's nice when have a gentle colony like that. I have one hot colony that I'm pretty sure has a wanted dead or alive poster of me up in their hive. :) My parents were beekeepers when I was growing up and always told me that the old timer beekeepers never have arthritis, due to the stings, so just think of each sting as Dr Bee giving you venom therapy. ;) Keep me posted on your queen rearing. I love learning as much as I can on bee genetics.

[@ME_MeAndMyBees]

I think 'Big Hives' are not always the Best. Have Healthy Colonies, with good Food Reserves, over taking everything and just Feeding tons of 'Sugar' back. Good way to have Deadouts each New Year ! 😖 Build up Strong & Consilidate them down to a Brood + Half. With good Top Insulation only they come through Year in, Year out. Have x1 Queen who is in her 4th Year. Awesome for Nuc Material. Have many Daughters aplenty. Nucs ++ Here in Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Folk prefer to Keep 'Local Bees' aka Mutts over say Imported Bred Italians, Carniolans, even the Buckfast, that do Great in Southern England, don't survive our Harsh Scottish Winters. 😕 I'm lucky enough to have Lovely Calm Bees (Breed my own Queens) that are AMM, or the 'Native Black Bee'. And a awesome Tourist Honey Farm all of say less than x10 Miles away, keep their 'Hives' in the Countryside all around us. These Guys Specialised in getting the 'Heather Honey". And I know my Virgin Queen's are going on Date Days with 'their Boy Bees' 😄 And they keep a Line of Black Bees that have been in the Area for almost x60 Years. Don't change from what works just because someone else says 'Mutt Bees' are not 'It' right now. . . I don't think anybody does 'Packages' of Bees here in the UK. Think the USA work them 'Hard' (Pollenation of Almonds seems to Kill so many Bees !) That Folk repeatedly Buy in Package after Package. 🙄 Nature knows best. Bees know best. 👌 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 Happy Beekeeping 2024 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 Started the Year with that Fab Queen (In a Horizontal Hive) And x3 others. On Langstroth & UK National + a French Warre. Until last Weekends first Snow I had x 14 Colonies ! Alas a Nuc, that was OK two Weeks ago, demised this Week. But, they have left some fabulous Natural Drawn Comb, so come Spring, a Split will have a ready made Home ! 👍 Nice.

[@DialedN_07]

It's actually a really good idea to put coloring in your feed for the bees. It allows you to see WHERE they are storing the feed. If any of the red liquid ends up in your supers (even if you stopped feeding previously) then you know you don't have pure honey.

[@BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping]

I have thought about doing this... because I know they can move honey around from one box to another depending on what the brood needs are...

[@BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping]

This would actually be a good experiment... feed them nothing but colored syrup during a dearth... let the hive body get filled with red funny honey..... stop feeding and then put on honey supers once a flow starts and see if any of the red ends up above the brood box.

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@DialedN_07 Interesting idea. I will look into it.

[@dougvogt8058]

Another factor which would be harder to test is, when the bees stick their probiscis in and break the surface tension of the liquid, does that also allow a lot more liquid to leak out? My guess is that the bigger the hole, the more you'd see that effect. My theory would be that the smallest hole that they can get their probiscis into would be the least likely to leak, while allowing easy access for the bees. I'll put out theories all day long, as long as you do the hard work of testing them. FWIW, I use push pin holes.

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

Doug, Lol, keep the ideas coming and I'll build experiments. I did think about that too. I tried pushing toothpicks into the holes to simulate proboscises. I was also wondering if it would break the vacuum and cave in on the bee, I suspect that you're right on that. I should create a more rigorous experiment and try it out. Thanks!

[@BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping]

The amount of airspace helps to determine how good of a vacuum you get. the more full the jar, the less leakage you will get. Good video and experiment!

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping I noticed the relationship between airspace and vacuum after the first experiment. Maybe it should have been, but this relationship was not obvious to me before experimenting. I ended up running the whole experiment a second time to ensure that airspace was kept at a constant rate out of concerns that it would affect the experiment. Thanks for the comment. How did you discover the relationship between the airspace and vacuum have you done similar experiments or just from experience? Great insight.

[@BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping]

@@TechnicallyBeekeeping I believe it was either Bob Binnie or Kamon Reynolds. Another few variables you have to take into consideration is external temperature, and the material the container is made of. Heating or cooling the liquid will make the drip rate change, and if you have a bucket feeder, the plastic can expand/contract with temp changes creating more/less of a vacuum.

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@@BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping I had thought about doing another video of microwaving the feed to get it to the temp to what it would be in an inner cover on a hot summer day. I had not thought about material, that's interesting about the expansion and contraction but makes sense.

[@BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping]

@@TechnicallyBeekeeping I would also be interested in finding out how long syrup can sit outside in a glass jar exposed to sun prior to mold growth vs, a glass jar covered by a super and lid... Just in case you are looking for video ideas lol :)

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@@BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping That's a good one. Stay tuned, I'll look into it.

[@kareneaton3395]

nice video content. Very helpfull and usefull for all us beeks

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@kareneaton3395, thanks! I plan to do a similar one digging in deeper in a couple of weeks.

[@phillopadopaplopalus]

This is a great video. Would have been good to include jar size and feed volume to see if that had any affect

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

Great idea! I will try it in the future to see how the volume changes things. I suspect the heat (for example in a hot summer hive) and mix of syrup also affects things.

[@drdaveyjones6216]

​@TechnicallyBeekeeping heat shouldn't affect things, because evaporation would be carried off upwards, which can't happen because of the jar being inverted

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@@drdaveyjones6216 interesting point. Inside of the jar itself is a closed system. I am not sure how vapor vs liquid would affect the flow rate. 🤔 You think that it would not have an effect?

[@-Dwight-Schrute]

​@@drdaveyjones6216I'd think that heat would change the viscosity of the fluid, just like with engine oil and could definitely change the rate of flow.

[@Junebug-js4ol]

Great video. I was just wondering about hole size. I do like to put bee pollen substitute in the syrup containing HBH and ABB supplements, so when I made the thumbtack or small nail sized holes, it seemed the pollen sub stayed in the jar. Now I know I can go to a larger size before running into dripping issues. Thanks.

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@Junebug-js40l, that's a good point about the pollen substitue. It can gum up the works for certain. I've found that with many feeders that were coated with it after feeding was complete. Great comment, keep them coming. 🙏 I plan to talk more about feeders in the next few weeks, let me know if you'd like more content about any aspect of feeding. 🐝

[@Junebug-js4ol]

@@TechnicallyBeekeeping My latest pondering is how to rig my two-partition top feeder so that the syrup flows more towards the center screen. The plastic bin is so flat, if the syrup dries out the entire bottom is coated with the dried sugar (and pollen substitute).

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@@Junebug-js4ol tell me more! Do you have an link to the top feed that you use?

[@Junebug-js4ol]

@@TechnicallyBeekeeping Mann Lake sells them. Search top feeders. If you don't hit Enter, it should show up at top. Believe you can get elsewhere. You may recognize it also.

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

Ah, this is the one you mean? I have not used this one before. www.mannlakeltd.com/top-feeder-with-unpainted-super/ I use the Dadant feeders in my bee yard. I'm not recommending them, as I've had to do some modifications due to bees drowning. www.dadant.com/catalog/hive-top-feeder-10-frame-m01436

[@ohio1970]

I always use a .062 dia drill for holes.

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@ohio1870, so that's a 1/16th drill bit? That's a smart choice from what I'm seeing. I've done more research and will post another video on this. Thanks for the information, it's very helpful.

[@adamsmithson486]

Pozdrawiam serdecznie i życzę miłego dnia

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

Thanks Adam. Have a great day as well. Dziękuję za komentarz!

[@kathyhathaway8823]

Also on your test you have to remember you are using water . Remember syrup is a lot thicker . Also the bees will pull out what they want . So like I suggested keep holes small .

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@kathyhathaway8823: You're absolutely right about the importance of keeping the holes small. Thanks a bunch for sharing your thoughts! Regarding water vs syrup, I used both in the experiment. I used 1:1 syrup (you won't believe how sticky my office is :) ).

[@SF2BeeRanch]

Bob Benny has a hole size he uses on his videos,

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

Yes, Bob Binnie is such an amazing resource of information on both jar feeding and honey bottling (and beekeeping in general). I saw him at the Bee Expo last year and his talk really blew my mind.

[@tamaraleupold6528]

A pushpin works great.

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

Tamara, yes, I agree. Pushpins work well with pure liquid feed. Thank you for your comment. 🙏

[@kathyhathaway8823]

There is no correct size of hole . The amount of syrup is determined by the amount of syrup you want to come out because of how you want to feed . You always use a very small hole but you may just use three holes or you may go with ten or twelve holes . If you just want to stimulate the bees use less amount of holes then if you want to put weight in the hive for say winter you put a lot of holes . Believe it or not but even in steel lids the holes will get bigger the more they are used . Also that gets into something else to what thickness of syrup you are wanting to feed . There are three different mixtures I use these are water & sugar the first is a say 1-1/4 to 1 this one is thinner than a 1 to 1 because this one is a lot closer to nectar. Then the middle one is a 1 to 1 then the last one is a 1 to 2 this one is the thickest mixture. This is used to put a lot of weight on fast to fill the box so the bees will have a lot of food for the winter . Do see there is really no correct size or amount of holes it is just something you learn with years under your belt an learn what each thing does . I do not remember off the top of my head what size holes it is but a tooth pick will just barely fit in the hole to clean the holes out but guessing I would say a 1/16” or or a 1/8” just stay small . On the leakage even with small they will not leak a lot but when the temperature changes it will burp an you will get some leakage . Always fill your jar up full . If you start getting a lot of leakage then your jar is probably getting low an will not hold a vacuum an or you are having a lot of temperature changes from night time to middle of the day. This is hard to put on paper what to do but I hope this helps out .

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@kathyhathaway8823: That's an interesting observation about the hole sizes getting bigger over time for even a steel lid. Why do you think that is? Thanks for sharing all the great information!

[@kathyhathaway8823]

@@TechnicallyBeekeeping I have no idea why I just guess it is the billions an billions of licks 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️.

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@@kathyhathaway8823 Ha, it's the lick-factor. 🤣 I love it.

[@intheshell35ify]

Then you come out in a week and they haven't been able to pull it out of the holes so they haven't drawn any comb or grown in any way. I've had too many failures playing around with this. Frame feeder or top feeder. Can't miss. However... thank you for the effort.

[@TechnicallyBeekeeping]

@intheshell35ify I hope that you have the best beekeeping season this year. All the best.

[@O_96]

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