Unlocking Gene Therapy with Neil deGrasse Tyson & Gaurav Shah

How can innovative science lead to potential cures for people living with rare diseases across the globe? Neil deGrasse Tyson and comedian Chuck Nice learn about the science of gene therapy and its applications with Gaurav Shah, CEO, Rocket Pharma.
Learn how gene therapy works, tropism, and how rare diseases without a cure could potentially be history through advancements in science. We talk about how Gaurav’s interest in music helped his approach to science. Plus, we break down how they identify which genes and conditions to target and which viruses they use to deliver the new genetic material.
Why invest in seeking to cure rare diseases? Is having a rare disease itself rare? Learn about diseases they are targeting for gene therapy like Fanconi Anemia, LAD-I, Pyruvate Kinase Deficiency, and Danon Disease. Can gene therapy tackle chronic disease? How do scientists pick which genes to target?
What is the morality of gene editing in the future which could change the DNA of an entire individual? We discuss the implications and the ethics of different forms of gene therapy. Find out about the FDA’s role in approving this new medicine for the public and its risks.
Thanks to our Patrons Ernesto Rodriguez, James Lewandowski, Juan Cornejo, Shane, Hayden Christensen, jacob vine, and Calina Lungu for supporting us this week.
NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can listen to this entire episode commercial-free.
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Science meets pop culture on StarTalk! Astrophysicist & Hayden Planetarium director Neil deGrasse Tyson, his comic co-hosts, guest celebrities & scientists discuss astronomy, physics, and everything else about life in the universe. Keep Looking Up!
#StarTalk #NeildeGrasseTyson
00:00 - Introduction: Rocket Pharma
2:50 - The Intersection of Science & Art
6:28 - Gene Therapy 101
12:35 - Using Viruses for Medicine
16:34 - Treating Rare Diseases
21:44 - What Diseases is Gene Therapy Targeting?
27:06 - Ethics & Disability: What is Normal?
34:26 - Getting Gene Therapy Through The FDA
36:31 - Measuring Risk Factors

[@StarTalk]

What was your favorite part of this episode?

[@will.green.]

stick to the cosmos. its sad to see you fall into this left wing propaganda

[@gavinbamber6082]

The best part was how the company is working harmoniously with the FDA to ensure proper safety. (a continuation of how the FDA refused to approve thalidomide)

[@splaxy8116]

When I noticed and thought to myself "bro just shave it already". Remember, bald is a hairstyle but balding is not

[@AndrewNiccol]

Can music really help one to become a better scientist like Gaurav Shah said? Is that the reason Einstein played violin and Feynman played drums?

[@victorrutledge257]

Pick a section... I had to listen to the interview twice, just to hear everything and digest it. I'm not even going to make any use of this tremendous knowledge, but I just couldn't avoid learning it.

[@deucedaprodeuca]

I have an autoimmune disorder called cyclic neutropenia. My neutrophils disappear to zero once every 21 days and I get very sick and am sick for half of each month. Coincidentally, I started seeing an oncologist yesterday for the first time in many many years, and she got on the internet to try to find gene therapy, and today by coincidence, you're talking about it. There is no treatment for what I have, and all the gene therapy seems to be geared toward the more common disorders such as leukemia and sickle cell anemia. I think there are only 236 known cases for what I have.

[@ktkt9982]

I'm sorry you suffer such a debilitating disorder. 🫂

[@aznstride4325]

I would suggest considering an elimination diet, to see if it fixes your immune disorder

[@AA_Warlok]

Start studying, you can only truly rely on yourself to have the drive to solve your problems .

[@jofrazier-hansen4097]

As a nurse reading this, my thoughts are to ask the oncologist if there might be a hormonal component to this issue and if an immunolgist/heamatologist or internal med co-consult would be appropriate.

[@trentgay3437]

Auto immune chit sucks psoriatic arthritis here. I hope you can have as many good days as possible.

[@Brandalf_The_Grey]

Music major here and a music teacher of 11 years and just wanted to say that I agree with everything that Gaurav Shah is saying

[@rubythomas2068]

Excellent episode with Neil, Gaurav, and Chuck. Not only very Informative but absolutely love the comedic commentary by Neil and Chuck. I couldn't stop laughing. Dr Shah and Rocket Pharma, Thank you for being such an exceptional advocate for those with these rare diseases, staying true to your mission & vision and bringing this innovative science to fruition with genuine compassion. Also love that you brought music and gene therapy together! God bless you all!

[@michaelccopelandsr7120]

Neil and Chuck for 2024!

[@morbidmanmusic]

No more celebrities please..

[@Wis_Dom]

Smart people will never be presidents because dumb people do the voting.

[@DanielSmith-cq7wd]

I'd vote for em

[@OldManInternet]

​@@morbidmanmusicBecause the career politicians are more reliable? Lol

[@ashtreylil1]

I have sickle cell anemia and now they are offering Gene therapy as a treatment. It doesn't pass on to your kids but it makes you not have sickle cell anymore.

[@rjbramirez]

Tis true. There are trials that have been recent public knowledge.

[@sandrataylor3723]

Learned a few things. I didn't necessarily understand half of what was said but it all sounds very promising for the future of medicine.

[@ECKSDEEEExD]

Chuck killin it - my sides LMAO

[@joppadoni]

He makes me want a cuddle.. Lol

[@smartbutuneducated8637]

Nice episode. I really enjoy when I finish watching with a list of questions that make me want to understand more about these sectors. Almost all of my questions are derived from taking my conceptualization of a topic and alter all perceptions to see if translations hold true. I enjoyed the side comments on art as it envokes models for different translation. Conceptual questions I come out of this episode with that I hope to learn about at some time are: You sub in a 'page' but Neil's comment about possible image difference from point of an observer and how it effects reconstruction. I question virus delivery and virus interaction within someone possible virus family interaction differences. So many possibilities makes me think are we as a species doing enough to protect ourselves and others from being smart enough to destroy everything but being dumb enough to do it. Scientists leading the way but at what point can a former shoe salesman hurt a lot of people?

[@user-ec2xs3qj4o]

Listening to Neil is always awesome

[@anipush6683]

oh man! I'm on minute 3:40 and already getting chills

[@thewb8329]

Probably the best definition of spirituality.

[@fluid1614]

Wow, Neil and Chuck added so much value here. Love the way they were used.

[@stargazermoonshowers]

Pretty please will you do a video on terrence howard and all the odd science an mathematics he's been talking about

[@dmd7472]

Brilliant episode

[@carlmorberg5341]

Thanks!

[@Youknowmeozone]

Great episode .. interesting conversation

[@lisam5744]

The rare diseases used to be called orphan diseases because no one wanted to fund research into them. I'm glad to see that people are actually spending money on research to help. My sister died of an orphan disease (polychondritis) and there was very little known about it or treatments for it at the time. Here's hoping their research helps many, many people.

[@SavvyMoneyShow]

Amazing

[@SheSweetLikSugarNSavage]

Great matcha tea startalk time. 👍 It took 2 cups❤🍵 Enjoyed the public eavesdropping opportunity.

[@joseimpact]

great talk!

[@loic-stevefonkwa6256]

thanks NEIL...inspiring

[@The-binge_710]

Great Content

[@TheHydrogen4]

How about editing genes to enable simple life forms, like prokaryotic cells, to survive under conditions that are currently impossible for life? This could create the capability to seed any planet that has the essentials, with the beginnings of life.

[@Whatisthisstupidfinghandle]

Wasn’t that a plot of one of the Aliens movies ?

[@Eric_Nielsen]

Thank you Neil. I've been all in on Dr. Shaw and Rocket for several years.

[@strangefolower7291]

This right here all this conversation and information is life defining to many and I am one of them and this is phenomenal

[@Solar_Messenger]

Shoutout to XCOM 2 for introducing me to the concept of Gene therapy and to everyone else who made this vixeo and explanation possible to help us understand it!

[@royraken7746]

I would like to ask Mr de grasse these two questions. 1. Why is the shy always blue? 2. Is the Earth tilted to left or right off of vertical,? If the tilt is true, why is the tilt necessary?

[@revmsj]

So what is the ticker symbol??

[@VladislavTodorovv]

Gaurav is the perfect straight man for the comedy of Neil and Chuck 😂

[@VinchWilson]

Gotta love Chuck 😂

[@SheSweetLikSugarNSavage]

The simple fact that the DNA strand turns clockwise is something I've always found profoundly interesting 22:30. Just one of those Ahaa things that explains the blueprint of everything earthly. 🌏💙

[@nbroyercfs]

😅😅ppp😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

[@nbroyercfs]

Ppp

[@evankelly3834]

Cell memory talk please.......

[@production58]

In Gaurav we trust..I bought Rocket stock..they are really onto something

[@briandoe5746]

I came here to activate the Tyson beacon. Jon Stewart just said that the moon was a planet. When you was talking about the eclipse he said both planets..... You know what to do. I trust this will get back to you. Tyson activation time

[@VictorPanainte]

Thanks for such a content, The part where i invest a lot to find a cure for rare diseases and what i learned may be applied elsewhere

[@hervigdewilde3599]

Imagine the kind of experiments that companies could conduct on private orbital stations, beyond national boundaries and the reach of any laws. 😏 Interesting times ahead...

[@davidpearson5574]

These talks alway begs the question for me about will be fighting human evolution that got us here or working together? Seems like gene mutations is what got us here. Getting rid of them means what for future human evolution?

[@yecto1332]

I would love to see America with president neil and VP chuck

[@judithwake2757]

Music is a form of emotional comunication.

[@jamesgreenler8225]

Excellent discussion. Ive always been amazed by microbiology. The new ability to use chemical scissors to cut and splice viruses is very interesting.

[@JT_771]

The comment about someone having a creative or driven aspect that came from a particular genetic issue is understandable. Yet at the same time, I think rare would be the blind or deaf individual that would not want to get that sense added from some gene therapy. Certainly an interesting & multi-faceted topic.

[@vidhishah590]

Hi Neil, great podcast. Here's a quick question, what are your thoughts about K2-18b where DMS is found by JWST wrt to existence of life? Is there another possibility for DMS to exist if not for life? If life might be present anywhere in the world, what are the chances they look like us?

[@tylermcnally8232]

0% chance its life. You can take that to the bank. People are not over estimating the abundance of life, they are under estimating the size of the universe and how empty and far away things are from each other. It's just not gonna happen.

[@vickieysacoff4249]

Fascinating subject! Thanks again!

[@geoffreyah]

Biochemical is physical on the molecular level, the bio chemistry which is physics.

[@The-binge_710]

11:30 - 12:24

[@homewall744]

Necessity is the mother of invention. "Fix" all problems of people having everything necessary for a "good" life is likely the end of humanity until that problem arises and gives people an opportunity to innovate and deal with that problem.

[@HisameArtwork]

consent is the main issue I think. I read that color blind soldiers in WW2 were better at spotting camouflage than normies because they rely more on nuance variation to manage their world. but babies can't give consent, only their parents can and they'll probably chose a median to above average child so they get comforting results on life. we may get some slight speciation with gene therapy though, with families of absurdly muscular wrestler dynasties or all out deaf communities/microstates. and once babies can be raised in labs omega verse- China will rise and weed out all their women and it will be a country of only men and transwomen.

[@hadarhabani5600]

20:38 tyson eyes while chuck tries to sound smart killed me

[@Wilfoe]

I'm pausing just after the point where you discussed who decides what counts as normal to type this. I would argue that whether or not something is normal should be completely irrelevant to anything else. Regardless of who decides what is and isn't normal and what normal even means in any given day and age, it shouldn't matter. Rather than focusing on whether or not something is normal or accepted, we should be focusing on whether or not it is actually helpful, harmful, or neither. Not by merit of being the expected thing, but by merit of the actual method and results. Literally every historical figure ever wasn't normal. Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, Gandhi. Them not being normal is a part of what got them into history! Literally every invention ever wasn't normal when it was first invented. The airplane, the train, the computer. People scoffed at those! Literally every form of progress that has ever occurred wasn't normal when it first occurred. Humanity learning how to harness fire, the discovery of electricity, the creation of entire countries. If people were so focused on being normal, there would be no progress! So why be normal? Normal doesn't mean right or wrong or good or bad. Normal just means common, and there is nothing wrong with something being uncommon. There have been many points throughout history where normal has actually been bad. Slavery used to be normal in this country. It still is normal in a few other countries. Smoking used to be so normal that doctors claimed it had health benefits. Gun violence is currently so normal in this country that half of the nation views it as a fact of life. Normal is different from person to person, different from culture to culture, there is no set normal! Normal is effectively one of the least normal things someone could ever be. It is not normal to be normal. I'm not normal. That's not a bad thing. Edit: Face blindness is called prosopagnosia. I have that one too. It's common with autism. An interesting benefit is that it's sometimes so severe that I can't even recognize what race someone is, so I'm less prone to racism.

[@Najur.]

Wow

[@7KingCobra7]

12:12 happens alot..

[@kingkoopa115]

Is this going to help people with mutations on their genes? My daughter is autistic, and has mutation on one of her genes.

[@Russia-bullies]

The only thing common about art & sci=both need imagination.”imagination” & “creativity” have different meanings.

[@someoldoaktree]

1:41 this is such a great joke 🤣

[@hayisaricb6387]

I so much love this team!!! 😍💕🫶🏼🔥🌿⚛️

[@davidderidder2667]

This is awesome!! Tropism or Trumpism

[@annette731]

Chuck sounded like Tump

[@marvhollingworth663]

I'm not an expert on the field, but I once wrote an article about gene editing. More funding should be put into research as it could be massively beneficial to a huge number of people. But there should be limits to what can be done. I'm 1 of the many people Neil referred to with a genetic condition that doesn't stop me from living life - I'm slightly colour blind. I have faulty retinal receptor cells caused by a recessive gene on the nonhomologous part of my X chromosome. It's merely an inconvenience, I just have to ask for a little help sometimes, so conditions like mine should be low priority, though they should be tackled eventually once actual diseases have been cured. What should not be allowed is "designer babies" where parents can choose attributes like skin, eye & hair colour & there should be legislation written to prohibit this.

[@janklaas6885]

📍21:44

[@joeleon5786]

Welllllcome mrrrrr chuck nice!!!!! 😂

[@korstmahler]

Your buddy doesn't want to take the cure-pill because it worked out well for him. He's a scientist with a life. Ask someone who's life has been ruined by their malfunctions instead. They'd take the pill in a heartbeat.

[@dmd7472]

Slightly more nuanced

[@roobscoob47]

NdGT and C. Nice~

[@SheSweetLikSugarNSavage]

30:20 Southern folks looking like: "Hey, Ughuuh don't bring us into this." 👀😆

[@Manny1222]

Chuck really loves the shock factor. lol

[@user-ew3bz1ri6i]

imagine... making the actual T-virus in resident evil 😮

[@Hookstergram]

Geen edit to make people superior? As if thats a good thing? My question is.. who has access to this and who will not have access?

[@Navybyrde]

The answer is always the same. Those with money will have access. Those with no money will have no access.

[@BigFatHeretic]

I wonder in the DNA sequence can be put to music!!!

[@HisameArtwork]

playing with just 4 notes will get old quick unless you bunch keys to those 4 and randomly make other rules. hiragana and kanji can be transferred to latin alphabet and vice versa in various ways if you feel like it. musical notes already have latin letters in them, you can play music on any writing keyboard. you can pull any system out the behind if you want.

[@radiankh]

i'll calculate for a dollar! hahah nice one

[@richardknapp8322]

I would approve of AI's future if it could clone Neil deGrasse Tyson.

[@TagiukGold]

With research there is always the risk that the patient will either be the first success or the last failure.

[@GinaCarmichael-nd2pt]

Yes however Dannon did not target COVID-19. The discovery updated clinical correlation due to cures for osteoarthritis, cancer, viruses, leukemia. Needs more human research. Trophism would require institutionalization allowing for the changes to be observed.

[@huldu]

I'd be surprised if they get a handle on covid anytime soon, they're far more like to find a cure for regular flu than covid. I think covid is going to stay with us for many, many years to come. By now most people are fine with covid, it's just another day in life, what's the average covid rate per person right now, I'd guess 2-3 times a year? I've got it at least twice a year since 2021. To be honest the flu is way, way worse than covid anyway.

[@kevinJmadsen]

I believe it's "Street Player", not street musician. 😏

[@morbidmanmusic]

It's whatever one wants, as one, we don't care as long as you pay us. Street musician is accurate, street player could be a sports person playing street hockey...

[@kevinJmadsen]

@@morbidmanmusic It was only a reference to the song titled street player

[@Anon-xd3cf]

I have very few problems with gene thereapy... I do however have a real problem with nanoparticle delivery systems.

[@budzilladakilla8749]

Genius level intellect, wasting time watching instead of helping. I'm here.

[@Orisha1990]

This is how I am legend started... oh lawd. Ai or Zombies who you got? Who's gonna take us out?

[@JesusChristDenton_7]

None.

[@seanmcfarlin8633]

Loved this entire episode up until about 5 minutes left. The CEO came out and showed his true colors.

[@travisberg9031]

Fix my neuropathy. No one else can. Im a rare case...

[@joppadoni]

Genius.. WTF..

[@keigilmore1569]

I have Endometriosis and there is no cure! Spreading the word to find one for us humans

[@DailyKach]

Why do you think people are against Gene Therapy ? 🤔

[@charveljimenez769]

Idk ppl are really gullible and whenever they hear something like that they inmideatly think the government is trying to control them

[@ThinWaistedPrimaDonna]

29:50 Here’s your answer. 33:30

[@JesusChristDenton_7]

They're luddites.

[@JuliusUnique]

face recognition blindness? How should that work? He could see and remember the shape of the beard, nose, eyes, color

[@cosmicmanik]

Read Dr. Stefan Lanka... it will blow your mind.

[@michaelccopelandsr7120]

Heck, why not? We've already made botox our "friend."

[@Vapor_Ronin]

So many burner accounts.

[@michaelccopelandsr7120]

@@Vapor_Ronin huh?

[@user-pj5ub5cp9k]

Viruses are more like an annoying neighbour.

[@nasa-bohica8516]

Meow that is all ❤😂

[@iy3165]

Enough biology for the decade. Dr. Can we move on? we're allowed to elaborate some string theory.

[@thegeeeeeeeeee]

I like startalk but these first 15min are hard to watch. You guys are being so cringe and barely letting the guy talk. Wish you guys wouldn’t interrupt so much since it made it hard to follow and learn myself about the subject from this talk

[@MikeyRumi180]

Neil's co-dependent is right there with him. lol

[@user-vk9nn7cs9b]

AVP 👽 I esstemated / i should be ... outside .../ Of new York in say 6 day./ Tomorrow is laundry 🧺/ ...so/ we'll see what happens when I get ... wherever / ..you guys ,got questions / AVP 👽 Now you're talking 🦜 / cause some of my "clones / have ...me , ..in them/but some ,(like you) don't even come close to resembling me/ ...i think 🤔 so/ /

[@victorrutledge257]

2.9 million Subscribers also care... never forget your audience. I personally want the virus which carries a payload that resets aging, to the end of the anabolic period of growth, and the beginning of the catabolic era. That way I get the best of both worlds.

[@tylermcnally8232]

Resetting aging is the worst idea ever. Things get old and die as a way to conserve energy and resources on this plant. Infinite life means infinite consumption= bad.

[@Nohandleyetf]

Why not, viruses can help to some😅

[@Orisha1990]

I'm actually shocked there's anyone out there working on actual cures. I just assumed all the research was going into treatments, because that's where the money is, and as they said, all that research they do needs money. Investors expect more $ as a return on their investment, not a benefit to humanity, that's why they're investors not donors.

[@TaimazHavadar]

راستی این جزو نوشته هانیست ها 😂 ولی گفتی موزیک یه چیزی به فکرم رسید آیا میشود که با هوش مصنوعی ترتیب قرارگیری صحیح آمینواسید چهرگانه و یا ناصحیح آمینو اسید چهارگانه (جهش مضر) رو به نتهای موسیقی و گام ها و غیره تبدیل کرد ؟؟ با کرولیشن خاصی و به کمک هوش مصنوعی که به دستگاههای تشخیص و آزمایشیه دی ان ای وصل شده ،و طبق فرایند دستگاه و تبدیل اون به موسیقی یا ملودی و چند تاش رو گوش کرد؟؟؟ و هم جالبه هم شاید به درد هم بخوره خدا رو چه دیدی 😬😬 هنر علمی هم چیز جالبیه 👍

[@TopCatAlley]

Maybe we should have Street Scientists. Not for money, but for education.

[@TheKos2Kos]

Truth is I'm a street scientist with a 3.9 of 4 gpa from u of m

[@charleshetrick3152]

Wait so genes can help us figure out health care but DNA we don’t know enough about to determine a person’s gender. Are DNA and Genes different?

[@MattCayen]

If we want everything to be 'normal' gave me shivers. What a nightmare

[@Darkeiser.7]

Thud guy sounds so american. I sound more like Neil😂

[@MistressKayDC]

There are street pharmacist 😂😂😂😂

[@FuManJuw]

Love Neil, but it would be nice if he let the other speakers talk as well lol. There is no need for him to control the conversation all the time.

[@TaimazHavadar]

ببینم موقع زلزله کجا بودی ؟ طبقات بالا نرو تکونشون زیاده و سرت اینطرف اونطرف میخوره و من نمیتوانم بنویسم 😂😂😂

[@iy3165]

😂😂

[@TorQueMoD]

Really neat conversation and burgeoning field of science! I have to say though Neil, you might not want to make that promise to Elon. He may very well hate his mother :P