Unravelling the past: how to make sense of a narcissistic relationship

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The language of "narcissistic abuse" on the internet offers a seductive certainty and way to understand a hurtful and abusive relationship. But, can it cause you to neglect understanding yourself, your reactions and the impact of the relationship on you? Can it keep you stuck in needing to deny any possible good or likeable qualities in your partner/ex-partner and prevent you from really understanding your experience. Can it get in the way of being able to communicate with clarity and confide in those closest to you? In this video I get underneath the language of "narcissistic abuse" and offer ways of understanding your experiences that can lead to healing and nurturing better relationships in the future.

[@karlheinz5858]

Dear Dr. Ruth, your video is of course well intended, but I have to disagree deeply with it for two reasons. First of all I think that your sympathy with narcissistic persons might be a bit much. Even though we are talking about some kind pathology, narcissist are not psychotic. They are aware of their exploitative and abusive behaviors and they know that what they are doing is ethically wrong or (put in everyday language) just bad. They do not necessarily know why they are acting in the way they are, but they do feel, that they are entitled to do so. "Rules don't apply to me. I can treat anybody just the way I want. If you're having a problem with that, then you are the problem / the enemy!" This kind of behavior is a choice. And by the way it is abusive in every aspect. Even when narcissistic persons are acting nicely, they are doing so only for themselves, to feel better about themselves, to manipulate others, to avoid shame etc. You can call that defense mechanisms - and that might right in psychological terms. But to point a gun at someone innocent (people they claimed they loved by the way) and pull the trigger just in case that is not defense. That is aggression. And I am unable to find a reason why it should be wrong to say that people whose deeds are bad are therefore bad people. Our actions matter, they determine who we are. For a therapist or from an academic point of view it is interesting and necessary to know how and why narcissistic people became the way they are etc. And I am in favor of every individual that is willing to chance. Everybody deserves help and a second or third chance. But to say that other people make (sic!) the narcissist "the bad guy" is a distortion of reality and therefore not acceptable. Some (maybe most) narcissistic people were victimized in the past, but nowadays they are the offenders. The second point is the following: The language that you described and you disagree with is just a kind of technical language and the terms you mentioned help (like all technical terms) to express things accurately. Therefore they are not confusing, but in the contrary relatively well defined. Is somebody begins to study any kind of subject, he or she has to learn the terms to communicate properly and to understand the literature. I don't see any problem with it at all. And of course you are using this terms inside a relatively small community of people who are familiar with these terms - like in physics for example. If you want to tell anybody outside the community about your experience, you can talk in another way or just explain what you mean by gaslighting etc. I don't see the problem with that, because nobody looses the capability to talk in different terms with people on the outside. Kind regards

[@danab172]

Just for your own sake, sometimes it's good to think of these people that hurt you, in a compassionate way. In other words, imagine yourself sort of separated by a sense of compassion for a very sick person that's broken. You can't do it all the time, I know. And it's best to keep an actual distance. But the ruminations can prevail. And it gives your mind a break by imagining compassion because it puts you in a position of self confidence, versus the hurt and beaten down part of you that's still trying to make sense of unfairness.

[@karlheinz5858]

Thank you very much for your kind advice. But I think that I am a quite compassionate person. Even more than it is good for me, I'm afraid. But my comment was not about how to deal with the aftermath of narcissistic relationship. I deeply believe that in Dr. Ruth's video her sympathy just goes too far. Or as my own therapist once said to me, as I asked her about my compassion for narcissistic people in my life: 'One can't gain benefits from your mental illnes." Why was I in therapy? Because of my depressions. Depressed people can get upset easily and some get violent. Is this behavior okay because depression is a mental illness? We all have choices to make in our lives. And abusive behavior is a choice. It might be a lot harder for some mentally ill people to not act abusively, but the choice is still theirs. @@danab172

[@danab172]

​@karlheinz5858 your response comes off as harsh and defensive, and tbh, confusing to me. Even quite accusing and blameful of this woman that is rather sweet and only doing her best on here. I could go off on her too, being that i think the mental health system is generally abusive. But her demeanor is gentle and caring, not seemingly judgemental. I had good intentions...my response was in an effort of support, as someone who knows too well what it is like to suffer. Simply. Anyhoo.... whoever you are, good luck with your therapy and your healing.

[@karlheinz5858]

Well, maybe that's because English is not my first language. It was not my intention to be harsh. I just disagree with her opinion and I tried to present arguments for mine. That's all. All the best to you. @@danab172

[@kizombaholic]

Absolutely agree. The greatest advantage of this experience is the learning that comes with it. Why did we tolerate the abuse? Why were we able to endure the lack of empathy, respect, emotional and psychological abuse, belittling, gaslighting (we learn these terms only later- maybe when the abuse has been going on for a long while) but it is scary to what extent they reflect a real experience. Yes, they may have a "nice" face but the energy expenditure required to be by their side is way too much. One starts feeling awkward, like there's not a real relationship, there's no love, there's acting or feeling it's a relationship based on convenience and it could be you or any other person for that matter. There's not a real reason in the sense that love is not behind you having been the chosen one. At the same time, there's a great deal of pain if one loves the person for whom he is, acknowledges this good side of him, and is aware of the fact that this behaviour comes from a- I don't know to what extent- unconscious and unwavering, vital need to feel appreciated, loved, admired, accepted- which makes him as human as one can be. Tried to provide a space of safety to only find that he would then restrict my personal space/freedom/need to look after myself as it was possibly felt as a threat to him/the survival of the relationship.

[@MarinaM-o6p]

This fancy title you have for this video we can also call it “ I hate you but cannot live without you either” , usually this is what the narc thinks. ( mostly are men) .

[@danab172]

My now almost 80 year old mother is a covert narcissist. My half sister is hystrionic and an abusive narcissist. Theyre glued together. I was the golden child. But i became the scapegoat. She lives on the entire other side of the country. But i send her a birthday and Christmas present. I have no contact at all with my half sister. The last draw was witnessing her treatment towards a baby in her care. I havent seen either in many years. I literally have no family. My only ally is now dead. My bio father is deranged as well, and hid that he had a daughter. I wasnt wanted. My childhood was poor, unstable, very lonely, targeted, bullied, and surrounded by my mothers perverted low grade men, multiple marriages. I cannot get rid of the memories. Its safe to say that i have complex ptsd. Ive been in therapy. But... I prefer to go it alone now because you sign yourself up to be in a position where something is wrong with you in order to seek help, when u really just want an ally. At 47, I never married or had kids or obtained a career. I have no friends. I feel ive lost out on my entire life. Now im fighting for my survival and responsibility by trying to learn a certificate program towards employment that may have adequate income and a chance towards advancement. When i have this foundation, i plan to try and get a life. Im a nature lover. I love walking in the woods, camping. I am interested in fiction literature, poetry, arts, socrates cafe discussion, live plays, environmental engineering, math, science, and social justice. I love animals. Children. I just wish that i could stop the obsession and ruminations. I mean i do do alot of self talk too, and remember to be compassionate. I wish that i could stop worrying about my mother dying and leaving me with regret or emptiness and pain. I tell ya, turning 47 has been mind blowing. Im post menopause too. (And it was my dream to have children.) But anyway... I also wish that i had a family of my own because for my entire life and moving forward....i have and will try to join groups and activities. But, it never is permanent. It never fills the void entirely. I always still feel different and unrelating and an outsider at times. I wish i didnt have to spend the rest of my life where every holiday...I may volunteer or...doing something around the holiday, but feel all alone still because im hiding in shame that i have noone. I wish that holidays didnt mean pulling the shades down, net flix binging, party of one, until its over, and nobody knows that ive spent years alone.

[@drruthannharpur]

I'm so sorry 🙏

[@pdquestions7673]

great overall message.... not to get too enraptured with the "fetish of the jargon" and just deal with the unclassified reality of what we're actually living.. A great way to move out of the polarization of categorical thinking and into the less defined experience of more healthy grey reality.

[@drruthannharpur]

Thank you. Yes, exactly... and imho cuts both ways. We should understand our own more difficult or tricky behaviours and their impact in others too. Btw, if you want to see a therapist do this excellently, check out Esther Perel's "Where should we begin podcast". There is an episode titled, "Am I being gaslit?" Imho it's excellent! I might do a video review of it. It'd be interesting to hear your take on it if you get a chance to listen.

[@pdquestions7673]

@@drruthannharpur -- I'll look for it right now 🙂

[@drruthannharpur]

@@pdquestions7673 it's on Spotify or Apple Podcasts... you'll enjoy Esther I think. She's a joy to listen to and very witty.

[@pdquestions7673]

@@drruthannharpur I'll check it out 🙂 thanks 🙂