Upgrading My Dust Extraction System

[@nicharvey7211]

Yellow shorts help create good air flow! That's all you folks need to know. Brilliant Keith! And yeah that dust system also is brilliant 👏

[@juneritchie2498]

Thanks for your candidness and attention to details!

[@dougsaunders8109]

My extraction powers on after a power cut. From the fob on your system, mine was made in the factory next door as it very similar. I turn it off at the wall after use because of this. But I do have to remember to do so. Well done Numatic on its customer service, hard to find these days along with the spares!

[@TheBowdy666]

Oh yes sir the shorts are what we are all here for hahahaha great job as usual

[@tonyworkswood]

Hi Keith, that's saved some space along with more suction. Job well done. Tony

[@ofwoden]

I think the black and grey pipe actually looks really good.

[@ianvicedomini2648]

Great video Keith. Glad you got it all sorted in the end mate and the improvement on the dust extraction 👍🏻👍🏻

[@awlthatwoodcrafts8911]

Having the anemometer is way better than "I feel it's working better than before". They're not very expensive, relative to what you're going to spend on your dust extraction system, and getting real numbers to evaluate performance is just smarter, in my opinion. I bought one to evaluate my shop vac/Dustopper set up and found that I was only getting about 80 cfm at the end of the hose compared to 180 cfm at the inlet of the shop vac. That might work for a sander but it was nowhere near adequate for my table saw. As a result, I bought the Dust Right 750, from Rockler, and now I get about 500 cfm at the end of the hose, which is more than adequate for my table saw. I works great with the fence and dust box I made for the router I built, as well. Knowing the real numbers was key.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Sounds like you're comparing lvhp with hvlp though?

[@awlthatwoodcrafts8911]

@@RagnBoneBrown that's true, when comparing a shop vac and a true dust collection system. But 80 cfm doesn't cut it for a table saw regardless of lvhp or hvlp.

[@MCsCreations]

Excellent work, Keith! It definitely seems to be a much better system now! 😃 I was using a small vacuum cleaner here, with a plastic bucket and a cyclone separator. It did work well for me for a while (it's a pretty small shop), but the vacuum cleaner broke and my father brought me a big one that was in the farm... Now I'm afraid of using it with the plastic buckets! 😂 But we shall see what happens... In any case I'm going to search for metal buckets around! Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@esskayrepairrestoration8265]

That connecting hose from the extractor to the top of the cyclone looks a good candidate to be slowing down your air flow, the bends on it are pretty extreme for good air flow. You should put the bin on the floor and test again to see if it makes any difference.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I think it probably would help to lift the extractor higher still,, but I'm conscious that the closer I position it to the shelves above, the more likely it is to overheat. It does get quite hot after use....

[@FearsomeWarrior]

@@RagnBoneBrown If it was worth it for the suction, maybe you get bored/curious, you may be able to lower the shelf on one side and still fit the shorter packout under? Maybe not. Probably only a single digit percent suction difference.

[@benjaqsonworkshop9974]

Great vid. I have a very similar set up thanks to your recommendations and installed a master power switch like the old 30amp cooker big red switch in a white box type. It kills all power including the vac remote control - it's low tech and I have to remember to do it but it's effective and cheap. As your shop is away from the house you could link in an external light so you could see from the house if power is on.

[@Thesidingsworkshop]

Good video mate 👍

[@geralltgriffiths7772]

For peace of mind -- and security, perhaps you should get your electrician friend to install a "big red button" NVR switch by the door to the workshop. This would operate a contactor that would kill the power to *everything* in the shop. The "NVR" bit means that if power is interrupted and later restored, everything stays OFF. I'm almost surprised that there isn't a regulation insisting that you have one already, but nevertheless, I hope this is a helpful pointer to something that will make sleeping easier.

[@Wordsnwood]

Did you consider mounting the dust extractor even higher? If you can get it high enough that the inlet matches the height of the cyclone then you could put in some hard pipe with an elbow and get rid of the flex hose altogether?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

It's a good idea but the flex hose allows me to disconnect the cyclone easily for emptying it

[@WoodworkJourney]

All looking good! Would putting the vac even higher help the hose kink at the top of the CTS thingy?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I think it probably would, but I'm conscious that the closer I position it to the shelves above, the more likely it is to overheat. It does get quite hot after use....

[@zeroy]

Make sure that Smart Plug has the CE marking though else its an even bigger fire risk than before :D - Cheap knock off smart plugs are fairly prone to fail and can go on fire.

[@robertbamford8266]

Wonder how long the second motor might have been limping along.

[@Andrew-jn2pc]

Hi Keith great vid as always, as an Engineer I would definitely recommend you investing in either a single switch or contactor to the power circuit in your great workshop. I also observed that for your dust extraction system, caused the flexible hose to compress, this indicates significant back pressure in your system. I would assume this is due to running a 2.5” system with a 4” extractor. Keep up the great work. Andrew

[@athenarocar]

Check the smart plug to make sure it meets the voltage and amperage requirements of the tools you are using. Personally know someone who did something similar here in the USA and they burned down their house. They were using an appliance/tool rated at 40amps and most of those smart plugs are rated in the 10-15amp range. So check this out for safety.

[@customvacadaptersuk4716]

As its in a standard socket the appliance should be 13a max which the smart plug *should* also be. The joy of us running on 240v is our appliances can run at half the amps than the Americans and their 110v. Always worth double checking it though!

[@andygardiner6526]

@@customvacadaptersuk4716 A lot of the 240V smart/timer/remote power sockets run 10A, occasionally 15A resistive rated relays. These are not rated to regularly switch a 13A inductive load, where the arcing can burn contacts and startup current can be much higher than 13A. Best solution, if you want to use one, is to use the remote device as a signal to drive an inductively or much higher rated contactor (little universal motors need about 1.5x their rated running current, induction motors at least double). Bit of a faff but works well.

[@customvacadaptersuk4716]

@@andygardiner6526 Thanks Andy - I personally use the TP Link HS100 plugs in my house and they are indeed 13a but yes you're right to be cautious with the start up loads.

[@frankslittleworkshop]

😁 Nice one Keith. I watch with great interest how this cyclone performs (please do a followup vid when you have enough use from it). This looks like it could be the solution I've been looking for. Great to see you use an Anamometer, I used mine in a couple of my previous videos (don't know if you ever watched them or not), it really takes the "sucking guess work" out of how well your system is working. Thanks for the video mate... Nice to see the yellow pineapple attire is still in vogue 🤣👍

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Cheers Frank 👌

[@scott98390]

I'd like to know how much the flexible hose impacts performance - if you can, I'd love to see you swap it out for a rigid hose and see what the difference is.

[@rayroulstone3565]

Get your electriction friend to fit a contactor in the socket circuit that is activated by the light switch. That why when the lights are off no power is available to the sockets and the lights give you a visible indicator everything is on. You could even fit a bulkhead fitting on the outside of your shop wired to the lights so you have an external visual indicator.

[@jonathanhasmail]

Even better, either add a NVR switch to supply the extractor set up, that way if the power is cut, the supply to the device will be interrupted until the start button is pressed again, or even better, expand your contactor idea by adding an NVR and emergency stop buttons to the control circuit for the contactor, that way you can kill the entire supply to the workshop on leaving and should matters head south.

[@gbwildlifeuk8269]

A socket circuit activated by the light switch? "That way when the lights are off no power is available to the sockets" doesnt that mean the light switch is acting as a main switch for the sockets? Lighting cable in the UK is normally 1.5mm diameter, suitable to carry 15 amps. Cable for electric sockets is normally 2.5mm diameter, suitable to carry 20Amps. All single sockets must be capable of taking 13Amps. Therefore a single socket on a 15 amp cable would take up most of its capacity. Given the amperage of machines and hand power tools im not sure this would be safe.

[@jonathanhasmail]

@@gbwildlifeuk8269 The contactor being referenced is a device which enables a low current device (light switch) control a higher current circuit (sockets etc) without the issues you are alluding to.

[@rayroulstone3565]

@@gbwildlifeuk8269 esentally yes. But the contactor takes all the load and the light switch is just activating the contactor.

[@stuffoflardohfortheloveof]

That, my friend, is a brilliant idea and one I’d wished I’d thought of myself. I turn off the whole supply when I leave my own workshop and so have no issues with my remotes etc….. however, my mate asked me to wire up his two extractors complete with remotes but he refuses, cos he’s bloody lazy, to shut anything off when he leaves as it’s a faff with his setup. Your simple adaptation would work a treat and one that I’ll end up doing for him. 👍

[@marconeill9510]

I’ve been trying to find a way to connect my dewalt vac directly to my cyclone without a hose as the hose is kinked, just yours is. This is causing some loss in suction. The issue is the vac needs to be turned 90 degrees and mounted on the wall above the cyclone. And it takes up space. It’s mega frustrating 😡

[@DazJeffo]

Hi mate, Just bought one of these and I've looked online for metal barrels, and they are either the 45 gallon, like the one you featured, or they are to small, but the replacement you have purchased, looks the perferct size. Could you please provide a link to where you purchased that. TYIA.

[@Osamenta_Skullptures]

How did you make the dust collector not lift the bag up?

[@paulwestlake4278]

From personal experience, I would add a pressure valve to that tin receptacle. I have collapsed mine with a fairly small extractor.

[@PabloBD]

😁😁😁Yellow pants are back

[@RagnBoneBrown]

😍

[@daverowe4566]

Hi, I use the CTS quick click connectors, Iv just bought a domino, is there a cts connector that will fit on it?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Yes, I have one fitted to mine

[@daverowe4566]

@@RagnBoneBrown Can you remember which size? is the the 25mm internal, 32mm external adaptor? apologies

[@tim_biller]

Must be the Summer! ;-)

[@AndyLake]

Hi, great video. Can I ask where you purchased the new Steel Drum from, I'm based in Edinburgh.

[@terlgb]

Is there a link you can share to the 50l drum as I have been looking for one?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144014543241?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=MvcNAfrXRf6&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=IV4ENO4qSD-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[@RagnBoneBrown]

www.patrico.co.uk/steel/open-top-drums

[@johnryder6853]

Great vid once again Full of information Can I ask you what blades do you use in your Makita track saw if you don’t mind me asking

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I think the name of it is in my recent video about blades, a couple of months ago, there's a link in the description too I think

[@JohnMadeit]

I've been setting up my dust extraction system today. I've got one of the cheap cyclones. It seams to do a well enough job. only problem is when i try to suck up a lot of dust and chips at once then a lot of it get to the shop vac but during normal use it's been ok. Do you have this problem the cyclone also? Are you having to empty the vacuum often?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

It's not a problem I've noticed but it could be true of all of them. I very rarely empty my extractor, maybe once a year

[@customvacadaptersuk4716]

This is normal, the way it works is the high speed of the dust/chips forces it to the outside of the cyclone which then means it travels to the bottom and falls into the container. If it sucks up too much at once and starts to struggle the air speed reduces and so it then becomes easier for it to be sucked straight up the centre port and into the vac. Its good to try and avoid this but its not really a huge concern - i'm sure its still quite efficient :) Also, make sure your system is completely air tight, if there are any leaks especially in the cyclone or the container it will be less efficient.

[@JohnMadeit]

@@customvacadaptersuk4716 ok Thank you

[@ColinMasterson-o6h]

Hi Keith, Great video; I have modelled my shop dust extraction on your original ideas using 68mm pipe. I'm about to order the CTS cyclone you mention. Would you mind telling me where you got the 52L barrel you used. Thanks - keep up the good work. ColinM from North Herts.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Google 52l barrel and it'll appear. I think I got it from Patrico

[@thenarcotk]

Where did you buy the 52L metal barrel from?

[@veronica5896]

Thanks for sharing!

[@richardkeith2778]

BTW, I tried contacting CTC to ask them to put a model number on the different size connectors, but they didnt even acknowledge me. My point being is whan you get a new tool, you try the connectors you have. A model number would tell you exactly what one to order, rather than having to measure it, then find it on their website. I have three waiting to measure up and buy, but I resent badly thought out processes !!

[@thenarcotk]

I've found the same problem with cen-tec, a bit frustrating eh

[@davidwilliamson2115]

What i find useful is to have two Jigsaws when doing projects so that I don't have to fiddle around changing blades

[@ashleycox432]

I really wouldn't recommend using smart plugs with machinery. Machinery with large motors present a heavy inductive load which can shorten the life of the typical relays used in smart plugs, which aren't of the best quality to begin with. As a result the contacts in the relays can arc more than usual when the load is switched, and eventually fail. In some cases possibly causing the same problem you had before, where a relay fails in the 'on' position, switches on and leaves a machine running.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Uh oh.... 🙁

[@peterhaskew]

I agree, but Keith is primarily using the smart plug as an isolator, rather than actually switching the load with it, so I don't think it need be a big concern.

[@ashleycox432]

@@peterhaskew True, though it's still a heavy load for what is probably a fairly low quality relay. Better safe than sorry IMO

[@markgambrill]

Does the cyclone not suck the bag up into itself? I have some big bags that I empty mine into but not thought about keeping a bag in it.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I've not had an issue with it, once it's got a bit of weight in it it's fine 👍

[@JohnMadeit]

11m/s is the speed of the air. you need to times that by the area of the pipe to get the flow. I think your pipe was about 64mm? If so the area will be 32cm2 = 0.0032m2 11m/s x 0.0032m2 = 0.0352m3/s = 74cfm (I could be wrong😬)

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Cheers!

[@ShieTar_]

Perfectly correct, just for completion: the Scaling factor is 2119 cfm per "cubic meter per second". Which means I get closer to 75 cfm if I do the full equation without rounding. One note though, the way Keith was holding the speedometer to the end of the tube, it might be better to use the effective diameter of the measurement tool rather than the diameter of the tubing to get the right numbers. Since it seemed to be a bit smaller.

[@keiththompson8289]

@@RagnBoneBrown just for info, the twin motor Numatic workshop vacs produce around 390 cfm using the 100mm hose, so reducing your system to 65mm significantly reduces air flow, but not vacuum pressure. Your 11m/sec is way below the LEV recommended 20m/sec at the machine connection for a static extraction system, but for a domestic situation its not so important. If it keeps your tools clear of dust then its working.

[@customvacadaptersuk4716]

Thanks for the shout out Keith, I'm glad you like them :) Like you mentioned, you can spend hours on the net trying to find the right adapters and a lot of the time they simply don't exist so you end up cobbling together a few different bits and its just a minefield. I'm very happy to provide a solution! Cheers, Dan

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Cheers Dan, you're doing great things!

[@marconeill9510]

It’s ridiculous how many different fittings and diameters there are. As it’s a health n safety issue, it should be standardised through the industry. I’ve got a dewalt vac and all dewalt tools and even some of their fittings aren’t completely compatible within the range. And the airlock fittings are a fortune for what they are.

[@jmwoodcraft7842]

Do you have an affiliate link for the shorts?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I have been trying to find another pair but no luck 🙁

[@rexb6478]

Is this a UK only system? also is this a 50/60hertz, 110VAC or 220?

[@samrix5793]

How come you didn't look at the 100mm Axminster separator?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Because it's £140, and it's designed for hvlp extractors

[@shellyjones3046]

Wouldn't a new extractor been cheaper then the parts?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

No, nowhere near in fact. They retail at £700

[@warrenusher3175]

Hi, Hope you read this. You mentioned getting a drum sander and Axminster tools in high Wycombe have one in there clearance sale I think is was around £1000.00 so about 2 grand off. I know you like a bargain.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Cheers Warren, long journey for me unfortunately. Sounds like a bargain though

[@RagnBoneBrown]

In this video I upgrade my workshop dust collection system. Videos mentioned: Setting Up My Dust Extraction Video kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmSyZ6F7n7uKqK8 Setting Up My Cyclone Video kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6CVf62qippkjdk Making My Blast Gates Video kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3KpoIuHqN1lkLM Vlog 17 (Dust Extractor Incident) kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWKbaHmfoaaeqMk Peter Millard's Fire Safety Video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJTbo419jrOMjs0 Products Featured: Anemometer amzn.to/3PcdohH Amazon UK geni.us/HarxZfj Amazon Worldwide (affiliate link) CTS - hoses, quick click adapters, thien baffle cyclone and vacuum accessories link: centraltechnologysystems.co.uk/ref/8/?campaign=Rag'n'BoneBrown (affiliate link) Custom Vac Adapters (Dan Goodier) facebook.com/CustomVacAdaptersUK/ instagram.com/CustomVacAdaptersUK email: [e-mail] My Extractor: Numatic NVD750 (Axminster) - www.tagserve.com/clickServlet?AID=2469&MID=485&PID=691&SID=3060&CID=1965&LID=1276&SUBID=&TARGETURL=www.axminstertools.com/numatic-nvd750-workshop-vacuum-extractor-230v-702412 Numatic HEPA Micro Filter (Axminster) - www.tagserve.com/clickServlet?AID=2469&MID=485&PID=691&SID=3060&CID=1965&LID=1276&SUBID= Numatic NVD750 (Axminster) - www.tagserve.com/clickServlet?AID=2469&MID=485&PID=691&SID=3060&CID=1965&LID=1276&SUBID=&TARGETURL=www.axminstertools.com/numatic-hepa-module-for-nvd750-wmd750-210657 General Axminster Affiliate Link - www.tagserve.com/clickServlet?AID=2469&MID=485&PID=691&SID=3060&CID=1965&LID=1276&SUBID= 🔨 MY TOOLS 🔨 For links to the tools I use, plus some of my favourite consumables, finishes and more see links below. As an Amazon Associate I may earn a small commission from qualifying purchases: UK affiliate store: www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ragnbonebrown US affiliate store: www.amazon.com/shop/ragnbonebrown 🤝 HELP SUPPORT THE CHANNEL 🤝 Support with KZbin channel membership: kzbin.info/door/VyE_6jEtVZGmYGXtUOL5FQjoin Support with Patreon: www.patreon.com/ragnbonebrown Support with PayPal paypal.me/ragnbonebrown Shop With Amazon using my affiliate link: geni.us/iWD3K 💰 SHOP 💰 Etsy: www.etsy.com/uk/shop/KeithBrownMaker teespring.com/stores/rag-n-bone-brown-merch 🎧 WORKSHOP BANTER PODCAST 🎧 kzbin.info Also available on Spotify, Apple, Google and most other podcast platforms 🔗 LINKS: 🔗 Website: www.ragnbonebrown.com Facebook: facebook.com/ragnbonebrown Instagram: @ragnbonebrown Twitter: twitter.com/ragnbonebrown Email: [e-mail] Second KZbin Channel (non woodwork videos): kzbin.info

[@davidbroadfoot1864]

CFM (Cubic Feet per Minute) is not the Imperial analog of M/S. CFM is volumetric; M/S is linear. Firstly, staying with metric... to go from (linear) M/S to (volumetric) CMH (Cubic Meters per Hour), we need to consider the volume of the cylinder, which is L x pi*R^2. In this case, for your 65mm ID pipe, that's 14.7 * 3.14159 * (.065/2)^2 = 0.049 cubic meters per second. Multiply by 3600 to get CMH. That's 175 CMH. Put simply, for your 65mm ID pipe, to go from M/S to CMH, simply multiply by 12. To go from m/s to feet/sec, multiply by 3.28 To go from CMH to CFM, divide by 1.7

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I know this and I did the calculations online using a calculator including volume of the duct

[@michaelevans1658]

Could you just switch the plug off at the machine Keith? That’s what I do.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I would never remember to do it

[@lfernandplopsa3627]

Why all that complication with remote sockets and so on , just wire a flip breaker in a box for all you're power and when leaving the shop just flip it and shop is power free 😁😁👍👍

[@colemine7008]

I'm not clear on your use or lack there of, of the large filter that is behind you in this video. Are you setting it up later, and just to keep the video simplified not mentioning it? BTW, enjoy your videos.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

The HVLP extractor? That is used separately for my planer and table saw cabinet

[@davidcantrill]

Why do you always wear ear defenders when you do any job?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Music

[@simonlunt353]

I was interested in your video and it’s great to see what you have done But these yellow shorts mate l had to laugh 😂 then when I saw 👀 other peoples comments I was laughing again sorry mate but you do make us laugh your packouts put some wheels on the front it makes it easier too put under your shelf see jakeofall

[@Professional_Youtube_Commenter]

"dust" extraction 🤣

[@RagnBoneBrown]

?

[@cazee100]

Keith please will you stop,wearing those yellow shorts, looks like you’re in your undies!!!

[@negotiableaffections]

I kinda like them

[@mattcullen8269]

Regarding speed/flow measurement - what you're measuring is linear speed of the air which is going to increase/decrease with different pipe diameters. Totally fine to use for a relative measurement at a static point but think you'd need to calculate mass flow rate to use for any other kind of comparison www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/Images/mfr.gif

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thanks