Upgrading to the Himalayan 452? My Thoughts on the Matter.

Now that Royal Enfield has announced the new Himalayan 450, or 452 as I like to call it, questions have mounted on whether I'll be upgrading my 2022 Himalayan. The motorcycles won't come to the USA until next year but I thought I would share my thoughts on a motorcycle upgrade and whether my time with my Royal Enfield Himalayan 411 is drawing to a close.
#motorcycle #royalenfield #himalayan

[@Free_Ranger_CT110]

If the new bike is a Himalayan, then the 411 is a Sherpa. Solid, dependable, reliable. Capable of carrying heavy loads up a mountain without any fuss, day in day out...

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Yes sir. My 411 is a sherpa...

[@25chief39]

Except that RE have already named the new 452 engine platform as the "Sherpa" ...

[@billsmith3019]

I enjoy your laid-back easy going nature and your philosophy. If it ain't broke don't fix it, if it does the job don't replace it. My daughter tells me I need a new I-phone, because mine is a I-phone 6 and the new ones (13??) are so much better and have such good cameras. I said, you're the one that takes all the pictures, not me. My phone works for phone calls, text messaging, youtube music and a few occasional pics. That's all I need, I'll keep it 'til it dies. You have beautiful places to ride...enjoy!

[@ScooterintheSticks]

It has taken some time to adapt that "if it ain't broke" philosophy. Slowing down through thought, old age, and riding has helped shine a light on many of the follies I had engaged. And I should confess that I recently upgraded my two year old iPhone SE to an iPhone 14 Pro. But I had good reason -- I wanted the improved video and optical capabilities that contribute to my videos. This one was the first to utilize the new iPhone. But generally speaking, my approach is along the lines of yours.

[@KrakensGarageandAdventures]

I kind of already knew the answer. You have everything you need and want in your current Himalayan. Sound thoughts in your decision.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Yeah, it gives me everything I need.

[@nicholasjarrold8649]

Hi I’m nick from the uk 🇬🇧 just started watching your channel and I love them you are the type of person I could listen to for ages and never get bored very wise person I say don’t bother with the new Himalayan I agree it’s a totally new bike it’s not like they’ve just put the bad things right they’ve built the new one from the ground up which means they need a year or two to see how they go I’m gonna catch up on your other videos so take care out there and ride safe 💪👍

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Thank you for the kind words about the things I post and for taking the time to watch. I hope I can continue to produce videos worth watching. The new Himalayan certainly seems like a completely different motorcycle. I'm glad I have the 411. It stands out as unique in the moto world.

[@danzuelch]

My Himalayan does everything I purchased it to do and it does it all well. It has become my favorite motorcycle. It's biggest deficiency is me. It needs me to spend more time in the saddle. :) From your younger viewer (65) in the state next door.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

I agree. Whatever limitations exist it is most often because of me and not the motorcycle. More riding is good for the soul and clearing up any deficiencies I might have.

[@edwardkaminsky8142]

Thrilled to see you riding in the 40 degree weather Steve. You have some absolutely gorgeous riding area and I would definitely be concerned with riding alone way out in the willywags. I carry a compass, whistle, and first aid kit upon careful realization I may need these and like others ( "Rest day Rider- Charlie ") we follow others sensible lead. I have no desire anymore to do wheelies and hole shots so the 452 will not be on my wish list. The 2022 Himalayan works wonderfully for me. We dont have those secondary roads in Vegas but we swap off items like ( very little rain but july and August is hot as hell) pleasantries. No fun sweating like a dog with a helmet on. Stay safe, and dig your Hi- Viz.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

I have a first aid kit but I often forget to move it to the scooter or motorcycle that I'm riding. And I've been considering a Garmin InReach Mini 2 for months now for those times when I am somewhere alone with no cell coverage. And along with those thoughts comes the idea that maybe I shouldn't be riding in the willywags alone anymore. But the riding landscape here is seductive. It eventually pulls me past any decline in temperature. And like you, all my riding now falls into the "sensible" category. And that is part of the reason the 452 doesn't offer any interest. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I appreciate them.

[@secretariat-13]

Hello Steve, great answer to that question, lots of us, yes, myself included tent to upgrade just because, we can, we like the looks, color and so on, I need to become more frugal, wait, I’m not frugal at all and that’s the problem lots of us have. Love your style and how you see life as a whole.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

I'm not frugal. I just find myself disinterested in buying things I don't want or need. But I still do from time to time. Today I dropped a boot off for repair at the local Amish harness and saddle shop. While there I bought a new pair of insulated and waterproof Redwing boots. The Irish Setter brand Elk Trackers. I'm ready for winter. Didn't really need them though. I guess...

[@ChuckChrome]

All improvements are changes but not all changes are improvements. If I was looking for a bike in that segment I'd probably get the newest. There are some practical advantages like warrantees and parts availability but if I have something that is reliable and enjoyable I don't see a compelling reason to switch up aside from just wanting something new. That is ok too. I used to do it quite often. I just got tired of the cost of "newness" as that wears off quickly and I'm left with something that looks different but fundamentally does the same thing on the same roads as what it just replaced.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

I agree with the idea that the cost of "newness" can grow tiresome. Life seems more relaxed when I'm not always chasing perfection. I hear a lot about warranties but I'm struggling to remember ever using one for anything. That can't be true after so many years but it is never really a consideration for me.

[@martyn_g]

Totally get that. If it fits your uses, stick with it. However, on every metric, the new 452 out performs it. Not having a 411, and if there was a 411 and a 452 on the floor, I’d take the 452 hands down.

[@EpicAdamMotovlogs]

My Himalayan 411 is going to be my winter bike and off road bike, so I don't need to upgrade it. It's perfect for where you ride and the pace you enjoy riding

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Makes sense. I'll ride the Himalayan in the winter until it gets really cold. My Vespa GTS is the true winter machine for me. It's good down below 0F.

[@twinphill900]

You give off a peaceful, easy feeling 😊

[@ScooterintheSticks]

I try. The more I accept the reality before me the easier it all seems to be.

[@twinphill900]

@@ScooterintheSticks great perspective ❤️

[@richicago20]

@@ScooterintheSticksi need to learn this.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

@@richicago20 It takes some work. And a willingness to change.

[@RonniesRambles]

You hit the nail on the head from my perspective - "...completely new bike...". Where I am in Thailand I don't need much more speed and if I have to go on a main highway for any length of time, the shoulders are designated scooter/mc lanes so everyone is used to slower mc and scooters puttering along in spite of the freeway.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

For those desiring more speed and power the new Himalayan may satisfy those needs. But since it is a brand new motorcycle I wonder how many will stray to other brands already with more power? I suppose a lot will depend on the final price tag.

[@vincenz0]

The newest Himalayan 411s have very good build quality in my opinion. In America, we have the latest Himalayan 411 BS6 with the reinforced chassis because 411s from 2016 to 2018 are known to have chassis issues... If you ride hard on the trail the frame would break in two... The 452 is a very different motorcycle. It is liquid cooled... So it's way more complex in terms of maintenance and breakdowns... I love my 411 because it's so basic and I know how to ensure that I keep it being reliable. It is a bit heavy for it's power train... It does constantly discharge it's battery... And people do have a bad opinion about Royal Enfield build quality. But I love my 411 Himalayan.. I want to keep it for a long time.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

My 2022 US version seems very sturdy and well made. No issues or complaints so far. But the new 452 just seems like an entirely different motorcycle. And as you say more complex. One of the things I like about my 411 mirrors your thoughts -- basic and simple. So far the weight to power issues don't have an effect on my riding but I am an old, slow rider. I plan to keep it as long as I can still ride it.

[@AliasMrHackenbacker]

I think you have summed up my feelings regarding the 411 vs 452. I have made little modifications to my 411 that now tailor the bike for my own comfort and enjoyment. I have seen and sat on the new 452 at the Motorcycle Live event here in the UK and it appears to be a quality motorcycle and would probably attract people who would buy KTM 390 or BMW 310 GS. It is a step up in quality from the 411 but this is what RE are doing now, each new model is better finished than the last new bike as witnessed by the 650 Super Meteor over the Intercepter. I have a test ride booked when the 452 is available at the dealers but my 411 is not going anywhere soon as it totally performs the role I bought it for. The price for the 452 in the UK has still not been set.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

It will be interesting to see how things shake out with the 452. It will be awhile before it comes to the US but I'm sure there will be lots of reviews from Europe and Asia. The continuous quality improvement sort of scares me though. The terms quality and improvement are so subjective. Especially in terms of size, power, instrumentation, etc. One of the things I love about the Himalayan is it's simple old school feel. All the new bikes I've ridden just seem kind of boring. Maybe I haven't spent enough time on them.

[@AliasMrHackenbacker]

I wouldn't argue with you about the blandness of some of the modern bikes, as you say the Himalayan has that old school feeling which is the thing that attracted it to me. I don't need rider modes or TFT displays just usable real world power and simple clear instrumentation. I will be getting a test ride on the new Himalayan when my local dealer gets his demo bike. My 411 puts a smile on my face and makes me late getting home because I always what to see what's down that lane or just round the corner!@@ScooterintheSticks

[@anthonywillcox9864]

Hi Steve. Personally I love long stroke singles. So I will stick to my faithful BS6 Himalayan. As you know, It's not What the bike can do that matters, but What YOU do with it. Anyway, good to hear from you. Regards from a much younger (66) 😂 french follower. Take Care. 👍

[@ScooterintheSticks]

I definitely find that I ride within the limitations of the machines I ride. They are capable of delivering what I need with a lot of potential left over. Thanks for taking the time to comment. I hope all is well with you.

[@UncleVoodoo]

I don’t see any reason to upgrade from the 411 to the 450 unless you absolutely need to be able to run highway speeds. I hope they don’t get away from the old school air cooled bikes anytime soon…. as they are the last bastion of “making them like they used to”.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Yep. No need from my riding life. I want to ride less on high speed highways. And when I do the 411 moves me as fast as I want to go. But I have to remember I'm in a "quiet" portion of Pennsylvania. I agree -- I hope Royal Enfield does not completely abandon the air-cooled bikes that has pulled them from the motorcycle scrap heap of history.

[@kittywampus]

I don't think I'll be looking at the new one for a while. I think I finally got my 22 set up the way I want, and I don't want to have to do it all over again. 😅 I just put a dash cam in this last week after having someone come within inches of hitting me. It's such a simple machine that you can drop without a lot of worry.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Makes perfect sense to me.

[@kz1000st1]

Oh but Steve, like Tim Allen says, "More Power!" No...A learned Motorcycle journalist said years ago, "Avoid first year engines like the plague." Gordon Jennings c.1966

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Well, I can't comment on the wisdom of Tim Allen. After all, he's been Santa Claus and who am I to question him?? Jenning's admonition about first year engines might make some sense. No one knows yet how good a job Royal Enfield has done with its new powerplant.

[@joeh773]

I am happy your Himalayan suits you as well as it does, it is obvious from these videos. With you having W650, and two Vespas, I am not surprised you're not upgrading. After all, the GTS300 has been around forever and you still chug on the 250. For me the outgoing Himalayan has been very interesting bike but never a contender. The new one seems to me very close to perfect. If it was 600cc, I wouldn't care, but the 452 looks great, on paper. I hope it will be just as successful for RE as the old one was. Now if only they made modernized 500cc Bullet again, that I'd actually pay for. Have you ever considered the RE Int 650 before you bought W650?

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Before I found the W650 I was seriously considering a Classic 350. The Interceptor crossed my mind but I never got that far. I'm not a comparison shopper and tend to buy the first thing I come across that meets my needs and feels right. That's what happened with the W650. You are right about me just chugging along on something until it stops. The GTS and Himalayan share that. It will be a long time before I see one of the new Himalayans but it seems difficult to believe I would want to give up the one I have now.

[@DiscoverIndia4K]

Iam going to take delivery of my new 411 Himalayan this week...🎉 I like the old Himalayan 411

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Congratulations! I hope you find the experience on it as satisfying as I have had on mine.

[@DiscoverIndia4K]

🥰@@ScooterintheSticks

[@Stefan_trekkie]

This kind of gravel roads from this episode is my absolute favorite suffice to ride on. I can ride on them for hours on end.. I did that in my old days, riding the old faithful Transalp from 94' I find it very therapeutically relaxing. Anyway, too much of topic. It was very logical and anticipated upgrade on the bike. Many people use it for travel and wanted more top end power for highways as well as suspention to cope with more power and a bit more fun riding. The bike will be good for whom needs it. I am thinking for some time about the Honda adv 350 adventure scooter.. It will be able to cope with gravel roads like yours. The original Himalayan will become future classic for sure.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

So many great gravel roads near my home. I''m lucky in that regard. And the Himalayan just chews them up. The Honda ADV scooter looks pretty cool. It seems like it would easily navigate the gravel roads here. I used to see an old Transalp in town. I loved the look of that motorcycle.

[@Winterbiker333]

Good choice

[@ScooterintheSticks]

It's the right choice for me.

[@TheCoopdway]

The question continues to come in here...."will you upgrade?". By far the majority of people that ask (should by now) know me already expect the answer. My '18 was the first white one in MN, I looked at one on a pedestal, couldn't even reach it, at the January Show and put my name on the list. A friend delivered it, knowing I was planning on having it for an over 900 mile long weekend, something we both survived. Already an owner of a '10 Bullet w/sidecar and following 2 years of refinement around the rest of the world, I wasn't at all worried. At the time there was one RE dealer in MN, 80 miles away....this bike has never been back there. As you say Steve, there's nothing wrong with this one, I don't want, certainly don't need something else. One more time, this one was made for what I do. The garage is full of choices, my Himmi is still my favorite and even if I weren't 69 or promised myself and others (to keep myself honest) I'll be buying no more machines, this 411 would stay. It's got just short of 29k miles, there were another 80 miles ridden yesterday and it's the last of the bunch to see its Winter Sleep. It's an old friend, can't imagine it not being here.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

I suspect those who know me best knew I wasn't going to switch horses. I just enjoy the Himalayan as it is and have no desire to go faster or ride harder. Just an old guy putting along through the woods. We're the same age and I suspect my motorcycle buying days are past lest something gets stolen or explodes. I can see buying another Vespa someday though. You have a lot more mileage on. your Himalayan than I do. Four machines to ride and circumstances have diminished the miles I ride. But I'm still finding endless enjoyment on the rides I do make. No winter sleep for anything here. Maybe the W650. But I'll be adding the muffs to the Vespa and Himalayan soon.

[@twloughlin]

Really, Steve, this could have been a KZbin short. We all knew the answer! 😉

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Yeah, I could have stood in front of the camera and just said, "Nope."

[@kmdionis]

♥️ Little Flat. I kept watching the road ahead for the shape of a big bear or other wild thing. Do you ever see Any creatures up there? The roads up there look like they're in a lot better shape than they used to be.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Over the years I've seen a lot of deer, squirrels, hawks, vultures, and even a few black bears. But never on the trail to Little Flat. The dogs have smelled deer though and disappeared in pursuit with me having to return at midnight to find the hound asleep on the jacket I left where the car was parked. A joyous sight! Galbraith Road is in good shape. The trail to the fire tower not as much. And the stretch beyond the gate is pretty bad. Couldn't get our cars up there.

[@kmdionis]

@@ScooterintheSticks Did they take down the cell towers? They used that road in the past to get up there.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

@@kmdionis there are more cell towers than ever up there now.

[@kmdionis]

@@ScooterintheSticks How will the trucks get up there now? Maybe they all ride vespas now! 😂

[@ScooterintheSticks]

@@kmdionis I think those service vehicles for the cell and microwave towers probably come prepared with 4WD and big tires. They shouldn't have any issues navigating the road with the ground clearance on those trucks. But a Honda Fit or Odyssey van -- probably not a good idea. Not enough ground clearance.

[@martyn_g]

I’m definitely looking at a 452 - I want it to be on the market for a bit first, so that any bugs are ironed out first. Don’t care what the brand is, the first ones off the production line will ALWAYS have issues.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

I was thinking the same thing. The first Himalayan's had issues. Took a year or two to work them out.

[@shilohsamgary]

I not be updating there’s things I like about the 411 that 452 does not have, Long stroke, Air cooled, attractive vertical cylinder, also prefer a 2 valve cylinder head. Cable type throttle not fly by wire.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

My own feelings align with yours. And the mechanical simplicity of the 411 has its own attraction.

[@rechard-jb9cr]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. By extension, don't replace it. 👍

[@ScooterintheSticks]

That's a good way to think about it.

[@oscartravis5740]

Personally I think the new iteration isn't enough of a leap forward to warrant changing the 411 for. Had it been a 550 or 600cc engine, then it could be a contender for the perfect all-round bike

[@ScooterintheSticks]

What's cool about all of this is we each get to define the perfect bike. For me, there is no perfect bike. It's why I have two scooters and two motorcycles!

[@oscartravis5740]

Hahaha! Touche! 😀@@ScooterintheSticks

[@ScooterintheSticks]

@@oscartravis5740 I told my wife there’s room in the garage for one more scooter or motorcycle! She did not appreciate my thinking.🙈😵‍💫😂

[@eliut6855]

I own a 411, 2024 brand new, and I still like how it looks the new one is just another “modern” bike. And here I’d like to hear your opinion im 55, Im planing to do a 30000 miles trip from mexico to alaska but crossing both countries, so the way I see it the 411 can be easily fixed by me on the road. I am still wondering of how reliable is the engine for such a long trip. Right now it haves only 350 miles and I can hear the sound of the valves, It’s easy to check how is the light. I wonder if it is normal sound or it will go away once the engine is more loose after 2000. Cheers

[@ScooterintheSticks]

I agree with you that the new Himalayan looks like a lot of other modern motorcycles. One of the things I like about the 411 is the "old style" air cooled, no frills construction. Like an old pickup truck before they became luxury vehicles. The engine is noisy. When I did the 300 mile valve check I found it pretty much correct. It's just the way they could. Compared to a lot of other motorcycles that seem mechanically silent the Himalayan gives you an earful. I suspect you can cross continents on the Himalayan. Itchy Boots did on a much older version. And being so mechanically simple it's more likely you'll find a mechanic who can work on it provided you have parts. Sounds like a real adventure you have planned. At 55 I would have been able to manage it. Now almost 70 I'm not so sure...

[@clangerbasher]

I think the Scram will do a lot better with the new engine.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

Are they going to upgrade the SCRAM engine too?

[@clangerbasher]

@@ScooterintheSticks I assume so. It is the street friendly version after all.

[@hikerbikerallnightcamper1393]

I don’t think the new one will have the character of the 411 there is something about the simple air cooled unit and analogue dials that makes it special for me.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

The 411 Himalayan is full of "character." It's probably the main reason I chose it over a lot of other motorcycles in its class.

[@clangerbasher]

The 452 is not the same sort of bike as the original. RE needed a new bike to hold market share. But they have had to adapt to market expectations.

[@ScooterintheSticks]

You're right. It is a completely different machine. And I suspect they are basing their decisions on market research. I had hoped they would keep the 411 as a Himalayan and bring the new bike out under a different name. The "Sherpa" maybe. But it appears that's not the case. But my riding needs and desires are outliers in the moto world. Someone content with a 411 and will ride it until it dies (or I do) won't make for a profitable business model. Royal Enfield is making some good stuff. I hope they don't get swept away by market research and become just another machine amongst a lot of boring machines.

[@clangerbasher]

@@ScooterintheSticks I can see some of the reasoning for the bigger engine. The old bike wasn't fast enough for city roads perhaps and this is where most of these adventure bikes end up. I am still new to this riding lark and even I understand the need for some oomph to keep up. And I am slow rider. Perhaps if I ever crack changing gear with my foot I will get an original Himalayan.

[@25chief39]

Steve, what's the "happy" cruising speed of your 411 on a highway?

[@ScooterintheSticks]

It feels best cruising in the 45 to 65 range. On the interstate it will cruise at 70 but you can tell you're pushing it. But on secondary roads I bumble along at 45 with a smile on my face.

[@25chief39]

@@ScooterintheSticks That's adequate for around here, in New Zealand, where 60mph is the open road limit.

[@moistyfeet]

Hi there, yeah i was thinking of switching to the new Himalayan, but i think i will skip that one as well, and i might buy and older 660 Yamaha instead or something like that i think its a better buy , the new Himalayan has to much electronics, i don't like that and i must say i am starting to get pi... of, hearing " thats the bike itchy rides" 😅 and i really don't like her 😅 well no matter what, the new Himalayan will be pretty expensive in Denmark, we have to high taxes on motorcycles ...

[@ScooterintheSticks]

I understand the concern about electronics. I end up feeling more and more distant from understanding how things work as microchips and computers take over more of the operations of a motorcycle or scooter. I'm not sure what the right answer is. Probably isn't one. For me the important step is to accept that the machine is an expense to buy, operate, and maintain. Otherwise I'll end up complaining and fretting over things I have little control. At the end of the day I want to ride on something that's reasonably reliable, enjoyable, and looks pretty! Right now my Himalayan, Kawasaki W650, and two Vespa scooters meet those criteria. Good luck on your search for your replacement. And by the way, you don't like Itchy Boots? It's a short distance between itchy feet and moisty feet!

[@moistyfeet]

@@ScooterintheSticks he he he , yeah there is a short distance between those things, but naaa not my cup of tea 😂, well I think I have it like u , I want something that's reliable, simple, I do think that royal Enfield still as some of that on the new Himalayan, it seems like they still use the old tapping valve , so that's a good thing I guess , but lets see when the first batch gets to people, and if something breaks down ..

[@KrakensGarageandAdventures]

I just started the video, and I'm guessing no! 😂

[@ScooterintheSticks]

You're a smart guy! That trip to Australia didn't blunt your cognitive abilities!!

[@HunterVlog350cc]

No need to buy the new one unles syou wnat to tour on freeways at high speed, in offroading the good old 411 is very good, you will not find those type of engines in future , similarly the 350cc j series is also very characterfull at speeds below 70mph

[@ScooterintheSticks]

You nailed it -- wanting to be able to ride at high speeds. 70 to 75 is high enough for me. 25 to 45 is preferable. Air-cooled engines are going to become more and more rare as everyone pursues more and more power.

[@HunterVlog350cc]

@@ScooterintheSticks try bullet 500 if you can find one in your country it is even more rare and lot of low end torque