Using a Beal Birdie Safely for Saddle Hunting

[@brianbennett8445]

I was looking at the Birdie. So glad I saw your video. I'm convinced it is not for us saddle hunters. Thanks for the heads up!

[@SaddleHunter]

No problem, thanks for watching.

[@shannonstone6644]

Man I love your videos for saddle hunting really detailed and super informative I was actually thinking about buying the birdie but after watching don't think I will

[@AndyK0689]

This is great information and well organized. For all you SH using the Birdie, this is an informative, and hopefully eye opener! Save yourself the risk and money by going back to friction knots. Back everything up because if you have a fall, the first thing you're going to think is, "I should have backed that up" or "Should have used a stopper knot."

[@SaddleHunter]

Good point Andy. Thanks for watching.

[@bigjimar77]

I used this device. It worked flawlessly for me.

[@pstanley284]

I've watched a few of your videos now. Your content is TOP NOTCH. The best saddlehunting channel I've yet seen. One recommendation, however. You don't need to scream into the camera. Talk softer, we can hear you, pal. You'll see subscriber numbers jump after you make that simple adjustment.

[@SaddleHunter]

Thanks for watching Paul. I appreciate the tip. I’ve been working on a video for the last few weeks and have been trying to consciously make that change. I public speak for a living and it is a bad habit I’ve gotten into from speaking to crowds all the time.

[@glennl9630]

He saves us alot of headaches! Explained well!

[@SaddleHunter]

Thanks for watching!

[@TheMichiganShow]

Well done. Was looking at the differences between the 3 (grigri, birdie, safeguard) and this video showed me I need something else

[@SaddleHunter]

Thanks!

[@UnfiItered]

The safeguard always hold tension so it don't slip. He mixed lifeguard up with safeguard... I got all 4 so I know.

[@TheMichiganShow]

@@UnfiItered do you prefer the safeguard?

[@UnfiItered]

@@TheMichiganShow yes, it's always holding tension so the rope never slips unless you're using out of spec rope or you're pulling the release. There's mad rock lifeguard (spring loaded) and mad rock safeguard (not spring loaded). I know it sounds like you should get the spring loaded but it's the opposite. The spring holds the jaw open so you can feed the rope through easily when belaying. So if you're repelling you want the non-spring. This guy compares the safeguard to the grigri (birdie and lifeguard works just like the grigri) kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2fVZoKtaNVkg8k . As for rope size, get the in between spec. Don't matter if it's static or dynamic, I prefer static for repelling.

[@TheMichiganShow]

@@UnfiItered cool, I have the safeguard getting delivered on Thursday. My rope is 11mm so I’m good

[@Counselor77]

Just got my Beal Birdie today and I can't wait to use it.

[@SaddleHunter]

I hope you enjoy it. Let me know how it goes for you. Thanks for watching!

[@mehrdadsharifi9081]

Very informative. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with everyone.

[@SaddleHunter]

Thanks for watching! I enjoy doing it!

[@hunterblades9129]

Great information, that’s mine is backup with a prusik

[@CB-uh5er]

Great video, just got one of these and this was super informative

[@teejayleonard]

I use this device as well as the grigri. Always take the slack end and tie a knot over the ascender.

[@jordancoats86]

I chose to go with a RollnLock ascender as primary while climbing and hunting and using the Birdie to rappelling. Seems to be a pretty safe set up. Would you agree? I appreciate your videos always informative and straight forward with out bias.

[@danhoff4401]

This is a good video you are covering alot of bases here on safety and it's stuff we all need to be thinking about. I climb on a birdie, back it up with a jammy below on my bridge loop with a tender. This helps with tension but you still have the slippage issue when you stand up on a larger platform and if you don't pay attn this can give you a jerk when you sit down, but backed up it can't slip farther than the slack you had on the prussic when you were sitting. The madrock safeguard is a better choice for this reason, but the safety issue is moot. Beal doesn't recommend the device for RADS but it is still rated for fall arrest on rope that is in spec and any safety device will jerk you around of you allow slack in the system. We should be promoting these belay devices over ropemans and ducks. Also your method is very redundant and therefore very safe, but there is way too much metal for me. I have two biners and I might switch it up to try to get it to one. Metal on metal contact is the enemy.

[@SaddleHunter]

Excellent thoughts, thanks for watching. I agree about the devices. The CT Roll n Lock is a better choice than the kong or ropeman. In their manual it shows using it in a RADS set up.

[@tommygunrva]

There are better, more efficient ways to do this. If you throw on your lineman's belt for hands-free safety, you can literally just tie in whatever autoblock you like (Machard, Prusik, Valdotain Tresse) to your tether/rappelling line above the device, run it through the same carabiner, pull up the slack, and sit into it. Also... you ABSOLUTELY CAN use a brake-assisted belay device as a primary attachment at hunting height. Joe and Scott at NYSaddleHunter say these devices are fine, as long as your ropes are in spec and you tie in an autoblock above OR BELOW them. I use a VT Prusik autoblock below my Birdie, with the carabiner hooked to the brake-hand-side on my lineman's loop. This keep constant tension on the Birdie. I can use it to one-stick climb, and I have hung in it for 11+ hours on more than one occasion. For the record, I weigh 270 lbs. with NO GEAR. Some people go above the belay device, and some go below it. Some people like a second bridge to center the lower autoblock. It's a matter of personal comfort. There's more than one way to skin a deer. Either way, you can tie it all on without all that extra crap you did. no offense bud, but that would spook every deer within a quarter mile where I hunt. You just didn't do enough research here, in my opinion. I will not hit the dislike button though. I'm not a dick.

[@SaddleHunter]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's a fine line making videos like this, you almost have to do things "by the book" so that someone who is inexperienced doesn't hurt themselves. The sling to the hand ascender and a backup clove hitch are common place when ascending in the rock climbing and mountaineering world. Will every hunter use them both? No, but it hopefully gets guys thinking about having more than one connection to the rope (e.g. the birdie or gri-gri). The lineman belt is a good alternative, thanks for pointing that out. I didn't show that method because I don't like to carry a lineman belt when I am climbing SRT. I contacted Beal directly and asked them a series of questions before making this video. They told me that the device should not be used in a rapid ascent set up, should not be used as a "progress capture" or "positioning device" and that you should not tie a prussic or autoblock below the device. Petzl also told me that the Gri Gri should not be used in a rapid ascent set-up. Whether something "can" be used safely is different than what is recommended by the manufacturer.

[@outdoors-fun]

From what i understand, the MadRock Safeguard doesnt slip like that due to the spring mechanism that causes that slip being removed.

[@SaddleHunter]

You are correct. The safeguard will lock up even when not under tension. However, according to Madrock, even that device is intended to be used with your brake hand on the rope at all times.

[@outdoors-fun]

@@SaddleHunter Thats correct, but so are prusik knots. Thats why stopper knots are so important.

[@NatureRN2586]

Spencer What ropes are you using in this video.

[@kevinnielsen4321]

More good safety info , personally I use a grigri +, and I do back it up with a prussic like you did , the only other thing I do that so many saddle hunters don't do is keep my lineman's rope attached it doesn't get in my way and it's always used my the tree industry which is how saddle hunting got started .🤔🤔🤔

[@SaddleHunter]

Good tip! It always an option to hunt from a separate tether when climbing SRT as well.

[@huntyoutube3704]

Very important and helpful

[@SaddleHunter]

Glad you think so! Thanks for watching.

[@luisreyes4800]

can i use only for rappel

[@benjaminbunny99]

This or the Mammut Smart 2.0?

[@xarrow81]

Thanks for all your videos, I have a very cool product to review (Black Diamond Rocklock Magnetron Carabiner)

[@SaddleHunter]

I had to look it up, those do look cool. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[@xarrow81]

@@SaddleHunter hurry up and review it so they sell out over night! 🤣

[@joeb8162]

The gridlock might have some advantages as well.

[@flounderwetspot8524]

Could you descend with the birdie and a prussic above it to control rope flow out ?

[@mikethadeeter]

This guy is the “inside out precision” of the climbing world. Haha.

[@SaddleHunter]

Haha thanks.

[@michaelhamburg9804]

Well made! Thanks! Would a tree tether for the primary attachment when up be a good solution?

[@SaddleHunter]

Yes, definitely

[@joeb8162]

Great info. But couldn't help noticing the side loaded carabiner.

[@SaddleHunter]

The one on the hand ascender used for leverage?

[@joeb8162]

@@SaddleHunter Yes. I see now it's a back up like you said.

[@SaddleHunter]

Yeah it’s just for a little assistance pulling the rope. It doesn’t support weight.

[@toddduffell8477]

I have the beal birdie and I was having issues when I rappeled it would go smooth it was really jumpy

[@SaddleHunter]

In my experience the slower you go the smoother it goes.

[@carypeaden4147]

What about the Madrock Safeguard? Does it have the same problems you point out with respect to the Birdie or does the safeguard have some advantages over the Birdie? A lot of people using the one-stick method to climb are using the Safeguard to rappel down at the end of their hunt.

[@SaddleHunter]

The Madrock is not a spring loaded device and will keep tension on the rope even without significant load. So it will not slip like the Birdie. Madrock approves the device for rappelling. I reached out to them about it when I bought one. It’s probably not ideal for one stick climbing though because of the inherent slack in the system.

[@carypeaden4147]

@@SaddleHunter As far as slack in the system, isn't that something all of the devices including the Ropeman 1 and even the Prussic knots have, or do they somehow not have inherent slack? I have used prussic knot on lineman ropes and tethers before, but have not yet had the chance to use any device. I do have my first device, a Madrock Safeguard, ordered and it should be here before the end of the month. I guess I am just curious and trying to understand the differences in devices (like Safeguards, Birdies and Grigris) while I wait.

[@SaddleHunter]

Yes there will be slack in the rope regardless of your preferred connection method. However, in the case of a fall with slack it is far more likely for a mechanical device to fail than some type of friction hitch. The safeguard is designed to be used under constant load with dynamic rope. They don't even publish a Kn strength rating for the device, probably because it's not intended to ever experience that kind of load.

[@wwg1wga552]

I only use the birdie as a way to get down. I actually hang with a Kong Duck rope clamp. Is it ok to use Beal Birdie that way?

[@SaddleHunter]

Yes, the Birdie is rated as an EN 15151 -1 type 6 belay/rappel device. The Kong however is not intended for that use. I would suggest switching to a CT Roll n lock which can be used for that purpose.

[@benlykins4388]

What’s your thoughts on running an autoblock with the birdie?

[@SaddleHunter]

It’s been a while since I read the manual. I’m not sure off the top of my head.

[@UnfiItered]

The safeguard solve this issue because it's spring less and always has tension so there's no slippage.

[@SaddleHunter]

Yup, for our purposes it's a superior device.

[@vladimirlopez7840]

This device is fine if you use a prussic in conjunction with it.

[@SaddleHunter]

Which is what I said... I contacted Beal about using the device in a rapid ascent system and they said it is not recommended.

[@wolverinekut]

👍💯

[@SaddleHunter]

I appreciate the support.

[@donniehaulk3463]

Tie a stopper knot below it and you can be hands free. The madrock and the grigri aren't meant to be hands free.

[@SaddleHunter]

I don’t believe the Birdie is meant to be used hands free either. The instructions clearly state that a hand must always stay on the brake side of the rope.

[@donniehaulk3463]

@@SaddleHunter that is absolutely correct. The birdie isn't supposed to be hands free. Neither is the grigri or madrock, but if you tie an overhand knot on a bite and clip the loop into the carabiner it can safely be used hands free. The Petzl website shows a similar way to use the grigri hands free.

[@enjoytheoutdoors101]

That's the way I run the gri-gri with a stopper knot or prusik knot underneath. That allows for hands free, plus it takes away the fear of the gri-gri not catching.

[@scottf3553]

That's way too complicated, I mean so many moving parts. I'm considering single sticking it but this video(while erroring on the side of safety) concerns me from a potential user perspective.