USS Illinois & USS Kentucky - Guide 060 (Part 4)

The never-were battleships of the Iowa class are today's subject.

[@HSMiyamoto]

The fact that one BB could supply engines for two support ships illustrates the size of investment that the battlewagons demanded.

[@nancyannegraves2673]

I'm thinking COPY Cover with these two ships. Oooops.....I always say the wrong thing

[@stanstenson8168]

AND they were fast. Listed speed was 30 knots.

[@JS-ce1vd]

I believe that with the Wisconsin getting the new bow it gained a foot over the others in the class. This made her the biggest battleship built by America.

[@jneale5204]

No it didn't. Even if they welded the bow of Kentucky to Wisconsin it wouldn't even pick up a 1/2 inch. Plus they had to keep the top portion of Wisconsin because it wasn't completed on Kentucky.

[@jonmaybriar3825]

In WW II each state that has a battleship named after them was responsible for having the Captains quarters doors designed and carved from wood. The doors were carved from mahogany in a pattern similar to the Commonwealth of KY flag. Since the ship was never built, the doors were used as for other purposed and almost lost into history. They were sent in 1994 to the recently built Kentucky History Museum in Frankfort and now reside on the second floor as the conference room floors. I visited them last year and they are remarkable.

[@bobhealy3519]

My uncle remembers saving Penny's with other schoolkids across Massachusetts to raise the money for the silver service in the ward room on the U.S.S. Massachusetts BB 59

[@Ad_Valorem]

When I was a schoolboy in the '50s, our class made a field trip to the state capitol, Springfield. After visiting the capitol and Lincoln's tomb we visited the governor's mansion. During the tour the guide drew our attention to a glass case containing the silver service originally intended for the Illinois. So something has survived of the battleship.

[@justat1149]

Dane Kosaka The University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign has the ship’s bell at the football field. They ring it every time the team gets a touchdown (I live in Illinois, so the scrapping of this ship really makes me sad)

[@MrHSwager]

Wow that picture of the guided missile Kentucky is so awesome!

[@caseylimbert266]

I served on the USS Camden, (AOE-2) and those fast combat support ships were definitely fast; we had her up to 35 knots or more with those boilers (coupled to some really nice turbines)... and we could outrun almost anything the fleet had at the time... and the gas coming out of the smoke stack was always clear... and she made 100,000 shaft horsepower, swinging 22' wheels...

[@lorenzobeckmann3736]

Knowing motors and grns, I started at a company where my co-worker taught me many marine applications; he was gen/distribution electrician on Camden during Viet Nam conflict. He sais, "your in a floting bomb".

[@lawrencelewis2592]

My old tub, the USS Guam LPH-9 was hard pressed to make 18 knots. I couldn't imagine going that fast over water in a ship that size.

[@bigblue6917]

We had the same problem with the Vanguard. Keel laid in 1941 but not completed until 1946. All dressed up and no where to go.

[@michaelfiller3452]

Part of the Illinois went to a research lab at the University of Illinois - Urbana. When I attended in the mid-70s I worked part time as an electronics technician at the Superconducting Linear Accelerator Lab. Much of the shielding was large plates of steel from the Illinois. IIRC, these were about 6-8" thick, 4-8' wide, and roughly 20' tall. We had lifting eyes welded on the ends to move them as needed. Don't drop one on your toe! Steel toed boots were mandatory, like that would make a difference, LOL.

[@DavidJones-dy2ul]

Thanks for remembering these two ships and Neptune the Hog🐖that helped raise nineteen million 💰 for 🇺🇸 construction of the Illinois. Keep up the good work!Sincerely, David 😷 in Chicago

[@adamdubin1276]

Apologies, my brain nearly exploded when you said that a pig was auctioned for 19 million dollars?!? That must have been some pig!

[@lawrencelewis8105]

that's what Charlotte the spider said!

[@spikespa5208]

"That'll do, pig."

[@Ark_3311]

That must have been some good pork

[@Deevo037]

Mmm, bacon.

[@benharris4709]

Must have used pig iron

[@bullettube9863]

Those four replenishment ships each received two engine sets from the incomplete battleships, giving them a top speed of over twenty knots. This made them fast enough to cruise with the fleet, and make fast turn-arounds possible. Note the last photo; they literally cleaned out the dock and piled it on top of the deck! Today the USS Wisconsin, with it's repaired bow, is also a memorial to the USS Kentucky! AND.....The Missouri running aground is a fascinating story!

[@Jason-er1vf]

A little fun fact about the USS Illinois: the ships bell is currently at Memorial Stadium at the University of Illinois and would be rang by the NROTC members when the team scores.

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

And thus, is the only mention of a supply ship so far, and I can understand. Refueling and resupplying the carrier and fleet isn't all 'that' entertaining, and not as enjoyable for the public to watch for the most part. it lacks the boom boom boom and pew pew pew that warships do, lol. Thanks for mentioning the AOE2, I never expect to even hear the ship named or see so much as a photo due to the above reason. That was so long ago, and another life for me. I think the operating cost of 4 battleship boilers and age of the hull where the 'Only' reasons for scrapping the AOE1 and AOE2, as we could keep up with the carrier and some newer ships couldn't (back then). Nothing like seeing a "Little" 720-foot long ship (220 meters, ish) bebopping across the water like a speed boat, lol. (We got fuel and bombs for your aircraft and ice cream for the crew, we need to get the ice cream to you before it melts. JK) Good stuff Drachinifel. B)

[@SephirothRyu]

The Kamchatka says hello. It also wants to know if you have seen torpedo boats.

[@stanstenson8168]

Camden was a good ship. She always kept Connie supplied.

[@athopi]

The Montanas would really have been something to see!

[@mpetersen6]

One part of the Illinois still survives. The ships china is in the governor's mansion in Springfield. The ex governor's mansion is the state prison in Joliet.

[@randyfleet9968]

Are you saying Illinois puts it's ex-Governors in prison? I rather like that idea!

[@rustyreese4006]

@@randyfleet9968 should be standard practice for all retired, or defeated career politicians.

[@bobhealy3519]

Uncle I take care of 85 yrs old was XO on the Oklahoma City missile cruiser. He always said their were "SPECIAL " missiles on board. CLG 5

[@follker]

I served aboard USS Camden (aoe2) from 1990-1995, Machinist Mate 3rd in MM01 Division running the Kentucky's 600 PSI engines. We could do 30.5 knots full out.

[@TheNinjaDC]

I was sad when I first learned the Kentucky was scrapped, but hearing the BBG-1 plans, makes it so much more painful. The new Kentucky BBG-1 would have been decades ahead of its time, for better or worse (likely worse). Honestly, that is what a new Battleship should be. Not a railgun focused ship, but a large warship with hundreds of defensive and offensive focused missiles. Whose presence scares the sh*t out of air forces more than several S-400 squadrons.

[@robotbjorn4952]

Hell of an expensive way to launch missiles though.

[@adamperry9755]

Thats one giant target though... One lucky hit by a torpedo or missile (or even non-combat related damage) and you've lost your "Bigger Stick Than The Other Guy" to the dry-dock for a while

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

bad idea.

[@thetankgeneral5775]

As someone from Illinois, this pains me to know that the USS Illinois was scrapped while being built

[@thomaszinser8714]

In fairness, we at least did have a previous battleship, BB-7. Montana didn't even get that.

[@elliottsaucedo442]

So I’m not the only one

[@davidharner5865]

From Ohio, live in Virginia, no Dreadnought for either. USS Western Virginia dies not count. Both are classes of submarines, though.

[@andrewtaylor940]

I believe the 16” guns for one of these ships were completed and sat as fixtures in a park on the navy property for decades until Reagan re-activated the Iowa’s in the 80’s. New Jersey’s guns were the most heavily fired over the years, seeing heavy use in Korea and Vietnam, and needed to be replaced. So New Jersey got Kentucky’s (?) guns. New Jersey’s original guns now sit mounted in a restored coastal battery display that is in a New Jersey Park that overlooks the museum ship herself.

[@bullreeves1109]

I live in Kentucky so it makes me really sad that they canceled Her.... Like cmon! Her hull was completed! It would have been so cool to see BBG-1

[@Packless1]

...at least Kentucky wasn't wasted. As mentioned the bow and the motors were recycled...

[@mikesavage6420]

Bow was used to repair Wisconsin

[@JackHawk-re5vo]

If it makes you feel any better a ballistic missile submarine is called the uss kentucky and back during ww1 a battleship also was called USS Kentucky unfortunately the first USS Kentucky saw no real action but hey no complaints from here.

[@adamdubin1276]

Congress: How many missiles does the ship need? Navy: All of them!

[@RoyalFizzbin]

Does it make you feel any better that -name aside- she really had no connection to the state of Kentucky? She was being built in Norfolk, VA.

[@donpacificbobcat9er615]

As a Virginian I can’t wait until you cover USS Wisconsin.

[@Slayer_Jesse]

the all missile battleship might not have been cost effective, but it certainly sounds hilarious.

[@K9TheFirst1]

I like to think her existence might have made a difference in the Home Front perception of the Tet Offensive.

[@lt.x-02s-wyvern25]

Isn't an all missile Iowa bassically a Kirov Class Battlecruiser

[@scottgriggs2596]

Sounds like a gigantic target.

[@robertf3479]

@@lt.x-02s-wyvern25 Same basic idea, just 30 years earlier give or take.

[@patrickmcleod111]

**Damn, they could've used the hulls to make really big destroyers, or really, REALLY big P.T. boats! Lol**

[@robotbjorn4952]

Lol good luck dodging a spread of 250 torpedos from that thing.

[@alanfhall6450]

I see torpedo boats. Really BIG torpedo boats!

[@overboss9599]

@@alanfhall6450 at that point, the Russian navy promptly attached wheels to their entire fleet and rolled them into the middle of Siberia.

[@alanfhall6450]

@@overboss9599 It being the Russian Navy, the wheels promptly fell off ...

[@carlmulalley4873]

I served on the recommissioning crew Of USS New Jersey BB-62 in 1982. I hoped that you would have spent more time on the Big J since she was the first to come back and time off Beirut Lebanon bombarding Syrian missile batteries.

[@Drachinifel]

Carl Mulalley she's on the list to get a special video

[@paulwoodman5131]

Those big BB's are impressive. Saw the New Jersey parked in Norfolk across from the Eisenhower, nearly as large as the Ike but no flight deck, all guns and missiles. Wow!

[@neglesaks]

1 pig = 1 Battleship? Remind me to appreciate bacon waaay more than I do now.

[@michaelpfister1283]

OK, the Polaris/Talos/Tartar armed USS Kentucky sounds ... apocalyptic... Yet somehow I wish it had been done. Imagine that ship, upgraded, the Polaris tubes upgraded to quad Tomahawks and the other launchers upgraded to SM-6... *shudder* BBG-1 indeedy deed!

[@johnivkovich8655]

A nice deep dive. I wonder if more talos systems in the fleet would have caused RnD to keep pace extending the system in the same manner as the terrier and tarter systems. A freight car sized projectile with ram-jet speed is terrifying to contemplate. (Even today when close in missile defense systems have a hard time dealing with mach speed targets.)

[@gottjager760]

The second conversion proposal (with the RIM-8 Talos and RIM-24 Tartar launchers) is very interesting. If it had been given helicopters or some form of anti-ship missile instead of the Polaris missiles it would have been truly a remarkable ship.

[@bz3020]

Illinois ships bell is used by university of Illinois nrotc at football games being rung after touchdowns

[@happyhighway106]

#53 These were beautiful vessels, but too costly. It must be measured the cost effectiveness to the possible ship loss in military action. As much as I like the Battleship, I know that its time to morph into a new kind of combat vessel, less expensive. Perhaps the Zumwalt class of Destroyer is that vessel, for future Naval Actions.

[@BornRandy62]

the terrible T's Talos Terrier and Tartar. Talos had a nuclear warhead capability. like the ASROC system only one nuke was every utilized for proof of concept. Terrier eventually became the SM2 and upward SM6 is the most capable current missile using the same airframe. Tartar became the SM1 . The excess inventory of Tarter and Terrier is being used by NASA at sites including Wallops island VA the Goddard Space flight test facility. The engineering test and development AEGIS radar facility is located there complete with a missile launcher on the ocean side. NASA uses the equipment to launch the missiles for high altitude instrumentation tests and experiments and the Navy uses the site for AEGIS radar and systems school

[@101gaminglegion7]

Not sure if you already have but if you havent the Australian leanders all had interesting stories perth and sydneh in particular

[@Drachinifel]

I believe Perth is on the list :)

[@tedbaxter5234]

Thank you for a bit of fast paced concise history!

[@Doc_Tar]

Credit to navy planners for finding uses for these unfinished ships and for not throwing more money into them for completing unneeded vessels.

[@alphakky]

Far FAR better than the Battleship New Jersey page.

[@smc1942]

Kentucky was 80% complete....they SHOULD have finished ALL ships that far along. Illinois, at 20% complete...yes, scrap her on the slips.

[@nomore9203]

BB-34 USS New York and BB-35 USS Texas.

[@deonmurphy6383]

Consider doing one on the frigate HMS Warrior / HMS Black Prince.

[@deonmurphy6383]

Ah my bad, they are outside of the ships you are covering. (~WWI and WWII.)

[@pauld6967]

Drach, I don't know why you say "believe it or not" because just before you revealed the Polaris plan I was thinking to myself "I would think they would propose putting I.C.B.M.s in the after hull." Perhaps that was simply because I fondly remember the proposal to build "arsenal ships."

[@Cthippo1]

The first Kirov was laid down in 1973, so 50 years is a bit of an overstatement

[@davids9520]

The pig was very disappointed about the Illinois!

[@brownwrench]

"Only 50 years earlier" LOL

[@lesmauldin3857]

Can you explore the US USS New York class battleships please

[@versal339]

Outstanding as always. How is the G3 class battlecrusier video coming along? Thanks again.

[@Drachinifel]

Hugh Batesel G3 is about a month away :)

[@Scoobydcs]

could you redo the older vids with commentary? specifically the warspite video, iv never found another warspite video and iv no idea why it hasnt been done!

[@Drachinifel]

eatthisvr6 I could redo some of them on request.

[@ericcriteser4001]

Fascinating. Thank you.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

Yes that would have been a heck of a lot of missiles!

[@johncook3125]

Fascinating video. Thanks.

[@T3hderk87]

Obviously, with all those missles they did not get the memo on battleships blowing up due to magazine detonations....

[@skywise001]

Surprisingly active lives for never built ships :D

[@alanmcclenaghan7548]

Is it just me, or does it look like a giant King Neptune (or a piggy cousin) is peeking over the first bulkhead about a third of the way down the middle of the image at about 02:11 near what would be the starboard side of the ship near the middle?

[@lars1701again]

Can you up the volume of your videos? thanks

[@robertjohnson8938]

Glad it wasn’t wasted

[@Packless1]

1:20 ...didn't work well with Shinano (Yamato-class-carrier-transformation)

[@WalterReimer]

Imagine an outside observer if it fired all its missiles off at the same time. "My God, it exploded!"

[@stevenpilling3773]

Those two battlewagons would have proven useful during the Gulf Wars.

[@mcdura]

Bathurst-class corvette Please

[@LV_CRAZY]

You do know the original plans had Polaris silos amidship of the USS Long Beach.

[@SmilingIbis]

Any idea how much these protracted design changes and alterations ended up costing for ships that were never completed?

[@finscreenname]

So they left one half built in a dry dock for 15 years?

[@alanclemons4348]

Im from Illinois so its sad we only had one battleship with this name

[@jonmaybriar3825]

I meant doors. Not floors.

[@King.of.Battleships]

Why did the Navy order 2 more Iowas if they were just going to cancel them. It was such a waste of Money and Resources.

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

What could've been... 😢

[@n00btub3r2012]

Forget about the Space Force, BBG-1 need to be revived!

[@alphakky]

Why? They already launch Tomahawks off of subs and frigates, why make a expensive battleship to do the same thing?

[@danger4228]

i used to call Missouri Mississouri

[@poky1958]

They should have been completed as Battleships!!!!

[@Jon.A.Scholt]

I wish they made that giant floating missile base.

[@MoultrieGeek]

Love these videos but why are there question marks or thinking emojis all through it? Copyright issues?

[@williestyle35]

Not so much. Lack of any photos and diagrams is the main reason. 😊

[@alan6832]

Hard to understand why these hulls would not make better carriers than liberty ship hulls.

[@fritz7535]

Battleship names after my state...wow

[@kennethdeanmiller7324]

SO BASICALLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THESE TWO SHIPS WERE NEVER REALLY COMPLETED. SO, ALTHOUGH THEY MAY HAVE EXISTED IN NAME, THEY WERE NEVER LAUNCHED OR COMMISSIONED OR CREWED.

[@akosgergely6447]

Don't really want to argue or nitpcik as I appreciate the effort and work but there are a lot of half-truth or misunderstandings in especially the first two minutes part. Please take these as positive critique: 1.\ The Vinson Trammel act or better known as the 'The Two-Ocean Navy' act of April (May?) 1940 bought 385.000 tons of battleship and this was distributed as two BB-61 type repeats and 5 new designs. But the keels or material for BB-65 and 66 was NOT delivered or made before that date nor were they laid down so technically they were not re-ordered. Also it has nothing to do with building times or familiarity with the designs (btw Norfolk Navy Yard did not even build Iowa class ships previously). The delay was due to no available slipways for keel laying, and the BB-65 was laid down only in 1945! (IMHO the 1942 Sept date is an error)) and even BB-66 had to be relaid later during the war to make room for other ships. A Montana class ship would have taken probably 10% more time to build compared to a vanilla BB-61, not more, as they would have been fully welded construction, greatly accelerating their assembly (one can already witness this by the second pair of Iowas where more welding was used they were put together much faster compared to the first pair). So using wikipedia as the primary source is dangerous as it is full of mistakes. 2.\ You cite that the BB-65 was laid down on the 7th Sept (which is not correct either IMHO) and that soon AFTER the CV conversion was contemplated - for this you cite the official BuShips/C&R drawing, clearly stating June 1942 date....(which is correct btw as logically this was looked at after the Battle of Midway, in fact on the day of the battle.... but had nothing to do with BB-65/66)

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

If you look at the long time it takes to construct a ship like that - that is why I believe they are making a horrible mistake in scrapping those old super carriers. If we ever get in a serious war with Russia or China - we could lose carriers and they are not easy to replace. During the Cold War we had a somewhat sensible attitude towards our military - but since then - it's beginning to look more like the previous pre-war periods when the US didn't give a shit about anything but saving money and then it's service personnel paid in blood for it when a war did come. .

[@brownwrench]

Good at least something was made of it

[@kuehnel16]

Where are the first three parts

[@rebelbaron7003]

IMO....the defensive technology against missiles could render them obsolete using lasers. They are not faster than the speed of light. As an ace in the sleeve,I believe the Iowas should be well maintained and their guns and shells ever ready for the above reason. If any ship in the Navy can survive a missile attack,the Iowas can. Honestly.....think about it.....in May of 1941,its true that a $300 (if that) torpedo crippled the Bismarck dooming it and its crew. The Navy is building these huge 100,000ton Ford supercarriers yer nothing has changed as a torpedo in the props and/or rudders renders them the same. Not much has changed since 1941 but why not build more Pennsylvania class ballistic submarines? Isnt that money better spent? Supercarriers are more obsolete than the Iowas.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Try, $10k for a torpedo.

[@legogenius1667]

Almost everything in that comment was wrong

[@westcoaststacker569]

Some are nitpicking the cost of the Torpedo but regardless it is what doomed a very expensive naval asset. As many inexpensive Japanese planes did in the Pacific. One pilots life for a carrier etc... I also feel that in a future peer to peer war surface fleets are obsolete, until then though the super carriers parade Americas power loudly while the silent fleet is its true power.

[@westcoaststacker569]

I agree $300 too low for even 1940s, $7,500 sounds more reasonable. I feel that, the Bismarck (196.8M Reichsmark or ~$80M) was basically crippled by the stuck rudder ($7,500 Torpedo) leading to her eventual scuttling. Totally agree on uses of the fleets. The Super Carriers are a projection of power and have a vital role in wars. Multiple smaller carriers would have greater survivabilitty, I would presume that the super carriers are closely tracked by all the Countries that matter. Seems most American ships can't handle a bump with a fishing boat now days.

[@Predator42ID]

@@westcoaststacker569 I find your lack of faith disturbing, first the US already has small carriers, they're called amphibious assault ships. Next and this is a big one the US carrier force has always been centered around the ability to carry up to 90+ planes. Third don't fool yourselves US carriers are surrounded by a task group and even then the ships themselves can take a great deal of damage if their ancestors are anything to go by. As noted by recent events the second ship in the Ford class will be done in the same or shorter amount of time compared to china's smaller ships which use ramps limiting what they can launch.

[@Sennmut]

Kearsarge?

[@brownwrench]

The end of the war known in 1940?

[@sadwingsraging3044]

OK Drach,,, that wasn't nice man! You should have done a conjectural number, placement, and caliber of the anti aircraft conversion design. Just how many 90mm, quad 40mm, poms, 20mm, 50cal, guns do you think they could have safely loaded onto this hull? And since it is us Americans we are talking about you can screw the safety margin thinking.

[@Ornstein2]

Italian Super Drednough UP41

[@nathanguiboche3176]

i love your videos and watch them over and over but all I suggest for improvement is for you to watch one of those questions marks or thinking emogies for one minutes straight and then you will know how much it sucks for us to watch over and over..... you start hating them after a short while..... ty....

[@nancyannegraves2673]

I read a local newspaper story (Humboldt County, State of Confusion...Ooops California), that the USS ILLINIOS, was temporarily docking in Manila, on her way to San Diego, and that she was a Historical Museum to be put on display at her destination. I'm not sure exactly, but I believe that was the year of 2017. I experienced something on the Manila islands just before I saw the article in the paper, that was a mystery to me. The newspaper article showed a photograph of her and helped me to understand what strange thing that happened to me and why. So if she is not this historical museum, I still have an unsolved and peculiar mystery. I think something is being covered up! I will explain the details which give glory to The Most High, my God and my Savior Jesus Christ, if anybody is interested

[@CorePathway]

Every battleship should be named “Big Dick”. Stick! I mean stick, like speak softly and carry…

[@Muddybagclean]

Jesus Loves You

[@jcwoodman5285]

Bad audio volume... to low! Otherwise great content!

[@danger4228]

Kentucky fried chicken

[@Gunbuster277]

So sad

[@_lumiaart_2010]

Looks like the English where smarter than our goverment. They finished thier last BB as a BB