"Selfish AF!" - Heated Debate on When to Marry and Start a Family

A heated debate has emerged over the appropriate age for getting married and starting a family.
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Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

[@TheSpokenWizard]

Adam is 43 acting like he's 25. Bro pushing 50 saying he wants to have kids one day. 😂

[@hopolang99]

Ouch I feel attacked by this statement 😅

[@burneychoo]

I just had my first child 2 weeks ago and I am 50. 😅

[@AutumnBrenna]

@@hopolang99you should too many men acting like this out here soo distasteful

[@hopolang99]

@@burneychoo nice one and congratulations man🙏🏾

[@reedpeterson719]

58 yr old male with twin 7 year olds, and living the good life

[@MindfulAttraction2.0]

If you're unhappy single, you'll be unhappy married

[@OrangeJuicePapi]

This is an absolute fact.

[@Rensune]

The problem is, some people Need marriage to be happy. Not want it NEED it.

[@swetsTV]

@@Rensunethat is absurd.

[@Rensune]

@@swetsTV Unpleasant perhaps. Silly even. But absurd? I've met too many people that are empty (while single) to call it that. It's a rare person that can be truly happy, while single.

[@Lord_technofascist_nepobaby]

lol meanwhile Pat says other childless people are selfish when the majority of young people can barely afford to live; cant even afford to buy a house, and he's basically saying "it's selfish to choose not to have a kid, when you can't even afford an emergency and renting on a dual income" as opposed to basic financial literacy smart adults thought the young-ins.

[@WildBeardTrucking]

I’m 34 and I have a 3 year old boy. Because of him I work 10x harder.

[@abprepboy33]

Is this a reason to have kids or not have kids? 😂

[@WildBeardTrucking]

@@abprepboy33 🤣😂 lol good observation. I think it motivates me to work harder in various aspects…in my career, in my personal growth, and in preparation for the future. So yes, it is supposed to be good.

[@JuancoPRoFlow]

Fuck that, 😅

[@triggerticker]

​@@abprepboy33as a 31 year old father, I assume what he is trying to say, is that because of them, we want to be even better and as a result, assuming you are responsible and caring, you just start working harder. At least this is true in my case.

[@bruceprofitsTradesFutures]

Same finally became a profitable trader after my son was born.😊

[@hectoralicea7719]

In the Latino community, you settle down and start a family after you accidentally get your girlfriend pregnant.

[@michellediaz2218]

😂 so true for most of us! It's shocking when one of us gets married & isn't pregnant. People ask "what!? They're getting married!? Is she pregnant?"

[@Firenexxus]

Bad thing to normalize

[@justinfernandez9876]

@@Firenexxusthen what u want them to do kill a baby? That’s honorable if you ask me a real man

[@BIGdaddy-vs7og]

@@Firenexxusonly bad to those who don’t appreciate family values

[@Firenexxus]

@@BIGdaddy-vs7og I understand stepping up to the plate for your kid but you shouldn’t normalize accidentally getting your gf knocked up

[@thisizcle140]

All these dudes sittin up here makin atleast 100k a year tryna tell me have a kid makin 20/hr gtfoh

[@bruceprofitsTradesFutures]

lol 😂 they making at least 1M-100M a year.

[@julioponce799]

Get a better paying job then. Why tf are you still working a job that pays 20/hour?

[@raskult]

They worth hundreds of millions combined over 300 mil lol

[@blaketrent8548]

@@julioponce799 It's hard to get out of that. I work in social work, and any education is going to cost money most people don't have. The "get a better job" argument is a completely out of touch argument in regards to the average low wage worker living paycheck to paycheck. Go to five fast food places back to back and you'll see at least 2 people working there over the age of 30 at every single one.

[@josedominguez-mm3kd]

You gotta start somewhere, that’s not the end , when I was 20 I was making 20/hr now at 25 I make 75/hr , don’t put limits on yourself , move up homie. ( P.S I didn’t graduate high school)😂

[@neighborhood11206]

Tom got it. Cant just flip a switch. Its programming. The person who is selfish nd has kids will leave them or not put that energy into his family. N put them last. Your kids will hate you.

[@gitoffmahlawn]

It's very hard to change your ways when you've reinforced behaviors and attitudes for decades! We get less flexible as we age.

[@notme1255]

​@@mayc8674what evidence do you have that he was a selfish ladies man until the moment he put a ring on her finger? None. STFU already.

[@WTFBUTWHY]

You can. I did 🤷‍♂️ I was a selfish “bad boy”. Found the right girl, got married had kids… and now, I couldn’t be more selfless. My wife doesn’t even work

[@bhaines2209]

Tom is a boomer. He has no idea wtf he’s talking about 🤣 It’s like someone from the Roman times giving advice

[@LeadingPaws]

He’s not wrong, but he misunderstood Adam’s contextual point. He’s using selfish to mean self improvement. He’s saying you should focus on improving yourself with all your best until you find a wife and have kids and can then instill what you’ve learned in them.

[@puddleofthoughts2822]

This is why you only listen to people who are successful in areas you aspire towards in life.

[@notme1255]

​@@mayc8674Yes.. When you wait for the right one and get married at 40 like Tom, Most people can't just snap their fingers and get pregnant at that age vs in their 20's. It's not like that was their choice to wait so long.

[@ElleJae-b9q]

Agree

[@TheRexTera]

An interesting fact to note is that statistically the average age where people start businesses is 42 years old. That means most people who starts businesses priorities family first. And when their children are old enough to demand less attention they have surplus attention span and experience and maturity to take way more calculated risks. They’re more financially secure as well. I think the ideal created by the internet that you’re supposed to start businesses in your 20s is a bad idea. It leads to a lot of people grinding away their ability to kick back and relax enough to start families.

[@xanaduse]

@@mayc8674Adam is putting up a front. He may be content, but doesn’t come off happy.

[@MayorOfBodybuildingTV]

@@mayc8674Si many Americans are obnoxious

[@kylekotecha9931]

I’m 37 with three girls. I didn’t have it figured out, but it forced me to do so. Had my first at 26 right out of the army. All same woman. Still with her. I gave up some things, but what I gained is much more and it is our responsibility

[@notme1255]

Good for you. You're miles ahead of men like Adam.

[@Freeeeeeeee27]

Happy for you!

[@Infam0usKiller]

@@notme1255All you do is hate on somebody you don’t even know

[@notme1255]

@@Infam0usKiller So now complimenting one man is considered "hating on" another man? LOL. You're funny

[@Infam0usKiller]

@@notme1255 Are you kidding? I was talking about you hating on Adam.

[@big_dreko6159]

It’s a different day now. You could raise a family on 50k a couple generations ago. But modern day, 50k is poverty if you are raising a family. Bringing kids into poverty is not the solution. PBD I think you might be too far removed from reality for most people. There’s a reason people are not having kids like they use to. And 90% of it is financial

[@xandercrew6088]

Bingoooo 👏👏👏

[@sdmfp333]

You can in the Midwest

[@big_dreko6159]

@@sdmfp333 nope. I live in the mid west, (Indianapolis) and I still would never start a family right now. I make around 53k a year and after bills I barely have enough for myself. Cost of living has gone up tremendously. Rent for a nice 1 bed room apartment use to be $650 now it’s around $1050. I couldn’t imagine having 2 or 3 mouths to feed, on top of that investing in their future. 70k minimum in the Midwest. Emphasis on minimum, you really need 6 figures a year in my opinion if you really want to LIVE. And not just survive check to check

[@Boozeblues]

97%

[@doctorx1924]

Agreed my father raised me and my two other siblings on a 50K salary for most of the 90's. We had a regular middle class house that was 1800 sq ft and we had 2 cars. My dad salary took a huge increase when I hit my teenage years and jumped to six figures, and we moved to even a bigger house and were able to live even more comfortably.

[@Newstyle87]

People say it’s selfish to not want kids but their reasons for having kids are completely selfish. They say “I” want someone to take care of me when I’m old. “I” want to feel purpose. “I” want happiness. See the pattern? You have can all those things without having kids. And when you’re 80 how often do most people see their kids?

[@21stcenturycynicalguyviews82]

I feel it's human nature for most people to project the best outcome and ignore all the negatives. That's the issue with people like PBD he believes in his heart that his kids will never abandon him when he's 80 and won't put him in a nursing home. That type of mindset of assuming the best outcome will always happen is dangerous and it gets a lot of people in trouble especially these pro marriage and family types.

[@jones2277]

I don’t think it’s selfish because you pour into your children for those aspirations to be realized

[@Caesar__99]

I firmly believe you shouldn’t force or try to convince someone to have kids who doesn’t want to have them. But if you ask someone what their reason is, their reason will include “I” because you asked them why they wanted it lol

[@annalynvang5516]

People convince people all the time not to have kids. That’s why our society thinks “kids” are such a unnecessary burden: what if they don’t love you, what if they leave in a nursing home, what if (insert all the bad things kids can do/be) etc. That’s a list to convince others not to have kids. And it also comes down to fear of your commitment to being a parent.

[@Newstyle87]

@@annalynvang5516 It goes both ways. Society also pressures and tells you have kids. “Who’s going to take care of you when you’re old, levee a legacy, have a purpose” etc. It should be fine whatever decision you make. I genuinely think some people need kids. Like they would be suicidal if they didn’t because they need something to live for. Some people need kids kids because they lack purpose and meaning. Some are perfectly fine without kids. You each their own

[@thomasmagaha280]

Without seeing it with my own eyes, you can’t convince me that Adam and Tom/Vinny are friends outside the pod 😂😂😂

[@angelicaangel2624]

Of course they're friends. They probably have a great laugh together checking their growing bank balances after each pod. The play fighting is exactly what PBD orders them to do.

[@Not_Guilty_5th_Plead]

​@@angelicaangel2624what an ignorant statement. Such a stupid assumption.

[@DominicanOps]

I have always thought they don't like the other

[@Marsha_Ann]

Why is he there tho? They all look like they're always annoyed with him every show, Pat especially. It's awkward to watch.

[@angelicaangel2624]

@@Marsha_Ann pbd has said many times that he likes a good debate and plenty of contrast on the show, Adam provides that. The mix of personalities is what makes it all work imo.

[@pcasseus]

I understand what Adam is trying to say, but it wasn't expressed clearly. In my view, the pandemic revealed how many parents are not truly engaged with their children. Many people seemed lost when the usual support systems were disrupted. They start families and have children without a real sense of purpose for them. Many parents don't even guide their children to be ambitious or to grow into decent human beings and citizens.

[@MuKvnx]

I thought by saying selfish he meant "driven" but then his argument has lost all sense especially when he excluded women.

[@Mr_Don1]

Adam's message sounds like it makes sense for a high school kid. It makes no sense for an adult at all.

[@pcasseus]

@@Mr_Don1 Actually, his argument made sense if you paid attention. He called Tom out for his hypocrisy, emphasizing the importance of establishing oneself before committing to starting a family. The issue is timing: when is the right time to start a family? While Tom was trying to appear righteous, Adam rightly pointed out that Tom didn't have kids until he was a bit older than Adam is now.

[@Mr_Don1]

@@pcasseus it only made sense for a selfish person. The right time to start a family is as soon as possible. You build with your spouse over time. Waiting until you have the money means never for the overwhelming majority of people. I just don't agree with the assertion that wealthy people are the only people who should have families only after they are already wealthy. You can call Tom out all you want. Even if he's a hypocrite, he's also still correct. He might do it sooner himself if he could do it over again. He clearly seems to have some sense of regret, in my opinion. That's what it comes off as...not hypocrisy. I think that's why Tom lashed out. I believe that he wishes he had began sooner. I don't know that for sure, but that's what I sense.

[@pcasseus]

​@@Mr_Don1You don't have to be selfish to be open-minded to someone else's point of view. Just as I can understand some socialist ideas without being a socialist. Its a matter of being open-minded and a critical thinker. I agree that starting a family young is ideal, but not everyone follows the same path. Some people take longer to reach their destination. We all dont walk the same path. The important thing is that they get there.

[@ابراهيم_محمد_الازهر]

No dude its not we are more selfish…. Living has become completely UNAFFORDABLE!!!!!

[@Ap_twsh]

And have you seen the amount of people on the roads. Imagine adding more people on the roads.

[@johnmartin4641]

@@Ap_twsh that’s because the people involved in road construction are morons who don’t build enough lanes and don’t plan properly.

[@kz3973]

@@Ap_twshbirth rates are declining. Society grinds to a halt if that continues. Traffic should be the least concern.

[@gitoffmahlawn]

​@@Ap_twshLess people on the road, less people to change your diaper when you get old and sick. Since you won't have family to help out

[@ابراهيم_محمد_الازهر]

@@Ap_twsh you’re talking about over saturated libtard cities. There IS a population decline that is alarming. MOST COUNTRIES are below replacement level. Think about that. Thats bad dude.

[@s1dubbzz751]

Not everyone is meant to have children, not everyone is meant to be married. If the people that are not meant for it don't engage in it, we would have a much better society in my humble opinion. If someone doesn't want to be married, they should be thanked for their honesty and we should give a sigh of relief as that is one less messed up marriage ,and possibly, children in this world. If Adam wants to live a single life, why is it anyone else's business. Do you want him to marry YOUR sister? Give it a rest ya'll.

[@ree4214]

But that’s the problem. He wants to be married with kids “someday”

[@blessedandrich]

Agreed!

[@TheNomadicAceG]

@@ree4214whats the issue?

[@DanYellowZena]

💯💯

[@ree4214]

@@TheNomadicAceG Those that think they can be selfish/single and will automatically become unselfish/married are delusional. Those are the ones that get divorced because all of a sudden, they’re unhappy.

[@billytron75]

Not all people are created to be parents, so stop pushing it!

[@tanpham7411]

Who else gonna be renting their rental properties and buying their products? They need people to produce kids to spend on what they are selling.

[@AngryBystander]

Naw have kids they are miracles. Yah some losers

[@dariusdreams8480]

Ye that’s the exception not the rule. Thats the problem with western society, preaching exceptions left & right

[@82gioccia]

Not all people were raised to be parents. If your parents did their due diligence, you’re fit enough.

[@TirianOfNarnia]

​@user-vo6kj6cl6w Yeah because we should totally pressure narcissistic people into having kids (not saying they all are, but some of em are). Then the kids get to be raised by shitty parents who literally don't give a fuck about them! Isn't that beautiful?! Have you ever been to this place called Planet Earth?

[@willsmith4575]

I think pat misunderstands why the average 18-28 year old isn’t having kids. Systematic incentivizing women taking men to court for divorce and child support, the cost of living is through the roof, many young adults are having to stay with their parents for extended period of time. How can you support a family under these circumstances? I know so many young guys such has myself who don’t even have time for a relationship let alone a family because we are working so much just to barley get by.

[@nateisinvincible]

Exactly

[@keithspernak6456]

My wife and I waited until our mid-30's. We waited until we purchased a home and had stable employment with full benefits like Healthcare and decent vacation/sick time. We both grinded hard to make that happen, but it ALWAYS felt attainable.... these days I feel like younger adults have to work 3x as hard to make this happen.

[@willsmith4575]

@@keithspernak6456 as a young adult I can tell you we are appreciative when the older folks acknowledge we are trying to build a life in one of the worst American economies to ever exist. Still no excuses only option is to work harder and smarter.

[@ousamaabdu794]

PBD understands.. The fact is he's extremely self absorbed and only looks at many things though a personal lens smh

[@tcompound327]

@@keithspernak6456thank you! There are a lot of older folks who don’t understand that.

[@andrejamison2723]

My wife passed away when I was 39. My daughter had just turned 5. That was 11 years ago. Adam don't understand the energy that goes into being a parent. The older you get the more you have to stay mentally and physically in shape.

[@kane_lives]

Oh?

[@Shannon_Stamm]

I am so sorry for your loss😢 I hope you find love again ♥🥰 Peace to your heart❤‍🩹

[@andrejamison2723]

@@kane_lives He who finds a good wife finds a good thing. Maybe if we marry for the right reasons. And perhaps if we introduce Shame into quitting we wouldn't have so many divorces

[@andrejamison2723]

@@Shannon_Stamm Thank you. God's will.

[@kane_lives]

​@@andrejamison2723 In ye olden days they separated even without divorces. Here's Bible, PBD's goto book: "Better to live on a corner of the roof. than share a house with a quarrelsome wife." Proverbs 21:9

[@skaraborgcraft]

Many people confuse "focused" as being selfish. 5 years of "focus" while being called by "friends", "selfish", put me in a better position to achieve MY goals and to benefit MY future family. Those i still know, now understand. Some people just do not like seeing others achieve, so who exactly is being selfish?

[@notme1255]

Your life is basically describing Tom's life before he got married. So neither of you are selfish since your purpose was to provide a stable life for others around you later on. That's not selfish at all. But Adam also achieved financial success and yet he's still clubbing and having one night stands with barely legal bar flies. I mean... He doesn't seem "focused" in my opinion. He just wants what comes easy.

[@lks11]

i cant wait til america collapses financially to see what your excuses are for not having children and a failed country

[@drakeblack7419]

So much irony in saying that you weren't selfish while capitalizing "MY".

[@seanneumann5790]

To pretend you can’t have purpose outside of family is absurd. And the most selfish thing I can think of is having kids and then neglecting them to run a business for 15 hours a day.

[@dadwatchesthenet9270]

I think many people overlook this point. It mirrors people who buy a dog but don't like to walk it or take care of it. The dog suffers because the person isn't realistic about their dedication to something besides themself.

[@LiGhTfOoT_]

It seems like this is something that would be common sense/an easy idea to grasp and understand like you both are mentioning, but seems to just go over people's head for some odd reason....

[@JVice12]

It’s not about pretending. It’s about understanding simple biology. Most humans would PREFER a mutual relationship with another human.

[@ree4214]

You can’t have purpose outside of relationships. That’s a fact.

[@seanneumann5790]

@@ree4214 opinion

[@stevenewton6776]

You can make the argument that having kids is selfish

[@jaamall]

You can have a family and still be selfish. I don't get the logic that its only inherent in single people.

[@ronaldwilliams8436]

Dosen’t fit their narrative.

[@ElleJae-b9q]

Right!

[@prestonsimmons65]

Drake is your avi. You’re not qualified to comment

[@jaamall]

@@prestonsimmons65 if you knew me you'd understand.

[@LiGhTfOoT_]

Welcome to the new agenda push that is about to consume the media. "Have kids even if you cant afford them! If you don't, you're a selfish pos!"

[@boomgreek]

I have a lot of friends who have kids and they are absolutely miserable, stressed and just dont like their life. Kids isnt for everyone. Its a life choice no right or wrong.

[@DM-uz8gq]

Kids are usually not the source of this misery unless the parents suck at parenting. It is probably the relationship with the spouse…

[@gitoffmahlawn]

It's probably because our society tells adults to be selfish and they think they deserve a different life. Big boxes of adult snacks from Costco, designer dogs, and trips to Adult Disney aren't actually fulfilling though.

[@notme1255]

Then Adam should be consistent in his argument. He says he wants those things but then criticizes Tom for having exactly that. If he's "happy" without it then quit acting like he wants it and leave everyone else alone!! He's constantly on the attack with Tom and it's his own fault. Clearly he's angry at Tom because Adam sees Tom's happiness that he's not capable of creating himself.

[@trstrong87]

@@DM-uz8gqor the money that it takes to raise the kids .

[@home4life505]

Im the opposite. I just took my kids to Europa Park. To see their smiles. The best feeling.

[@datarock57]

For the first time I actually agree with Adam. Be selfish. Make and save money, then have kids in your 30s and 40s. I had my first kid at 18 fresh out of high school. Newly married in the military always deployed or getting extended on deployments. I would not do that again. Those first 10 years were terrible trying to get my wife through school and deployments. And if you don't have trustworthy family to help It's going to be very hard. I'm very blessed in that department! The location you live is going to matter as well. I have plenty of friends who do not want kids and would rather adopt a kid than have their own. Lastly, everyone should not have kids. Why bring a life in this world if You're just going to teach them to struggle.

[@gitoffmahlawn]

The obstacle is the way. -Marcus Aurelius I hope you can see the value in your struggles someday. Easy lives do not build character and strength.

[@datarock57]

@@gitoffmahlawn If I would have been killed overseas I would have two sons out here that would not have had a dad. And the cycle would have repeated. 20/20 hindsight I view that as reckless on my part. But wisdom comes with age, the young rush to fool's gold. I understand my value as a father. 😂

[@arturtopolszki8424]

First thank you for your service. I do understand your point, that you want to be responsible, that’s what i hear everyday (biology don’t care about your financial social status) Look at history where people lived in a society where there was no phone, internet, airplanes, cars etc. They went to war for years, no contact, nothing. And they had kids, not one or two but a team. Your advice to be at least 30, is not good at all. At 30 or older the pool of good quality women or men is so much lower, because those good women or men are married. I know it is a more complicated issue, but society, biology, quality of life, the health of the offsprings etc., the best if the marriage starts the latest at early twenties. Selfishness kills us, when we just think of ourselves and not even considering the well being of others. I hear and see so many lonely people who either turn to alcohol or drugs or replacing kids with cats. So many people who are in their 40’s still playing video games but don’t read books or raise kids. The “smart” ones at least try with fertility clinics.

[@datarock57]

@@arturtopolszki8424 Why should I care about another person's household, need/want for kids or marriage. The advice I gave was based on my life situation. Clearly I had kids while I was In high school and overseas. I'm 40 with a 3-year-old daughter and two boys in college. I know from experience it is drastically different from when I first had my kids at 18/19 to My last one at 37. Where now my wife and I both make six figures. You would be very hard-pressed to get my wife to agree with you on having kids when you're not ready, ideology.. We lived that experience. That struggling stuff was not fun. Also, we've been together since 9th grade. So our situation is different from a lot of people. I respect your opinion. I'm just not going to tell my sons to go broke and be unhappy in life with kids. Mind you. I'm taking care of my older brother's kids as well. He had kids at 25 and was divorced by 27. Neither My brother or his Ex-Wife was financially stable to keep their kids. Lastly, my father has 17 kids I'm not going to say he's a bad dad. But statistically LOL. The majority of the kids not doing good. But to each their own

[@datarock57]

@@arturtopolszki8424 No, my advice is make sure you're settled And content in life before you have kids. Statistically 30 and up for males is about that time. Women have biological clocks. So maybe my advice is not for them. But I do know that if a woman is unhappy in her situation then the male will not be happy. Y'all talking like raising kids is the most rewarding thing in life and that's just not true for everybody.

[@whiskeysprings]

We’re having fewer kids not because we’re selfish but because we literally can’t afford them. Young people can’t afford a house, car healthcare. Parents are expected to put their kids through college, covering much of their rent, tuition, etc. It’s not selfishness, it’s economics.

[@cozzwozzle]

Then why do poor people have more children?

[@aishanusoul]

Exactly

[@dalcero7]

Bullshit, you're just lazy

[@amatulfulani6390]

@@cozzwozzle Those children are usually not planned. And in poorer countries, the children are seen a cheap labor.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

​@@cozzwozzle They get government benefits

[@AABERMUDEZ]

why does pat care if someone has kids, its not your problem. Some people shouldn't have kids. If you can afford to have children do it, if you can afford don't. Don't bring kids into this world to suffer because you're broke.

[@lauriewin9551]

Following that rule, PBD shouldn't have been born. Parents who love their children, provide the best they can for them, and model healthy loving relationships will grow up never feeling like they were poor.

[@williamblackburn313]

You don’t need to be rich to raise kids. You can sacrifice certain personal habits to provide the needs for your children.

[@TheAaronChand]

Because you need children to keep your family linage going and your country and cvilization going thsts the point Patrick is making

[@ashlynncooney8766]

I don’t have kids not because I’m selfish ..I think too many people have kids for selfish reasons. Save their marriage , have someone to take of them when they are old, or it will make your life more fulfilling. I would want my child to have opportunity and have a good life . I’m not comfortable bringing my child into the shitshow that is our country right now ..

[@Baldwinthefourth-1176]

It always be a shit show!! Tell that to the people who gave birth during the world wars, plagues, and Great Depression. There will never be a perfect time

[@cparksaffluent]

@kayn6858 “nothing but” is a bit of a stretch.

[@cparksaffluent]

@kayn6858 I can give you my reason. I was always take it or leave it when it came to having a kid or even having a long term girlfriend. I was a guy who never had a problem getting women, my problem was making them go away after. I met my now fiancé, she’s been so great to me from the moment i met her and for years after. She was trustworthy, smart, reasonable, non-combative, the list of good qualities can go on. The one thing she wanted from me is to have a baby. We lived together for a few years and she continued to be great so I gave her what she wanted. I honestly wasn’t too excited about the extra responsibility but I figured she had been so good to me the least I can do is this for her. I guess you could say I was being selfish because I wanted to make her happy but like I mentioned life would be much easier for me without the added responsibility. I’m not saying no one ever does it for selfish reasons, I just wouldn’t say always.

[@TheXrysali]

@kayn6858 the fact that people value family and community and taking care of others in itself is not selfish... It is common knowledge that once you have kids you are sacrificing yourself and your freedom

[@lhug921]

1. Good spouses don’t grow on trees. You can’t just pick one when your appetite says so. 2. Is anyone going to address how outrageously expensive it is to birth and raise children nowadays? How about the difference between wages and inflation? Money doesn’t grow on trees either.

[@janelleg597]

Doesn't have to be expensive. People are so extra

[@jd87926]

So what's the end game? Wait for the economy to get better to have kids while there is a biological clock in your body? 😂 Keep waiting.

[@southlondon86]

@@janelleg597Sir she is only stating the practical facts.

[@Victor-it6bv]

Some people are problem solvers and some people are excuse makers. If you think can or cannot, you are right.

[@jbx1310]

It's absolutely expensive. It doesn't make a person selfish to want to be able to provide at least a middle class upbringing for your kids. Raise them in a good neighborhood, good school, they can participate in extra curricular activities. We can travel once or twice a year as a family. We're not eating Ramen noodles and spam for dinner. Also if your a person of color especially your probably going to want to raise children in a diverse area where it's more populated and typically more expensive. Most major cities if your not making bare minimum 150k a year your not taking care of two or three kids and live comfortably

[@papershirt3706]

Not selfish, everything is expensive and divorce is a huge net loss

[@re9107]

You need to be very careful and selective.

[@acceleration1146]

You need to know how to pick well

[@Mr_Don1]

Avoid vapid women. You don't marry the "hot" girl who posts a different selfie every day. You marry the decent one.

[@AutumnBrenna]

What you just said was me me me “ I might suffer so I won’t”

[@markadler8968]

@@acceleration1146 Picking well isn't going to save you. The facts are that over 50% of first marriages end up in divorce. Not only that but how many people are unhappily married? How many are actually happy maybe 10%? The facts are that marriage is a completely antiquated idea that has run its course. Marriage is done.

[@CanadaMath]

It is NOT selfish to not have kids. In fact it is selfish to have kids. I will explain: People who have kids, do so, because it is all about them and their ego. I have to have kids, I have to have that family photo, I have to carry on my family name, I need kids to take care of me when I am old, I want kids because of this reason or that reason. It is deeply selfish to have kids. In contrast those who don’t have kids (like me) are selfless. We actually care about the world and the overpopulation. Kids are a waste of time, a waste of money. A constant source of stress and disappointment and worry. Kids? No thanks.

[@Aunny123]

Having kids in your twenties when you struggle to afford basic necessities is irresponsible and the burden ultimately falls on the child.

[@rogerward801]

Did just that. Managed it just fine. No such thing as a perfect time to have a family

[@Joel-te4pc]

Same. @aunny123 if we all waited for the right time, life would mean nothing!

[@rogerward801]

@Joel-te4pc And there is no such thing as "a right time." We can always make another excuse

[@lks11]

i cant wait til america collapses financially to see what your excuses are for not having children and a failed country

[@zaccatacc]

Oversimplified survivorship bias​@@rogerward801

[@momiau-keliikoa4975]

Having a family is expensive and a big responsibility. We owe it to the next generation to be prepared to bring them into this tough world we live in.

[@Mr_Don1]

That means you jump right in and do it. Waiting until you make a certain amount of money usually just means that you'll never do it, because you can never truly "afford" a family. It's best to marry young and build together. That way, you're both invested in it and you both have skin in the game.

[@desiprioleau]

Some people actually care about the situation they bring a child into. I don’t know what’s so hard to understand. A lot of people don’t seem to realize how crappy their parenting actually is.

[@synergygaming604]

@@Mr_Don1 It's an interesting take because this is often the same crowd screaming financial responsibility and to live within your means and having a child when you don't feel financially comfortable to do so completely contradicts these notions.

[@Mr_Don1]

@@synergygaming604 fair enough, but I don't think throwing money away on frivolous things is the same as having a family.

[@rickclark7508]

What Next Generation? Those who value things like abortion and vacationing over family rearing don't have a Next Generation. Unfortunately it will be left to the rest of us to maintain the infrastructure and try to have enough doctors and such to keep civilization going.

[@lifeoftoast1864]

People are having less kids because of the prevalance of divorce.

[@samanthawhang7498]

Which often comes down to selfishness

[@TScott-vp9zv]

Delete this please. This is not the reason!!

[@TScott-vp9zv]

@@samanthawhang7498 So a spouse leaving domestic violence is selfish?

[@petrwindmeijer7542]

​@@TScott-vp9zv the victem card. The most violance at lesbians. The lowest with gay dude,s . So it,s almost alway,s the female. . A man must never get married.

[@KingDroza.]

⁠@@TScott-vp9zv bruh did she say that and that is literally a minority of divorces.

[@toloveandtobeloved14]

As a 25 year old woman I highly value this channel and the family-oriented values you guys have. It's refreshing and reminds me that there are great men out there. To address Adam's point, perhaps other members on the panel could be a little less confrontational when he's speaking because it will allow him to articulate his point without getting defensive. He's basically saying the same thing that Tom was saying, which is to work on yourself when you're young so you can set a foundation for the future. Maybe Adam is not as service-oriented as Tom was when he was young. Also, Adam probably could benefit from starting to look for a woman to settle down with (if he is not already), since he's getting older.. I think the point the panel members were trying to make though is that now is when he should be starting to consider having a family rather than prolonging it further

[@josephhenry6912]

Disagree. Some people are happy not married or with no kids. Has nothing to do with being selfish.

[@rickclark7508]

You have to think a little deeper about what is meant by the accusation of selfishness. So many people just want to spend their time going on vacations and having bigger houses and nicer cars. Civilization cannot continue with our current birth rate. We have the benefits of the society that was gifted To Us by our ancestors who made the sacrifices but we are not taking on the responsibilities necessary to pass that down to those who are inheriting this Society. We wouldn't be here today if ours just ancestors decided they were just going to spend all their money traveling and buying nice things. We live in the me me me era. By all means don't have kids and live for yourself. Trouble comes when it's a trend and so many people are following that same path. It's not sustainable if we want civilization to continue and improve.

[@DenisDamulira23]

Happy alone...really? Humans are social beings. Being alone = slowly going insane. Unless you mean being alone and using other people's daughters or sons and dumping them which is also selfish.

[@chelly2468]

@@rickclark7508that’s a very good point. Thank you for explaining that

[@katkat5871]

@@rickclark7508look you are making a big deal of of nothing. I work is a hospital where thousands of babies are born each year. The only people who are not having babies are white people. And that’s what you are all worried about. No one wants to say it well I’m going to.

[@dajackal7]

@@rickclark7508 While you make a profound point, you are missing a larger point as well. Is this due to men changing, or laws made to accommodate woman thereby having a trickledown effect where men adapt to make sure they manage risk smartly? Women in mass are no longer playing their role collectively and are incentivized to be masculine. You can thank feminism for that. So, what do you tell men, to suck it up and deal with it while they gain little to no benefit, while women continue to thrive? The solution would be to start with our laws and judicial systems: - Stop allowing large payouts for divorces - Custody of children in divorce as a baseline should be 50/50 - Get rid of alimony - Mandatory DNA testing nationwide Just to name a few. People make choices based on the options they have available and men in mass realize their options are limited. So I don't look down on them at all, I am smart enough to understand that men being logical creatures who built the world we live in are making a logical choice to protect themselves from an unjust system set up for them to fail.

[@ripplerfx]

I think some men are just wired to be single and/or child less. Not everyone should be a father, period. Just like how some women aren’t wired to be mothers either. Let people do what they want

[@muslimsister5613]

It's not about being wired one way or another, it's about what your family and society are teaching you to value. But as an adult, you need to grow up and realize what truly matters in life no matter what you've been brainwashed to think.

[@nicksantangelo9083]

Pat is out of touch on this topic. Between the divorce rates, high cost of living, changing economy, changing demographics, awful education system and how hard it is to date an find a decent girl to start a life/family with.

[@notme1255]

Well if it takes so long to find the right person and make enough money then Adam shouldn't be criticizing Tom at all. Because Tom did it right according to your own statement.

[@kane_lives]

@@notme1255 How so? Tom's example is an anecdote showcasing survivorship bias. The stats on marriage are clear, it's massively disadvantageous to men.

[@gdc6614]

Divorce is high because people are selfish. Both parties need to work it out. And know that you're in it until the end.

[@MayorOfBodybuildingTV]

Totally lost.

[@notme1255]

@@kane_lives Tom waited for all of those things to no longer become a hindrance for him financially and waited for the right woman who wasn't an E thot. Plus the divorce stats are extremely skewed. Many studies don't actually take "repeat offenders" into consideration. Half my family has like 8 divorces between the 4 of them while the other half has 0. But they dont factor that in, until you find more accurate studies that show you're more likely to divorce if you've already been divorced. It's about finding the right person who's got the right values, which often involves commitment and loyalty.

[@DamienStar69]

Selfish to not have kids, huh? Becoming a parent makes you selfless, seriously? No narcissism in people popping out kids so they have a little mini-me, trying to live a different life vicariously through their children, wanting a piece of themselves to live on after they are gone.. Not everyone that wants kids is like this. Various reasons to want to be a parent or not.

[@notme1255]

Yikes. An entire paragraph of projection...

[@angelicaangel2624]

You're right, I can't think of one unselfish reason to have a child. Not one.

[@ashlynncooney8766]

She’s not saying it will happen she’s saying it can and does often happen …no projecting ?

[@desiprioleau]

It’s worse when their argument is “who will take care of you in old age?!” Who’s really selfish 🥴

[@notme1255]

@@ashlynncooney8766 What is so hard to grasp about having a family? Think about why you get a pet- Because you want to love something other than yourself, because you want to feel like you're a part of something bigger when you come home? Because you look forward to seeing their smile and making them happy with treats and affection? Why is it so hard to grasp why you'd want to share love and happiness with a family then? It's literally not any different. If you have no love in your heart for anything or anyone other than yourself then yeah, you're selfish. Not hard to grasp. The only people who hate animals (and by extension, babies too) are sociopaths with no emotion who shouldn't have pets or family anyway.

[@Ap_twsh]

I mean it’s easy for pbd to say that when he’s got a mansion in Florida, he doesn’t have to commute and deal with traffic.

[@cman8798]

Exactly, Adam point was he prepared before having kids. Some people shouldn't have kids and some should be financially prepared before having kids.

[@gdc6614]

Having your kids makes you hustle 💯 ❤

[@cman8798]

@@gdc6614 not for everyone.

[@VisionClearly]

​@@gdc6614, Agreed.

[@gdc6614]

@@cman8798 it's a state of mind.

[@angkawawangcowboy2000]

People with kids are bitter af. If you don’t want kids, don’t. Live your life how you want

[@Dee-qg6qq]

stg bro! everybody don’t want fucking kids lol and that’s OKAY!

[@TheXrysali]

everyone I know with kids is happy and full... the ones who are not happy are selfish and narcissistic and shitty people for society

[@amars8360]

So are single people. Let not shit yourself.

[@DixiecratDemocrat]

It's selfish to have children if you don't have the time and finances to care for them.

[@mvpd98]

Adam was right, even Tom and PBD didnt have kids until later in life when they were successful. They just had such a hard time agreeing because of the words he used even though they both lived exactly like Adam described.

[@cornelisscholtz4658]

You seem to forget that it takes a woman to agree to having a kid, right? The majority of women live by the ideology of Adam, be selfish AF. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@slick1737]

Adam used the wrong terms to make his point.

[@mvpd98]

@@slick1737 semantics

[@wlombardo31]

I don't have any kids because i am being responsible. It's selfish to have kids in a environment that is not good for them. When you can for sure have 30k a year more to feed the kid. Send them to school , have enough time to be a parent and pay for it all, having a kid then asking others to pay it is selfish. That's the problem for a lot. Having kids to be not selfish is crazy and probably why we have so many bad parents that were never ready to have 1 to start with. We have so many kids already but no parenting so lets just have more. Thats crazy. Or you can have them to build your empire but thats selfish if you have kids to become more powerful. I was one of those kids that had no food, went to school with one shoe , green feet from having no shoes and playing outside. Had scrub cloths according to other kids in the class, even the teachers treat you that way when your parents are not there doing the job. Or even if its just money. Knowing a kid gonna have a hard time due to your lack of anything growing up and you still have one. That's selfish

[@ashlynncooney8766]

Agreed!!! The amount of parental abuse in this country lately completely breaks my heart. To me those parents are the selfish ones . Too many people look at being a parent as an obligation or chore…it’s a privilege especially when life is so expensive.

[@katkat5871]

That’s exactly how I see it. I could have been very irresponsible and have 3 more and give them a shitty life just not to be selfish and make PBD happy 😂

[@lks11]

i cant wait til america collapses financially to see what your excuses are for not having children and a failed country

[@AmanSS890]

If you can’t take care of yourself how way bro g kids to the world . Kids cost money the only time I had my kids was when I was settled financially. To being a kid in to this world and you have. No money, no long term goals it’s not good for the kid . I have two kids I am well of can spend mo ey on them and not worry will I have enough left it’s not selfish not to have kids it’s self bring them into this world and don’t have the money to take care of them .

[@djee02]

Married people with kids really want everybody else to be married with kids. If it's so great, isn't it enough that it works for you?

[@bloodcurdling3581]

It is because they want us to live the same shitty life they are living. THEY are the one being selfish

[@Slim_Nady]

I’m almost 25 and my son came along a few years ago when I was 22. Best thing that’s ever happened to me and I’m grateful I get to enjoy the youth portion of my adulthood with my son so I can do more with him and be active and hopefully be active and able when he has kids

[@karenshaffer1265]

Not everyone wants kids and not everyone wants to get married.. sometimes people should not do either.

[@ebbb365]

That’s fair. I just think a lot of young people’s priorities and mindsets will change into their 30s and 40s. You only have a certain window to do these things and I’d feel sad for people who regret

[@kungfoochicken08]

It doesn’t matter what people want. Too much of this culture is about satisfying these short term impulses. I don’t want to brush my teeth or take a shower or file my taxes, but you have a duty to act responsibly for your future, to make those sacrifices. When you’re meeting your grandchildren at an age young enough to still play with them, you won’t be thinking “damn, I wish I had a few more hot girl summers.”

[@theebonymaw]

​@@kungfoochicken08 ha! shovel all that "duty" crap to the previous generations who have actively robbed current and future generations of the opportunity to have the life they did.

[@kungfoochicken08]

@@theebonymaw You’re actively doing the same thing by choosing Netflix and Uber Eats over starting a family.

[@synergygaming604]

If you want a kid have a kid, and if you don't then don't. It has nothing to do with "selfishness" or being "selfless." Just worry about your own house and let others worry about theirs.

[@rickclark7508]

Not so simple. We live in a society. Everyone is interconnected. We don't just live our lives in a vacuum. Some of us enjoy civilization and want to see it continue and improve. Others just want to live for themselves.

[@static49ers8]

sorry bro we live in a society.

[@lks11]

i cant wait til america collapses financially to see what your excuses are for not having children and a failed country

[@belle8i]

Ya, we live in a society that is extremely flawed and doesn't want to provide for its own. You can expect people to have children but you have to build a society that is worth continuing. It seems like we have a lot of people who call themselves Christian but certainly don't want to be Christians and practice what they preach. I’m the one who will be responsible for the well-being of my child and society will probably do a shite job in my stead, so I need to make sure the nest is ready before I start reproducing. There are methods for natural family planning, and if you do end up having a child before life falls into place, at least you’ve built something. Marriage should also be a precursor, so you have to take your choice of a spouse very seriously.

[@lks11]

@@belle8i 🤣🤣🤣 ill let you see how that goes when america is broke and childless

[@jonhagan5219]

So what? I don't want kids and enjoy being single. If it's selfish, then there's nothing wrong with it.

[@forman208]

Frankly it'd be selfish for you to get married or have kids based off societal pressure.

[@MrCarpediem6]

Being single has its own set responsibilities if taken seriously

[@andreal5947]

Same here, thank you

[@lks11]

@@forman208 i cant wait til america collapses financially to see what your excuses are for not having children and a failed country

[@fatmonkey4716]

Well, if you are being selfish, then I have to be selfish, so that you can't take things from me. And down society goes. You selfish people never think about the consequences of your actions. That is why you are the real problem society faces.

[@sheepdawg23wm]

This was a spicy debate. Not sure i agree with Tom or Adam. I do know that having children doesnt make you a parent. Children require constant love and attention. Kids grow relationships with the parent that is home. The provider of the home generally never has the same relationship with their children. Children have no concept of the sacriface required to properly provide for a family and this is why they get a certain amount of resentment toward the provider. In a childs mind, they belief the provider likes to be away working, rather than home with them. If both parents are working extremely long hours to provide a comfortable lifestyle, and the kids are showered with gifts rather than love and attention, those children often times display very risky, troublemaking sort of behavior. To be a successful parent, requires your children to be the PRIORITY. Dont mistake Priority as being your childs friend. Children require your love, but they also require discipline, and tought life lessons. To wrap up this derailed train, dont have children until you're ready. If that time never comes, then it never comes.

[@TheLucky17]

Well written and poignant

[@spartanelite6639]

I think Adam is just misunderstood and I don’t always agree with him. I think he is just trying to say, focus on yourself and your ambitions if you’re a man. Build your wealth and make yourself valuable. Then go out and build a family when you have some sort of financial stability.

[@jameltanderson]

Exactly nothing he said was wrong he’s trying to be most successful he could be for his future children/familly

[@ree4214]

That life is not guaranteed. It’s not automatic you’re going to look up one day and the mate will just appear. Also fertility for men in their 40’s?! It’s a hit or miss.

[@abbery9202]

@@ree4214 Robert de niro just had a kid at like 78

[@ree4214]

@@abbery9202 hit or miss. Exception. Not the rule. Look at the billions spent on infertility- and it’s not all because of the women. Modern day men are not what they used to be.

[@abbery9202]

@@ree4214 Modern day men who have a garbage diet and have low testosterone because of processed food and plastic use are going to be less fertile but men who don't do that are going to be fine. If you plan to have kids at an older age then you should know this. If a guy can be fertile at almost 80 years old, the average guy who eats healthy and excercises will be plenty fertile into his 50s.

[@mamancooper942]

I think Tom is overreacting. Adam is saying take care of yourself while single he’s not saying don’t care about anyone.

[@jaredgruttadauria8072]

Divorce, cost of having a family and no guarantee of growing old. There is no guarantee of anything to have a family. Do what you want in life. If that’s kids and a wife, early, great.

[@sdmfp333]

Very true

[@0rnery0verwatch]

Yeah I strongly sense PBD is just projecting his definition of "wealth" and "value" onto others.

[@lks11]

i cant wait til america collapses financially to see what your excuses are for not having children and a failed country

[@jameltanderson]

⁠​⁠@@0rnery0verwatch of course he is he does it with everything politics religion and life in general

[@GeorgeDrake-r2x]

I got married and had kids at 19 I'm 30 with 4 kids. Nothing greater than family. Nothing greater than being a leader to a family you've created.

[@plumpoctave1532]

Different times

[@shasta1730]

@@plumpoctave1532she’s 30. How is that different times? She’s a millenial

[@RatchetCoon]

Having weekends all to yourself is.

[@SuperGirl-tf2wn]

Jesus, talk about not even living for yourself for five minutes.

[@Vertexp]

@@SuperGirl-tf2wn never gave themselves a chance lol, they’ll never know the taste unfortunately.

[@foresttucker3632]

Agree with Adam on this one to a certain extent. Sometimes Tom acts holier than everyone. Agree with him most of the time but annoyed me in this argument for some reason.

[@dadwatchesthenet9270]

I think Tom and Adam are still rehashing old arguments and hurt feelings. When they lash out its not necessarily this disagreement but the last 3!

[@lks11]

i cant wait til america collapses financially to see what your excuses are for not having children and a failed country

[@donnasantiago5016]

I think Adam's cockiness rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Whenever someone tries to give him advice he often comes back with insults. The way he talks and interacts with people is rude. He needs something in his life to humble him a little bit. I don't know what that should be...but maybe he needs to listen more often, instead of hurling insults at everyone he doesn't agree with. I often hear him say annoying things and it just confirms, to me, that he's so childish and just rude.

[@jameltanderson]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@donnasantiago5016 if he didn’t ask him for that advice than that’s annoying as hell. Did it ever cross your mind that he doesn’t want Tom’s life

[@donnasantiago5016]

@@jameltanderson well, he often says that he wants a wife and kids. So maybe people with a wife and kids know more about having a family than he does.

[@kidzbop38isstraightfire92]

"If you don't work all the time and make alot of money and raise a family, you're wrong." - PBD, 2024

[@katkat5871]

This podcast is so toxic

[@jadizm]

Hard to disagree, Pat on occasion goes on a high and mighty rant where what he says should be set in stone. This is one of them...

[@user-yk4qt2bs5y]

I think PBD is insightful at times but yeah some of his rants stemming from his personal beliefs come off as too aggressive and over bearing. If you want kids, great. If you don't want them, then don't have them. That simple

[@fatmonkey4716]

He is exactly right. You are being selfish. I am guessing that you all make excuses to yourselves and have gotten very good at making excuses. But making excuses for poor behavior only increases the poor behavior. You selfish people are allowing the negative consequences we are facing as a society today.

[@user-yk4qt2bs5y]

​@@fatmonkey4716 I've met some people who should have never had kids. I think it comes down to personal preference

[@mikeyh8747]

I had my first kid at 19 and my third by 27. Wife and I are still going strong and have been together since 08. Kids eat up all of our money with various sports and activities but I can't think of a better way to spend our time and money.

[@lifeofkali9999]

Pat this is one of the most impactful clips I’ve seen on your channel. I think you covered the essence of family from all angles and your guidance to Adam, whether he follows it or not, is clearly rooted in love and selflessness. Some of us don’t hear these conversations as young men, and it definitely doesn’t fall on deaf ears!

[@christazarza887]

Adam isn't a young whippersnapper. But he acts like one. He is consistently immature. He really doesn't need to shout from the rooftop to focus on himself. It's apparent that's what he does. This is why he has yet to find a quality woman. Also his fear of putting something or someone before himself. I'm sad for him.

[@ابراهيم_محمد_الازهر]

Dude is almost 50

[@bobjove6511]

Truth ❤

[@brianbarros7099]

He'll never get married or have children.

[@re9107]

🤣🤣

[@re9107]

Yeah, I can’t imagine a good decent woman picking this arrogant clown.

[@chinaexpat1827]

SO ME DECIDING NOT TO BRING KIDS INTO A TROUBLED WORLD AND NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD THEM IS SELFISH?

[@RoseRose-ow5zy]

A-lot of religious people think that way. It’s important to make sure you know what you want . It’s not selfish .

[@jameltanderson]

Its insane

[@w12p67]

People were saying the same thing in the 60's. That generation did just fine.

[@Dbo_Sports]

@@RoseRose-ow5zyBut they’re wrong… they don’t know their Bibles. In the Old Testament, the Lord said “be fruitful and multiply”. But in the New Testament Paul says, that if you want to be single, then be single because it is better to be single and serve the Lord, because a family compromises you. You end up serving the family rather than serving the Lord. Those religious types don’t know their Bibles.

[@violet7752]

@@Dbo_Sports I agree. Paul said some will have the gift of singleness and some marriage. Each man will have their own gift from God. If marriage was a gift for everyone then no one would get divorced.

[@njcolvin92]

Trying to come up with a one size fits all age for marriage is so stupid.

[@jameltanderson]

That’s why young people reject tradition because a lot of times it doesn’t make sense

[@ree4214]

Welp. You can’t be married and selfish. Period.

[@alHuwariyunMuslim]

@@jameltandersontradition is answers to problems we forgot about.

[@jameltanderson]

@@alHuwariyunMuslim no you’re confusing doing something for a long time to doing it correctly.

[@pt4350]

It’s selflessness for me. Children don’t choose to be here and it’s crazy to me that people bring children into this world without thinking about the world they are bringing them into. You can create other relationships that fill your life without bringing a child into the world if you don’t want to. You can give to this world beyond having children. You can have purpose without having children. Doesn’t make you selfish.

[@cuppa_joe]

I agreed with Tom up until he said he got married at 40 and had his first child at 44. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[@nattiemania]

No, it's not hypocrisy. He did not defend his journey. Wtf is wrong with some of you young American today with comprehension. I would argue that Tom is even in a better place to advise you over PBD from his personal experience and struggles. Just because you people who lived otherwise but with valuable advice and lessons from experience can not advise you? Fkn moronic ideology, and you all keep spreading it like it's valid.

[@rysky007]

I wouldn't call it hypocrisy but more of an Awakening if I could have I could go back I would have children at a much younger age but I was an idiot and I waited until I was in my thirties

[@cuppa_joe]

@@rysky007 Doesn't matter whether it was an awakening or not. Tom has no business acting all self-righteous and telling others how to live their own lives when he has not lived up to those standards himself.

[@cuppa_joe]

@@nattiemania It would be different if he was advising or encouraging but that's not what he's doing. He's acting all self righteous and telling Adam how to live his life when Tom himself did not live up to those standards he's spouting. I can tell my kids to not do drugs. Because guess what? I've never done any hard drugs, I've never touched a cigarette, smoked marijuana, vaped, etc. I can tell them that because I've had the self discipline to avoid that temptation. Lead by example.

[@jeanmako6643]

@@cuppa_joe I don't think he was talking about Adam having kids or getting married, he was talking about Adam saying to be selfish AF, that is what he was referring to. He said that it was a bad advice to tell people to be selfish AF when they are single.

[@sawymath]

All the members of my family moved away or emigrated and left their parents, started families. I now have to look after their mother, my grandmother, who's 91 years old. When she dies, i bet they will come back for their inheritance. Fuck families.

[@tomzhang4088]

Ya that’s fucked up

[@forman208]

The sad truth is a lot of kids just dump their parents into a nursing home and maybe see them once or twice a month. Having kids is far from a guarantee of avoiding loneliness when you're older

[@sawymath]

@@forman208 I definitely wouldn't have kids on the option of your reply. Why have kids if they are willing to leave you and dump you into a nursing home.

[@FazeParticles]

family was never enough. the community and religious leaders working together would be enough to establish healthy families.

[@danielj3010]

PBD will be selling merch until the age of 90.

[@gdc6614]

And it's OK, as long as he is enjoy it.

[@smileypc44]

Was there a point?

[@tim1traitimaccount269]

most people that want marriage and kids do so because of selfish reasons of wanting society to view them as mature, not be lonely, etc so is that just as selfish too? look, people should have kids but marriage in 2024 is not easy.

[@JohnDoe-iv7yu]

"Why aren't people having kids? Because they are selfish." - PBD NO, its because we ASK our friends and family members who have kids and give them a few glasses of wine and ask them how being married and having kids is. Ever hear of MARRIED WITH CHILDREN? It's wonderful, if you ARE RICH! Ask anyone privately and they always say "I LOVE my kids... but...." and then comes the truth. Too expensive. Too time consuming. Not enough joy with kids. Kids exposed to the internet, porn, death, social pressure, too early. Overpopulation. Its FAR more nuanced than what PBD is saying here.

[@TheXrysali]

too time consuming? so then they are selfish. the problem is that people who are also having kids are selfish

[@woodlawn42069]

Help me understand why having a kid is selfless. Don’t most people try to live out their lives’ regrets through their kids?

[@angelicaangel2624]

There isn't one reason to have a child that isn't selfish imo. I've asked loads of parents recently why they chose to have kids and some of the answers scared me to be honest. Here's a short summary of what I was told. 1. It's just what you're supposed to do. 2. My parents wouldn't be happy if I didn't give them grandchildren. 3. To eventually have grandchildren to give me purpose in old age. 4. To have someone to take care of me when I'm old. 5. To carry on my legacy. 6. To give me a reason to get up and go to work every day and keep going. All selfish reasons. All of them.

[@DonesdeMotivacion]

How is not selfish? You are raising the next generation of citizens by giving away your time, resources, effort. Regardless of the other 10000000 other reasons could be… you are giving more than what you get. If that’s not selfless enough for you then you have a distorted notion of what selfish and selfless is

[@DonesdeMotivacion]

@@angelicaangel2624can you tell me how you are NOT selfish by not having them? On? I welcome debate

[@woodlawn42069]

@@DonesdeMotivacion why is having the kid you give a shit about prerequisite for “raising the next generation”? The kid has to come from your dick to care about it? Sounds selfish.

[@katkat5871]

@@DonesdeMotivacionthis is a very stupid argument.

[@akendon7260]

As a father of 4 kids, 2 in my late 20s, one in my mid 30s and one in my early 40s, I'll say late 30s and early 40s is best time for men to start a family. I was financially stable, patient and had lots of free time to spend with my last baby. My wife joked, if I knew things would this fun, we would have waited to have them all now. I was so stressed out in my 20s thru mid 30s, honestly looking back, it wasn't fun.

[@johnsambo9379]

No it's not and you know it. If you want to be healthy and see your kids get married then your mid 20's is the best time.

[@Nathan-rf8ko]

Problem with mid 30s and 40s is that you’ll barely have any time with grandchildren. Mid to late 20s is much better for both men and women (at least those who care about being 60, 70 or 80 and surrounded by family)

[@renecasas7484]

I agree bro. I'm actually a father at 41, when I was in my 20 I rarely was

[@lks11]

the average person lives to like 77-80 years old what are you even talking about.... you wont even see your grandchildren statistically.

[@gw7120]

People are having less kids because of the cost of living

[@Wade-1]

That's what they tell themselves. People had way more kids during the Great Depression. It lasted a long time. People aren't having kids because what they are taught.

[@kevinbrisbin4020]

​@@Wade-1well the lack of birth control probably factors in why people had so many kids during that time too 😅.

[@ayekaye8055]

No lol

[@notme1255]

​@@Wade-1 exactly. Plus people themselves are just lower quality these days in their lifestyle, morals, values etc. I can't imagine trying to find a spouse in this disastrous gene pool now.

[@markadler8968]

@@Wade-1 The cost of raising a kid 100 years ago is a fraction of what it is today. Also its not like you had a choice back then on whether you wanted a kid or not because their was no birth control or condoms. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[@GetRichEducation]

Adam looks really bad here. Then he tried to back peddle, looking worse.

[@pierrefab7185]

There forgetting the fact that not everyone is built to raise kids…..We have millions of horrible parents in this world who shouldn’t be allowed to raise a cat, let alone children. PBD only gives you the fairytale

[@helenamuniz5269]

Absolutely,they Ganged up against Adam😂

[@Kymewc]

Great comment hope everyone reads and understands this

[@oesso]

So true. Where Adam fails to communicate is that Selfish is good when in reality it is not. You can be single or with a spouse and no children without being selfish.

[@lopear6911]

Most of the shitty parents are still selfish. That’s the problem.

[@Titanyourbutt69]

The point of the convo clearly went over your empty head 😂

[@cman8798]

The podcast has turned into go against Adam at every chance. Tom is a numbers guy, just stick to numbers and stop trying to side with PBD to score browning points.

[@renzo5282]

exactly

[@nateisinvincible]

Facts

[@pinklovescash]

Agree

[@Sabrina-g1h6d]

I agree, they judge Adam because he’s not like them.

[@longbeach7623]

I’m 41 and just settled down with a woman who’s 31. We’re expecting early next year. It can happen.

[@katkat5871]

Congratulations on your baby. But anecdotes will not be enough. 41 is still too old. At the same time I won’t judge you for that, so why judge the others. Everyone has their own time. PBD and his friends should stop pressuring people to have kids. Kids should come to this world when there are desired.

[@Lithium231]

​@@katkat5871 41 for a man is not too old. My gracious that's backwards thinking

[@denzel1877]

@@katkat5871 Wow you are having a baby! You are so selfless.

[@katkat5871]

@@denzel1877what are you talking about? 😊 I’m not having a baby

[@katkat5871]

@@Lithium231 well sorry that’s my thinking. You do not have to agree. I’m 40 my son is 17. Me and my husband are very happy with him. I don’t want to imagine starting to have a child at this point of my life. I’m equipped and ready to pay for his college and not thinking about anything else. I seen some people working past retirement age because they have kids in college that’s crazy to me.

[@ZachAttack2U]

Adam has no clue what happiness is...

[@truthwarrior122]

Happiness for Adumb is MONEY and Adumb counting all his MONEY.

[@Sam_Iamknot]

Please Mr. Zach; 'Enlighten' us all of what it is of, " Happiness"? Please, my new genius friend; teach me?

[@landonic81]

He thinks it's the giant house that will be just him inside

[@gitoffmahlawn]

Adumb will spend more effort figuring out how to protect his money from his future wife than trying to invest in a life together. He'll be foot out the door before it even starts. That's because in his Selfish AF phase for the last couple of decades, he exclusively deals with h*es.

[@notme1255]

He even goes as far as tearing down other people's accomplishments like Tom simply because he waited longer than the average person to find the right spouse.

[@Frank-qz8ut]

does PBD think that grandkids hang out with their 80 yr old grandpa? yeah maybe they’ll be there on the deathbed but nobody wants to hand out with the old cranky fart. whether u have a family or not, you’re going to be alone. that’s life

[@forman208]

For real, PBD is so delusional in that regard. Even their kids usually just dump them in a home and visit them once or twice a month. Grandkids, especially once they become teenagers, are not going to give a fuck about their 80+ year old grandparent.

[@lks11]

i cant wait til america collapses financially to see what your excuses are for not having children and a failed country

[@smirza921]

Not if you instill the values in your kids the way it should be

[@aisherwasher6959]

Just say you don't like your grandparents... (Most of) my brothers and I love hanging out with our grandparents every chance we get!

[@itsyourboyyy]

Not true. I spent so much time with mine for 35 years of my life. It was amazing.

[@desiprioleau]

People who say it’s selfish not to have kids are the same ones who would never give a second thought to adopting one of the thousands who are already here. Keep patting yourselves on the back for having sex.

[@kimhager3900]

Some of us did both! Adopted my 1st son, then carried my daughter & my youngest son. Many people do both 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@spartanelite6639]

Here to promote my bloodline, not someone else’s. Call me selfish AF, I’ll wear it as a badge of honor.

[@kimhager3900]

@@spartanelite6639 It’s not selfish at all. I 💯% believe you should only adopt a child if you know that you can love that child as your own. Not everyone can or does. One is not right or wrong or better than the other. There’s nothing wrong with wanting your children to come from your DNA, I think that’s natural & if most people were honest - they would agree. I was blessed & wasn’t looking to adopt when my oldest came into my life. I’d never really even thought about it. But from the moment I first saw him I felt a connection & for lack of a better way of explaining it - I just knew he was supposed to be with me. It was instant. It wasn’t until 5 yrs later & I had my daughter that I understood what had happened the day I 1saw him. It was a mother’s instinct. Only I had never been a mother & didn’t understand that was what I was experiencing. I hope you do experience the blessing of raising your own children. People always say this, but it’s because it’s true - It’s the hardest job you will perform, but it is the most rewarding one you could ever imagine. Bonus is that they might give you grandkids one day!

[@spartanelite6639]

@@kimhager3900 well said Kim and agree! We all have different paths to walk! I have a 11 week old baby girl and it’s tough but totally worth it! Heart feels full!

[@silverking6218]

What's worse? Being a bad parent or not having kids?

[@strawberriesncandii]

That’s terrible. If you are having kids for the sake of having kids only to be a bad parent then you should keep your legs closed. Being a bad parent is a whole lot worse because you are bringing a life into this world with the intentions of being a failure. Nobody deserves that. You should have children when you’re financially and mentally secure so you can provide stability for kids to thrive. Having children shouldn’t be a part of a check off list. It’s no wonder Generation Z and Gen Alpha are out of control.

[@OAlexable]

Being a bad parent

[@notme1255]

If you're not going to be a good parent then don't have kids. But if you're not going to have kids then contribute to society in another way, like soup kitchen, charity work etc. If you can't even do that either then you're clearly selfish beyond repair.

[@forman208]

EASILY being a bad parent

[@Thatgirl12-fp3uq]

This comment needs to be pinned at the top!

[@charityscreams5366]

No child deserves someone as self centered as Adam for a parent.

[@notme1255]

Yes. Can you imagine the daddy issues that child would have?

[@charityscreams5366]

@@notme1255 only in my nightmares

[@s1dubbzz751]

So what you are saying is that Adam is correct here. If Adam or any man or woman doesn't want to have children or a family, it's best for society that they don't. I agree.

[@charityscreams5366]

@@s1dubbzz751 what I said was, No child deserves someone as self centered as Adam for a parent.

[@s1dubbzz751]

@@charityscreams5366 Which is what I wrote. "If Adam or any man or woman doesn't want to have children or a family then it's best or society that they don't." This is also beneficial for children in society. So Adam should be commended for being truthful and NOT making babies.

[@deejaylos05]

Childcare is 1.8k a month on avg per child. Who gonna send that kid to public school? So it's an 18 year investment. More than a 50% chance of divorce More than a 99.9% chance you will be put on child support and have to fight tooth and nail for any percentage of custody Unless ur prepared to go to war....trust me...a monthly trip to Tijuana/Columbia/Thailand is so much cheaper and way less emotionally painful

[@olivergreen1520]

It’s not selfish if marriage and having kids isn’t the purpose for someone. As long as someone is willing to make progress in their life they are anything but selfish.

[@duhdoy08]

All i hear my married friends do is complain about their spouse and how they dont have money. I dont want to have that life. Where do we get this absurd notion that marriage/family is the pinnacle of life? People are nothing but disappointment and baggage. Uniting with a person and merging those problems is absolutely asinine.

[@TheXrysali]

you are the perfect example of the sad state of our world... no sacrifice... no meaningful purpose

[@duhdoy08]

@TheXrysali sacrifice = meaningful purpose!? Poppycock! I have meaningful purpose through other avenues other than getting a wife and having kids.

[@TheXrysali]

@@duhdoy08 curious to see what sacrifices you make in other areas of your life. Really curious. A wise man once said “don’t think less of yourself but think of yourself less.” The reality is that most people just think of themselves. The USA compared to many other countries that i visit is in a state of cultural bankruptcy and moral bankruptcy and it’s depressing to be around it. No one cares about community or the other and no one sacrifices for anyone.

[@ChosenPlaysYT]

I have no problem with getting “married”, like committing to a woman, but I’m NOT involving the government. Sorry, it only has downsides.

[@lauriewin9551]

Then it's not marriage. Marriage was never about the government, it's about you, your spouse, and God.

[@ChosenPlaysYT]

@@lauriewin9551 I agree with you. I don’t need to involve the government at all to make it “marriage”.

[@StevenSanchez_95]

@@ChosenPlaysYTthat part 💪🏾

[@Eric-hx2or]

PBD is selling a dream. My lady is a director at a facilities for the elderly. They arent losing business. Most people will end up in some nursing home, a few visits a year from the adult children(maybe). The grand kids wont even bother. Being a 9 to 5'er and having kids is selfish. In this day and age, children are for the wealthy. Its easy for PBD to try and sell the family life. What else is he going to say? 😂 He has never had to deal with modern inflation. I bet you he doesn't know what the average weekly daycare rate is. Most continue the cycle of poverty.

[@gitoffmahlawn]

I'm calling b.s. Walk into anyone's living situation and you will see a home filled with stuff. If you're poor, the home is still full of consumer crap. Every kid has dozens of toys. Every kid and parent has Apple phones, tablets, flat screen TVs. Every refrigerator and cupboard is full of food that is wasted. Anyone can afford life even with inflation, but you have to be smarter about spending it. No one needs this amount of clothing and cheap crappy consumer products. Disposable consumerism has made us numb to accumulating tons of low priced goods that we don't need and will throw out.

[@lks11]

i cant wait til america collapses financially to see what your excuses are for not having children and a failed country

[@ericscott9784]

How are you selfish by not having alot of kids...Some people cant afford a bunch of kids...Some people dont want to bring kids into this fucked up world!!

[@usernameryan5982]

There’s nothing more annoying than a hardcore capitalist who believes in self interest and personal freedom more than anything yet is so concerned with other people not having kids out of selfishness.

[@micon9460]

Ol Tom is a hypocrite ...didn't get married until 40 no kids til 44. Come on dude. I was selfish AF until I was 29 and now that I'm 44 I'm a multimillionaire and not even close to being selfish AF

[@javiervega1065]

Your not a millionaire calm down

[@forman208]

Nice brag on the internet bro lol

[@micon9460]

​@@javiervega1065haha. Keep that poor mindset. I've been one for over a decade

[@alexjohnson3774]

@@micon9460that’s all you have on your rapport is a multimillionaire? Most selfless people don’t bother to brag about wealth. Most selfless people don’t brag whatsoever. Nobody cares if you have money when you don’t even respect yourself enough to give up ur own insecurities

[@almas202]

@@micon9460 what books do you recommend to improve financial wealth?

[@ALee-2DAnimator]

We live in a society where “Everyone Should Do THIS”…. Not everything is for everyone.

[@janelleg597]

Some things are.

[@Phantomplayz]

If you need marriage and children to feel complete, then you will always be incomplete.

[@XYZLMNOP]

The average person shouldn’t be listening to the shaming tactics of the affluent. *THEY* have no clue what people are going through TODAY. The average person is concerned by higher rent, higher food costs, while having a low income etc. *THEY* know it’s bad just like they know how it is to be a fish.

[@BiHuSrcu]

Yet these are the people we are forced to listen to, as soon as they become successful they start scamming us into buying their programs and here they are talking about having kids like they can relate to the average Joe, scumbags!

[@DarkmanXSincere]

Misery loves company. “Have little burdens like US when you can’t even afford yourself and be hAPpyyyy!”

[@pikachu2003]

Adam is 100% selfish, dude wants to club at 40??? Nah man, the dude is lost because he never dedicated himself to someone else like kids.

[@stephtralala]

This conversation is ridiculous and out of order. It's his life and if he's happy then great. There are too many people out there that SHOULDN'T have kids. Who CARES!

[@kungfoochicken08]

We need kids for the future of our civilization. People need to grow up and start making sacrifices for the future of our country.

[@stephtralala]

@@kungfoochicken08 calm down TF

[@Vietmac1993]

​@@kungfoochicken08if you are not putting food on the table or paying college tuition for our children, shut your mouth and mind your own business.

[@kungfoochicken08]

@@Vietmac1993 If you’re not helping build the future of this country, then shut your mouth and mind your own business. We have enough self indulgent people chasing short term pleasures.

[@goodyangie1]

I think Pbd is somewhat wrong here. People are not more selfish these days, people are now owning up to their selfishness and admitting they're not fit for parenting. And that's good, otherwise you'll end up with a lot of emotionally neglected children who go on and pass the burden to their own children. If someone tells you they don't want to have kids because they're not ready, take it for face value.

[@NK-iw6rq]

Adam Sosnick needs to start a family already. Bro is in his 40s.

[@EstelHolguin]

Adam said his parents had “hero making abilities “ 🤣🤣🤣

[@eldosmiguelos]

PBD & Tom relax Telling someone how to live their life is selfish in itself Be happy for people doing good things

[@votdfak]

I've decided I don't want kids. Is it selfish? I know it is, but I think it's fair and it's my personal choice.

[@GirlDadYoutubeChannel]

Hello, I am a Girl Dad of four adult daughters 36, 30, 26 & 24 they are the best gift God has ever given me, they are all amazing women. My children are my Legacy period!!! Life is all about Purpose!!! The problem with most Humans is that they don't understand Service in their youth and like Tom said you don't turn off Selfishness!!!

[@akendon7260]

@@GirlDadKZbinChannel No legacy from having daughters.

[@ljones9841]

I don’t think it’s selfish if you don’t have kids. I have two kids but this world is so “messed up”….why would anyone want any kids in this world? There is just way too much going on and our kids are exposed to so much.

[@liberationxx]

Adam gona be 70yrs old at his kids HS graduation. in my Regional City in Australia we have great great grandparents by that age.

[@JoshPiper]

Hard to justify having kids if you don’t have money.

[@beve83]

This is an American viewpoint. People do it all around the world every day and are quite happy. They make do.

[@alHuwariyunMuslim]

You believe that your genes don’t deserve to continue because of money. Yikes.

[@prima-madalina]

@@alHuwariyunMuslim typical ninja more concerned about having kids than BEING a good father and provider 😂. Bye Tyrone 👋🏾

[@alHuwariyunMuslim]

@@prima-madalina I don’t know what some dude did to you, but you should work that out with him before you start calling people Tyrone for wanting children lmaooo