Vampire: the Masquerade - The Black Hand - Playing the Sabbat Review

[@pedropages6111]

I am currently running a V5 Sabbat game for my best friends, this book and the main V5 Sabbat book have been the most helpful sources in creating my best Chronicle ever! It cut down so much time on research and home-brewing that I am so thankful for.

[@NoHeadsProduction]

I'm pretty grateful for this book. Never understood the decision by WoD to not fully bring the Sabbat into the fold as potential pcs, meanwhile they greenlight projects like Bloodhunt.

[@drmwatson15]

Because they're too busy protecting us from ourselves and don't trust the players enough to decide whats too far morally.

[@verynormalhumans4420]

I like Bloodhunt. It's a pretty fun BR game.

[@qinop]

Me, who has played for the Sword of Caine for at least x20 longer than Cam: *"Get the shovelheads. Just in case."*

[@onemoregodrejected9369]

Cam: You cant solve all your problems trowing in more showelheads BH: *Yes, yes I can*

[@ravenblackspike]

As for the book using "she or they" for Goratrix. I am not sure if this is why; However, the ending "-atrix" in Latin can be translated as "a female who" for instance. The feminine form of Gladiator ("A male who fights with a sword") is Gladiatrix. So it might be that.

[@AGS363]

But Vercingetorix was a male. Maybe further sources can explain what is going on. (Or it was just a mistake, who knows.)

[@khaldounkhelil3679]

A great question and the roots of the name Goratrix was part of our creative debate as authors. Goratrix is the most famous Tremere, other than Tremere. So Goratrix had to be in The Black Hand: Playing the Sabbat but some of their legacy content was based on problematic stereotypes. We had to give players/STs "permission" to reimagine Goratrix without removing their identity. Below I copy/paste our reasoning: Goratrix (she/they): This was a creative decision that had to do with the ambiguous nature of Goratrix’s gender as presented in the Second Edition of the Sabbat and the First Edition Tremere Clanbook. We took a V5 approach with this book and that meant some lore, especially from Clan Novels and Dark Ages books, were reinterpreted or left in the shadows. In the case of Goratrix, some books presented them as a gay character who was deeply misogynistic and keen on pursuing powerful men or men they had power over. Goratrix is castrated in a ritual, eventually betrays their lovers/friends to the Sabbat, and is ultimately possessed by their old lover/master. This didn’t fit into our vision for the character and we didn’t want to delve into the weeds of those older books. In The Black Hand: Playing the Sabbat their gender is not disclosed, but the name Goratrix does imply a character that prefers feminine presentation and the rest we leave to the Storyteller. Perhaps the old stories are crude propaganda concocted by the conservative and patriarchal Tremere?

[@khaldounkhelil3679]

@@AGS363 Yes , its 30 year debate over -trix/-rix. AFAIK, historically -rix is never preceded by a T. While fem names ending in -trix are very common in Latin and other languages. We don't reveal Goratrix's gender or sexuality, but felt that she/they fit them best as I detailed above. I am also a big Asterix fan. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_onomastics

[@ravenblackspike]

@@khaldounkhelil3679 thank you for the clarification. I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

[@JustStripperThings]

@@khaldounkhelil3679 love this!!!! especially the idea of Tremere using propaganda to uphold conservative patriarchal traditions!!!!! absolutely love that. ...and I already disliked Tremere and how he made a clan a pyramid scheme, so this is great confirmation bias fodder.

[@SaintAlexander871]

I’m part of a group on Facebook and no lie the old heads are very into the rules as written. Play as sabbat little. Don’t allow the black hand clans. And absolutely NEVER MENTION THE BAALI….it’s like they aren’t creative anymore

[@Kholan95]

Damn, that sucks. So much interesting lore wrapped around the Baali and especially the Sabbat.

[@thebohemian814]

Hunter the parenting sent me here

[@skeletonking4119]

I truly enjoy this book ! I own an the lasted pdf book, truly an remarkable book however there’s few thing I hope to be in it but sadly it’s not . I may made it myself soon. Thanks you!

[@clairestark9024]

I'd strongly recommend leaning into revised Sabbat. Its just plain better. Graft black hand onto that and allow humanity by modifying touchstones and you're good.

[@lamascaradeprospero7446]

I dont get the Sabbat as a sect. I find two goals in them. One is destroy the antediluvians, the second one is find freedom in the most radical way. But that last one is very strange. Anarchs also looks for freedom. Also, the Sabbat has a strange hierarchy, they are a structure, thats quiet opposite for his goal. And the thing of ignoring the masquerade and humanity seems like something far or displace for the WoD

[@arkaniumprotocol]

The Anarchs what they want is to break away and be free from the Camirilla neo-fedualistic hierarchy, and retain their humanity by just living and instead of a struct Masquerade they would just use common sense to live among humans. The Sabbat want to outright rule over humanity, seeing them as nothing but cattle and revel in their vampire nature. The Sabat also spit on the Masquerade and what it stands for, but keep a low profile out of pragmatism/self preservation.

[@gideonmele1556]

Ditto, the way I figure it is a lot of hypocrisy and self-delusion on the part of the Sabbat themselves. Kindred are hierarchical predators by nature - an order to the Beast’s chaos as well as the ‘That one is stronger than me, I should at least heed/avoid it or die’ not unlike canines. Plus hierarchy and control is natural to both Tzimisce and especially Lasombra, at least they aren’t subservient to some Tremere, Ventrue, or Antediluvian. “We do what we want” is what they tell themselves but even the Sabbat know they have to keep things in the dark from the kine, they may be predators but if enough sheep wake up and fight back they’re screwed. Perhaps it’s just another level of lying to oneself which all vampires do: they’re not human but pretend to be, they are freed from human systems yet must play to kindred politics, they are powerful predators but chained to their domains, Beast, and their prey. The Sabbat are the Cam like the Anarchs, they just tell themselves they’re more different than they actually are

[@M-CH_]

It's ideology/propaganda vis a vis the actual goals. What the Sabbat is actually about seems to be a vehicle for the leaders of the sect to amass as much personal power as they can.

[@wingnoot048]

It's part of what I (and the players who have helped me learn VTM) call the "internal hypocrisy" the both fuels them and keeps them from winning. They espouse freedom as THE first Anarchs that lost the moderates of their ideals during the anarch uprising of the 1400s, turning them into the zealots of Caine. But to ensure that they do not allow themselves the inherent opportunism of a Vampire (backstabbing, lying to allies, and so forth), packs are bound to each other via the Vaulderie and their leaders (which was once two halves, spiritual and war) were then bound to the leader of packs in the same ritual iirc. Freedom for yourself through enslaving yourself to your peers and vice versa. You won't backstab the lick you serve or the one you bunk with and may even choose to save them over finishing a mission. I can go on about how the Vaulderie and its kin rituals could actually be demonic in origin, but because the Sabbat internal religious police (that exist because Demon-worshipping vamps are just... very evil, worse than Sabbat) know how important they are to the Sabbat, so they willfully choose to not look into it.

[@adamrandaustin]

ironically, this, a non-conical v5 book, is by far the best v5 product to date.

[@Nyrufa]

Couldn't help but notice on the DriveThru preview, it has a section in the book talking about 'Safe Play'. Well, to that, I say "fuck you! You came to play a Sabbat game, so you're going to get the Sabbat experience. Now drop your balls and man up!"

[@coreyforbis5612]

I can't find the potence power Juggernut anywhere in the book, can anyone point me in right direction

[@M-CH_]

Fun fact: if Goratrix is supposed to be a Latin rendering of the name, it's feminine.

[@mattm4557]

It’s pathetic that the company wants to dictate what you can play and how you should play. OWOD gave you everything and you decided for yourself. The core V5 book should have included all clans and both sects.

[@Noxims47314]

Agreed.. All its about is monetary or reputational liability, constricted by the modern political climate to be turned on upon a dime if the situation turns sour. self censure is the decay of creative freedom, by limiting imagination.

[@williamglahn]

I guess I am the on man out I never played sabbat and never will for me they are the monsters you are trying not to fall into. And I have been playing since 1st edition.

[@candideoptimism8775]

ok and