Frustrating Champions - What’s The Difference Between “Good” and “Bad”? | League of Legends

[@lillyie]

shaco is pretty much using guerilla warfare in a game of conventional warfare. you can't use the usual tactics against him because his kit and design throws all that out the window.

[@xenobreyden]

Good thing he’s useless

[@dephtcore]

imo shaco boxes shouldnt be able to chain fear people, like fiddlesticks fear it should just deal more dmg if a box is triggered in a certain time after the first box got triggered by that champ

[@lillyie]

​@@dephtcore pros: -pink ward is nerfed cons: -ap shaco would be meta

[@dephtcore]

@@lillyie could still nerf the ap scaling tho

[@ryanpower1291]

My jungler getting mad when I don't walk all the way over the help him with the invading shaco who is just going to jump over the wall and become invisible or just has 3 traps waiting. Like sorry he took your krugs but you're on your own unless he royally messes up this is just a waste of time.

[@gordoteton9830]

3:53 skarner mains choosing seraphine as their most annoying champion is comdy gold

[@Nartanek]

This meme always weirds me out, like jayce created hextech in the first place, caitlyn gun is hextech, vi gauntlets are hextech, blitzcrank is an AI made with hextech. I don't really get why seraphine gets all the hate for using hextech stuff.

[@dlcyKing]

​@@Nartanek because she is the one that knows what's in it and still uses it.

[@Nartanek]

@@dlcyKing That was her first iteration, they changed her story so that she doesn't.

[@dlcyKing]

@@Nartanek yea but people's memory and feelings is from first impressions and then add in everything else with her and since league playerbase is fairly stagnant it will take years for her to be forgiven.

[@Nartanek]

@@dlcyKing Oh riot definitely didn't handle her release well, they tried to make her a real life icon of sort, which i can definitely see and understand why it didn't go well. But this point in particular with hextech and skarner is, in my opinion, the one thing that is not deserved. Like people wanting to hate on her and finding any reason to do so. Besides, her release in LOR was pretty good.

[@ohhHELLBOY]

Most frustrating champ in the game is the one currently beating me.

[@bobyhappy2992]

mood

[@SayShelo]

So all of them accounting different metas

[@ProitoOk]

Yuumi feels frustrating to play as, with and against her, which is pretty impressive, honestly

[@Gabriel_custodio195]

I still think old yuumi would have been fine if they made it so she couldn't regenerate mana while attached.

[@NeuviletteBR]

@@Gabriel_custodio195no, she wouldn’t. Her only and real problem is the fact she is untargetable for 90% of the game. The only reason she is “fine” now is because they nerfed her to oblivion.

[@Gabriel_custodio195]

@@NeuviletteBR yeah, maybe, but enchanters rely on mana regen, so if yuumi didn't regenerate mana while attached, it would give her a reason to deattach, thus making it so she could actually be targetable

[@Underworlder5]

@@NeuviletteBR my idea of fixing this was always one of two things 1: force yuumi to detach if her carry gets hard CCd, with a three second cooldown on her W 2: make yuumi take a portion of the damage her carry takes (this would also have the side effect of encouraging her to stick on marksmen as intended, as sticking on fighters and tanks would just get her killed) not sure how balanced they are, but the problem with yuumi is the safety she has while doing her job. IMO, reducing that safety is the only way to really balance her, since otherwise she breaks one of the fundamental weaknesses of enchanters

[@TheReZisTLust]

Have you tried dark harvest yuumi? Getting like 4 kills a match and having spending gold is nice.

[@ethanbowers9619]

Quick thing of note, Shaco boxes are no longer disabled/triggered by Oracle lense/control wards(7.9 it was introduced, 9.9 they removed it). They are only made visible, meaning unless you can hit it from range you have 0 way to deal with them besides walking around them if they're in a spot you can do that at. Its likely the worst part of shaco, especially as a melee champ. Edit: Also forgot that with the smite changes for pets(13.15), you cant even smite the damn things anymore because they are counted as "pets" so your smite does 20-140 damage so no instant clearing either.

[@octomarette]

That's why he's a horribly designed champion honestly There is no counterplay, you cannot win if he gets ahead unless he fucking walks into your entire team and even then he has a free flash with multiple seconds of invisibility and a half second of complete intangibility that spawns a clone that will AOE fear you while still attacking you Shaco is just plain unfun to play against, and it will always confuse me when people who play him have egos; they're playing a champ that literally doesn't have counterplay yet think they are geniuses

[@kinwong5491]

​@@octomaretteas a shaco player, I am well aware that I am not playing him to have fun, I am playing him to annoy others, and that's the fun part.

[@freeliks]

@@octomarettethe counter play is to put a single defendable control ward down and watch his champion fall apart. That’s literally it. Acting like shaco is some sort of hyperbusted champ is insane LOL

[@santhoshdabbir395]

Even by the same logic as u just said he is forcing you to spend 75 gold every single time if u want to have counter play. And is if u had time to recall between fights.

[@cr4ckhed798]

@@santhoshdabbir395or use a fucking free oracle??? Chem drag turns his champ off and everything one shots the boxes

[@Shadowhunter22222]

9:00 what an absolute pschopath play is that?

[@cesar6447]

I almost threw up to that

[@katamas832]

Bro is literally playing 4D chess with that move holy jesus

[@NhoVahdy]

"The only hit point that matters... is the last one."

[@Shaco.]

I do

[@yourlocalwaifu8601]

Reminds me of pink ward

[@ibrahim5463]

Bold of you to put a frustrating champion in a good category

[@MrGertris]

Bold of you to not separate them in at least 2 categories

[@Taryntheterrible101]

@@MrGertris Because there shouldn't be. Any character with a kit that actively undermines the game's power fantasy is bad. It's unreal that there's even a debate about it.

[@antoshkagamechanle4156]

@@Taryntheterrible101 So any champ that have CC is bad ? So everyone should just play 1 button 1 kill dodge or die ? Thats lame. Collector (the item) is the most unfun and braindead item in game.

[@dominikprager5338]

@@Taryntheterrible101clown ass opinion that was never true, old league was broken as fuck

[@NathanSimonGottemer]

@@antoshkagamechanle4156league is a badly designed game in general because of that, in fact, but it isn’t designed as a game - it’s designed as a sport. That’s why it’s more fun to watch and to theorize about than to actually play

[@mysticfrace568]

"You can't make a medic people can't shoot...." -Vars 2024

[@joserene-t5z]

War Crimes is not a topic I was ever expecting to be part of a League discussions

[@FirstBaka]

So you are new to league I guess, the game is all about war crimes

[@eXecu7or]

I mean, shaco, kassadin and draven are in the game

[@mathijsfrank9268]

In my opinion there is one idea that determines how frustrating a champion is to face. It's the skill it takes for them to outplay you compared to the skill it takes for you to outplay them. Yone is extremely frustrating because he will probably kill you, even if he plays poorly, unless you play it absolutely perfectly (and sometimes not even that). The same goes for evelyn in my opinion. She just needs to get 2/3 lucky kills and if you misposition once you are basically dead without any other counterplay. In this sense most skillshot champions I see as less frustrating. It can be very annoying to get bombarded with velkoz q's, but if you get hit too often it is because the velkoz is playing better than you, same goes for thresh and blitz. However, nautilus might as well be point n click, so that feels a lot more frustrating. In this sense I find yasuo for example a lot less frustrating than yone. Given the yasyo isn't extremely fed with a multi level lead, it will require a good amount of skill for the yasuo to beat you.

[@kaheichan6228]

That’s in essence the point Vars makes, a champion that gives you no agency in how to beat them means there is no amount of skill that lets you beat them

[@cynicle]

Trick against Yone. CC him. He is squishy af. Try Lux or something simple next time if you're struggling. If stun lands, do your rotation, blow him up and repeat. It's unplayable for him. He will have no cs, and a champ like Yone is useless without items/dmg as he has very little utility.

[@shutupMaji]

​@@cynicle wow, I hope this cc trick can be used against other champs too

[@cynicle]

@@kaheichan6228 yes but it's also important to keep in mind that knowledge gains you a lot of agency in league. For eg if you want to force a counter matchup like Asol into Yone, you have to expect to have a shit lane experience. Conversely if you pick Renekton the Yone can't lane. You have agency over how much agency you get. Also knowledge of champs and how to play around them gives you agency, this is particularly important for low elo because you don't have to worry about champ select (play the champs you understand).

[@cynicle]

@@shutupMaji good luck buddy. Keep trying and you'll get there.

[@vaguetheweird46]

I don't normally leave comments like this, but... complete BS that fizz is well designed or fair. Just I'm calling bs.

[@lillyie]

he has the most bullshit untargetability in the game. for vladimir he has to pay a large health cost and for xayah it's attached to her ultimate but fizz's has the lowest cooldown and deals a lot of damage too

[@zacharyhsieh9358]

Any phase ability is bullshit, and he takes it to the next level with how often he gets it. It’s actually so dumb.

[@Ratty524]

@@lillyiefizz does not have low CDs wtf? His E has a 16 sec cooldown at low levels. He has one of the worst early games of any assassin with both that and high mana costs. He doesn’t really become the menace he is unless he’s ahead. He’s fair in the sense that while yea he can outplay you hard with E, the moment that’s down, you have plenty of time to all-in him, especially cause without it his disengagement options are extremely limited (his q relies on a target). It’s pretty easy to play against him when you abuse his bad early game and time your abilities around his kit, whereas shit like Shaco punishes you for interacting with him in any way throughout the entire game and it’s only made up for the fact that even when he has a lead, he scales like shit.

[@tomkycze2620]

@@Ratty524 Nah man. Fizz? weak early game? My man does more damage with Q W on lvl 3 than Zoe with her E Q. This goes to all fookin Mages on mid. He either jumps Q W, you stun punish do a bit of damage he still goes foward with E and at the time, meanwhile you have nothing, his Q W is already back, you dead. If he starts with E he jumps on you, you can basically hope you hit that spell as he can move in that fookin E, if you did like max 300 damage in early levels. If you don't hit that stun spell you are basically dead. He does E whatever ability combo he does after and if you dont flash you are dead. It's just only one posibily that is good for you from all the things he can do. That is a bad champ design. If you just decide to throw spalls from the other side of the lane on him, you won't do pretty much, because he still has that E Q to farm meanwhile avoiding your poking. He will just wait for lvl6 and then basically throw the ultimate with the most fuking broken hit box in the game and one shot you. Maybe not completly, but still enough for you to go pack your things and go back to spawn.

[@Pherim_]

​@@Ratty524If a Fizz is bad, the blame is only the Player's. Fizz is a cactus on the Ass of Most champions on Mid, and the ones he arent, are purely skill matchup

[@GubbiGap]

11:48: Ufff the Ynoe/Yasuo combo was satisfying though! Like yea those champs are annoying but if that was pulled off against me and my team I'd be like "alright you deserve that win" xD

[@dharma4248]

As a shaco support main who plays yuumi when shaco is banned, I feel like this video was a personal attack.

[@gwingcommander]

This one right here officers, arrest this monster. Make them play nothing but melee top vs vayne until they apologize for the what they've done

[@jonaszrybarczyk2227]

I believe the best way to rework yuumi is to make her a shapeshifter. Her abilities change depending on if she’s attached or not. Of course she needs to have something that forces her to detach to use her full repertoire. For example, let her w give shield when she attaches herself to a champion. When alone with a teammate, she needs to be detached to be able to give shield. And make her detached spells have more agency than her attached spells.

[@bogdandavid1185]

Maybe have all her abilities give the adc different passives while attached the way her w gives lifesteal and when she is not attached just have the regular abilities

[@jonaszrybarczyk2227]

@@bogdandavid1185 sooo… just old udyr as a support?

[@bogdandavid1185]

@@jonaszrybarczyk2227 pretty much except with skillshots

[@Pherim_]

Riot basically sweared on God's name they would never made another Champion like this after Jayce. I dont think this is happening, but hey, they made Hwei, so who knows?

[@TylPhumin]

The most frustrating thing to me is, are all those champion (specifically bruiser and adc) who get so much life leech and shiz, they heal and shield and what not, more than enchanters :< while mage life leech is generally not a thing (unless for ap assassins maybe) but yes, i love most, being annoying. shaco is one of them if i fill jgl (sup zoe main)

[@BrontiThor]

Even then, it feels like Riftmaker, the only real tool for mage lifesteal, is wierdly suboptimal because of the melee/ranged split. Also its damage amp passive requiring staying alive long enough to even get the lifesteal in the first place. The only champ that really makes use of it well is Mordekaiser, who is literally just a bruiser reflavoured to use ap instead of ad. Singed uses it too, but he has many other items he wants to build before he cares about it.

[@noahzhellos8344]

I absolutely agree with your takes here. However, I have to really take a second to laugh at how you pulled a dictionary definition, and gave us the most respectful "skill issue" I've ever heard. 1:24

[@gallae]

speaking to your intro, I think the only TRULY "poorly designed champion" in the game at the moment is smolder. he's not particularly frustrating or even difficult to deal with, but making a champion who might as well be a ranged creep for 25 minutes until he suddenly becomes the most important thing in the game is just bad design. he was designed to be "easy" so he's boring, provides no utility, and the only thing he seems to test as a player is your patience at being completely worthless for the vast majority of the game

[@shinrakai]

Pyke is literally my permabanned champion because I hate him.

[@OnyxOblivion]

I can't believe its been 6 years if Pyke already

[@phoenixflamegames1]

@@OnyxOblivionstop making me feel old man😭

[@Ternalin]

Yup, he was made SOLELY for the whiney children that don't want to be autofilled support and his kit is just straight up broken. He is the example of a bad support, as in does not fit the role support is supposed to fill and an overpowered champion that is just a straight upgrade of Thresh. Similar to how Seraphine is a straight upgrade of Sona despite how many people try to deny that.

[@jamesoverbuild9496]

Seeing how like 95% of the shaco clips were from either shaclone or pinkward made me realize how despite how annoying he is, there are not a lot of people who play this champ. Still, seeing their peak gameplay is always a blast and at the same time it shows how really annoying and tilting playing against a good shaco feels.

[@antoshkagamechanle4156]

Lulu mentioned in icons and on thumb. Sad that there is no words about her. The best support in the game in terms of fun utility and potential as enchanter.

[@doctorbr2195]

Well he talked about Enchanters in general

[@rubinrobo2265]

I still think people are overreacting when it comes to Yuumi, her invincibility takes a huge amount of power budget. Also arguing with what she used to do is just wrong because thats why she got reworked…. Yuumi has no hard cc, no huge damage. All she does is heal and shield while hiving small amounts of offensive stats. She is on an Adc which Assassins can 100-0 in the blink of an eye and if there is no one else around she just dies as well. She may be the best at keeping herself out of danger but if her adc has no disengage tools she also can’t bail them out.

[@bibule]

She has root but it’s not really reliable and if she’s cced she’s screwed

[@wraithchronicler5915]

I've always been saying that Yuumi is much worse IO from Dota2

[@xolotltolox7626]

League would not be able to handle IO, they can't even handle Ryze or Shen Ulti or Aurelion Sol stars

[@hqhuy931]

i agree that teemo is completely fair even if he's annoying. With tank warmogs his shrooms are practically useless but if enemies are squishies he feels like the strongest champion to exist. also good that he encourages players to interact with the more strategy aspect of league - playing around vision, using chokes, roaming...

[@pedrobispo5179]

in my opinion a champ is badly frustrating when they fall into one of 2 points: 1 - they break the weakness circle (burst > dps and enchant > tanks > burst) 2 - when one or more components of their kit cheese the game's established ways of achieving it's win condition not by skill, but by merely existing (this is the most commom one) then i categorize they in one of the following groups: 1 - broken: their design can't be tuned to work by concept and it needs to be remade on my opinion 2 - umbalanced: their kit has or lacks one or more components that allows they to be badly frustrating, it would be possible to correct that without a full rework in my opinion 3 - overtuned: just ajusting the numbers would do the job, it's just that i don't think anyone would tune the numbers i would on the broken category, the top spots are: Garen: a completely perfect kit, not a mana user, has infinite life regen, and silence, and move speed with immunity to slows (might as well be a dash), AOE damage, has percent damage reducion and tenacity, and a target AOE true damage execute that can kill you on half health - now you see, none of that would be a big problem (except from his ult, that is broken), if at least he required skill to play, but nope, he's a statchecker, which not only is a spit in the face of anyone who has to learn their champs - yes even shaco - but also means he's ALWAYS overtuned, would totally rework him tryndamere: do i even have to say anything? fizz: is the definition of the category, playful trickster has too many uses, it's a free target dash that makes him untargetable, jumps walls and deals huge AOE damage on landing, u can disengage, engage, run away, set pursuit and so on, having such a strong ability means that most of his power budget is in it, which means the other abilities are way to simple, strong AA, targeted dash, delayed damage projectile, the problem is, he's a assassin, and so he needs all that damage to well... do his job, and here you have a assassin that presses one button and one shots 2 champions with a undodgeable ability (the targeted dash), how do you counter that? he lacks mechanic in a way that makes him broken, the way to solve this would be to weaken playful trickster and rework his other abilities (except his ult, his ult is fine) to add mechanic and counter-play. fiora, gwen, vayne and others: % max health true damage. on the umbalaced category i got: evelyn and zed: they have % max health damage, that's a anti-tank component, they're burst damage champions, they shouldn't have that, that breaks the weakness circle and opens space for they to oneshot anyone - including tanks - on the enemy team if they're ahead enough, i myself as a tank have been oneshoted by fed eves before, it's not fun, notice how nearly no other assassin or burst mage or any other type of burst damage champion has this and they're usually very less annoying to deal with yone: overloaded, on the surface he should be more or less a fair champion if he did not have so much unecessary stuff in his kit, his E for example, why the true damage? he doesn't need it to kill his targets in fact it rarely makes a difference, yet it's there, i myself would remove it and drop it's power budget on his W, specifically his shield, but that's how i would do it, i'm pretty sure there are other ways to simplify his kit without changing how he plays akshaan: i honestly don't think his revive passive is that broken, it is his ACTUAL passive that gets on my nerves, a 3 hit passive with a shield, that gives him enormous early game pressure, while his kit is mostly designed to scale, which means, he easily snowballs, what i would do to him is i would swap his revive passive on his W with his actual 3 hit passive, not only giving players a reason to up his W on lane but also delaying his lane pressure so that he is kinda forced to scale by making his passive mostly useless in the early game pyke: MY GOD HOW I HATE THIS GUY, honestly to me his ult is THE MOST BALANCED PART OF HIS KIT, he's an assassin, a class that doesn't get much if any CC, and this piece of s*** gets a HOOK, a SLOW, a STUN on a DASH, ON TOP of CAMOUFLAGE, and worst of all, AS A SUPPORT, WHY RIOT? WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA? the way i would solve his problems would be to kick his a** out of the botlane and make him an actual assassin, removing the parts of his kit that are there for the sake of being a support, like the extra gold on his ult and the stun on his dash and as overtuneds: irelia: her passive makes so she can build full AD and deal more magic damage than phisical, not hybrid damage, MORE MAGIC DAMAGE, as if she was a AP champ, yone supposedly also has this problem but usually when i build armor for him, it works, for her on the other hand? nope, might as well not do anything what i like to call the "malphite effect champions": pantheon, renekton, malphite (obviously), sometimes aatrox these guys are here because their kits were made with a playstyle in mind (tank and dps in the case of the guys above) but the players build and play completely different, usually burst, bcuz altho that was not the intention, their kits also don't discourage it, pant being one of the worst ones for me, as one single empowered W is enough to oneshot someone while being an target dash with a stun, and then if you're not already dead and is ready to fight back, he just presses E, that would be ok on a fighter but on a assassin it feels unfair lissandra: why is her ult target when cast on enemies again??? that's it, that's my opinion, of course it's not everything but i'm tired of typing

[@Hellothere-ss4jq]

I'll argue against a few: Eve - It's not the max hp damage that makes Eve the tank butcher, it's her MR shred (allure is even mentioned in the video). For a tank you tend to not care about a single instance of hp based damage, it's when it happens over and over again that you start to feel the sting of it. (that's what Vayne, Gwen, Fiora and Kog'maw do) Zed - Following from above, Zed's passive only applies once and that's if you're below a certain health threshold. No way he got a tank to that point on his own (assuming he's not hyperfed of course). It's the least offensive part of his kit for me Other assassin abilities which have some hp based damage are Qiyana's ult and Ekko's W passive, all of which are not major threats to a tank. They are more threatening to battlemages like Vlad, Asol or Swain, HP with not much in the resistance department. A tank did not get one shot because these abilities deal hp based damage, they got one shot because they were too far behind. Irelia - I've been killed by her enough times to know that is flat out untrue, she always deals far more physical damage regardless of game state and opponent. Her passive on hit damage is not what turns her in a 1v5 machine, it's BORK...it has always been. Akshan - His scaling is awful compared to other marksmen, he's designed to not play fair and snowball early; if he fails to, he is doomed plain and simple. His attack speed scaling is notoriously weak and he has to stand still longer than other auto attackers to deal the most damage he can making him a very unreliable ranged auto attack carry. Don't get me wrong, I think he's an overloaded abomination but there are measures in place that prevent him from being Yone levels of cringe.

[@pedrobispo5179]

@@Hellothere-ss4jq it would seem we have fairly different game experiences, as I mentioned in my message, I've been oneshot by fed eves when playing as a tank before, with they dealing 4-5k damage in the span of 3 seconds, I can't see how that's possible without taking the % max health magic damage into consideration, and even if that was not the case, the point of the argument is that giving assassin % max health damage breaks the weakness circle, not because it'll make *every single assassin* a tank shredder, but because it sets a precedent to how they can be designed: they can have tank shredding components on they, and you know Riot, it only takes one 200+ years champion to throw everything out the window. Irelia: I'm sorry, I'm not aware of what BORK means, but every time I get killed by a irelia - even yesterday when I wrote that comment - when I check the damage log, it sets her magic damage at minimum side by side with her physical damage, usually surpassing it by a few hundreds, if I build armor then? Her magic damage can be over double the physical damage. Akshaan: I've seen a pure late game full charged ult from him deal 2/3 of a non tank's health bar multiple times now, just the ult on a full life target, how is he not late game? Oh and for a bit of context, my elo range is between emerald-master, it's where I've got those experiences.

[@FrozenSpaceYT]

@@pedrobispo5179 BORK is Blade of the Ruined King its the Percent health DMG item she builds, its current health but she procs it ALOT with her attack speed, and the lifesteal helps her stay healthy in lane with the q spam.

[@zt7621]

I agree with cycle but sadly any tank wins against dps nowadays

[@pedrobispo5179]

@@zt7621 yea but that's more of a balancing and itemization problem, not the concept of the champions itself

[@Nathan-og7pi]

Playing Jhin/Nautilus into a Draven/Nami lane and having to CS with W exclusively because he won one early trade and came back doing 200+ damage per Auto Attack is certainly a good reason why he's high on my "F*CK this champion" list

[@kereikuc9880]

Sounds like someone cant lane vs a lane bully, skill issue

[@inplane9970]

​@@kereikuc9880It's physically impossible to win against Draven during the laning phase unless the Draven player sucks. There's a reason why his banrate in Masters+ is 30%.

[@kereikuc9880]

@@inplane9970 if u go caitlyn or any long range adc with a slow/stan u can poke him out of lane or if u cant do it make sure he doesent cash out passive stacks and he becomes useless but u gotta counterpick him so and slows basically or pray ur support has a brain and goes sum shit like zyra

[@Pherim_]

​@@inplane9970Nah mate, skill issue. All Draven players have loose screws, they will Tilt if they dont get ahead fast. Just dont fight

[@inplane9970]

@@Pherim_ You're assuming the other ADC doesn't have their whole head loose off their shoulders. The amount of times I see ADCs try to stat check Draven/Kalista/Lucian early game is pure insanity.

[@TheAngelRaven]

I still find it funny how much hate Yuumi gets. I've gotten M7 on Yuumi, Senna and Soraka and I feel like people just don't understand the counter to her. I'm an M7 Shen Support main that encourages Yuumi to be picked. I will HAPPILY lock down their ADC level 2, level 3, level 4, etc. and continue to lock their ADC out of the game. When the game is all about the ADC, Yuumi can't be the issue. Sure, she makes the enemy top laner an issue, but isn't the ADC with reason you win or lose? Yuumi just enables you to have an easier snowball in the bot lane so long as you capitalize on the fact it's 1 person to focus. I prefer old Yuumi because at least the counter item is 800 gold and not a full Serpent's Fang.

[@muizzkazi5432]

POV: Vars just got annoyed by a Shaco main

[@PillowHyena]

I'm maining Smolder ADC this season and my duo is a Shaco AP main. We've had countless games we had only nexus turrets alive, and the Shaco litters our base with boxes to the point the enemy team could NOT get near me or the nexus, even with Soul+Baron+Ancient Drake, getting perma feared to death.

[@torri776]

Wukong is badly designed because he is very, very weak. He can't get buffed because he is a balance nightmare in the higher ranks, especially in Pro Play, but is unplayable in lower ranks. Renekton is at the very least, reliable in Pro but playable in lower elos too. Immense utility notwithstanding from his double whammy of an ultimate which high elo players despise, his damage falls off very hard so he basically has low damage, no CC sans above mentioned, and limited durability from an underwhelming passive. His clone is one of the weakest clones due to how little control you have over it, and his earlygame is shockingly bad, if not subpar. He's in dire need of a rework, though Wild Rift at the very least drastically improved his kit.

[@BoneWalker]

Sounds like you're talking about pre-rework wukong, sans the double ult.

[@BrontiThor]

Personally, I think Riot doesn't know what they want to do with Wukong. If they play into the playful trickster type, then you just have Shaco 2.0. They are also probably hesitant to lean into the Wuju and Master-Yi aspect of his character, because no-one wants a second Master Yi either. His champion fantasy is basically split between two very opposite very unliked playstyles at the same time. Which is why they are probably keeping him weak because they realized that he is a problem that they don't really want to deal with.

[@Blu_Moon_Owl]

Another aspect to look at is cooldowns for abilities. Like for Shaco his Q feels like its always ready even after using it meaning he’s always ready with an escape or sneaky counter attack before you can react Also I still don’t get all the hate for Yuumi. It incredible how a cute little cat broke the community

[@mysticfrace568]

"Hold your fire! It's just an adorable lil..." Yuumi.

[@dlcyKing]

She can't be targeted until her host is dead, slap that on a beefy diver that just picked up fat bounties because she griefed botlane to create an unstoppable monster that heals when cced, has poke, extra ms steroid and can root your entire team.

[@euqinemor]

@@dlcyKing Yummi can no longer root pepple on her ult, only slow, it took them a whole year to make that change.

[@simonepiroddi3916]

The hate mostly come from her old kit

[@luk6997]

I hate her because she is annoying to play against since if she just stays forever in the strongest of her team and they already have good sustain theres nothing you can do. She makes her adc be single target so I always win against her in lane and its hell being her adc and she is the most borin champ to play as. Theres nothing positive about her

[@snolls105]

in my opinion, more than any one champion, league's systems can be really frustrating. I really hate how long the respawn timer gets late into the game. especially if a game goes long and especially with the game's damage creep. I think the single worst thing a game can implement into itself is something that prevents you from playing the game, especially for an extended period of time. So, having a mistake being punished by kicking you out of the game for a full minute isn't fun. It's especially not fun when you're facing an enemy that snowballs by killing you repeatedly. Like, I'm pretty sure we've all had at least one game where it felt like more time was spent waiting for your character to respawn than was spent actually playing the game. I also think non-utility characters suffer in this regard way more than utility-oriented characters because if your name is Irelia or something, there's very little you can effectively do in the game if you are way behind, so you functionally don't get to play the game. Support is more or less the only role that manages to avoid this issue because utility is the one thing in the game that doesn't really need to scale to be useful. Like, even referring to enchanters, a major reason why they "scale" late-game is because most enchanters have kits that are just stronger when they're given more people to work with (on top of actual scaling). Like, a big reason I like Thresh is because no matter how much you fuck up, you can never really be knocked out of the game. Like, you can absolutely bomb laning phase, fuck up the mid-game, and be the most pathetic man in the world and even then, you're still able to exert just enough pressure that it's possible to accomplish something meaningful without, like, giving up on the character's main power fantasy, and I really wish that curtsy was extended to the majority of the cast.

[@MaverickMyth]

I think that if they made it so hard CC would dismount Yuumi from whatever Champion shes riding on, and lock her out of remounting for a short duration, she would feel way more fair.

[@Arob4343]

My most frustrating champions are usually ones that don’t scare me except that I know my team with feed them to the point of being unkillable, before I ever encounter them. Things like Yi and Kayn

[@scl0074]

Look most of this video I can agree with but Fizz is BS no question. Due to the nature of his playful trickster despite it having downtime you can't punish the use of the ability at all considering he is immune to even turrets during it. But on its own its not an issue but due to Zonyahs existence and it likely not getting removed anytime soon as well as the overwhelming abundance of haste on items he can use Playful trickster, Stasis, then Playful Trickster again in 1 rotation which no matter what way you cut it is just not good.

[@SunsetsTerrace]

Tyler's face at 11:12 watching this abomination will never not crack me up

[@Peyton-f8m]

No..... Most issues in league are raw number issues. Even the worst designed champs like yuumi and shaco would have 10% of the hatred towards them if they had such small numbers that they had nothing useful. If you nerfed yuumi by 50% across the board she wouldn't be hated by the enemy team, but by her own. Same for shaco. If he had no damage, he wouldn't be able to jungle. He would be the worst solo laner. And his niche as support would be his boxes as wards. He would be a peeling scout tank more than an assassin. The issue with league is why I hate fizz. I hate champs that can eat my entire kit 8 times but 1 rotation of theirs ends someone. It's toxic. It's annoying. And he goes invulnerable on a 2 part dash aoe that slows and has high base and ratio. Plus he has another dash and a ranged aoe knock up slow nuke. Damage resistance. And a 3 part paragraph on his resetting and refunding auto reset dot.

[@AinzV1]

I find every single manaless top lane champion to be a pain to play against but those who have some way to passively regen hp on top of not needing mana are even worse: garen, morde, sett are my top bans for this same reason. You just lose the resource battle instantly

[@HoneyBanev]

just pick vayne or akshan bruh

[@Underworlder5]

so you struggle with the most kiteable champions in the game. maybe not fight a battle of attrition against bulky statcheckers

[@arkokroeger9799]

Some champs dont need to have some annoying gimmick to play around btw. My personal choice for "most frustrating champion of all time" would go to the windshitters, simply for how extreme their kill pressure is. "But they are skillexpressive because they dodge skillshots with their dashes" dude what the hell are you talking about, they use their ult and then two shit on me simply for the fact that i am playing asol. From my perspective, they are stat checkers once they come close to me. Like, even the other laners have zero chance against a yasuo with 2 items. Why are they allowed to have so much cc with their damage output? *Sigh*

[@simonepiroddi3916]

Honestly after lethal tempo was remuved only yone seems yet unfair to play against, yasuo has achived a state of good balance imo

[@vBurnedWins]

kind of an asol problem since he is a stat checker, he has ryze and aurora range and damage but not their mobility while dealing it

[@BrutalSalamander1]

I'd also argue that dodging becomes less skill-intensive if you have a dash. Dodging an ability become easy-mode if you have dash compared to side-stepping.

[@BrontiThor]

I think Yasuo has become less of a problem overall because back in the day only a few champs had dashes, now we are effectively playing league of dashes. His playstyle is still one of the more mobile, but he's no longer a massive outlier. Yone is a problem because he basically has every tool he needs to work and more. I don't see that changing unless they decide to rework him, which honestly is never going to happen.

[@maybe3241]

Asol hard counters yasuo and goes somewhat even vs yone.

[@Nartanek]

Leblanc is the worst champion in the game, she can one shot anyone but tanks, she can escape anything, is ungankable, she can even come back to her original position if you flash to follow her. She is the worst, impossible to catch bs

[@hqhuy931]

and she's currently one of the weakest mage in mid because of how high ranged damage/traditional tank carry everyone is playing. She gets bullied out by trist/corki and shut down if there's any bruiser on the enemy team. seems fair to me

[@Bluebird-fd9rt]

champ is zed but ap and has more mobility, has hard CC and is unironically overturned rn

[@Nartanek]

@@hqhuy931 Every time i see her she is fed beyond belief and impossible to kill, is she is on a losing lane she can gank bot or top to win anyway, she has every tool in her arsenal to make the game impossible for the other team. What you say sounds more like you're not good with her.

[@misteryjeux]

​@@hqhuy931Tristana is literally one of her best match up,she's one of the only mages that can play into marksmen and never get killed (you can't gank her too as long as she is decent) and the corki lane is perma handshake where no one can push (or die )the other and it's about who roams better

[@hqhuy931]

@@Nartanek as one of said tank abusers, id say i find dealing with her to be quite easy. it is frustrating to have a fed leblanc on my team, though, since she doesn't really provide a lot of team support

[@Sketchchess07]

with shaco, I would pull the lens back one step further and concede that yes, he is designed perfectly for what he was made to do. but I would argue that having a character that is designed explicitly to make the player mad is a bad choice in 99% of scenarios. Some games do this well, but those are rage games, games that are explicitly designed to be frustrating (and there's the other exception of Undertale, the only game I can think of where it explicitly wants you to stop playing). Bringing someone like shaco into the mix means that as soon as he's picked, the new goal of the game is to just piss the enemy off, which he does exceptionally well, like you said. But League wasn't meant to be a rage game. Shaco isn't designed poorly as a kit, he's designed exceptionally well. He's designed poorly from the wider lens of game design as a whole.

[@ThundererR64T]

Sometimes i think to myself if i'm actually more efficient than riot devs that develop abilities, fixing yuumi is so easy, what's her problematic ability?? W. Whats problematic about it?? Immunity as an enchanter. Now you have an easy way to fix it but not completely remove it, make it have a duration appropriate to it's cooldown (ex: 5 seconds on a champion, 9 seconds cooldown after doing so) Easy process, whats problematic on a champion? x ability, whats problematic on that ability? x mechanic, is there a way to fix that mechanic without removal? yes = fix it, no = rework. That thought process is really a good tool to have, and i'm pretty sure rioters try to use it but fail, i seriously hope that the dev team becomes better at balancing abilities, seriously.

[@resrrasg8881]

I think shaco is a great design for what it trying to be, just a wrong game lol (higly competetive) There shoud be a game that alows you to exlopre diffrend themes and character fantasy, and make intresting situations to play out (like in combat), for example world of warcraft classic have cool class desighn, each class has a porpuse in the game, like making food with mages, being good at tanking in pve for warriors or griffing enemy faction as rouges, i hope raiot mmo will be as fun and interactive as wow with classes and themes of lol

[@dylanfarris7647]

If a champion makes the majority of players frustrated then it’s not well designed. Games should be fun not annoying

[@weaselbun]

My friend is convinced that Fizz players cheat from how hard he can hit a lich bane QW, but I play him all the time and go "nah, that's a normal amount"

[@Liger-Inuzuka]

"Look at Aurora, I can begrudgingly admit they took steps to make sure she isn't BS to fight against." You lost me there pal.

[@solomontor5103]

naw fr shes so bullshit top lane

[@themonkeys96]

Her stealth has an extremely clear cast animation that indicates where she is at the end of it. Yes, her ult makes her elusive, but not much more than that. She can be slippery, but that's all the name of being an evasive skirmish.

[@c.j.8263]

@@themonkeys96 her being overtuned has created the illusion that her kit is frustrating, when really the main problem is her overtuned numbers.

[@luk6997]

shes not really frustrating. I play against her every 3 games at least and never I had her being annoying

[@ConfettiBerg]

She's not that frustrating...

[@AfricanSpearhead]

I already hate invisibility as a mechanic but the fact the Shaco can just magically appear in front you out of nowhere is just ridiculous. Other champs that do things like this at least give you a warning that youre about to get jumped like Rengar for example. I love Neeko's take on camouflage because i punishes you for bot paying attention, but rewards you for not falling for her deceit.

[@sarmonnimuras4138]

6:39 heavenly shot

[@etizel99]

For me personally the difference between good and bad frustration is just between if they are simply overtuned or overloaded. For example something like evelyn is in my opinion frustrating because she has way too much dmg rn but otherwise she is quite fair to play against. Where as something like "insert showmaker copypasta" is frustrating because he has practically everything on the face of the planet. Weirdly enough I dont find something like shaco annoying (I am a lee sin main so that changes my opinion), just because when shaco played well, feels like you just got outplayed. Of course if lethality shaco is strong, then god have mercy but I feel like that goes for every ad assassin. Note that I haven't watched the video so I don't know what he is going to say just so I can give my own opinion without any outside bias.

[@kikikillian1208]

The smash bros theme in the background kinda distracted me halfway through xD

[@Shaco.]

Yes.

[@qrowok1104]

A ranked game against a shaco smurf is why I quite the game. Got a really bad leash and he stole my blue and got away for free with q then stole red doing the same thing so I just quite the game. Until his q is gone I won't be back

[@YuletideGlory]

As a Bot Main, Yuumi has actually become one of my favorite supports, and the reason is because she's forced to match my playstyle to her own detriment. If I'm playing safe, Yuumi is too. If I'm playing aggressive, so is Yuumi. If I'm zipping across the map with Quinn to gank top, Yuumi is coming with me. If I'm getting set up for a sneak attack with Twitch, Yuumi is right there. As for an enemy Yuumi, I don't find her frustrating because I always prioritize the adc anyway.

[@max-potato-muncher]

Yuumi is basically a TF2 medic who is constantly in ubercharge as long as he is healing with his medigun

[@coolboy9979]

Any often/long invis is frustrating. Trynda is frustrating, but you can see him, you know what he can do and will do, he is very predictable. Have fun playing vs a strong eve that is everywhere and nowhere and can oneshot the tanks

[@Nipa96M]

I wouldn't say that Lulu is good here. In a sense yes she can get killed "easily" and I very rarely ban here, but she is problematic. She has crazy shields to protect her carry, but if she gets focused she turns herself in to a tank instantly. Also you can be as fed as you want, but once you get turned in to a rodent none of that matters. I find her very difficult to win in 2v2 if she is piloted by good player. Luckily 90% of her players are not that talented. I think Milio is every way the better version of her and actually would be good annoying

[@NocturnalPyro]

Personally I think that the state of cc and how getting hit by any type of cc currently basically means you're just dead is bad design, honestly it wouldn't be so bad if one, there wasn't so much damage in the game, and two if getting chain cc'd wasn't as powerful, I've thought for a while that Riot needs to implement a form of diminishing returns system for cc, meaning that hitting someone that is currently under the effect of another cc, not only cancels that cc and making a short gap where if you are doing something like spamming flash you'd be able to flash in that gap, but also make the ability you cc them with last for a shorter duration, this would mean that the best course of action would to cc multiple people to get the most use of the abilities. Also Chaining cc should have an absolute cap of something like 6 seconds, where after 6 seconds have elapsed any ongong cc will instantly end and any subsequent cc's will apply the shortest possible cc duration of 0.5 seconds regardless what ability it is, and they should also combine Tenacity and Slow Resist into one stat, cause there's so many omnipresent slows in the game right now that it's honestly almost worse than a lot of harder forms of cc, and Tenacity doesn't do anything to a slow that's constantly re-applied, so combining them would rectify this problem, either that or make it so that you can't re-apply the same slow to a target already affected by that exact slow.

[@Necxuz25]

I just want Riot to delete Zilean

[@blueshell4971]

If Evelyn R didn't exist I'd consider her fair, her passive and W are still unfair imo but the fact that her is the freest burst and or disengage is just mind blowing to me

[@FTWMFXD]

What's great about shaco, is he's really only an early game champ. If he can't do anything early game he WILL fall off. Just so happens more people don't play like he's in the game letting him get ahead. In the old meta I would say shaco is the bad frustrating because he did decent damage and could leave. Now he HAS to one shot or be one shot.

[@TheArrowofLight]

Would honestly just want untargetable to be removed from all basic skills. Make it less annoying to deal with not have someone just negate the damage of a combo on a basic skills cd.. We don't need spammable untargetable in league. Even if it is on a few champions like Fizz, Yi, or maokai it'll make them less irritable for the players facing him.

[@Bark_743]

I agree. I used to ban Morgana a lot but when I switched to another support and had to ban a certain vhamp that made my life impossible I learned to play against her and now I don't care if the enemy support is a Morgana. She's still pretty annoying and she still has way too much cc for her own good but I think she's somewhat fair. If she misses it gives me an opportunity to shut her down. She's annoying but balanced somewhat.

[@FirstnameLastname-gr5kb]

Her q is a straight skill shot and for r, she needs to get in range. She doesn't have super much cc, just very long cc. But the q is slow and can be side stepped and if she Ults, she's close to you and as a sup, may also be easy to burst (relatively easy as she's still tanky with high base armor and 20% quasi-Omnivamp)

[@Bark_743]

@@FirstnameLastname-gr5kb She can still cc chain you for more than 5 seconds by herself. And she has way more dmg than most supports. But yes her q being easy to dodge if you see it coming is one of the reasons I stopped banning her.

[@SpookSkellington]

As frustrating as people find him, AP Shaco is the only champion left that can make me go "that man is operating on another level" whenever he does some crazy play.

[@NathanSimonGottemer]

The difference between PvP games in general and MOBA games is that the latter are designed such that the way to win is to deny opponents agency. In general, games can be designed to prevent this and have victory be achieved by outrunning or outwitting your opponents, but MOBA games inherently allow and in fact encourage this toxic dynamic and will therefore always be more fun to watch than to play imho

[@jonahallcorn]

Good frustrating: there is counterplay, but it's somewhat unconventional Bad frustrating: there is no counterplay, or the counterplay in question is very niche and forces you to play in a way that isn't fun.

[@Peter-zg3em]

i think all lane bullies fall into this category. you're supposed to feel like you cannot do anything early. it's frustrating. but slowly they lose their value. it's a good frustrating. you have a delayed reward system, or a practical loss condition. either you catch up and take over late, or you get behind early and don't have an answer for it. i think a frustrating kit has no real end game. it's fun for one person. they need to ultimatley remove these from the game. yumi, teemo, shaco, etc. these make you want to shut the game off. lane bullies make you want to take the bully down a peg. big difference.

[@AlryFireBlade]

The reason why I hate evelyn? Invisibility yes, but it would be good designed if you just had to dodge her first Q shot, so she can't proc her W. For some reason Riot said the reactivations of her Q that are AUTOAIM can proc her W too. So you dodge her Q and you still get CCed end killed because you can't dodge autoaim with most champs. Oh yeah and with 3-4 Items (Shadowflame, Magic pen Boots) She has so much Damage and Flat Magic pen, that she don't need the MR Reduction of her W to kill Squishys. So she comes Invis, and 1shots you in under 1 sec without any warning. They should drasticly reduce her Damage, and put a damage amplifier on her W like Ahri once had on her E.

[@theta1672]

Personally, I still to this day hate Yasuo's wind wall with a passion. It is absolutely BS that he can just nullify any and all projectiles as long as it's up. Autos? Of course. Basic abilities? Certainly! Ults? Yea why not, let him do everything! This with his otherwise pretty strong kit and not having a resource bar that keeps him in check still make him the broken bs he is. (Yes, I'm around silver-gold tier, thanks for asking xD)

[@aldroydf35]

as a evelynn main, yes it's very good to frustrate others and being called everything you can think of

[@koozyp714]

where's the graphic from at 2:43 ?

[@beetle__bug]

i just randomly thought of something since you play Master Duel too, what deck do you use? kind of curious if it's one that I personally see as frustrating to play against

[@Kenrick23]

Aww damn, you're using Sakurai's characters he uses for his videos to edit the video. Kudos

[@javelinmaster2]

One another kind of frustration are stat checkers. Just look at what happens when Nasus plays decently. He will get enough stats and then violate the ADC with his stick while the ADC can't do crap about it because Nasus has to much health and his wither deletes your damage even further and makes kiting obsolete.

[@SKsuprakirby]

Playing Against Shaco as Leona is a pain in the ass, you literally can't kill the boxes because their activation range is almost DOUBLE your AA range. you HAVE to face tank them or avoid them at all. at least, barely anyone plays Shaco support so i don't have to deal with that shit too often. Also Fuck Fizz

[@pit2559]

My biggest problem is that melee champs can't disable Shaco's traps, Teemo's shrooms can at least be removed with oracle lense, Shaco's traps can only be avoided

[@johnmcconnell7052]

As a teemo main yep I gotta agree because teemo is balanced he's rarely touched on yet everyone still hates him meanwhile as a teemo I see shen and go ok I have to kite I see mord ok I gotta bait I see singed and go well I hate my life now but even singed is balanced. Shaco I swear if you become a one trick you can climb higher than you should

[@draculemihawk10]

Unpopular opinion but Gnar is also badly designed,at least for a top laner I mean he is ranged,has slow,can leap away and the worst thing is that Mega Gnar is basically unstoppable bc he statchecks the entire top lane(nobody can convince me that a champion that can delete half the HP bar of a level 2 Garen with one ability is healthy for the game)

[@Brawndy]

I don't see it that unpopular just because "range" but also as a gnar main I've seen plenty of times how you basically take advantage of the other laner "respecting you too much" cause, if you're mini gnar, you have the bulk of an enchanter (almost) and every champ with a stun like sett or renekton would have either more damage or simply a better early than you, (in particular sett can just cancel your E and you have no other option than to lose almost your entire health bar and then the ult counters your bulk), ironically most of the "Stat checkers" can destroy you if you get caught, perhaps garen would be easier than other "similar" match ups, I have to agree with that

[@skelet8337]

Nah gnar is not that bad is hard to kite with him because even if he is ranged it is low range I think is 425 if I remeber.

[@Brawndy]

That's part of the things that makes him not that difficult to play against, champs like darius, morde, illaoi, camille, etc, that has a way to get to him would ussualy burst him with no much difficulties And mega gnar doesn't really "Stat check" that much unless youre already low by poke or something, all in as mega gnar into real Stat checkers is a risk (I had mention some examples already, and include nasus)

[@draculemihawk10]

@@Brawndy Dude Mega Gnar erases half of Garen's HP at level 2 and you tell me Camille can outdamage Mega Gnar? Mega Gnar is also tanky af

[@Brawndy]

@@draculemihawk10 usually unless the gnar is low (or you are, Darius/sett) you are not suppose to really fight him in mega, camille can catch you with E and kill you with no mutch effort really when you're mini (I need to clarify that is not one of my most problematic matches but, camille usually has a very positive wr against him) And... About garen, you perhaps are able to do that, but as garen you can start healing with passive and potions, wait till lv6, and your r will shred half of gnar's health bar, really, I considered more like a skill Match, a little positive to gnar

[@thrahxvaug6430]

Honestly I still see Shaco as a well designed champ for the most part. I still completely agree that Shaco is the second most annoying champion in all of league of legends. But it would only take a small number of changes to make him just that tad more fair while still keeping his batshit insane guerilla warfare playstyle. Getting as much out of Shaco as a Shaco main like Pink ward does takes A LOT of skill. But Shaco also still always has things you can do to deal with him. You just have to think outside the box as much as a Shaco player needs to at higher levels. I still call him the second most annoying because. The most annoying is Yummi. Like you said she hardcore breaks a fundamental rule in the game. If you out think the Shaco you kill the Shaco or force him off the map for awhile making space on the map. This same thing is true for literally every champ in the game EXCEPT YUMMI. If I wanna stop Janna from healing and shielding her team. I kill the Janna. If I want to Stop a Yummi with half a braincell and hands in a team fight. You will have to kill LITTERALLY EVERYONE ON THE ENEMY TEAM just to stop her from playing. The most effective tactic you have to stop Yummi is killing the person she is on first then trying to catch her mid flight. So a whole champion is in the way of you stopping Yummi at all times. Yummi's ability to survive is equal to whoever she is sitting on top of.

[@demonderpz7937]

I disagree with your statement about Aurora. Her design is absolutely fine but her damage is insane right now and her armor scaling is nuts, which wouldn’t matter much against mages but as a zed main it feels unplayable. At level one a single q does 3/4’s of my health while I have to hit 7 naked q’s to get the same damage, and if she goes rod of ages first item by level 6 she has more armor than I do as a melee character, still hits like a truck, and my q’s tickle her for negligible damage. The only counterplay is to dodge, stay super far back, and use w + q off CD and even then all it takes for her to equalize 14 rotations of abilities is to just land 2 of hers

[@nikoladondukov4274]

the best videos always

[@anubisschatten5103]

Evelynn is easy to shut down? From my experience, a fed Evelynn is one of the worst sights especially because she can just R out of every bad situation. It takes the CC of a whole team to root her long enough to kill her before she can blink into safety while many other assassins can’t rely on untargetability paired with a blink into invisibility and health regen.

[@saikebonexe9547]

Good, now we only need "the most frustrating champions to play" to make up for this video.

[@minichad5456]

I personally think that shaco (especially AP) plays more like a specialist than a assassin

[@davidvyhnalik4993]

Is the scene shown in the beginning a series ? :)

[@AtltheV]

It's very simple, if when losing to this champ A LOT but you find yourself saying "you know what I should've thought about that, it's my fault" then they're likely objectively a healthy design. If a champ wins despite you literally taking into consideration EVERYTHING and being mechanically better then... 80% of league's champ pool lies in the latter 🤑

[@pusheengaming2277]

The いらすといや clip art is goated

[@shadetail]

I love playing against Shaco. I wish other ppl had as much fun against it as I do.

[@Barracuda5055]

Highly disagree with Lulu being "good frustrating" when she can literally hard CC me into uselessness by point and click me with polymorph. If at least this ability was in a champion that needs to channel in order to do something (like Fiddlesticks with his W and ult despite having his Q), but Lulu? With 3 point and click abilities that prevent you from playing the game? Nah man.

[@resrrasg8881]

I think it would be fun if you did the same thing you do with leage to world of warcraft, i myself have basic knoladge of the game myself its fun

[@GuardianGrarl]

Me on ARAM whenever my team loses (especially if am playing as Braum): You Rift babies don't know a thing about frustration.

[@pokefriend123]

The answer is simple. The most frustrating champion is Towers, and Yone. Both are unavoidable true damage map objectives that the whole team has to focus their life on. The only thing worse than terminal cancer is Yone and even he can never be cured.

[@johnsmith-ol9qj]

Whats crazy about shaco is all you have to do is ignore him. Chasing him, just like singed leads to nothing good.

[@kawaineko1626]

Actually shako's Q is THE STRONGEST basic ability in the entire game and it's especially noticeable after aurora's release Shako has Flash+3.5 sec of total invisibility+ very short cd, while aurora's W has decent cast time 1-1.6 invis + long cd and still feels kinda strong I think shako's invis is totally unfair for a game like lol and should be reworked in a some way

[@lout9231]

As a jungle main I hate shaco not because of having to fight him but because it’s impossible for your team to respect him. I spend the whole game pinging where he will be and telling low health allies to recall but it’s always to no avail - he pops up, E ignites and I get told jungle diff despite getting objectives/ganking another lane and aggro pinging where he is. Thank fuck he scales like ass though

[@DeViceCrimsin_]

So, he think's frustrating champs like shaco are good champs. Because like shaco, it makes people not want to play the game... Touche. But also... fk u, lol!

[@lignox7570]

I much prefer ap shaco mental warfare than ad shaco / evelynn "hehe i one shoot you from invisibility in 0.3s"

[@SimpleReally]

I choose vayne because regardless of 0 skill or 0 gold, spammable invisibility, resets and infinite chasing will never not be stupid.

[@koopakape]

There is literally no difference, I completely depends on the person and personal bias/ who they or their friends play themselves and are thus "acceptably" annoying

[@Germany2000kid]

"Technically" Yuumi cannot heal her ally without interacting with the enemy. She would have to use her ULT to do that. At least new Yuumi

[@juliogomez2534]

Yone was a mistake

[@charvisaur4184]

A friend and I would get into debates about this all the time. He hates warwick because Warwick is an easy champion that does what his main does (Yone) with less effort. I main Rengar in the jg, and he also gets countered by Warwick, but I don't hate him because Warwick has so much counterplay. Even if Warwick beats your champion there's things you can do to shut him done if you're the better player. Rengar can toss bola at him to turn off his W movespeed, save emp W for the fear/ult. Use minions+bushes to kite warwick and take short trades until he can be bursted down, ect. I hate Akali because I mostly play Volibear in toplane. She literally takes all agency away from you. She pokes you with Q when you try to farm . You can try to dodge Qs until she's out of energy, and engage on her... but then shroud stops Voli from landing Q or W. And it refreshes her energy. You can't engage if she has energy becasue she just disengages with E and then rengages when your Q timer runs out. She can punish Voli for the tinest mistake and kill him, but Voli has to pray Akali has an aneurysm or presses her button incorrectly before he has the chance to do anything. It literally feels like my skill at Volibear does not matter. All that matters is if the Akali can manage not to mess up. And only after the akali messes up does my ability to capitalize on that mistake matter. The ball is 100% in her court. My friend loves akali because Yone vs Akali is an interesting skill matchup where the better player on either side wins. Much more fun than fighting a stat-checker like Warwick.

[@FirstnameLastname-gr5kb]

Akali is still fair because her early is admittedly relatively weak

[@charvisaur4184]

@@FirstnameLastname-gr5kb Her early is weak into matchups where her enemies can actual interact with her. If your champ can't, she's extremely oppressive.