Slayers: The Class With ZERO Counterplay? | League of Legends

[@ilewdlolis939]

"You're dead, I'm alive. See? *Balance* "

[@tatzecom]

The cycle of life and death continues. We will live, they will die.

[@MrBubbabolly]

Thanks Akali Gaming.

[@vinaayagamkarunagaran3439]

Talon was saying the truth about assassins all along : Live and die by the blade

[@kfkf6569]

If u run u wont see me stab u !

[@shamrockgaming9505]

Yo me too

[@JackRackam]

As someone who plays a lot of ADC, this video has awoken some strong feelings in me

[@10ReasonsWhy]

As a SP main, I feel the same when my adc dies before i even cast an ability.

[@juanrosales7642]

@Jack Rackam I never expected to see your channel around here lol

[@NuclearWaffle0]

You're the last person I expected to see commenting on a league of legends video Jack xD lol. Also love your videos! 😅

[@JackRackam]

@@10ReasonsWhy Just gotta think harder /s

[@JackRackam]

@@juanrosales7642 I'm everywhere 😎

[@Okami400]

The fact that the counterplay is hoping they are bad, says alot about those kinds of champs.

[@Motleydoll123]

the issue for slayers is if they made 1 champ or item to purely counter slayers, it would be a feast or famine item. and likely slayers would pick it up anyway to kill the other slayers. so riot kind of made themselves into a hole they cannot easily get out of without a big game rework. like LITERALLY CHANGING HOW THE GAME IS PLAYED, which is a problem.

[@loljakkon]

my buddy whos bronze and never plays picked up xin in a plat game and popped off cause hes just that busted, fun example lmaoo

[@imnaoe]

I feel like you missed the point a bit. The counter play is outplaying them which implies that they are worse than you. It's an expression of skill. The game becomes very boring if all champs get countered by a singular function be it an item or whatnot. It makes it resemble rock paper scissors which takes away skill expression in the piloting of the game. Also something else not mentioned within this video is that, coordination is the key to beating these champs. There's a reason why fizz/talon/katarina are not played in pro. Because their counterplay relies on others especially for some classes, this makes them very popular because they can "solo carry". Solo q is very volatile and often times people won't be playing properly which snowballs them into oblivion.

[@Okami400]

@@imnaoe I think you missed the point lol.

[@imnaoe]

@@Okami400 please explain why

[@blastingsmite4533]

There is counterplay, just uninstall LoL

[@samuelvp07]

I tried but just like a GA it is only a question of time before you come back to the fight just to get blown up

[@pmathewizard]

Well there is another one. Bad ISP with bad connection

[@arigatameiwaku]

@@N12015 i just play norms on lulu because i like her russian voice over.The game is fun in itself,it's just that ranked makes you stress to much on your performance

[@fireemblemaddict128]

If you want to play marksman, do that. Play marksman in a different game. Just not in league haha

[@definitlynotdoggo]

That was the best counterplay. Don't have to deal with the worst balance team in the world. Can only recommend

[@toros7983]

If I kill Ornn does that make me a 'slayer'? Asking for a friend.

[@rsfakqj10rsf-33]

He can buy brawler in 3 min and block 60% of your damage while constantly dealing percentage health magic damage every skill rotation

[@rohitsriram2175]

May I know who is this friend

[@eduardocarvalhonascimento1502]

@@rsfakqj10rsf-33 you didnt get the joke son.

[@anivia6351]

Brother, please. Don’t.

[@curser63]

Disrespect the goat and you disrespect me

[@blame7121]

Ah, yes.. Immortal Shieldblow to protect ADC from burst... Also Yasuo and Yone: "this is my favourite item!"

[@jeanalvarez7051]

And irelia too

[@DeyonOttervenBur]

Why.. why the f are melee fighters' items nerfed for ranged champs, but items for ADCs have their full power on melee champs?

[@santumi2298]

And then boom, nerf, no "hey we'll just make this item 50% less effective for melee champs like we do with every melee item for ranged champs," we'll just remove all of ADCs potential survival against burst.

[@slashhack1463]

@@DeyonOttervenBur I think that is quite balance especially most skirmishers have easy gap closers and they deal a ton more damage than ADCs. It's hell having Yasuo or Yone miss all their skills but they still win for autoing you.

[@WeakestYasuoPlayer]

@@slashhack1463 yone is a Bullshit champion. But yasuo has a counter its called... all bruiser tanks and mlee assassins, all mlee champions for short.

[@largeoctahedron]

As a support main, there's a special kind of pain when you're *slightly* too far away to save your ADC from the assassin and they get one shot.

[@burstnugget8225]

Cant help but blame yourself, then proceed to get one shotted yourself after realizing you chased your ADC way into a death trap

[@intoHeck1964]

How about when you are there and play it perfectly and your adc still dies

[@burstnugget8225]

@@intoHeck1964 curse their internet provider, or them directly

[@Azazreal]

@@burstnugget8225 Man i felt this in my soul. Cannot count the number of times ive gotten myself killed trying to protect someone i know is buggered xD

[@burstnugget8225]

@@Azazreal it's a vain attemp at not having the the team yell at you For not trying to keep the ADC alive

[@VigilTheProtogen]

Alternate title: "Marksmen: The Class With ZERO Agency?" I'm joking definitely, but the amount of times I've one shot ADC's as Kha'zix, I keep telling myself it's not personal, that if I don't kill the ADC I'm trolling, but then I'm leaping in and dealing 1000 damage to the enemy 2/11 Varus for the 5th time in 10 minutes.

[@ripunjoyborgohain2934]

If the Varus has that many deaths, he probably deserves it anyways...as an ADC main, we must always stay careful to die as little as possible and never roam alone...roaming alone as an ADC is a death wish and as soon as we get ambushed it's gg byebye

[@diogoalfaia3238]

I think completely differently. If I see a champ that personally annoys me, I will focus him down. For me, if I have the agency to do so, I will assassinate champions purely based on my personal liking.

[@haganenno]

@@diogoalfaia3238 frfr gotta make that shaco ragequit

[@patrikhartman973]

@@diogoalfaia3238 thats when i play shaco i camp enemy katarina, yasuo, akali, zed becuz i dont like them

[@diogoalfaia3238]

@@haganenno Unfortunately, shaco can probably tilt me more then I can tilt him. But in that case, there's another answer. Permaban. Fuck that clown boi

[@michaandrzejsigismundfreih7900]

"ok they have a lot of assassins, I'm going to pick a tank to counter them!" *gets killed with one ulti combo by a zed with 4 penetration items*

[@wraith6233]

Honestly..

[@justahugenerd1278]

as a zed player, thats the shit i live for

[@hanckk2546]

@@justahugenerd1278 cringe champ

[@vinaayagamkarunagaran3439]

People who play cho and ornn to counter assassin : i have no such weakness

[@michaandrzejsigismundfreih7900]

​@@vinaayagamkarunagaran3439 Only close to being true at like 30+ minutes into the game, which regrettably isn't very common in my games anymore. Even then the assassins will probably build Eclipse, BC and Serylda and asbolutely obliterate you in extended fights.

[@PoiColle]

This channel is so underrated. You have a really calm voice like exil, and a very structural way of going through your information. Super informative and amusing to listen to.

[@VarsVerum]

It's an honor! :D

[@hiding_behind]

👁 agree

[@kota8045]

Chooses really good background music too

[@ultimatelegend18]

They have some sort of defensive tool that prevents you from easily responding to them : Fiora: Riposte Gwen: Blessed Mist Master Yi: Alpha Strike Jax : Counter Strike Yasuo: Windwall Tryndamere : W H A T I S D E A T H L M A O

[@XShadowzVarcolac]

u forgot yi's W, 40% damage reduction after using alpha strike to dodge cc get a kill and go stealth (if duskblade yi) before getting another kill until low health is down right bull

[@veled806]

@@XShadowzVarcolac it reduces %60 of incomin dmg

[@Mon01]

@@veled806 at level 1 lmfao

[@Zender-]

nah bro yi be like: i dont exist but you don't either

[@guidomista3570]

Kled: Sheer Crackhead Determination

[@zeen1287]

Vars has a saying... "If I did not trigger them the first time then the second time shall work"

[@alejandropetit6573]

I hate akali, sorry for the people that main her but fighting someone that is invisible for like 80% of the fight isn't really my definition of fun

[@crimphanto3229]

Master Yi with Duskblade in a nutshell.

[@alejandropetit6573]

@@crimphanto3229 yeah but rammus is one of my mains so i just press 2 buttons and laugh as he oneshots himself but when i'm not playing rammus it's really frustrating

[@V2ULTRAKill]

@@alejandropetit6573 what about being out of your range for 80% of the fight ah la lillia

[@coisaslegaisdenerd]

We hate lilia two, man... Whe hate all assassins ausgas

[@alejandropetit6573]

@@V2ULTRAKill when i'm playing rammus lillia is pure pain but the rest of my champ pool destroys her, i someone dares to pick lillia top against me i just pick rumble and one shot her at level 2

[@longstar5001]

Akali at it again showing us how healthy and fun her kit and design are

[@jaxonmorkes4382]

Riot sure does love giving 4 dashes and 2 executes to champs.

[@husohuso5105]

@@jaxonmorkes4382 what’s the second execute on akalis kit

[@saki453]

@@husohuso5105 the fourth one is purely mental. It makes your team want to FF at 15 after getting ganked by akali for the fifth time.

[@diogoalfaia3238]

That smoke screen, it bothers me beyond everything

[@husnula.6157]

@@diogoalfaia3238 if the smoke makes akali gain a percent dodge chance then I'd be able to tolerate it but nooo. It just, HAD to be a full camouflage. Where's dust of appearance when you need it.

[@TsyChun]

if the only counterplay is them messing up, that's not counterplay, that's just them being op BUT having skill expression. yes, you need mecanics to play them but if how good your opponent is doesnt matter and only your skill tells if you win or lose, that's not good balance for a pvp game

[@Dingdong2730]

Why dont they spam them in pro play then? You should be a coach, I think you might be onto something big here. Why not go Fiora top, Kha jungle, Zed mid, Pyke support and Kaisa adc? There is no counterplay right?

[@tatzecom]

@@Dingdong2730 Because were talking about the general game design here you ignorant fool. Besides that, pro play is completely different than normal ranked games. Even challenger isnt comparable.

[@xxscrublordxxx5652]

@@Dingdong2730 Because pro players have a level of skill, teamwork, and experience you can't possibly get in a normal match of league.

[@Dingdong2730]

@@xxscrublordxxx5652 So there is counterplay? Ah I see, I thought that other guy was a genius.

[@xxscrublordxxx5652]

@@Dingdong2730 Your reading comprehension's shit, go back to first grade chucklefuck.

[@VarsVerum]

Thumbnail problems hang on

[@josueoriashurtado1326]

And what about Azir?

[@ultimatdanklin1473]

@@alae2064 Azir is a hunk

[@markogalica4608]

Nah it looks good

[@andrei_durlea]

Thumbnail: why do i hear boss music?

[@4ktnmanymen]

Hey bro just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your videos and truly believe you deserve atleast 1m subbs bro, the quality of the videos you make is insane and you deserve a-lot more recognition. Keep up the good work bro and stay safe:-)

[@cohoslash5893]

the thumbnail accurately describes my opinion on slayers It doesn't exist

[@helixtk]

Slayer: (doesn't exist anymore)

[@phoenixflamegames1]

I mean I would say hard cc but what champ DOESNT get countered by hard cc (besides olaf in his R)

[@Mustafa-Mohammed22]

Tanks would be happy to suck all hard cc for thier team too

[@esti5esti816]

Mundo

[@carnivorze1052]

Amumu, because my teammate Blitzcrank thinks it's a good idea to grab him in the middle of the team.

[@reisgrimery3372]

New Mundo lolw

[@reptilez5798]

orang

[@Elektr0hazard]

Vars puts out something very special: League contact that isn't specially about the champion but about the game. We need more game knowledge all around for low divisions to learn the game itself, I truly believe this can lead to a less toxic community, it promotes competitiveness as what it is, which is also a learning environment, the fun in tryharding, at least for me, is in constantly realising what you could've done better about the game itself beyond the champion

[@fitmotheyap]

thing is he missed something slayers do.. have a counter all tho not all of them CC,probably won't happen in piss elo like mine or mid elo but in high elo slayers just don't work if there is CC as far as i've seen

[@warheadtodd3875]

I agree with everything you said, the only thing i'd like to add is that some skirmishers have way too high ratios *cough cough yone*. It's not ok for a yone that inted the whole early to be chain cced down, miss almost every skill, and still take one or two people with him in death just because he has shieldbow and overheal and can auto attack you

[@fraizz3098]

And can deal hybrid crits on Q an autos, so his lifesteal is ultra boosted even if you have thornmail, and lets not forget the E true damage

[@simedinson984]

Yea love it when the enemy yone who is 0 10 runs at the 10 0 adc wiffs everything but still wins absolute classic

[@thegames4565]

@@simedinson984 I'm gonna start to tell this story every single time someone talks about yone, so, in my group of 2 friends (3 counting me) that I often play league with, there's me who at least has a basic understanding of the game and some champs, and my friends who, one has at least an idea of what the game is and the other one who doesnt give a shit to learn and doesnt know anything. So, like 3 days ago (since I've first written this comment I mean. I think imma copypaste this a handful of times) we were playing, and then one of my friends disconnects (the one who's bad at the game) and he then reconnects, we play one more match, and guess what, he picks yone. During the match he said useless, random shitpost stuff, he bought useless items, he saved for the entire mythic instead or building it piece by piece, and button mashed the whole thing. He turned out 14/5.

[@thedarkvessel869]

Can I quote you on this everytime someone tríes to say he is balanced?

[@mr.bashdat4793]

"skirmishers may not be able to hop over walls like talon" yone: uses e

[@samuelvp07]

Fiora uses q, Gwen uses e, trind uses e, jax uses ward, riven EXISTS should I go on ?

[@solo_1427]

@@samuelvp07 yone e is a zed ult late game, he can one tap multiple squishies with one e there is no skill expression there like yasuo. Yone like yasuo has sustained DMG but his e enables him to output aoe burst DMG. Not saying he's unbeatable but he's clearly a hybrid and nothing you mentioned above has anything on yone e let's be real here

[@gergovogronics850]

@@solo_1427 Yone is riot's little favorite. He is relatively new but i can tell he will always be strong in the meta no matter what. Also having 3 passives is "balanced".

[@10trapiche]

Yone is an assassin, it even says so on the riot website

[@valentindaria9225]

@@10trapiche yone is everything and anything (but balanced)

[@tnsrs2719]

The problem is that on average you expect to find just as many bad/good players for any role. If a slayer can buy a counter item you are going to be at a disadvantage more often than not

[@tatzecom]

This. If an assassin had to buy a shitton of damage to be able to onetap an ADC, that would be balanced. But nooo, every time i see someone waltzing around with a Zhonyas and like, an armor item or something and theyre still able to one tap you.

[@tnsrs2719]

@@tatzecom yes generally my feeling is that Riot tried to make too many hibrid classes. Once you combine some traits the counterplay is nearly impossible

[@tatzecom]

@@tnsrs2719 Exactly. Yone being the biggest offender of em all if you ask me. 100+ Armor and MR with 2600HP and still dealing insane damage while also being realitvely safe due to his E. Fantastic game design.

[@bp_ick3788]

@@tatzecom what are you talking about which yone do you see have 100+ armor and mr while having 2.6k hp AND dealing damage

[@tnsrs2719]

@@tatzecom in my mind it is akali. Too much mobility

[@NodokenStar-k917]

Now I realized that making slayers' skill-expression both their biggest strength and ONLY weakness, does not make them healthy to play against, with or even as. This makes them poorly designed. EDIT: Skill-expression is too valuable and dangerous to make one class' strength and weakness.

[@intoHeck1964]

Half the time it’s not even a weakness. A 0-20 tryndamere who split pushes all game can be your downfall. He WILL reach a point where you need to send multiple people to deal with him

[@jerrypie1230]

the amount of games i have simply lost/won because the enemy/our slayer was fed enough to solo carry... it honestly is also just boring. as an adc and (squishy) support main there is just a point where you start feeling completely useless. either your slayer will do the job for you and all you have to do as adc is get some objects or as support heal the slayer occasionly (even tho they might not even need that) or the enemy slayer just one shots you before the fight actually started and all you can do is stand around in base wait for your team to ff or your own slayer to finally get a brain. in my eyes it just completely destroys the fun of a strategy based game - because there is just no strategy against a fed slayer than to ff and hope that next game the slayer on your team will be the better one...

[@PedroMDN]

@@jerrypie1230 o feel you man, slayers makes me feel useless in lol all the time. I used to be a main support but now I only play aram, and let me tell you about a match were I was playing zed, the enemy Morgana was countering me every time, after she was fed and was 0/5 or something I just ulted her and killed her with very little effort even though she doing 200% in that game I only need like 75% to take her out of a fight and give major advantage to my team. To this day I still haven't played more than 3 times zed FYI.

[@vali_bg5234]

Skill expression is the best thing, they are poorly designed for league and league specifically.

[@luckydragon6067]

Slayers are the class where the design space is “how much fun to play/ be flashy” beats out the immense anti fun and poisonous environment created by playing against them. It’s never fun playing against these awful champs unless you get to spit on them when they are down because good god they feel like they just exist to be annoying.

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

I'd argue some slayers are too strong they make other slayers obselete. *cough* Yone *cough*

[@baum6664]

Not to mention that some of them spike on one item, while other classes need 2, 3 or even 4.

[@yarn7733]

@@baum6664 yasuo can get 100% crit rate with 2 items. Its one of the biggest power spikes in the game

[@sighman9209]

Usually the tell of assassin meta is when you start seeing bruisers mid. (Say hi to Sett, Garen and Renekton as a few examples)

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

@@yarn7733 Ooo guess who's just like Yasuo but scales better? YONE. As annoying as Yasuo is, atleast he NEEDS targets to dash on.

[@NathanielCoran]

12:41 "The only counterplay assassins and skirmishers have is how bad they are" this sentence right here is the entire reason I quit playing ADC tbh, you summed it up perfectly. It makes them look 'balanced' when you look at their winrate but in the context of a single game?? You come up against a player that's above average skill on a slayer champ and it's an impossible task because the only significant "counterplay" was to hope your opponent would be bad, and this one isn't, so it's game over gg go next.

[@manarager3413]

The counterplay, in this instance, is *don't be the worse player*. If you really are a better player than they are, if you really deserve to win this game, then it should be no issue. If they win because they're better than you at the game, I'd say that's pretty foundational to a competitive game.

[@NathanielCoran]

@@manarager3413 I feel like you've misinterpreted what I said my dude

[@parkerwilliams7236]

@@manarager3413 It sounds like you don't actually play league. Please tell me what counterplay a tristana can do against a good akali. Run? Yeah, that sounds like good game design.

[@manarager3413]

@@parkerwilliams7236 Akali is a bad example in this instance. Both Akali and Yone don't have proper counterplay/ At best it's "Dodge the E", but her mobility is such that she can stil assassinate a target that has dodged her E. Hower, champions like Yasuo, Zed, and Talon all have fairly distinct counterplay. Talon can be countered by sweeper and disengaging before he actually can land his autoattack. Zed can be countered by dodging shurikens. Yasuo can be countered by dodging tornado and spacing in a location without things to dash on. River fights don't do well for Yas if he doesn't have a champ with a knockup on the team. Also, ADCs are a bad example of this counterplay design, as they fundamentally rely on their support to provide counterplay that isn't "Just dodge" for them, as they don't have many self peel abilities generally speaking. And, well... Assassins are the intended counterplay to ADCs.

[@NathanielCoran]

@@manarager3413 I like the way that you're dismissing any champ that you agree is exactly what we're talking about as "a bad example". It's not a bad example just because it proves you wrong bud.

[@starwingz]

4:25 “a jungle main get auto filled” As a jungle player I cannot relate

[@MelonJoose]

i once got autofilled mid from jungle/top I still don't know how that happened

[@花束-p5p]

Waiting for Enchanters : Useless or broken healbot?

[@bobbobobob9054]

Most enchanter really have straight forward gameplay it be interesting to see more complex enchanter like nami or taric

[@Juanmaligno]

@@bobbobobob9054 NAMI so fun until the enemies start applying grievous wounds then she feels useless

[@Shaathurray]

@@Juanmaligno Whaaaat? You still have a bubble and can empower autos to slow while also gaining movespeed. Nami can heal for sure. But her main draw is her ms buffs and debuffs.

[@pyrokatarina]

@@Shaathurray a bubble that needs 100iq to land. Its not as easy to land compared to hook champs, or point and click knockups supports

[@Dingdong2730]

Nami and Janna are the only enchanters that actually just takes a tiny bit of skill, change my mind

[@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719]

One of the times I had the most fun in league was when I was alone in a lane in the mid game as a 5/1/3 Miss Fortune, and a 0/4/1 zed with 60% my cs came up to challange me, and absolutely destroyed me. Not cause I was outplayed, But because he killed me with ease with his abilities. It didn't matter that I put out maximum dps, and had the chance to kite hiom for free dmg before the fight started.

[@epic1053]

bro hes a zed he counters you, you should never try to fight him same as a zed trying to all in a full armour tank. Once they have more then one armour item it's a waste of time.

[@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719]

@@epic1053 obviously, one might think that someone who hard ints in lane might at least struggle against somone who's fed. If you read the comment you'll see it didn't go well. Do you think I look at this experiance and go: "hm, yes. This is something I will do on repeat cause it worked so well last time". I'm not an idiot. My comment was me complaining at how I can be hard winning, and an assasin hard loosing, yet still the assasin won't even need to use the skill cieling the champion gives to completely wreck my face in.

[@epic1053]

@@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719 skill celling ? You were playing Mf with has no actual skill shots to dodge how is zed meant to use his skill celling to out play you? There's nothing to outplay if you are playing a point and click champ

[@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719]

@@epic1053 there is still plenty you can do. And that I do do. It can be things like bushes, how your champ interacts with the terrain, and when to use wheat abilities. That is on top of the use of your q, which is actualy quite hard to master the bounce on if you're bellow Diamond. But thing was this zed didn't use his q on me. He just moved up, placed his shadow, used his aot dmg from it, shadow tp, then ulti. And 1 AA. I died. There are plenty of ways to out play most adcs but he didn't even need to use more than 2 braincells despite being behind, and he still won. He could've used his brain, but didn't need to. Because mf doesn't have a kit that can do anything against someone like zed. And despite being vastly behind, he just destroyed me. That's my point.

[@jhomastefferson3693]

@Dichang Feng Ok so who is teemo supposed to counter? I'm sure i can logically trap you into agreeing teemo needs buffs based on whatever you answer.

[@thegmp7439]

Man goes on a tangent in a video for what half the soloqueue playerbase is thinking

[@frangkiskosmelanitis6904]

Slayers: the tanky assassin bruisers

[@rsfakqj10rsf-33]

Don't forget that they also can outdamage adcs and has skills more impactful than mages

[@minhducnguyen9276]

@@rsfakqj10rsf-33 Most other classes have to choose 1 to 2 things from these 4: mobility, tank, dmg or cc. Slayers basically say: fuck it, we gonna take 70% of each of these. So now they have just enough mobility to get close to a marksman or mage, just enough health to keep up with the ADCs dmg, just enough dmg to kill a tank and just enough cc to kill the ADCs and mages when they realised that they need to get out.

[@bp_ick3788]

@@minhducnguyen9276 Why aren't slayers op then? Slayers are highly mobile champs that specialize in single target burst damage. I'm going to assume you're talking about skirmishers and not assassins since they both full under the same class. Skirmishers lack reliable ways of closing in on high-priority targets which is why they are given survivability tools. Let's take Jax as an example Jax has good dps as he gets attack speed from his passive and bonus damage on his 3rd aa when he's lvl 6. Jax has a long-range target-specific dash (q), he has the most broken ability against attack damage heavy champs in his e and an armor and mr boost in his r when he uses it. Jaxs strengths include tanky good dps cc dash. Jaxs weaknesses include single damage, melee, weak base stats, highly reliant on abilities, and target-specific dash.

[@bp_ick3788]

​@@minhducnguyen9276 Jax has mobility, tankiness, dmg, and cc. He doesn't have enough damage tools to be a damage dealer, he doesn't have enough cc to be considered a disrupter like Ornn or Rell he doesn't have enough tankiness to be a tank he doesn't have enough mobility to be an assassin. At the end of the day, he's a jack of all trades master of none character he has everything but he is at the same time lacking everything.

[@minhducnguyen9276]

@@bp_ick3788 It's quite close on some stats though. Jax has more sustainable damage than yas, overall better defensive ability. But yas has 2 aoe cc, one of it is the ulti. They are both powerful in a teamfight but Jax is strong even when fighting alone. A team that can capitalize on a successful yas combo however, get more out of it than a Jax jumping in. Assassin have DMG and mobility but next to no cc. If they failed to secure a kill in teamfight, they need to get out because they don't have any cc, they can't contribute to the team anymore.

[@wungusbill_]

The class whose only counter play is that players own skill

[@V2ULTRAKill]

Or in lillias case Her teams skill Seriously weakest skirmisher because she requires a team moving as a unit ro succeed

[@minimoYT]

@@V2ULTRAKill Nah, Lillia's win rate is above 35% in solo queue, better nerf her

[@V2ULTRAKill]

@@minimoYT shhhhh 44% winrate deer is alreqdy a sad uwu champion leave her alone

[@madlysoldier5143]

@@V2ULTRAKill 9 Men sleep Pro play LOL

[@IntotheGrey]

My frustration with slayers comes from the strength of lifesteal/omnivamp right now. Its really painful to be a tank fighting a slayer who built a single lifesteal item and to have less sustain in a fight than them. Bramble vest and other healcut items feel so mandatory that riot is nerfing bramble vest because too many people are building it

[@hutaoandbootao2310]

Anti heal needs to be bufft so badly, it's basically useless right now

[@thestarforger832]

The one weakness of slayers is being on my team since I don't remember the last time my team's slayer wasn't something like 0/12 while the enemy's was 15/0

[@manuelortega4152]

"Slayers weakness is being bad at the game" 11:40 Yone proceeds to fail half of his combo and still oneshots the full hp Viktor within the last 2 seconds of his E. Riot: Balance.

[@zyibesixdouze4863]

Just picked up Yone yesterday. Can relate, hit my 10 death powerskile and steamrolled mid-late

[@MelonJoose]

he "missed" one Q that put him in range to actually fight viktor. Not saying yone is balanced or that the clip wasn't fucking disgusting but he didn't actually mess up anything

[@theimmortaleye7511]

Most of these may be described as being the class that if removed from the game honestly everybody would be mostly betteroff most of these champs are the most hated in the game ( yasou akali and to a bit lesser degeee kha and the others..) .i dont like assasins and juggernauts but they have sone weaknesses in their kits....but most slayers are assasins for an entire team with the only counterplay being riot gutting their stats and ratios as they got so much value in their kits ( compare yasous giant passive shield and 100 crit to the 15 armor wukong gets or the 20 movement speed taliyah gets) . But jeah as a support enchanter main im pretty biased here ...and no in reality no champion should be removed its just an opinion

[@diogoalfaia3238]

As a KhaZix main, I'm sorry to inform you, but Janna is such an appetizing champion to kill. Enchanter, specialy those with no cc, are such easy prey if found alone.

[@baptistecochennec5956]

Sorry to inform you but assassins are part of the slayer archetypes and you just take the information that you want I mean darius is a jugg but he 250 ad +lyandrys on his passive, zed have a bonus damage to low people while he's a slayer that's not especially good

[@bohomazdesign725]

Dont get me started on Kha. Yesterday I played against that bullshit champ. An Assassin that should falloff in late game. Meanwhile that dumb champs jumps on me (Riven - 3.1K HP, 140 Armor) and deals 2K dmg with his Q, turns invisible, Qs again from invisilibity. Where is the counterplay here? Oh, and the funny part is that its not even a skill based kill. Just point and click xD It cant even get more braindead xD

[@V2ULTRAKill]

You realize lillia is also a slayer right? You know the deer thats only value is in proplay because she has zero agency unless played in toplane (but she doesnt fit the toplane archetype so nobody does it)

[@bohomazdesign725]

@STERBEN it was a +40 mins game :) so everyone was pretty much fullbuild. The issue is "prawlers claw".

[@im8n256]

New video idea: ADCs: The Class with 100% Counterplay

[@mohamedamajoud7952]

ADC'S: The class with 0 agency

[@paologarcia2138]

Except for Vayne

[@ItssLevii]

Vars is really pumping out these top tier videos. Hes quickly become my favourite content creator

[@vsmol6985]

Playing evelynn has taught me my team doesn't like to engage in a teamfight and wait for me to do it. Also that pink wards do more dmg than adcs

[@yesianyeha7479]

As a former ADC main, i can confirm, either you pick the BS broken and boring meta ADCs or you pick a fun ADC but deal absolutley no damage and no survivability

[@crysian8703]

You forgot that if they have an assassin and your adc has a huge bounty early, the game just got a lot harder instead of easier.

[@simedinson984]

Yea I have lost count of how many times I have lost games after stomping lane to a 0 10 yone oneshoting me and getting that 1 l shutdown

[@sedarium5307]

The games turns into protect the ADC or the enemy's assasin getting a big ass shutdown, and sometimes no matter how carefully the ADC plays or his teammates bc the Assasin will suicide to get the shutdown

[@Jaws1375]

As a support main, and one who's liked enchanters for a long time, I think another aspect to it is that they've constantly nerfed shields, which used to be one of the few things that could possibly keep the ADC alive from assassins long enough to hit some CC and burst them down.

[@bismuthbaker6433]

Someone playing a Slayer only needs to know the cc abilities of their enemies and that is enough. Anyone fighting a Slayer needs to know the Slayers whole kit and the basic numbers on each of them in order to have a chance to form a good outplay. Akali: keep a track of the veigar e and lux q vs Akali: Don't let her set up e so hide behind minions but don't get too close to avoid r1 or backwards e for q or r1 and the aa follows. keep a track of your teams cc, any point and click ccs are unavailable in w and skill shots are hard to land even w sweeper hope you have a sej who can q through the w. keep a track of akalis energy, will she q poke or q w all in? she might have ward on your jg, and when you walk up try to full combo you before the jg can get in position for a gank, but you cant be super passive cus akali might turn around and full combo your jg before youre in position. dont stand near walls under tower as she can use r2 to both kill and wall hop. before her changes you had to decide if you wanted armour or mr as she had hybrid damage. now she is full magic damage so do you go mr or zhonyas? how useful is zhonyas if you cant react to her e or r2? how much mana will 4 spells be and will i need more if she all ins me? How well do i think my jg can solo Akali and do i ask to be left alone? The Akali can focus on honing her skill expression and experimenting with runes, items, macro and teamfight mechanics but the poor mage has to spam ping both lanes in a nervous sweat only for the lanes to flame when Akali shows up mid anyway. When fighting a yas you need to keep in mind, shield passive and if he can reset it with ult, q stacks, windwall cd, dash unit availability and even if you are going to land your lux q you gotta look out for the sneaky flash dodge so keep your flash finger ready. and you gotta cs well on top of that cus while yas can scale well regardless of his early game you need that sweet cheddar so you can last long enough in a teamfight to kill the enemy adc so that someone on your team can focus on yasuo without getting melted. where as if its; Akali vs Yas: keep track of his windwall, keep your mobility for his or someone elses knockup and manage energy to not take unneeded aas. Yas vs Akali: block e with windwall and try predict Akali's movement, make sure to manage passive for her poke and use e to avoid aas if possible. The match up is just about skill expression and it's fun for both sides. no wars of attrition where they have infinite spell casts and in build sustain. If one of you goes to roam you can follow and be even in power for a fair fight. TLDR: If you wanna fight a slayer you gotta look up the lol wikis and study champs to have a working knowledge of them to set up outplays and the best thing you can do is drop 20 games on those champs so you can predict what they wanna do. If you wanna play a slayer you need far more broad game knowledge and need to practice macro and execution which is fun and rewarding. One forces you to memorize every slayer to have a chance at fighting them the other lets you improve as a player and have fun.

[@akisuri2202]

Literally what I think about Akali, that champ is not that hard to play and she is so rewarding

[@mayguardian1]

and the thing is: as an adc the only way to counter akali is to hope she’s bad. if you get hit by e, you’re dead, and there’s literally nothing you can do about it. for example, if i’m playing caitlyn, i can try to e her e. but if i mistime it or can’t react fast enough, she will just e2 r1 q, w to dodge all of my damage, q to slow and r2, kill me, and get away free. or if i try to e when she e2, it still doesn’t matter because her q will slow me so that she can get in range for the rest of her combo. she has so many options to kill me that i basically have to know her kit inside and out to get the perfect timing to dodge her abilities. but all she has to think about is “oh cait has e and maybe flash”

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

A little tidbit on that Yasuo vs Akali matchup... Windwall also blocks her five point strike, so there's that. If you manage to bait one out and then windwall the second one, assuming you can play around her shroud you should be able to win. Played this yesterday and I did exactly that.

[@coolchrisable]

@@Geheimnis-c2e did you win the game though im just asking?

[@superxdish]

Do not agree with the comment. U say slayers only have to be careful of the cc and that's it. Well, what happens to an akali if she gest Qed by lux? SHE DED, because the lux combo is a one shot. What happens to yasuo if he dashes to veigar and eats the cage? HE DED, cuz W into Q into R is now undogeable and will instantly delete you. While the slayer needs to know its kit to destroy the mage, the mage needs to hit 1 skill and its done. True, akali can one shot you if she hits her E, but so can you if you hit your cc

[@tatzecom]

You see, assassins would be wayy less played and way less oppressive if games werent over by 20-25 minutes. Assassins usually lack teamfighting capabilities, they can try and oneshot a singular target in the enemy backline but after that theyre done, theres no follow up. So that one pick they can trade 1:1 better be the carry and not the support or something because otherwise its a guranteed lost fight. If games were to last 30 minutes and teamfights were more common, i think especially in midlane control mages would make a comeback. Orianna for example is a top tier teamfighter, she can hardly do anything against assassins tho. Overall the whole game isnt decided by who is objectively playing better as a team but by who gets an early lead and can capitalize on it the most. What good can ADCs do if they never reach the phase of the game where theyre relevant unless theyre ridiculously fed? They just get exploded over and over and over again early game until they cant come back anymore. "Play safe then" i cant be more safe than standing under my tower but with the TTK being so insanely low, towerdiving while tanking one maybe two shots isnt that hard, even in early-mid game. Samira is a shit duelist since she is literally a walking teamfight machine, too bad she never reaches the stage of the game where there are actual teamfights if you dont count the one maybe two occasions theres a tf around an objective. Fuck assassins, unhealthiest role for the game imo.

[@thetoymaker1353]

Assasins are literally the first reason ( second one being new champs) why ı quit league. I was an ADC main(Kindred). There is no ''Stay Safe'' point when the tank and the support tower dives you and you just die to a zeds shadow. Like they need skill but someofthem in lategame are just braindead champions imo. For example: A zed that doesn't hardfeed and wa able to scale good can just room bot kill you and get out yet you cant do anything because he jumps past your sup or tank.

[@willg4676]

I dont get it, you very clearly just laid out the exact counterplay and then said itd be balanced if games were longer cause of teamfights which assassins generally struggle in. So you're saying that if you survive and scale you'll have a good opportunity to win. But if you dont get to that phase its not balanced. So you're saying unless assassins are in teamfights which you know they're bad in its not fair? Like I dont get it, I understand that it sucks not being able to do anything but your solution doesn't really make sense to me

[@willg4676]

Also for most assassins tower diving is generally more risky cause of the lower HP so I dont really see how thats true, unless you're like level 11, in which case you're not in laning phase whatsoever anyway

[@vedaliessonmostepicfailsin5171]

Skirmishers are literally having 3k hp and dealing your enitre health bar 3 times over, they can kegit say fuck yiu and 1v9 the game in a way asssasins cant.

[@minutenreis]

@@thetoymaker1353 playing kindred post 6 and dying that easily to a towerdive is problematic, also did you really play kindred adc or jgl, since she is a very bad adc but a good ranged jungler

[@Zancibar]

I don't like assassins but to a degree I kind of undestand their existence (even if I'd argue that they should be the finishers rather than the one-shitters) but what I don't get is the sheer numbers some skirmishers have; Yasuo is annoying but I know for a fact that he cannot kill me from full health lvl 6 without me being able to at least flash, I can't say the same about Yone, Fiora is annoying but I know for a fact that she can't land her parry slow and murder me while the slow lasts, I can't say the same about Irelia, Lillia can be excruciating to play against as an inmobile bruiser but I know that she can't kill me quick enough unless I literally walk into her W and I cannot say the same about Riven. So in general yeah, it's Riot playing favorites that annoys me.

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

I hate how they keep Irelia's infinite healing on minions but godforbid Aatrox' E physical vamp heal from minions as well as it being post-mitigation unlike Vlad or Sylas.

[@YasuoHashiraYTB]

Nice video , I have to agree tho The part that the best counterplay to these champs is how skillful you and the other is , in concept is great but when not every class works this way. Its bad Because, it becomes that they can itemize against other classes but you can not really itemize against them. So in theory , they have no counterplay. If someone plays Yasuo perfectly, you as a Mage got absolutely 0 counterplay. And that should not be the case imo

[@mathematiciantim3439]

I’m an adc main. However, I have to honestly say that there is one big flaw in this video. Especially when talking about assassins. Assassins basically only exist to kill high priority targets. I honestly believe that if you don’t take measures against them, you should be one-shot by them no matter how fed you are. You can’t ignore a 4 item jinx even if your entire team has 6 items, because those 4 items are more than enough for her to absolutely destroy your entire team. Same goes for assassins. Just because you have more items doesn’t mean you get to ignore them. A well timed stopwatch, a GA, a well placed dash with galeforce or even just shieldbow while you’re in the middle of your own team is more than enough for the assassin to just flat out die in a second. Assassins can’t buy time. Even those with stealth can’t buy time. Just because an akali went into her shroud or kha zix went invisible, doesn’t mean you can’t kill them. If they want to deal damage, they have to expose themselves. At which point cc is extremely effective since they’ve already used their mobility to get on top of you. I feel like skill being the way to beat the highest skill class of champs is totally reasonable. If the enemy yasuo had to put 100 games into the champ to get good enough at him to climb, you shouldn’t be able to just nullify all of that by just buying a bramble vest. They *need* their counterplay to be skill, because they take so much of it to be effective.

[@tostupidforname]

this

[@battleroyale123]

The most well written bs

[@Quikate]

Wow waiting for them to use their important skills and then using cc on them counters them? It surely doesnt work with other 6 classes right?

[@anthonyvazquez4915]

@@Quikate idk man, you can cc akali and she'll still go invisible in shrowd making it so i cant even auto her.

[@urbanoverlord2412]

zed can go back to the safety of his shadow, akali can use her ult 2, leblanc can hop right back to her first position, yone can go back to his soul (nullifying cc in the process btw), ekko can literally say lol no with ult, katarina can blink back to her team/daggers/plants... they didn't use their mobility to get on top of you, they used the half thats used to engage while keeping the half thats used to disengage if it goes wrong... and then get their entire kit back in 15 seconds to try again

[@PSReldus]

Honestly my biggest issues with Slayers is Edge of Night existing in the game next to them. The only consistent way to actually deal with an assassin is to hit them with something that'll stop them, so letting them have an item like Edge of Night that lets them get such a strong defensive choice without really giving up any damage is just fucked. I can't express how much it sucks to perfectly predict an assassin's dash with a skillshot CC only to have it blocked by a damage-boosting item. Now my only way of stopping them is on cooldown and they can just keep doing whatever they want. Even champions like Leona who have 30 different sources of hard CC can't actually stop anyone fast enough. Katarina will still just blink on top of my adc and one-hit them before I can click q and auto, or before her E lands.

[@hamzasami8362]

assasin items, assasin abilities, and base damage of tanks makes this game broken there someone had to say it. forgot to say that grevious wounds is fucking useless past 20m

[@imrem2872]

"bruisers are weak in mobility" Chemtank, stridebreaker, ghost: let me introduce ourselves

[@bielhelp]

Slayer is the class that is literally saying "I don't need to play well, the game just need to be long enough".

[@adcyuumi]

It's not a matter of how long the game goes. ... How many times have you seen a 15-20 minute game where a completely average or even slightly bad Yasuo player managed to rack up 60k+ damage? Mobility + Damage, if you have enough of each, creates a BAD snowball effect. Targets can't run to avoid you. You show up, you run them down, and they die because the can't fight you. As soon as it starts to happen, the game becomes nearly unplayable for the entire enemy team -- even the ones that can still fight you are affected, because now they have to keep you off of the rest of their team. It's crippling. If you are fast enough to easily run down targets, you should have to be way ahead to be dangerous. You shouldn't be able to also outfight pretty much anyone before you are even fed.

[@OG_ALviK]

Lol, you are very mistaken.

[@Kitusser]

@@OG_ALviK yeah.. I don't think he watched the video either...

[@glu9862]

Srsly, when Will katarina, rengar, kha zix and shaco get seriously nerfed plz

[@patrikgasparik8686]

Lol silver

[@glu9862]

@@patrikgasparik8686 dunno man, shaco with his 54% winrate in masters

[@patrikgasparik8686]

@@glu9862 shaco is broken but not Kata, Rengo and Kha.......

[@patrikgasparik8686]

I main kata i have over 700k mastery points on her and to be fair, she was op before they nerfed kraken slayer, but rn you have like 0 chance to win laning phase against anyone since you have only bad matchups and ur forced to go AP since ad is just fcked so ur relevant around mid-late game....

[@justanuff]

You realize that Shaco takes a big brain to play him efficiently?

[@catfood4142]

I really wish Riot see this video because I don’t think they even realize it. Assassins and skirmishes are just too rewarding while being so forgiving, along with the dmg getting higher and higher each patch, they also get indirect buffs from changes towards melee champions or nerfs to mages/adc items

[@tobiasosuna5023]

kinda crazy bacause the video says the opposite thing

[@arielmatiauda5110]

They don't forgive any misplay, you missed and they don't die

[@tatzecom]

Seeing how talon can clear an enitre wave with his Q while i have to spend my entire rotation as malzahar and still dont clear it as fast is so rewarding /s

[@coisaslegaisdenerd]

Man... I really agree whit that coment. Like... Ekko is hard to play? Yes... But you cant die whit him if you, at least, have one hand. You can dash, shield, stun, slow, revive... Like... Wtf?! Yone is a busted champ, so easy to play and so fucking busted... Like... Wtf man? Why he can't die, he cant be stuned. But he can stun you, kill you and heal full healt whit one auto...

[@arielmatiauda5110]

@@coisaslegaisdenerd Yone has an easy counter play always in melee range, you know exactly where he will be when he uses his abilities he HAS to travel in a stright line to knock up and HAS to come back to his body, tells you where his ult and E are going and W makes you stand still for seconds, point all your most damaging or disabling abilities when he exposes himself, can't dodge that

[@gergovogronics850]

They are squishy: Laughs in Yone/Tryndamere/Red Kayn/Kled/Sylas/Yone If you have an ability that can heal ~50% of your HP you are VERY FAR from squishy and should not be listed as a slayer. Or just don't state stuff like that if the class has this many champs that do have big sustain and a huge effective HP pool. I've seen more than enough Kayns with 3000 HP soak up ~5000 HP worth of damage. (Those numbers are tank numbers, but Kayn also deals a ton of dmg)

[@efdbjon2114]

no bc your not thinking about resistances, at the end of the day if one of those champs got hit by cc they can get one shot, not trynda tho bc he can cast r but the rest of them

[@gergovogronics850]

@@efdbjon2114 if any champ(except the very tanky ones) get hit by cc they die. It's not a unique weakness.

[@salj.5459]

I feel like Kled is a fighter, not a slayer

[@feykroTV]

"The only way to beat them is to outplay them" MFW I outplayed and killed tryndamere 10 times but he still takes my lane down only to join a team fight, press R, spin and win.

[@MAMAJUGO]

My favorite counter against slayers is picking Poppy, and use W to make their lives miserable

[@dicorockhimself]

I love poppy against them as well

[@failed_son4957]

*Me chillen in lane* Enemy Yasuo: *incoherent dashing through minions*

[@chabri2000]

assasins are too binary. They either: -oneshot the adc with out any counterplay and are op. -or the fail to do it, and becomes uselss, since they don't have utility, tankiness or dps aside from the initial burst.

[@dextroier1]

The only way to defeat a slayer is them being bad. Oh yes, I can imagine how much skill it took for the Yone in the video to go from the blue side raptors to the red side raptors and back without losing HP while killing Viktor, trully a class that requires a lot of skill.

[@dextroier1]

The class simply does not require skill, it doesn't matter how many times you miss, you only need to get it right once and boom, you won.

[@sardette]

@@dextroier1 Then play the champ and get challenger yourself.

[@dextroier1]

@@sardette Sorry, I only play champions i find fun, and I only find fun champions that require skill.

[@vencedore1000]

@@dextroier1 I might use this one later. Thanks dude

[@mokitboy5283]

@@dextroier1 for sure a mage main, which is the most broken class in the game lmao, but think highly of themselves.

[@cinderheart2720]

If you could make a new anti-slayer item, what would it be? I feel like the new Death's Dance is supposed to be that, slowing down the damage you take so its less bursty, but the item isn't good enough rn for anyone to really want to buy it.

[@CoqueiroLendario]

i say a item that puts down a "no dashes" area for the enemy team or for everyone if it is too broken, slayers are the class that suffers more from anti-dash (Poppy's W, Singed's W, Cassio's W, Veigar's W) so a no dashes zone would guarantee that they couldn't just sneak by your carry from that side.

[@VarsVerum]

Deaths dance is a good proof of concept for an anti slayer item (though not perfect). By delaying the damage you would take, it means you don't have only half a second to react to burst damage, and therefore can mount a counterattack. But like you said, it's not good enough rn for anyone to really want to buy it because Assassins can do 2x a squishy champion's healthbar so 30% "delay" doesn't do anything.

[@Kitusser]

@@VarsVerum also, when adc's were abusing death's dance that was not fun for anybody

[@dtxas1]

Slayers are pretty much high risk high reward, you are either a menace or a cute minion. Unless fed, they are very unreliable, while 0 3 Nautilus is still doing his job just fine, 0 3 rengar is just another headache for your team to deal with. For example, rengar needs bushes and/or ult, talon needs to hit everything, kha zix needs you to be alone, zed must hit the q's. The problem is when they are fed, they ignore their weaknesses and dominate the game, this is why they are so popular, you get greatly rewarded if you play it out well.

[@Nintendofiery1up1]

"unlike tanks and fighters who can soak up a ton of damage slayers can't" *Laughs in riven e + goredrinker*

[@joekenwood4956]

I tried to write your script Slayers.. they always have been the part of the game from older slayers such as kha zix and rengar to newer slayers such as Yone and Qiyana Acording to the wiki slayers have 2 subclasses one being asasins the other being skirmisher but we will get into them later Slayers by definition have high mobility high burst or damage threat and they mostly struggle againts tanks who can shrug their damage and move on or fighters who can tank their burst while out dps ing them they also take high risk while slaying a priority target thats where the subclasses come in Assasins are much more specialized in killing those priority targets such as mages and marksmen and they can even do that multiple times with ease but in return they are even more weaker againts tanks when compared to their other subclass.. Skirmishers Aka melee carries aka duelists this class has one of if not the most popular class and for a good reason people like to feel superior when compared to their enemy and one of the best way you can prove this is by 1v1 ing the enemy and this class is perfectly designed for that they have just enough survivability to live thru magr or assasin bursts and they have enough sustained damage to take on juggernauts tanks and fighters they also have enough mobility to not get kited by marksmen most of them making them nearly impossible to take them on on a standard 1v1 scenario unless you are also a duelist yourself Now that we identfied what class does what we can get to the main question and before that we will do the classic where i look from the both perspectives So do slayers have a counter? Looking from the persoective of a slayer, yes. If you ask them what is it they will instantly say hard peel enchanters such as lulu and janna or vanguards and wardens with a reliable CC such as alistar and thresh or even marksmen or mages with a good self peel such as xayah and lissandra and before looking from the perspective from a squishy target lets not dorget that slayer or assasins mostly need chaos and bad vision game in order to assasinate thats the main reason you see assasins less often and skirmishers more often now to squidhy target's persoective Do slayers have a counter As much as they dont like to accept they will also say yes marksmen will mention Immortal shieldbow and galeforce while mage players will mention zhonya's hourglass but you will also hear somdtimes these arent enough and i die no matter how defensive i build or if i build againts them my agency lowers significant amount So at the end of the day the answer is yes although its very hard and annoying there are ways to counter slayers Anyways thank you for watching my video and do you agree or disagree with me let me know in the comments and if you enjoyes this video rating would be much appriciated and i will catch you on the next one take care

[@scrave8849]

More people should read this

[@gkarak1996]

The problem is that if cc and ability blocks are the only way to counter a set of champions then that set is too powerful cause cc and ability blocks counter every champion. If you remove that from the equation skill is the only counter and considering the game lol is this is not a real counter play. If the only way to counter a champion is cc then you have failed to create a champion that can be balanced.

[@justanuff]

Yes but why did you do this?

[@kraze3123]

3:36 Assassins are weak to shields. So what happens if you build Serpents Edge now?

[@Kitusser]

Lulu

[@ggwp638BC]

I think the biggest issue with slayers is not that there is no counterplay to them, but that YOU, the target, does not have counterplay. Marksmen and Mages can kite tanks and bruisers, but they are very unlikely to do so against a well-played assassin/skirmisher. So the ones who have the sufficient CC and peel in their kit to stop the opponent slayer ends up being the support. A decently played Lulu can completely shutdown any assassin or skirmisher that isn't so fed they can 1v5. And if they target the sup, the ADC or Mage can instantly shut them down with damage (or if not, it's at least sufficient time to shut down the entire enemy team). But because you MUST rely in another player to counter this class, it feels like there is simply nothing you can do stop them except for waiting for a small mistake and out-playing them. And that even brings another issue. Slayers have the most tools to "outplay" the enemy. While slayers are the most skill expressive, there is some nuance to that. They aren't skill expressive such as Twisted Fate, in which a really good TF can control the game and make up for the champion's weakness through skill, but rather that you have a large pool of resources and the more skilled you are the more of these resources you can utilize and thus achieve better plays. While I'm not saying slayers are easy or braindead, it does take a lot more skill to outplay someone as TF, who has a very limited pool of resources, than as a Zed, who has 3 blinks on his kit and can multiply each of his two main abilities up to 3x. Every new thing you learn with a slayer seems to boost your skill with that champion tremendously, while with every other class you need to pile up a degree of experience and knowledge of hidden mechanics before looking as a "next level" player.

[@hamzasami8362]

I love playing mages and adc's whilst getting one shotted! Just kidding! I don't even get to play!

[@erebuskaslana1583]

Look at the bright side. The less League you play the more sane you stay.

[@RaxorX]

The true counter to slayers. Having a good team comp in champ select with frontline.

[@viperdragon35lol6]

Pretty Much. Hate when i play mid and entire team picks squishy damage dealer for jg top and a mage support with little cc, just to have the last enemy pick a yi. Now its like how do we win the game before 16 mins

[@bygonehope6158]

We need to stop with the “hard stuck players are just bad.” Can’t choose teammates. 7 afk games in a row isn’t my fault

[@cirdanfromlorien]

Agreed. Also.. How am I supposed to save a game and win while I'm playing support? No matter how good I am, if my team mates suck, I lose as well. I cannot win 1 v 5 as Morgana/Karma/Lux/Leona.. Wtf Plus, I can get 1 shoted and thats IT for me...

[@paologarcia2138]

@@cirdanfromlorien I feel you, as a Bard main, I can make plays for my team, but if they just don't follow me or miss every single skillshot, my hard work is useless

[@panger9648]

Enemy Team = 5 Randoms Your Team = 4 Randoms + You If you are *consistently* playing well, u will gain elo. Having a 10 Times losing streak beacause unlucky matchmaking happens and is frustrating, but it surely evens out at 1000 Games - in the long run there is no luck, just yourself and your consistent performance. The earlier u realise this and stop finding excuses, the better for you.

[@sardette]

@@panger9648 Facts. I like to keep the 30 - 30 - 40 rule in mind. 30% of games are unwinnable no matter how well you play, 30% of games are also unloseable regardless of how badly you play. In the other 40%, YOU are the deciding factor in whether you lose or win. If you are better than your opponent in every game, you should win at least 70% of your games.

[@panger9648]

@@sardette Coach Curtis, am I right? :D And i'm totally with you of course!

[@traine4126]

I love the fact assassins can still damage me even though i build 2 armor items

[@khalidamr5242]

Now this is a video i've been looking forward to

[@angelbird538]

I dislike Slayers because, No matter what you do, No matter how hard you shut them down, No matter what you build. No matter what runes you take. No matter how many times you solo kill them, No matter How many levels above them you are, No matter how much CS above them you are. No matter how much Help you get from the jungler or from roams, No matter how bad their team or even they preforms, They are still Able to solo 1V5. Its not a matter of skill expression. People like to hold onto this Myth that league is a skill based game. Its not. Not a single choice you make matters and Slayers are proof of that fact. Kill akali 8 times in 5 minutes, And gain a 45 CS lead, recall, spend gold, Buy items, Come back to lane, and watch as that akali is Still stronger then you, Despite the fact you Proved on repeat, you are Magnitudes better then that akali player.

[@Xianio]

The biggest weakness with the Slayer class is that they are, generally, exceptionally weak at objectives. They are 100% tooled up for killing things but generally very poor at converting those kills into won objectives without the help of the rest of the team. If a Fighter is the last man standing they're going to take a tower. Same with tanks due to the rune tailor-made for them; demolish. It's why a 10/2/2 Zed can still lose games while a 10/2/7 Hecarim will be pushing down inhibs & closing the game out fast.

[@Rexasblast]

I think that goes for assassins but not skirmishers like tryndamere who's only purpose in life is to hit towers

[@Xianio]

@@Rexasblast Ya you right. I was thinking assassins when I wrote it. Skirmishers vs Assassin is usually matched with losing exit strategies & objectives respectfully. TBH it's odd that they're grouped together given how differently they play.

[@hi-i-am-atan]

@@Xianio they're not really any more different than divers and juggernauts are, honestly. in fact, assassins are basically light divers while skirmishers are basically light juggernauts, trading in passive durability for the active "durability" that dynamic mobility and situational negation abilities bring. plus, they tend to be pretty damn light on actual utility, even relative to fighters, so that they can dump even more of their power into straight-up killing shit 'course while dumping so much into burst damage _does_ play nicely with how all that mobility gets you easy access to enemy squishies, it brings some ... complications to objective taking, especially compared to if you dumped it all into sustained damage instead

[@bullettime1116]

Gwen, trynd, camille, trundle, Jax, fiora and friends all being able to demolish towers in less than 10 seconds

[@dapu8033]

Im always like „oh new video coming soon“ then is see „premier in 10 hours“ and im like „ah shiiiaaat“

[@dimitrieavram]

This class contains all my champ pool and I feel like a disgusting human being

[@matteobonelli8442]

Good. You should. (joking) (maybe)

[@hashira1936]

Love your content bro, you"re the only one that does league content like this

[@VarsVerum]

Thank you! Glad you enjoy it

[@johngrimm2074]

I think skill expression in slayers are what makes them so good. That's why people go up in arms when a Slayers becomes too good or too broken, it's because the Champ loses its skill expression part and just becomes an auto filled win-all champ. And I argue that skill expression is just timed in other Champs, while it's just all the time for Slayers. What makes a good ADC and Mage, you can see it in the first 15 mins and the last few minutes of the game. What makes a good tank, you can see it in either the setups or peel they give to their carries. What makes a good Bruiser, it's the way they garner attention from the enemy. Skill expression is there, it's just that Slayers in particular are very nitpick in the sense that your either good or you git gud.

[@tatzecom]

but shouldnt assassins be very unforgiving then? Say, if Samira misplaces, shes donesies, right? Shes a goner. Same with any other ADC besides maybe Tristana. Katarina can just blink out because her movement isnt restricted, Talon can just press R and hop over a wall never to be seen again, Fizz says "nah" to your damage gets untargetable while getting free movement, Zed says "nah" and Ws out while alos dealing damage with his ranged attacks. Khazix jumps away because of course he does, pressing R if he wants to never to be seen again. Something doesnt add up. I feel like if you misplace yourself as an assassin, you should be just as hard punished as an ADC would be.

[@johngrimm2074]

@@tatzecom I think that's why it's common to see team comps that at least have 3 hard cc. Cause Assassin's only real weakness is they tend to rely on 1 escape tool in their kit, but after that's gone they're pretty much have to wait till it's up again. ADC have the same weakness as mages that they rarely have any escape tools, that's why it's common to see support or tanks peel for the ADCs and mages. And you can't say that a tank can also peel for an assassin, because that rarely ever happens. Assassin's have tons of mobility with the help of their engage and disengage tools, but tanks rarely have that. That's why they can't peel for someone that moving so much around the place. You can't peel for someone that's going to run away as soon as the cc wears off leaving you in the thick of the battle.

[@Chief-rx5zr]

@@tatzecom If the assassin escaped they weren’t out of place, simple as that, If say akali burns her E and W with little care during a team fight and she tries to fight good chance she will just get smacked, if talon vaults into a fight instead of saving said terrain for escape they may shoot them self in the foot. If Kat has nothing to dash to or dashes in and doesn’t get a reset they are dead.

[@Chief-rx5zr]

Assassins have a lot of room to escape, get in and out etc, but if they legitimately mess up they often will get popped by their very target.

[@LuisSoto-fw3if]

@@Chief-rx5zr Pyke says hi

[@yoboiaizen7731]

You are alone while splitpushing or farming, and then Nocturne full engage you with R-W-E-Q what is your counterplay? Im pretty sure there is no one, not even Zhonya since if u timed it bad u still getting the 2.25 sec Fear

[@KunoichiLoL]

You just mentioned that you failed your counterplay (zhonyas). The video literally says Slayers are a class, where the counterplay is based on a players skill But then again, counterplay is not only micro. Youre alone against a nocturne in the enemy team. Find the issue

[@yoboiaizen7731]

@@KunoichiLoL yeah this is the point, im talking as a Nocturne main, sometimes they either go 5 all together or if Nocturne catches someone alone there is literally no possible counterplay unless u are...Fiora (?), sometimes i feel bad for them

[@KunoichiLoL]

@@yoboiaizen7731 The counterplay simply is dont go alone

[@eldenlorde]

I think my biggest issue with slayers is that many of them are able to nab ridiculously low cooldowns super early on such powerful moves, like Playful/Trickster, so much so that it doesn’t feel like skill, it feels like a 7 second get out of jail free card

[@clubstep8244]

...on a champion that besides this only has a targeted dash and AA reset. This spell is his Half kit

[@Ghost.girI.]

I play since season 3, and I usually play fighter or skirmishers, so trust me when I say I don't feel like assassins are broken since my classes aren't too bad against them. I just wanna clarify one thing that bothers me. You can't say something is skill expressive or call its counterplay "skill expressive" when the frontloaded damage is so obscene. It's either so ridiculous it takes no skill or it is and it takes calculated aggression and engage to surgically remove a target. The amount of damage assassins frontload is too much. I remember old Zed with Bork, I remember even broken stuff like damage reduction R Khazix, and back then the damage was not this insane as it is today because of power creep making everything more dopamine inducing and less skill based. Ain't nothing skillful about a Stridebreaker Shaco one shotting your carry by right clicking them, ain't nothing skillful about gored rinker Talon point click Q your carries and one shotting them, ain't nothing skillful in Rengar one shotting something in one Q and healing for 1K when facing any retaliation. Some assassins are actually skillful like Akali, she takes longer to burst you, takes a lot of skill to do so in a proper teamfight and her burst is less than a conventional assassin due to her sharing diver capabilities as well, but no, most assassins aren't skill expressive, just explosive and flashy which make people think they are.

[@cat-.-]

The other day I got pyke in aram and I played him for the first time, without even trying I ended up 28/9. I’m an ADC main and I don’t think I ever got 28 kills in any game

[@ssiiimmon]

my biggest gripe is that even if theyre behind, they can still kill like its nothing. in my mind im thinking if theyre behind they should act behind unless they get to take advantage of an opportunity or make way for those opportunities to appear but ive seen way too many slayers be behind but still feel like a bigger threat than they should be for theyre score and performance.

[@rolooky2211]

"Also bramble vest counters pretty much every AD fighter in the game" One of the reasons that I've been critical of Var's videos is that there tends to be a strange moment where Var references the meta at the moment and that meta is changed by the time the video is published. I really like the Riot champion classes. It's extremely helpful in understanding the archetypes of the designs in a very large game. I enjoy this series. It's not going to devalue in information besides these little asides that kind of are rendered moot by like the tiniest patches. The details about items are not necessary. I think that if you were instead to reference the effects these items give, like shields and damage reduction, you'd find they wouldn't be tied to meta builds and remain valuable information even beyond little patches that redirect itemization. Also, the trifecta of Tank - Healer - DPS is kind of broken in League. There are very few dedicated healers in the game. That role doesn't exist in the framework of the game. What does exist is the League client is that it has these 5 different qualities attributed to every champion in the game: Damage, Toughness, Control, Mobility, and Utility No one class has a monopoly on any of these characteristics. To simplify this really complex system into the standard multiplayer roles of Tank - Healer - DPS is just wildly inaccurate.

[@hi-i-am-atan]

plus the "tank" of that triad doesn't ... really exist in league. i mean, sure, the bulkier champs in league can _kinda_ control the enemy team's "aggro" through being enough of a threat that they can't be ignored, but that's all theory and zero mechanics. even if a volibear runs down your marksman, your talon doesn't have to focus him down just because he got clipped by voli's immolate aura - he can just hop the walk and murder the enemy caitlyn as well. plus even though it's called crowd control, pure tanks tend to have limited ways to control crowds all that well; most can only really keep a single target truly locked down, with it being a _pretty big deal_ when they manage to land a five-man knockup or the like. which is quite the far cry from how many dudes an mmo tank can keep aggro'd to themselves - to the point where if you actually made a champ that stacked aggro on enemies they hit and auto-taunted enemies that got too many stacks, they'd _probably_ be incredibly busted

[@ascvb3]

The annoying part is slayer's potential. Conceptually, they win. They have all the tools to beat anyone, they just need to use it right. I feel like that actually places the burden of skill on their enemy, who is inherently disadvantaged. In a game where players should be very close in skill, slayers often require you to be considerably better than someone who should be as good as you.

[@1Dayax]

Around the end your Why Everyone Plays Thresh video you mention playing neutral. As a big fan and long time player of smash bros, rivals of aether and other fighting games, it's a familiar term but I don't really know how it applies to league. Considering how in-depth it could be, it would make a great video idea! Love the videos and keep it up!

[@danielbatista8760]

I second this no idea what "Playing neutral" is

[@VarsVerum]

Neutral game is the part during laning phase where both laners are just hitting minions and pushing wave/freezing, etc. In midgame it's when team goes back and fourth looking for an opening while throwing out whatever poke they can afford. It's relatively the same thing as smash bros where players are keeping a relatively safe distance while trying to look for openings.

[@danielbatista8760]

@@VarsVerum make sense

[@BlitzAssault]

This is the reason why Talon and Qiyana are just consistently OP champions in high elo. The less mistakes the player piloting them does, the more he is rewarded. Now I won’t lie when I saw that Talon’s kit is overloaded but bad Talon players get crushed by like every champion. I think the better question is, how do we keep Talon players in bronze from inting while also making his winrate in masters + not the highest in the game.

[@stonezhang4617]

As a tft player, slayers have a whole different meaning to me

[@maguc5906]

One aspect I really like in your videos is your neutral stance on topics and champions, even the ones you have a bias for/against. One thing that put me off a lot of league KZbinrs is their very clear and sometimes toxic views on certain stuff, and how they express it. I know league is "known" for it's toxic community and it's easy to get tilted at the game, but trying to see a guide or discussion on the game and having the video full of attacks and downright mean and cruel things about certain players has never sit right with me. Thanks for that

[@jaxonmorkes4382]

Kha’Zix is like, the only champ in the game that is overpowered, but if you nerf him, you can’t do it without completely gutting him.

[@esti5esti816]

Honestly, if you stay near your minions/allies kha can't do shit. If he jumps in, his burst is gone and he will get cc'ed. Kha punishes players that make mistakes. And I played kha for a whole month, nothing else (except autofill) and I was able to get ahead in like 2 games.

[@crimphanto3229]

@@esti5esti816 Comming from a Kha main (me), this is absolutly true. Without Isolation, khazix's high burst damage is non-existent.

[@crimphanto3229]

Also Kha is only strong against Squishies, he cant skirmish against tanks. That's why pretty much any tank can 1v1 khazix, and win.

[@esti5esti816]

@@crimphanto3229 well mordekaiser is an exception, but yeah

[@crimphanto3229]

@@esti5esti816 It depends on Mords build, he usually builds AP and not tank, but his natural armour growth is usually enough to stop kha, especially if mord's ahead. Tbh, its all up to how many Q's Mord hits, especially during his ult.

[@zlatkotasevski9609]

As a bot main... I would have to disagree a bit with the "they are as good as the person playing them" argument. I've seen many times someone miss everything and still killing me... Great video btw

[@justanuff]

that only proves that you played worse than the guy who killed you, or that they were incredibly fed.

[@Justin73791]

My problem with the slayer class is they create game states where you can play the game 'very well' and still lose. This doesn't feel fair or fun, but if your champ can't match a 3 item yone then I hope you can close out the game before 30 minutes. Unfortunately that's often up to your team, and just one mis-positioned team fight will grant yone a triple kill. Now the only way to 'outplay' this fed slayer is not fight at all and slowly lose map control. Your left with a game where you played well, dominated lane, but still lost with almost no win condition because 'class diff'. Just doesn't seem healthy for a class to 1v9 just because they made it to 'late game' when they cs well and have so much kill pressure in their kits. However it's the class that makes the most money, so why nerf your cash cow I guess?

[@koreanbbq6253]

What counters Slayers? Hard CC. Low durability + melee range means anything that pins them in place causes them to pop like a balloon. That being said, the reason many people feel that they have no counterplay is because many champions (especially adcs) do not have reliable hard cc to use. This means that a lot of champions have to rely on teammates to deal with slayers quickly, which in solo is unreliable at best.

[@christhis9597]

Skillfull cc abilities are counters to most champs. Malz R, naut R, liss R

[@coisaslegaisdenerd]

Malza dies when he ults. Naut is... A bot.... Liss is so fucking week....

[@bp_ick3788]

@@coisaslegaisdenerd liss isn't weak shes just fair

[@bp_ick3788]

@@coisaslegaisdenerd idk what you mean by Naut is a bot also malz has a point and click suppress that's ranged

[@malxire]

​@@bp_ick3788 yes but it also suppress him and unlike ww he doesnt have the sustain to take it

[@bp_ick3788]

@@malxire The only weakness is that it suppresses him the fact that its ranged is a half-assed fix but a fix plus he has his passive.

[@Friki_gameplays]

I don't actually play league that much, yet your point makes sense, their biggest weakness is how bad they can be, since most of the time these kinds of characters falls of under the "Yasuo main dilemma", they have either a horrible or incredible performance in a match, not middle point, in fact most of the times these mains are the ones who receive the most backlash/praise after a match, unless there was another teammate that was genuinely amazing or horrible, in resume, high skill floor but infinite payof. for me the best way of approaching these champions is to think of them being in their own game, doesn't have a counter, neither a clear objective or even preferred target because of they being so good against anything.

[@MelonSeedOfficial]

"League of legends has 7 classes" Wild rift players: Five, take it or leave it

[@TripleTSingt]

13:40 onwards: yeah. There are a lot of other eSports that function exactly like that. If the enemy shoots better than you in CSGO, they win. If they scout and micro better in Star Craft, they win.

[@dabear5641]

I completely agree with everything you said, but I do think to this day that even without Serpent's Fang, if I'm 11/2 and an Akali is 0/6 with one item, whilst I'm chilling with 3, and she can 1 shot me through my Shieldbow and BT shield... It gets beyond annoying. I've pretty much given up on ADC play competitively in Ranked. It feels like the margin of error is much more punishing for a marksman than a slayer/assassin. An example you gave is Kha. He could Q your shield and waste that damage... But it'll be back up again with his invis passive within 2 seconds if evolved. Akali isn't even revealed by Control Wards anymore from my experience... It's just kind of disappointing to play an ADC at your best, and still get killed due to a simple thing out of your control... Slayers are almost always stronger than you. They will always have enough mobility to get to you. Without an enchanter, or peel, you may as well sit in the fountain and play on your rubix cube or something.

[@vincentvannoh5687]

I think anathemas chains are a good step towards having actual itemization against them. Its true that its only really good on tanks and couple fighters but the fact that it reduces their tenacity and enables them to be cc'd for longer makes it easier for your whole team to take them down.

[@sanketower]

You're overexaggerating assassins' options. Any Zed player will tell you how Seeker's or Zhonyas/Stopwatch stops him completely in his tracks. And any Qiyana player will tell you how a single Legendary armor item will make the champion unkillable for her. No, assassins don't have that much damage if they're not fed. They only have the damage to fully kill a single target in one rotation (unless you're Zed or Akali which have low CD and low resource drain), and that often requires their entire kit. It doesn't seem that way cuz most assassins are mids who will most of the time be higher level than ADCs and supports, so it's easier for them to kill them since it's like being behind in gold for the botlaner. And, no, THERE ARE classes that shut down assassins. Fighters totally destroy them cuz they have enough innate resistances to survive their burst, and enough damage to kill them just as quickly. Tanks also shut them down cuz, NO, assassins don't usually build armor/MR pen the same way an ADC would, assassins build primarily burst and only opt for pen when there are multiple tanks on the enemy team (or champs building resistances). I agree that Slayer counterplay is "be better at the game than them", and that is a good thing, only if it takes more skill for the Slayer player. The most recent Akali changes made her easier to play for novice players, at the tradeback of having less early game power. Guess what, an ADC doesn't stumble on an Akali until mid-game, so for them is a net negative. For assassins to be fair, Rito needs to stop balancing them around low-elo.

[@alfonzoy5]

He really took 15 minutes to say "If you don't like fighting slayers it's because you suck" lol

[@Abyzdecannes]

Slayers just profit of players who are worse than them but a bad player will never be consistently performing on these champs (except the ones that require the lowest amount of skill in the class). Also, slayers greatly damage the team comp, and LoL is a team game, counterplay can also be team dependent, hard grouping and visions completely counters most of assassins. How many fed assassins have you seen lose because you just group as 5 as much as possible .. Also, completely disagree on 1 point, enchanters completely destroy slayers, unless they are ridiculously fed. Even with a champ like Zed who can outputs ridiculous ampunt of damages in late game, you are NOT killing an adc with 1 defensive item (shieldbow, death's dance, BT, GA ...) through exhaust, kiting, CCs, shields, heal ... It's not happening. And if you're too slow to react then he's better than you he deserves to win, improve your vision management or your reaction time or w/e

[@years-ti7xl]

As an Akali main the only counter play is having a ton of CC unless you're a Yasuo with QSS.

[@glu9862]

Thats basically how u counter every champion in the game, but problem with akali is she Will kill you with 3 dashes from invisibility before you can click lissandra ult on her to kill her

[@itsmyryam5910]

@@glu9862 Well....that's called getting out played

[@itsmyryam5910]

Btw am joking

[@itsmyryam5910]

Ngl tho akali seems to be balanced the only thing that make sher so hated is the shroud but how else would she be able to survive like kha'zix has is invisibility and zed has his shadows ,evelyyn has her ult ,yasuo has the 0/10 power spike, ahri has her ult , fizz has his E , am pretty sure u get that all assassins need some kind of ability to help them survive while I understand how op the shroud may seem and how long it is , don't forget that noob akali's always waste it while pro akali's know when to and when not to use it it's extremely essential for her kit and ngl if riot keeps nerfing her she is gonna end up like hecarim ( rip horse that everybody hated )

[@parafuegosarchive]

@@glu9862 if you are getting hit by 3 dashes before pressing lissandras ult you your fingers or your brain is kinda slow

[@parsley3215]

Regarding your point of them being broken if you don't outplay them. First off , regarding some champions (especially riven,yasuo or akali) my counterplay to them is them being bad? How is that supposed to be fun? It means I have no agency in the laning phase. Secondly,some classes simply can not do anything to outplay them *in some situations*. If I'm playing an enchanter(for context I main supp and top) my counterplay in a 5v5 situation is to have better reaction time than the slayer when they want to dive. All well and good. But in some cases I have no counterplay,or my counterplay doesn't matter. Such as an irelia diving me (Yes I have, in multiple times, cc chained her under tower. Passive saves her), or yone ult through fog of war, or flashes ,so on and so forth. There is some counterplay in those situations, but it's too much in favor of the slayer, IMO.

[@thomaschartier4252]

As a fizz main I loved the video! Amazing insight