JFK Controller SUPER ANGRY with AirFrance | "Call the Tower. We'll discuss it"

[@VASAviation]

"We are taxiing an aircraft. I won't call you during my duty"... Phew, that hurts.

[@bigtime37ja]

Well said mam.

[@davidcope51]

That seems like the right call to me.

[@Quotenwagnerianer]

Put him right in his place. Good on her. Never try to bs a french, they don't suffer fools.

[@deeseeeit]

She’s damn right. It’s always the same atc guy getting into awkward discussions.

[@ptrinch]

@@stephenhenley7452 Getting all the captions correct can be taxing.

[@jamesbartholomew1481]

The irony of a JFK controller complaining about non standard phraseology

[@HighOctane-wo6cm]

He needs kennedy Steve to tutor him on how to be civil but business like at same time !

[@dew9103]

That runway had 3 near misses I can name off the top of my head for a reason

[@JM-75003]

Hope the FAA sees this. That controller needs some retraining.

[@girodeitalia2259]

Let's face it, that's probably the only way this guy is ever going to get a girl to call him

[@mandowarrior123]

There's no way in hell she rang that number. Though her captain may have, assuming she's FO.

[@jaalcaid]

@@mandowarrior123 She may be the captain tho

[@clickster1883]

😂🤣😂

[@craterglass]

"Alexa, where is the closest burn center?"

[@MrPomelo555]

Rude

[@zaidkanaan3874]

Kudos to the French lady for not taking any of that controller’s shit

[@mattk8810]

Bro. Air france moves slow AF

[@zaidkanaan3874]

@@mattk8810but still MOVING albeit a bit slow, but she shouldn’t have to insist to the tower 5 times that they’re moving. 10 knots is good enough especially taxiing a B777 in JFK through a high traffic intersection. And then the controller gets butt hurt and keeps asking them repeatedly to call the tower. Seemed pretty unprofessional in my opinion.

[@Angelum_Band]

​@@mattk8810And? What is the problem hotrod?

[@Angelum_Band]

​@@zaidkanaan3874The ATC operator is probably one of those Buttigieg's DEI hires.

[@mtnman1984]

@@Angelum_Band or he's just a dick.

[@TheHikingHoosier]

"Air France continue taxi." - "We're taxiing" - "No you're not" - "Yes we are" - "No you're not - "Yes we are"

[@mathieub1200]

She moving slow. 🐢

[@SpaceGeek321]

Ahhhh Kennedy Karen makes a third appearance this week

[@trainsplanesmore]

"I know you are, but what am I?"

[@Tomcat304]

​@@mathieub1200 My Grandma walks faster than their taxi!

[@consortiumxf]

@@trainsplanesmore That was exactly my first thought too 😁 So instead I offer "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you." Ahhhh, grade school recess. Good times.

[@MeerkatADV]

Controller needs to switch to decaf.

[@mandowarrior123]

He picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue.

[@az_pit_viper4270]

He's definitely a douche bag

[@meyague]

​@@mandowarrior123 Did this comment make sense to you before you posted it?

[@MaynardFreek]

@@meyaguedo you get the reference?

[@mrpstapley]

@@MaynardFreek I did and I'm sure many others did. Just ask Jonny.

[@apexalpha2924]

This time the tower guy needs to calm down.

[@mikhailswartz]

😂😂 I see what you did there!

[@LurkerPatrol5]

“You are telling us to relax, but you need to relax”

[@russianfighterpilot]

I GOT THAT REFERENCE! It sure sounded like the same guy.

[@MarkPalmer1000]

I see the pattern with his lack of patience, they are working this tower fellow way too hard.

[@billrussell4832]

People were clowning the Aeromexico pilots for doing too much, little did they know about NYC controllers. The most unprofessional controllers in the world

[@ajmalrambocus4963]

So glad the AF crew didnt take the bs from that controller

[@qbi4614]

Yes ?!?! and nearly case an accident from her entitlement Arrogant as F

[@nster3]

Why is everyone so hung up on the ATC? Air France clogging up the channels with arguing, just CALL THE TOWER LATER, air your grievances then. It doesn't matter who is wrong or right, clogging up the radio is definitively wrong, more so than an ATC wanting an unnecessarily call.

[@nautiloxx]

@@nster3Tower was the one clogging it constantly bugging AF

[@a_goblue2023]

@@nster3atc is super unprofessional here, there is absolutely no reason to be bothering Air France with copying a number while there on an active runway, they could very easily ask them that once there entering the ramp, and secondly there is no reason atc should be acting with that aggression, AF was asking for clarification to cross, they didn’t do anything wrong and doesn’t deserve that treatment, atc needs to held accountable for their actions

[@johny5400]

@@nster3 AF has not even once clogged the channel lol, are you okay? :D

[@alanpagez]

Call the tower while taxing an A350?? For real hope FAA investigate

[@Danimalpm1]

The FO isn’t taxiing the plane, but yeah, the controller needed to chill out and be patient.

[@blueskiestrevor5200]

The FAA doesn't care about keeping controllers to high standards. They only come down hard on pilots

[@Misterdu64]

@@Danimalpm1why wouldn’t they taxi it?

[@Danimalpm1]

@@Misterdu64 The captain is responsible for taxiing and the FO would handle the radio.

[@ritchie222]

@@Danimalpm1 At Air France, FO is taxiing the plane if he/she is PF. ;)

[@yume-9289]

I’m sorry but he’s crazy. He has to stop being this aggressive

[@virginiatyree6705]

He started very calm. v

[@jabbothyheart]

No he didn't. The tone of his voice from the very beginning was screaming "you all are just pesky nuisances, I am the ultimate superlord and you better not dare question anything I say or do".

[@virginiatyree6705]

@@jabbothyheart , Ok...😘

[@mathieub1200]

He was calm but she said to cross on active runway with a plane landing at the same moment. That triggered him

[@virginiatyree6705]

@@mathieub1200 , Thanks for your insight. I heard that too & commented without watching the complete post. It all went down hill from rhe "the phone number". v

[@blackwolf1475]

Great response from the AF crew. It's not so easy to find the words to reply in a foreign language when you're confronted to such condescending remarks (that are always aimed at foreign airlines pilots, probably because the controller knows he has language advantage). And if I were that controller, I would quit and do something else less stressful before dying from cardiac arrest. Him getting all grumpy and rude whenever something happens clearly shows that just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[@mishibird]

And because she’s a woman.

[@phillee2814]

@@mishibird Or because you're a misogynist.

[@qbi4614]

nearly case an accident from her entitlement Arrogant as F

[@NoJusticeNoPeace]

"Manges la merde" would probably be understandable.

[@blackwolf1475]

@@NoJusticeNoPeace you don't win anything by insulting, whether you do it in a foreign language or not. But the pilots probably said a few things like that off frequency.

[@superkjell]

Aviate - Navigate - Communicate - Then call the tower

[@blueskies275]

Ahaha bro, that’s what we do ahah. Made my day 🤣

[@gwmgbwi]

When she said they were still going 10 knots, I dont think she was lying. So the appropriate thing for ATC to say would be “sorry for the confusion,” and move the F on!

[@VASAviation]

But ego...

[@teelo12000]

ATC never said "possible pilot deviation" so did we ever find out wtf he wanted?

[@skyecommander2169]

@@teelo12000probably wanted her number😉

[@bandwevil]

They definitely slowed down after crossing, look at the gap to the AAL behind them when they're on the runway and then after they've crossed, AAL had to get a lot closer to clear 22R. Impossible to tell if they actually stopped, but I highly doubt they were going 10 knots.

[@andysPARK]

Agree with OP.

[@crazeazn]

ATC needs an attitude check.

[@DomManInT1]

Or an altitude check? Maybe AirFrance needs to drop him from high up so he can have a better view.

[@bosshog8844]

I have n fatigue.

[@akiko009]

It's New York. Half of them talk like that. And the other half is merely getting ready to talk like that.

[@povertyspec9651]

Democrats

[@crazeazn]

@@akiko009 possibly but ATC does need to keep a very level head for all.

[@cheapercharlie]

Victor has gone into the rabbit hole that is JFK.

[@VASAviation]

And I have more... and one emergency yesterday.

[@giordanodominutti7649]

@@VASAviation that s cool, great job as always

[@ea7654]

Air France has become very popular at JFK lately 😂

[@mathieub1200]

I love this controller! Finally some action 😂 He was right tho, don't say to cross bullshit when last instruction was to HOLD SHORT 22R. To cross? Really.

[@ishan4763]

@@VASAviation What was it?

[@GyrisCap]

Yeah im not calling the tower for that. Write a report, keep the tapes, and then we see what happens. Yes, she asked in a wrong manner. Was it necessary to make it such a big issue, NO.

[@RetreadPhoto]

It’s the one instance I’ve seen where I wouldn’t have called. It’s all on the tape. Would almost bet money when he got stuffed, and robbed of the opportunity to flex, posture, rant, and berate, he’d have just moved on without filing anything. Possible violation my eye, he just wanted to browbeat.

[@uniqueurl]

​@@RetreadPhotobeautifully put together comment.

[@HSUEA001]

i dont like your comment. your gonna need to call the tower too... ;)

[@RobFeldkamp]

What happens if you don't call?

[@wildgurgs3614]

​@@RobFeldkamp Dont call, controller files a report. Do call, controller may still file a report but you have a chance to explain your side of the incident first.

[@goodshipkaraboudjan]

Don't blame her at all. As an Aussie working the E3 thing in the US the phraseology is a joke. I once heard JFk pull the "Keep it rolling" without giving a clearance to a Turkish plane and they did the right thing and stopped on the holding point. The controller then got all pissy and had a fit.

[@nster3]

Yea, exceptnone of that happenned here? Being pissy about ATC giving you a number is wrong, doesn't matter if ATC is being unreasonable, you air those grievances not on the radio of JFK

[@xheralt]

@@nster3 She wasn't being pissy, she shrugged it off with a "whatever.." sort of response (because it was mountain-out-of-molehill bs to begin with); if she got pissy later, it was because he was hounding her on freq, is she supposed to _like_ that? HE was the unprofessional one, not her.

[@mytech6779]

New York phraseology is a joke, most of the USA is much better. The FAA is a joke that doesn't enforce even standards across the country, district offices are allowed to do their own thing and are staffed from locals so you get cliques that form over time.

[@TheBlooRayChannel]

I live in Texas, and every time I go to New York I feel the need to sharpen up my passive aggressive skills. Fine for regular stuff. Absolutely unacceptable for air traffic control. Far too often and it has to be investigated.

[@Peter-sv4mk]

Being passive aggressive is like the opposite of stereotypical New York attitude.

[@Republic3D]

@@Peter-sv4mk Both New York and New Jersey is aggressive-aggressive. At least that's my experience. 😅

[@EVE101Patt]

legend has it JFK tower still waits on that call... ^^

[@somejackball]

😅

[@ryanlester761]

😂😂

[@davidkavanagh189]

If I were her, I wouldn't bother calling. If they didn't actually stop then they didn't do anything wrong.

[@allgrainbrewer10]

@@davidkavanagh189yea. Tower can call his mommie and cry to her.

[@Tomcat304]

If she calls as slow as she taxi, it might be some time in 2026!!!!

[@nmealey]

One of them sounded like they were being a dick, and he didn't have a french accent.

[@soccerguy2433]

ATC is in the right. Why transmit the word "cross" at a super busy airport.

[@guneetify]

​@@soccerguy2433where does it say you are not allowed to use a particular word at an airport, no matter how busy? That's basic airmanship. When in doubt....you ask!

[@Quotenwagnerianer]

@@soccerguy2433 Because that is proper ICAO phraseology. You say "Ready to Cross RW x".

[@jamesknight3070]

The problem here is America uses an unofficial phraseology unto itself, whilst the rest of the world uses an Internationally agreed upon phraseology.

[@DavidDavis311]

@@jamesknight3070since we invented the airplane we get to choose.

[@jim7379]

JFK controllers always very aggressive. In any case that is not improving safety. Also very often they use their american slang instead of ICAO standard phraseology and they think it's appropriate to treat pilot like little kids at school when pilots ask confirmation.

[@Peter-sv4mk]

Air France's phraseology was worse than the tower's.

[@whatilearnttoday5295]

It is only a matter of time before hundreds die in an event. Thing is Airport Operators and FAA have already factored in the insurance costs on this inevitability.

[@HighOctane-wo6cm]

Kennedy Steve was kind of chilled in a business like manner !

[@fToo]

and if often seems to be female pilots that the JFK controllers attack

[@thx2434]

I always ask for confirmation if I’m in doubt especially when things are busy!

[@poetpilot]

American ATC needs a reality check. And an ego check. And a BS check. Well done AF012 for keeping your cool and showing him up.

[@chrisheifner]

You sound like a beta male french pilot...

[@yellow13.]

Agree, the attitude is the worst in the world. Id have told him to fuck off regarding the number.

[@nster3]

Just because someone annoys you by asking for an unnescessary call doesn't give you the right to give attitude and clog up the radio. 2 wrongs don't make a right. Everyone involved sucked here

[@blayworld]

The teenage pride of the controller trying to make the pilot who he knows is controlling a massive aircraft call the tower is pathetic.

[@n003lb]

Your totally ignorant of the tens of thousands of lives this guy is responsible for in hundreds of aircraft he deals with daily. I cut him quite a bit of slack, honestly, because 99% of people wouldn't last 5 minutes doing his job without a breakdown that costs lives. Even 90% of experienced ATC couldn't handle this job.

[@ConnAshby]

​@@n003lbAll of those words you just typed - all of them - don't change the fact that he's acting immaturely. He's in the wrong here. How does all the crap you typed have any relevance?

[@saintchuck9857]

@@n003lb And he is in that 90%. How are you cutting someone responsible for even 1 life slack for immature behavior like this?

[@richmilktea9332]

@@ConnAshby Do me a favor and check the replay of that altercation. How many departures are waiting for 22R and do you notice that both 22L/R are being used for arrivals as well? Yes his attitude wasn't certainly the best but what about the pilot? "Okayyyy" is not a professional response to a high pressure situation. "All the crap" is relevant because you have to look at the big picture that he is not handling 1 aircraft but 15+ at a busy airport not some regional airport...

[@ro-86alkonost78]

@@richmilktea9332 attitude problems should not be tolerated. The "high pressure situation" to cut him a slack is just a psychological BS to defend disrespectful behaviors. If they can't handle the pressure, then he should take a day off or leave, it's easy. Nobody forced him to be an ATC. Anger issues have zero place in his job. He's already an adult, so he should know what's good or bad.

[@matthewa8713]

That poor ATC gentleman needs a time out.

[@soccerguy2433]

Not really

[@waltblackadar4690]

@@soccerguy2433 How so? The controller grossly overreacted to a very simple request. Then acted all butthurt about it.

[@d0m1nu27]

@@soccerguy2433 Yes really

[@az_pit_viper4270]

No, he just needs to become an HOA president so he can feel better about himself

[@mathieub1200]

Why did she said to cross? Last instruction was to HOLD SHORT.

[@wurm90125]

Controller is being an asshole. She held short. Didn't incur the runway. He has nothing to complain about. There's no deviation other than a clarification or repeat of his order.

[@matthewmcewen1]

Man he really wanted them to call the tower 😅

[@goodshipkaraboudjan]

JFK is always a $h!t show to get in and out of, the city port runs the ground and ramp and the FAA and them don't talk. Flew in many times with a HKG based carrier then did the ACMI thing based in the US. It's the bottom barrel stuff from them, difficult yes, but professional and competent - no. Hong Kong is a dream compared to JFK.

[@ZoranDekic]

Bro liked the female french accent, wanted to talk privately :)

[@mathieub1200]

😂

[@guitarstitch]

@@ZoranDekic It was a very pleasant accent to listen to. Her calm but expressive demeanor makes it that much more delightful.

[@ZoranDekic]

@@guitarstitchshe got him at “ouhkay” 😍

[@billywhizz6483]

Totally unprofessional from the controller... needs anger management.

[@Tomcat304]

He is working numerous aircraft. If she wants to taxi that show at a busy airport, she needs to be reassigned to an airport with almost ZERO traffic!!!

[@RickOSidhe]

So, in your professional opinion, how fast should they have been taxiing? 15 kts? 20? 30?

[@Sidthedentist]

@@Tomcat304Sounds like you’re the controller. What’s your home address?

[@Ruka-f7k]

@@Tomcat304we found him

[@dew9103]

I don’t think he’s angry, he’s just from new york

[@LeTangKichiro]

Shameful conduct by ATC. Why is it never Amsterdam ATC, Heathrow ATC or Frankfurt ATC? Why mostly American ATC, why very often JFK or SFO? Come on, guys! You need to do better. You are not the only people with a busy airport. But somehow, others make a much better job. Get that stupid ego out of the way!

[@BenjaminBeckerBerlin]

To be fair, Frankfurt ATC doesn't even allow recording ATC transmissions, so whatever goes down there we'll never know.

[@mytech6779]

British wartime radio laws leftover from WW2 prohibit recording (and possibly even listening to) aviation radio communications.

[@FlightMate]

@@BenjaminBeckerBerlin I'm curious how then enforce it? Recording VHF is cheap and easy.

[@BenjaminBeckerBerlin]

@@FlightMate It's classified as a misdemeanour with (theoretically) up to two years jailtime, so I guess people don't take chances. At large airports you do see spotters with the little buttons in their ears but they're usually super hush about it and remove them when police shows up. I'm sure that lots of people receive and record it at home, but streaming it online is another matter (liveatc etc. would never do it).

[@getyoursupervisor8519]

@@BenjaminBeckerBerlin not ALLOWED in Germany, nothing to do with Frankfurt specifically...

[@johnhutto71]

Her "okaaaaay" in response to his lecture was glorious.

[@meyague]

Unprofessional*

[@phillee2814]

@@meyague Have it your way: Her "okaaay" in response to his unprofessional lecture was glorious.

[@Peter-sv4mk]

His "lecture" was warranted, that was a terrible way to ask if the controller forgot about them holding short. The passive aggressive "okaaay" when he explained why is what escalated it, if she hadn't been so flippant about the correction I doubt he gives them a phone number.

[@marz_mitzi]

@@phillee2814 nah, her okaaay was unprofessional.

[@phillee2814]

@@Peter-sv4mk No it was not - You would think he had never encountered anyone speaking English with any accent other than his own local one OR anyone for whom English is a foreign language, but even if it was unclear (hint: It wasn't to any competent in English comprehension) a simple clarification is all that is necessary or desirable.

[@aime_33]

"Air France 012, Kennedy tower, negative, hold short 22R for traffic on x mile final" all this fella had to say

[@yce1234]

Wow/ that controller needs to take a break or work a different freq.

[@4rni]

maybe he wanted an "extensive talk" with the Pilot/Copilot of AF? :D

[@wewillrockyou1986]

Needs a break full stop, off the frequency, maybe a different job... Could clean the bins and desks around the tower maybe...

[@MichaelWillems]

Work a different job.

[@butchieblock9118]

Yes! Seems like time for a Sabbatical!!

[@wewillrockyou1986]

That guy needs to calm the hell down, very unprofessional. The quality of controlling at a lot of US airports is really in the gutter, JFK and Bay area leading the charge.

[@RetreadPhoto]

Not surprisingly, the airport with the most foreign pilots who couldn’t pass a valid English test domestically.

[@OOTurok]

Hasn't JFK always been like this though? Student pilot here... I've always heard that JFK had a reputation for this, like going back to the 80s.

[@priyanshuhazra8644]

​@@RetreadPhotoI'd love to know what part of the convo between the Air France crew and the Tower controller did you not understand...cause that was proper English to me...as for the phraseology issue, THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND AMERICA, we all use the same aviation phrases but clearly America is an exception.

[@caspianmerlin6434]

@@RetreadPhoto There was nothing wrong with the quality of the English of either of the Air France pilots.

[@qwerty112311]

@@priyanshuhazra8644unless it revolves around Liberia, it revolves around the US. There are exactly two countries in the world that use both English and imperial, which aviation uses as the standard.

[@Dima_from_NC]

I think that I missed the part where airfrance did something wrong

[@jordanfletcher04]

Worthy of a phone call? They got told off on frequency and didn't argue. That should have been the end of it! The controller decided he would get smart when they were crossing the runway because he was stressed.

[@teelo12000]

Hes mad that she asked for clearance to cross the runway instead of waiting for him to give clearance. He never said "possible pilot deviation" though so he knows she did nothing wrong.

[@AdamTheJensen]

I think it was about phraseology? Normally the aircraft would say "AF012 holding short runway 22R, request permission to cross" but instead the pilot truncated to "AF012 to cross?" This could be mistaken as the pilot repeating back an incorrect call, which might indicate that there's about to be a runway incursion. That said, the tower was really overreacting and could have simply said something like "AF012, Negative, hold short 22R. Please use clear phraseology to request permission." No further discussion needed.

[@jaydeeification]

AF12 asked first if they could cross the runway rather than waiting for the tower to give them the instruction. That''s not the right way to handle things at a busy airport, and it triggered the ATC, who then got way angrier than is warranted.

[@ro-86alkonost78]

@@jaydeeification you talk about right way to handle things at a busy airport? Then the ATC shouldn't have focused his anger on Air France 012 and should've refrained from making unnecessary transmissions to them. At least Air France 012 asked for clarification.

[@PetrolHeadBrasil]

This whole "diva moment" because AF012 simply ASKED if she could cross 22R... For a change, another arrogant controller at JFK...

[@AdamTheJensen]

I understand that AF012's call could have been mistaken as an incorrect readback, in which case there was a real possibility of a runway incursion. However, the controller could have very simply said "AF012, Negative, hold short 22R. Please use clear phraseology to request permission." No reason for him to get all up in arms about it.

[@bethhentges]

@@AdamTheJensen Exactly

[@johnthompson5741]

@@AdamTheJensenvery good reason for him to be up in arms about it. He doesn’t want a Tenerife on his hands because he didn’t address the issue further. Definitely was overly rude after, berating her about calling so frequently, but his concern was well warranted

[@chaoacne]

You don’t ask about crossing a runway when there’s traffic on final… specially when they’re taking their sweet time taxiing the airplane.

[@behindthen0thing]

You dont sit at an active runway and say "cross" unless you are about to cross.

[@JustAnotherBritishGuy]

So my guy was so pissed they used 1 second of his frequency he spent the next few minutes calling them out on it... hmmm

[@mvaquero777]

This guy is always threatening everybody with this freaking phone call. Is he 10 years old or what?

[@Iam_Dunn]

You can never get a taxi in NY when you need one! 😂 ❤ :)

[@drb1979]

The boyfriend of that controllers wife also doesn't like him.

[@jameslong1602]

😂

[@casperlf]

What an absolute muppet of a controller

[@Roger__Wilco]

Oscar the grouch :D

[@rickswanracing3139]

This ATC “godmode” horse$%^& is pretty ridiculous and unprofessional.

[@spotted5]

I understand the phone number to clarify what verbiage to use on the radio, but to ask them to call while they are still on a taxiway is insane. Hopefully it was just a reminder that was worded poorly. Seems like a bit of an overreaction by the tower, but probably frustrated with the stress thinking AF was going to cross

[@ThanhPham96]

Tower was right on getting mad at AirFrance. If they want to cross in that situation, simply call up with their call sign should be more than enough. Saying "cross runway" while traffic is landing could lead to runway incursion or landing traffic going around out of precautionary, which will open a whole another can of worm. He was over the line, asking them to call while waiting for their gate, though.

[@mandowarrior123]

​@@ThanhPham96no, there is no justification to get angry in a professional setting whatsoever, especially when lives are on the line.

[@FairAndSquareJV]

She was not announcing to cross the runway, she was meaning that they were ready to cross.

[@xenofastiq]

​@@ThanhPham96She was asking, she wasn't announcing that she was gonna cross my guy. Tower was completely in the wrong, and needs some anger management classes.

[@j.heilig7239]

And he was NOT using ICAO standard phraseology.

[@orig_gee_man]

This air traffic guy sounds as a potsntial risk for passenger safety

[@abxorb]

Controller probably mad the bakery ran out of baguettes that morning, and decided to take it out on the first French people he encountered. 😂

[@muhdiversity7409]

lmao

[@belmarmom]

I heard they were out of croissants.

[@FerrowTheFox]

On one side I can absolutely understand the issue ATC had with AFR saying "to cross", probably gave him a heart attack as another plane was cleared to land. However he was way out of line to keep pestering them about that call. He should know the earliest to expect a call is when the plane is parked at the stand and the crew has done their checklists. Having a talk and clarifying is ok, but keeping the crew from doing their jobs is certainly not.

[@arthurclarke905]

Call the number and ask for pepperoni pizza and two cokes.

[@stoerenungeheuer543]

They are French! 🍷🥖

[@Roger__Wilco]

@@stoerenungeheuer543 French people like pizza and coke too sometimes!

[@aaronlee2240]

I think the Air France pilot done the right thing by checking their taxi instructions before crossing a active runway, many pilot's didn't and have been on this channel for different reasons!

[@LochanDoesStuff]

JFK on the spotlight

[@matt_b...]

Next week: SFO controllers? Or, where's that guy from KSQL!?

[@consortiumxf]

@@matt_b... Don't forget the anger issues at the San Marcos (HYI) tower! Yelling at student pilots, yelling at FAA checkride people...they don't discriminate. They hate *everyone* 😶‍🌫

[@priyanshuhazra8644]

This is kind of the everyday bull 💩 we have to deal with over in America as foreign pilots... insanely impatient and overly rude ATC. I'm sorry lad but if I'm the pilot, i ain't giving you a call cause you are trying to belittle the Air France crew for a slight issue...Roll the tapes and then my boss talks to your boss and we see what happens...but that's just me, and we at Air India have some tough ol bosses I can assure you

[@priyanshuhazra8644]

Or maybe he just wanted to ask her out, so he catfished her insta and saw she was married

[@mandowarrior123]

They really think clearances are orders. If air france wants to taxi at 0.5 knots they can, it's on ATC to check a runway is clear before giving a clearance. But perhaps its just personal as I almost became one with a ryanair flight that was stuck on the runway as a passenger. 'Clear to land' yeah, thanks atc, very clear. I'm glad our lives are worth less than your KPIs

[@ro-86alkonost78]

@@priyanshuhazra8644 if you don't call, you lose. However, I agree with you that you can file a report, your boss should talk to his boss.

[@priyanshuhazra8644]

​@@ro-86alkonost78Nobody is losing out, i can definitely tell the ATC that 'I don't wanna waste my time with him" and that he can file a report and our bosses can talk to each other... he cannot do a thing about it, that's how it works mate.

[@AdamWawrzynek]

This time ATC was causing more danger than AF012 crew. He was unnecessarilly escalating drama over something that was solved quickly by responding "hold short" to AF012, when they asked for crossing runway. Going further he was just keeping radio busy and adding much more stress than needed, while simply losing time for unprofessional grunts. Girl from AF012 could use better words? Yes. But ATC lost his professional mask here and behaved like arrogant high ego boy. If I was a pilot, in the end I would even file a report.

[@psinclairjr]

The ATC was very wrong! This is a situation i would let the Company take care of the phone call. I think the ATC owes Air France 012 an apology

[@georgegonzalez2476]

She said "012 to cross", which is ambiguous at best and would spike my blood pressure as there is a plane landing. And situationally she was told to hold short, It's obvious to the controller that she isn't going to want to park there, so it was his turn to allow a crossing, not her turn to ask again two bleepin seconds later on a busy frequency.

[@ro-86alkonost78]

@@georgegonzalez2476 she was just asking albeit in an improper way. ATC could've just said, "Air France 012 heavy negative, hold position." Is it hard to do what without focusing his anger on her? You talk about busy frequency? Then why does this degenerate ATC keep on focusing his anger on her such as arguing with her while she was taxiing and even telling her "I'm still waiting for you to call the tower", these are all unnecessary in a busy frequency.

[@bicolouredprawn]

Hopefully Kelsey will do a reaction to this

[@henrydenner5448]

I am fully in support of that idea. I love his way of breaking it down. I find him quite entertaining to listen to. He is quite quirky and I really enjoy that. 😊

[@MrPomelo555]

@74Gear copy this?

[@CadizRacing]

Embarrassing display of unprofessionalism from the controller. I hope he reads the comments.

[@kaboom9081]

@1:10 Air France's "ohhhhkayyyy" while giving him the middle finger LOL

[@lawsonthepunmaster9010]

The Air France Pilot was doing what they needed to do, AVIATE, NAVIGATE, then communicate.

[@ajtoumeh9477]

Professional controller would be reasonable and patient with foreign pilots.. NOT take advantage of their English being a second or third language!!! PLUS is it the best time to ask them to copy the number when they are literally over the bloody runway??

[@Andrei_Listopadoff]

it's such a contrast with that calm nice russian speaking JFK controller from recent videos.)

[@warsurplus]

Easy big fella.

[@Commanderraf]

Controller sounded angry, like an old man trying to return his soup at the deli.

[@amorporchile2958]

JFK controllers here again!

[@theaviazone1668]

A call to the tower is a little much for asking if your cleared to cross the runway, Surely the controller might have something better to do at a busy JFK than having a discussion about that. The pilot didn't even make a fuss that could warrant a call, she Just said okaaaayyy. And if ten knots is to slow you can always ask them to speed up. and if they say okay, Great. If they say Unable, you have to work around it.

[@segredosdotiosam9989]

Then we wonder why the French treats us like crap when we go to Paris.

[@bahamasteveboatcharter5455]

As a Brit the French have been a pain in the arse long before the invention of the aeroplane😂

[@madjic-uc8hf]

@@bahamasteveboatcharter5455 As a French Brexit was a Relief.

[@bonzaibush4391]

@@madjic-uc8hf yep, thank God for the Brexit, they shoot themselves in the foot with that one

[@j.heilig7239]

They were doing that before the airplane was invented. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

[@Vindicated0721]

New York ATC being hostile and short with pilots. It must be a day that ends with Y.

[@vtsullivan]

Most of them are. But then there is Joanna who welcomes incoming flights to NY and has always been pleasant when I've heard her. She speaks with a slight Polish accent.

[@NickBondar12]

At the end of the day the claims made were falsifiable right. She says 10 knots, he says stopped. Someone is wrong.

[@ThanhPham96]

Controller cleared both plane to cross. There is traffic behind Air France. Without seeing it, I can see Air France slowing down (not fully stopped), anticipating having to write down tower's number. Sure they are clear of the runway but the traffic behind them unable to clear. In tower POV, they are good as stopped prematurely. Tower shouldn't have told them about the phone number to write down until they cleared the runway and well on the other side of the taxiway. Air France should have continuing at the same speed and tell them to standby. Just misunderstanding in a very congested busy space.

[@nosuchanimal6947]

@@ThanhPham96 you mean the display that also showed that aircraft turning around completely and even vanishing while it was holding short of the runway? i'm not sure how much trust i'd put into the accuracy of that data

[@pesto12601]

@@ThanhPham96 lol.. this isn't an accurate representation of the speed and position of the aircraft.. it is just an approximation...

[@ManualFlying]

may be AF was taxiing very slow but imo it is the PIC's decision for safety and perhaps its the crew's first time at JFK... eitherway, ATC could ask nicely to expedite and if it is unsafe, ATC can cancel the clearance of the traffic behind or the other traffic approaching 22R

[@victormartin3530]

@@nosuchanimal6947JFK airport has multiple ground radars to locate where each plane and any truck are on the airfield. Flight Radar doesn’t have access to this radar and only uses ADSB

[@okay_then3337]

Air France pilots played it well here. Let him get all worked up over nothing then refuse to call the tower 🤣. Controller was definitely fuming and ready to blow up on them on the phone judging by his impatience over the call.

[@fabianganz5916]

Every time I am shocked anew at how much aviation relies on radio messages between the tower and the aircraft in such critical flight phases as the final approach to a runway and taxiing. Misunderstandings are inevitable. I mean it is 2024 not the 80's. Everybody has digital maps of the airport layout and where the planes are, but routine instructionsare are given via radio.

[@johnathancorgan3994]

As counterintuitive as it seems, it is precisely because voice radio comms are low tech with much less to go wrong with them that they are used here. Automated systems might be more convenient and "high tech", but can fail in lots of ways that would make comms completely impossible. Source: am both pilot and digital radio communications engineer.

[@secondskins-nl]

There are pretty clear guidelines about separation etc. and there's a reason you need to repeat instructions. I think it's a pretty well functioning system I've a lot of respect for both pilots and ATC because they most of the time stay very calm. I'm no frequent flyer but I like this better than having an automated system which always includes bugs. This ATC controller doesn't seem really happy with his job, the French and female pilots though. Luckily there are phone numbers for that as well.

[@bosshog8844]

@@johnathancorgan3994 always the same boomer response when a safety improvement is glaringly warranted here. "It just werkz good enuf for me." is not an argument you can make. We have to make better systems.

[@colmalley]

No patience with this controller. He needs time out from the job. No phones in the cockpit when on an active taxiway. Well done Air France. Call the tower but ask for his supervisor and log a complaint with the FAA. Too often JFK controllers bully foreign pilots with language advantage. Yes it’s a busy airport but cut out the aggressive attitude. Lots of other busy airports out there and they seem to cope fine.

[@daveluttinen2547]

Perhaps Kennedy Steve will return to consult over-stressed controllers? Someone had their knickers in a knot.

[@meyague]

You think Kennedy Steve didn't have his bad days?

[@daveluttinen2547]

@@meyague : i was friends with people in ATC, both center and tower. No question everyone has a bad day or two (or many). My comment is not a criticism as much as it is a wizened acknowledgement of what you said.

[@oryx3]

I don't get it. Why did he ask her to call the tower at 1:55?

[@cbrad22]

The controller was being a prick. A common trait out of JFK controllers I’m noticing a pattern. Trying to tell the plane it can’t go to the ramp until they call. Good on the pilots for refusing that.

[@robd2184]

The controller is clearly under too much pressure , but that doesn’t t negate the fact ATC are there to help pilots, not bully them into submission ,a nd the captain always has the ultimate say over his aircraft .

[@robertlangham9028]

Another example of everything that is wrong with US ATC. Okay, so initially, the Air France pilot said "wating to cross". Not ideal phraseology but a simple "Roger, hold position" was all that was required. I wish I'd had a Pound for every "we are ready for takeoff" I'd heard over the years. Yes, certain words will make controller's hearts beat a bit faster, but just deal with it. Instead the AFR crew got a tirade of gibberish followed up with harrassment. US ATC dont seriously expect pilots to call the tower during flight? Really? Fortunately, the pilot politely put the controller back in his box. I enjoyed that bit.

[@meyague]

They're not supposed to nor expected to call the tower during flight, where did you get that from?

[@robertlangham9028]

@meyague The aircraft is "in flight" until the aircraft comes to a stop and the door is opened to allow passengers to exit. They were taxiing, and the controller harassed them to "call the tower." The AFR pilot quite rightly refused.

[@meyague]

@@robertlangham9028 That is absolutely incorrect. Nowhere ever has an aircraft been considered "in flight" while taxiing.

[@robertlangham9028]

@@meyague I'd refer you to the definition in 49 USC 46501.

[@meyague]

@@robertlangham9028 You mean when a plane is on a roll for take off? You're aware that's not taxiing, correct?

[@ThePeterHagen]

Why do JFK controllers always have to be that rude? Why have so many discussions on the VHF. Always; "call the tower" what are you trying? Good call from the AF crew! I know the US is different from Europe but still so amazing to hear all the arguing

[@j.heilig7239]

It’s Nu Yawk. It’s what they do.

[@hornetgamer8980]

What trouble would the pilots have gotten into for replying in a tone that was frankly warranted by the end?

[@stoerenungeheuer543]

maybe he hates the french

[@GBOAC]

@@stoerenungeheuer543 and female pilots prob

[@Claudio-tf2om]

Unprofessional Air France pilot

[@jensdewaele465]

I don't see the problem with asking a controller for clearance to cross an active runway. Why would they have to call the tower. AF pilots did nothing wrong imo. ATC JFK is treating pilots like shit

[@python_lordm5896]

Didn't know I needed the clash of JFK attitude and French work culture in my life, but here we are

[@agehall]

Wow, AF pilots doing the right thing for a change. Refreshing.

[@belmarmom]

ATC has to remember that English isn't many pilots' mother tongue. Going into a tizzy because they used wrong phraseology is unprofessional. Slow down, speak clearly and they'll understand you. As a native born American whose first language is English, there are times when even I have trouble understanding what ATC is saying. Some speak like auctioneers, others swallow their words (mumble), some have accents that are hard to understand, and some have all three issues which is a nightmare. If it's a nightmare for me, can you imagine what it's like for foreign pilots? Taking another second or two to enunciate clearly can be the difference between life and death.

[@bethhentges]

“Negative Air Frans 012” would have been sufficient.

[@09shadowjet]

This guy has never been punched on the face, has he?

[@j.heilig7239]

I suspect he’s about to be.

[@jakexou812]

On the "world rudeness scale" 0-10 where 0 is not rude and 10 is completely rude: The French are about a 1 on the scale this time.... New Yorker ATC is clearly 11.

[@kiwiwhispers]

Call the tower? Rapunzel, Rapunzel!

[@MrPomelo555]

😂😂😂

[@MrPomelo555]

👧

[@MrMegaMario64]

Now this one is on the controller no doubt.

[@med_i3z130]

YO THAT CONTROLLER NEEDS TO LOOK OUT HIS MOOD 😂😂😂😂

[@TheGospelQuartetParadise]

Kennedy Steve would have been firm, but not obnoxious.

[@doomhammer5517]

While I understand and agree with most of the comments, I think the controller did have a point that you don't EVER say the word "cross" unless it's a readback of a clearance to cross. If you want to remind the controller you're there/check if you're still supposed to be holding short then the question is implied by the simple phrase "AIr france 012 still holding short runway 22R"

[@Peter-sv4mk]

Yeah, he did a terrible job articulating it, but you're absolutely right. It's pretty obvious the controller just had the shit scared out of him because he just unexpectedly heard someone say "cross" on frequency when he knows there is a plane on short final. Instead of getting pissed though he needs to take five seconds to educate the pilot about a better way to speak up if they thought the controller forgot about them.

[@Sidthedentist]

He was correct, but his ego got the better of him instead of just doing a simple correction over frequency.

[@Peter-sv4mk]

@@Sidthedentist Yeah. Pretty sure the sarcastic "ookkaaay" from the Air France pilot is what pissed him off, I think he was willing to leave it until he explained why he was upset and then she was dismissive of it. Still should've been in better control of his emotions though.

[@Derdonaueschinger]

"REQUEST CROSS RUNWAY" is or at least was ICAO recommended phraseology, what are you on about? www.icao.int/safety/RunwaySafety/Documents%20and%20Toolkits/ICAO_manual_prev_RI.pdf

[@scotty523]

Epic video (and jokes/comments)! For what it’s worth they should just add ‘ALL ARRVLS NO DELAY DURG RWY CROSSINGS’ to taxi charts or even in the ATIS 😄😌

[@MH-ks1ob]

Oh man, would I want to witness that phone call

[@VASAviation]

Nothing would happen in that phone call

[@ro-86alkonost78]

@@VASAviation wish the controller apologizes to the Air France pilots. Giving them a possible pilot deviation just for asking in a wrong manner and getting mad at them is too much and the latter is also something nobody needs.

[@jbreezy101]

The shorthand AF012 used wasn’t the best choice. But cmon tower, calm down! No need to go all the way to a phone #. And maybe they were taxiing when they were crossing. And when they reported that stand is open ATC should have just stfu about the call. Overreaction by ATC. I will call but NOT speak to that ATC. I’d speak to his supervisor

[@isacjohnson8891]

This calling a number thing is only in the US, i dont fly in the US so correct me. Isnt a phone number given only when there is a pilot deviation? There was no pilot deviation here. Or is it when controllers get unhappy and they feel like giving a number

[@johnthompson5741]

The whole “phone number bad, pilot deviation scary” thing is really sensationalized. For the most part it’s a chance for ATC to speak with the crew about what happened and how they can fix it together to avoid another issue. They didn’t DO anything with the plane so there was no deviation, but their call sounded like they were confirming they were cleared to cross an active runway with a plane landing on it which if you remember Tenerife was disastrous due to confusion of readbacks. He definitely went overboard with how many times he asked but it sounded like he’s just trying to prevent any major collisions on his watch

[@mrwp819300]

I'd LOVE to hear that call

[@JH-sf8tf]

ATC , "ready to copy # ???" They got the memo dude !! wtf

[@Astro95Media]

Probably some young buck wanting to feel like he's in total control.

[@darewell7776]

They need to stop giving phone number for no reason

[@jackson3190]

Seems like the controllers screen was not working, nor could they look out the window.

[@liamwood5043]

Sorry but the worst part was him expecting an on-duty crew member to make a literal phone call…all he needed to say was “continue to hold short 22r” and that’s enough sass imo

[@isaaelg90]

Fire this guy please

[@victorgrasscourt3382]

That controller is a bully. Well done to the AF lady pilot for standing her ground.

[@j.heilig7239]

“Lady pilot”? AYFKM? Do call the other person in the cockpit a “gentleman pilot”? How about just “pilot” and drop the sexist crap?

[@m4nu507]

Crossing an active rwy at 10 knots is just stupid, especially since its a straight line into A taxiway, but this escalated unnecessarily. Insisting to talk to the flight crew while they are taxiing might get this controller in trouble, i’d file a safety report.

[@VASAviation]

The transmission of 10 knots was made on the other side of the runway

[@philipnasadowski1060]

This guy is quickly becoming as famous as Kennedy Steve, but for the WRONG reason.

[@VinayakP]

Jackass behaviour by ATC @ 5:18. Is the ATC trying to win some argument contest or something?

[@markthomason2754]

My Texan father in law was a fine corporate pilot for many years. He passed a couple years ago. He knew all about the the JFK controllers and had his own way of getting them to slow a little a speak clearly. On his first call in he would give them a long drawn out "Howdy Yall ". He said that slowed them down every time.