Vegan vs. Carnivore Debate: Science-based Insights | Simon Hill interviewed by Mari Llewellyn

[@DaniCouto]

I have been on a protein-based lifestyle since 2016. Last year huge health problems knocked on my front door. I was pre-diabetic, with high cholesterol and exhausted all the time. My family doctor immediately prescribed me 4 pills. That very day I came home did my research and I got full on a PBWF diet. I am no doctor nor part of any study. The only thing I do is listen to my body and honestly, I have never felt so good in my entire life. I am 52 and I have the energy of a 20-year-old. No more high blood sugar or high cholesterol. It’s unbelievable how our bodies can heal with the right nutrition and NO DOCTOR in the system tells you that. My doctor made fun of me saying “Good thing Dr. Google exists” and my answer was: - Well, in the end, Doctor Goggle brought back my health, YOU DID NOT!

[@veganpowerlab]

I 100% agree with this. You should eat mostly plants and you can include some animal products also for health. However, given that there’s exploitation, abuse and immense suffering behind animal products, I would say it’s a kinder choice to only eat plant based, especially since you can be just as healthy. Why would animals need to go through cruel practices for your food? And, that’s the point of veganism. It’s not a diet, but a moral stance against the commodification of animals for food, clothing and entertainment. It’s about recognizing that they are sentient and deserve moral consideration.

[@tezk8470]

And what about all the animals and habitats destroyed with modern farming, monoculture and chemical and pesticide run off Lol over the place??? U can't pick and choose arguments based on your personal views and call it moral!

[@kennyfinger8306]

@@tezk8470By far, like not even close, most of this is caused directly by animal agriculture. Look it up. For example, how much worldwide crop production is for animal feed vs. human feed? How much antibiotics are used for animal agriculture vs. human crops? Pesticides, fertilizers, pollutants and waste run off, land use, deforestation, water use. All down the line, it’s animal agriculture that contributes the overwhelming proportion of these things.

[@marcusgarvey9933]

At least 100 mice are killed per hectare per year (500/4 × 0.8) to grow grain. Average yields are about 1.4 tonnes of wheat/hectare; 13% of the wheat is usable protein. Therefore, at least 55 sentient animals die to produce 100kg of usable plant protein: 25 times more than for the same amount of rangelands beef, according to Australian study.

[@umbroraban1075]

@@marcusgarvey9933 🤣

[@veganpowerlab]

@@marcusgarvey9933 What are the animals fed? Also, any source for those numbers?

[@greggbambu411]

Simon explained it perfectly.

[@guest-zn8zs]

No😢

[@kst157]

It was a very considered reply & reflects the reality out there … agreed with Simon, very well put. 👍

[@guest-zn8zs]

@@kst157 He can't explain the straight facts and logical arguments for our diets. I saw the interview and he talks about the "danish dietary guidelines", which makes no sense because the foods on there are both processed and unnatural. I am from Denmark myself, and people here who eat a low sat fat vegan diet, have it the worst and get all sorts of problems, and are in general more fatigued, but try to cope and fake it.. So no, I don't agree, I could never from what I have seen and experienced.

[@createdbylink]

​​@@guest-zn8zslol 1% of the Danish population is vegan gtfoh with your fabrications, there is nothing about being Danish that gives you domain over information about health outcomes and guidelines that come from your country. People can read the statistics and the guidelines, and avoiding saturated fat is absolutely beneficial for people longterm. I have no idea who these vegans are which have such poor outcomes but they aren't any I know, and even if true, they can simply adjust their diet like anyone else in the world while still being vegan

[@kristik4789]

@@guest-zn8zs I've seen the guidelines, so not sure what part of it would be classified as "processed and unnatural". Couldn't see any in the recommendations, so would love if you could share your findings. And I am sure you can't talk for all vegans in Denmark to make such a bold statement to say they "have it the worst". Last I checked hospitals aren't filled with "sick vegans" needing lifesaving surgeries or lifelong medications to control their health issues.

[@PardieDiem]

I find it interesting that while most diets say stay away from proccesed foods, seed oils and sugar, there are no diets that are specifically called the no sugar diet or the no processed food diet or the no processed seed oil diet. When it comes right down to it, all of these different diets share that same theme, whether vegan, vegetarian, keto, or carnivor. No processed seed oils, no sugar, and no processed foods, and that is what will make people healthier no matter what diet they choose. In my humble opinion.

[@andrewtrip8617]

You are mistaking an omnivore diet for a carnivore diet,which by definition is meat only ,a few people do it out of medical need . It’s the excess of sugar that causes health problems ,your body makes them out of any food that contains carbohydrates ,that makes them difficult to avoid entirely but easy to control any excess ,

[@luisburgosf]

except about seed oils. You can find more info and interviews with researches on Simon's previous posts.

[@jaap3520]

Video was uploaded an hour ago and some of the comments have already set a perfect example for what Simon talks about in this video.

[@tezk8470]

that's because he promotes an extreme unbalanced diet!

[@CharlieFader]

@@tezk8470 extremely healthy you mean.

[@tezk8470]

@@CharlieFader haha any diet devoid of nutrients and excluding while food groups can't be considered optimal. Hopefully U don't fade away in your middle age....

[@CharlieFader]

@@tezk8470 don't worry, I have no nutritional deficients plus my lipid panel is ideal ;-)

[@tezk8470]

@@CharlieFader just keep eating those beans lol. I'm sure your missus with thank U haha. U know that low cholesterol in older people correlates with higher all cause mortality. Smarter people focus on metabolic health rather than outdated lipid hypothesis.

[@cannuckchick7522]

As Simon says, while there are themes in the science around health and diet, there are so many reasons, both scientific health ones as well as religious/personal ethical choice ones, for an individual to decide how they want to eat. It seems that about the only “absolute” is that a diet too high in highly processed foods will harm one’s health over the long term.

[@ZmogusJaponija]

What thing what puzzles me. While I was low carb/keto and animal products I never saw plant based adds, prosts, even comments. As soon as went plant based all hell broke lose - FB constamtly bombards me with meat, carnivore, farmers associations ads and posts. My comments behind plant based content often challenged, even attacked by carnivores. Serriously, wtf. I just want to be healthier and happier and that seems working well for me.

[@matthewwilliams3827]

Nice little story there.

[@tezk8470]

U need some meat dude. That's what you're made of. Get fit, eat some meat and no junk and you'll be good!

[@tezk8470]

U need some meat dude. That's what you're made of. Get fit, eat some meat and no junk and you'll be good!

[@andrewtrip8617]

I expect you mean omnivores as in ,humans with a mixed diet .If you are being attacked by carnivores ie cats ,stoats polar bears etc then you should buy a gun .

[@LiftingVeganLogic]

Amazing explanation!

[@marcusgarvey9933]

Says a person who support a vegan that wants all animals replaced with human infrastructure

[@marcusgarvey9933]

You want to replace all animals with human infrastructure?

[@salvarunatortuga5396]

Another problem is when someone says " I did my research," it's just code for I Googled it or read something on pubmed. The thing is, you don't really acquire the skill set to do a proper research review and/or analysis that only getting a phd (and a few master programs) can give you. And even if you did obtain these skills by getting your Phd or MD those skills are largley constrained to juat your field of study. So then you have peope listening to nutritional advice from a heart surgen just because he's a MD. And it's why you see the dunning-kruger effect so much now.....especially online.

[@marcusgarvey9933]

Yes. Even top Vegan "experts" constantly claim that weak epidemiological studies have proven causation that meat is bad and plants are essential. In the studies they compare more health conscious vegans with junk eating "meat eaters" that get most of their calories from the worst of plant sources.

[@jhartmac100]

Then who do you listen to? A white coat? What will a degree do compared to blood tests that individual can obtain

[@marcusgarvey9933]

Most vegan and plant based "experts" site very weak and bias epidemiological studies as 100% prove when there are higher level evidence that contradict the narrative

[@salvarunatortuga5396]

@@jhartmac100 Well for one, my comment had nothing to do with blood test. But yes I would trust the white coat with blood test because the average person doesn't know how to properly read a complete blood panel. It's the same as I would trust am building engineering to make skyscrapers. I'd trust a concrete contractor to pour my slab, not a framer who saw it done a few times. I'd trust heart surgeon to replace my heart, not a dentist just because he a did a few rounds in surgery during medschool. We have experts for a reason. Yes, some are morons and probably shouldn't have gotten their qualifications but those are an extreme rarity

[@andrewtrip8617]

@@salvarunatortuga5396 Really it’s the men with degrees and white coats that gave us the Salem witch trials ,Eugenics ,genetic determinism,the atomic bomb ,ultra processed foods covid 19 . By all means listen to them ,but don’t make the mistake of believing they know what’s good for you or mankind .

[@739jep]

You’re doing it wrong Simon! Common sense like this won’t drive subscriber numbers up! 😂

[@azdhan]

Great video! Simon puts out the best info I have come across. Just my 3 cents on this issue (1) Any diet that someone follows and can sustain, that totally gets them from consuming ultra processed highly pallitable transfat rich and toxic preservative laced foods will be best off. This includes vegan, keto, or carnivore. If out of someone’s 80 years of life , even if 50-60 years of that results in a quality of life and cardio metabolic health they may never experienced otherwise, then it is still a win regardless, (2) Anecdotes are a dime a dozen regardless of the diet tribe you belong to. I think po*ing po*ing over all science and research and just putting blind faith in anecdotes is not the best strategy. I listen to all the anecdotes in conjuction with what all the research and science says. Where the anecdotes and research studies align, I follow that path, (3) I am not a hardcore vegan or carnivore, but a self described opportunistic omnivore as I believe it more “truly” reflects how are ancestors ate or closer to how hunter and gatherer societies/tribes with their optimal gut microbial health ate Sometimes I stray and go full Mediterraneanish as this diet has the best research to support claims of good health and disease prevention.

[@veganm8918]

Compassion to other sentient species is extreme? I have not eaten meat in over 24 years. I probably should be dead by now lol.

[@marcusgarvey9933]

At least 100 mice are killed per hectare per year (500/4 × 0.8) to grow grain. Average yields are about 1.4 tonnes of wheat/hectare; 13% of the wheat is usable protein. Therefore, at least 55 sentient animals die to produce 100kg of usable plant protein: 25 times more than for the same amount of rangelands beef, according to Australian study.

[@veganm8918]

@@marcusgarvey9933 British study collared 33 mice and 32 survived harvesting. And it could have been a predator that got the lone disappeared mouse. Many other studies simply show common sense. they run away and temporarily relocate. That paper is bunk.

[@veganm8918]

@@marcusgarvey9933 Buffel grass, brought to Australia by cattle farmers was responsible for fires spreating out of control. That killed 3 billion animals. Also those and other non native species brought in because they grow fast to feed cows better than natural habitat are wiping out native species of plants. The crazy wildfires killing billions are from cattle grazing. Also half the grain or more grown in australia is fed to farm animals. Frequently Australia is unable to meet the demands for the cows, pigs, chickens, etc and hasve to import. Less than 4% of your land is dedicated to growing crops for people and over 50% of your land is dedicated to raising animals for meat and dairy and that is at the expense of every native plant and animal in Australia.

[@marcusgarvey9933]

@@veganm8918 Actually it is the poisons are kill the most sentient animals, not the heavy vehicle, and it is well know that these animals froze in place and get squished.

[@marcusgarvey9933]

@@veganm8918 You can't deny all the video evidence of these massive piles of deceased mice and other sentient animals that died because of plant agriculture

[@carnismiscancer2108]

Great video!

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@TheCompleteGuitarist]

The issue is that people struggle to challenge their own eating habits and choices. Most, though not all, don't like experimenting with food and often the immediate effects of diet change can lead to negative emotional and physical sensations even if the food may have long term health benefits. Often when people lose weight, they feel crap because fat can store toxins or even simply because they have a sugar addiction whose craving is no longer being met and withdrawal symptoms ensue. Gut changes can occur with undesireable effects due to shifts in that environment again even if there are long term benefits leading people either to fear the change or question it. As far as science is concerned, it mostly knows what we need, though not necessarily the best manner in which to obtain it. And scientists can and are often wrong and push specific agendas by going out to look for the answer they want and disregard undesireable results.

[@chrisconklin2981]

What differentiates Vegan from Carnivore is that Veganism has an animal rights ethical component that is lacking in Carnism. Moving towards plant based is better for a more sustainable world. I would add, my recent interest in cultivated (clean) meat and it's potential to reduce a range of problems.

[@mikewilson0]

“Moving towards plant based is better for a more sustainable world” Please support this with something more than your opinion.

[@JohnnyBoy919]

kzbin.info-3L9t9K9QjM?si=4jd_WdFWrz_L4-BZ

[@chrisconklin2981]

@@mikewilson0 A good reference would be: NIH PMID: 24898222, Titled: "Sustainability of plant-based diets: back to the future". This abstract give a free link to the original article in "The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition" of July 2014.

[@charlsalash]

@@mikewilson0 When we know that "Livestock constitute 62% of the world's mammal biomass; humans represent 34%; and wild mammals make up just 4%" it becomes evident that the ecological balance of our planet is under severe strain. We went severely overboard and cutting meat from our diet can only be beneficial to the environment.

[@charlsalash]

@musicsnob08 Here is more numbers: "If we combine pastures used for grazing with land used to grow crops for animal feed, livestock accounts for 77% of global farming land. While livestock takes up most of the world's agricultural land it only produces 18% of the world's calories and 37% of total protein"

[@coconicoleestef8549]

Sooo, quick statement. Historic times, there has been said that some people adapted to vegan choice because of the resources available to them. Aside from science, opinions and debate, each individual is unique. What works best for them may not work best for others. Being vegan is not a diet. It's an eating preference. In my life situation, I am vegan and gluten free and I am healthy; I get blood work done. Since I had to transition to this lifestyle, I have stayed in remission, no bloating, asthma disappeared, other health issues diminished and have energy after eating. For some autoimmune disease or bowel disease, finding what works for you isn't based on debate, others suggestions and what is better. It's your body and no one knows your body more than oneself, especially a doctor who doesn't have the disease and how the gut and brain is disconnected, other variables are shifted. Most people attack someone's else eating lifestyle when it's out their norm. You don't need to justify your way of living by insulting or shaming others to protect your insecurities. Eat what works best for your body.

[@KasKade7]

The most basic and arguably the most important thing people need to understand about food is: Quality over quantity! Eat less food, less often. Stop snacking! Now the body will fast and be in autophagy more. Getting to a healthy bodyweight is very easy now. Since you save money on food quantity now, use it to increase the quality. Yes, pay extra for that grass fed and grass finished meat. Yes, buy organic food as much as available. "Peasant" foods like oats, beans, lentils, eggs, sardines and peanuts are all very healthy and cheap anyways. Especially, when buying in bulk. Also try eating seasonal local food too.

[@GaryHighFruit]

Which diet? It's not a serious question. Vegan diet is much more natural & healthy. Carni is just a political trolling/triggering tool of anti-vegans who don't want to feel bad about eating meat.

[@jhartmac100]

Geat opinion.....but just that ....politics?? Huh???

[@coconicoleestef8549]

Right on point 🎉

[@asdf1991asdf]

Are you serious? The emergence of carnivore is to troll vegans? Veganism trolls itself. And the carnivore diet results are incredible..

[@andrewtrip8617]

Yep there are very few staples in a vegan diet that are natural and most of them take further processing to make them edible . Veganism is a response to un natural living .All natural societies are healthy omnivores.

[@davekettles4371]

yeah, that's the broad minded scientific approach he was eluding too, right? I'm right and the rest of you are fools....seriously?

[@heidinoggle]

So good!!

[@Alaskaventureswithbrodie]

Well said Simon.

[@PardieDiem]

What is the difference between bio-individuality vs individuality? Anyone?

[@carriebecker2092]

So well said.

[@shanerobertson5964]

I love when people throw up studies to back their claims and they should. Still as someone who works with data you must know that these can be manipulated. Also with the big push of vegan diets its easier to get funding to show it works. Now try to get funding to show the opposite and see what happens. It is because of this researchers are pressured to produce what other expect. The problem with our diet is their is to much money involved. Even you make money off of it and would make less if your opinion changed. It is because of this that you might overlook data that contradicts your beliefs.

[@mariacallas9962]

Carnivore’s a grift,Veganism’s the futur.

[@letransformateur6477]

Well said!

[@mymom9466]

Very well said

[@billdublewhopper3064]

Show me coronary angiographic images if coronary artery disease stenosis reversal. I have seen zero. Hiwever a plant based oil free diet has many many cases and images of Coronary Artery disease reversal.

[@jayalexandertilley]

In late-stage colonial capitalism all aspects of life are being pushed to the extremes of polarization. You see this extremism surface everywhere; people have been conditioned to hyper identify with something while being induced to live a hyper individualized life. Keeping us inflamed, divided, angry, lonely, confused and over identified with static beliefs/concepts/ways of thinking, prevent us from coming together in dialogue and sharing, caring and respecting uniqueness while sharing a vision and practice of health and community that includes vast diversity. As the middle class has disappeared so has the middle of the spectrum for politics, religion, education, etc. Chronic fight or flight because we no longer feel deeply connected and belonging to one another. This isn't an accident, it is a direct result and intention of systems of domination, control, patriarchy, oppression, extraction, profit, globalization. Somatic abolitionism is essential.

[@mikewilson0]

Conspiracy theorize much? Take it elsewhere.

[@SkylerF]

Honestly apart from the internet, everyone I am around seems to get along, respect others beliefs and lifestyles and people are better off economically now than most times in the past.

[@jayalexandertilley]

I'm unclear if you are willfully ignoring the state of the world right now. There is more disparity, fascism, environmental destruction, racism, classism, greed and excess than there ever has been. People are sicker than they've ever been and How can we be better off economically now than at most times in the past when the world is barrelling towards disaster. From genocides, to the threat of world war and nuclear destruction, to environmental collapse that is becoming more and more undeniably precarious. But if you see things very differently, that's your right. @@SkylerF

[@andrewtrip8617]

Can you eat that word salad ?

[@marcusgarvey9933]

Isn't that antisemitic?

[@matts2758]

Really appreciate your channel Simon. The hardest thing I have to reconcile after going through everyone's position is David Diamond's research on people with FH and their longevity despite high LDLC. David Diamond is pretty well credentialled and his positions seem well thought out and reasonable and a good contrast to other genetic studies such as the mendelian randomisation studies which suggest LDLC as a casual factor in heart disease. When you say that positions appear to be mostly resolved in academia and then see people like David Diamond publishing in the literature challenging the notion that LDLC is causal and that other factors haven't been properly considered such as coagulation factors, I find it hard to reconcile the notion that LDLC as a causal factor for heart disease is resolved.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Can you link to his research showing longevity with FH? Happy to take a look at it and discuss with you

[@matts2758]

Thanks bud. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5KonpyLm7FqqtU this is a broad overview and discussion about his research and findings. and this is the actual research itself: kzbin.info/www/bejne/moDdmKWefJWrgas@@TheProofWithSimonHill

[@matts2758]

Thank you. Here's a broad overview of his position in a discussion format: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5KonpyLm7FqqtU And here's one of his presentations with research alongside: kzbin.info/www/bejne/moDdmKWefJWrgas @@TheProofWithSimonHill

[@matts2758]

I would also just add that Ron Kraus's work shows a higher hazard ratio for sd/ldl over abob which might be explained by a collinearity with insulin resistance or metabolic health (so therefore maybe not as bad when you adjust on a per particle basis). but as he notes in his research there hasn't been adequate control differentiation between pattern a and pattern b phenotype distributions in the literature so one could confound the other and the benefits we see with abob reductions might just be within the pattern b population as they may be overrepresented. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmXRqoeOm7d_gNk @@TheProofWithSimonHill

[@NaturopathBrad]

Simon continues to impress. I agree with everything he is saying here and the way he delivers it. However, if we look at autoimmune patients specifically, and what clinicians see in clinical practice, Autoimmune Paleo (AIP) and carnivore diets seem to yield good results for these patients. The question then becomes why? Is it because these diets are a form of an elimination diet, or do plant-based compounds such as lectins become inflammatory irritants when you have intestinal hyperpermeability? It would be good to see Simon Steel man the Carnivore side of the argument then pick it apart and highlight specific issues. Maybe there is a place for short-term use of these meat-based diets for certain individuals, although, the evidence for long-term use is clearly favouring plant-based diets.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Leave it with me thanks Brad

[@marcusgarvey9933]

Show me the science supporting plant based diets. Dont get me started on those weak epidemiological studies that have massive confounding factors and biases.

[@mrmaxcarter2306]

​@@marcusgarvey9933there is decades worth of research.

[@Barbara-ch3qf]

Well, I guess in 15-20 years we’ll have some good mortality data and that should settle the question, assuming we haven’t all died thanks to climate change or some other plague. No one seems very open to revising their ideas at the moment. In my own family, I’m vegan and unlikely to change since I follow this dietary pattern for ethical reasons. Other family members follow other patterns for health reasons. They, like me, are unlikely to change. What I don’t get is the aggressivity that emerges when people encounter opposing ideas. I don’t get upset when people disagree with my choices or make choices I wouldn’t.

[@peterwilson1038]

OMAD + CARNIVORE = ANCESTRAL = OPTIMAL

[@aaronmyers2382]

This guy is no expert. He wouldn't even debate a real scientist/surgeon.

[@bshef3424]

my simpleton brain/life experience has concluded.......depends on your longevity goals - wanna go long time and have working brian at end life = plants ....... Wanna go fast, shorter lifespan and clogged alzheimers/dementia at end life = meat/dairy

[@waltpayne9348]

Interesting misconception. There are indications that Alzheimer's and dementia and many brain related ailments are caused by, or contributed to, by eating low fat, high carb diets. Yes, a plant based diet can be healthy if carefully thought out. But plant proteins are less bioavailable and harder to eat properly.

[@yan-G]

you should really read some books about the brain and diet, there is a reason almost all brain scientists are plant based@@waltpayne9348

[@guest-zn8zs]

@@waltpayne9348 nicely put. It also makes a lot of sense that high sat fat is good for the brain. And it is very illogical to assume that high carb is good for arteries or the brain.

[@stevelanghorn1407]

Walt Payne is right. Obviously there are seriously horribly, unhealthy processed meats, but “quality” meat and fish is a highly valuable, nutrient dense, very “bio-available” basic staple of a healthy human life. Or it should be. The Omega 3 fatty acids are perhaps more crucial than many of us know. And also Vitamin B12 in its natural form. Don’t underestimate the molecular-level importance of these for brain and cardiac health.

[@guest-zn8zs]

@@stevelanghorn1407 yes that is very true, as well as K2 for the health of the cardiovascular system and other functions

[@jeffreyjohnson7359]

Confirmation bias is a powerful thing...

[@jacquelinedella-santa2451]

The best

[@Lieutenant-Dan]

While I agree for the most part, some people's stories like Mikhaila Petersons where they radically heal very serious chronic conditions eating only meat are quite compelling. Boggles my mind a bit.

[@carnismiscancer2108]

There is no evidence that Mikahila Peterson had any of these diseases and there is no evidence that the carnivore diet "cured" her. I believe she suffers from Hypochondria. Her own child is not on the carnivore diet and recommends people vegan products to give to her kids. I have a video on my channel exposing Mikhaila about this. She also is very insecure about her looks and lies to people about not having any surgery done. She's not that great of a person when she relies on anecdotes to sell people services for money.

[@ceeemm1901]

That's her story. It's a story that nobody except people who are close to her can possibly substantiate. I ate a carnivore diet for 6 months and it added 3 inches to my dick. Believe me? Well I just said it on YT, so it must be true, right?....Yes, I did just lie...it was 4 inches......

[@andrewtrip8617]

Often extreme diets can cure sick people .Ive seen it seen it work for carnivore and vegan .what makes my mind boggle is when healthy omnivores switch to an extreme diet .

[@johnmartinsen963]

@@andrewtrip8617 Many "omnivore" foods have only been around for a short time and most plant foods are highly modified from the version our recent ancestors consumed...That is extreme. Eating the foods that have been the same for millennia (animals) is not extreme at all. What plant foods did your ancestors eat during the last ice age?

[@CharlieFader]

@@johnmartinsen963all foods have been modified by both humans and natural selection. But that’s beside the point. The healthfulness of a food is not determined by how back it goes.

[@peterstabler2321]

Do you advise diabetics to eat carbs " complex sugars"? Do you believe that LDL is responsible for arterial scarring?

[@yonickyg9719]

right?? like its Santa Clause...@dyldabeast9176 LOL SMH

[@shellderp]

@dyldabeast9176 why? there are many interpretations of data, you have to form a belief in the end

[@evanhadkins5532]

So, I want to know what I do for MY health. Scientific investigation is essential. It has to do with groups (I don't care about groups, I want to know what to do for MY health). Some individuals are in the 'tails' of the distribution. This is part of scientific investigation. What we need is guidance on how to find what works for ME. Science cares about generalities (essential), I care about ME (n=1).

[@maitherapeutic]

Scientific thinking is linear thinking, and tracing the origin of wounds and phenomena,

[@AirScottyfpv]

The cognitive dissonance is rife in these comments…

[@victorinborsciov6817]

Not quite the Kruger-Dunning effect but close enough. Add some "I like what I hear" end voila!

[@kwongheng]

I think the initial primary reason why there is such a big divide between vegans and carnivore, is that in general some vegans go all out attacking meat eaters regardless if they are omnivores or carnivore dieters. They attack restaurant and disrupting businesses, constantly telling everyone that eating meat will doom the world, they even attack ex-vegans with vengeance and only focus on LDL for health. It's not a vegan Vs carnivore, it's really toxic vegans versus the rest of the world who eats meat. If you look at low carb conferences during the early years, nobody even mentioned veganism in those conferences and recently it's been on the talking board due to the push from vegan propaganda. It's not.just carnivore dieters who push back, everyone else who eats meat are pushing back against the cruelty, anger and hatred from vegan activists. Simon failed to have notice this and I never heard any vegan experts or plant-based person discussing about this. The problem in nutrition space is that even the experts seems to be blind to the root cause, only focusing on drugs as treatment. Instead many people found cure or remission of their eczema, diabetes, gut issues and even cancer themselves when the experts offered no solutions. Simon seems to be blind to this. Regardless what nutrition paper says they are afterall statistics. They can only inform so much, what matters is that people geta better and healthier regardless what consensus paper says. In astrophysics or even theoretically, when a hypothetise is made, a prediction can be made from them and we should be able to observe what they predict, the most classic are black holes. When something doesn't match up, the science would verify of its the observation or they need to revise their theory. This is what makes them so vigorous. But in nutritional space, nobody is interested to revised their theory when observations failed and neither could they make predictions based on their conclusions. Yet they are held to gold standard, I don't think these is scientific method and it's fraudulent and dishonest to equate it ever to theoretical physics or atros physics. A good example of good science is the lipid energy model which has a theory, they are able to make predictions and can show thay the observation matches prediction. Which hypothesis in nutrition science has done that? Lipid heart? High LDL = CVD? Somatic theory of cancer?

[@maitherapeutic]

Invite me there, I'll tell u about galaxies. I'm yourssss!!!

[@UberNerd]

As soon as you made the statement "The theme that you see in the literature that is associated with the best long term health, lower risk of various types of cancer, lower risks of metabolic conditions like type 2 diabetes or non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, lower risk of cardiovascular disease, dementia, etc, is a a diet that's high in fiber, low in saturated fat, it has a bias for plant protein, but it can include animal protein..."

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32699048/ ajcn.nutrition.org/article/S0002-9165(23)66282-3/fulltext

[@justanother240]

Nutritional science is not science. 😂

[@ScottDCS]

"Most recent meta-analyses of randomized trials and observational studies found no beneficial effects of reducing SFA intake on cardiovascular disease (CVD) and total mortality, and instead found protective effects against stroke." Humans are obligate carnivores and opportunists. Stop demonizing saturated fats. There's a reason depression is higher in the plant based community (Omega-3 intake being the other one). Extreme diets on either end are probably detrimental, but I would lean away from majority plant-based for health reasons. Evolution and nutrition science seem to agree on this.

[@ScottDCS]

Saturated Fats and Health: A Reassessment and Proposal for Food-Based Recommendations: JACC State-of-the-Art Review

[@739jep]

I believe the studies cherry picked in that review had huge flaws ? including: - no adjustments for a moderator variable (LDL) - small variance to the treatment variable (saturated fats) - inclusion of cohorts with intakes well above or well below where the majority of CVD risk is observed - only including mortality in the metrics (people get CVD and live, and the likelihood of survival is increasing Did they disclose their review protocols? Regardless there are many more RCTs and meta analysis that conclude the exact opposite of this review

[@joe1071]

Neither is the truth

[@jhartmac100]

Sugar is the issue, grass fed meat in moderation isnt wrong all this is simple to prove with a blood test

[@DaveDavins]

your cattle has been selectivley bred to be fat nowadays and grass fed is not natural purely for cattle. Try again

[@Assassin99584]

Omnivore

[@veganpundit1]

🎯🙏🫵

[@marcusgarvey9933]

He got that vegan look

[@amitloutube]

anything crazy is bad for longevity that includes going carni crazy or vegan crazy- remember greatest chess and tennis and other sports players eat mixed balanced diet- they never ever go carni crazy for very long time- may be its good for few months. Have you ever seen person who lived 90+ who ate meat all time since age 1 to 90 and did great things???(never ever go extreme) these diets and people who promote never ever discuss longevity...remember fat was bad and then it was proteins and now its carbs turn...also the top carni disorder guys themselves built their own body eating carbs and fats and proteins...(they never mention). There is a trend on social media...when someone feels better one one food he instantly becomes doctor and starts bad mouthing all other entire food chain humans eatt..(bart and saladino-bald guy with eating disorders, saladino was vegan then became carni crazy and now he is fruitivore...)

[@davidiruya657]

If a whole plant based diet is studied to be very healthy for you can you explain what you mean by vegan crazy? I have been vegan and haven't been drinking alcohol for 6 years. Does it mean being sober crazy is bad for me? Should I go eat a steak with a beer maybe?

[@amitloutube]

@@davidiruya657 vegan crazy means eating too much raw foods which wrecks havoc on your gut, eat what feels you best and your gut feels best and your bowel movement is best meaning not bloated any day, your gut needs to be extremely clean for any long term disease should not exist and form that I feel fruit based diet with some carbs and cooked vegetables and lactose free fermented dairy is amazing and it works for me and remember fruits should be eaten alone, all these youtube diet experts have 0 to -100 understanding of food combining....they mix chia, kefir, fruits and create shit food...and call it healthy...

[@Jodie-masterson]

Vegan propaganda 😂

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Please explain? Unpack a specific claim you disagree with and why (with citations). And let’s go front there.

[@shellderp]

if you think "the science is settled" you are completely not worth listening to and misunderstand the entire premise of the scientific process

[@projectoldman3383]

Simon has a bias against red meat which is not borne out by the current evidence and fails to mention veganism is highly motivated by a sense of ethics or a belief system. Also states the obvious....whole foods are healthier long term. Also equates the science of physics with nutritional science, these are not the same, one is epidemiology based while the other is mathematical in nature. Humans are definitively not biased towards whole food plant proteins as they all lack adequate levels of one amino acid or another to promote efficient protein synthesis. An omnivorous whole foods diet, rich in regenerative, grass fed animal products and organic vegetables while minimizing hyper palatable, processed foods is an obvious solution.

[@ceeemm1901]

You must be the funniest kid in your kindergarten.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

The best data we have would disagree with you. All sounds very idyllic and romantic though!

[@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos]

You do not understand how science works. Feel free to ask for an explanation. Physics and nutritional science work exactly the same way at the basis. Physics is not built on mathematics. The models of physics are mathematical. Physical models are not "true" because of mathematical reasons. An important difference. The models are "close to reality" because of "epistemological data of the local presentation of the cosmos around us" in the case of gravity and cosmology (LambdaCDM-model) and because of the analogous to RCTs in the case of the standard model of particle physics and in the case of quantum field theory in general.

[@projectoldman3383]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill So the data says whole food plant proteins contain all the essential amino acids, without strategic combining, to initiate efficient protein synthesis? Or is it an omnivorous diet, consisting of sustainably grown produce and ethically raised animal foods, being healthy that the data doesn’t support? I suspect your referring to saturated fat/cholesterol and the purported cancer risks of red meat, it’s not as clear cut as you might think. Do you acknowledge epidemiology relying on FFQ data is potentially weak therefore meta-analyses using those studies suffer from the same potential weaknesses? I understand that is the evidence we have to work with, but that doesn’t equate to the mathematical evidence in physics. I’m leaving room to be mistaken but I’m definitely not convinced a food we evolved eating continuously over millions of years is unhealthy.

[@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos]

​@@projectoldman3383 Another misconception of you: Evolution does not optimise for longevity. How could it (we don't naturally live that long)? And there are mechanisms like antagonistic pleiotropy that decrease longevity. You don't have to speculate how reliable FFQs are abd what effect that has. You can test it through various methods and it has been tested (both accuracy and precision have been tested).

[@dkeener13]

Be careful if you think sensationalism and Dunning-Kreuger is something that happens on the other side, but you and the people you agree with have made a sober assessment of all the evidence free of preconceived biases. If you believe that you're probably dumber than the people you're villainizing.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

If that’s true, highlight problems with my scientific positions? And Let’s review- if I’m logically consistent then I’ll change my view

[@dkeener13]

I was speaking generally after reading some of the other comments, not directed at you specifically. I follow you, despite not being vegan myself, because I feel like you are fair and ask good questions about subjects that interest me. But I do come to different conclusions mostly because I start from different premises. I just tire a bit from the "I'm evidence-based and my opponents are shills and charlatans" schtick, which is neck-deep in every diet tribe, and which you are exhibiting a little bit in this video.

[@kazoz3520]

​@@dkeener13 In what way is Simon exhibiting this. Can you give an example?

[@andrewtrip8617]

He cherry picks the evidence that supports his bias ,and if commenters post a counter argument their post is deleted . Go through hid past videos and count the number of deleted comments .

[@kraftzion]

He has no idea what he is talking about. Or he is a paid actor. Fiber??? The amount of health problems caused by eating fiber is mind boggling. Right up there with sugar, processed foods, and seed oils.

[@hoodedstreetmonk352]

Nonsense. The constant demonization of fiber and its effects on the human body is nothing but hearsay, not to mention downright dangerous.

[@someguy2135]

Where do you get your information? Joe Rogan?

[@kraftzion]

@@someguy2135 try kent carnivores channel if you want to know the benefits of fiber. Does Joe Rogan entertain ideas that scare you? Where do you get your information from, the view or cnn? 😆

[@hoodedstreetmonk352]

​@@kraftzion all carnis only cherrypick the evidence that validates their way of eating. Why would I take what they have to say as gospel? Nonsense.

[@waltpayne9348]

Speak to Prof. Bart Kay and Dr. Eric Westman. They are domain experts. They have extreme credibility based on their training and experience, and they both are strong proponents of low carb and extremely low carb. What are your credentials to be saying they are wrong?

[@martinarnold5239]

Bart Kay is by no means an expert. If nothing else his irrational behaviour is unscientific and abusive. He cites no souces, even admitting there is no evidence for the carnivore diet he advocates (if he hasn't somehow changed his view). He refutes established science, backed up with evidence, in favour of crank theories and ad hominem.

[@ilonabaier6042]

oh my here we go again.

[@greggbambu411]

I tend to believe researchers. We see that even doctors can have a dogmatic agenda. Scientists don't care what you eat. They only seek to know the truth through science. I don't give much credence to influencers on social media (because opinión isn't reliable), but I will pay attention to what the science says. Most of the science recommends eating mostly plants to achieve and maintain good health, along with good sleep and at least some exercise.

[@tinyjungle_]

Dunning-Kruger in action. Well done.

[@guest-zn8zs]

Very true. The guy in the video can't just call these diets like a carnivore extreme, and make that the argument for them being bad or incorrect. If a guy jumps off a roof, or eats rocks for breakfast, and he says all the top scientists said it is good, would it then be true? I don't think so.

[@naz88-36]

well how's this we (humans) evolved on a carnivore diet , not a vegan diet vegan is very new.

[@ethanschaefer8327]

Humans did not evolve on a carnivore diet the idea is absolutely ridiculous, it was an omnivore diet probably similar to modern day chimps whose diet consists of around 2% meat

[@letransformateur6477]

Im working with people studying the first humans. The evidence indicates a omnivore diet for our ancestors.

[@mrmaxcarter2306]

There's plenty of evidence early people ate lots of plants. And were not carnivore, generally speaking.

[@naz88-36]

@@mrmaxcarter2306 you realize we have only been growing crops for a few thousand years 5-10 or so. before that for abot 3-3.5 million years humans were hunter gatherers so the veggies you talk about us eating well yes if we could find it we didnt grow our diets were mainly meat for a very long time... have a good one.

[@mrmaxcarter2306]

@@naz88-36 I guess monkeys are hunter gatherers too? People don't hunt without tools. They could not have been hunters without tools. What did they do before that? They ate the plants available to them and scavenged meat when possible. Humans were never carnivores. Never. They've always eaten plants and meat only when the opportunity was there. If you want an idea how people ate, look at apes. They can and sometimes do eat meat, but they mostly eat plants. If they were carnivores, why would they start agriculture? Probably because plants were the most common and preferred foods.

[@kmthye]

Low fat High Card have failed everyone What else do you need?

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

In a low carb echo chamber sure