Vegetable oils: Are they healthy? - Diet Doctor Podcast

Some authorities promote vegetable oils as a “health food” but others see them as a clear danger to our health. Observational studies suggest they are beneficial to our health, but mechanistic studies suggest they can cause significant harm. How do we make sense of the disparate views? Our panel of experts weighs in and helps us put things in perspective.
Table of contents:
0:00 Introduction
5:51 Ethan Weiss, MD
7:02 Dr. Weiss on the topic of vegetable oil
10:56 Counselling a patient about vegetable oil
15:30 Nicola Guess, RD
19:13 Does it matter where the vegetable oil originates?
26:02 The role of oleic acid like avocado and olive oil
28:43 Conclusion to Dr. Guess' discussion
30:16 Tro Kalayjian, MD
30:44 The practical and clinical experience with vegetable oil
36:16 Raphael Sirtoli
43:35 About reactive oxygen species
48:54 Dr. Scher on being open-minded about different studies
54:41 A special case for people following a low-carb diet
56:45 Ben Bikman, PhD
1:05:14 Is there any negative effects in people on a hypocaloric diet?
1:07:01 How to weave through the different evidence
1:14:15 Amber O'Hearn
1:22:57 About the overstatement of the benefits and harm of omega 6
1:27:10 Conclusion
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[@leenysnell8804]

Dr Weiss says that we don't really get that much seed oil - putting it in the pan or on your salad. All very well for the health conscious. But virtually ALL the processed foods contain seed oils and all the deep fried food uses seed oils. Most of the population actually eat a heck of a lot of seed oils.

[@wocket42]

Two thirds of SAD calories come from processed fats and sugar/processed wheat. And almost all fat comes from PUFA oil. Yet he says he doesn't know anyone who has a significant intake of PUFA oils.

[@grubbetuchus]

It's unsettling what he said about seed oils. He downplays, even trivializes, the types of observations made by Lustig, Fung Jamnadas, et al.

[@joebuslife9275]

Seems like he's just out of touch with what regular people end up buying at the grocery store. All below top tier salad dressings, mayonnaises, sauces, crackers, chips, fried food, desserts, breads even, the list goes on and on, have a ridiculously high amount of vegetable and seed oils

[@dorcasmcleod6583]

I also noticed that he didn't really seem to understand all the different "foods" that contain seed oils. Actually, he made me think that he was pretty uninformed on this subject.

[@cjcj6945]

🚫 Seed Oils.

[@caroliner2029]

I didn't hear the first couple of presenters mention the 1) smoke point of seed oils compared with olive oil, coconut oil, or lard and beef/lamb dripping. 2) nutrient properties of animal or olive/coconut oil, and seed oils 3) propensity to become rancid at room temperature, shelf life, preservative value to food, etc. We have generations of ancestors who used lard & dripping for its properties of stability and reliability without refrigeration. I cook with a combination of olive oil, butter and if cooking steak, some lard/dripping. Butter gives a delicious flavour and I find that it triggers the lovely sensation of satiety, which is a gift from God for its feeling of wellbeing. It's part of healthy self-nurture.

[@grandegulo]

I'm old enough to remember that in my childhood nobody used seed oils for cooking. Absolutely nobody.

[@JasonActualization]

​@@grandeguloFor good reason. They were designed to lubricate machinery and not mankind!

[@rjfriz5159]

So Dr Weiss tells his patients to stay away from processed foods, sugars and refined grains. But not concerned about processed oils. These oils are in processed foods. His message is on shaky ground.

[@MegaWandak]

Most definitely!!!

[@SuzanneU]

Well, if you stay away from processed foods, you are automatically staying away from the hyper processed oils! I see no omission or contradiction here. If you avoid processed foods, then you're likely to be the kind of person who does make their own salad dressings and makes healthy choices.

[@lgolem09l]

Processed foods also contain water, so should I stay away from water?

[@JasonActualization]

​@@lgolem09lKeep the water, subtract the seed oils. The former falls from the sky, and the latter is extracted in factories that resemble oil refineries.

[@mschroed99]

​@@lgolem09lLow IQ comment.

[@stephenrankin8916]

Dr Bikman, The total picture, no more myopathy, no more agendas, just good stuff.

[@garyadams1337]

Dr. Weiss is wrong about seed oils and offered little in the way of evidence to show that increased consumption has not been awful for our health. His example of salad dressings not having that much seed oils is ridiculous. Look at all the commercial salad dressings and they almost always use soybean, canola, safflower oil etc. Dr. Scher should never be rude to a guest but some pushback is warranted rather than just nodding your head and smiling like this all makes perfect sense.

[@Paul-hl5ls]

Dr. Weiss unlikable person and I don't trust him so his input is a waste of my time

[@emh8861]

Weiss said he uses avocado oil. He said he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. 🤷🏽‍♀️🙄

[@eugeniebreida1583]

Weiss contributed almost zero to advance our understanding. Nothing burger.

[@JasonActualization]

Indeed, people need to wake up and realize that the best study has already happened, lol. We actually already performed the experiment, it just happened to be one that NOONE gave their conscious consent. Scarily, the experiment remains ongoing...

[@tiredlookingforname]

I respectfully disagree with doctor Weiss. Vegetable oils are everywhere. Especially if you stick with standard diet. Potato/corn chips baked goods, canned seafood (in many cases), salad dressings etc. all contain vegetable oils. So even if you cook at home with "healthy" saturated and mono-unsaturated if you consume processed foods you will consume a lot of vegetable oils.

[@MarkVA71]

Then eliminate process foods...

[@tiredlookingforname]

@@MarkVA71 Did it three years ago. So what's your point?

[@ak-id1yh]

I agree, irrespective of whether it's healthy or unhealthy it is absolutely everywhere, especially in processed foods. If it used to contain butter it now contains vegetable fats ( biscuits, cookies, baked goods etc.), if it used to contain olive oil, it now mostly contains cheaper vegetable oils (pesto, vegetables or fish preserved in oil). Of course processed foods are generally a bad choice, but where it annoys me most is when i want to buy things like canned fish, olives, pesto, sundried tomatoes etc. They mostly contain sunflower oil, rapeseed oil or unspecified vegetable oil. And secondly it bothers me that restaurants nearly always use the cheapest vegetable oils available for all their cooking. I live in Ireland and maybe it is worse here than in other places.

[@sarahrosen4985]

Here's the problem: invited to my Parisian gourmet chef friend's house or her professional chef brother's house for dinner. E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G will be fresh and homemade BUT they will use vegetable oil to cook meat dishes with. Unless you cut off contact with people, you are going to be exposed to seed oils. Even the top chefs and restaurants that source everything within 15 minutes walking distance and know the name of every chicken they serve are still using seed oils.

[@markiangooley]

@@sarahrosen4985 yep. I see KZbin cooks preparing high-grade Wagyu beef - with canola oil. They’ve been overwhelmed with VEGETABLE OIL IS GOOD FOR YOU propaganda. It’s as if they can’t help it.

[@DF-ee8vt]

Dr. Weiss says not to eat processed food, then says it's just fine to eat seed oils which are heavily processed. The olive and avocado oil he uses is processed minimally. I think he subconsciously doesn't like seed oils.

[@bobo7140]

“I just tell my patients to pretend the conversation isn’t happening” wow, I’m glad he’s not my physician, very emotionally based arguments too.

[@terykay6965]

I am with you on that one ,

[@iss8504]

And he works for Virta Health. I find him impossible to understand

[@Attmay]

That guy is a quack, pure and fucking simple.

[@groovecouple4644]

Yeahhh I’d fire him on that

[@tasst2674]

Where to start? Dr Weiss. I am sure he is smart, but he is clearly too young. I remember when canola oil hit the shelves and was touted as the healthiest thing you could do for your family. My mother who cooked everything from scratch for our health stopped buying the tins of olive oil and bought the plastic gallons of canola oil and she used it in everything. We were all normal weight with no aches and pains. Fast forward ten years, we all were struggling with our weight and had no success slimming down no matter what we did. I thought i just had no will power, but i could succeed in other areas of my life, just not my weight, Again, mom was still cooking from scratch as this was still before processed foods were common, and what also started was the arthritis. My mom had it terribly, then my dad then myself. We had no idea about seed oils possibly being unhealthy, but as I look back, I can see the impact on our all lives. I accidentally stumbled into low carb and avoiding seed oils. I had no idea the reason my legs were so painful I could barely walk was the seed oils, but when I stopped them, in just a few days I saw reduced pain. Now I am a different person, down 70 pounds with no pain whatsoever. Dr, Weiss is do what I say, not what I do. I feel sorry for his patients who will need his help with all the inflammation and suffering they shall have if they continue with seed oils.

[@faimohkihfaimohkih8223]

I tell all my patients to avoid seed oils because by default it will reduce the amount of processed food they eat and how often they eat out, both of which will significantly improve weight loss and overall health. We may not have all the evidence that seed oils are as toxic as some people make it out to be, but just like processed foods, avoiding them will only help patients’ chances of thriving.

[@hikari8858]

You can be sure that vegetable seed oils are more toxic than people realize.

[@sriha37]

Well said doctor

[@kelliott7864]

Why not just tell your patients to stop consuming processed food and eating out?

[@TheCinder24]

This dietican lady really lives in a fantasy land. She is really in the pocket of the oil industry. As a person with migraines and Fibromyalgia, getting seed oils and most nuts out of my diet has been a health game changer.

[@dorcasmcleod6583]

She seems to be kinda like the usual "dietician" explanations.

[@SuzanneU]

As a chronic migraineur, I've found that nuts, legumes, and bananas trigger attacks. Seeds and seed oils (minimal intake) don't. Both of my sisters, also chronic migraineurs, can eat any amount of nuts, legumes, and bananas. My sister-in-law gets migraines from red meat. It's always a mistake to extrapolate one's personal experience to the world population.

[@RandomHuTaoSimp]

@@SuzanneU I dont think its red meat at all. See what other confounding factors could play a role and see if shes eating any type of processing or super market meat. Grass fed and finished probably wont give her any bad reactions.

[@RandomHuTaoSimp]

Yeah I could tell. She probably secretly represents industries heavily invested in seed oils. It's evident that long term, high consumption of these seeds tends to always lead to negative health outcomes in humans. Seed oils build up in your fat cells and take years of accumulation to really see a bad effect, that said, seed oils (Oxidized omega 6 linoleic acid) has a half life of about 680 days. You're looking at years of turn over rate of seed oils in your fatty tissues. The thing is when you lose weight, those seed oils are actually re-released in your body and causes temporary inflammation. So best bet is to eliminate ALL Seed oils, lose weight and in years time you will slowly start to feel better with your omega 6 to omega 3 ratio's once again in a humanely acceptable range of about 1 to 2 percent

[@JasonActualization]

​@@RandomHuTaoSimpThis is the best comment I've read regarding seed oils in some time. Yes, spot on man! I boycotted seed oils and reversed a rare disease called eosinophilic esophagitis which has no medically recognized cure, lol. Subtract the seed oils before they subtract you friends, they were made to lubricate machinery and not mankind. Doctors used to also promote cigarette smoking. Wake up guys, WAKE UP.

[@nutridensechef9666]

Three months after I replaced the seed oil by butter and coconut oil in my diet, my triglycerides went from 140 mg/dL to 65, then to 58 after another three months on low carb. A few of my younger friends who tried the same told me the similar experience. Maybe the studies should be on people WITH insulin resistance instead of healthy population because the codition takes years, possibly decades(my own case) to develop. It's not reasonable to expect healthy body to respond to the slow perturbation as quickly as in those studies.

[@andremoreno4033]

yep, yep, yep. totally agree

[@loganwolv3393]

Yeah, who knows the seed oils might be "heart healthy" in the short term with the observational data that the first 3 guests were talking about but yeah the seed oils could be one of these sneaky killers that sneak past most studies because of the duration. Personally i started using cold pressed sunflower oil but i only use it to make mayonese and a eggplant salad so yeah i think small ammounts like these wouldn't harm me but for cooking i mainly use olive oil, coconut oil or ghee so yeah i'm sticking to these.

[@Unsensitive]

@@loganwolv3393 that's been my observation and interpretation of the data. Short term you see benefits, but long term there are harms. One must also consider the type of fats, not just PUFA vs Saturated fat. I recall oleic acid seems protective against excess Linoleic Acid, where saturated fat is not protective. I biwvw this study showed it was because oleic acid displaced Linoleic acid in the lipoproteins, making them less harmful. Also consider there may be a minimum and maximum threshold dose. It's possible the people in the studies already consume a level so high, that they're above the maximum dose response of seed oils, thus adding or removing it has little effect, but adding or removing another fat does have a signal. I like Raphael Sirtoli's take on this. He words it much better than I can. Of course much of the data is not precise, and mechanisms complex, making it difficult to analyze. That said, I've been convinced it's bad in excess by the data, combined with my own elimination of these fats. Some of the benefits took 1-3 years to see.

[@angiem1124]

yeah this video is garbage - they are protecting the food industries, wonder how much they got paid

[@flagstaffrandy]

Ben Bikman was the most accurate among your guests. Maybe you can do part 2 of this podcast with Cris Knobbe and Robert Lustig. No mention of the high temperatures of using seed oils in frying foods and continuous reuse of seed oils in fast food restaurants.

[@hikari8858]

Not only in fast-food restaurants, but most "regular" restaurants also reuse their oils. Some might go to the trouble of filtering out the burned bits, but the "cleaned" oil is reused.

[@KenJackson_US]

Yeah! Chris Knobbe seemed emphatic in his belief that vegetable seed oils are the death of us all.

[@Unsensitive]

@@KenJackson_US Knobbe's talks are what pointed out the "it's excess carbs" paradox, which lead me to investigate Linoleic Acid. After lowering it for 1-3 years, I continued to see new benefits to health, and over time gaining flexibility in my carb intake.

[@KenJackson_US]

I've also eliminated vegetable seed oils from my diet, @@Unsensitive. Though I'm still a little confused as to why they're considered to be so bad.

[@Unsensitive]

@@KenJackson_US There are multiple factors... A bit to much put into a comment, but here's the Short answer. 1. Mitochondrial dysfunction 2. Inflammation from oxidation and oxidative products. 3. Primary cause of atherosclerosis. 4. Primary cause of cardiovascular disease. 5. Primary cause of diabetes due to effects on mitochondria and insulin resistance. 6. Primary cause of fatty liver. Most of these are linked with Linoleic acid. Others may also play a role, but there's less data to support this. These are signalling molecules. In small amounts we were exposed evolutionarily they're fine, and we can handle the harmful effects, but larger amounts, we can't compensate. I have a playlist full of talks and lectures on Linoleic Acid you might be interested in. I'd also recommend looking at Tucker Goodrich's blog "yelling-stop". He has some great articles. And dogs into research, linking studies to support his stance.

[@drewbot78]

Guest 1: Admits he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Guest 2: Talking out of her ass completely discounting how "vegetable" oils are processed and throw off your Omega 6:3 ratio. Would love to know where her income comes from.

[@darkpatches]

You must really hate everyone on Diet Doctor, based on what they say and where their income comes from. Right? Guest 2 can be debunked, if necessary, by what she says and how she substantiates her positions. Not by who she works for or by disparaging her motivations, even if her biases do happen to work against her own interests or the public. FWIW, the same applies to the Diet Doctors.... The comment about Guest 1 was pretty funny, though.

[@boondoggle4820]

Another thing is that when people consume these seed oils they are usually heated, often to very high temperatures (for frying and deep frying food). Was that taken into account in those studies?

[@TheWoWBane]

They are heated when they are made

[@loganwolv3393]

@@TheWoWBane Some of them, but there are cold pressed versions as well wich aren't heated and well they're at least better than the conventional seed oils wich are heavily procceced and heated to insane temperatures.

[@pw1592]

I only use seed oil for frying, mainly canola oil. I ALWAYS use it for frying. It raises my cholesterol and when I drink too many margaritas and eat too much homemade popcorn made with canola oil, I'm really in trouble.

[@OGPedXing]

It's easy. Seed oils are not food. Don't eat non foods.

[@toni4729]

Good thinking. Seed oils are just plastic, you never know what they're doing to you.

[@adrianlw2750]

I perceive the key driver for consuming vegetable oils to be commercial interests. However, the oils are promoted as “healthy” as that is the message the public will currently buy into. Trials and research funded by commercial interests will clearly seek to promote them in that way. That they are a money-saving option for people seals the deal. Persuasive messaging is the lifeblood of commercial interests. I have great respect for Ben Bikman and the work he does.

[@rogerwilcojr]

I had a McD hash brown for the first time in months and retched on it. It was like a canola/soybean oil sponge. I used to eat these things almost every day. I can't imagine ever trying to eat one of them again. I'm not scared of seed/vegetable oils (and will eat the occasional nuts) but I'll definitely be avoiding them whenever possible.

[@engc4953]

At an airport restaurant, I wanted eggs and bacon and ended up ordering poached eggs instead of other methods since the waiter told me that they don’t have butter or olive oil.

[@lf7065]

Then you'd have to ask them if the chef uses vinegar to poach the eggs. If so, if he's using regular white vinegar, it is made from GMO corn. 😐

[@toni4729]

Good thinking. One would think at an airport things might be more select.

[@jeannehamadrn3306]

Dr. Weiss is a non-issue. I could barely stomach him.

[@lindapestridge3073]

Agreed I'd rather have a spoon of vegetable oil.

[@susiehulcher1494]

Agree, he sounds uninformed and isolated.

[@iss8504]

I think people interview him only because he works fo out Virta Health and he's a cardiologist. Every interview with him is annoying. He ducks and weaves around questions.

[@eugeniebreida1583]

Did not add value, in fact I was surprised he was included.

[@kurakuson]

My GoTo 1. Lard 2. Butter 3. Olive Oil 4. Ghee 5. Coconut/MCT Oil

[@toni4729]

Bloody good stuff. Eat well.

[@vlastimiljanko8638]

Thank God for scientists like professor Bickman!

[@angiem1124]

yes at least he tells the truth

[@km3268]

This program is one example of why I love the Diet Doctor website and podcasts. All sides of the argument are presented, and although there are no clear winners or losers in this discussion, the consumer can make a better informed decision.

[@hikari8858]

Apparently Dr. Weiss and Dr. Guess are completely ignorant of the fact that vegetable seed oils are a highly processed industrial product. Maybe someone should educate them on how these oils are created in factories and the extensive, multi-step process required to make at least a somewhat-appealing oil product.

[@finncustomtile]

Dr Weiss says it's a non issue, because why? Vegetable oil occurs in like 90 percent of processed food and he says nobody is "chugging it".... I'm vexed

[@annettezielinski8836]

It is interesting that even the doctors that say there's nothing wrong with seed oils still choose not to eat them themselves. And whether anyone says they're good or bad, when you look at the chemicals needed to extract and process these oils, do we really want those in our body. I saw a couple suggestions for a part 2. Include Kate Shanahan? Great content! Thanks and blessings!

[@JasonActualization]

Yes, 100%, Cate coined the phrase "the hateful eight" and is a gift to humanity, truly. These oils are toxic, never outsource your own intuition guys!

[@DF-ee8vt]

I noticed there was no mention of taking these seed oils and hydrogenating them. I think it was pretty strongly concluded that hydrogenated oils are bad for all of us.

[@evianx1]

Try and find a food at the grocery store that doesn't have industrial oil in it. I can't even believe that his first guest said that he doesn't see people chugging omega six oils! So he doesn't think that they are a problem! OMG

[@hikari8858]

It has been said from a long time ago that 90% of the "food" products sold in grocery stores are not fit for human consumption.

[@karend.9218]

I eat higher fat on a low carb diet, so the quality of fat matters. When my diet had seed oils in majority, I sunburned easily. Now that they have been removed, I don’t. Strange, but true. This was observed in an interview between Ivor Cummins and Tucker Goodrich.

[@Unsensitive]

I also noted the lack of sunburn. Recently spent about 4-5 hours outside, with little pre-exposure. Got a little pink, but nothing uncomfortable. This cleared up the next day. I've also seen benefits to allergies and sinus inflammation. The lowered inflammation and clear sinuses fixed my sleep apnea as well, since I can nose breath when I obstruct. I still have allergies in my eyes though, so use antihistamine eye drops during peak season. Chronic pain and arthritis are also gone. After 3 years of lower Linoleic acid, my asthma is nearly gone.

[@JasonActualization]

​@@UnsensitiveYou are the man! This needs to be shouted from every mountain and rooftop. A nutritional savant whispered "linoleic acid" into my ear back in 2015. The crazy thing is, I was burdened by allergies, asthma, and a rare disease called eosinophilic esophagitis that nobody, not even the allergist who specializes in it, had answers. My allergist never mentioned these inflammatory oils. Long story short, I now have zero signs or symptoms of these conditions. My esophagus used to be so inflamed that I was left unable to speak and barely able to breathe hundreds of times throughout my late teens and early 20s when food would get lodged inside it. Unreal.

[@karend.9218]

Thanks for another great round table. I love your content.

[@doctorstotrust3552]

Great to get a full range of doctors and researchers on this tooic. I give a lot more credence to those who actually cite serious studies-as Ben Bikman did. Could also include Dr Cate Shanahan in this one-her two books cover this well: Deep Nutrition & The Fatburn Fix.

[@JasonActualization]

Cate is amazing! She coined the phrase "the hateful eight" and her work is legendary!

[@nancykowalczyk2577]

Great format…. One topic, discussed by all these different doctors/researchers. Thank you, very much!

[@sherryvanrijn5453]

Outstanding compilation, thank you so much!

[@stephenrankin8916]

Dr Weiss, yes is talking out of both sides of his mouth. If he doesn't think it's an important topic perhaps he should not be considered as a reference. If he thinks it only matters if you drink gallons of it he should not be considered for anything.

[@aboolowoaa5179]

Yeah, I think it's concerning that he seems to think that only chugging it or cooking with it matter. I'd venture a guess that most people's PUFAs don't come from their intentional additions, but rather come in processed foods. It's the same situation as sugar-- you're probably not adding too much sugar to your tea and coffee, you're probably getting it mostly in processed junk like soda. Furthermore, you don't need to chug gallons to make a difference. Some 20% or more by calorie of the modern die comes from these omega 6 PUFAs when formerly we'd have low single digit consumption of all PUFA. Just throwing off the omega 3: omega 6 ratio could be significant. I can understand him being unconvinced by the current data and wanting to focus on other things, but it almost feels like he's ignoring the subject.

[@soulcostume]

At 28:20moment I'm patiently waitin' for my counter advocates. Since I removed vegetable oils 15 years ago (Extra Virgin Olive Oil is an exception in the Mediterranean) my life changed 360, for the better. Btw. Where is Dr. Cate Shanahan, Tucker Goodrich, anyone?

[@bettykramos1802]

Where is Tucker Goodrich?

[@BrunoCrocco]

it looks like they didn't want to invite him, very sad.

[@zerocarbdoc]

Would have been nice to ask each contributor if they include seed oils in their diets regularly.

[@SimplyHuman186]

10:13 . so like yeah there is one lol 35:04

[@joerandom157]

he did. None of them consume seed oils. wonder why???

[@iss8504]

It always amazes me that when u ask a doctor what she or he does personally, how the advice changes. All these docs agree: no seed oil

[@eatmeatandliftweights5754]

I do NOT have seed oils in the house!

[@Jonathanmissinglink]

Like Dr. Kalayjian, I get nauseous from seed oils now, too! When I was at a theme park recently the smells from fryers made me really feel ill. Smelled like burning plastic to me.

[@gianfrancashewell4185]

Me too. Everytime I walk past a McDonalds or other fast food outlet I gag.

[@NoOctopuss]

Cutting seed oils has ELIMINATED my migraines AND minor headaches. I don't believe for a second that they're good to eat. Tucker Goodrich talks about going through all the possible factors for the increase in disease across populations around the world in the 20th century and it sounds like a couple of these experts haven't been as thorough somehow.

[@ChrisTheAdMan]

Thanks for posting this! Did not hear ANYTHING that refutes Knobbe or Goodrich or Lustig or even Berg. These oils are marketed to us as the heart healthy choice but no one mentioned the Cholesterol Hypothesis that they are predicated upon. Noakes did an extensive video critiquing this. I respect the panelists but they are not giving definitive answers, sound more like politicians. "Let me be clear...I have always supported better cleaner eating...Cleaner eating is what we should all be seeking in our lives..." At least Bikman's equivocating was understandable because science. As for me, vegetable oils = SATAN. Just like we don't need 200lbs of sugar a year in our diet neither do we need 30%+ of our calories coming from omega 6, linoleic acid polyunsaturated fatty acids. Thanks you, your mileage may vary

[@JasonActualization]

Well said. Subtract the seed oils before they subtract you friends, they were designed to lubricate machinery and not mankind!

[@jeffallen4113]

I also get nauseous when I smell kitchens with a large deep friers.

[@coffeemachtspass]

Dr. Weiss: He’s got a point about the seed oil conversation being far down the list for most people (especially if they’re starting out on a new eating plan). However, he would be amazed at how much soybean oil finds its way into common foods (including salad dressings). The definition of a junk might as well be Flour + Sugar + Soybean Oil.

[@toddclark4266]

Comment on first speaker: oils used for consumption are an issue when combined with other processed foods in our daily intake of food. Breakfast? Fry an egg in canola oil? Mid-Morning snack? White bread(has hydrogenated oil in most brands) with Jiff PB (has hydrogenated oil in it) ….I can on . It adds up ….the ingredients in the food we eat. We all have to do our own research. I believe this video was important to share . As far as the first speaker, he made good points. However, we can’t just assume people will make the right decisions. As a healthcare provider it’s a duty to educate patients on overall health. Idk what point I’m trying to make , I’m just in awe of the shrug of shoulders over oil ….”it’s not a big deal” but when you Sum it All up( our intake of foods)….yes oils do make a difference!

[@ElectedOfficial1]

I only eat avocado oil. Once in a great while I might eat olive oil. The only thing cooked I eat are poached eggs. I don't use cooking utensils any longer. Low carb tortilla with tuna for dinner, protein shake with coconut milk for lunch and sometimes a salad and half a grapefruit with stevia is my complete diet. I'm a type 1 diabetic which was onset at age 55 and put me in the hospital in a coma from eating the American diet! The American diet nearly killed me thanks to the FDA! Over 100 million people in the United States are diabetics right now with three times that many undiagnosed. Wake up or you will be awakened the hard way like I was.

[@cynicsage]

Tucker Goodrich is far more knowledgeable on this subject than any of your guests. Very disingenuous not to have him present on the matter.

[@garybranch4383]

Another excellent presentation, and I like your summary. You, pointed out that with important caveats, that modest doses of LA is probably of low risk. The most important caveat is wether or not the LA intake is in the presence of obesity and a hyper calorie diet. Bearing in mind the oxidative priority of energy sources: alcohol burned before AA's and sugar which are burned before fats. If all your energy needs are met by the former, then all fat in the diet will be stored irrespective of its type. Then, as well explained by Dr Ted Naiman, over filled fats cells are very inflammed and they spread inflammation to the rest of the body and drive insulin resistance. Then one is entitled to speculate about the potential biochemical toxicity of LA but also all excess of any polyunsaturated fats. When one is in calorie balance, then LA can be burned as fuel. Dr Weiss, like your good self, is looking after real patients with metabolic, obesity and heart problems, and the importance of selective messaging where one does not overload, and one gets the emphasis right ... the 80/20 rule ... the top 2 on a list of factors gives 80% of the results. Lifestyle changes are difficult, especially in a world obsessed with food and alcohol, combined with a thousand voices of arm chair experts with Google degrees. By all means think for yourself, but trust real world practitioners over anecdotalists. Dr Jason Fung is another who comes to mind - treated thousands of real patients, and knows the science what works in practice.

[@gilcavalcanti8250]

Excellent interviews covering a spectrum of points of view and showing very well that there is a genuine debate on the topic. Nice to hear the arguments from both sides including misconceptions and how each side weighs different pieces of data to come to a conclusion. All the guests made great points. Nicola Guess and Ben Bikman were particularly good at explaining the roots of their convinctions, imo.

[@Unsensitive]

I particularly like Bikman's point that Linoleic acid doesn't cause insulin resistance on a cellular level in cultures. If it does cause resistance, which he believes, it does so via other mechanisms, such as inflammation or fat cell dysfunction due to hypertrophy, or other mechanisms. I'd argue one of the mechanisms was laid out by Raphael Sirtoli, as mitochondrial dysfunction. 42:15 He notes the reduced cellular insulin resistance from Linoleic acid, which can lead to more energy consumption of a cell, including fat cells, causing the fat cells to enlarge. Other have pointed out additional mechanisms elsewhere, such as this one. LA is also incorpated into cardiolipin. LA's subsequent and inevitable oxidation in such a location with high ROS production causes structural changes to the mitochondrial membrane, leading to a leaky dysfunctional mitochondria, causing major metabolic issues.

[@cavumine]

I simply know my own personal 50+ year data: when I consume seed oils, my IBS-D is on 🔥 I can’t have a life if I eat them, so I don’t. Do other people do just fine, sure. I also don’t eat most vegetables for the same reason. I can’t do it and be a functional human.

[@torstrasburg8289]

Ditto. Most plant foods with their fiber, fodmap content, and resistant starches, wreak havoc on my digestive system. What an immense relief eating animal-based has given me.

[@annettestephens5337]

Me too. After years and years of gut problems I’ve gradually refined my diet based on how the food makes me feel. I eat at home, avoid almost all processed foods and eat animal based. My mouth likes vegetables and fruits but my guts get really upset by them.

[@mitochondriac5946]

Bikman is king!

[@acidclarity_]

im a postdoc in single cell epigenetics! hope i can have something to report here in the future. would be keen to do single cell epigenetic profiling of nutritional ketosis models and patients! (why single cell? so we know precisely which cell types are mechanistically responsible for the changes we see)

[@fearnot7500]

God bless you This video helps tremendously beyond expectations Really appreciate

[@joecabezas7721]

How are the oils extracted from the seeds? any chemicals involved? what is the process to remove the rancid smell? How are these additives received by the body!

[@NATUREarth43]

i never eat out, and cook at home everyday 😘😘

[@acidclarity_]

wow this is amazing! thank you diet doctor! such an impressive podcast, well curated!!

[@stephenrankin8916]

Dr Tro, sits on the fence, but knows the logic and chooses not to ignor it for himself.

[@fuq1nutube]

My mother(73) always uses vegetable oils, margarine and crisco. She recently had surgery and the doctor said her arteries felt like they were made out of wood. It may not be the cause but it sure as hell didnt help.

[@davidconover6106]

Yeah crisco was used as lubricant for industry machinery before they mass produce it for humans just for profit

[@LaneCodeRedCarnivore]

Oil and sugars , wheat is really bad !

[@KenJackson_US]

Prior to this, I had only heard a united front among the keto crowd against *"industrial vegetable seed oils."* I'm surprised but pleased to hear a little _equivocation._ Salad dressings were my last source of them until I switched to expensive avocado based salad dressings about a month ago. Now I can enjoy some inexpensive soybean oil dressings again.

[@OIOnaut]

Amber, highly appreciated of your long lasting citizen scientism. The Fadh2/Nadh ratio of fatty acids (optimal close to 0.5) is a very compelling hypothesis.

[@truthseeker9958]

It’s such a treat to hear so many expert opinions on vegetable oil. It seems many people prefer avocado oil, however, an article “ The dark side of avocado oil” suggested that avocado oil could be carcinogenic? Any comments?

[@groovecouple4644]

24:18 “replacing butter with linoleic (oils) is beneficial “….nope, sticking with butter

[@Philly1958]

Virtually every bottled salad dressing is made with vegetable oil

[@williambledsoe1812]

Gotta look for brands like Primal Kitchen.

[@engc4953]

And for some reason people tend to buy dressings instead of making it. It’s so simple to make and much less waste. In the past anytime I bought any they almost alway ended up in the garbage.

[@petercyr3508]

Why consume anything that got into the food supply so relatively recently and quite frankly, out of ignorance? Things like these oils and sugar. Now we know better.

[@muguet837]

Chinese food originally uses both seed oil and animal fat, but the seed oil transitionally is all cold processed which keeps the original taste and smells of the seeds, this is extremely different from current vegetable oil in the market. However, nowadays the big food companies have already changed this tradition, and in China now, only passents in small villages who make cold processed seed oil on their own still use such traditional seed oil.

[@nathanshackelford7812]

100 percent correct. And that on top of American food exports to China is why obesity rates are rising so rapidly there. They are going through same exact thing that happened in USA, just about 40 years behind.

[@yay-cat]

I really liked the balance of guests and opposing views! I think I agree with your interpretation of the information available as well but I’ll have a sleep on it and see what I think in the morning :)

[@tiffanyschneiderraff1670]

Great episode!

[@darlafitzpatrick8770]

I like Dr. Weiss, and can sort of see his point about the dose being the poison. I too have been skeptical of those who seem to think seed oils are the ONLY cause of illness (the truth is always somewhere between the extremes) -- but his statements that confounded me are that he mentioned avoiding processed food and refined carbohydrates. Does he not realize "vegetable" oils are are inherently unnatural and highly processed? Sure he does. I guess his point is purely based on quantity consumed, but those oils appear in nearly everything on grocery store shelves are used routinely in restaurants to cook what would be considered "real" foods. His comment that people don't pour canola oil on their salads is flat wrong if those people use commercial dressings, which almost always are canola- or soybean oil-based. Cook your own real food, and you'll be better off.

[@MarkusWaas]

Yeah, maybe what he means is people following his advice to eat whole foods are not consuming seed oils in large amounts. But if that's what he meant, it really should have been made more clear.

[@greendeane1]

I never eat out. I cook all my food from scratch.

[@Whineboy]

Same here, perhaps the only thing good in my life to come out of COVID19.

[@toni4729]

Me too, and I use animal fats. It's the only thing to use.

[@seth.heerschap]

Do you have friends? I feel like it's tough not to. Eating is such a social thing in this society

[@koolburn5218]

I disagree with Dr Weis and his approach. He's awkwardly ignoring the subject and subconsciously knows the seed oils are a problem. The fact he uses olive and avocado oil in his life and can't answer why he doesn't use other oils says it all.

[@Sean2046]

Mad respect for this vid. I really like hearing all sides.

[@torstrasburg8289]

What a compendium! Well done, Dr. Scher. It's maddening that it's apparently impossible at this point in time to gain a full evidence-based understanding of the issue because experts differ so dramatically. Generally, in the carnivore/animal-based/low-carb world, it is taken as given that seed oils are not optimal for health. Many elevate their status to the number one detrimental factor affecting overall health, inflammatory and metabolic conditions, including pre-diabetes and diabetes. Major influencers are adamant about the pernicious effects of PUFAs. This episode casts a large shadow of doubt on this absolutist conclusion. The average layperson trying to do the best they can for their health by eating the diet deemed most appropriate for human beings, is left with a spinning head. Dr. Scher's non-dogmatic approach is, for me, the most appealing.

[@nswhorse]

I would love to listen to a direct discussion between Ben Bikman and Nicola Guess.

[@warriorgoddesspamela2549]

I attend a meeting on most Wednesday mornings at a local restaurant. Because of my sensitivities to soy, dairy and wheat, they make my eggs using butter, not oil. I mainly try to avoid eating breakfast out elsewhere because I usually end up running to the bathroom before leaving a restaurant.

[@nswhorse]

I'd be interested to hear Nicola's opinion on what the causes of chronic diseases of diabetes and atherosclerosis are, and what evidence she bases that on.

[@adlsaias]

So the "human researcher" has not mentioned the randomized controlled trials that were done more the 30 years ago

[@prcrane11]

Dr.Weiss, excellent point 👍

[@bobmciver6437]

'Context matters':Nutritional studies do a poor job of controlling for:1)hyper/hypo caloric intake;2)hyper/hypo activity levels;3)nutrient/metabolite density. Extremely complex to control for all 3 (especially 3 - though I believe that data for all-cause-mortality curves for individual nutrients/metabolites will certainly help the clarification process). For now,I am sticking to a mildly hypocaloric diet,hyper activity regimen, and an ongoing exploration of optimal nutrient intake...and listening to Diet Doctor podcasts...

[@GregariousAntithesis]

The most important point here is i do not like the idea of using industrial processed oils. Food made in a lab in contrast seems like a bad idea the more we know about Agra business practices and genetic modified crops. Im not fanatically about a small amount of seed oil in a salad dressing if im eating out as an example. im 55 been eating seed oils in moderation my whole life. i make my own salad dressing at home now i use olive and avocado. Cook with ghee and tallow. Sugars, starches and grain in foods should be a far bigger concern.

[@mountainmommarealestate2205]

You need to interview Tucker Goodrich on this topic.

[@boondoggle4820]

I think that what Sirtoli said about timeframe is critically important. I want to know what happens long term and in the context of what diet, not just what happens in a short study. Industrial seed oils are a processed food and I don’t trust that it’s healthy long term to consume it vs. fats as they’ve occurred naturally in nature throughout human history.

[@JasonActualization]

Exactly right. These oils will slowly oxidize your body and cause chronic disease.

[@user-tv8oc7sm3x]

Hexane is a solvent used extensively in the food industry for the extraction of various products such as vegetable oils, fats, flavours, fragrances, colour additives or other bioactive ingredients. As it is classified as a “processing aid”, it does not have to be declared on the label under current legislation

[@mccpesh]

1. Is it a natural whole food that is evolutionarily appropriate? 2. Did this "food" coming to existence primarily as a need to deal with an industrial biproduct? 3. Did the Minnesota and Sydney heart studies demonstrate conclusively that people that replaced saturated fat with seed oils die much earlier? This discussion was interesting but honestly this is kind of a no brainer that we don't need to take the risk of having this as a major source of energy. The burden of proof is showing that it is safe.

[@KenJackson_US]

_"Evolutionarily"?_ Sorry to drift off topic, but how can anyone _possibly_ still believe all of today's life evolved from a common ancestor in light of the revelations of molecular biology?! Doesn't detailed knowledge of proteins and mitochondria put the lie to that?

[@ronaldbennett1655]

It’s so nice that even the “medical professionals or research experts“ all have differing views on this. My personal feelings based on my research is that seed oils in and of themselves aren’t responsible for the dramatic changes in diabetes and heart disease and obesity/morbid obesity over the past 50 years so much as the refined and highly processed greens and sweeteners. I do believe the oils have contributed because many of the processed foods include them, because if they’re cheapness as well as they are used to fry almost every Fried good. Our body does have a preferred ratio of different fats as well as sugar levels, but it is a magnificent creation that we have overwhelmed with modern food. I am personally doing carnivore at the time with the intent to add fruits and some vegetables back in later. The way my body has responded has been incredible with regards to arthritis and aches and pains. I have not lost a significant amount of weight over the last eight weeks, but that is also because I’m consuming 2 to 4 pounds a day. I will start dropping that amount down to under 2 pounds per day beginning in April. Not every diet is correct for everyone, but there exist diets that are extremely bad for us, and sadly the pharmaceutical industry and food industry could care less about your health in general. They do not pay the cost with their health and lives.

[@sabby123456789]

Should we avoid walnuts, pistachios, and almonds because they contain mostly linoleic acid?

[@mdesm2005]

In the 1st minute of Dr. Weiss' talking (7:10 - 8:21), he basically said nothing, by 9:31 we're promised "I'm going to say it directly" ... at 10:45 we get from him "I'm sorta talking out of both sides of my mouth" ... So I recommend you just skip the first 15 minutes

[@nqcowboy6874]

He was terrible. I nearly quit the video after the first two guests.

[@eugeniebreida1583]

UNimpressive.

[@lanetteehrhardt1225]

I agree 100 percent with Dr Tro's comment. When I walk in a restaurant now vs before I changed my diet, I definitely can smell the oils they use. And if I get something fried I can taste it! I've made comments about it to my family and they think I'm crazy I can't wait to let them hear this 🤣

[@NoOctopuss]

I notice it, too! Fried food at restaurants tastes terrible to me now, and the smell is also unappetising. Fried animal fat smells and tastes amazing!

[@StormyRussian]

You'll cover all your body needs for omega-6 with extra virgin olive oil and animal fats, no need for seed oils at all, with exception maybe for some high oleic sunflower oil for occasional deep-frying :). And if you need to use some limited amounts of seed oils for particular health reasons, such as cold pressed flaxseed oil, black cumin oil, sesame oil, black currant oil etc., always get them super fresh (all PUFAs are extremely prone to oxidizing).

[@OIOnaut]

Raphael, I agree, so I am heavily biased. I personaly am testingh these ROS Coupling switch mechanisms and would not go eat out more than 4 times / year. I have calculated that will keep me below 2% of INTENTIONAL LA exposure. Still working to avoid unintentional (non grassfed and non ruminant red meat) LA intake. And I miss spelled DobromylskyJ ;)

[@loganwolv3393]

Very intresting, i actually didin't expect you to introduce guests that actually say that vegetable oils are not harmful, but hey it's good to listen to people with variyng opinions. Just another word on procceced food, i'm wondering if the lack of micronutrients alone has any significant effect on satiety and hunger? And then you just eat high fat high carb meals with tons of calories and you can't stop because yeah the carbs and fats are delicious, and fats especially are more satisfiyng but if there's not enough vitamins and minerals in there you simply don't get satiated. So i'm really curious what your thoughts on this are.

[@SimplyHuman186]

at the end of the day, it is an individual decision to choose what we believe because there is data that supports opposites.

[@onionjello]

Some data is of poor quality. Some data is produced by people with conflicts of interest. Some data is funded by entities that will gain monetarily.

[@SimplyHuman186]

@@onionjello yes absolutely!

[@torstrasburg8289]

True, but belief doesn't reliably lead to truth. Amongst all the noise of the data, a reliable signal exists and must be determined. For that we need to apply the scientific method. Hopefully some day ambiguity will be a thing of the past.

[@SimplyHuman186]

@@torstrasburg8289 oh definitely

[@defeqel6537]

@@onionjello should always look at study funders (and sometimes need to dig into the funders of funder)

[@norcofreerider604]

Seed oils are ultra-processed, cold-pressed olive and avocado oil are not. That is enough for me to avoid seed oils whenever I can.

[@davidx.1504]

I'm not sure how there's any legitimate debate over the harm caused by lifetime ingestion of added linoleic acid at this point. The mechanism studies and randomized controlled trials should have put this to bed years ago. The "blunt" doctor who said the vegetable oil debate doesn't matter cooks with olive and avocado oil and not vegetable oil. He even said he's talking out both sides of his mouth, so he's lying to himself and he knows it. The British doc claiming linoleic acid is tied to better health relied on epidemiological studies, which are garbage for finding causal relationships. I'm not sure why Bret and company pulled their punches on this topic, when the answer is obvious. Maybe they have friends or donors who are pro vegetable oil?

[@eugeniebreida1583]

I was confused by his choice of line up, and his own responses to a number of them, as well.

[@markeboy1658]

Great discussion. For the longest time I been treating seed oils as poison. I will still will really only use olive oil and avocado oil. That said I don’t use a lot of that either. I won’t be as freaked out knowing the food is cooked in a cheaper oil.

[@petercyr3508]

Funny story: Amber Ohearn saw me eat a peice of cornbread with my fatty brisket breaking a 3 day fast at Low Carb Houston. Boy was I in trouble!

[@missdemeanor2637]

i love this channel and i really like Ben Bikman but i wish he wouldn't feel the need to 'apologize' (for lack of a better word) when he states that finding seed oils occurring 'naturally' or as they are found in nature is a good thing! it is a good thing AND we *should* absolutely be eating as close to how foods are found in nature as we possibly can! processed food is what has gotten us into this mess of mass obesity and chronic health crises.

[@missdemeanor2637]

and it doesn't make one a 'hippie' to appreciate and recognize that whole natural foods are optimal.

[@matthewmahon8204]

Chips are the number one snack in the US. I imagine giant vats of heated sunflower oil. How often do they replace the oil? With the formation of insanely reactive aldehydes, acrolein, heptanal, etc, one can imagine a slurry of Frankenstein molecules with these aldehydes reacting with themselves, the sunflower oil and the starches in the potatoes. How are these molecules metabolized? Or are they treated like toxic compounds in the liver?

[@anne-karinwilby2303]

What about fat soluble vitamins? Which is the best source?

[@btudrus]

Could someone, please, point me to the epidemiologic studies mentioned by Nicola Guess? I would like to read these myself and make my own opinion..

[@wocket42]

I would like to know, too. If you google, you can find studys that say the opposite or the veggy oil is olive oil, which isn't in question here.

[@lgolem09l]

One thing I find really important to know about scientific studies is that the statistics used are sensitive to the size of the study. The more data points (people, measurements, etc) you have, the higher the chance of the statistical model to say "this effect is statistically significant", which for a scienzist simple means "I have publishable results". This means that with huge studies, tiny (and maybe meaningless) differences can be reported as significant. A separate problem is that a study that finds no difference is often simply not published, because "it's not interesting".

[@brucegillies1694]

The “process” of making a Seed oil is very much unnatural and the temperature of the journey this combination of ingredients goes through really tells the story ! I’m sure the Seed industry will do what they can do to keep volume of their product up ! As a nation of sick people the cost of HEALTH is still skyrocketing , this resource could be used for so many things !