How They Caught The Golden State Killer

Your genetic code is probably already in a database, without you ever giving a sample or permission. This video is sponsored by Brilliant. The first 200 people to sign up via brilliant.org/veritasium get 20% off a yearly subscription.
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A huge thanks to Paul Holes, Billy Jensen, Brett Williams, Dr Connie Bormans and Dr Doc Edge for being part of this video. Thanks to Verogen and Family Tree DNA for giving me access to film.
Thanks to Sonya Pemberton, Joe Hanson, Raquel Nuno, CGP Grey, and numerous Patreon supporters for helpful feedback on an earlier version of this video.
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References:
Phillips, C. (2018). The Golden State Killer investigation and the nascent field of forensic genealogy. Forensic Science International: Genetics, 36, 186-188. -- ve42.co/Phillips2018
Guerrini, C. J., Robinson, J. O., Petersen, D., & McGuire, A. L. (2018). Should police have access to genetic genealogy databases? Capturing the Golden State Killer and other criminals using a controversial new forensic technique. PLoS biology, 16(10), e2006906. -- ve42.co/Guerrini
Ram, N., Guerrini, C. J., & McGuire, A. L. (2018). Genealogy databases and the future of criminal investigation. Science, 360(6393), 1078-1079. -- ve42.co/Ram2019
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Special thanks to Patreon supporters: Andrew, Diffbot, Micah Mangione, MJP, Gnare, Nick DiCandilo, Dave Kircher, Edward Larsen, Burt Humburg, Blake Byers, Dumky, Evgeny Skvortsov, Meekay, Bill Linder, Paul Peijzel, Mac Malkawi, Michael Schneider, Big Badaboom, Ludovic Robillard, Jim buckmaster, fanime96, Juan Benet, Ruslan Khroma, Robert Blum, Richard Sundvall, Lee Redden, Vincent, Marinus Kuivenhoven, Alfred Wallace, Clayton Greenwell, Michael Krugman, Cy 'kkm' K'Nelson, Sam Lutfi, Ron Neal
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Executive Producer: Derek Muller
Writer: Derek Muller
Animators: Ivy Tello, Another Angle 3D Visuals
SFX: Shaun Clifford
Camerapeople: Derek Muller, Raquel Nuno, Shirley Dutoit, Emily Zhang
Editor: Derek Muller
Producers: Derek Muller, Casey Rentz, Petr Lebedev, Emily Zhang
Additional video supplied by Getty Images
Music from Epidemic Sound epidemicsound.com
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[@pedroscoponi4905]

The issue with me isn't so much whether my privacy outweighs the need to catch violent criminals, it's whether I can trust institutions to not abuse of the privacy we've given up. And you really, really can't - and as the video demonstrates, even if you distrust them to the point of not being willing to share information yourself, your privacy might still be intruded upon anyway. This is a really complex, kinda haunting thing to think about.

[@vezokpiraka]

Yeah. If it's strictly used to catch violent criminals, I'm more than happy to help, but it's never going to stop there.

[@connect2437]

@@vezokpiraka I assume it would actually. At least in name. I am fearful thought that it could be used to setup anyone and in massive, massive numbers.

[@TechyBen]

What about DNA production? If someone "fakes" DNA at a crime scene? The world is getting more and more complicated. But this process in general seems to help track down more evidence, and that is a good thing.

[@MBunn-uf1we]

it's already out of peoples control now, innumerable corporations and public institutions make use of powerful algorithms to search databases like this all the time, examples include the risk assessment software used by insurance companies, credit scoring by finance, to the risk assessment software being used by courts.

[@MrSpikegee]

Yeah the dude comparing a loss to someone’s privacy is totally missing the point. Probably on purpose. It’s a prelude to the stance politicians will take to have dangerous laws passed.

[@tyranneous]

I'm not worried about the DNA part, the bit I'm anxious about is the misuse of the police. It is _SO_ easy to put someone's DNA somewhere. It's so easy to implicate someone.

[@Superduper666]

True. Blow your nose and they have your DNA to smear around.

[@thetalantonx]

Right? They caught the guy from DNA on his car door and in his trash. You ever throw away any DNA samples? Ever have a cold or hayfever?

[@nochance3914]

Do you think CCTV footages have left job or retired or what? Infact I know a story of a guy from India who avoided serious charge against him just because he used an ATM 500 km away from the location of murder at the same time. Few people killed life of a girl and put the blame on the guy and said he ran away. Feminist media took this and he soon became a national criminal. Only one News Channel that has Wion from India helped and investigated for the boy and his life was saved.

[@trumpetperson11]

Exactly. What if some murderer decides to steal some tissues from the trash and wipe them around whenever he goes to kill someone. DNA 'evidence' seems like a slippery slope. People seem to trust it implicitly because, well, it is very accurate. But this completely blinds them on the fact that there is no proof that the DNA found is even linked to the killer.

[@zahirkhan778]

You know what i hadnt thought about this.

[@kartik_adhia]

Her using duck duck go was the best part of this video. Sorta summarizes how skewed people can be when it comes to them personally vs others.

[@squid2754]

to be fair, we're talking about different types of information. duck duck go prevents you from online tracking, which can certainly lead to a myriad of different cyber-issues compared to sharing one's genetic information.

[@fourierbird]

What in the world are you on about? Did you even listen to her views on genetic privacy?

[@GauravSingh-ky6qr]

I was going to comment this! Take this duck 🦆

[@poopingducks]

Love that she was using it on Chrome lmao.

[@mateobravo9212]

Well seen!

[@CREEmusic]

I love how the video ends on her not wanting her searches tracked while promoting everyone have their DNA tracked LOL. The problem has never been a system being used correctly, its always been its misuse.

[@joelt7869]

It's a genius addition to the video. Hypocrite.

[@frostfamily5321]

Isn't this problem there not being a law saying that health insurance companies are required to charge all of their customers the same price because that law prevents disability discrimination.

[@Anon_571]

Yet liberals claim that governments and other orgs like the FBI, NSA, CIA, WHO, WEF, etc., couldn't possibly misuse their power or fall into corruption. Only a liberals' conspiracy theory can be taken seriously? Funny how that works.

[@MADNESSCOMBAT10]

​@@frostfamily5321the US is the only western country without universal healthcare. The Insurance lobby can do whatever they want in that country. It will 100% come to this.

[@GR33TINGSEARTHL1NGS]

​@@joelt7869 That isn't hypocritical. Hyprocisy is the practise of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case. You can simultaneously encourage people to do something seeing a greater collectively achieved good whilst also saying you don't want to do that thing yourself. There is no claim there of having a higher standard or a more noble belief. It's important not to get the micro confused with the macro. Often times two different standards are going to be totally justified when you're dealing with two totally different things. An extreme example to highlight the difference is, I might personally think that murder is wrong, and I might preach to others that they shouldn't murder, but I might also be completely open about the fact that I murder people regularly and I can't help myself because it feels so good. In that case, I'm not a hypocrite. I'm not pretending to have higher standards. I'm openly admitting that I'm doing a bad thing whilst preaching that others should do the opposite.

[@mehwhyausername1]

"My biggest concern is health insurance. If you have someone's DNA profile, and that gets into the wrong hands, or laws enacted, resulting in health insurance companies having access to knowing that this person has a proclivity to Parkinson's, then rates could skyrocket. This is a massive privacy issue." there needs to be a full video about this and other downsides

[@gatisfauss5400]

It's a Twilight kind of scenario. But be sure any data if chance strikes will be abused. And reality show that seemingly minuscule data places gathered in large enough quantity grants thus possibility.

[@chriskeel3096]

they got your freaking dna and you major concern is insurance rates? stop worshipping the dollar, psychophant. they can clone you, and accuse you of what your clone did, thats not concerning?

[@PapaWheelie1]

@@chriskeel3096 - I can think of easier and cheaper ways of setting someone up

[@archiemisc]

@@chriskeel3096 They can't instantly clone an adult version of you. Stop reading those conspiracy theory blogs.

[@drmadjdsadjadi]

It is illegal for health insurance companies to use genetic information to determine rates or deny coverage. Go look up the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008. Life insurance companies, disability insurance companies, and long-term care insurance companies, on the other hand . . . .

[@_nemo]

Wow, that DuckDuckGo ending really hits a certain ironic spot.

[@gasun1274]

she should've used startpage

[@LukeSumIpsePatremTe]

Where is the irony?

[@wouterzonneveld2305]

@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe how do you not see the irony in this lol

[@superbbackhand180]

@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe I agree. I fail to see the irony in someone maintaining a catalog of peoples DNA and being able to track them, without even use of the service nor consent being worried about their own privacy and not wanting to be cataloged in Googles database, even though they would give consent for it

[@ezerish]

And family pictures on the wall being blurred out for privacy

[@SevenGC89]

I think the scariest part of the whole video was how he was involved with the taskforce actively working to catch him and I remember hearing the story of the guy in the group saying something to the effect of "If he ever came into my house I would kill him" or something to that effect and he was actually in the group listening to the whole thing and hit that dudes house shortly after. Pretty scary how you really never know what goes on behind closed doors of people you think you know.

[@Asiandramas99]

When in the start of video those guys mentioned that the killer was not leaving any fingerprints… I immediately thought it could be someone from police or who work closely with fingerprints thing… I don’t know if investigators at that time thought about it

[@TransistorBased]

Kira...

[@TIOLIOfficial]

If that is true, I love that story. Too many quasi tough guys.

[@nodruj8681]

It's most likely a myth. nut the fact that you want a 'tough guy' to have his wife r a p e d or for him to be killed is such a loser thing to say, i can tell you have revenge fantasies against more popular folks@@TIOLIOfficial

[@The_ZeroLine]

@@Asiandramas99It only takes not being an idiot to ensure not leaving prints. Luckily, most criminals ARE idiots and extremely reckless.

[@BM-jy6cb]

In the UK, the RIPA act was introduced "to counter terrorism". It wasn't long before local councils were using it to snoop on people who were using relative's addresses to get their kids into a decent school or even those putting their bins it for collection on the wrong day. When the National DNA database was set up, it was supposed to be for convicted criminals to prevent further offending. When Tony Bliar was later asked what proportion of the UK population he'd like to see on the database, he replied "the maximum possible". The police asked the general public in Croydon for their help catching a serial rapist by giving a DNA sample "simply to eliminate them from the investigation". All their DNA was immediately put on the national DNA database and the police refused to remove it after the investigation was closed. When COVID struck, police were given unprecedented powers "to protect the public". Almost immediately, stories broke about police using drones to identify people walking their dog in the middle of the countryside and videos appeared with police officers threatening people with arrest for letting their kids play in their front gardens. Do I trust current governments and state institutions? No. Do I trust future governments and institutions? Absolutely not!

[@harrywhittaker7563]

>Bliar I see what you did there lol

[@barbthegreat586]

In what relation are the use of drones and DNA database?

[@jimpim6454]

Tony Blair, vile creature who should be in the tower of London for demographically and culturally obliterating a once great country.

[@WiltedGoldRoses]

@@barbthegreat586 the point is that whether it’s through drones or DNA analysis, people in power are known to use technological advancements to violate our civil rights.

[@xcurrentbreeze6626]

@@barbthegreat586 Both are powers being abused by the government. It's really not that hard to see the relation...

[@ErikUden]

“Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.” - Edward Snowden

[@ekkehard8]

It's different, except in the level of ridiculousness

[@ivanivanovic5857]

I call the argument of "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" the greatest intellectual goatse of all time.

[@lobsterbark]

"Those who don't move don't notice their chains." is a much better quote that communicates the same idea.

[@ErikUden]

@@lobsterbark absolutely

[@VaiskHD]

@@ivanivanovic5857 seriously lmao. One is about constraining someone to speak because you disagree with them and the other is about constraining someone's liberty because they've got something to hide. Waaaay different levels

[@Kingsleyrulz]

The potential for abuse of this in the hands of the state is insane.

[@pbp6741]

Chinese Communist Party has entered the conversation.

[@Razor-gx2dq]

Tyranny has entered the conversation.

[@gasun1274]

the death of a million is a statistic, the death of one is a tragedy. - Stalin this is why we should avoid ourselves getting too emotional based on single cases. ultimately more evil will follow causing suffering for more people for longer if we make uninformed decisions.

[@IceSpoon]

I don't even worry about the state, but private companies. Health, food, everything can be tracked down so they offer the best/most profitable products to particular people. The Parkinson example was on point there.

[@jlight7346]

Well yeah, but everyone knows that the state has never done anything wrong and never will. /s

[@guyelisha1896]

The criminal himself, in this case, was a law enforcement officer. Thus, it is hard for us to trust them with our information...

[@Frostiedkdk]

There is no profession in this world that does not have psychos hired, that does not mean that the profession is bad does it? You certainly interacted with several of them in your life already.

[@plasticweapon]

he was a cop for six years in the 70's, and he got fired for shoplifting halfway through his rampage. so what?

[@windwaker0rules]

​@@Frostiedkdk A psychopath was hired by a public organisation that is required to have the highest respect for the law, and he committed some of the worst crimes ever.

[@lunadyke6873]

For real , so many ppl not even talking about it

[@kainepercle4549]

But that’s how he got caught isn’t it?

[@thebigman8250]

That moment where the scientist said she was paranoid about privacy really hits. Insanely human moment.

[@theondono]

It’s curious to see everyone in the video talking as if data breaches are not a thing. Dna like all biometrics is tricky because once it’s out, there’s no way to make it private again.

[@Secret_Moon]

Yeah. Give me flashback of that Apple backdoor key.

[@banzaigerm]

what is this insane technique by this commenter to clickbait their profile(s)???

[@CoffeeD_1]

You can’t change your DNA code after its breached. And I also really feel like we have another snowdon-esque scenario before us, just with DNA

[@bigmango1376]

@@banzaigerm report them, I did the same.

[@david_junior]

@@Secret_Moon 😳Could you please talk more about that

[@bartz0rt928]

This is a pretty fundamental debate. The industry people are saying "it's just for solving murders and rapes, and who doesn't want that?" But that limitation is completely arbitrary. They could look for who attended a protest, or a union meeting, or a gathering of political opposition. It's just that, right now, these companies aren't being bribed or coerced into that kind of cooperation. So the things being balanced aren't privacy vs apprehending a murderer, they're apprehending a murderer vs "are you confident that this will never be used in ways you disagree with, even in 100 years?"

[@gullintanni]

Germany's nazi party would likely use this kind of information to find people they want to remove. They did similar things during the war.

[@DarkDreth]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy that your own family members could violate your own privacy by using these services. Most people don't know or care, but the decisions of others could impact people that do care. If you want to use services that test DNA it should be for medical reasons and performed by a doctor that way it's protected by HIPPAA/other medical privacy laws.

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

This whole thing seems like a nice excuse to release this technology to the public's knowledge and then convince them to help create a big enough database, With shame tactics like what you said "privacy vs apprehending a murderer". For future uses like the negatives you stated.

[@discodecepticon]

An evil government doesn't need us to make a database today for them to do that crap tomorrow... they could just force people to give DNA.

[@peter9477]

@@discodecepticon Then it's in the open. The worse risk is that this could happen behind closed doors with a government that is supposedly not evil. If there even is such a thing... it's no longer clear. Basically all current governments appear to be evil, at least in some of their actions.

[@expomarker]

It was one day in 4th grade, it was just a regular school day for me and my brother. During recess we saw a few helicopters flying around our school, and we thought we were getting filmed, so of course we wave and said hi as all children would. A few years later we find out those helicopters weren't filming us, but instead the house of the Golden state killer. He lived in the same block as my house, my elementary school, and we never knew.

[@joelt7869]

That's what you get for living in California

[@dizasteraz1691]

That fact about deangelo being a police officer when he was doing the dirties was really quickly glossed over and brushed away...

[@3kodokushi]

I didnt even heard it. I just know it from the comments now

[@masudsaleh5155]

​@@3kodokushi😮😮😮😮

[@manojkulkarni4692]

The fact that it took two years (noticed the calendar) for you to collect the whole data shows the level of dedication and effort put into making a video informative. I like how you grew from making scientific explanation videos to making videos about how science actually helps the world.

[@michaeld4861]

Right! That's quite impressive. Wonder how many videos he has in the works right now.

[@vince4503]

yeah, Oct 2019. Almost 2 years now from the interview, holy.

[@itsnotyasir]

Wow... great catch.

[@NWoutdoorsman]

I noticed that as well

[@pepelepew1227]

it also means out of that 100 thousand cold cases with dna, only a few will get caught before the statute of limitations expire due to manpower constraints 😆

[@GaltJohn2008]

My biggest problem with this is the enormous amount of DNA tracking and testing to find a criminal is OK, but death row inmates who get exonerated have to petition the court for years for a DNA test on existing samples to prove their innocence.

[@woutermollema]

I expect law enforcement to be very selective who they spend their recources on weather it's to catch the bad guys or protect the innocent. Life is not particularly fair.

[@JacobthePoshPotato]

Pretty one sided isnt it.

[@david-dj8or]

Even if there is evidence to fully clear a suspect it can be withheld, the suspect is told to run along and forget about it and the cloud is left hanging over his head

[@JacobthePoshPotato]

@@david-dj8or not to meantion media has already told everyone that person knows and destroyed their reputation forever.

[@KaitouKaiju]

@@woutermollema easy enough to say that when you're not the one being imprisoned wrongfully. Meanwhile the actual criminal is running free

[@martind.799]

The problem as briefly mentionned in the video is that it is NOT just about improving public safety tracking criminals. Same data can and will be used (if not already) by a whole lot of other corporations like banks/insurances to filter their customers. I wouldn't be surprised if those innocent looking CEOs aren't referenced in their own databases and not encouraging relatives to give their samples.

[@SK-fq1by3977]

Pelosi told members a few years back anyone working at Pentagon not to do Ancestry DNA. 🤔🤔🤔

[@ivered6786]

For several years, they have been trying to convince me to submit my tests to find out about relatives around the world with the help of DNA. And I dragged this decision all the time. And watching this video today, I realized that I did the right thing, that I didn't want to share my analogies for so long. It was called the law on bypassing if necessary.

[@ayviondenar3461]

I feel like your decision won’t really matter as long as you have a relative who’s willing to share their genetic data.

[@reflex9238]

@@ayviondenar3461 won't give the full picture luckily depending on how close the relatives are, perhaps we could see an entire clan of people who refuse to submit their data to these databases, aside from paternity.

[@ericpeterson6520]

The fact that the serial killer they were looking for turned out to be a police officer really makes me feel more comfortable about giving the police as much power and access to private information as possible

[@BjsCity]

Ok, THIS comment is a good one

[@peterkelley6344]

I found it to be an interesting twist of events for the cycle of the case.

[@singerofsongs468]

I can’t believe this was glossed over the way it was. How can we trust our current law enforcement system if it has demonstrated time and time again its high potential for abuse?

[@impguardwarhamer]

this whole damn orwelian nightmare could have been avoided if they just decided to try and tackle police corruption instead of selling out their own people to centuries of future dictatorships to come

[@theophanialily9186]

@@singerofsongs468 This channel is pretty solidly pro-establishment power.

[@Herbie_Cucumber]

I would have appreciated more time spent actually examining the potential abuses that can arise down the line from the normalization of these practices, as the video is very one-sided in given views (all LEOs and DNA companies cooperating with them). There was only one brief mention of something like health insurance companies using it to determine coverage, and I'm sure that's only the tip of the iceberg regarding bad actors, public and private, who'd like to know more about you.

[@consciouscode8150]

I don't personally see that much potential for abuse, at our level and for the next 100 years at least this DNA information won't be useful for much more than kinship queries or analyzing health risk factors. The fact that it isn't even really your data to keep private I think is what makes this not really a moral grey area, you share your DNA with your family of course they're not going to keep it private. I do wish they addressed the privacy concerns a lot more though because people in the comments are running wild with "if"s because the video left a big gaping hole there. At least cover immediate concerns like "they could determine your likes and preferences!" and debunk them

[@DMitsukirules]

I personally feel that the entire spiel by them is exactly the best arguments against the entire thing. I can't imagine somebody walking away from this thinking how great it is...but then again, hey, who knows.

[@turdferguson3400]

@@consciouscode8150 there's definitely tons of room for abuses here.

[@TheTim466]

@@turdferguson3400 Care to give some more than the health insurance one? Haven't seen much else in the comments so far.

[@ravirajyaguru5905]

Humans are masters of exploiting any given information for personal gain/benefits. So yeah, potential negatives must be discussed first, before discussing any positives.

[@jimothysmithers9476]

My mom lived through this, her and my grandparents were terrified when he was in sacramento. The look on my mom's face when he was caught was like everything just came back to her.

[@suyashsngh250]

I rarely say this, but this is absolutely amazing! I am glad I saw this video. One of the few videos that blew my mind and expanded my way of thinking.

[@incorporealnuance]

"he did everything he could to leave no trace" he was a cop, wasn't he. "former police officer" LOL

[@prabhatsingh9111]

My hunch is loner type of a guy , well could be a cop as well, probably a small buisness owner, who could stalked the prey in his free time, and location of houses should have played a big role, probably wouldnt have attacked someone living in a busy street/apartment complex

[@witticisms]

@@prabhatsingh9111 it was a former cop according to the video.

[@pestbarn]

Yup! The Golden State Killer is Joseph DeAngelo, a former police officer who committed at least 13 murders, 50 rapes, and 120 burglaries across California between 1974 and 1986.

[@johnestupido1418]

@@pestbarn A man needs a hobby.

[@David-rj1ru]

@@prabhatsingh9111 BAAAAAAAD PRRRRROOOOOOOFFFIIIIIIIIILLLLLLEEEEE

[@Adam-cs2qm]

In the hands of a theoretical, benevolent government that is able to keep this information from private corporations, this is wonderful. In the real world, with government corruption, private companies lobbying officials, widespread government employees using confidential information for personal use, this is terrifying.

[@MrDarren690]

Very true. Good idea but we still have too much rust and rot that abuse is concern :(

[@Muskar2]

@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 Communism is not authoritarian by definition. There's variations from libertarian to authoritarian. To be fair, libertarian ideologies are rarely realized so we are always left with the authoritarian examples in history. But libertarianism originally stems from Marxism/Communism, so I think it's a highly interpretative and politically loaded example. The OP is specifically concerned with centralized power (i.e. authoritarian), and I think it's important to be very specific when dealing with political topics. E.g. your point could be made with dictatorships just as well.

[@sjorsangevare]

@King Pistachion The drawback is if the definition of "crime" or "criminal" changes in the future

[@__goat__]

@King Pistachion There was this guy named Hitler, I'm pretty sure you don't want to be in a DNA database when he is in charge, do you?

[@Jaguarboy11]

@@Muskar2 You're correct about the existence of social libertarian examples of communism (anarcho-communes, etc), but libertarianism precedes Marxist theory by a good bit, being mostly an offshoot of classical liberalism from the Enlightenment period (Locke, Rousseau, etc)

[@shanayaranashetty]

FACINATING video. I love the way you put the information together. It’s inspiring to see people in the STEM influencer space communicate such important topics in a simple and engaging manner. Please keep doing what you are doing!!!

[@LovingLioness]

Great video. Thank you so much. This is the best video on this topic that I have seen. Great job!

[@Sleepygrinder]

This is incredibly troubling. Privacy is so misunderstood, people think : "I've done nothing wrong, this doesn't apply to me, they can use my information." But it's not about you, it never was. It's about those who have access to it, what they can do with it, and what they could become in the future. And it's that last point that's critical. There's no way to know if and when your own government can take a turn for the worse. It's happened countless times throughout history and it's happening right now in several countries like China, Russia, Belarus, Afghanistan, to name a few. With such a tool to their arsenal, a government can dictate what is right or wrong and have the means to have absolute control. "It doesn't apply to me" you say? Think again.

[@ashtar3876]

That's the thing. This would only work if the government had the exact same opinions and morals as you do, which often they won't.

[@monhi64]

Yeah you guys have been saying that this is gonna happen since the 1970s when we really started to lose privacy. Privacy is never gonna exist it’s a utopian idea in any advanced society.

[@JosephHenryDrawing]

this is so true, thanks for saying that!

[@hi__im_zack4890]

In this case, the government doesn't even own the data, but your argument still applies. What if the corporations realized they could make more profit selling your data (I don't know what the terms of services are, but that has never stopped big corporations before). They could sell your DNA to health insurance companies to prevent you from getting coverage. They could sell your data to employers. I heard of a case where companies took life insurance policies out on their "at-risk" employees to make a profit without telling them. When the employee dies, none of the life insurance money made its way to the families. This is far from the only bad thing corporations have done and could do with this data that people are willingly giving them. This isn't to say that the government can't get access to the data. What if one day the government decided to cease the data from the DNA companies, or the companies decided to give your data to the government, as was mentioned in the video.

[@furb246]

What can they do with your information that they can't do without it? Think about it. Do you think the government not knowing that you prefer apple pie over cherry pie will stop them from arresting you on trumped up charges if that's what they want to do? If they ALREADY have evil intent, they don't need any more information about you to act on that intent. Cops are killing people in the street for no reason, right now, today, and y'all think they need to know your DNA sequence to oppress you?

[@brixiu5]

I'm kinda bummed there is no expert that seems to specialize in critiquing genetic databases in this video. Seems like everyone presented has biases toward supporting the process.

[@usser1138]

I mean most people have a bias against it anyways. This video shouldn’t change their mind

[@richmelchr]

the technology makes their job easier.

[@mikelisputnieks6307]

One of them was against at the end though

[@sevoftalpha]

@@usser1138 I suppose so, but still it's part of the topic, and in this case it's not really just 'a' concern, it's THE concern people have over seeing information abused time and time again, private companies have shown very little reason to be trusted with personal data and discussing this aspect while discussing the pros, would have been pretty meaningful. Lost chance, it's but one video, still Veritasium had better standards when coverin other topics

[@mattthelearner2797]

Yes, it is very, very scary and It's bound to get worse. Just remember what the UN's 2030 agenda says: "you will own nothing and you will be happy". The scariest thing is that a lot, if not most people with significant influence in the science community, support this agenda blindly and enthusiastically and don't want you to even question these things (which is extremely unscientific). If you believe It's just a conspiracy theory, just go visit the top universities...

[@SimonSozzi7258]

26:00 The IRONY! 🤣🤦‍♂️ She used Duck Duck Go because she's paranoid about being tracked.

[@IsuruKusumal]

I really like this format of videos - perhaps you should also do one on the Zodiak killer

[@SpareSomeChange8080]

When this company has it's inevitable data breach, it's going to be really interesting.

[@spraitukas]

No one would tell the public

[@truthboom]

Cloning the DNA then framing people lol

[@niXta123]

”When”…

[@SpareSomeChange8080]

​@@niXta123 I say "when" rather than "if" due to the fact that about 63% of all breaches come from an insider attack rather than an external attack; and the data they're holding is incredibly valuable. An employee who is: pissed off with the company, being blackmailed, being bribed, a member of a unethical competitor, or hacker group destined to commit some form of industrial espionage, is the biggest threat they can face. No firewall or antivirus will stop this, they need to police their employees extremely carefully.

[@virtuerse]

Not only will that happen but they will place innocent ppl in jail with their faulty technology. Not impressed by this at all.

[@rikuown]

Makes sense that he stopped when DNA testing came out being that he was a former police officer.

[@coolfer2]

Yeah and also how his crimes were done so cleanly

[@jessiesargent7212]

Which proves that he was always capable of controlling his behavior. He's not crazy

[@adrianbundy3249]

Apparently not a very good police officer though, not accounting for the big thing we know. He didn't even last the decade, and was fired in 1979 after trying to shoplift, and was sentenced to 6 months, and subsequently removed from public service. His employment history for the 1980s is mysterious, but from 1990 to when he was captured, a truck mechanic. He had a history of breaking the law, like not paying for gas, 1996, and threatening the police chief when he was fired. Lol. I get the picture he wasn't really liked by many of those in law enforcement decades before he was known for this. Him being an excop only speaks to that.

[@naram07]

I was just thinking that when in the video the news reel played

[@adrianbundy3249]

@@chiggsytube I'm not sure what you mean. Him, being an ex-officer, going around threatening current officers kind of voids whatever protection you would imagine being an excop would offer, don't you think?

[@chadjones1266]

The irony of using a search engine that does not track your information at a genetics lab is pretty thick.

[@signready]

Very informative and entertaining video. I had no idea how vast the DNA map would span or the ways that it can help as well as concern. Thanks!

[@tomisabum]

Kinda just breezed past the whole 'Former Police Officer Was The Killer' aspect to this story, didn't we. Someone who, if the tech existed, would have had access to such a system.

[@XanderBlade]

Hey, excellent point. Your comment should go topside STAT!

[@yoted]

Yeah, imagine if the guy used it to stalk a victim. For instance, he sees the victim at a coffee shop, grabs their used cup/tissue/whatever from the trash, then sequences it and searches it (possibly with the plausible excuse of looking for evidence from another crime). Now they know who the person is without having to follow them.

[@moahhabiib]

What amaze me , they don't have all police officer in the DNA data base under fbi ?

[@JohnBender1313]

This is gonna be part of the Dexter reboot. Lol

[@salvarious]

Explains why they didn't get caught for so long.

[@UselessDuckCompany]

This is scary stuff. What is used today for violent crime can be abused by those in power against those who threaten that power. That DuckDuckGo part was the loudest part of this video.

[@17hmr243]

to late every c19 test u wait for. was ur consent to dna and ur name

[@BernhardKohli]

Scary? This is the best way to prevent violent crime. you can regulate against potential data abuses but not against violent crime

[@Tony-il8ly]

@@BernhardKohli just wait till patriot act #2 comes out allowing the government to use this to "search for terrorists"

[@ripno2672]

@@Tony-il8ly I think the US government might consider doing this, and considering how much power most people would give a responsible government, our (irresponsible) government really shouldn't be allowed to do a lot of what it does.

[@__Mr.White__]

Exactly. And why are they storing 2 million samples? Weren't they already evaluated? Why keep them? 18:16

[@djjf94]

KZbins algorithm has been pushing your videos so hard for so long that I am only realizing now that I was not subscribed and I swear that I have been watching your videos for atleast the past year.

[@lexinicole4317]

I love the lady taking you on the tour of the facility. She smiles so wide when you get excited about the topic

[@jemangerrit1747]

I live in the netherlands. The Netherlands used to have a very good and detailed record of everyones information and bloodlines in the 20th century. Very well organized and all in one place. When it became clear that the Netherlands would be occupied by nazi Germany somoene tried to burn down this archieve but sadly the fire didnt destroy that much. The Nazis used this archieve to very affectivly identify everyone that was jewish in some way (including Anne Frank ofcourse), sometimes people that didnt even know jewish was in their blood line. This is what frankly irritates me about this video. The guy says its a mother vs somoene whos just umcomfortable. Its not, its a mother finding her child vs organized genocide. Morally it doenst matter that much what its used for now, what matters is how incredibly easy it would be for an evil government to use it for true horror. You cannot account for the government of the future

[@harrison805]

It seems that people are now so comfortable with giving up their rights without ever thinking of the potential consequences. It was only ten years ago when people were outraged about the Snowden revelations, but nobody seems to care now.

[@zacharyjordan399]

This is an excellent point, thank you for sharing.

[@MarcSpctr]

just a quote from Capt. America "THESE ORGANISATIONS ARE RUN BY PEOPLE WITH AGENDAS AND AGENDAS CHANGE."

[@Rimpelmans]

If such a filesystem was as evil as it is claimed here, surely modern goverments wouldn't implement one after WW2 right? Yet with modern databases it is now much easier to search for someones ancestry than it was in the 1940s, even with the Dutch filing system. I can't help but wonder if most people protesting on grounds of privacy are actually more protesting because DNA is relatively new than because of anything else. For instance, if you are really worried about your privacy you should definitely not use a mobile phone but I don't think many people seem to appreciate that or maybe they just don't care as much about privacy as you'd think.

[@fishlordusername891]

@@Rimpelmans personally it's a complicated situation, because mobile phones are becoming more and more necessary over time as well - it's a point of contact when you're looking for work, it's a way to access the news, it's often the most convinient way of gaining information, communicating with others, sometimes even get work done. As the internet becomes more important, so does the mobile phone. But as the internet becomes more commercialized, a lot more data and privacy is given away as well, and while you can definitely use a special adblock to get rid of some of it, it's impossible not to get tracked completely. A lot of people DO worry about the internet, phones, and the way all that affects privacy, and not taking your phones to protests is something that I've seen talked about a lot during the summer. I feel like you're also putting too much faith into the government. A government is inherently neutral, and it's going to do what benefits it most - whatever that may mean. DNA databases do, legitimately, help solve crimes - so it's easy to just say "well, WE'RE not evil, so we should get to use it". It is a risk that they're willing to take, because in their minds, the present good it gives outweighs the potential future risk. That doesn't necessarily mean that risk doesn't exist though. I don't think we should be deciding "it's not risky" just because it's what we're currently doing.

[@MattsAwesomeStuff]

Most people don't know this, but once upon a time (maybe still?), I think I read about it 15 years ago, several major printer brands would print out, on each printed page, a tiny, nearly-invisible grid of nearly-white dots in indistinguishable pale yellow ink. Single pixels. *The positions of these dots identified via a simple code the specific serial number of the printer that printed them.* Every page you printed had these on them, and you couldn't tell they were there with a naked eye, so, of course none of us ever noticed them. So, what's the problem with that? Well, suppose you're a murder, and you printed a page and left it at the scene. Law enforcement could eventually identify that your printed printed that page. Or your office printer, or whatever they seized with a warrant or perhaps whatever they could find in a warranty database. So far so good. *But what about someone who printed pamphlets exposing for example government corruption?* Someone trying to rally against a politician's opponent, or even just someone pushing for the power of police unions to be reduced? Now it's possible, with abuse, to to prevent corruption from being safe to expose. Genetic databases are the same. It's great to catch killers, rapists, and child abductors. But there is a massive potential to suppress dissent, and to make dissent too risky to consider.

[@3nertia]

All part of the plan ...

[@cfromnowhere]

This sounded like a conspiracy theory and I searched it in doubt, and damned it is real! It's called Machine Identification Code. There's a Wikipedia article about it.

[@oxybrightdark8765]

is this why my printer won't print in black and white without colour ink?

[@MattsAwesomeStuff]

@@oxybrightdark8765 that's probably as much marketing as anything, but, perhaps.

[@neondemon5137]

All the smart serial killers use Kinko's.

[@mfsperring]

Im glad you did this I've had questions for awhile. My concerns about privacy is more what governments and businesses can do with that information. The life or health insurance mentioned is one example but history has shown us that technology can be used in oppressive ways. Think deciding on who can get an education or if someone is likely to be a criminal. Scary stuff. The other questions I have is about the technique they use to get DNA from crime scenes. I've heard terms like partial DNA or reconstructed DNA and can't quite get my head around them. Maybe that could be a future video. Thanks for another well done video.

[@PloutosPlays]

"We don't work with law enforcement" Literally 5 minutes later, "We'll only work with law enforcement IF". No thanks..

[@besmart]

CSI: GATTACA

[@Treppe85]

I was looking for someone else to have noticed that.

[@nicholaskarig952]

@@ramchandravarshney4149 there is a movie called GATTACA that is based on a world where your socio-economic status in society is based on your genetics

[@lystic9392]

@@ramchandravarshney4149 GATTACA is a movie that explores... authoritarianism based on genetics.

[@PierreAugusteLambelet]

Wow, you just made me understand GATTACA, I'm so dumb...

[@Zantam70]

4head

[@DoorThief]

Title yesterday: "your DNA is already in a database" *Sees title today* I'm glad I watched the other video where you test out different titles and thumbnails to see which is more effective

[@SomeRandomDevOpsGuy]

This is the 3rd or 4th name change. I don't think this video is doing as well as he wanted.

[@natalie5947]

I definitely agree with Derek's assertion that he is "bad at making video titles". I liked today's title and thumbnail and clicked it, but I skipped it yesterday. I think overall it's a net benefit since he does, in fact, create valuable content that's worth watching.

[@haraldessert]

My new fun time activity is to wait and open the video only in a title/thumbnail I want Derek to think is more "effective".

[@teakettle7021]

Thought i was crazy for a minute

[@nathanberrigan9839]

It's trippy, though, when you start watching it with one title, have to pause, then come back a few hours later and the name is different.

[@mersontony]

This is one of my top favorite videos of yours. It was incredibly interesting from beginning to end.... I feel the good that cones out of this so called new tool for law inforecment EXTREMELY out wieghs the bad

[@meclazine]

One of the best genetic genealogy videos in terms of a scientific explanation.

[@Junon15]

As a Doctor doing residency training in genetics, the questions about consent for when a family member gets tested for disease risk, and how safe we are from discrimination in health insurance and healthcare are some of the questions that keep me up at night. Thanks for putting together such an incredible video on three topic!

[@emko333]

it really shouldn't, is this a American thing? no government refuses healthcare

[@eliteempireproductions4320]

My DNA is most definitely in a data base how do you trace it back to Africa

[@michelleyb.9709]

@@eliteempireproductions4320 why stop there? DNA should be able to trace human evolution back to our emergence from the ocean

[@acctsys]

Free market and law enforcement on privacy and fraud can keep it together. My thinking goes there are a lot of things to help yourself be healthy. If you do those, it should help you financially as well. If others waste their health, let them bear their burden. Charity is the reasonable plug to the gap.

[@guminb6216]

@@acctsys You may take care of yourself but there are also genetic predispositions. No all is up to your control...

[@OXXOI77777]

The guy who was talking about how health insurance companies will try take advantage of DNA profiling is on-point

[@ze_rubenator]

That only applies in the USA, though.

[@jmojma]

@@ze_rubenator Yes, in India only about 40 percent are medically insured...and they are not really worth it and don't cover much of the expenses.

[@piyh3962]

We say this is privacy vs murderers, but it includes all future application of DNA that are currently unimaginable today. Imagine I get all movie actors to sign away streaming rights in 1999. I'd be stealing billions from them. We're signing away our biometrics for eternity.

[@notname4414]

And that, is just one example of many other uses this database could provide.

[@jmojma]

@@notname4414 what is the other example?

[@user-xp8bq2sf2b]

8:34 The playing cards example was amazing. Thanks for that.

[@_Longwinded]

One of the best medical science video I’ve ever seen in the world of YT.

[@mouwersor]

Something nobody seems to mention: Giving the government more control is only desirable assuming the government will always act in your best interest. It doesn't, that would be absurd and ahistorical.

[@yuridhjeeyn9034]

copied from another comment up above: (by Parker Barnes) "Trust the police with your DNA!" "The Golden State Killer was a cop btw..."

[@Serjo777]

@King Pistachion And of course I can just leave my DNA at home or just break it and throw it in the trash like my phone...

[@petterjy5047]

@King Pistachion thats different in so many ways.

[@satellitecannon9463]

@King Pistachion It's the genetic information the main concern

[@karl7428]

also, it goes beyond just your local law inforcement/government. if the govt. has your data, you may as well assume its publicly available to foreign governments, hackers, criminals, multinational businesses ect. leaks happen all the time with personal data

[@ravingsofa...6]

We’ve already seen this exact story a million times, a technology/law is promised to be used in strict and certain ways but slowly gets expanded out over time.

[@jackfrost-lr3tq]

Just this once we promise. Oh damn that was really useful. Maybe once more wouldn't hurt. DNA databases are a gateway drug.

[@ericgulseth74]

Like Apple scanning users phones for CP. Easy to get behind as the initial reasons is highly altruistic, but it becomes a slippery slope.

[@immabeabitinactiveonthisac6700]

No but this time it’s actually dif- hey we could use this to invade privacy and use terrorsim as an excuse

[@MadMaxMovieReactions]

Bro this genetic explaining stuff is so interesting ty fr

[@cary_domiii]

That deck of cards is SO INTUITIVE!! I'm so jealous that I did not thought of that before...

[@adityapathak5761]

I don't like how its being implicitly implied that caring your privacy would mean opposing public safety, this is dangerously close to institutional gaslighting

[@zane990]

I mean, it's true though. If a government knows everything about its populace, it can effectively create a crime-free society. That's not necessarily a good thing - dystopian, even - but it's true.

[@leonardo9259]

@@zane990 *effectively create a society where only their crimes are hidden

[@uvbe]

its not close, it is

[@leonardo9259]

@@neyneynanamo2071 no lmao it's called the first world, not exclusively cOmmUniSm

[@rainbowevil]

@@neyneynanamo2071 everything I don’t like is communism, right? So dumb. It’s actually totalitarianism - left or right.

[@hunted4blood]

God damn this increasingly common attitude that individual rights are something to be balanced against the public good is so terrifying. Like if you deliberately conceptualize individual rights and the public good as being in opposition to each other then individual rights are gonna lose 100% of the time. In reality protecting individual rights IS the public good and it's really insidious how many people in positions of power are talking like this these days.

[@Datdus92]

It's terrifying and it won't end well for a lot of people.

[@skillswiper]

@@Datdus92 what right is that exactly?

[@legalfictionnaturalfact3969]

Jesus, thank you for saying this. What's good for one person is generally good for anyone and everyone. For a group to do well, the individuals and I must do well, because individuals is what a group is made up of. I can't believe the lack of logic in this greater good rhetoric. I can't believe how many people are stupid enough to think socialism is a good idea, relatedly. They just believe a bag of conflicting ideas and hope they can stand behind their rulers and push hard enough to attain some more mob rule power for themselves. Just like the Soviets. No one who talks about breaking eggs actually thinks he'll be the one swinging the hammer. They think they'll be the ones making the decisions for others. And yo, I don't see any omelette yet. Never have.

[@pragmaticparadox5981]

It won't end well.

[@Specoups]

I realized, as a French living under the Vaccination Pass, that most people in the western cultures right now are extremely docile up to the point that they will naturally reject the very founding civil liberties and duties principles that were enforced into them at school and were barely acquired through blood and centuries, just because some privately owned medias told them to do so during several months. Said medias doing this without even having to deliver some semblance of proper justification. You cannot understand how the minority that we represent in France feels right now. All of my friends got vaccinated, most of them "just because it seems right", others because "they wanna go to the restaurant and theaters". They fail to understand that getting vaccinated is not a decision you make because some random on the television said it "was right to do so", because the government called to it, or because you won't have access to your favorite distraction... ... It's a decision you have to make for medical reasons, and in that regard you have to inform yourself to understand if the shot is indeed beneficial to you, or if it serves no purpose. But they are too lazy to think about this, they are too lazy to ask questions and they just go on having their privately owned, patent-ridden, arguably experimental, very probably not useful to healthy younger people, and maybe even not altruistic (meaning not preventing further contaminations enough) vaccine shot, just to get their idiotic passport and meagre consumerism rights back. They don't see how protests have been crushed during the last three years. They fail to see how our public services are organizing their own downfall to serve private interests with, paradoxically, our high tax rates. They fail to see that each year, should it be to fight against "terrorism", "insecurity", or any public issue that is blown out of proportion, our rights are purely and simply ignored, if even erased. We are so small compared to the general indifference, it's obscene, it's heart breaking, it's nauseating.

[@michellebwilson2610]

Great animation on the diagrams. Kudos.

[@CoffeeKnife]

If anyone here is interested in the stuff about DNA possibly being used to discrimate, I strongly suggest watching the movie Gattaca because that idea is a core part of it's premise and it is an extremely inspiring story as well.

[@mackblack5153]

Derek is a genius for including that last bit about DuckDuckGo. It was very subtle of him to not blatantly point out the irony, but bold enough for the audience to understand exactly why he did it. Working from within.

[@tobiramasenju6290]

Wait I don't get it?

[@gyftedwon3209]

@@tobiramasenju6290 Duck Duck Go as a search Engine is designed to stop companies from viewing and tracking data as much, since on things like google or bing they sell private data for business. The irony was that she was using a search engine based on privacy right after advocating that you should put everything about your biological makeup into a database.

[@memyselfandi6364]

She said she was paranoid at the beginning

[@rutgerottens6064]

@@tobiramasenju6290 0

[@USPInx]

I think the scientist caught that right away, her expression turned a bit on the stern side when she realized what was going on^^

[@RyanShiels]

That duckduckgo at the end was just beautiful. It was like the end of a black mirror episode! All this talk of how dna is great to be used for law enforcement, and then opening up a privacy based search engine.

[@98Zai]

It might as well be a black mirror episode.

[@holdenrobbins852]

Something tells me her own DNA isn't in that database.

[@Si74l0rd]

@@holdenrobbins852 I was thinking exactly that.

[@geodarian1361]

there is some kind of strong irony that she would use ducduckgo

[@aliasrehbar9693]

Precisely lmao

[@JulieDodgshon]

Also fascinating and well done Doc Dude!

[@Redbikemaster]

"I believe in X right, but..." A dangerous phrase indeed.

[@Alhoshka]

"That scale [between murder and privacy] is way the hell like this." Yeah... until murder is no longer a requirement for DNA data mining. Did everybody just forget about Prism and Snowden!?

[@oksowhat]

in the 1000 page terms and condition there will be a small clause giving companies free hand to sell data,

[@Charlemagne_III]

Yes, they did forget about it.

[@professorfukyu744]

This video is made to reassure you that nothing can possibly go wrong. All hail the new world order!

[@Charlemagne_III]

@@professorfukyu744 I got the opposite message.

[@blest5132]

yes, yes they did, and tomorrow they will forget anything they learned today.

[@louisg.2640]

That card deck analogy explaining the presence of identical sequences of DNA in parents and offsprings might be the best analogy I've ever seen

[@PinkyMinions]

Ikr, robbing that for my genetics class

[@veritasium]

And I suck at cards so that one scene was a two hour shoot.

[@vicente8749]

It’s a great explanation of haplotypes!

[@Olon97]

It obscures some of the nuance of the coin flip in Meiosis 1, but on the upside could easily be converted into a whole classroom activity if you can find enough different colored card decks. I’m fascinated by the edge case where you can end up with a nearly 0% SNP match with a great grandparent if there is a streak of ending up with getting the other grandparents chromosomes.

[@sandhanitizer15]

@@veritasium worth the two hours lol

[@GI_Jimbo]

That guy was so concerned about privacy that he goes by the name "Dr. Doc Edge" like pff come on that cannot be your real name

[@michalsniadala1667]

21:16 noce use of different audio clips to say something

[@ThatGayWolf]

I normally don't comment, but as this is my field of expertise it feels like this discussion was very limited and one sided - I would love to see a follow up on the drawbacks to this system. I'd really appreciate an in-depth look at the concerns we have about this being a new way to discriminate, especially in the insurance world.

[@sha11e]

Everyone is acting like if health insurance companies have access to my sister's DNA, that it says a lot about my own possible health problems. But it doesn't? Like yes, it might on some specific stuff but mostly no. We have different allergies, different eyesight issues (if any), different skin issues, heart issues, different likeliness to go bald etc etc etc, so what does a health insurance know about ME if they have my sister's DNA? The only way I see DNA being a problem in that sense is if health insurance companies require YOU to give them a DNA sample in order to get insurance. But that has nothing to do with relatives (close or distant ones) having their DNA websites like ancestry and 23andme. Does it? Please explain.

[@dmelissourgos]

@@sha11e Don't think of it only in terms of siblings (although it can apply there too). How about your parents giving a DNA sample in their 20's? You are born a few years later and when you are an adult you try to get insured. Well, now insurance companies know not only what illenesses you are prone to, but also how likely it is for you to have them. We know which illnesses are genetic and which are not, with a fair amount of certainty.

[@hobojoe9717]

@@sha11e The thing is that the insurance industry cares a lot about probability too. So even if you are perfectly healthy right now, your DNA can point towards potential health issues you might have in the future. And without proper regulation, insurance companies could use that information to charge you higher rates or deny you coverage outright, in the same way they have done with pre-existing conditions.

[@Kai-K]

Right now we have legislation against charging insane prices or denying you coverage for pre-existing conditions, we just have to worry about if that legislation goes away.

[@sha11e]

@@dmelissourgos I can see that. But that requires not only that BOTH my parents have their dna somewhere, but that private companies have access to it and that there haven't been laws put in place to prohibit that kind of stuff. But yes this is the best answer so far to my question. I still think that companies will require YOU to provide your own dna sample instead of playing a guessing game based off the data they have. Like if they only have my cousins that it useless. Sibling is better. Both parents would be even better and only second to having my own dna.

[@ignemuton5500]

i'm honestly more scared about private companies lobbying governmental institutes to let access this information easily, the thought that a company like microsoft, or google or AT&T or whatever could have access to your DNA is truly terrifying.

[@sevoftalpha]

Indeed, during the video I kept looking at Derek and wondering "When is the video gonna address that?" And unfortunately that has barely been mentioned. What companies have done with personal data again and again has been already a scandal and this... oh boy, I don't know, I'd say that 'truly terrifying' sums it nicely

[@maskettaman1488]

That's nonsense! Now please enable fingerprint scanning and facial recognition on your phone and laptop. Thanks

[@Lyf4rMusic]

@@maskettaman1488 haha they'll give ALL the access to their personal identity info in the name of 'High-tech security' who claim they 'don't store such info on their clouds', but the reality hits like a brick with so many leaks !

[@sevoftalpha]

@@maskettaman1488 Hehe, I mean, yeah, indeed. I'm sure in many cases people seem to use two measures and hold contrasting views without paying attention to it. That's not always true, nor does that make some worries less valid, I think.

[@Grizabeebles]

What has me concerned is vigilantes uploading other people's raw data without consent and parents uploading their childrens' DNA profiles. Once its out there, you can't get it back.

[@cedwardgalli]

I was born and raised in Citrus Heights. Still live there. It’s crazy to know he was living here for so long. My mother was a teenager when he was commenting his crimes in the Rancho area. Growing up, we never left windows open, we always locked our doors and windows all because this guy. My mom always knew he was still out there and never caught. Crazy to know he lived so close for a lot of that time

[@masudsaleh5155]

Lmao 🤣 🤣 Windows 🪟 in the western houses don't have metals protection

[@cedwardgalli]

That’s true. We didn’t have any kind of protection on the windows. Just a mesh screen

[@sergiocervantes9870]

This is such a delicate subject mate. I guess we have to hope for the best. We are giving up our privacy by using social media, ai don't see why not give it up for something that can do some good to someone else.

[@isfiyiywafibc6qaiiiiiiiiii570]

Saying solving murders trumps your privacy because your privacy is less valuable than life is a weak argument. Your privacy could be as valuable as your life in the right/wrong hands.

[@JasperPeters]

Yes in the wrong hands if you are allowed to live could be determined by it. I really disliked how little it was touched upon. Seeing most of the comments here I don't think it really changed many minds, and I see mostly comments about how scary this is. But still the video did not do a good job of bringing across the danger this technology creates.

[@collin4555]

It also kind of relies on the premise that catching murderers saves lives. For a serial killer, sure, but does that apply to most homicides?

[@0sac]

Despite GEDmatch's opt-in policy, in fall 2019, it was served with a warrant by law-enforcement in Florida, demanding access to all of its DNA profiles, including those of the vast majority of users who had not opted in to allow law enforcement access (at that time, approximately 185,000 of 1.3 million users had opted in).[94] GEDmatch complied with this warrant. From Wikipedia

[@wnsjimbo2863]

Florida did something good , funny

[@cowboyflipflopped]

If you got a warrant, I guess you're gonna come in.

[@KostyaT]

wow, i did not know that. i had my data on it but did not opt-in when they changed the terms.

[@sergheiadrian]

And that is exactly why I am reluctant to take a 23andme or ancestry DNA test.

[@dandutton7077]

Yup! No privacy

[@avagreen9795]

Amazing doco, thanks heaps.

[@Streetlight37]

You can really tell how excited she is and how much she loves her job

[@Desertneo]

Not sure why, but letting you know that what lured me to this video was the name change. Not because of the actual name (the previous one was also good), but because I remembered your other videos about video names :D

[@phoenixfoster-smith8585]

same lol

[@tejasas7046]

I guess previous name was 'Your DNA is a database or storage' something like that

[@cumanhiburanML]

And the thumbnail too

[@RealCoolGuy]

The previous name drew me... I probably would not have clicked on this title

[@jcrjr383]

Same

[@MooreDoing]

The title of this video has changed 4 times. He's definitely putting into practice the tactics outlined in a previous video on the subject. Seems to be working. The view count continues to increase.

[@78tag]

You can only hope that with the continued viewing, more and more people will get Veritas's unintended message. The propaganda put forward in this report is an insult to humanity at this point.

[@user-mj7qw6xo1u]

@Kadir Garip look at the cuts

[@user-mj7qw6xo1u]

Well it’s not gonna decrease…

[@Machiflores]

The count gets larger, but is the changing names whats drives it? or is another mechanism? Its kind of hard If you switch names, to see if one name is more interesting. Maybe the best is to have the same video with all the names published at start.

[@mnnptl]

Changed it again now

[@McBeth62]

I noticed you didn't mention the Parabon Company and it's work and contributions. Any reason why?

[@rakhisorcar5833]

Thank you for making such an informative and mindful video!

[@peterpike]

The problem with technology that strips away privacy has never been about catching criminals. No one is concerned that murderers get captured because of it. The problem is that that's NEVER the end result of what it's used for, merely the excuse given to justify the eventual overreach. And once given up, it's impossible to get back.

[@cheesecakedoublepeanutbutt6511]

People in power using safety as an excuse to invade people's privacy more and more, and most people are like "oh yeah, get the bad dudes, sounds good." and did not think deeper into what all those is about--it's always about control and power. Sure more criminal can be caught this way, but at the same time it is just laughable to believe such system will not be abused. Sure Apple will scan your phone for child abuse photos, but it'll never try to figure out your preferences on products and sell your data to Ad agencies, and/or try to figure out your political opinions and give that info to FBI. --it sounds ridiculous when I say it out loud, but unfortunately most people won't give a second thought on that otherwise.

[@piratatazmania]

I sort of agree with your point, but also the reality is that people have used the exact same arguments against seatbelts! And in today's case, against masks and vaccines.

[@savagebuck]

Just imagine how a totalitarian state could use these against dissidents.

[@chaosjoerg9811]

@@piratatazmania You're conflating very different scenarios. Privacy protection is about others not being able to harass, blackmail or even murder you through the information they gained because it was available to them. More specifically corrupt cops and politicians don't get even more power. It is not about freedom of choice to do whatever you want. In the EU there is a debate going on to not view personal information like a personal posession but rather to treat it legally more like an assault on the body. The argument for the seat belt is mostly self protection, which is a very poor argument. But it is still weaker than the argument for protection of privacy. For vaccination is argued with herd immunity. That is a strong argument. Because the vaccination makes you sick, its justification to force it also needs to be strong. All these three topics follow completely different argumentative angles and have very different justifications.

[@monhi64]

Give me one example of lost privacy that isn’t either to sell you something, advance research or for a crime. Why are y’all so suspect, nothing is going to change we lost privacy 40 years ago and that is a drop in the metaphorical ocean of our current problems today. I’ll never understand why people obsess about that bring up the fictional 1984 while ignoring literally everything else.

[@holocene2164]

I think everyone would agree that using such information to catch predators is a good thing. And in a perfect world, I'm sure it could work without abuse. However, we all know that this data will be misused at some point, either by insurance companies, law enforcement or the government. So considering that it puts the rights and freedom of millions of individuals at risk, I think it needs to be used with a lot of caution.

[@SamuelFilipesf]

Yeah, that's a very good point! Society and governments should come together and make strong policies about this. If they want to proceed in collecting DNA data then there should be bullet-proof fail-safe mechanisms to guarantee that this data can't be misused in the future - I mean what is there to guarantee that a future racist dictator cannot get hold of this data and misuse it? I don't know if this would solve the problem, but perhaps data of this nature should not be allowed to be saved by independent companies, nor even by individual governments. Rather it should be safeguarded by a multi-country organization (like United Nations?), who should create safeguards to guarantee that no one, nor any country could misuse it, and guarantee that all data would be destroyed in case the organisation falls or changes its policies.

[@chelelee6321]

I agree completely.

[@ghjgggtyf]

totally agree that power tends to get abused without some airtight laws and policies to protect people

[@crabjockey]

or destroyed.

[@HotMonkeyDik]

It should not be used like this because the potentional harm outweighs the potential good.

[@martingo2680]

There's a ton of videos on KZbin of how people are getting caught now throughout the process of genealogy. It's crazy!..

[@alexlzomrt]

This video highlighted the need for a collab with louis rossman

[@Xitoshi]

In this video: "Trust the Police with your DNA" Also in this video: "Former Police Officer was a serial killer"

[@fasihmuhammadkhan5248]

Joseph James was a good guy until he wasnt

[@iceybrice]

These aren't just police officers finding these killers. This is possible for literally anyone to use. We used this to find my moms biological parents. It's available to everyone.

[@jesperengelbredt]

Make it mandatory for all law enforcement personel to be registered with their DNA. That should cut down dramatically the number of criminal police officers.

[@78tag]

Not many people understood the significance of that little tidbit.

[@78tag]

@@iceybrice You have no idea what a simple little convenience like that has done to the whole world , do you?

[@rubberonasphalt]

The fact that the DNA lady was paranoid enough to make her search habits hidden with Duck Duck Go, says a lot about where her head is at, knowing what she knows

[@mikecampbell8777]

Sadly though, she's using it in Chrome. So.... Is it really tracking her less?

[@thelastxgamer]

​@@mikecampbell8777 It's probably a company computer, so that might come with limitations on what you can download and run. Even then, it *is* tracking you a bit less, I think.

[@TheSteveSteele]

Unfortunately Chrome installs Agents that constantly send out usage, location, software and hardware data along with any Cookies that are installed and it’s a persistent app that’s sneaky for the average person to remove, (last time I checked). Your search engine is a big part of your fingerprint, no doubt, but only a part of the overall picture. It’s ironic that a data collecting agency is using software that is itself a data collector. However, (or hopefully) this person’s computer probably isn’t a data critical workstation, and hopefully, again, the sensitive workstations are isolated on a protected network, etc… Maybe there’s a reason she’s using Chrome. She seems aware of the liability though.

[@Alex-bw6yd]

Yeah, that got a chuckle and a sigh out of me.

[@peanut3438]

But is Duck Duck Go open source or proprietary? If it’s proprietary then it’s not trustworthy

[@DanRichter]

The amount of work that goes into these videos... the calendar behind the woman at 18:40 says October 2019, yet the video wasn't uploaded until nearly two years later.

[@masudsaleh5155]

Yes

[@valeriewarkins3704]

Theres also a use case for large-scale genomic analysis to study diseases. Having a public database with some basic demographic data attached could be really huge for public health and safety.

[@Asd-tk2if]

Not for safety. Most likely not for health either.

[@GryphonBrokewing]

"Gattaca" is a nice reference when it comes to these sorts of things. Liked that thumbnail. Yes, certainly a powerful tool for catching criminals. Also powerful for abuse.

[@AdumbroDeus]

And the killer they talk about was an officer.

[@scienceinc.9453]

Exactly ;)

[@hwykng82]

we watched that in my science class at school back in the 90s

[@liptoncheetos]

@@hwykng82 we watched it in my high school bio class in 2018.

[@dhoyda]

If a person (or group) possesses the level of understanding necessary as well as the level of general intelligence needed to "abuse" this data for something malicious, then they probably can do many other terrible things without needing DNA to accomplish their goal.

[@Simrasil_]

I'm not a big fan of private organizations having a catalog of personal information that they can use to identify and track people without their consent. The anecdotal success of "hey we caught this one really bad guy" does not justify the violation of privacy of literally everyone else imo..

[@themonsterunderyourbed9408]

You are 100% correct.

[@newfiejiggs]

@King Pistachion doesn't mean we should just give up the rest of our privacy. I can turn off my phone, i cant change my DNA

[@malbacato91]

@@newfiejiggs I can turn off my phone, and I can jump of a cliff. neither of them I want to, but on different scales

[@koho]

It's not your personal information. You share it with relatives, and you don't control what they do. That genetic interconnectedness is what makes it a tricky privacy issue.

[@oksowhat]

what are you saying, they will have like a thousand page terms and condition, and in one like they will put that they are free to sell your dna data to advertisers, privacy is a myth my friend, moreover i belive at one point there will be enough data that the agency will only contact the criminal not the person whose dna was matched since they can make the family tree without contacting that guy, so you will never know so no worries

[@user-mt2uj8xl2u]

What about aflon enforcement can ask you if you would allow them to use your information to try to match something or other what about getting personal authorization?

[@ZMacZ]

They can add the start and ending non-same sequence into the database as well. That would make each repeat even more unique, but also provide better part DNA distinction. So for each repeat, they'd add the one before the repeat and the one ending the repeats string. Then with even partial DNA a search may come up correct.

[@ZMacZ]

The Verogen method can also lead to sibling or parential or even familial indirect identification. It makes sense that now that storage is like multi petabyte at low cost, that storing more detailed DNA patterns is also an option. Storing 10 million frames on each DNA pattern would make the whole of the nation recordable for a mere less than 1024 terabytes, or 1 peta, with enough leftover for 150 million more Americans. 128 x 8 TB drives spread over 16 small servers, needing less than 2m3 physical space, and through the spread allow for fast searches. Once laboratorial splitting of DNA goes out of the loop, and where instead the DNA is being read whole, with a fast chip descerning which is relevant, from sample to DNA search would need less than 5 minutes, with the search itself included.

[@Kaepsele337]

I would have liked more discussion about potential abuse of this system.

[@exiledkenkaneki701]

because people care more about the negatives instead of actual benefits in gene Therapy for example, negative fckfaces choose a complete different path

[@jaystarr6571]

Or incorrect results.

[@bobshenix]

Lol don't expect that from this guy.

[@exiledkenkaneki701]

@@jaystarr6571 not an issue because the test can be repeated as everything with science untill a conclusive answer is obtained, can be fixed by a policy saying testing needs to be done on sensitive matter this mant times

[@uvbe]

it would go against the narrative this video is heavily pushing

[@sam-rs8wg]

You ignored such a critical phrase, "once its out there, its out there forever". I trust that one company, with my data, today, for now. What if they are hacked? Sold? Change in policy? Why did you not interview opposing viewpoints? This felt critically onesided, with practically zero emphasis on the dangers.

[@Pastormikeboyle]

He doesn't see the other side as having a meaningful point.

[@eliasthienpont6330]

Privacy does not exist, ergo your point is moot.

[@Pastormikeboyle]

@@eliasthienpont6330 except it does exist. And at the same time it is being willingly surrendered. In a sense, it is like a population who without any law freely chooses to surrender all their weapons.

[@josiahroberts4184]

100%. In an oppressive regime this is devastating to dissidents. And anyone who says, "it can't happen here" is dead wrong.

[@superneenjaa718]

His videos are always one sided.

[@rrr92462]

Great video! Super interesting.

[@jamesjelly69]

Anyone watching after the 23andme data breach

[@24pavlo]

This is scary. And the way they talk about removing privacy for a better good without hesitation is crazy.

[@WillFast140]

That was those two law enforcement guys that said that. Of COURSE they'd think like that.

[@thepooaprinciple5144]

This is only the beginning. Yall have no idea whats coming...and even if the evidence and picture was painted right before your eyes....you would just choose to walk away. Its our fault because most people on this planet are content with a normal life, being provided just a few pieces of the puzzle and thinking they have the whole picture.

[@lucasqualls5086]

Your people are moronic. The issue isn’t the breach of privacy. It’s the laws and system that such information could abuse. For instance, if you have a system of healthcare where you can be discriminated on by your future health problems, the access to that private information of future health problems isn’t the issue. In fact that’s an amazing stride, as then doctors can help try and prevent things YEARS in advance. The issue is a system that prioritizes profits over the health of citizens. Equally with crime. If non-violent crimes weren’t punishable, but rather only rehabilitatable, then the only people who would fear the breach of privacy would be violent offenders. Once again, it’s not the breach of privacy that’s scary, but a system which can throw you in prison and destroy your life for a non-violent offense. Equally you could argue ‘but what about suppressing freedom of speech’. First of all, you don’t leave dna online, so it’s irrelevant to this specific topic, but regarding that privacy breach, you honestly think the government is gonna go out of its way to suppress you because you specifically are just so important? No, that’s doesn’t happen. Suppressing speech never creates a stable society. The Soviet Union? China? Cold War USA? The suppression of speech always created mass social unrest. Most developed nations realize that, and prefer to maintain control via the illusion of freedom. Not an iron fist.

[@koho]

Only 40 years of experience.

[@thepooaprinciple5144]

@@lucasqualls5086 I agree, and the only thing I would Add to this list of actual dangers is my biggest fear of all. That the illusion of freedom is bought by every soul that participates in societies of the future, for if that happens (like it is now), then only a few will have reality, while the rest possess the illusion, and no way of realizing it.

[@parkerbarnes7726]

"Trust the police with your DNA!" "The Golden State Killer was a cop btw..."

[@angelicagomez3082]

Haha good one

[@sorinstroe6156]

maybe cops shouldn't have that much privacy that they can do all that murder and rape

[@pvic6959]

that would explain how he knew how to stay hidden for so long. he knew what the cops looked for and could prepare for it. thats scary

[@LovesGrilling]

Oof, that's a sick burn.

[@LightSourceTemple]

If I wanted to kill people I'd definitely become a cop

[@RFGSwiss]

that ending with the searchengine takes the cake!

[@TheBnzr]

I taught forensic science and during our unit on DNA evidence, I gave my students this question: Do you think we should have genetic privacy? We had a class discussion (called Socratic Seminar) at the end to wrestle with this question. Many of them hit on exactly the issue of privacy vs public safety.