Vestel power supply board NON interchangeability explained using a 17IPS12.

[@andybonneau9209]

It's crazy to have identical part numbers for two different boards and applications.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

I think there is something like 40 different variants of this board .

[@chriswatson2407]

Not really. The same identical board provides many output variations.

[@sw6188]

Again I take my hat off to you Michael. When I gave up servicing CRT sets just over 20 years ago I decided not to get into doing flat panel ones, and when I see this sort of thing I think I made the right decision! At least when you ordered a BG1895 tripler, it worked in ANY set that required one.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

Wait till you see the repair video on the faulty board !

[@marksntl7632]

Another most excellent video Michael! Many thanks for sharing! I'll remember this, for the next time someone brings their Vestel manufactured set in to work for me to look at 😀👍

[@michaeldranfield7140]

one board populated with different components reduces production cost , a technique vestel have been using for many years

[@kinklesstetrode]

Well said. Not a lot of people know this. Had a client in some time ago who complained his set had a darker image after a repair. Vestel are great at this. There are several other boards with revision numbers that you have to pay attention to. Sometimes you have to increase the drive to the grid of the PL36.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

got plans to build a push pull audio amp with a pair of PL36 s but wont be building anymore projects till the dark nights come .

[@Bristoll170]

You have just saved many of us who wouldn't have thought of the finer detail. Great stuff as always Michael. Many thanks for the heads up 👍. Cheers Pete', New Zealand.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

no problem , another video coming soon , I have now found the fault on the power supply in the video .

[@CuakCuak123]

Sometimes also changes the output inductor. For example, 17IPS62 is used since years ago for 32" TV sets, but older displays have 11 LED per string while newer ones have only 6 LED per string. Therefore, in order to optimize the output converter for a higher current-lower voltage output, the inductor changes. The same applies for 17IPS72 used from 43" to 65".

[@michaeldranfield7140]

this is correct , some earlier boards did use different components

[@OaklynHall]

Thank you for sharing this interesting video. It's amazing that both boards could have the same part number yet two resistors are different! Would it not make more sense to have a different part number for each board?

[@JohnSmith-pq7vn]

Yes of course it would, but that would mean employing some common sense, and we all know that that's the least common thing about.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

I think there is something like 40 different variants of this board, what you have to remember though vestel is a budget manufacture so everything is done as cheap as possible to save on production costs , these psu boards are old technology and have remained pretty much unchanged for 10 years or so

[@JohnSmith-pq7vn]

@@michaeldranfield7140 Absolutely, but it took me about 2 seconds to come up with the idea of just adding an extra digit to the end of the part number printed on the board. No extra cost involved, and surely would save them time and money to be able to supply the correct part for the correct as TV as easily as possible. How else do they know themselves? If a pcb has the same part no as another, and looks identical, it is only fair to assume it is the same? And if it is not fully interchangeable because it has been slightly modified for another model, then that is just begging for something to go wrong, and the fault would be entirely pointed at Vestel. I suspect Vestel probably just plan for you to fit the same board in any set and who cares if the service life of your TV is negatively affected anyway.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

@@JohnSmith-pq7vn there is a part number on the board but its hard to see and a QR code which I assume can be scanned at the factory but the reality is vestel don't want sets to be repaired , they want to sell a new one , a few years ago the vestel promotional video reported they make 45,000 TV sets a day so you can see why there business model just works on selling a new set .

[@robertneill3057]

Adding another suffix number more or less akin to the screen size. Here again there are differences according to the measurement units used, though metric in centimeters is the more universal worldwide.

[@Magor108]

Well done Michael. Came to your video agsin today ;)

[@nethoncho]

Awesome advice. Thanks for sharing your videos.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

No problem , many thanks for watching .

[@kahlid-ataya]

thanks for sharing this extremely important info just right now I learned this from you

[@michaeldranfield7140]

no problem at all, vestel have been doing this for years , just using one board and populating it with slightly different components .

[@linusgk5042]

I've been searching to a 17ips72 for my TV for over a year. From what I've heard you can go by the "23 number" by the barcode and it should be a perfect match. But countless hours and push notifications from various sites I haven't found an exact match. So I bought one from same manufacturer, size and specs going over every single smd to measure the value. So far I have an extra mosfet, misplaced jumpers and some wrong resistors... Hopefully I will succeed 😂

[@michaeldranfield7140]

I can have a look if you send me the part number on the board .

[@linusgk5042]

@@michaeldranfield7140 thank but I've promised myself not to spend any more money on it, only my time. I got it to work for a cupple hours. So I went to put the back plastic on and the backlight started flickering after an hour fully assembled.

[@allunread1358]

Michael, thank you for another excellent video. I have missed something as I can't get 380mA and 405mA using the resistor values you have seen from the formula in the MP3394 and MP3394S datasheets. They seem to have made a few versions of the MP3394, so perhaps the one in the Vestel TV's is a special part.

[@andrewsawesome]

Unless I'm missing something, you could just change the resistors for the current you want in accordance with the MP3394 datasheet, correct? Still annoying that they have the same model number, but nice to know that you can fix the problem if you get a circuit board with the wrong components for your TV.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

of course, you could just use a different board and swap the resistors from your old board .

[@linusgk5042]

A warning to this approach. I'm working on a 17ips72. Couldn't find exact match so got one from same manufacturer, size and specs. So far I have many jumpers, resistors and even an extra mosfet. I'm hoping I can still get it working tho.

[@paparoysworkshop]

I would have never expected that.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

Its very common, no two boards are the same , they just look the same if you dont look hard enough !

[@MrReeceyburger123]

This has always done my head in, especially with the mainboard being set up for each panel 😭😭😭

[@michaeldranfield7140]

even harder with the main board as the difference may only be the software within a SPI chip .

[@wisher21uk]

Totally agree Reece right royal pain in the backside

[@wisher21uk]

@@michaeldranfield7140 correct Michael, we’ve all had fun with them haven’t we lol

[@MrReeceyburger123]

@@michaeldranfield7140 there’s different voltage regulators and things in different places I have noticed on some

[@FJL4215]

Note that the 17IPS62 number is on the silkscreen print on the PCB so this would be made in the step when the bare PCB is made. So this is likely the part number of the bare PCB. The Printed Circuit Board Assembly (with components mounted) likely has another part number - but maybe this isn't put on anywhere to save cost? It needs to be put on later than the silkscreen step - either with laser, inkjet or as a label. What is in the black area with the QR code? Could the PCBA part number be in there?

[@michaeldranfield7140]

the QR code I would imagine does carry the part number but if you look under the QR code there is a board reference number but its poorly printed , very small and in black ink , hard to see, earlier sets had a white label attatched but it would seem to be no more to save on cost .

[@FJL4215]

Thank you for your reply and sharing a lot of interesting videos! I love the CRTs but not many chances to work on this tech nowadays. A friend has a Williams Defender arcade cabinet which the monitor failed on though. Shorted S-cap that took out the horizontal output transistor and voltage regulator if I remember correctly...

[@alunroberts1439]

I did find this out the hard way. Thanks for puting this in english

[@michaeldranfield7140]

everyone makes mistakes, you will know now for the next time .

[@alunroberts1439]

@@michaeldranfield7140 Am from the days of the CRT TVs were we did not just pull the PCB we had to fix it. V

[@michaeldranfield7140]

@@alunroberts1439 I did fix the pcb to component level , this will be coming soon in another video and its interesting .

[@Roundymooney]

Thanks as always Michael!

[@michaeldranfield7140]

No problem Roundy , many thanks for watching .

[@adamdavies163]

Blimey, that's extremely well spotted. Most would assume they are the same.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

That was the point of the video , there's something like 40 variants of this board , most looking the same on the outside .

[@adamdavies163]

@@michaeldranfield7140 See, what was wrong with the old ways? 🤣A simple POT adjustment would suffice and use the same board for many models. Hard to believe that it is cheaper to mass produce SOT (Select -on Test) variants of the same board.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

@@adamdavies163 its all about cost , a pot would cost more than a couple of SMD resistors , it might only be pennies but when you think a few years ago vestel were making 45,000 TV sets a day it makes a huge difference to cost , I cant even imagine how many sets vestel produce today .

[@adamdavies163]

@@michaeldranfield7140 Yes true, imagine adjusting the 'pot' on 45000 sets a day :-)

[@andygozzo72]

thats bad of them using same part number for things with different specs.! its the opposite to what was said for many crt sets, which was dont order parts by model no. of set but use the exact part number of the item inside, as some production runs may be different and use different ones!

[@michaeldranfield7140]

one board fits all is something vestel have been doing for years to minimise production costs , main boards are worse as you cant see the difference as its usually just the software contained in a SPI chip, one set I came across could be fitted with 6 different main boards depending one the LCD screen fitted.

[@whitesapphire5865]

I can just imagine it now "Hey, dad, that picture in'arf bright wi' this new board in there. I reckon that old 'un must o' been 'goin' for a while"!! Or, "This picture in'arf crap wi' this new board in there. I reckon they dun't meck'em like they used to"!! So really, if you have the tools to change those SMD resistors, you can re-rig the boards, but what a trap for the unwary?!

[@michaeldranfield7140]

correct , and the downside is a wrong board may appear to work ok but you shorten the life of the LED s . A bit like fitting a new video head without checking the back tension .

[@andycristea]

Great tip! Thanks for sharing, sir!

[@michaeldranfield7140]

No problem , many thanks for watching .

[@3rdpartyU5er]

Hi Michael! Could you be able to tell that what is the model of the isolation transformer that is in the middle of the board? Much thanks!

[@Jose-bx9er]

hi. thanks for your video i was going very crazy. i have a hitachi 40HE4001 using this power supply. Sometimes it loses the backlight but the leds seem to be ok. I bought another vestel 17ips12 from another tv hitachi 40HE4001, same tv model, but it doesn't turn on. it doesn't even show the red led. The board received has another different numbering next to the QR code as you very well explained here. Is there no other way to know which one will work on my tv? sticker label reference number? i can do a little soldering but dont know about electronics. do you know if there is any way i can fix my tv please? or find the correct one for me? would be easyer than fix my own board? whats your opinion please? thanks a lot

[@michaeldranfield7140]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZa3eqSVm5qUZtU Have a look at my other video, this is more likely to be your problem than the psu .

[@matthewgriffin4761]

Excellent advise, as always.

[@ahmeddahmani2662]

Thank you

[@michaeldranfield7140]

No problem at all, many thanks for watching .

[@Knaeckebrotsaege]

This nonsense is why i just gave up trying to find parts for a 48 inch "Telefunken" LCD TV (L48F249N3C-3D) that had the PSU fail and potentially took out the main board as well. I thought it would be easy to find spare boards (plenty of TVs with cracked panels around), but quickly learned that even if they share the same board model number, there's a 90% chance they're incompatible anyway. Vestel does the same thing for the main controller board, same model number, entirely different plug options for the panel (pin count, pitch and amount of connectors). I then went looking for the exact same TV model with a cracked panel, and except for one dude selling a complete TV with cracked panel for almost as much as a fully functional one is worth, there was nothing to be found in a whole month, so I just gave up 🤷‍♂

[@michaeldranfield7140]

Yep, this is a problem with vestel , you need an exact match, some vestel boards are not too expensive to buy brand new though.

[@jumboegg5845]

Does the backlight LED have a fixed current, or does it vary with user settings?

[@michaeldranfield7140]

No , its varied by the user setting , Backlight, for example my 32 bush , Vestel set at home min backlight setting is 83Ma and maximum is something like 380 Ma .

[@jumboegg5845]

@@michaeldranfield7140 Yes I thought most models allow you to vary the baclight one way or another. I usually have it set to soemthing like 50% to 75%, never full blast. So would that be a work around if you happen to have the wrong power supply board - dont set the backlight on full (otherwise the 380mA board may run too hot if it cant supply it, and the 405 mA board may overdrive the LED if it supplies too much)

[@tschupbach]

So, by just changing the resistors you could set the replacement power supply to properly operate in the TV in question? Great video!

[@michaeldranfield7140]

yes , if you are replicating one that's not different in size than the other , however some of the psu that drive the much larger screens may have a larger transformer fitted , more capacitors and many more differences but you will see this by a visual inspection of the top side of the board .

[@paulsanderson8804]

They don't want us ordering new boards to fix our tv's they want us to buy a new tv. Which is what every company wants .. there not going to make it easy ..

[@michaeldranfield7140]

This is true and its why the right to repair wont work , unless the price of electrical goods goes back up again .

[@jonathaneastwood2927]

@@michaeldranfield7140 been to cheap for decades, imagine if motor vehicles had gone the same way.

[@jasejj]

It makes me wonder if sloppy practices with these power supplies may explain the lack of reliability with some of these sets. They're clearly approximating specifications to suit different off-the-shelf parts on the fly, from batch to batch. But then shoddiness is the byword of modern electronics, across the board. Not even Sony is immune any more. It also makes me nervous about using something more juicy like a microwave made by Vestel or Arcelik... This kind of short-cut could kill someone if replicated there.

[@michaeldranfield7140]

I watched a promotional video about vestel a while back and the guy who owns the company described there products as been like a tailored jacket , made to the exact customers specification !

[@michaelwaite6725]

Same main board number but there's usually another label or bar code label to match if your replacing Vestel boards .

[@michaeldranfield7140]

correct, it use to be on a white label stuck to the board which most people could identified straight away but now its printed on the board itself in black writing that you can easily miss.

[@TermitesRGood1]

Just becaise it says same model number on the board you have to make sure the VER NUMBER IS THE SAME ON THE BOARD EXAMPLE Ver 1.1 =ver 1.1 and not Rev ver 1.2

[@hubertz3049]

Hi Can you share the schematic of your transistor tester? I would like to build something like this, nice design, I've been seeing a lot of fake power transistors lately and I'd like to be able to test them before assembly.

[@RobertHellier]

Surely they could have created a stick on label for PSU to match that TV voltages that would save alot of confusion.. but again it would be too simple for vestel

[@michaeldranfield7140]

yes , it use to be printed on a white label stuck to the pcb that stood out like a sore thumb , but its actually printed on the board itself in very small , black hard to see writing , I guess it saves the cost of the label .

[@lezbriddon]

and dont try to use a mainboard from a 75'' in your 58 it just sits in a coma .... (i wanted the google assistant because mine has alexa and not a fan) 17mb130s

[@Components-qu3zs]

I'm guilty!! yikes...

[@michaeldranfield7140]

I would imagine lots of people are guilty of this mistake .

[@lewiskelly14]

What awful design to use the same product numbers

[@rosewhite2135]

Agreed! You'd at least think it would make sense to add the screen size as a prefix, or suffix, to the board number.

[@jonathaneastwood2927]

Made in Turkey. How it is

[@michaeldranfield7140]

one board fits all is a technique vestel have been doing for years to cut production costs .and even when you look at the power supply design its all well tried and tested old technology , no frills here

[@jonathaneastwood2927]

@@michaeldranfield7140 in contrast to Philips over past years, if there was a weird and crazy way of doing it you could always rely on Philips.

[@rosewhite2135]

@@jonathaneastwood2927 Well, there's never been a truer word spoken (or written).