Villainpedia: Orin the Red | Baldur's Gate 3

[@Ghostcharm]

no, you can’t fix her

[@ThyFloorestFloor]

Hear me out

[@boggart2da.]

You dare stop me in getting myself a jerky mommy?

[@TürkTeksaslı]

I will Try

[@frostysolis]

Any broken hottie is a maiden in distress, I must try and fix her… or lose myself to her brokenness aswell

[@highentia07]

Don't want to, whatever's wrong is way hotter

[@dyslexicLLM]

Great video. I love her "but tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow" line. It's a basic rule of rhetoric that sets of 3 works best (Veni, vedi, vici), but she repeats herself 4 times in that line. The writers knew exactly what they were doing, because 3 sounds like poetry and 4 just sounds unhinged.

[@chipstick3856]

Is it not a reference to Macbeth? “Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow, Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time; And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.”

[@thedeathray8620]

​@@chipstick3856 Since this is fully quoted by the main villain of Saints Row IV, I could only hear it in his voice.

[@dyslexicLLM]

@@chipstick3856 I think you're right. Nice. I missed that reference.

[@Devlerbat]

Kethric: Had a tragic down fall into evil. Orin: Was breed and raised to be evil. Gortash: Basically, just a politician.

[@kirjoittajajoni]

To be fair Gortash didn't get much of a chance in stable life thanks to his parents selling him

[@digitaldevil696]

Gortash is so believable though

[@Devlerbat]

@@digitaldevil696 Well of course he is. We HAVE a politicians.

[@celestebigaignon6054]

The guy was sold to a 'warlock' (Raphael) as a kid because his parents wanted to keep their business afloat. He was kept in the prison in House of Hope. The guy barely had a chance.

[@sem4039]

Ome thing: the dark urge was not raised in the cult with orin. Durge was put with a mortal family and raised in a normal family (its implied this is what gave him skills that surpassed orin, bc he had more varied skills.) He was a happy child until his first dark urge, where he blacked out and murdered his entire adopted family at 10. We dont know how exactly he ended up at the cult, but we know that he was able to control his urges eventually, able to plan out the kills perfectly (gortash tells us this).

[@Hyullian]

I think the trope of villain that Orin fills is precisely what she offers: Being evil for the sake of being evil. She relishes in it, adores murdering in a way that's almost sensual. Not sensual towards her victims, but towards the act of killing itself. She sounds like makes love with murder, with Bhaal himself. Being groomed since she was a babe to become a blood thirsty psychopath, along with being the product of incest, tells me everything there is to know: She has no "depth" because she probably never developed enough to be complex, to hide her motives and have morality conflicts. If she was the only villain in the game, I would PROBABLY have an issue with it, but otherwise I think she brings some good diversity in the "bad guys" team.

[@thebigksmoosey]

Orin is a horrific and tragic story. The implied abuse (of all types) she suffered, the whispering of a malevolent God in her head, the issue of incest, it's just horrible. I see her almost more of a victim, than a villain. I mean she's evil as shit, but she was made that way. She never stood a chance of being ok.

[@Asterion_Mol0c]

She's still evil

[@Asterion_Mol0c]

Like a good amount of species in Tolkien

[@Asterion_Mol0c]

But it's mostly the one's created/corrupted by Morgoth

[@AryOnYT]

People overdo the "they're not evil, they are just misunderstood" trope. No, this is a videogame. Videgames need villains. They are allowed to be evil for evil's sake.

[@Goomero]

is this r tard foreal?

[@bugg6597]

Orin was not the most evil, she was the most primitive, being the spawn of Bhaal. Bhaal isn’t the most evil, if anything, he’s the most fair balanced of the dead three. Orin is simply a wild dog cut off her leash, doing all she knows. She’d have to have more sentience to her to be evil. Many moments in baldurs gate 3, Bhaal controls her. She acts more like that possessed companion from div 2 than she does as an actual Bhaal spawn

[@somerandominternetdweller]

She was the polar opposite of Durge in how to do things. Durge was a meticulous planner and an actual evil genius.

[@dumpykong]

5 hour Faerun Worldpedia when :)?

[@jakestamper1031]

Hey I know that guy

[@WilliamDHD]

49:15 - Orin is such a great character precisely because her motivation for being evil isn't complex or justified. She simply loves to inflict violence and suffering on others for it's own sake. Isn't that the most evil thing of all?

[@somerandominternetdweller]

@@WilliamDHD she is chaotic evil, when Bhaal is a neutral evil. Considering murder is part of Bhaal’s portfolio and is inherent to him. All he cares about is power and murder is one way to achieve it. That’s why Evil Durge is created to be the perfect Bhaalspawn. Who is able to meticulously and efficiently carry plans to further his father’s goal and he even faked his death after killing Tav to drop attention from him. While Orin is an impulsive psychopath, who enjoys killing for the sake of it.

[@esh_414]

Exactly. There is no underlying needs... she's just outright fucked up at her core.

[@smellycatbutts]

Meh.

[@peekychu5235]

no

[@stirfry5560]

Her motivation is for ball

[@Hermit1194]

I like how the dead 3 chosen represent the evil alignments Lawful evil - Gortash Netural evil - Ketheric Chaotic evil - Orin

[@burningisis]

See I saw Orin as lawful Evil. She seems very true to everything she does supports being evil. I saw Gortash as being chaotic evil because, he can have moments where he will not kick a puppy and might actually help someone. And Ketheric I actually saw as Chaotic good. He isnt doing what he does because he wants to see the world burn. He just wants his daughter back and will do anything to achieve that goal. And wanting your daughter back seems like a "good" alligned thing.

[@elektraeriseros]

​@burningisis i....really am curious about how you define alignment. Helping someone out doesn't mean you're chaotic. Especially when helping someone out serves you in the end. Orin is chaotic, pure and simple. She's not "true to something" she's a fanatic of a murder god. And Ketheric? Wanting your daughter back and being willing to disrupt her peaceful death are two different things. One is mournful but natural and the other is purely selfish. Alignment is a mix of motives AND actions. OP had their alignments correct. A case could be made for Kethric being the lawful evil and gortash being neutral evil, tho

[@hemanthnair1290]

That's because the Dead Three themselves represent the three kinds of evil. Bane-God of Tyranny, scheming manipulator, Lawful Evil Myrkul- Doesn't really give a fuck, death God, Neutral Evil Bhaal-full on murderhobo god, Chaotic Evil

[@MissKashira]

@@burningisis That's not how the alignments work. OP is correct, they represent chaotic, neutral and lawful evil. Lawful evil isn't always adhering to evil, it's following a set of evil rules, like slavery. Slavery can be legal, but it's also evil. Chaotic evil is doing evil because of impulses. The urges they all feel fit that. And neutral evil is when you're not following rules, or drives, like in Kethric's case he serves Myrkul out of gratitude, not because he was compelled to do so or he's required to do so by a system.

[@heliummaster6628]

i…never thought about that

[@fortheloveofexy]

imo Orin would be much more impactful as a villain if you as a player weren't pressured into confronting her so early in act 3. Act 3 as a whole has a lot of issues with pacing. Like, the fact that she infiltrates your camp the moment you get past Wyrm's Rock and kidnaps one of your companions pretty much forces you to rush in and fight at least one of the final bosses when you've just barely dipped a toe into Act 3's content. Even as a more "simple" kind of evil, she'd be much more meaningful as a villain if you didn't have to confront her until the very end of Act 3, rather than 1/3rd of the way through. Her type of villainy would work a whole lot better in the story if she was the penultimate boss before taking on the elder brain. Gortash, Ketheric and Raphael can be the more "complicated" villains. Orin's "force of nature" type villainy aligns much more with the Elder Brain's brand of inherent evil.

[@ianwhelan-miller90]

I love what they did with every character in BG3. Except Sarevok and Viconia. Viconia I bought as a kind of "okay, I could *see* it, and given the connection it doesn't sting so much," but Sarevok... Sarevok was assassinated harder than any of Bhaal's victims. He went from a proud, fearsome man who wanted to dethrone a god and take the power for himself to discount Lucian Lachance and a cartoon Shredder-esque supervillain who sits on a chair. Sarevok should have been the sacrifice on Orin's alter, a roaring, foaming-at-the-mouth, unbroken beacon of rage at the indignity of being chained to his bloodline after this long. Even at his most evil, Sarevok never cared one shit for Bhaal, only for the power it would afford *him*. Keep in mind, the first generation of Bhaalspawn were not design to be agents or successors of Bhaal, they were expendible batteries to hold his essence after he died, and be sacrificed en-masse by his priesthood to resurrect him. Them surviving at all was a mistake and due in most part to the intervention of the Harpers like Gorion,0 and one his priesthood had to pivot to try and recover from. I don't mind the new direction for the Bhaalspawn in 3, I just wish they didn't do the soft-retcon of them in the first game. Really underplays how insidious and doomed the feeling of being a Bhaalspawn is in the first game compared to the Dark Urge, which is more a gnawing realization as to just how far the rabbit hole goes.

[@MinecraftRick]

BG3 was not the assassination of Sarevok and Viconia. The assassination of Sarevok and Viconia was Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy, that godsawful 5e splatbook where Wizards of the Hasbro really went in to just straight-up fucking *ruin* Bioware's Baldur's Gate lore, because they had figured that people were more passionate about something a videogame studio wrote two decades earlier than the corporate slop they themselves had started putting out. It basically retconned every good plot point about the baddies of BG1 and 2. There's so much wrong with the writing in MBJoV that Sarevok's return in BG3 looks like dignity in comparison to everything else in there. Larian had to either retcon official Wizards material, or work with it. The damage had already been done. They chose to work with it, and I think it's a mercy to everyone involved that Sarevok and Viconia are now very poignantly dead. Then again, that didn't stop Wizbro from _bringing back Jon Irenicus... because that's also something they do in MBJoV._

[@LightStreak567]

@@MinecraftRick Why do people mention Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy as if it is an official book in the first place? It's not an official sourcebook, so ignore it.

[@MinecraftRick]

@@LightStreak567 I'm afraid it is official. It is published by Wizards of the Coast.

[@LightStreak567]

@@MinecraftRick If you're afraid, let me alleviate your fear. If a D&D sourcebook can only be found in the Dungeon Master's Guild website and has the "&Guild" logo on top of it, it is not really official. However, books like Xanathar's Guide to Everything, and Candlekeep Mysteries are 100% official because they don't have the Dungeon Masters Guild website logo on them, and you can find them in stores like Game Goblins where Magic The Gathering and D&D tabletop adventures can be played. Besides, I've read that book and it is inconsistent with the Baldur's Gate lore, making many contradictions like pretending that Faldorn, Xzar and Montaron's deaths during Baldur's Gate 2 Shadows of Amn didn't happen.

[@LightStreak567]

@@MinecraftRick Don't be afraid of what's unofficial. If a D&D sourcebook can ONLY be found in the Dungeon Master's Guild website and has the "&Guild" logo on top of it, it is not really official. Minsc & Boo's Journal of Villainy has that logo. However, sourcebooks like Xanathar's Guide to Everything, and Candlekeep Mysteries are 100% official because you can find them anywhere, like in stores like Game Goblins where Magic The Gathering and D&D tabletop adventures can be played. Besides, I've read the Journal of Villainy, and it is depressingly inconsistent with the whole Baldur's Gate lore, making many contradictions like pretending that Faldorn, Xzar and Montaron's deaths during Baldur's Gate 2 Shadows of Amn didn't happen.

[@somerandominternetdweller]

She is the polar opposite of Durge the main character of BG3. Durge was meticulous and essentially an evil genius character. While she is more impulsive. Considering he was the one that killed Tav in an elaborate trap. Given I think the Durge redemption arc is the canonical end. Where Durge becomes a child of none. Also the evil butler says that Orin was born with a silver spoon, while you as Durge had to survive on your own and got your own diverse skill sets from living in the world.

[@jeffulloa218]

I know Withers calls us "Child of none", but i'd argue we're his child now 😂

[@SlightlyFeralRaccoon349]

When did he kill Tav?

[@alexwang3282]

People should understand that the Blood in Baldur's Gate detective and custom MC shouldn't be considered the same character. despite the same name Tav is used.

[@marbleherogaming735]

​@@jeffulloa218 he is Durges represantative in the cuty of judgement

[@micerron3905]

Nothing u said is true or cannon just because u read something on reddit or played or watched some MC playthrough doesn't make it cannon, nowhere has a dev confirmed durges cannon ending. I swear people forgot what the word theory actually means.

[@esh_414]

There was once supposed to be a 3 way fight at the Gith Creshe where Orin attacks looking for the artifact while you are there. I think that would have been awesome to see. Orin and her Bhaalists attacking while you are trying to deal with the Inquisitor. Rumor had it that you could even side with her, much like Minthara and the Grove. These are just rumors though, but I always liked the sound of that incident. Could have been VERY interesting.

[@Kingcj2001]

Orin was the member of the trio that least intimidated me. She's wonderfully written and her actress knocks every line out of the park, but damn, she just comes off as such a try hard. Everything she does looks to try and instill fear and praise. Heck, even the Bhaalists talk crap about her. I like her, but I'm not scared of her, and I think that's where it falls apart and where she lacks. She doesn't feel scary.

[@AC-ov5ny]

I do think that is the point the game tries to present, especially in the durge run so it feels like she is an unfit child whilst you are a true chosen.

[@ElysiumKeeper]

Gortash intimidated you? really? I couldn't help but laugh on my way to the Iron Throne. Such a bratty kid. A real, actual tryhard right there. At least Orin doesn't attempt to size you up and bark orders at you, no. She even warns you that Gortash will do that. I respect her honesty far more.

[@Kingcj2001]

@@ElysiumKeeper Never said the skunk intimidated me. 😆

[@emmasilver2332]

Orin is one of those characters that managed to absolutely terrify me my first playthrough, but yet I have also managed to feel sympathy for as well. She's the epitome of "I understand why you did it, but you're too dangerous to be left alive". Perhaps had she had a normal childhood she would've become a well-adjusted adult. But her upbringing gave her zero chance, to the point where there is no saving her, there is no persuading her, there's not even a glimmer of goodness left in her. She is 100% devoted to the Lord of Murder, and nothing you say can get her to waver from her devotion even for a moment. That stuff's unsettling af. And honestly, the fact that the writers somehow got me to feel sorry for her was the scariest part. The other two chosen didn't strike nearly as much fear into my soul as she did. They were predictable. Ketheric was the sympathetic, nearly redeemable villain who did everything out of love for his daughter. Gortash was the less sympathetic but charismatic villain, one who genuinely wants to work with you, and were it not for what he did to Karlach, his deal would've been quite enticing. Orin, however, is absolutely unhinged and unpredictable. And nothing scares me more than being unpredictable.

[@samuelgoodliffe4757]

0:55 wait people were scared of Orin? Everytime she popped up I was like "ayy what's up girl!" because there was no mechanical consequences for running into her. Like getting ambushed etc, so I was like whatever.

[@daniels8618]

Some people get more immersed and roleplay more I guess.

[@biggreen4987]

22:58: Yes, in the Ilithid colony at Moonrise Towers we can find Durge's written prayer to his father (Bhall), in which he stated that he planned to betray the other two (Gorthash and Ketheric) so that he could end entire life on Feurun. What's more interesting is that this plan would work because Elden Brain was so impressed by Durge's strength of character and ruthlessness that Elden Brain would carry out this plan without any doubt. Ofc Orin ruined everything xD. Her impulses saved Faeurun that day.

[@undefined6512]

Elden Brain: Shadow of the Durgetree

[@nathanrohde3440]

In general Larian did solid work, but the way they handled Sarevok and Viconia... it would have been better just to create new characters rather than shoehorn existing characters into the story they wanted to tell. Imagine Viconia... in Kethric's role.

[@DeerBonesBaby]

Unfortunately WOTC forced their hands at bringing in Sarevok and Viconia. Even worse, they insisted that the novelizations that bastardised their characters were canon and Larian had to work around that.

[@MinecraftRick]

BG3 was not the assassination of Sarevok and Viconia. The assassination of Sarevok and Viconia was Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy, that godsawful 5e splatbook where Wizards of the Hasbro really went in to just straight-up fucking ruin Bioware's Baldur's Gate lore, because they had figured that people were more passionate about something a videogame studio wrote two decades earlier than the corporate slop they themselves had started putting out. It basically retconned every good plot point about the baddies of BG1 and 2. There's so much wrong with the writing in MBJoV that Sarevok's return in BG3 looks like dignity in comparison to everything else in there. Larian had to either retcon official Wizards material, or work with it. The damage had already been done. They chose to work with it, and I think it's a mercy to everyone involved that Sarevok and Viconia are now very poignantly dead. Then again, that didn't stop Wizbro from bringing back Jon Irenicus... because that's also something they do in MBJoV.

[@Ryogenshe]

My issue with the cult of bhaal is they literally can't be too successful with their goals. Every time i talked to one of them and they were like we are a murder cult I wanted to say "so you are a group of murderers that wanna cause as much murder as possible but go don't murder each other on sight so you can cause more murder? Ok so if you murder tooo much then you won't be able to murder anymore cuz everyone will be dead. So how do you decide who to murder?" That is exactly how I feel about Orin a big ole question with no answers

[@Diabeticninja90]

That’s the point that’s her whole Character 😂

[@phillnyetheplaylistguy3759]

Presumably once the cult is all that remains of life they would murder each other until the last member standing kills themselves. Just my assumption

[@j.avance9031]

I had the exact same thought about embracing Bhaal and choosing the murder the world as the dark urge. If you kill everyone then you'll run out of souls to feed Bhaal and the god of murder will have no one else to murder. It's extremely short sighted imo.

[@beastwarsFTW]

Bhaal is just really stupid.

[@somenerd4572]

That’s uh… kinda the point. Almost like the type of person to join a cult of mass murder isn’t the type of person to think long term goals

[@emperorxenu519]

I hope you round out the series with Raphael after Gortash. He's not the MAIN villain but he is the most fun.

[@apocalypticchampion3518]

1:20 thank you for actually recognizing the emperor as a villain and not ignoring that he is straight up evil 😭

[@joedredd1168]

Why would Sarevok build a cult dedicated to Bhaal? He never once cared about his father nor did he venerate him, he sought, if anything, to usurp his position and become the lord of murder himself. Also bigger question WHY IS HE EVIL AGAIN?! And the same question for Viconia! Why do these legendary characters act like BG2 never happened? Why do they get so little screen time?

[@Ghostcharm]

to be frank, he wouldn’t. I agree with you. sarevok was never a “holy” man when it came to bhaal and his lineage. he saught power for himself only and it’s probably my least favorite aspect of bg3’s narrative. damn shame

[@Hitoshuratdn]

Blame Wizard of the Coast's canon and the poor writing skills of Larian.

[@RobThePrincess]

In BG2, he has an amazing Redemption arc as well. And not once has he ever worshipped bhaal.

[@jacklawrence3971]

Wizards of the Coast demolished his character in their novelization of Baldur's Gate, and kept it canon, so Larian had that to work with

[@gottinrod]

There is always the reasoning that somewhere along hundreds off years he could change his behavior or goals somewhat...I particularly do not see any problem with that. Whats stopping him from eventually reasoning that he could achieve whatever his motivations were better if he went on to lead a Bhaal cult? What if Bhaal promised him some reward of whatever kind if he did this? I really liked having the opportunity to smash his face in once again after so many years. Imo they rushed Minsc in too much and he kinda fell flat for me and was actually unnecessary, Sarevok on the other hand was a good addition to the game.

[@Elanchana]

Possible correction for the first segment: Didn’t Sarevok intend Orin to be a sacrifice right from her conception? That’s how I interpreted the lore, anyway. He wanted Helena to be able to murder someone as close to her as possible, which is why he had a child with her in the first place. Orin was never supposed to survive past childhood, but of course she surprised everyone by turning the tables on Helena and becoming Bhaal’s favorite instead. On another note, I went against canon a bit when I played my first Dark Urge run by designing my character to be Orin’s twin sister. Since Sarevok and Helena only meant to have one child, they left the second one in the street, not even seeing her as worthy of being murdered. There, she was picked up by a lower-class human couple and raised fairly normally, even adopting a “default” appearance she could use in public instead of her true changeling form. The Bhaalist cult tracked her down in her teenage years and took her away from her adopted family to train her in the art of murder. From there, her story is the same as the canon Dark Urge: devises the Absolute plot and gains Bhaal’s favor for it, usurped by Orin, experimented on by Kressa, tadpoled and memory-wiped. I gave her the redemption path from being influenced by the good natures of some of her traveling companions, especially her romantic partner Karlach. I named her Remi after the main character of Blindspot, who goes through a quite similar story of training, memory loss, and moral re-learning.

[@DryHeavingLlamas]

I wish there had been small incidents in Act 1 that hinted at Orin's presence. A grisly murder here, or a minor encounter with someone on the road that talks about being stalked by something and if you give them one of a handful of magic items (item giving them misty step or feign death or something), then they will survive until Act 3 but otherwise you'll find them brutally murdered later.

[@faith-kj4pg]

Bruh I just pieced together that the symbol of the Absolute is literally the Bhaal, Bane and Myrkuls symbols combined🤦🏿‍♀️

[@willr.1495]

Orin's VA doesn't get enough praise, I felt viscerally uncomfortable every time she spoke.

[@Keram-io8hv]

Well... She played certain tall vampire lady in some village where were residents kinda evil

[@keinchi]

We going to talk about how they (Orin & Durge) were probably doing the two people tango? Given the corpse is next to the bed… either necrophilia or incest. Probably the most vulnerable position for the Durge. Also how she noticeably doesn’t put the Durge corpse on display, always thought it was interesting.

[@Lenodan100]

I think the chosen 3 are all just representations of how you get evil characters, out of the three though Orin is definitely my favorite, don’t get me wrong learning and piecing together Ketherics broken faith is quite interesting, but I think I just love an evil character who is having fun, Orin definitely has the depth but not as much as her peers and I think that’s somewhat ok, I’m not saying her writing shortfalls are something I ignore, but there’s nothing wrong with a villain who’s villainy isn’t that deep but they make up for it with how they show off and how they make you feel both before and after you take them down. There is no negotiating with her, all she wants is murder and death and in a way I respect that, add on top of that her amazing dialogue and burns to certain characters and she ends up being kinda peak

[@kkcyd]

Villianpedia for the DARK URGE? 👀

[@Sharp931]

He mentioned it.

[@seb3661]

creator of the absolute, chosen of bhaal, murderer of light

[@MysticMorigan1998]

Orin is one of the very few villans I've seen that actually disgust me. But that's a good thing. See, if you're trying to disgust your audience, you're going to come off as trying too hard. But Orin? Jesus Christ she's visceral. Gortash and Ketheric are indeed just people. They could be possibly saved and redeemed, and they're actually sympathetic to me. Gortash was sold and beaten repeadily by Raphael and his underlings, and he essentially did the same to Karlach. Ketheric lost his wife and daughter and threw away the world. But he was still just a man, just a person. But Bhaalspawn? Orin's entirety is fucked up. I'm sure he coerced at best, groomed and raped at best Helena. Sarevoc was evil as a person- but to me, just like Durge, there was a possibility of redemption. But Orin had to be crazy. Imagine a "true" cult as we see it- cannibalism, murder, abuse, cruelty. Only now apply a actual truely evil God behind it that. Imagine what she was put through. Imagine what was wrong with her from birth. Imagine being a person who was "bred" for. Orin was born messed up. And then carefully groomed into being the person she became. She became truely disgusting. She's truely mad, and there was no saving her, no reasoning to her. 😊

[@benjammin5252]

Idk Gortash’ complete lack of humanity or regard for any one is disgusting. He reminds me of that scientist who doesn’t care how any bodies he piles up in order to advance discovery. The way he tossed Karlach and his parents aside so easily.

[@morgothable]

While i love all the villains in BG3, i kinda think they end up failing to live up to the villains of 1 and 2. While they definitely equal them together, i don't think any villain hits the heights of Sarevok or Irenicus. Sarevok, while showing up here as part of Orin's story, was Gortash but even more controlling and scheming. He also manages to have a really interesting story that explores him being left behind and finding his own way to power. Irenicus was more present than all the Chosen 3 together. He is also basically the archetypical broken character that has been and continues to look for power.

[@jimijenkins2548]

The netherbrain makes a compelling contender. That twist definitely landed.

[@TheWtfanime]

I'm glad I don't know anything about Baldur's Gate. Your videos on the villains of the series are such an amazing way to learn about the lore of the world and the villains themselves. The villains of one, two and now two of three from the villains of the third game, can't wiat for the last villain's video. Still hoping for Handsome Jack if ever get to him.

[@vizzzyy190]

i love that all of the chosen 3 are horribly traumatised and complex individuals. even orin, who seems very simplistic on the surface, has so much to her and her backstory

[@Vladimir-u3o7x]

Orin is not complex, that is part of why she is my least favorite.

[@vizzzyy190]

@Vladimir-u3o7x huge disagree, also did you watch the video?

[@angelicaeagles9627]

Well Durge being completely evil I wouldn't say that, the whole reason he still has that infernal butler is bcs Durge was always susceptible to acts of kindness and compassion, heck, the butler even says that the worst thing Durge ever did was giving money to a homeless person, and my Durge has done many acts of kindness since thanks to Orin vivisecting my Durge's brain and body 😅 by the way, I love your videos

[@Jrockk999]

I wouldn't say Orin is the most dangerous or even the most evil. She's just a wild killer with nothing other than plot preventing you from fighting her every single time she shows herself to the player. Her antics amount to a pouty and rather attention seeking child that wants praise from her bloodline. I find her rather lacking compared to even Gortash.

[@aistisnarmontas4515]

What I like is that Orin's voice actor has her original appearance in game disguised as a sergeant in cinematic of act 3 😈

[@crassweller11]

I definitely feel like a major difference between Durge and Orin is that Durge is a high functioning psychopath who is able to hold themselves back somewhat for greater results later. Where as Orin has almost no self control. Orin would never have been able to concoct the Elder Brain plan with Gortash. A good comparison would be that Durge is Hannibal Lector while Orin is Buffalo Bill.

[@MagicSpud]

My beef with Orin is that she almost never talks to you, she talks AT you. It serves a purpose but it gets old REALLY fast. Shame too since she gets off to such a great start before that as a character

[@fredi9204]

Great video. During my first playthrough as Tav, the whole Bhaal-Sarevok-Orin storyline felt a bit too fan servicey. I revised my opinion when I played as redeemed DUrge - IMO one of the finest character development arcs in gaming history when experienced in honor mode. It's too bad most players will never experience it, because Larian tried to play safe. I'm somewhat ambivalent about Sarevok's physical presence, but basically I take him as another "brand" puppet in Bhaal's dance macabre. I interpreted Orin's role all along in Bhaal's big plan, as being a placeholder to DUrge to be sacrificed once he gets with the program. I think Orin's tadpole trick put the wrench in gears so much that Bhaal had to send in Scleritas Fel to hasten DUrge's progress. It's completely logical that as an antagonist she appears 2nd rate compared to Gortash and Ketheric. She was meant to be a sidekick or at best a bit of competition.

[@the_ceeman]

I love BG3 but i thought their handling of baal was piss poor. Baal isnt supposed to be some cackling madman, hes a sophisticated assassin. In the older material hes specifically stated hating bloodcrazed psycho worshippers and that he missed his more organised and level headed cult. Hes the god of murder, not carnage. Also his plan fundamentally misunderstands the fantastic dynamic of the dead three. A world full of corpses can't have any murder, and a dead world belongs to Myrkul, not Bhaal.

[@Keram-io8hv]

Dude had identity crisis after Sundering

[@AbNormalHumanBeingsStuff]

I have a personal headcannon-theory that all the instances of Baal are actually Cyric posing as Baal from out of his prison, just wanting to destroy mortal souls to spite the other gods. Unfortunately it's basically an impossible theory, because Jerghal basically confirms it's really the Dead Three - unless of course that is trickery in itself (either Jerghal being tricked or Jerghal not being the real one).

[@EALoArt]

20:09 I literally said aloud "its kotor" while playing durge and it gave me such a serotonin boost

[@Dissection39]

I find it fascinating that the only time she can go more than 20 seconds without talking about murder, is when she is impersonating someone. Almost as if this constant talking about killing is a curse, like a price in exchange for powers of assassination or something like that.

[@HeckYep]

My slow ass still has to play this game. I'll be back to watch all of these in a couple years lol

[@DarkLordFromTheSecondAge]

Same, still waiting on the opportunity to build a good pc

[@dreadwolfrising]

​@FarmerSlayerFromTheEdoPeriod if it makes you feel any better, I've been playing it at ultra graphics settings on a 5 year old gaming laptop (with a 1660ti card) and it runs perfectly

[@dreadwolfrising]

Opposite problem here - I have a kajillion games I've been meaning to play and what am I doing instead? Playthrough #5 of BG3 😂

[@crylec6534]

I think Orin is a tragedy. A tale of a hollow woman without an identity of her own. She changes her skin, her whole life is Bhaal. What does she have if not the cult. I think a redeemed Durge is one she’s hate to see, someone who was more Bhaal than anyone defying daddy’s wishes and found a way to live on their own. Something she couldn’t do, I think even if it wasn’t a change. For the Durge to convince her to let go of Bhaal and her either breaking down in anger or sadness from that truth she could pick better, but remained committed as the comforting status quo.

[@smellycatbutts]

Orin suck on deez Bhaals.

[@goofygoob420]

And it's not only being free from Bhaal but being stronger because of it

[@celestebigaignon6054]

I noticed a little trick to telling who Orin is, examine people and you will see things like 'Level 12' for characters that should NOT be level 12. Fire a range shot at her and she reveals herself, I didn't know about her as the Wood Elf at the Circus of Last Days and felt icky after she invaded my Durge and Astarion's special moment.

[@baron-chan6484]

speaking of Durge and Gortash, the opening scene of act 3 when Orin mention we survived. Gortash genuinely sounded surprise and happy as he say "They lived" and Orin continued line sounded with frustation and a hint of anger.

[@romanabanin2216]

40:16 casually didn't find him and his Tribunal. Just have been crawling through sewers and found Orin, Bhaal temple, and destroyed her, gaining Bhaal's blessing

[@SephonDK]

I was never that impressed with Orin, found her too simple compared to the absolute excellence that was Ketheric, who we spent a whole act dealing with. However, her ties to the previous games and the Durge playthrough all add a lot of stuff to what she's about. Neither of which I've played. I feel that as I try those out I'll eventually really have her grow on me.

[@evalopez1454]

Durge is the correct way of playing this game, you can't convinced me otherwise. And they finally patched that little gortash discourse where he rats on you and now finally your companions react to the fact that you were the problem, not part of it. Fantastic.

[@AverageVagrant]

I mean... like... You're watching some serious video, it consumes you with atmosphere, speaker's voice envelops with its tone... And then 15:07 Laughed hard at that moment 😂

[@danielhorton8826]

Bro she canonically REEEKS

[@dreadwolfrising]

Rolling around in entrails will do that to a mf

[@smellycatbutts]

Yup she smells like the worst infection women go to the obgyn to treat.

[@Valkyrie556.22]

It's the dead three in bg 1 and 2 also had more than one antagonist as well and seravok wasn't the main vilian(final boss yes but not the main vilian) in bg1 and the seravok you meet in bg3 isn't fully serevok He was brought back with singular purpose by his god much like withers was by jurgal.unlike withers, seravok can't leave bhaal's temple or he would immediately be teleported back to bhaal's domain. He can only be in the mortal realm in areas under bhaal's influence. (Mainly because bhaal is purely a god like jurgal). You should do a story on bane bhaal and murkul and there ascension into godhood through the deal with jurgal and the race jurgal is from.

[@aistisnarmontas4515]

My favorite interaction was with Blacksmith. I'm playing Drow Durge. After Orin's appearance true Blacksmith came to me called me a hooligan that I beat him up. While it was Orin disguised as me. And rolled deception that it was my Evil Twin brother 🤣🤣

[@mvalesmvales7096]

43:44 So SO glad you included the Neil Roberts Dark Urge version of that scene, my first time seeing it because my dark urge was a girl

[@KingMadDog7]

38:07 I love that you can just be like "Yah dude, I'll think about it. I'll get back to ya on that." to both of them when they try to make a deal with you. 😂

[@Emanon...]

Are Viconia and Sarevok supposed to be canon? I would think their redemption arcs during the game made for far better stories than evil merely being "falling off the wagon".

[@ketra1504]

Sadly WoTC butchered their stories in canon novels and Larian had to go with it because they had to follow the official canon

[@Emanon...]

@@ketra1504 Damn. That's sucks.

[@Jason_Altea]

Orin: I will sink my blades into you and let your blood spill, inflicting all sorts of pain! My Tav, an impulsive monk: Aight, say less. Orin: What- Tav: Say less. Let's box.

[@robbieduijf633]

I can fix her

[@Peardon_]

💀😭

[@MisterFister612]

Nah whatever is wrong is much hottee

[@crylec6534]

Dude did you not see the pinned 😭

[@aVeryAngryMoth]

Nope.avi

[@art-o-cart5166]

How. All I did was throw dead gnomes at her till she died.

[@shuri-ken1803]

I actually disagree with your end points on her, Orin is basically murder incarnate in BG3, a product of many fucked up things to the point unlike Sarevok and Gorion’s Ward, was given no choice in her life’s purpose as she was literally made to be a servant of Bhaal.

[@clarencewalters338]

Gortash is actually the only chosen who didn't plan to betray the other 2. You can pass a detect thoughts and/or insight check to confirm this. DUrge however planned to betray Gortash, there's a note about how they admire Gortash so he will be the LAST one they kill before the end of the world

[@jacobdawson5990]

I disagree with that missed opportunity bit. I think lots of media is lost without that inherent evil Orin represents. Without that base mustache twirling evil great villains like ketheric don’t get to shine as well. If palpatine didn’t exist Vader wouldn’t be as great. Palpatine being more akin to Gortash but my point stands. Sometimes evil for evil sake is great. It can lead to a character like Serevok a great terrifying villain, but he gets to atone for that in the second game making him a human character and not just a pointed antagonist.

[@adamdarling2315]

This might be a bit TMI for a comment but these past 3 weeks have been probably some of the roughest I've had in recent memory. Its been hard for me to roll out of bed every day and even just enjoy the things I love. Which is why I'm really thankful that I found your channel, more specifically your Hero, NPC, and Villainpedia series. Hearing you talk about the intricacies of these characters, their stories, there mindsets, and even the theories you come up with has always uplifted me a little bit because I could hear the passion in your voice. The appreciation for not only the story but the world each of these characters inhabits is shown in every one of your videos and it inspires me to keep trying to find my passion again, even if I stumble alone the way. Sorry to ramble but I really just wanted to say, Thank you Ghost.

[@JustAFatherlyNerd]

I understand, and I hope things will get better for you.

[@Diabeticninja90]

I hope you get better my friend me too , I’m on the brink of homelessness , and I really don’t care about myself but I care about my daughter , she doesn’t deserve this , but how do I tell a 7 year old , it’s my fault ? And I failed you ? ;( with that said somebody always has it worse ❤

[@braylandwhitson7355]

Somehow Sarevok returned

[@ApplePi3.]

I think they did really well with these three villains. One you could sympathise with, one you could reason with, and one that was simply, pure evil.

[@stevemanart]

A note about Orin's heritage as talked about at around 24:20; Changelings are explicitly in D&D lore a race of humanoid/doppleganger hybrids.

[@Poplarman]

She should have a naked route

[@Morec0]

Our brother here is down bad... But I get it.

[@Dorumin]

It's textured, just gotta get that blood chitin suit out

[@Gintello9]

It would have suited the final duel with her etc. Orin using every distraction/advantage that an assassin of her caliber could think of to win.

[@nikkigrimm9686]

how cool/tragic it would be if when you tell her about her true origins, Orin truly loses it and surrenders, not wanting to fight and even throwing her netherstone to you only to have Bhaal take over her body and attack you regardless and you having no choice but to kill her, knowing that right before the end there was a glimpse of humanity even in her.

[@marlin4757]

So we are getting all three Champions. I like it.

[@dagothhyde7297]

Orin is one of those characters that genuinely doesn't deserve an hour long video about her. And it shows.

[@luckyowl6432]

44:50 this is the part of BG3 I remember most. I rarely talk to video games but I said out loud "Oh Orin" and just wanted to hug that broken little psychopath. I can fix her.

[@enjakuro7048]

I disagree with the 'Orin feels boring' take. She is pure evil. You can't change her, you can't reason with her. She makes you feel defeated. You can explain the reasoning behind the other villains to make them human in your eyes. But with Orin, you can't. She's just evil. You can't understand her because you simply do not have her physical and mental make up. You can't experience the world like she does. Her character made me think a lot about if pure evil actually exists.

[@thepeterwan]

Durge is the cannonical Character in this Game, but BG1-2 fans are not the whole intended audience so they put the TAV option (that was a good move). Durge have all the pieces of story that fill the gaps in this game and the unique content that gives sense to this story. Orin is an exceptional character made to complement perfectly Durge. Also as TAV if a player didn't know BG1-2 got an excelent villain. The only big thing that i didn't like it is Sarevok there , is just a retired grampa that don't resembre the amazing Sarevok of BG1-2 , In my opinion it should be dead or missing. Sarevok himself isn't needed in BG3 at all they should pay more respect to this character when they decided bringing back. Anyways the story of Orin and Sarevok and all relationship with baal was very good written.

[@BurghezulDjentilom]

real talk. sarevok and especially vicky was there for memberberries

[@elevatedmeance6807]

saravok wasn't entirely larians fault, WOTC made that awful novelization about saravok and unfortunately they had to work with that they still could have done better tho

[@thepeterwan]

@@elevatedmeance6807 Exactly, too many things to work because WotC pushed them into the game, some things feels light or even unnecesary instead of reinforced others.

[@Zigs01]

Hey @Ghostcharm would you consider doing Rachet and clank from the rachet and clank universe for the next heropedia? Or maybe samus aran from metroid vania. A few other noteables id love to see would be, Alex mason from COD black ops 1 and Geralt of rivia from the witcher Otherwise awesome vids keep it up! ❤️🎉

[@Zigs01]

Just thought i would also add that Jak and Daxter would be another awesome heropedia to do

[@BurghezulDjentilom]

these days, I find "pure evil" villains actually refreshing

[@mysticwraith6667]

She's kinda bad at her job. She always kidnaps the companion I dont care about 😂

[@celestebigaignon6054]

Since I figured out how it works I just make sure all the right people are in my party 😂. It helps if you have the increase party members mod, then I can save everyone and let Yenna get taken.

[@noblesarge9829]

Sir, may I ask for an Ebony Warrior video with what we know, your speculation, lore on Sword Singing, and the possibility of the Hooding. Of course when you have the change, I do love what you're doing.

[@Blandy8521]

An interesting comic I've seen online is having Durge as a companion who's struggling with controlling the urge

[@HiveTyrant25]

Am I the only one who thinks, in the context of her story, Orin’s one dimensional nature is actually in character and slots right in?

[@T-Mobull]

Bro, your content has always been my literal favorite lore binge to sleep to. But, the amount of polish it’s gained over the last year is insane. Each video is proof that you put a slightly disconcerting amount of care and attention into them. I hope you enjoy it as much as your community does.

[@cameronpearce5943]

My table-cannon is that there are now two Saravok's. The one who sought redemption after being revived by Gorion's Ward, and the remnants of divinity and blood that Bhaal's has claim too. At my table he lost his divine longevity and is now sorta like the old man Logan of my Sword Coast, wandering around trying to find some purpose after witnessing his brother's death during Murder in Baldur's Gate. I plan to have his be a mentor figure to one of my players in our Phandelver-Shattered Obelisk-Eve of Ruin campaign who 'might' be a Bhaalspawn too, and I think the good half of Saravok could make for a good mentor for him.

[@EALoArt]

38:31 doesnt Orin kill your companion if you go for her first??

[@AckeeSalak]

I think if you manage to get to her by avoiding her doppelgänger she may not have time to kidnap one of your companions. That’s my idea because I took a while to get to her. But at the same time I don’t think you can access the city without talking to gortash since a steel watcher initiates dialogue. But you can use persuasion to talk her out of killing your companion in the temple. She will go on to say let’s fight and you in a sense spare the companion.

[@celestebigaignon6054]

There is a persuasion check, that your companion is not a proper sacrifice. That you were the one that she was tasked to find and defeat as a proper blood sacrifice. I've saved every single one of my companions here, which have been Lae'zel, Yenna, and Halsin. If you go the sewer route you can hand select who gets chosen, but if you don't and it's just random it can be anyone. Also, where he said if they're romanced they can't be taken is wrong. I save scum and was able to save Gale, who I was romancing at the time. She took Halsin instead

[@jareddehart9107]

Orin as a Durge Romance. This needs to be added.

[@NATA5II]

orin as a romance/companion in general would be awesome. Having an unpredictable lover/companion like the durge would be fun. Especially if there comes a point where you have to decide to kill her, change her, or let her go. each having their own negatives.

[@Gintello9]

This HAS to be patch 8 content. I would imagine Orin would be an uncontrollable NPC if you had her in your party. Randomly just stabbing guards or shopkeepers etc just to spice things up💀⚰️

[@nojusticenetwork9309]

I feel like the whole "I need to understand why a villain is evil" or "i need to understand their motives" angle is overblown and overdone in media. Just like in real life, there are people who are just evil. No tragic backstory, no mental illness, no excuse or justification. They just want to cause pain and misery. Beyond that, not every motive or backstory really hits. Like for me, Ketheric's motivations for why he's a villain are not compelling or understandable. You suffered personally tragedy so now the whole world has to pay the price? No, I don't buy that nor do you get sympathy or even pity from me.

[@celestebigaignon6054]

Overall Orin was just a product of her environment. She's a product of major incest, was raised in a murder cult, and knew nothing else. It's a simple case of nature vs nurture. There is nothing to understand, Orin wants to please someone she has been raised to worship, and this is the only way she knew how, and the fact that she lost TWICE to a character who if you play as a redeemed Durge rejects it. She can't be fixed, she's psycotic

[@joshuamoreno9402]

Orin didn’t need to be layered. Her role was simply that of an apostle of a god of death. Were it not for the grand scheme of the dead three Orin would just have been another killer trying to appease her god. Her wants go no further than to simply maintain and elevate her standing with Bhaal.

[@christopherjustice6411]

I remember when Orin kidnapped on of my companions. I was so mad at her that I texted my friend the following “I’m gonna make Waco look like a fucking traffic stop.”

[@sxztube]

Babe wake up, new Ghostcharm just dropped

[@OakandIV]

Great video! Orin is a wonderful dark mirror for Durge. A reminder of what his father wanted him to be. And a reminder that being Durge isn’t a power fantasy. Durge & Orin are toys and tools in the eyes of Bhaal. Durge only gets his freedom (and power) by refusing his father in the end.

[@jbear3478]

My current roleplay is resisting the dark urge, my name is Lorin and I’m Orin’s twin sister 😂

[@ElliottDent]

Your point about the feeling of fear she evokes is spot-on, especially during a first playthrough. On my first playthrough, I toed the line with her demand to acquire Gortash's stone first, just because her presentation made me think there would be consequences if I went to her first.

[@tinyetoile5503]

You mentioned that Sarevok had a lover in the epilogue of BG2, so I wonder if Helena was conceived when he had a doppelganger transform into her?

[@Anotherguy1st]

Orin was pretty good but honestly I think I liked Ketheric the best. He had more depth imo.

[@cameronpearce5943]

Ironic, that the Lord of Murder would perform an act of antithesis to create life, which in turn would (in certain routs) become the antithesis of him. The Dirge who fights against their urge and nature to become better than they were made to be, and overcome the will of a god. Perhaps it is providence that for a deity to stray from their portfolio spells disaster, or just that the Lord of Murder and other fel gods use their portfolios as a crutch to justify their doings while mortals have the will to surpass them.

[@juggerknight4763]

Met her voice actress today at a con. Had such a blast talking to her and hearing how much she loved playing Orin The Red.

[@HIMMURF]

12:36 or Dee Ark Urg

[@ashthesas2302]

Orin is evil, but that doesn't mean we can't empathize with her backstory or her in general. I do appreciate that Orin is evil, and there is no saving her. I was honestly surprised that i could talk her out of killing the kid.

[@mahmud7645]

I loved the part when Orin said „Why so serious Dark Urge“ and started beat boxing

[@TNTspaz]

Old Baldurs Gate games feel like a classic railroaded dnd campaign. BG3 feels like the first time you do a sandbox campaign with a group. You have a handful of stories lines and you let players go in whatever direction they want. Its 10x more work and way harder. As well as will take much longer. But it'll be an unforgettable experience for your players

[@vizzzyy190]

51:10 who is this art by/where can i find it? its so cool id love to check out the whole thing

[@futurewario9591]

Don't forget to do Gortash for villainpedia