An Introduction To The Coffee Roasting Profile

[@larryminer7177]

This was a great intro into roast profiles. I can't wait to see the rest of this series and will eagerly follow them. I always have a hard time figuring out how to account for density and bean type when it comes to figuring out my profile and also keeping my RoR from looking like a roller coaster up and down. Thanks for the great stuff!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching Larry. I'm hoping to be inclusive as far as how I approach all of this. We all have different situations and that is what makes it challenging for us when we seek help or read a blog to get advice. So, we will get specific but I am hoping that each of us can take the examples and results I share and then adapt that to their roaster, environment, etc.. Are you using logging software? Remind me of what roaster you are using?

[@larryminer7177]

I am using Kaleido M2 and playing with Artisan trying to smooth out my RoR. Each bean presents a different roast and getting the curves smooth has been a challenge to say the least. Your universal approach is good because anyone using Artisan can apply the principles to their specific roaster, environment and bean. It's impossible to give one specific roast profile to cover everyone. I do like that these videos are shorter also. Thanks for your efforts!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for the reply Larry. I am glad you noticed the shorter format. It is really really hard for me to be concise. I'm trying to do that as much as I can. Fortunately I can edit to help with my deficiency. Also, thank you for the encouraging response. I'm glad my videos are helping you, an M2 owner as well as many others. Thank you !

[@peterbwhalley]

Mike, many thanks - love your work, from Down Under, Sydney

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thank you Peter for the encouragement. Thanks for watching.

[@kenpoken1]

Keep going.....I love this. I need to learn more! I have a M2 and am still learning how to use it properly!!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

The M2 is a nice roaster Ken. Hang in there and enjoy the journey learning to roast.

[@josephhancock5269]

I’ve learned so much from watching. Thanks.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching Joseph. What are you using to roast coffee?

[@ulisessanchez9681]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTION AND VERY INTERESTING AND VERY EASY TO LEARN THANK YOU BLESSINGS

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thank you Ulises. I’m glad they are helpful.

[@shanewilson2152]

Great video Mike

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thank you for watching Shane!

[@Jennandclarke]

Came across your page and I’m looking to start roasting! This is great information and I’m looking forward to learning more. Especially on different roasters. I see you have a vid on different roasters so I’m going to check that out. Thank you!!! 😊

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching. I’m glad you found my channel. Let me know if you have any questions. I did a livestream “ what is the best home coffee roaster?” Found here: kzbin.infoe4q6rC6k3AQ That video highlights some of the popular home coffee roasting machines out there.

[@thevisitormusic1743]

I really learn so many new stuff with you,thank you very very much for your videos.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

You are very welcome. Thank you for the encouragement.

[@larryminer7177]

Good morning Mike. I was wondering if you could one day discuss the relationship between weight loss, bean density, development time and RoR. I have been struggling to figure out why one batch at 14% development is 13% loss and the next could be 17% loss. I am thinking how much I slow the development is a factor and also bean density. Really appreciate your straight forward videos.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

At some point I will probably do a video addressing bean water activity, density, weight loss, ending temp, and color. For your 13 and 17 roast, was the bean color the same? Remind me which roaster you are using and share your phase times please. If you are measuring temps, please share those too at the events.

[@larryminer7177]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I use Kaleido M2 and bean color is about the same. I have about 5 or 6 different specialty coffees that I play with at any given time and have been playing with your development suggestion to slow down for more flavor. Most of my beans I roast to city or city+ since I try getting beans with fruit, floral, type.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Larry, go to the virtual coffee lab facebook page and send me the 2 different profiles as images. In artisan, to File > Save Graph> PNG.

[@maciejmoskwa2457]

Thank you so much! I am playing with my Gene Cafe, its inspiring what you show here. Best of luck!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching and for sharing. Not sure if you saw this video of a light roast with the Gene kzbin.info/www/bejne/homaYpmlZ7KDiKM

[@maciejmoskwa2457]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I did! and it was great new knowledge for me. I was too long attached to idea of roasting 230g batches and not always happy with outcome. Hats off for your brilliant channel. Best wishes from Gdansk, Poland. I will be a frequent visitor as I dream of running small local coffee roastery. Looking towards bigger machine like Typhoon Roaster from Czech Republic sometime in future.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thank you Maciej. Glad the video was helpful. I hope your dream becomes a reality.

[@dm8888]

This is a great video and very relevant to me right now. I can’t wait for future videos. I just started my roasting adventure on an SR 540 with ext tube and I plan on making a quick look up table of target profiles based on the specs of the different coffee beans I roast. I also bought a graduated cylinder so I can get density as well.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

This is exactly what I was hoping others would do. The foundational info like density will help us understand how we will design our profile and execute it. This is what I am hoping we can work through together in this series. In the end, we can buy a coffee knowing how me might want to roast it and then when it comes to the roast, we will know how to setup our roasters and manage our heat/air to hit our target event times and temps. :-)

[@PubRunner]

Thanks I am getting back into home roasting and doing some experimenting with an air fryer that has a drum and goes to 250deg. I use to just use a hot air gun and a colander and just stop at a rolling second crack and. It document anything. Should be fun.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for sharing. That sounds fun. I would be interested in hearing how that worked for you.

[@PubRunner]

@@VirtualCoffeeLabI am trying to figure out a way to measure the temps. My wife is into pottery and we have a kiln thermometer with several probes so I will be able to get an inside the chamber temp but inside the drum will be a challenge I think. I’m going to make a video of how it goes. I have a fair idea of what I need to do so should be interesting.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I would consider a meat thermometer that includes an extension probe you can lay inside the air fryer. If might not be able to go into the bean mass but even measuring the environmental temps without being exposed directly to any infrared heat source should give you an approximate of what is happening in the roasting environment.

[@PubRunner]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab it’s one of those round glass convection ovens that happens to have a rotisserie drum. Which is why it goes to 250 deg C where most “air fryers” top out at 200 My wife’s kiln temp proved will be able to measure the roast chamber easy enough.

[@epic27]

Thanks for this video! I've been roasting for over 15 years using a popcorn popper and Behmor, only recently have I decided to step up my game and get a Bullet R1 and dove in deep with Scott Rao's books. I haven't roasted a batch yet with my Bullet, and trying to apply my years of hands on w/ the Behmor to a more advanced roaster is a bit intimidating to be honest.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I’ve got a recipe I’m making for the bullet. I’ll be sure to share it when it’s available. Congratulations on your new roaster! The bullet is friendly and easy to use. I should have a few videos with the bullet in the coming months. Thanks for sharing and watching.

[@ronsamborski4833]

Found this very helpful!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Great. I'm glad it is helpful. What are you using to roast coffee?

[@kensafranek2306]

I’ve used the roasting sheet for every roast I’ve done,,,I also note the finish wt and starting wt,along with temp outside and also the % development and chaff level,

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

You are a better note taker than I am Ken. Chaff Level? Wow. Has using the worksheet helped you. How are you using the worksheet to execute your roast plan?

[@kensafranek2306]

once ive roasted I depend on that sheet to tell me facts about the coffee,,If we liked it, how it was processed, if we want to buy it again,,,comparing dev time on different roast of same bean

[@RickieBirkhead]

Another great video. I find many events in roasting can be objectively measured except green/ yellow transition. Tired eyes, tired brain, lighting, etc, all can create variables in judging color. Formal classes and instructional videos all say the same thing, “your eyes, your decision, be consistent.” Very subjective and difficult when your measuring seconds and degrees. I roast on a Mill City 500, any thoughts?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

@@RickieBirkhead Rickie, I've been listening to the experts talk about topics like this. One notable instructor/trainer/consultant (Rob Hoos) has modified his teaching approach to focus on first crack and drop events. His reasoning was it was easier for his students to comprehend and apply the roasting principles. I thought this was really interesting that he is taking that approach. I really value Rob's opinions. He is kind of a mentor to me. So, my point is, don't sweat it I guess. I believe marking the dry event is important. I also think that you you can get pretty close (within 10 seconds) calling the dry event. I wouldn't focus on temperature as much as color. I know people talk about the dry event taking place at a specific temperature but I don't agree with that thinking. I have experienced the dry event taking place at different temperatures when my energy settings are more aggressive, my batch size is bigger or smaller, and of course the bean I am roasting. That is one reason why I don't rely on temperatures for a precise event. I use my senses and be as consistent with color as possible. The Mill City has a trier and visual inspection is straightforward. I would recommend an LED light (4700k) over the trier area so you can have consistent lighting when you inspect. What model/year MC500 do you have? Are you using Artisan or RoastPATH?

[@RickieBirkhead]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks for the reply, my 500 is a 2021. I used the included RoastPATH until user fees kicked in and tried,unsuccessfully, Artisan. Obviously MC wasn’t overly anxious to promote “brand X”, but did help with RoastPATH’s no fee version. The free version is basic, but being a belt and suspender kind of guy I already keep pen and paper logs. The 500 is a fine machine, l just find the smaller bean mass creates variables peculiar to this roaster. Still looking for a MC 500 user group interested in sharing thoughts.

[@LivingTheLifeRetired]

This was good, looking forward to seeing future videos. I took a stab at amending a few of my link profiles to get more sweetness. I’ll do a taste test tomorrow. I really need to start doing cuppings. I’ve tried a couple times recently but have a hard time tasting nuances between coffees.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

The LINK will be part of my series Edward. Tasting is challenging. We all have different "taste" experiences and abilities. My taster is nowhere near some people. My son has a wonderful palate and he can explain vividly what he is tasting. It is fun to listen to him describe what he is tasting.

[@andreamunari5800]

TY

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching!

[@JuliusSP1]

How does processing affect your roast parameters? If naturals or anaerobic processing causes more or less density in bean would that change how you roast? Or perhaps the flavor profiles typically found in natural vs washed would change your approach?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

That is a great question. I made a video about this here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4iQd6N4had0d8k You are right on both accounts Julius. Naturals do affect the roasting parameters. I use lower charge temperatures if I'm trying to maintain the same total roast time. Joe Marrocco, who was with Cafe Imports and Mill City Coffee roasters once said "naturals behave as though they are already partially roasted". The idea is to be careful with the amount of heat you apply because the roast can quickly take off and move faster than you intended. I'm not sure how/if density is impacted with natural or anaerobic coffees. I don't think there is an impact but I don't know for sure. Your other question about flavor profiles is important as well. With Naturals, a lower charge temperature will change the profile, although most of the impact is seen in the dry phase, which doesn't impact the flavor profile much (depending on the momentum at color change). Also, I tend to use shorter development times for naturals and anaerobic greens to highlight a bit more of the fermentation. Most of the natural's tend to be high density, fruit forward coffees so I don't want to roast out the origin notes either.

[@3rd-Wave_Rebel]

Best tasting profile for me is by applying low heat at the beginning and slowly gradually applying high heat in the end right after first crack. Then lower the heat by braking off to a complete stop then discharge the beans! Reason for that is to soak the beans in low heat will somewhat extend the development stage throughout the process. Maintain steady heat all the way through will develop better tasting coffee! This method makes wonderful medium light roasts coffee. High heat in shorter period makes medium to dark roast coffee!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for sharing, watching and being a subscriber. What type of coffee roaster are you using with the roasting method you do. What is your total roast time and roast level?

[@3rd-Wave_Rebel]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Ailio Bullet Roaster: 600g Preheat charge: 250Cc 10-13 minutes

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

i would love to see what that profile looks like. I've been roasting on the bullet for about a month now and for 600 grams 250c is a fairly hot charge temp but it makes total sense, especially if you are using low heat settings earlier in the roast. That is what I would love to see. Can you share the user to look for on roastworld?

[@TyphoonCoffee]

Really nice information on the video! Good job. I have a one question for you regarding air roasting. I have diy air roaster and i can roast 500g batches at one time. Where would you start calculating roasting time? As you know air roasters don't need pre-heating. Would you start calculating roasting time when BT is 100 celcius (200 fahrenheit) or from the start when i load the beans and start my heating process? Cheers Joni

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Joni. I would calculate the roast at the very beginning Ning when you turn the heat on. Hot air instantly would encompass the bean mass, similar to when beans are dropped into a drum roaster.

[@mshah556]

Hi, after i watch your INFORMATIVE video about HIVE roaster i want to order that. My hard question is what kind of green coffee beans are good to roast for brewing Pour over ? (I don’t use dark roast). And where to get these ? Thanks again.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Any of the specialty coffee greens sellers like the Captains Coffee, Burman Coffee, Sweet Maria’s, Coffee Bean Corral, and several others. I did a video about how to find great green coffee beans kzbin.info/www/bejne/oamaan5vd7KpjLc which will help you understand what to look for when finding greens. I hope my answer was helpful.

[@mshah556]

Thanks Mike , So helpful. As usual

[@skyt54]

My Mill City MCR500 roaster should be arriving in the next couple of weeks. A Is it difficult to set up Artisan software for the MCR500? Artisan does not list Mill City Roasters. They say that the Modbus selection should work but you might need to select certain parameters from a menu in Artisan. I can’t find any information on how to select the right settings.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I use the "Phidget" as my machine selection and choose the type of phidget you are using (VINT or the 1048). Try reaching out to Artisan for support with this question. I'm not familiar with the newer MCR Roasters. My machine is a 2017 model. Sorry about that.

[@skyt54]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab So the newer MCR roaster does not use phidgits. Artisan does not support Mill City roasters because Mill City roasters does not support Artisan. Mill City has their own software which I had lots of trouble downloading. Artisan says that for I can use the Modus selection but will probably have to go into a settings page with a ton of selections to tell artisan how to respond to the mill city roaster. There is no way I would know how to do that. I guess I will have to try and find someone who can tell me. I’m going to call mill City and see if they can get me going on Roast Path, don’t like having to enter password every time I roast. I like Artisan, just click on it and it’s ready to go, don’t need internet connection to use it. Thanks for your reply. You said in this video that you do personal consultations on roasting, how does one arrange that and how much do you charge. I might need a little assistance when the roaster comes in.

[@skyt54]

@@VirtualCoffeeLabThe new Mill City MCR 500 does not use phidigits anymore, it uses MODBUS. Modbus is a selection in Artisan but it requires one so select a whole bunch of settings which I would have no idea about. I may have just found on Coffee Geek where someone posted the settings for the 500kg roaster. Not absooutley sure that is what it is but Can't do anything until the roaster comes. You said in your video that you do personal consultations. How is that arranged and how much do you charge. I may need a little boost when I get my roaster.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

i offer a "one-on-one" zoom for an hour. When you buy the time you are directed to a questionnaire to complete. You let me know what you want to talk about prior to the meeting and I try and prepare an outline. I ask you for a handful of times you are available and We agree together on a time to meet. I send you the zoon link. Here is the link to the page where you can select the zoom meeting. My Artisan expertise is limited but I will be glad to share any setting you like when we meet.

[@RickieBirkhead]

Had similar issues with my newer mc500. Mill City offers a simplified free version of their RoastPATH. Would love to get 500 users together and share experience with the peculiarities of this little machine.

[@pixelmediaphotography8487]

Hey Mike, Love your videos. I am new to coffee roasting and thinking about starting a roasting business. I wanted to ask you opinion on Mill city Roasting class. I am thinking about going in May. I looked at a google map and they are in an industrial area. where did you stay and did you rent a car to get back and forth from your hotel. My main question is did you get a lot out of the class? I'm in Florida so the $1100 cost plus hotel and airfare. Just trying to get an honest opinion before making the investment. Thanks just got my Gene Cafe yesterday!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I attended the class back in 2017. It’s been a while. I made it a dudes trip and took my sons with me. We hit some coffee shops, ate some great food, and ….. oh yea, attended the roasters class. :-) It is a lot of money, airfare, hotel, car rental, food, mill city class but the whole experience was worth it. Prior to the trip, I watched the roasting school videos several times to prep for the class. I think there were two important take aways from my trip. I met other roasting enthusiasts and got to hear about their plans. I also got some hands on time with the roaster. When my roaster arrived a month later I was more prepared to burn some beans. 8-|. Honestly, I’m not sure what they are teaching in their class . I think they have combined level 1 with some cupping,, sensory, the teaching and then some roasting. Is that what you are doing? I stayed at the Fairfield Inn & Suites Minneapolis St. Paul/Roseville 3045 Centre Pointe Dr. N Roseville Minnesota 55113 USA . I don’t know if the hotel is still there. Yes, I rented a car, Alamo I think. Congrats on the Gene Cafe

[@pixelmediaphotography8487]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Hi Mike, thanks for the reply. I'm still up in the air about going to Mill City for training. SCA has a foundation roasting class in Miami in June that i might consider. plus it's about a 3 hour drive from me. I got my Gene Cafe and was not to happy with the roaster. I decided to just buy and Aillio Bullet and learn on something that is close to a commercial roaster. it should be here next week so I'm prepping my garage for it and installing a venting system. Do you attend any of the expos. i know SCA has one next month in Chicago and there is Coffee fest in New Orleans in June. Keep up the good work on the videos they are very helpful for newbies like myself.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I just started roasting on a bullet a couple of weeks ago. I should have a couple videos on this in the near future. A roasting friend let me borrow his bullet. I'm not sure if I will be at the SCA. It is a schedule thing. I live in Michigan, so Chicago is close enough to drive. If I go I will put out a community post. I think you made a good decision about moving to a drum roaster to prepare you for commercial roasting. The Gene Cafe is fine for a home roaster but a drum roaster like the Bullet or Kaleido is a better option. If you are looking for certifications and want them to get a job then the SCA is a good path. If that isn't important and you want to save money, I would watch the Mill City Roasting School videos, some of Derek's roasts on that channel and my stuff as you practice with your bullet. I would be careful not to simply replay someone's roast on the bullet in the beginning. YOu want to make mistakes and learn from them. Watching those videos, roasting your coffee, and sharing it is a good path. You might want to get to know your local coffee shop people and have them taste your coffee. This will give you some validation your coffee is ok and they may have some suggestions. I attended a SCA workshop last year and it was about profiling. I was disappointed because they used IKAWA machines and I had to share it with 7 other people doing three roasts together. It was not what I expected. If you go to mill city and take their advanced course, you will be roasting on one of their machines, which is a great experience. You will go through the cupping, sensory analysis as well. That would be really helpful. Back to the SCA courses. I don't know what type of roasting machine you would use if you did roasting through the SCA course. There are certified consultants that teach their courses and I have no idea what type of machine you would use, if any.....

[@r.schumacher]

Is it possible to minimize acidity during an espresso roast. Or is it only the length of development? Great video!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

In my experience you can minimize the acidity. I lengthen the middle phase to mute the acidity. I might also lengthen the development a little BUT I am careful to keep the temp increase to only a couple degrees extra for that additional time in the final stage of development. What type of coffee are you roasting? How long is your roast and what roast level/temp/color are you at?

[@andershedstrom3048]

I have a line for how much heat a use

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Anders, you are recording your temperatures and then plotting a line? Temperature over time..... that is a profile. Do you change your profile based on the different types of coffees you are roasting?

[@klausrossler684]

Thank you for the great insights for us home roasters. However, I have one request: PLEASE operate in Celsius. I understand that you might be under the impression that most of your viewers are in the US but I think that's not true. Regardless, the imperial system is a joke, medieval and as a matter of fact ... only three countries on the globe use it: Myanmar (formerly Burma), Liberia (West Africa) and ... you guessed it ... the US. Please adjust to the rest of the world and make it easier to most of your followers.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Klaus, thank you for your message. Most of my newer videos reference Celsius. In this video, verbally I referenced metric measurements (grams). Visually I displayed graphs which used imperial measurements. You’ll notice in my video I did not verbally mention any temperature. This is really important. Talking temperatures with other home roasters is challenging and confusion because they differ from the machine machine. But are other variable cause of temperatures to present differently, including pro placement. I recently made a video addressing this challenge. It’s easier for us to reference our roasting profiles using time. My fist crack temperature will likely be different than yours. 48% of my audience uses imperial measurements every day. I estimate another 10% or more use both. I am making an effort to try and include both when I reference my temperatures. You can notice this in my videos that I’ve done in the last year. Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and for watching my videos. What type of roaster are you using Klaus?

[@Scoochmcbooch]

There's this really cool thing called the internet that makes it SO easy to convert measurements incredibly fast

[@Mk-tp2mz]

Thanks for the information. I understand the profile concept, but I think it's focusing in on one set of narrow variables will have limited global affect on the taste. When their so many other factors may have greater negative affect. Grinder, blade types, temperature of extraction, Bean quality. How old are they.?How have they been stored? Milk you use. How do you tie down a variable when each batch of beans you purchase may be changing. I have been roasting 8 years an unless you are only drinking short blacks, I haven't experienced the massive differences drinking a cappuccino. Their are just too many factors.

[@Mk-tp2mz]

I personally now try to remove obvious faults in my process from bean to cup rather than zooming in too closely on one set of details.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for your message. My roasting plan was for a specific outcome, designed for filter brewing, no espresso or milk. The beans are fresh, hi quality, high density. What would you have done differently to create a roast for filter brew? Please share your profile.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Oh, I forgot to mention, the purpose of this video wasn’t to suggest it was the only profile to use. It was to show how to create and execute a profile. We could have made any profile, but I created this one for my own enjoyment.