Volume - Low Vs. High (Pragmatic Bodybuilding & Believe Collab)

Low vs. High Volume? Which is best? What should you be doing?
3DMJ Chief Science Officer/Natural Pro Bodybuilder - Dr. Eric Helms and 3DMJ Coach/Natural Pro Bodybuilder - Jeff Alberts share their personal experience using both high and low volume respectively. Learn how they came to the conclusion for their own individual approach. Dr. Helms also breaks down how most people (~2/3) will fall into the generalized 10-20 sets/week, but the other ~1/3 may fall on either side of that range. Where do you fall? We share insights as coaches as to how we find our individual athlete’s ideal volume and much more.
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[@uchihaitachiakatsuki5164]

00:00 🤔 Discussing the significant differences in training volume between two bodybuilding approaches. 00:26 🗣 Common confusion among viewers about varying volumes in training routines. 00:57 📊 Volume in training is highly individualized; no universal volume fits all. 01:25 🔍 Coaching starts by assessing current volume and progress before adjusting. 02:22 🏋 Jeff's typical weekly volume is 6-8 sets for most muscle groups, with variations for specific parts. 03:04 💪 Eric's training involves much higher volume, such as 45 sets for triceps weekly. 04:10 📏 Direct comparison of quad training volume highlights Eric's significantly higher volume. 05:03 🔄 Efficient volume management is crucial for recovery and effectiveness. 06:00 🔄 Fast recovery rates allow Eric to handle higher volumes without feeling fatigued. 07:07 💯 Jeff emphasizes training with full intention and effort for each rep. 08:01 🛠 Jeff's training involves intentional, controlled reps focusing on muscle engagement. 09:08 🔍 Both Jeff and Eric train with high effort, but Jeff's lower volume is by necessity, not choice. 10:45 🔬 Starting with efficient, low volume before increasing is recommended for progress. 11:54 🧠 Individualized training is key; one size does not fit all in volume recommendations. 13:01 📚 Research shows varied volume responses; averages don't apply to every individual. 14:11 📊 Studies indicate different responses to training volume based on individual genetics and recovery capabilities. 15:48 🧩 Coaching adapts volume to individual needs rather than adhering to universal guidelines. 16:02 🌟 Training adaptability varies among individuals, influencing volume capacity and benefits. 17:10 🧬 Genetic factors and individual history affect response to training volume. 18:22 🔄 Jeff and Eric have different training histories, affecting their current volume needs. 19:01 🏆 Jeff's lower volume training resulted from past high-volume approaches and personal adaptations. 21:48 📉 Eric's upper body plateaued with lower volume training, showing different responses between his upper and lower body. 22:30 💪 Switching to higher volume, Eric saw regression in his shoulder press strength. 23:10 🏋‍♂ Eric's lower body continued progressing with low volume, highlighting individual variation in response. 24:05 🔄 Experimentation with different training paradigms and periods led Eric to discover the need for higher volume for his upper body. 25:13 🚀 Eric's upper body responded significantly to higher volume, surpassing previous size and strength levels. 25:40 🏆 Consistent higher volume training led Eric to achieve his peak bench press. 26:06 🛠 Jeff learned that too much volume caused fatigue and didn't improve his physique, leading him to focus on quality and performance. 26:20 🔍 Both Eric and Jeff emphasize learning what works best through experimentation and avoiding dogmatic approaches. 27:18 🧪 Gradual increases in volume are recommended to acclimate and determine individual response effectively. 27:58 🌱 Increase volume only when plateaued, ensuring other training aspects are optimized first. 28:13 🗓 Conduct multiple 3-6 month experiments to find the most effective training volume for sustained progress.

[@17jnewman]

Comments for the algo because you gents deserve it after all of these years!❤🎉

[@realbenmaynard6019]

Woahhh! A collab between two of my favorite series on KZbin?! What a great way to start my Saturday!

[@GVS]

Let's get the lads a biopsy! Just kidding, that involves giving up gainz.

[@sheasydoesit]

Awesome video guys, thanks for the insights!

[@brianbadonde8700]

a lot of genes involved in recovery and hypertrophy, it's safe to say no 2 people are identical

[@krane15]

Genes overall, but more specifically hormones.

[@brianbadonde8700]

@@krane15 no it isn't actually, the guy with higher testosterone doesn't always gain muscle easier or look more muscular, how sensitive you are to the testosterone you produce is more important and how many androgen receptors you have in the muscle, some guys can inject lots of testosterone and still not look impressive cuz they a low number of androgen receptors, but that's just one pathway

[@Trynabethicc]

love this collab vid! it's got more casual vibe than the podcasts but also gives lots of lessons :D

[@adamsloane1748]

A great conversation. I learned a lot. Thank you!

[@bigcson]

Great video guys!

[@yaroslav64]

Excellent video guys, love the conversation

[@ParvParashar]

Absolutely loved the video! Great discussion. 🙌

[@andyatch33]

Awesome discussion! Thanks

[@DanNixon-FF]

GREAT discussion guys, very eye opening and informative

[@user-hc5pi5zh5j]

So helpful. Thanks so much guys.

[@sxhrgvs]

Really interesting discussion. In my 50s now and still not sure what works best for me. This helps in terms of thinking about it though. Thanks guys.

[@Loyaltyinthisbusiness]

Thank you for the great content

[@andrewsiero9468]

Good vid. Jeff’s back is awesome 👏

[@fortressofswolitude]

Great video/information. 👏👏

[@petebullard5982]

Flexible mindsets towards training styles combined with videos of both in world class shape - great video 🤝💪

[@SwoffBass]

This was fantastic. Thanks for this video and what it reveals and teaches. This variation in responsiveness to volume explains a lot of what I’ve experienced and helps me to make some adjustments. Thanks again!

[@kban77]

I'd like to know some of the mechanisms and genetics of high vs low volume people.

[@gamerkyle14]

16:00

[@outdoor_-journey8603]

Fiber type proportion and voluntary activation percentages play a very big role in tolerable volume

[@kban77]

Fibre type maybe. But that isn’t exactly what i meant. I meant the genetic influences to in cell repair and recovery specifics. Not just thr fibre type

[@94EyeEagle]

iirc, one mechanism that has supporting evidence is ribosomal biogenesis. One research found that people who have more ribosomes (essentially where protein synthesis happens in a cell) tend to response better with higher volumes.

[@max12244]

Also recovery I guess, some people can't recover very well and reach a systemic threshold pretty quickly. I'm the type of guy who gets stressed easily and can't recover enough if I do more than ~12 sets per body part. So I do around 5-10. But very close to failure (never less than 8 RPE). The most difficult part when you train with low volume is the exercise selection. You really have to pick the best exercises for you (at a given time) because you don't do a lot of sets. Might be different for weak points though. Also, what happens outside of the gym impacts training, I mean if you play basketball 3 days a week and train 3 days a week good luck for your 20 sets per body part

[@fichshreds2661]

Very interesting stuff 👍

[@griffingeode]

I love that Jeff mentioned diet when reviewing past history. Changing multiple variables makes it difficult to draw conclusions. I'm currently enjoying less sets per workout while hitting the same body parts frequently in a week; but I am also a big fan of gradually adjusting and pushing those limits.

[@rachananihalani9723]

Good one lads

[@vicenteiranzo3483]

Very helpful as I am currently working on finding where I fall in regards to volume. There’s a lot of nuance in body building and I have been confused. At first it looks like team low volume vs team high volume. Now I see you just gotta give it some experimentation. Thanks.

[@franciscojaviergonzalezjim87]

Amathing video , make more of this type of content❤

[@georgesarreas5509]

Thank you sirs

[@adilkhaled3957]

Keep it up guys

[@postworld1185]

Jeff, You've may have tried this. I've been lifting many years. I love LV and always get wrecked too. Lately, I've been doing minimal WU's then knock out a top set (try to PR to failure/ 10-15 rep range). Additionally-2 days a week I drop all lifts 50% & just do pump sets to get in the volume Eric gets in per wk. Its so light it doesn't seem to affect recovery. I'm no more wrecked with the additional 2 light days.. Its working.

[@wesrobinson7506]

Great video! I enjoy hearing on individual differences to achieve your freaky fysiques. I think it would be great if you guys could do an in-depth video on how to find individualized volume needs. Like is there a protocol that you guys follow and checklist?

[@richardtrass]

That old footage of Jeff shows just how massive he was (is). I actually prefer that look to stage lean tbh. That’s the look that’s going to give physical presence. Impressive

[@krane15]

@19:10 An example of a true look long term. As opposed tot he transitory state of being stage ready.

[@lorenzoojeda1680]

Jesus christ Eric, that is a ton amount of volume! How do u still manage to keep your motivation given the busy life you have and coupled with the fact that you are already an advanced athlete?!

[@ericrhelms]

Hahaha, don't I know it man. I love to see progress, I love to push myself, and the fact that I'm finally competing at the level that I always wanted to all help...plus I'm a very one dimensional person, LOL, my life is all about lifting because I just love lifting! I coach it, teach it, study it, write about it, talk about, philophize about, and learn the history of it!

[@MrSHOT321]

need to watch this in imax

[@Sparksnorthern]

Great discourse. I'm halfway through so not sure if it comes up but Id like to hear a narrative shift around people not needing to fear volume at the cost of recovering/fatigue. I think we all can handle a lot more volume than we think.

[@troy3423]

I'm just like Jeff. I've tried high volume approaches and I just spin my wheels. 12 sets of quads/wk is about the max I can handle without burning out.

[@azulsimmons1040]

Good discussion. I'm not a volume guy. I just feel terrible and have terrible recovery with volume. It brings me back to the fast versus slow twitch fiber discussion as even when I was young I was terrible at distance running and good at sprinting. I know over time I could probably adapt to more volume or distance running, but I don't enjoy it. So no point in pursuing it as I'll just quit lifting due to boredom as volume bores the living crap out of me. When I work out, I want to feel some heavy weight and see some progress on the stack or bar as often as possible. Increasing the number of reps is fine as I know that will likely lead to increased weight, but if that was my only increase I would get grow very bored.

[@seawhales1000]

Starting at low volumes and building it up per muscle group, or exercise makes the most sense to me. 10:40

[@chrishantulik100]

I’m with Jeff I CAN’T Recover from anymore that 1 Set to Failure and 1 Drop Set (Upper Lower 3 Day workout) I Get Snappy,Tired,Grumpy And just Don’t want to Do Anything Chris from Manchester England

[@Han-nk3io]

That is because you grinding too much. it cause a lot of Systemic fatigue that is why you feel grumpy, tired. I used to get that feeling from doing low volume failure training. I used to do 1 set an exercise to failure but cause me to feel tired sleepy all the time even though i am on 500 surplus and 10 hours of sleep. I started to pull back and doing a double progression model so i wouldn't have to grind so much, i feel so much better each session even though i am training so much more from 3 times a week UPPER LOWER to a torso limbs split 6 days a week.

[@AK47_.]

100% with you Chris. How old are you. I’m from the UK also btw.

[@Frag1ty]

@@Han-nk3io Menno debunked the existence of systemic fatigue

[@Han-nk3io]

@@Frag1ty Systemic fatugue or CNS fatigue is just a name . It is fatugue in general. Menno recommendation in impratical because people have live out side the gym.

[@BombSquad.MP4]

@@Han-nk3ioSo…doing 1 set to failure is too much, but working out 6 times a week is not? Are you trolling or are you serious?

[@jayschiavello6876]

Like it!

[@tomztomasz506]

Eric's deltoids on these hammer curls look amazing. In comparison - mine look subpar. I need to step up my shoulder game...

[@TheMashinarium]

Видео шикарное, ещё одно подтверждение что люди разные) и надо подбирать под себя и пробовать, а не биться головой о стену одного и того же

[@erric288]

I find that I'm like Eric, my upper body needs a lot of volume to move the needle at all, and my lower body tends to do fine on very low volumes. I've attempted higher volumes with lower body exercises, but my knees and low back give out before the muscles really have a chance to respond. The very high loads involved also take a lot of systemic recovery resources away from the rest of my training. So I end up focusing more on quality reps with slow eccentrics and pauses to milk whatever volume I can tolerate in the lower body. For the upper body, the only upper limit seems to be tendonitis if the loads get too high too fast in a meso. My problem is I just don't have the time to do 4-6 days a week to get that volume for the upper body. Thanks for the discussion.

[@troy3423]

Lower the weight and raise the reps? Perhaps find exercises that don't bother your elbows

[@erric288]

@troy3423 that's what I do, basically staying in higher rep ranges and finding exercises that don't aggravate my shoulder especially. I was just saying that is the upper limit for my upper body volume, but it is much higher than what I can handle vis-a-vis lower body volume.

[@troy3423]

@erric288 gotcha. I do think responding to lower volume is a blessing.

[@BombSquad.MP4]

Doubt. If you find that you need higher volume, you’re not training hard enough. Man up kiddo.

[@leonardosilva5501]

Let’s go!

[@lucasjay1000]

Can 100% relate with Eric. 16 years of training and have finally come to the realization I just require more volume on upperbody to make progress. I great progress overall on bro splits, then did upper lower powerlifting splits and legs continued to grow while upperbody regressed continuously. Ppl, Arnold split, or bro split seem to work the best for me who’s upper needs a lot of volume and lower needs much less

[@ew-zd1th]

Thats interesting. Would you say in the Bro Split your Recovery IS better And you grown more than on ppl or the Arnold Split?

[@lucasjay1000]

@@ew-zd1th I prefer the Arnold split because I like doing upperbody 2x a week but legs do great with 1x per week. I usually do chest/ back day, delts/arms day, leg day, full upperbody day.

[@BombSquad.MP4]

Most lifters who say they need ‘higher volume’ work, don’t need more volume. They need more intensity. Don’t be like Eric, be a man instead.

[@lucasjay1000]

@@BombSquad.MP4 If you’ve done low volume high intensity for 5+ years and have made no significant progress. May be a good idea to throw in a little more volume. For my upperbody to make any progress I literally have to do medium/high volume and most sets to failure. This is after 16 years of lifting though so not useful info for noobs.

[@SF-fu9xr]

The thumbnail reminds me of Goku vs Frieza on Namek

[@Sportbyscience-zr8yz]

thank's a lot for this video. Indirect volume is considered as 1 set for muscle or probably 0,5? thank you very much

[@gerym341]

Very, very interesting. Thank you for sharing

[@benbernanke7701]

Made progress from both styles. Hard to tell with your own n=1 which one is better when they both seem to do OK.

[@user-db6tx1hs5o]

I feel this. Have found the sweet spot for legs. But for the upper body, both moderate and low volume seem to work. Difficult to know what else might be factoring in aswell. Especially when considering certain body parts seem to recover faster and desire more frequency and volume than others. Hard to program for that for sure.

[@FrogmortonHotchkiss]

An important question that I wish would get addressed more: does 'optimal' (whatever that is for the individual) get you to a higher place or to the same place quicker? For example, if I'm better-suited to low/high volume, does picking the right approach matter if I'm not in a hurry?

[@94EyeEagle]

I think that answering that question almost certainly needs to involve experimenting with either approach in a meaninful amount of time. So, in your case, you still need to take time and effort to find your own "optimal" approach. Just my 2 cents.

[@94EyeEagle]

Rewatching the video, I think Eric did (partially) address this question, that (paraphrasing) before attempting to determine your own "optimal" volume, you will need to work on technique efficiency, movement quality, and intensity first. And you also most likely will be better off starting at a lower Volume, work on the aforementioned factors, observe your recovery and gains, then if and when a plateau happens, decide to add Volume

[@FrogmortonHotchkiss]

@94EyeEagle I've done it all over many years, so it's more theoretical interest for me at this point.

[@Eniovrolix]

I have the almost the same experience as you eric need more volume for upper body and less for lower body but for me it was the opposite my legs where sticks dropped the volume on legs and they blew up and the same for rdls i made prs every week through my bulk

[@ZeedDesign]

I wonder what cues you look for in assessing recovery. Ability to retake the same weight? Mental fatigue? Soreness? General weakness?

[@ew-zd1th]

Good Question

[@pimpleonureye]

12:12 This is similar to my experience too. 3 sets of flies and bench and my chest would be consistently sore for 2 or 3 days. I thought I was Dr Mike Isratel when it came to volume. But then afrter I decied to try pushing volume and working out when I'm still a little sore, repeated bout effect came in and I was able to double my bench volume and still recover on time.

[@ew-zd1th]

Thats very interesting. I am sore in Front Delt and Chest. From 5 6 Sets Chest pressing (or Chest Press and flys) and i barely Recover from it. Have your Body now Adapted to the Doms? So that eben with more Volume your Doms are away in the Same time or even faster?

[@pimpleonureye]

@@ew-zd1th Yep. Doing 6 sets of chest with 1-3 RIR I'd usually be sore for about 2 days. Over time the DOMS would be about the same, sometimes lingering longer sometimes going away faster. After doing my normal excercise when I still have a little bit of DOMS (but not a lot), I was able to slowly increase the frequency until I was able to recover (at least DOMS wise) with double the weekly volume as before.

[@mab963]

Wealth of information! @Eric Helms: You mentioned that your upper body developement really only started taking off once you started doing 10 sets of presses and pulls (5 vertical, 5 horizontal each) per session, 3x/week. Out of curiosity: Would you mind sharing your routine from back then to give us some more context?

[@ew-zd1th]

Question to Eric. The time when you shrunk in 2011, did you experience doms? And today are you experince any doms from your high volume? Amd if are you training with the doms or are you 100 recovered each Session?

[@Healp145]

23:11 First time i’ve heard eric wheeze like that 😂

[@pimpleonureye]

27:03 I'd really enjoy a video on SFR myth busting and some info on recent data. I've become increasingly skeptical that proximity to failure (or beyond) makes as much of an impact on SFR as people say. I've also noticed that higher rep ranges are so much better on my joints, that even though it's harder to push close to failure I can do a lot more volume. I'd also say a 2 RIR in a 10-20 rep range feels more stimulating than a 10-12 rep range due to the smaller increments of fatigue per rep you have to stack on to eventuially get to failure, if that makes any sense.

[@ew-zd1th]

I wonder, my lats never sore even when i do lenghten partial supersets, butvmy calfes are sore from 2sets for 5days. What wozld you do in this case foracimum gainz? How can reduce the doms?

[@dory_m78]

Is it true that it takes your body 6 hrs to fill up glycogen levels after eating? From my humble experience ive found that if i train in the morning the first meal (300grams of carbs)takes me at least 3 hrs, and if i train in the afternoon- the 3rd mea(75grams of carbs)l would take 2hrs

[@clinthajjar102]

Overreaching: good bad ugly etc thanks

[@TypicallyUniqueOfficial]

I hate that I respond so well to volume. I wish I could do 3-8 hard sets a week then pig out and sleep to grow. I can’t say that lower volume didn’t work at all for me, but the muscle and strength I gain with higher volumes is a night and day difference. It sucks because I love training like Dorian Yates and the trendy low volume you see these days.

[@oizzo001]

Cool Video guys! Thank you! I´ve a Question for Eric´s Volume: So the direct sets for Shoulders (Mid and Side) are 13 and 26 from Chest Volume? And the direct sets for Biceps 8 (28 from Back) and Triceps 6 (26 Chest and 13 Shoulders)? It´s not entirely clear! Thank you!

[@ericrhelms]

The range of 13-26 for shoulders is because I don't have the same volume for each head of the deltoid, as rear, middle and anterior delts are hit by different exercises. The indirect work for triceps is any pressing or straight arm pullover/pressdown, the indirect work for biceps is any row/pulldown.

[@jakoblochner4784]

Question: If I were to try higher volume (at the Moment I do about 3 Sets per Bodypart twice a week, very high intensity, positive & negative failure) - would you Go down with intensity or try to remain it high and try to acclimate? Would you do higher reps for easier recovery?

[@MrLexisbill]

Looking at videos of Jeff he does low volume with heavy weight which builds muscle and team 3d does moderate weight for high volume they all builds muscle it just up to you to find which best works for you there's no best worksout routine .

[@DarthNoshitam]

So is it fair to say that if you can recover from higher volume, you should do it?

[@Kuchipop]

So if loads are going up, don’t worry about doing too little? What if you progressed reps/load on one set per week? Clearly that isn’t enough for gaining muscle despite performance increasing. How do you determine actual muscle gain when pictures can be slow and deceiving? Is something like starting with 6-10 sets, make sure performance increases, and only add volume if performance isn’t increasing, you’re recovering and all recovery variables are on point? (Sleep, food, etc)

[@JimmyStruthers-lb3sn]

One set is absolutely enough for gaining muscle. Literally over 50 percent of the total possible gains come from the first set.

[@Kuchipop]

@@JimmyStruthers-lb3sn gotcha so you think starting with like 6 sets per week and only adding if performance stalls is solid?

[@contadogoogle7416]

If I do 2 sets of chest, with very good technique and 0-1 RiR, I get a pump and get very sore for 2-3 days. Does that mean it's probably goos to not do more or change exercise/increase RiR? Is soreness a indicative of a damage/fatigue that isn't good for hypertrophy?

[@ericrhelms]

No not necessarily, just indicates that you overloaded, but just stick with that volume, intensity, exercise for now so long as you're seeing growth and increases in gym performance, as we discussed in the video, don't need to change something if you're progressing.

[@wesrobinson7506]

Hey Eric when you were doing the 5x10 3 x a week of chest press, shoulder press and rows and pull downs, did you do much direct arm work or leg work?

[@ericrhelms]

yes I also did arm work after the compounds, and had 2 leg days, but the leg days were 3 sets per exercise, and I only did 3 sets on one arm exercise bi/tri on my upper body days

[@wesrobinson7506]

@@ericrhelms thanks Dr. Helms!

[@Nicholas19823]

This absolutely blows my mind guys , 26 sets a week for the chest? Are they all working sets? I’m currently doing doing X3 direct sets a week on my chest ….

[@ew-zd1th]

I would have crazy Doms in Front Delts and Chest If i do this, hard to Imagine that i can benefit from it

[@Solidfreeman01]

This looks like a competition in typical hacker-nerd-like back posture! 😀

[@NopeNope78]

Question for Eric: when you were coaches by Alberto, what was (approximately) your weekly volume per muscle group per week? I know Alberto is also a fan of low volume so I’m curious if he noticed you were a higher volume responder and put you on 20+set.

[@ericrhelms]

Berto hasn't programmed my training for me, and Berto wouldn't describe himself as a fan of low volume - I doubt Jeff would either, and I also wouldn't describe myself as a fan of hight volume. We all follow a similar philosophy of focusing on quality and intensity first, and then if they aren't responding but recovery is in place, we try higher volumes. I go over my history in this video if you haven't watched the whole thing yet.

[@NopeNope78]

@@ericrhelms not “a fan of” high or low volume, but a friend of mine bought the berto program templates and it’s definitely low volume. I’m pretty sure we can agree that Jeff and Berto follows a “lower volume” training approach and you follow a “higher volume” training approach. Not saying this is how you program for everyone, but that is how you personally train

[@ericrhelms]

@@NopeNope78 just saying it’s more relevant to focus on how we all similarly program the same way - the process, vs the outcome, which will look different for everyone based on how they respond

[@donluchitti]

What do these guys and a lot of other leading Body building/ fitness communicators mean when they refer to Hiit being bunk (now). I understand hiit has been debunked but curious exactly in which ways?

[@mattheweley]

Confusing, but they’re taking about resistance programs, not cardio philosophies. They’re saying HIT, not HIIT (High Intensity Training not High Intensity Interval Training). Think Mentzer Heavy Duty- resistance training with very high intensity and very low frequency

[@donluchitti]

@@mattheweley thanks!!!

[@trinitylahtibikinipro]

One problem I run into is I need more volume for certain muscles, but my joints and connective tissues won’t let me. :(

[@NopeNope78]

Curious about how long does your workouts last Eric with this kind of weekly volume? If you do that amount in 4 days per week training, it’s probably 2 hours + workouts…

[@ericrhelms]

Give my other episodes in my series a watch I go through my entire workout split :-) but because I use antagonist paired sets, rest pause and drop sets, my workouts take 60-90 mins

[@NopeNope78]

@@ericrhelms will go watch them for sure!

[@ericrhelms]

@@NopeNope78 enjoy!

[@troy3423]

That feel when every muscle group responds to low volume except for calves.

[@kane6529]

Shoulders responding to low volume said no one ever

[@troy3423]

@@kane6529 Anabolics

[@ew-zd1th]

How the hell could eric do 16 sets harmstring, with just 8 per week i got sore every day. How is this possible?

[@ConorF727]

He says he isn’t sandbagging, I find that hard to believe.

[@jakehickman_]

He built different

[@krane15]

I have news for you, it has to do with the individual that matters the most. Some people just respond better to volume than less and vice versa. Also keep in mind that we have two opposite body types.

[@marianarzoiu8958]

i do his volume in a month . holy sh*t

[@stoempert]

Jeff dabbled, don't change my mind.

[@manimal9871]

So did Eric, he admitted to it many years ago online it was a pro-hormone.

[@latman1]

How much does age and natural testosterone levels affect how one can handle this🤔 or being ecto,meso,endo?🤔

[@ericrhelms]

Testosterone levels don't seem to predict anything related to volume or responsiveness to training (just look at women's similar response to RT in terms of relative % increase in muscle size and strength to men) and ecto/meso/endo aren't clearly defined, no data links anthropometrics to workload capacity or responsiveness, and in coaching practice, we've seen no correlation between bone structure or body fat. This isn't something easily predictable in my experience.

[@latman1]

@ericrhelms You're speaking over my head in that response. 🤪I hate to say I don't even know what RT means in the women's comparison. But what I do know is I've been training and competing for over 35 years now and one of my training partners was Skip Lacour, and what I've learned from all these years is that it seems to all be genetics. we'll be arguing until the cows come home, whether Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman did it better but they both tore up their bodies in the end. I have rarely seen a natural bodybuilder make changes to their physique much after he's been training 5 years or so regardless of the style training that he's doing. And nowadays it's hard to believe with the AI, Photoshop, sarms, peptides🤣 every generation will have their Arnold and Metzer🤔 at least those guys didn't tear up their bodies though.😁

[@ericrhelms]

@@latman1 sorry RT is just “resistance training” my bad, spent too much time writing today and using acronyms!

[@latman1]

@ericrhelms I'm sure you're aware that females have different levels of testosterone also. In my experience sometimes you'll find natural females that have a little peach fuzz on their face and they're just naturally more muscular and responsive to weight training. I haven't known enough of them to figure out if there's any difference in their training styles or if that would even make a difference I think their body just responds to weight training in general no different than men with more testosterone whether its synthetic or not.

[@ericrhelms]

@@latman1 absolutely they do, but my point is that despite having a fraction of the testosterone of men, women respond similarly to men, on average in terms of their relative gains in muscle size once they start training. There have also been numerous studies where they look at high and low responders and see if baseline testosterone levels predict high and low response, and they don't. However, you might have more baseline muscularity (albeit only to a small degree), prior to ever training with higher natural test levels, but its not a major player at normal physiological ranges.

[@ew-zd1th]

Have you seen evidence that people which respond poorly in general, can get better muscle gainz with more volume?

[@samueldahl9790]

I think I might be an Eric😢

[@LukePettit]

19:10 lol caption

[@AkrabSouls]

Upper body is Eric, lower body is Jeff

[@dmytrotkachov6859]

First time I've seen so much volume on erectors specifically. woa

[@HumbleDictator]

Sandbagging haha. I WISH I could get that physique by sandbagging.

[@flow1188]

love high Volume with high intensity. I grow very fast since.

[@freelancer-st4yc]

The tatt on your hand is in arabic right? What does it say I could barely read نفسك

[@quangsumi]

Did Jeff train 6-9 sets/week like that all his life or just a couple of years back? I am doubt that he did not push everything he had when he was younger and only resulted to low volume recently just enough to maintain his physic. No way on earth you can build a competitive body for just 6-9 sets/week, period

[@jeffalberts7968]

‘92-‘10 I trained with a modified version of HIT that suited my needs, so my set volume per body part actually avg about 3-6/week and my frequency was lower at 1x/week. People are different, like you, I was really skeptical myself, but over the years the skepticism turned into more open mindedness that when training others there are going to be variance how they respond to a plethora of programming.

[@quangsumi]

@@jeffalberts7968 thank you for replying. Despite still disbelieving (maybe because of my coping mechanism), I am open-minded to this new knowledge and will give it a try myself in the future. Very impressive

[@jeffalberts7968]

⁠@@quangsumiyou’re welcome and thank you for your transparency. I love that you’re willing to explore and open up to new ideas. Personally, what has held me back the most over the years was getting sucked into one camp’s vacuum. Bbing or life, I only see tools and my goal is to fill my toolbox, so I have what I need to get a job done as effectively and efficiently as possible.

[@krystofodehnal9448]

pErIoD. Maybe stop watching too much science based bs, try training hard for once and you will find out you do not need to do 52 sets for rear delts every week.

[@quangsumi]

@@krystofodehnal9448 no science said 52 sets per week per muscle. Keep learning snowflake

[@joshuaclewes1883]

I read a post title saying hard gainers who started off skinny with more of an ectomorph bone structure need high volume to keep making progress.

[@fossilfusionz8891]

What a great video for Saturday love you both. Thank you. Now Jeff people are going to wonder why you are too soft 😉 jk. 💙

[@engr.tonystark3504]

I literally do just 4-6 sets per week per muscle group and my gains are way faster than the stupid “optimal 10-20 sets per muscle per week” bullshit. My split is: Monday - Back & Shoulders Tuesday - Rest Wednesday - Legs & Abs Thursday - Rest Friday - Chest & Arms Saturday and Sunday - Rest 2 exercises each muscle group for only 2 sets each! Amazing progress than doing 10-20 sets. INTENSITY > Volume!!

[@JimmyStruthers-lb3sn]

Yep. Tons of people built incredible physiques with low volume before the internet got silly with this science based bodybuilding crap. I feel bad for anyone who fell for this trend, it’s just a shtick certain people are using to make money ( cough cough Mike Israetel)

[@Manuel080293]

good for you man. just think of the time saved with that approach! are your measurements going up ? a lot of people would just maintain their gains with that volume (4 sets.)

[@engr.tonystark3504]

@@Manuel080293 Maintain? WTF. No I am progressing almost every workout. Heck even Mike Mentzer's one set system would improve you.

[@koreuscallidus]

363 bench? My 1RM is 264 and I am sure I got more chest than Eric.

[@Han-nk3io]

Eric stay very lean.

[@anthonyc2076]

Muscle insertions

[@koreuscallidus]

@@anthonyc2076 Nah I am a doctor and invented a new exercise that yields tremendous chest growth. That's it.

[@koreuscallidus]

@@anthonyc2076 @Team3DMJ No, I am a doctor and invented a new chest exercise that yields tremendous gains. That's it. Before I did that one I barely had chesticles.

[@kane6529]

What the fuck is up with your neck Eric 😮 this thumbnail is wild

[@Jimmy29li]

I wish I could do less than 10 sets per body part a week. I have to hit at least between 20-30.

[@BradSchoenfailed]

Nobody needs 20 sets a week to grow lmao

[@manimal9871]

@@BradSchoenfailedhe must train with zero intensity lol

[@Mark-nm6zw]

Oh please, your most common comment goes along the lines of "bro, do you even, like, lift?" Love you guys, even if it's my purpose in life to troll occasionally 🤣🤣🤣

[@billybobs1705]

biceps getting more attention than tris? even though the arm is mostly made up of the tris

[@blase3121]

Drug Miller is on drugs so that's a different story 😄

[@manimal9871]

Yeah he is definitely a fake natty 💯

[@Pizzalover22-um1vw]

Just more proof that low volume is better. Jeff built like a tank and Eric looking like a bean pole after decades of training

[@Tbird-hw1vl]

jeff was jacked at 17.

[@BradSchoenfailed]

@@Tbird-hw1vlBecause Jeff trained intensely from the beginning and Eric has been doing junk volume his whole life

[@DaniloCardoso1991]

You need to recover AND progress, if not, probably you're doing too much, there's not a natural that is big, that isnt strong

[@joachimjustinmorgan4851]

Maybe after 13 years of experimenting with high volume, eric should experiment with low volume, because Jeff looks way better.

[@ew-zd1th]

He already has with jeff together, and lost upper body muscle

[@joachimjustinmorgan4851]

@@ew-zd1th that’s a red flag. If you said he made slower progress, then I could buy that. If you’re telling me he actually lost muscle from continuing to train, but just lowering his volume, then there’s something wrong there. If he’s using Brad Shoenfeld logic where you’re claiming you tried training to failure when in fact you’re obviously like 8 reps away from failures and calling that a set, then yeah, I could believe low volume training lost him muscle…. Because he was in fact doing zero sets. Something about your claims here smells though.

[@sucdeportocale21]

get out of here you troll

[@ew-zd1th]

@@joachimjustinmorgan4851 that Not my Claims, have you watched the Video?

[@feelzgoodmane6517]

Just because person B looks better training one way doesn't mean person A should switch... especially if person A is making progress. Everybody has gotten jacked training one way or another.

[@orlando9923]

Do you guys even lift