VPForce Feedback Joystick Test Part 1

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

Sorry, forgot to convert to pounds and put it on the screen. Standby for Part two, I change the setup to remove the extension and fly with the stick straight on the base....its amazing.

[@nemisis_wolf]

Looking forward to that second part.👍 1Kg equals 2.2 pounds just to help you out 😜🤣

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

😜​@@nemisis_wolf

[@nemisis_wolf]

Another informative Video from the master of infotainment! LOL👍 Yes you are totally correct the most prolonged pull in a fast Jet would be a high G spiral dive which can only really be achieved below 15,000ft due to lack of air pressure at altitude not giving the wings enough "grip" to give a max G pull at higher altitudes for any prolonged time. So under 15K and spiraling in your not going to take long before you reach ground level and have to pull out at which point you probably going to be severely fatigued from the pilots perspective as you'll be pulling anti G muscle cramping techniques all the way down. So basically the VP Rhino can do what we as Virtual pilots need it to for long enough to "keep it real" enough for what we need. The only thing we could ask more of is increased force and Moza's new FFB is tagged as similar in force strength 9nm as the VP Rhino, But WinWing are touting a massive 20nm max force for their upcoming force feedback base, so that will be a great battle to see the difference in force strength and how long it can keep that maximum force up!. But we all know that with Force feedback it isn't so much the mechanical product that counts, 95% of the "effect" is how good the software is at giving you the sensations and Moza are well behind the curve in this at the moment but I'm sure they will catch up quick enough. From what I know WinWing already have experience in FFB with their GA pilot training rigs that started their business so it will be interesting to see how quick their software adapts to MSFS and more importantly for me DCS World. Update!! My VP Rhino is literally in the post! Should be on my doorstep by the 4th at the latest according to Fedex!

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

Nemisis :) thanks mate hahah I thought you would enjoy this one, thanks for the great feedback and comments. WHOOP....WHOOP....she is in the mail...mate this is exciting news. Cant wait for you to get all setup, will have to ping me an email once you start using it on your thoughts. Its such a game changer. Part 2 of my testing will really impress, spoiler, I gain almost 1-2GK in force.

[@AusRobbo]

Hey mate great video. Some points to add to what we’ve spoken about before…. stick movements from landing gear transitioning up or down aren’t realistic, but the haptics/motion giving a vibration and bump through the seat would definitely be correct. Perhaps you also noticed the need to change trim once the configuration of the aircraft changes? Also, the correct term for you is forward-trim or back-trim. There’s also rudder and aileron trim (depending on the aircraft). 😊

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

Thanks bother :), Yea I knew you would pick up on the clunk in the stick from the landing gear haha. I remember when you had a day in the rig helping me fine tune and test everything that this was not a realistic effect. Its amazing though that we have these options though to add to the immersion, although not 1 to 1 realistic. It is pretty epic though as I am getting the bump through the seat with the Buttkickers and also the stick clunk, together in VR its amazing at tricking the brain. I will pay close attention in my upcoming test for Part 2 if the forces change on landing gear up and so forth. As always mate your input as a retired AF Pilot is invaluable :). Oh.....and good racing yesterday hahaha, I will have that video up soon.

[@karade]

Thanks for taking the time to make such a detailed video on the actual force this puts out. Hopefully force feedback joysticks become more common and the technology advances like it has done with direct drive wheel bases. It's not related to the joystick but have you considered swapping the quick release for your wheel to be on the base instead of the extension? Having only the one wheel this made sense for my situation and frees up a bit of extra room when not in use.

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

Thanks mate, means a lot, really appreciate the comments. I actually had to add that extension as I fly, race cars, ride motorbikes and play space games all in the one rig lol. I needed the extension to get me in the correct option for racing and rally relative to the pedals, shifters and wheel. Plus I have a set position to get my seat into for flight so the stick is just right in position to my seat. Its a real jigsaw puzzle this rig of mine hahaha. Hopefully in the future I will have two rigs, one for space/flight and the other for racing.

[@bigbangerz5856]

I find it interesting no one has done a comparison between the Rhino and Moza base….. yet

[@nemisis_wolf]

Probabaly cause no one has both. It can take a year to get a Rhino and at the moment Moza are struggling to keep up with demand with about 2 to 3 weeks wait time. The big difference is the software . Just look at most of the reviews the Moza software is improving quickly but it's still a long way off from being as good as the Rhino. Both advertise for 8>9nm which is about 5KG or 11pounds of pull (2.2 pounds per Kilo) WinWing is coming out with their base soon as well but it is offering up to 20nm so we are looking at nearly 11Kg of pull or 22.2 pounds of pulling force and it's going to be cheaper to buy at $429.

[@utley]

@@nemisis_wolf yeah but its still made in china...quality is questionable.

[@nemisis_wolf]

@@utley Not really, I've said this many times now. The old China produces cheap crap stereotype mainly holds true, simply because we in the west ask them to make up cheap crap and they willingly do so but they are more than capable of making super high quality products as well and you will find that there are some large high quality Western companies that actually get their products manufactured in China. China CAN and Does also make high quality top end products but most of us only see the cheap crap cause that's what we buy. Have had WinWing kit for over a year now and it is still 100% like new despite hundreds of hours of flying. I'll be making a one year review of my WinWing kit soon but TLDR, it's Top notch with few problems and I have others in my DCS Flight School that have had WinWing kit for three years and more and it's still 100%. Only one student has had any serious issues with his WW Kit that required contact with WW to sort it out and they did (albeit slowly). WinWing themselves say they want to be known for their high quality AND low price and actually cancelled contracts with switch suppliers when they first entered the Flight sim Market as the pre production runs had bad switches and faults show up from reviewers and while yes there are examples of their products still having Quality issues, show me one company That doesn't have RMA's. Logitech flight sim kit is diabolically bad and Thrustmaster definitely has issues with certain products in it's flight sim line up that is refuses to deal with. No WinWing aren't perfect no one company is. But they do keep innovating and improving all the time and listen to what their customers ask for and tell them could be improved and continually are adding to their product line and they do it at really competitive prices. This in turn has pushed others companies in this market space to wake up and to try and compete rather than be left behind in the dust (Looking at you Thrustmaster) which is good for us consumers. But the, "it's made in China it's crap" argument just doesn't cut it with WinWing.

[@bigbangerz5856]

@@nemisis_wolf yes but is that engineered by Moza? Well who knows tbh… Anyway I’ve contacted a content creator that has the AB9, I will offer up my Rhino for loan and lets see what happens :)

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

I reached out to Moza in the hopes they would send my a unit to test, even send back once finished. I'm sure they get a million emails like this, I never heard back from them. Anyone got an AB9 they want to lend me? 😁. As my channel grows ill be in a better position to grab these new hardware releases and will endeavour to bring more comparisons and my opinions 😊

[@dcsx-files8689]

Got my Rhino almost 2,5 years ago. Still impressed by it, it's such a crucial part of my flight sim rig.

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

Couldn't agree more, and that also helps answer anyone's questions around how long will the Rhino last :) Thanks for watching mate.

[@dcsx-files8689]

@@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs Ha yeah, my Rhino was the first in the wild. Serial Number 000002. Still kicking like on the first day. ;)

[@Fr4Ged]

@@dcsx-files8689 That is insane. How did you discover the project that early?

[@bricktopperheadon5490]

Well done, you produce excellent sim videos. 👍🏼

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

Thanks mate, really appreciate the comments, thanks for watching :)

[@Darrylx444]

Air combat often results in pulling heavy Gs for somewhat extended periods of time. A near-parity rate fight can last many minutes, for example. Also, some WW1 fighters did not even have pitch trim, so you will have to fly long periods out-of-trim just cruising.

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

I was actually testing a high G turn at a constant rate yesterday, I will put this in my upcoming video, how long do you want me to maintain that for in the video?

[@Darrylx444]

@@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs You don't have to test it that way, you can just test in the Configurator (like you already did). Maybe with a jig so you don't have to hold the scale by hand, and create a graph of force vs time at full spring for IDK 30 minutes? That would be interesting. But I make no claim either way about the extended cooling performance of the Rhino (my own is still brand new) - that's not my point. My comment was simply in response to your claim that cooling was not a problem "unless you are just flying the thing stupid / how it's not designed". This seems like too broad a brush to paint things with. From what I've seen you don't ever perform any PVP air combat on your channel, just civilian cruising / impulsive joyriding for which that opinion may indeed be valid. But there is a whole segment of combat flight simmers that fly very differently to how you do, resulting in different demands on the equipment. I'm sure the Rhino is still capable of it, but with more frequent (and possibly deeper) overheat force reduction compared to a more casual environment. On packed IL-2 GB servers the fur-balls can go on and on with little chance to escape the WW1/WW2 front lines sometimes. I've often run out of bullets and/or fuel first, and even become physically exhausted IRL. If I survive long enough. Anyway, I do enjoy your videos, Rhino brother!

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

@@Darrylx444 Yea that's a pretty accurate assessment of my style of play. I though that the static test,holding it for that long, showed that the fans kick in and keep the motor stable at around 61 degrees Celsius. The temps dont rise much further if at all and thus the force output stabalised. Ill see what I can do to setup a rig of some type to hold the gauge in a fixed position and perhaps do a much longer hold in Part 2 :) appreciate the comments mate and thanks for watching.

[@utley]

I ordered mine a few weeks ago...cant wait!

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

Oh awesome mate, you are going to love it, absolute game changer.

[@utley]

@@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs yeah if I can wait the 6 months!

[@ShtrikeBirb]

it's not fair. The force should be measured not in the lower part of the grip, but in the upper one, where you actually hold it. And it will be significantly less.

[@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs]

Yea its hard to do that as I would be pulling on the trigger, trim hat, and buttons. I am doing the best I can with what I have. Honestly though mate, we are splitting hairs over about 1 inch.