VtM: Bloodlines 2 - New Developer, Release Window & More

[@dasphoenixable]

I really want this game to be good. I love the original. However, with how development has went I’m extremely hesitant to even get my hopes up at this point.

[@DaveVoyles]

I came here to write this identical comment

[@theobell2002]

I think it looks good. Now obviously I'm not a fan of the emphasis on action and lack of focus on the story in the trailer BUT from what we can see the gameplay looks good and the atmosphere seems to be there. We haven't seen much of the story and RPG elements, though. And we will see more of the game as the year progresses.

[@dasphoenixable]

@diomedes7971 a remaster that stays true to the original would be amazing, heck keep the bugs and the crappy stealth and melee combat that drops off. Just shine it up. Edit: Maybe not all the bugs, now that I think about it. It’s been a long time since I have played it without the unofficial patch lol.

[@Czermet666]

I think there's a few positive notes that make me feel optimistic about BL2. They've hired a genuine table-top Rpg gamer & core VtM enthusiast to be the community manager for the studio. @StrangeAdventures on KZbin. They're a small studio, which like LarianStudios, tend to care more about their product & have better odds at avoiding the usual corporate BS we're so used to being shovelled. @Outstar's still actively working for the WorldOfDarkness company, but tbf whoever made Swansong even had @TheGentlemanGamer writing for them and that game never got patched out of Alpha state... So everything can potentially still go wrong like Swansong... but we do have some reliable people to push *our* agenda for the game. It's not just being developed by nobodies who don't care about the franchise and are out to milk it for a quick buck.

[@NoBody-tf7ib]

​@diomedes7971 I'd rather play the game with no mods and textures attached. It's more faithful.

[@1rnw792]

If this somehow turns out to not be disastrous, it would be a real achievement.

[@Agent789_0]

At this point it's a s success if it doesn't set your computer on fire the second you boot it up.

[@mcflufferkins]

Could end up like Dead Island 2, which was far better than one would expect after multiple developer changes over the years.

[@Garbageman28]

@@mcflufferkinsthat’s the best case scenario. Hope to be proved wrong but I think it’s more likely we’ll get a Mafia 3. Very good story and some solid gameplay mixed in with the most tedious quest design imaginable and a VERY buggy/unoptimised world.

[@wholesome1844crucifier]

Judging by the plot and gameplay changes shown so far, it's sure as hell a step in the right direction compared to what Hardsuit Labs was working on. Whoever thought that the sequel needed acrobatic finishing moves straight out of a Jackie Chan movie deserved to get fired.

[@WanderingCoyoteXVII]

To be fair, the original had a bunch of problems... and they're still working on it. But hey, it's still a fantastic game, so hopefully this will eventually be worth our time, even if the release product is...

[@ElDesperado7]

Side trivia: Chineese Room is a philosophical concept about beeing able to hold a conversation in a language you don't speak by simply using pattern recognition. Similar to how AI like Chatgpt works. Answering "How are you?" with "fine and you?" simply by mimicking previous conversations observed.

[@Celadonis-the-Lore-Seeker]

Well, maybe if they use this method with VtMB 1 they can manage to make a good sequel ... my hopes are very low.

[@Freecell82]

It's not a very good thought experiment tbh. It seems to establish that you *could* speak a language without understanding it, but there are a lot of good responses to that take on it that really harm the argument, and even ignoring that, people seem to confuse "this could happen" with "this is happening." I also don't think GPT is really an example. LLMs do know things. They don't work the same way we do, but there's an awful lot of information about the world and how it works bound up in their structure. It's kind of an insane take to claim they don't really know anything, even though they're incapable of actually reasoning about or acting on what they know. LLMs are not searching some database of appropriate responses, or doing anything analogous to that. They map relationships between concepts. That's not the same as simple mimicry.

[@likeorasgod]

This is actually how I know a couple of langs. I can't speak them but I understand them enough to try to talk back by using simular patterns in the languages I know or that or closer to what they know.

[@Ahrimane]

Yeah, the novel Blindsight explores this concept with the idea of an alien species that doesn’t have consciousness.

[@jtrain9926]

The 300 year old "elder" thng isn't too worrisome to me as I believe vampires in WoD that wake up from prolonged torpor aren't at full strength. In addition, you may be be from a strong bloodline but may not have gone into torpor at full power (think Christian from VtM: Redemption). There's basically enough wiggle-room in the lore to start you off as a relatively weak vampire that steps into being an Elder.

[@Hedberger91]

Miles better than being a thinblood who diablerises a stronger vampire like the previous dev planned

[@syrienangel4137]

Not to mention that just because you're an Elder, doesn't mean you are invincible. Generations for vampires only promote power potential, not necessarily skill. You can still get your ass kicked by a vampire who has had a hundred years to master their powers compared to you who may have been alive for over 300 years, but was asleep for over half that time. However, if you train just as hard as your advisory, that power gap will diminish fairly quickly, at least for a vampire. You also have to note that even century old vampires will still want to follow certain rules like the Masquerade. Maybe not for a war with humans, but the consequences of making enemies with other kin and drawing unwanted attention towards yourself.

[@alexkt3400]

Good take, by the end of VTMB the player character bitchslaps Lacroix, who is a vampire that fought in the Napoleonic wars. Basically we're getting a ~50% power level increase

[@MichaelIlos]

Apart from developer's lack of experience in the genre, focus on combat in the trailer is also concerning. If you ask people that played the original vtmb what they enjoyed the most, I bet "combat" would be among the least popular answers. I hope to see more of immersive sim approach that made the first game good: various points of entry to locations, multiple solutions to problems like stealth, combat or dialogue, all of which also altered by what abilities are available to your chosen clan. I'm not sure developer team that only worked on narrative driven walking simulators can make something like that. While I believe chinese room can create a decent narrative, I'm worried that they might have turned vtmb2 into a simple rpg with only gameplay mechanics being dialogue and combat, and we'll have a typical structure of get a quest, go to location, kill enemies, make a choice in dialogue to determine the outcome of the quest. This wouldn't be too bad on its own, especially with good narrative and atmosphere, but as a sequel to vtmb that would be dissappointing.

[@mytotim8978]

Well, gameplay was the thing most people criticise in the original bloodlines 2 gameplay reveal, so that´s why they are trying to show the improvements

[@Shamino1]

They focused on combat in the game because EVERY SINGLE 'in game' footage from before 2023 showed combat with clipping characters, zero tactile feedback to your melee attacks, glitched and bugged animations, and the combat in VTMB2 looked absolutely terrible. Go back to watch the E3 2019 in-game footage again, then come back and watch the new trailer. If they focused solely on story in the trailer, people would ask "What about the shitty gameplay?" And since they showed way better gameplay people are saying "Yeah well, what about the story?" Use your critical thinking skills and realize they showed off tight combat in the trailer because the combat in VTMB2 looked like absolute trash.

[@WinterFogFilms]

Also being based on a ttrpg right after the massive success of BG3.... Lot of expectations to live up to that they aren't giving any hopeful signals of approaching. I want the choice and meaningful narrative I'd get sitting at a table, and they're giving... Pre-established characters and frankly clunky looking combat.

[@TommyHanusa]

Fun Fact: The city of Seattle isn't even 300 years old, so the elder vampire probably isn't a local. (Although to be fair, some Salish peoples did live in the area that would be made into Seattle for thousands of years).

[@ThePlayer920]

The protagonist was probably transported there as a gift or tribute to the local Sabbat archbishop but managed to avoid diablerie for one reason or another. Or did they? It's also possible we are playing as an elder who has possessed the body of a neonate after a failed diablerie.

[@maximesavard2759]

Yeah the oldest city in North America is like what… the 400+ years old Quebec City ?

[@TommyHanusa]

@@maximesavard2759 well there are some very old cities in North America that predate colonization, by thousands of years. WoD wiki does make mention of one methuselah in the Americas but that doesn't really fit the timeline.

[@danpitzer765]

@@ThePlayer920Depending on clan, the diablerie could end up foiled by the Sabbat themselves (a Tzimisce who was part of the original Anarchs would provoke the Sabbat Tzimisce into absolute rage if you tried to diablerize them without them actively provoking it). Or just grampy waking up at the wrong moment. Would be a bad day if you were getting ready to snack on a Brujah or Gangrel and they woke up. Second Inquisition could also cause it. If you haven't been let out of your corpse-box yet, some foolish Sabbies could lead hunters down on the location, wiping them all out (causing that mentioned power vacuum). And then you wake up afterwards, in a world where you don't know the rules of the tech, don't know about the second inquisition, don't know that Gehenna has happened...making you simultaneously extremely vulnerable and extremely dangerous as you default to rules that were abandoned in fear of the mortals wrath.

[@rylian21]

The entire country of the United States of America isn't 300 years old.

[@danpitzer765]

I really, really love that they're throwing away the 'you're a new thinblood', and went with 'WHO WOKE UP GRANDPA?!'. Instead of 'brand new baby outpowers mighty elders in a week', we get more of a 'stranger in a strange land' situation.

[@Daniel-nf1gq]

I think both can be good. Thinblood is an interesting concept to explore, but it felt forced since it was pretty much assumed that you had to diablorize someone in the past iteration of the game to get to the real content, which is a big decision lorewise and looked kinda snowflakish. Elder though can be especially good if they allow to customize background of a character.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

Nah this is bad. It makes it yet another oh here you go super hero dragonborn who has no character choices that really matter. You will be a super weak 300 year old for half the game anyway. A thinblood doesn't mean you are weak, since even humans killed Elders before. And they could have always included a choice for a powerup by sucking blood from some other Elder vampire to get your power fantasy going

[@nyahjzt-7430]

​@@mcmarkmarkson7115bro stop with this euphemism on games like skyrim, the witcher etc, playing the big badass hero IS cool, there's a reason this concept is so popular don't you think?

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

@@nyahjzt-7430 Playing a hero is awesome. But in an RPG with choices, it's complete garbage, sorry. See Witcher 3 is a great game, but it has no consequences and rather linear story, which is cool, but I want more games where story is what I make it. And vampires was one of the few good games that ever managed to have cool story AND cool choices Especially when there are gazillion games where you are the hero.

[@Myplaylists93]

@@nyahjzt-7430playing the big badass hero is getting old.

[@jaymes4750]

I really hope someone can save this game.

[@Czermet666]

I don't think it's in that much peril to be honest. I think it's a good sign that the developer has been shuffled around and the release has been heavily delayed. It signals that they're not just happy to produce garbage and sell it anyway. Because the delay would've cost them a pretty penny so it seems they're more invested in the quality of the final product. @StrangeAdventures (a genuine table-top Rpg gamer & youtuber) has been hired as the community manager for theChineseRoom and he just said he liked playing the game as it currently is. So that gives me cause to believe that we'll at least have a voice in the official development team to push for what we want the game to be, and not just make another Swansong disaster or follow the AAA tradition of appeasing investors at the expense of the players. Plus theChineseRoom don't have the plot-armour that bigger studios have to release crap and get a pass... if players dislike their product they may well shut down.

[@johnboylan3832]

I think ctrl+s will do it.

[@MasticinaAkicta]

The games this developer made were not, as you expect, but at least they know the power of narrative and characters. That is something. With enough outside help they can hone the fighting and other areas too and it might be good.

[@towinandsave1520]

exactly

[@neodav00001]

Do they? That's actually a major point of concern for me. We know they can do atmosphere, but whether they can do dialogue and characters is something I have yet to see, and that's where the original game was really spectacular. That's where they'll really need to shine, and their usual fare isn't generally known for strong, memorable characters, more for telling you *about* their characters through letters or context clues. (I'm also a little concerned for how the impending voice actor strike might impact this, given how renowned the original was for its incredible voicework. I'm fully pro-union, but I hope they can work something out there.)

[@tvrtkokaurinovic7370]

Were not what?

[@maallos334mi8]

And considering most the game was done before it got handed off, they probably don’t have to worry about RPG mechanics too much.

[@sv_1407dl]

@@tvrtkokaurinovic7370ikr 😭 sentences make no sense these days

[@magecraft2]

My thought on the Elder front is that if you are a newly wakened elder it could take awhile for you to remember your powers and strengths. So normally a Elder may well take a decade after waking to get back up to speed say (not sure if this is the case long time since I have played VtM) you are forced into action while still not ready. This could have you developing as you flesh out your character by remembering as you play effectively.

[@thefrisianviking28]

I hope we start somewhere in the middle ages as a fully powered elder. A prologue of sorts. Then something happens and you're thrown into the present. A bit like redemption.

[@LuizOtavioZen]

300 years would make the Elder a fledgeling during the 18th century around the time Prussia came to be, one could argue for a prologue during the french revolution or the united states war of idependance but middle ages is too far back.

[@rylian21]

They're 300 years old, so some time in the early 1700s.

[@armelior4610]

Playing an elder could be really interesting. As much as I love the 1st one, you were basically an errand boy/girl from the start, only choosing for whom you worked towards the end. By contrast, a recently awoken elder is powerful but weakened and has to rebuild his influence, so it means having agency but also having to compromise with other elders. It could even mean you don't really fight directly except for maybe some bosses... I don't know the other games from those devs, but if they do something like Disco elysium with minimal or no physical combat, an elder is a good choice.

[@Czermet666]

I think it's a good sign that the developers are concerned with the quality of their product that we didn't just get shipped whatever was made whenever it was remotely ready back in 2020. It seems like we're actually going to get something polished when it's finally done... but who knows until we actually get it... we'll see. Because the developer's company are really relying on this being a success. I don't believe a mediocre performance will really cut it for them.

[@JackieDaytona01]

The one thing I’m disappointed about is that with the Original story from Hard Suits was that character creation you could give your character a backstory that could affect the game! Like in your previous life you were a police officer before becoming a vampire and because of that police in the game would react to you different.

[@Pedone_Rosso]

An elder who possibly got his centuries long nap perturbed by some event, and therefore stripped of most of their powers. When the skill progression is interpreted as the protagonist progressively regaining their full strength. Not bad as a frame for role-playing in this game's universe, I think. At least when you're in the shoes of an established character, instead then the completely blank slate character that usually marks the highest level of RP freedom. Will the VtM: Bloodlines' curse prevail once again, or will we eventually get to play the second chapter of the story? Thanks for your videos!

[@dls3939]

Yeah that's what I was thinking regarding progression/skills.

[@ZechsMerquise195]

Indeed. I was thinking something very similar. The torpor has weakened you substantially. But with enough time and blood you should be able to regain your strength across the game. I am also looking forward to the roleplay aspect of playing an elder.

[@wampyrelli]

@@ZechsMerquise195 It might also be fun to pretend that you have your full strength in some of the conversations. :D

[@robertgronewold3326]

I could see the thinblood mass embrace still even being a thing in relation to this new main character concept. You wake up after years of torpor, lost, weak and suddenly being accused of being a thinblood because you don't have massive powers.

[@vladdy8493]

I was also thinking along the lines of you getting woke up by someone diablerizing you and you manage to fend them off but it left you in a weakened state, maybe later in the game you can return the favour and get some of your abilities back.

[@odinborrson]

I would be very happy if this turns out decent but I expect nothing at the moment.

[@MissElleHerself]

same. i'm essentially thinking, you have my money already. please just deliver a passable game.

[@ras_alhim]

I really hope they got this back on track, but it's wild to think about that this was supposed to release in early 2020😅

[@mjdayetube]

Bloodlines 1 has one of the most creepy/disturbing settings I've experienced. Hopefully this new studio can compete with the original.

[@TotalEclipse856]

I so wish this game could eventually surprise me by being good, but I doubt it.

[@Czermet666]

Personally I've got more confidence in an inexperienced studio who've yet to build their name, than I have in established studios which are more concerned with appeasing their corporate investors than they are with satisfying their customers.

[@TotalEclipse856]

@@Czermet666 I like your perspective!

[@synque7296]

​@@Czermet666who says a niche studio is any less under the corporate boot than an established one?

[@rosscalhoun3389]

I think its pretty easy to have a young vampire be powerful in VtM, don't make them a thinblood but make their progenitor fairly low generation instead. That way you start out "weak" in that you don't have much experience, but with a low generation your ceiling for power is high. Perfect for leveling from noob to city-shaker.

[@rylian21]

I believe that was the case in the original. I read recently that your character in Bloodlines was 8th Generation, which is a pretty crazy place to start from in the modern nights.

[@bigego503]

Would love both to play the sequel and to see the original ported to a console for a new generation to experience. Will we? As you said, tempered hopes. Good vid

[@patrickmcpartland1398]

Dude the original hardly works on PC with out fan patches.

[@bigego503]

@@patrickmcpartland1398 I know. If VTM2 gets released there is a chance that, when they bring it to console they might actually fix it. I have been frustrated off the original 4 times. Hope to play one day before die. If I live that long.

[@theo_junk]

What is so strange about this is that there is little mention of what type of game this is now. When it was first announced back in 2018-19, it was clearly stated to be a descendant of the original; definitely an RPG, mechanically similar to the original, and heavily inspired by it. That was the main draw of the game, IMO: Some of the original team was back to work their magic and put out the long-awaited sequel. But to go all that time, constantly saying "it's coming, don't worry it looks great so far! We are sure it's gonna be good! Just give it time!", only to show off a minute and 30 seconds of a quick cut teaser, with very little fanfare as opposed to when it was originally announced, is so strange to me. Like, I thought the whole reason they were tanking the original sequel was because TCR had some incredible pitch; don't they want to make up for the lost time and win some people over again?

[@jonathonpolk3592]

​@@Mkrause762well the original introduction promised rpg mechanics, but the gameplay vids showed none of it. The game looked more like an FPS with superpowers. I suspect that part of why Paradox nixed the original was due to lack of rpg mechanics. So the new system is probably an improvement.

[@ThePlayer920]

It was the main draw until it was revealed how fucking shit the premise is. I don't know if Mitsoda had lost his touch or White Wolf was giving him too little creative control, but starting out as a thinblood was a horrible idea. Even if you do get to commit diablerie (which is supposed to be a huge taboo in vampire society) in the first few hours, you would still end up being a 10th gen vampire at best. Which, compared to the original protagonist, means a smaller blood pool and a long cast time for abilities that cost more than one blood point.

[@lavenderwyvern]

@@ThePlayer920 Do thinbloods not absorb the generation of the one they diablerize like regular vamps do?

[@ThePlayer920]

​@@lavenderwyvernNo, not even regular vampire work like that. You usually move down by one generation, the only exception is when there's a large enough generation difference. For example, in the official lore an 11th gen Assamite neonate tried to diablerize a 4th gen Ventrue methuselah. Not only did the Ventrue end up mentally overpowering the Assamite and taking control of his body, but his new generation was now 6th. In other words, if a 14th gen thinblood drained a 9th gen vampire and didn't end up being possessed in the process, his new generation would probably be 11th at best.

[@wholesome1844crucifier]

Besides being a VtM RPG, what exactly else did it have in common with the first game? *One* of the writers had returned? Brian Mitsoda is a washed-up has-been just like Josh Sawyer and Kev Levine. The real masterminds behind the original were Jason Anderson and Leonard Boyarski, and they were never on board with the sequel.

[@rickc-arelsii6276]

I'm cautiously optimistic. I'd have liked to play as a thin blood, but elder it is. The one thing I'm really happy about is their hiring of Jersh (Josh from Strange Adventures on KZbin) as their community manager. At least one person I'm familiar with is involved and actually plays VtM. Looking forward to your take(s) on this game in about a year, Mortym.

[@Baraz_Red]

Considering that they rebuilt (reiterated) over an entire game, I am hopeful and excited to see what they created. I hate how it was done though: senior writers and other employees, who were huge fans of the series for years, suddenly lost their project after over five years of work... **without any explanation or forewarning!** Really callous management, in the way it was done I mean (maybe the overall decision was good; I cannot say).

[@joel5956]

There has been so much turnover at The Chinese Room since they made Everybody's Gone to the Rapture that it's almost a new studio. I believe they laid everybody off after Rapture and then I'd have to assume they later staffed up way larger than ever before to make something like Bloodlines 2. That said, it still sounds crazy that they're going from the minimalism of Dear Esther to the maximalism of an action RPG.

[@josephmassaro]

I'm cautiously optimistic, but very interested in the idea of playing as an elder vampire. In some ways, it's like the first Bloodlines, which had a ton of cheat codes you could use to pump up your stats and abilities. Sometimes it's fun to be the king. It's a wait and see.

[@neodav00001]

I actually think I can see how the elder thing could work. Your plot hook is "how'd you wind up in torpor and is someone still after you," along with all the factions wanting you on their side, your age means you're ignorant of the modern power dynamics, and the leveling up is justified as "you lost your power, but you're gradually regaining it as you go," rather than a fledgling growing impossibly powerful in a few nights like Bloodlines 1 had.

[@josephmassaro]

@neodav00001 Maybe you were partially diablerized and your powers are compromised.

[@Haan22]

@@neodav00001 Yes, it sounded like the pc has been on ice for a long time, so that seems the most logical way to go about it.

[@rylian21]

There were cheat codes to pump up other things too. LOL. God, looking back on that, it's kinda yikes, but still funny.

[@auronwatson2477]

Playing an elder is a few orders of magnitude better than a damn thinblood. That said, I don't particularly have any hope for this game being a worthy successor to Bloodlines. I'll be glad if it turns out to be a fun experience, for sure, but given that it's 5th edition, and that most writers these days are frankly bad at creating subtle and immersive experience -- I can't expect much.

[@Wintermist-SWE]

So much chaos around that game I'm definately not confident it will shape up to much...

[@chanm01]

_Now_ I see why Paradox chose to keep the identity of the dev under wraps. It's not like the Chinese Room is a complete unknown, but... well ask anyone who still cares about Bloodlines 1 in 2023 who they'd want to develop a sequel and I don't think a single person would name the Chinese Room. That said, if Bloodlines 2 turns out to be a super atmospheric walking simulator with good RPG elements, I'd be okay with that. But if that's the case I just hope the combat elements don't get in the way.

[@kronim1624]

This news has gotten me from being a cautious optimist to a BL2 skeptic. Playing as a semi-established character, and an elder on top of that is not something I'm excited about, as I'd much rather have free reign to make my own character. I highly doubt the studio's capabilities or even interest in making this an RPG with a branching narrative, compelling choices and immersive sim style approaches to scenarios etc, all that stuff. HSL's version looked really unpolished but you knew that's the kind of game they were trying to make, and we don't know yet if the Chinese Room has the same priorities.

[@tmzFRM]

I haven't played WoD since the late 90's/early 2000's but from what I remember a 300 years old vampire would probably be around the 10th or even 11th generations. Considering your generation creates a ceiling to your power, but you only achieve it trough experience, I think it's a sweet spot for a video game if you wanna create a character that is expected to be relevant but not overpowered.

[@TypausZuendorf]

the biggest problem for VtM: Bloodlines 2 is that it is not Larians next projekt.

[@lavenderwyvern]

could you imagine!!

[@eternalfaeri1415]

My first thought when I saw the announcement was “I wonder how long it’ll take Mort will make a video about it” lol, you’ve become my favourite KZbinr by far.

[@aztralsea]

I'm cautiously optimistic, looking forward to hearing more about it

[@usov656]

Hoping for the best. This is one project I've been really looking forward to, as much as BG3 even. If this one turns out good (not even great, just overall good) then this will have been a very good year for RPGs indeed. The action part looks way better, and I really hope they manage to nail the power fantasy. In the first bloodline, the way your power increases exponentialy through the game is something that appealed a lot to me. You start as a normal vampire that can be taken out by a bunch of armed goons, and eventualy become an absolute monster that can clear an entire room of full kit swat teams with machine guns without breaking a sweat. Really, the power increase through the game is so great that to this day fans are still trying to come up with lore reasons as to why the bloodlines protagonist is so absurdly powerful. By the late game you're easily on the level of an elder vampire.

[@Dank_Engine]

Starting as a thin blood and diablerizing my way to greatness seems more interesting than just starting out at max level, but different strokes

[@Valkod23]

Nah, with the way VtM works, that scenario would never have worked since everyone would have wanted you dead for the crime of being both a Thinblood and a Diablerist (the Sabbat are fine with the latter however).

[@jonathonpolk3592]

I liked the concept too, but they probably reversed on this because it broke too much canon lore. Thin bloods just can't gain Clan abilities, membership, and identity from diablerie. And as Valkod said, everyone would probably want to kill you for committing diablerie (even if permissible due to a blood hunt, i dont think the privilege to participate in the hunt would be extended to a thin blood). So although I liked the original premise, I can understand why it was cancelled.

[@ThePlayer920]

You clearly don't know much about the lore if you think that thinbloods, even those that commit diablerie, have a high power ceiling. An elder is the better option since it's easier to justify your character's rapid power growth

[@Dank_Engine]

@@ThePlayer920 Well, acktually... You win. I haven't played a tabletop V:TM game in decades. I also read some of the WoD novels in middle school, but I appear to have moved on with my life. That said, it's good to know hardcore enjoyers are keeping the fandom alive. Thanks for correcting me on some throwaway comment I forgot I made. Someone's gotta keep the normies in line. Adios

[@ThePlayer920]

@@Dank_Engine Why thank you! Although, to be fair, all you had to do to reach a similar conclusion was play the first game. I really hope you get around to playing it before the sequel is out :^)

[@n.henzler50]

I have no problem with the "re-awakened elder" as a concept. It sounds like they plan on handling it in a similar manner to the way torpor works in Vampire the Requiem, where long periods of inactivity cause a vampire to bleed off (heh) a lot of their power, leaving them on the same level as most neonates, aside from decades or centuries of additional experience. That said, I have very little confidence that this game will emerge from all its troubles with its soul intact.

[@Learned_English_Dog]

Games like Dear Esther actually have a lot in common with some of the more memorable quests from Bloodlines 1. For example, Calling Dr Grout is a fan favourite for its very florid writing. Chinese Room excels at a kind of literary style, quite elevated by video game standards. I think there's a good shot that this thing comes together nicely on a story level if nothing else. And to be honest, Bloodlines 1 has gameplay that one endures rather than enjoys, for the most part. I will happily suffer through another janky game to get more of that story and atmosphere I love.

[@medalgearsalad1419]

I just want this game to have strong RPG quests/dialog/mechanics for immersion purposes. EDIT: So just watched the whole video and I dont think this might be my cup of tea. I enjoyed the original game because you could take your time talking to NPCs, explore, you were a silent protagonist so my choices felt more personal. Guess I'll replay the original for old times sake.

[@voiceofreason1098]

On the change of the narrative. I find it hard to imagine how you can build a consistently compelling VTMB sequel for being an Elder vampire. Elder vampires don't run around doing all sorts of jobs for club owners, pawn shop and drug dealers, ex-models etc while various quests like these played huge role in the original game's appeal. I hope they won't make the awoken Elder an errand boy, but I doubt you can make a VTMB experience without low-profile jobs.

[@lordofentropy]

I want so much for it to be good, but expectations are pretty low. It's been such a cluster so far and obviously Paradox wants to stop throwing money at it; I'm sure Paradox had put enough money in that they didn't want to walk away completely with nothing after canning Hardsuit Labs-but, it's unlikely they handed it The Chinese Room and said, "we really believe in this, here's a huge check to make a great game." It's more likely they asked several studios, "what can be salvaged and how much will it cost to turn it into something that can be released?" I'm sure they got responses rangingfrom, "not touching that with a 10-foot pole"; to, "have to start from the ground up and 50+ million"; to, "we had to layoff all our employees a few years back and it was just the cofounders writing code-we'll do it if you stock our fridges and pay our utilities." Guess which one they chose. That's not to disparage The Chinese Room, but it's just unlikely they were given a blank check and a ton of flexibility to make a great game. It's more likely they were told something along the lines of, "we'll give you 2 years and like 5 million dollars to make something out of this mess-that's the only offer, no negotiations."

[@XoRandomGuyoX]

The problem I see with the footage shown is that it's basically looking like a clunky beat 'em up where you fight a half dozen enemies in largely empty arenas. There's almost nothing to suggest gameplay choice the way people would expect from RPGs. I wouldn't even be surprised if it turned out to be a series of cutscenes connecting battle segments. That is to say, a game like Remnant From the Ashes might have more RPG mechanics than "Bloodlines 2".

[@coconutologist]

We'll see. I've been surprised by the RPG mechanics some devs have produced. There's something magical about thinking of the most absurd for you character to be able to do, and then being able to do it. Onward to 300k. All glory to the algorithm.

[@sodapopinksi667]

No one wants it to be bad. Everyone expects it to be bad. If the rpg systems feel too light and generic, its gonna bomb.

[@AJCrowley0153]

Any chance there was mention of the new studio reversing course on the boneheaded decision by the original devs to drop the third person view and make it first person only?

[@lavenderwyvern]

If it's first person only that will be the final nail in the coffin for me.

[@AJCrowley0153]

@@lavenderwyvernwell they definitely confirmed first person only back when the original devs were working on it. I was hoping maybe new devs will change that but it's a slight hope.

[@wholesome1844crucifier]

A third person camera was already a terrible idea in the first game. It made guns unusable and diminished the atmosphere in areas like the haunted hotel.

[@AJCrowley0153]

@@wholesome1844crucifier you're wrong, guns were fine and it's not only a superior perspective, it's also an accessibility feature as fp causes headaches and/or nausea for many people

[@lavenderwyvern]

@@AJCrowley0153 Yep, first person games are unplayable for me due to making me ill- even changing FOV doesn't work for me. I always play Bloodlines in 3rd person.

[@kaposztapower3721]

I gave up on this game years ago. But since i don't have the budget to get either Bg3 or Starfield yet i just dug up Bloodlines recently and it still feels awesome. Ah man i wish Troika still existed. 😔

[@yy-hj4br]

At first I was turned off by the news, but really this could be a good thing. Back in the day before the late 00's studios used to branch out into different genres quite regularly. Bloodlines is still a narratively heavy game, these guys are known for narratively heavy games, why not? I just hope they are able to bring in the RPG elements and branching approach to narrative that isnt normally a part of walking Sims. Cautiously optimistic.

[@DrBockNstein]

I hope this turns out good I loved vtmb one but I wouldn't hold my breath until you are staring at the main menu.

[@wearegeekoclock]

Definitely hope to see the system used in the ttrpg somehow. As someone that plays the tabletop and who played the older games, I pray this goes well.

[@MissElleHerself]

oh WE'RE the elder? that's intriguing.

[@alexandra_efrimova]

The only thing I hope for that it could be possible to play from 3 person

[@Jeffmetal42]

As much as I was excited for a new VTMB, I have 0 hope for this to be anything that is a worthy sequel to the first game. Everything that's happened w it has killed any kind of excitement I had when it was initially announced. I hope I'm wrong but I'm going in now w no expectations, so if it's not good, I've already pulled the band-aid off. 😮‍💨

[@dhdurhueur-qe5pn]

A lot of people don't remember this but the original game had a equally tumultuous development cycle.

[@simondaniel4028]

@@dhdurhueur-qe5pn "Equally tumultuous" is woefully incorrect. It had problems, but not to this scale.

[@cursedmonkey1033]

I'm glad you covered this. I thought the fact that you play an established, older character was stupid because I can't see how it would work as an RPG which are about progression and getting more powerful. But you made a very good point that I hadn't considered. Would you happen to know why the original developers were fired? It seems incredible to me that the publishers were willing to just flush tens of millions of dollars, and years of work down the toilet. Not to mention the excitement and buzz the trailer had generated. How can any company sustain that kind of waste and expect to just keep going? How successful will this game have to be in order to make a profit after that kind of loss? Couldn't they have said ok these guys just aren't going in the direction we want, so we'll tell them just to wrap up what they've got, release it for $40 and we'll get this other studio to make the main game?

[@Gingerlocks35]

Hopefully it turns out good, been replaying redemption and bloodlines. Ready for something new.

[@88Renji88]

I like that we play an elder instead of a thin blood. Trailer didn't get me pumped for the game though. Looks like an action flick then a dark RPG storytelling.

[@Kjell777Iverson]

I'm at a loss to explain why any of the bigger studios haven't approached White Wolf about the idea of creating a World Of Darkness MMO. Ghouls. Vampires. Werewolves. Vampire hunters. Clans and guilds, etc etc. The original Vampire The Masquerade: Redemption lived far past it's shelf life just because of it's multiplayer and mod support. There is a market out there, and I don't understand why it hasn't been seized yet. I remember years ago hearing about a V:TM mmo, but I believe that too ended up canceled.

[@frankb5728]

I loved the Dear Esther HL mod for the narration and was impressed by what they managed to do with the retail release. It's not much of a game but the presentation was incredible. I don't know how much I trust them when it comes to an actual gameplay heavy game. I really enjoyed the original Bloodlines game so I have some expectations, I'll admit that I did not follow the behind the scenes drama so my interest wasn't too high and I managed to keep my expectations low. The reveal trailer really didn't pique my interest at all. IMO the best case scenario is that we get a game that is somewhat similar to Dishonored in gameplay.

[@GKiernan01]

Please, PLEASE let this be good. I know it probably won't be, but please PLEASE let this be good. The first is one of my favorite games, and World of Darkness is one of my favorite TTRPGs. I really, REALLY want this to be good

[@DragonmasterCire]

Interesting that they would make the shift. If you are a vampire of 300 how will the Beckoning affect you. In Swansong; Galeb was consistently fighting the pull of the Beckoning. Galeb was also 300+ years old. Likewise how is the interactions with technology going to be? Usually older vampires are not a fan of tech, more so after the Second Inquisition forced them to burn SchreckNet

[@dennisquinn8622]

Don't have high hopes but I'll keep an eye on this game. I just hope they don't change it into some first person action adventure game.

[@alexkt3400]

Honestly I'm excited this game is being built by a studio with experience in atmospheric games! White Wolf's RPG rules are very well defined and should be making the process easier, at least.

[@vikenemma2953]

I love vampire the masquerade and do play the tabletop game. But I am super cautious about the game, the recent vampire games have been pretty hit or miss. I hope it doesn't get delayed again.

[@TempestMia]

I don't see the Thin Blood thing as having been a problem. It would be an interesting story point to have you commit diablerie to become full-fledged.

[@betchersgland7236]

I ain't got no hype since they did that genious move and threw Mitsoda out, but I'll probably try it at some point... On the Elder's progression and difficulty thing - they're just gonna play the "rusty after torpor" card. It was usually methuselahs, but it's been known to happen that very old kindred aren't as powerful after a long torpor as they used to be and need to shake the cobwebs off. And that will be the progression.

[@davidludwig7501]

The trailer was cool. I will give it a try. Vampires are cool. Need more vampire games.

[@petehall8381]

Wait and see on a game with as troubled of a dev cycle as Bloodlines 2. I appreciate your level takes on gaming in general.

[@paddya3304]

I know I shouldn't get my hopes up, this looks like one of those cautionary tales about games that get stuck in development hell, but I can't help but think how good this could potentially be (based on nothing more than how good the original was/could've been if it wasn't released as a buggy mess). Not one that I would risk pre-ordering. Thanks for the continuing coverage, Mortismal.

[@HisShadow]

Being an Elder would actually allow the gameplay be lore friendly. You could say that when you wake up from your slumber you're weak. Then as the game goes on and you "level up" your just slowly getting your strength back.

[@mjnior]

Played tabletop roleplaying game since 1st edition. Elder in U.S. would only be couple hundered years old. Strong yes. All powerful not so much. A character could start 8th generation in the ttrpg. Believe me an 8th generation is quite killable.

[@betchersgland7236]

There were plenty of kindred running around Americas before colonization and some really old farts moved after too. Considering this is based on V5 though, yeah, it's probably gonna be a Galeb from Swansong sort of "elder". Around 300 tops.

[@alvinchristmas]

I think a gameplay reveal could really help settle the fanbase, but I'm assuming it will be a while before we see any official gameplay in action.

[@-BlazeK-]

In terms of games before bloodlines you had redemption. Where you controlled a freshly turned crusader by a brujah. Halfway trough the game your character goes in to slumber and awakens in early 2000's. He awoke weaker than when he went to sleep. So an old vampire doesn't automatically mean powerful.

[@RaizelSX]

I feel like they are going to use the good old reset the powers trick, like maybe have the vampire we play lose their memory be infected by sometning that reset the powers. I do want to be all poeerful and just be challenged in a more pizzle like way, than physical way, this way you'll have to be more innovative with the powers

[@Whattobecalled]

In the trpg its always a challange for me too portray an elder that just woke up. Now this might not be a problem in a pc-game. But still you have slept for a very long time and come from another age. Not only this but you on top of that have substiantial time as a vampire. Too learn about vampire life. And too learn your vampire powers etc. Now poof you wake up in modern times. Socity is so different. Its values, its laws, transportation and science even vampire poletics will have changed. Curious too see how Chinese room bridges all of this.

[@rezokiladze2334]

You were even one of the first commentators on the trailer xD

[@MortismalGaming]

Yeah I was watching the announcement live, like I said I'm a VtM fan

[@rezokiladze2334]

Same here. Even making my own indie VTM crpg@@MortismalGaming

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

Let's hope this game deliver its promises!

[@GonzaloAPH]

I just hope they keep the feel of the first one and the freedom of choice in our character, actions and decisions. The fact that we are playing an "established character" kind of scares me, above everything else

[@KilobyteD]

I have to wonder, if this game didn't carry the specific title "Bloodlines 2" I think people would be way more excited about it. If they marketed this as an original standalone game from the Chinese Room, I think people would have a lot more interest, and maybe not have such high expectations?

[@fleeb198]

Still think starting as a thinblood would have been a better story

[@JaxWylds]

My faith is strong and I have performed the sacrificial rites. Make this happen, make it good (please)!

[@pnastysavage5510]

As long as we build our character backround and stats, the elder vampire story could work.

[@lavenderwyvern]

I'm seeing a Werewolf The Apocalypse: Earthblood, VtM edition in our future. Outstar clarified on Twitter calling it an 'action RPG', which imo is very different from a classic RPG. The biggest thing about VtM is the feeling of powerlessness the players have in the face of oppressive elders. I'm not excited about this at all, but we will see. I hope to be proven wrong.

[@kemonngo3106]

I'm still excited for this game honestly. VTMB is my favorite game ever so I can't help but be hopeful lmao

[@xani666]

Honestly them focusing on random combat scenes doesn't reassure me much.

[@FernasRPG]

Is it confirmed that you are going to play as Elder? If true that does not seem a good idea.

[@thehatter9400]

If they can ptovide what bloodlines 1 gave and then more ill be happy. Though its going to be very intresting with all the clans, how would an elder nosferatu be like? How much power do you start out with? Or is it a journy to recover your full strength? Who are the survivors of this attack that awaken you? Who apposed them?

[@Shamino1]

Hardsuit labs spent 5 years laying the ground work and getting combat set up. Chinese Room has come in within a year and REALLY tightened the combat animations, atmosphere, and they are known for character and narrative driven games. Hardsuit Labs was known for ONE decent shovel-ware game on the XBox 360, over 10 years ago. If Hardsuit labs did the hard work (for Chinese Room) of building the combat and leveling mechanics and Chinese Room is here to tighten it all up into a cohesive World of Darkness narrative, then this game might actually get saved.

[@tehjass]

I was so sure that Harebrained Schemes was the secret developer: Paradox acquired them in 2018, they are based in Seattle and have a history of RPGs (shadowrun trilogy). It all lined up! Maybe Chinese room have what it takes, but for now I'll remain skeptical. I liked Dear Esther, but didn't like their interpretation of Amnesia, and I have yet to play their other games. Fingers crossed I suppose.

[@muhammadakmal1244]

wow its been a while since i heard news about bloodline 2. Really hope they can make the sequel happen because i really love playing the first one

[@Cynndora]

Surprised this game even got salvaged with all the issues surrounding it. Wish them the best because the odds are certainly against them, i would love to see either this game do well or indeed other RPG's in this setting get made.

[@Shikao87]

I am still rubbed the wrong way by firing of Mitsoda, but since it's not really The Chinese Room's fault I am willing to give them a benefit of the doubt, i.e. I will continue to watch all videos you make on the subject

[@livviegoat]

This game has to deal with the additional struggle that it can't just be a decent game. It has to be a decent game, and be in absolute lock step with the spirit of VTM: Bloodlines 1. People liked the original specifically because it was a narrative driven rpg with heavy immersive sim elements. If they don't nail that, it's not gonna be VTM:B. It'll just be some vampire game.

[@GorillaGrodd]

As much as I would love to see this succeed, as a first/third person action RPG like the first game I think at this point I would much prefer to see this in more of a CRPG style. Through out my Druid playthrough on BG3 I kept thinking how awesome it would be to play VTM in the Larian style game engine.

[@treywelch9161]

Hopefully we can get character create and 3rd person

[@tssmith1701]

Here's hoping this is good. The Elder angle could be really good. I like it better than another new freshly turned vampire take.

[@grandlancer]

The thing that gives me the most hope for this title is the recent success of BG3 as that shows to the publisher single player rpgs with immersive sim qualities are marketable.

[@AliIKarimi]

Bg3 was a game made by a proven developer, with several similar games previously released, 6 years of consistent development and 3 years of early access player feedback. I’d say any type of game developed in a similar manner would be successful.

[@gamerguy6990]

BG3 had allot more stuff to back up it being successful than this game does.

[@UlissesSampaio]

BG3 was not an immersive sim, though (like the original bloodlines was). But I get your point: there is an untapped niche for story rich games. In fact, I hope for a new immersive sim like the original.

[@theobell2002]

Ah yes, because before BG3 ..singleplayer RPGs totally weren't marketable. lol

[@grandlancer]

@@theobell2002 EA specifically said that previously.

[@schemage2210]

The announcement of the new "release date" and studio that has been working on this, has got to be a good sign though. Paradox has stuck with the project, surely they wouldn't have released these details if they weren't confident.

[@Potatoespotate]

I don't think we are the Elder. The woman in the trailer is, she perhaps made us a vampire

[@imjustsomeguy5048]

You play as an elder, they confirmed that in the interviews.

[@chriseggroll]

Glad they changed it from being a thinblood, being an elder should be fun. I still hope it's gonna be good but we'll see

[@lexyp155]

Mortim do you mind covering "Broken Roads" that would be awesome!

[@MortismalGaming]

I have already, Ill review it when it launches

[@Jughulator]

Doing deep RPG's is difficult, I expect the worse but rooting for this game and the studio.

[@fantazjo]

i wanted previous version to be canceled and all work on it completely removed this new one seems to be inspired by second part of vampire the masquerade redemption i have huge bag of scepticism ready but until some more important marketing materials gets released i have nothing to complain about