VW Secondary Air Problems P0411

After spending a load of cash at the dealer, this VW owner still had the Check Engine Light come on with a P0411-Secondary Air Insufficient Flow detected.
Let's see if we can track down the issue on this high-performance Euro machine!
Enjoy!

[@Clete88]

I certainly can't fault you for showing us who the actual VW dealer was......they earned the recognition on this botched job. Nice work, and keep the vids coming!

[@TheK24Kyle]

If i owned the car i would be sitting in the service managers office with this youtube video asking for my money back or a call to the local media.

[@thecrittergitter7576]

AMEN!!!

[@Tedybear315]

Ghesss.... That's why we call it the "Stealership".... Those plastic pipes can and do break all the time. For a shop to miss that it's in-excusable. Have the owner of this car talk with VW's customer care, the national or regional office for a full refund. Skip the dealership as all they will do is B/S

[@ecoandypandy]

This is exactly what was wrong with my 2007 Rabbit. Two pipes in fact. Thank you for posting.

[@ikemen1]

Car repair #101!!!!! Never go to a dealer.........

[@dil6969]

Depends on the dealer, but most techs at dealers make absolutely no money off of diagnostics, so the system provides no incentive for proper diag. You spend 4 hours on diag and only get paid 2.0, that's unsustainable, especially if you have a lot of expenses. A lot of dealers are frought with red tape and bullshit that techs have to navigate in order to survive. Just another example of businesses chasing the almighty dollar down the drain.

[@jahraven]

Exact same make/model exact same problem and exact same location. Thank you for sharing. This video saved me time and money.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Nice! Glad I could help!

[@bryguydna172]

Perfect fix...my CEL has been fixed. The break in my hose was right after the hose retainer clip on the side of the engine. A 1/2" rubber garden hose inserted perfectly and taped down with black hockey tape ( Canada Eh!) Thanks mate!

[@GarthGoldberg]

The dealer could give him a new hose for free. That would be partial compensation.

[@nikkojones2784]

I agree, being the hose is under $30. Now with that said those hoses get very brittle over time & break off if you look at them wrong.

[@siucbset]

LawSuit: I think the dealer should be sued. Just because the dealer replaced the wrong parts does not mean the customer should have to pay.

[@wacio]

Good luck with this... Its like suing the feds for charging you tax and not delivering on promises.

[@vipecrx]

Move to Europe...

[@Carlitosway211]

Lol! Yeah, good luck with that. The doctors at the hospital still get paid when they're wrong. Guarantee YOU still get paid when you're wrong. People and their sue happy bullshit....

[@retroguitarmaster]

$620...jesus, parts changers are the cancer of dealerships, people need to stop thinking about dealerships as the eminence in their respective brands, most of the time you get a technician flagging hours like crazy on brake jobs and recalls, so when he gets a problem like this, where you need to use the brain for a second, its too much hassle so he'll start throwing parts and clearing codes until it doesn't come back or the client notices what a hack he is, i suggest if you take your car to a dealership, or any shop for that matter, talk to the person that's gonna look at it to see if its a competent, honest technician like ivan here or eric at SMA, that move might save you thousands in the long run

[@DjCreekboy]

Thanks for sharing my son had this same issue. We did the visual inspection like you mentioned and found out broken plastic hose. Saved us a trip to the mechanic!

[@rp5029]

nice diag! my fix would've been a plastic bottle a little larger than the hose(maybe a 16.9oz pepsi bottle) with top and bottom cut off. sleeve the broken pipe and use heat gun like heat shrink.

[@sixpacksandsrts9122]

Awesome Ivan. I have included that self healing rescue tape in my arsenal. It's awesome. It repairs broken hoses. Withstands pressures etc..... One brand is rescue tape. I got a roll at Home Depot Nashua brand. Stretch and seal. It is a self fusing repair tape Stretches 300% and no sticky residue. Check it out. ;)

[@607perkins]

May not be a botched job at all. Well, no, I'm wrong. Partly a botched job for sure. The plastic pipes are notoriously brittle, and there was a darn good chance that pipe was intact until a mechanic twisted on it to get it off the valve. I've done it. In fact, sometimes it just part of the job to replace that plastic pipe because there isn't any way your going to get that pipe off without cracking it. If the "flap" was in fact bad, they fixed the problem and simultaneously created a new problem that would set the same DTC. The thing I CAN fault the dealer on is that they didn't test their work. The same tests you used to diagnose the problem, ie, the Sec air pump actuation combined with getting your nose under the hood while the pump is running would have immediately showed the cracked pipe. Well, that's flat rate work for you! The mechanic gets paid the same whether he checks his work or not. In this case, the dealer wanted the customer to check it by driving. Sheesh. They deserve to get brow beaten over that! I found this video after just now fixing a Audi V6 in the shop that had the same code. I used the VCDS to go through the exact same tests you did. In my case, it was a perished vacuum hose from the underside of the intake that supplied vacuum to both the "flaps" solenoid and the intake manifold switchover valve. In addition, the Secondary air pump has one of the rivets that hold the case halves together has split, and there is a smallish leak (maybe 10 or 20% of the total flow) coming from there. With what I think is the main culprit fixed, if a cold start and a test drive doesn't throw the DTC, then I'm going to let the customer know the options for repairing/replacing/living with the problem of the split pump and see if the code comes back. I try to get customers to never "just live with" a CK-ENG light, as although it's not going to tell you when your low on oil, if you get a stuck injector or something like that, it could very well save a $2k+ catalytic convertor. Very much enjoy your work, and enjoy watching as a good diagnostician goes through his routine.

[@coollasice4175]

Damn. Good repair. Visual inspection for the win. If you can, find out what the customer did about the dealer's rip-off and let us know.

[@NewLevelAuto]

Also could have commanded the secondary air test to run through your basic settings. It would run the monitor for you to verify the repair quickly. 😉

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Dang it, I was wondering if the scanner had that function! Basic settings you say? I don't think the dealership bothered running that test after their repair either haha :P Thanks for the pro tip, Keith!

[@607perkins]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ivan, basic setting #77 is the sec air test. Must bring the car to full operating temp for ten min minimum.

[@wyattoneable]

May we expect a video with you and Eric? Nice job on this one. One reason I watch you (and others) is so I won't be ripped off by a dealer again. Years ago, I got stuck with a $800 computer replacement that didn't fix the problem.

[@tecnaman9097]

Go to consumeraffairs.com and have a look at Volkswagen's satisfaction rating...1.5 stars!. The tales of woe about VW owner's travails at 'the dealership' makes for interesting reading.Yep, no money in sellin cars but heaps to be made in the repair bay...would you like fries with that oil change?

[@willemstreutgers1154]

Its not only VW, you will find these partchangers everywhere. We need skilled people with common sense.

[@Alecabee]

this is a VW rabbit not a golf, right?

[@joliefazio67]

Awesome video! Would this same problem in my sons 2001 VW cabrio cause a leak? Same code coming up.

[@davemaster001]

The dealer charged him a ton of money and didnt even fix the problem. Criminal imho. There should be some legal action he can take to get some of his money back

[@SteveRichfield]

I fix plastic hoses with heat shrink tubing. It works and looks GREAT.

[@RickRay-RickRay]

Thanks! Just found and fixed the exact same issue on our 2002 Turbo Beetle.

[@headpen102]

What kind of diagnostic reader is he using?

[@Uticagreens]

Great video. My experience, in terms of dealing with upstate NY dealership repairs, is to bend over and grab my ankles so they can purge my wallet. I even got swindled when having my vehicle in for a 40K manufacturer warrantee service.

[@Docoski]

I think they should return all his money but you know they won't but the labor at least!!!!

[@JVerschueren]

One of those 'temporary fixes' which will last the lifetime of the vehicle.

[@neondiamondsaquaberry17]

Jan Verschueren yep, I taped my cracked plastic hose and it’s been fine for about 50,000 miles now , google the price just this plastic hose and you’ll know why I never will change the hose

[@smc9764]

Had another problem like this with my Audi on the PCV hoses. The hoses are really brittle and crappy, so I used some heater hose and took an exacto knife to cut those push connectors off the original hose and attached them to my heater hose with some hose clamps. Saved myself over 300 dollars, since a new PCV hose is 300+!

[@Squisheyy]

Duct tape and ingenuity, nice!!👍

[@EXOVCDS]

I've replaced a couple of those diverters and seen incorrectly fitting tubes cause issues... won't know the real story till everyone starts recording their work.

[@MattsMotorz]

Oh man this is a great video. The best repairs are the simple ones!

[@FinalStopMobileAutoTech]

nice job my man! nothing like a good visual inspection! the ability to have functional testing really shines on this one too!!

[@Gigabyte1002]

I fucking love you bro!!! I've had this error code for a long ass time on my 2007 Jetta. Finally got my hands dirty, took everything apart, and it was exactly the same issue. Seems like VW cars have this same issue because of those crap plastic tubing. I went to home depot with part of the tube, then tested plastic tubes for fixes, and; www.homedepot.com/p/ProLine-3-4-in-O-D-x-1-2-in-I-D-x-10-ft-Clear-Vinyl-Tubing-CP034012010C/312487054 A little piece of this tube fit absolutely perfectly. Nice, tight, and wasn't budging for anything. I put a little piece in one end, then combined the tube together with it inside and then used; www.homedepot.com/p/Nashua-Tape-1-in-x-3-33-yd-Stretch-and-Seal-Self-Fusing-Silicone-Tape-in-Black-1743082/100206050 to wrap around it nice and tight. I cleared the codes with OBD2 scanner, started driving, and monitoring my i/m readiness for the drive cycles. On my scanner when air_rdy finished and got to "ok" it would always make my check engine light go on and spit the error code out. This evening it hit "ok" without the code. So far so good!! Looks like the fix was a success.

[@stashub8306]

How did that fix end up working out I have same issue?

[@catfishsnagger3284]

I never understood why you have to pay to have someone not fix your car. It's like going to get a flat tire fixed and paying to still have a flat tire when you leave. No difference it's just crazy how people get ripped off. I never trust the stealership and rarely a garage because I don't trust them. I do everything I can myself so at least I know what work has actually been done.

[@johnaclark1]

I know this is 3 years old but thanks for this, Ivan! I have a customer's 2009 Rabbit (Golf) 2.5L with a P0491 Sec Air insufficient flow code and only my Autal DS708, just like yours, to scan it with. On mine it says "Secondary air injektion system control A circuit" which I assume is the pump circuit since the next test is a switching valve A circuit, and all I heard for the pump was clicking on and off. Your comment about the pump turning on and off was very helpful in knowing what I should expect from the bidirectional test. I'm guessing the pump is seized up on this car but will dig in more tomorrow with the test light. No Verus here to get code setting criteria info from but this was more than enough to get me on the way to a quick diag on this one. Thanks!

[@kaiserc1705]

Oh that good feeling when you find the problem.!!!:) Thanks for sharing this vid 👍👍

[@Blazer02LS]

Typical... Paul just made the argument that a lot of today's techs don't check the easy stuff first, they go for the $$$$. Knowing VW pricing that hose is probably $120.00 + Have you seen the new Autel MaxiSys 906? It's the updated version of the MaxiDAS. Has the high end internals WITH a battery so you can keep info. It still uses a cable to connect.

[@randygudeahn7304]

awesome job Ivan. nice to see a VW. great repair on a great car.

[@danjensen100]

It is also possible that the plastic line was cracked during the repair at the dealership. The tech at the dealership may have fixed the original problem, but during the repair the plastic line cracked. May not have been complete incompetence.

[@davidgoliath982]

the root of the problem is the cheap ass material used for that hose. very common place. nice job my friend

[@esmith836]

sometimes it is just a good visual inspection and understanding the system! great job!

[@ahill007ny]

Wow Ivan!!! They should have called u when the dealer told them that ridiculous price. They played swaptronics and didn't fix anything :(

[@bigdaddymak1439]

There's your problem LADY!!!

[@Splashfun2000]

I was looking at another video and somebody mentioned you were like a wizard with tricky problems. I'm working on a 2004 Landrover Discovery 2 for a friend, first time I have ever worked on a Landrover and first time I have dealt with a vehicle with SAI. Check engine light is on, getting codes P1412 and P1415, wont pass emissions. SAI blower works, relay is good, SAI solenoid is good but put a new one in anyway (yes its good), vacuum looks good, I happened to notice fusible link FL2 was blown which some comments online said the SAI runs through that, replaced that, still no change, SAI doesn't come on when engine is cold or first starting, not sure where to go from here. I did jumper terminals at relay and blower came on, so wiring is okay, any ideas, I'm at a loss ?

[@colinaglae2605]

Thanx Ivan, your a genius & a great teacher!! Salaams from the UK!!

[@77chrisray]

What obdii scanner do you use?

[@MichaelPopovici]

This code popped up during my emissions check today. I am going to run through all the hoses tomorrow. Hopefully it’s the same thing and I don’t need a new air pump! Thanks for the awesome vid!

[@cunninghamcleaningcompanyl3]

was the hose your issue I have the same code

[@renn9069]

I've had terrible experience with VW-Audi dealerships throughout my life. It seems that VW doesn't take disciplinary action with dealers for low customer satisfaction (Ford is even worse, and Toyota definitely does try to keep dealers in line). Looking through my A4 and Fusion recent service records and quotes, it appears that the current labor rate is approx. $500 per hour (based on time that repairs actually take). This is the common scam with dealerships, but VW-Audi (and Ford) seem to be worse than other brands.

[@SergeiChaparin]

I had broken timing chain guides on a 2002 VR6. The dealer wanted to replace fuel injectors because there were misfires as a result of broken guides. Has anyone had an actual good experience with a VW dealer?

[@thewarzoneking]

cocky dealership boys dont ever find shit i had them fix a seat under warranties they left all bolts loose n put plastic pillar in the wrong

[@donstule]

I guess it was several problems with the system. When he tested it it probably worked. When a pipe is cracked like that it might seal sometimes, but with the engine moving it will leak. So it was probably ok when the mecanic tested it. Mabye he sould have found the crack, but its not always that easy. These cars suck. Always something with them! Why should everybody throw cardealers under the bus before they have the whole story?

[@cherylrobinson1096]

Hello. I'm having the same issue code with my VW jetta 2008 and I don't have a mechanic. Do you have a shop in Woodbridge VA? I'd sure use the help.

[@rongaither2036]

that is a sorry motor

[@Janet_Airlines802]

Moral of the story is unless you’re under warranty never take it to the VW dealership. They charge a ton of money. A lot of the time these older VW’s throw a code it’s something really stupid. I bought a b5.5 wagon. Had a light come on. The oil was dirty and causing the lift angle sensor to not read right. If I took it to dealership they would of replaced the sensor. I changed the oil and the light hasn’t been on since.

[@dejanmeki]

I got the same code this morning with other codes for miss fire P0300, 301, 303, but my Jetta sitting at 302K . first time saw that code P0411

[@SteveRobReviews]

If the code sets within a very short time , I would have to give the VW tech the edge if he never seen the code reaper , maybe the valve was shot , could the hose unluckily split after the dealership . Did they bring it back to the dealer and why not , I think for that price they would have found the hose and fixed it for free. What do you think ?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Hey Steve! It's a two-trip code, so one test drive wouldn't throw the CEL unless you looked at pending codes. But the customer told me that the dealership's next plan of attack to solve this issue was "internal engine work costing thousands of dollars"...are you kidding me?!? This system has nothing to do with the engine itself at all!

[@Clete88]

What you say is entirely possible......I don't know the story on this job, but I'd like to know was the vehicle shipped with the check engine light, or not? I think Ivan said the system does a self-test, I just don't know the frequency.. I wonder if the work done on the bill might have disturbed a rotted plastic part? The obvious thing to do here would be to return to the dealer-ship, but maybe the owner did that....

[@SteveRobReviews]

+motoYam82 Wow Buddy send the vid to VW head office in America . That's nuts. They owe her all her money back just to save face but it seems VW is faceless over the last year. LOL

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Well if the light came on the next day, I would say someone didn't "verify the repair" :)

[@stuzman52]

Unbelievable Ivan with the story of the dealership. Still wrapping my head around that one. Oh, and this video brought back some memories LOL..Nice video Ivan and keep up the good work!

Hey was wondering if you know how to get to the combi valve / EGR valve on a 2000 new beetle with the 2.0l? It is on the backside of the engine with really bad access-- not sure if windshield cowl removal would be the best way. Let me know if you have any ideas thanks Ivan

[@donalddeluca9407]

Thanks for the detailed video. I was getting P0491 couple days after DSG flush from dealership. Dealership said nothing they did. Watched this and traced the hoses and saw a broken hose right from the SAI sensor. Ended up fixing with self bonding silicone tape.

[@HUBBABUBBADOOPYDOOP]

Merely R&R the Diverter valve- Dealer TardTech couldn't tell the inlet pipe was broken (loose/cracked)? Don't they have a smoke machine? Sure- at Dealers now days- there's no money to be made with diagnosis, troubleshooting, and *actual necessary* parts replacement. I would immediately use this video as evidence, contact VW, and dispute that bill. No way they would get a dime. Were the original parts returned to the Customer (Diverter valve)? There's probably nothing wrong with it. Re install old, be prepared to bring new back if win case. "Parts Changers" make me sick.

[@ozzstars_cars]

The car owner paid $620 for incompetence. BUT could have the diverter been defective and the pipe broke secondary from all the pushing and pulling getting the new part in??

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Perhaps, but that is irrelevant in this case. However we can say for certain, based on the sequence of events and documentation, is that they did not 100% confirm a faulty diverter valve or correctly verify the repair.

[@lysavin9127]

the MK4 jetta VR6 is a bitch to work on, any work you have to do, you have to remove the bumper and drain the coolant. i hate this car.

[@youngblood8612]

Fucking dealer service suck stealing money from ours and sometime i am thinking if their mechanic are really mechanic they dont even know how to fix the car they selling .

[@chrisfreemesser5707]

Having owned two VWs in my time, the worst part of VW ownership are the dealerships. Never ever EVER go to a dealership for anything but warranty work. That car is a 2007...they should have called you or some other COMPETENT INDEPENDENT MECHANIC to fix this problem. Expensive lesson for them to have learned.

[@GohanBravo]

Thank you bruv I’ve had this issue on my 2.5 beetle

[@stephena3056]

Funny our ignorance creates a market for everything when most vehicle issues are an easy fix.

[@Jv-sr8qx]

exactly what I found on my too same deal fixed it no more issue ,, thank you very much

[@johne6081]

Can you answer a dumb question? I need to replace the inlet solenoid control valve that sends vacuum to the combi valve's control inlet. How do I safely and properly release the electrical connection? It appears to have a metal release bar on one side, but I want to handle it gently and properly instead of breaking something. Pull straight up with pliers? Pry outward?

[@johne6081]

Got it -- bonehead simple :). I just pulled out the wire clip, and unplugging the electrical connector was a cinch. Removing three 10mm bolts then allowed me to drop the triangular mounting plate for the two control solenoids out from under the intake manifold. New $75 part, and I was back in business.

[@mariusluciannan3687]

man who the hell drives that car?! at 60k miles that car should look like new, but instead is full of dents and holes, very dirty interior engine full of dust. i have a 2002 passat with 240k km and looks way much better than this.

[@Colyde25]

depends where u live too. he said they were up in New York salt and sand on the roads during the winters over years will put more wear and tear on it faster. That be my guess

[@bernardaflores1720]

Wait until you find out what VW wants for that small piece of plastic.

[@mrvic92154]

I wonder if a smoke test would help, thanks for the great video

[@1961muskrat]

which Autel scan tool you using?

[@John76546-x]

VW Good car but the dealers here in Southern California are horrible. They never seem to know what is wrong but start throwing parts at the problem until it is gone and at an incredible charge to the customer.

[@davidp5p]

What is that hose called I just checked my car and had the exact same problem

[@drdirtnap7577]

I am not o fan of dealerships, also, but try this scenario out. The secondary air injection pipe was broken AFTER the new secodary injection diverter valve was installed because the technician was in a hurry or WHILE the technician was removing it to install the secondary air diverter valve. Those plastic pipes become extremely fragile with engine heat over time. Both the divereter valve being stuck or the pipe broken will result in the same p0411 code.

[@markmurphy7022]

Thank you kind Sir for exposing Audi / VW service techs complete incompetence!!I had an Audi A4 with this exact same code P0411, the dealership changed lamda sensor, air mass flow meter, air pump and the code still kept coming on - in the end I was left with a bill of over 800 euro and the fault code still coming on!! I was at the end of my tether with Audi Ireland!I took it to a back street garage and they found the problem was also the pipe!Audi service rang me a week later, telling me they would like to get to the bottom of the problem, suggesting a complete engine overhaul for 4,500 euro!I will never buy an Audi or a VW again!

[@rick19871000]

Yup the dealer mechanic that worked on my vw couldn’t find my problem that caused my p0411. Charged me a bunch of money to.

[@1LGarcia]

Dude. I'm having the p0411 code on my 2003 beetle turbo s. Before I go replace the pump or valve, I'm going to check all those ribbed hoses. I'll let you how it turns out. Thanks

[@alexisvargas9068]

thank you so much for this video it helped me out a lot in finding where the issue was coming from. turns out that my hose was disconnected from the bottom fan underneath the throttle body. on my 2008 volkswagen jetta 2.5

[@jamesworley5073]

are you familiar with 1997 mk3 vw jettas? do you know the location of the Secondary Air Injection System Relay is?

[@laurakratz1277]

Already wached this lucky simple bad hose what would be your next move if it wouldn't of been that quick fix

[@laurakratz1277]

Help I have a 2007 VW Bug running great but its reading P0411

[@Ermal193]

The combi valve is right on top , over $ 300 for labor. If they activated the SAI pump and just listened ... Ivan's proper repair even replacing the hose assy would have been around a third of dealers, and they did not fix it🤔

[@situationmoney]

This would be a simple small claims court case with Ivan's video... I hope the owner will attempt to get his $600 refunded...

[@johne6081]

This is why you avoid dealer service departments. Do it yourself or work with a competent independent mechanic. (Both apply in my case.) Great video! Tell him to throw it back at the dealership.

[@neondiamondsaquaberry17]

Anyone can easily diagnose if the vacuum pump is working or not , simply disconnecting the hose at the valve and then starting car at cold temp and then you will feel the air being pushed out of the hose or not , if no air it’s the vacuum pump , if air is coming out it’s working and it’s either a crack in the hose like you found or a bad valve in the egr unit

[@ahmadghosheh3104]

2007 Beetle, don't have fancy scanner bit you showed me where to look and sure enough the hose came unplugged by the AIT intake before the MAF. THANK YOU

[@TexasPLNR]

Too often that is the service rendered by OEM service depts. No time for diagnosis, but ready to change a mountain of parts. Shame on VW for using such a poor tube for air delivery.

[@charwest5892]

Im sure you get comments like mine everyday, but this type of information is precisely what I needed to not make a horrible financial decision at the shop. You are the man.

[@TechOut]

Dealers rely on the computer to much they should have done what you did use it to get a area to start and then visually inspect the components of the system

[@rrmech11]

Ivan great visual inspection. Wonder when Thomas Exodus watches the video if this is a common failure.Your really going to succeed in your business.Are you going to open a shop like Eric O? I love watching your videos. Keep em coming.

[@davidhall3747]

People expect the Dealers to hire competent Technicians. Your skills prove they obviously don't.

[@wilson713]

Bad shops are bad shops, dealership or independent has very little to do with it. People aren't going to independent shops because they're happy with the service at the dealership, and people aren't coming to see me at the dealership if their independent shop is competent. I see tons of screw ups from independents, and I'm sure independent mechanics see tons of dealership screw ups.

[@kathrynhiggins5997]

My VW Beetle has this code and 2 years on no one can seem to fix it (air pump runs randomly) thank you for this video, it may help.

[@williamladue9130]

what was the time frame between repair and cel came on? did he return to dealer to ask why it came back on ? or did owner just say dealer ripped him off? yuo know that those hoses just break looking at them .so per norm lets call names with out knowing all the story

[@Jenniferde2007]

Oh and I did not go to a VW dealership. I took it to a YELP five star rated mechanic shop that everyone around here uses.

[@int53185]

That's why there is a parts store on every corner. Lots of parts changers out there. Ivan, I need one of those Autel scanners. I see the price is dropping finally.

[@dnajatrotter7408]

What tape can you use on those plastic pipes ?

[@willemstreutgers1154]

Where is the Duct tape? Costs, I guess 20 cents including labor.

[@Splashfun2000]

Which MaxiDas are you using ?

[@FooShiestyOG]

Thanks for the help jeff

[@jusdriftinggg]

What type of code reader do you have?