Walter Block - Prostitution

[@chasethomas6666]

This channel keeps slipping me major red pills

[@stevemcgee99]

BLOCK ROCKS! so happy to see Walter on LibertyPen!

[@centurion180ad]

....and it's even farther from the 19th century American dance hall.

[@Arnarstyrb]

"We need not be able to sell moral responsibility in order to justify voluntary slavery. Voluntary slave contracts have only to do with property rights over humans, not metaphysical issues. If the agents of law witness a master forcibly confining a slave to the plantation and/or whipping him, may they legitimately stop him? This is the real question involving voluntary slavery; matters of guilt, responsibility, etc., are only secondary at best." -Walter Block.

[@calctube]

It's not at all whether you approve or disapprove of prostitution. It's whether you think it's worth the costs (higher taxes, new laws, black markets, court time/costs, police resources, foregone opportunity costs) that come with trying to stop it- and whether it's worth it in spite of not actually being able to stop it.

[@LucisFerre1]

We see this played out in even the very small scale in Thailand. An open-air beer bar can employ as few as 5 or 6 working girls. The "girls" seek the safety of contracting with the bar (people around, lots of lights, pleasant company, can say no to a creep without fear, some menial pay if no customers...), and patrons seek out the bars for THEIR own safety too. If the 'girls' cause problems, there will be consequences to the bar, so the bar screens and culls the girls accordingly.

[@82abhilash]

Its legal in Nevada folks. And safe too.

[@RPMechanics]

I wasn't suggesting that at all. Only pointing out a possible outcome.

[@gullestav]

I applaud your tolerance and respect for individualism even though I stand very far from you religiously- you are truly an inspiration to all religious people.

[@TheJediSlayer7]

The argument for prostitution is not a complicated one that needs this kind of elaboration. If you own your body, which is your property, you own the rights to sell that property to whomever you wish to sell it to at whatever price you deem fair.

[@LucisFerre1]

"voluntary slavery" is a contradiction in terms, like four-cornered triangles. People who play & pretend at "voluntary slavery" know that the "sub" or "bottom" is actually in the power position, with all the safe words and having agreed to what is agreeable and what isn't before play begins.

[@aramagoo]

Throughout the history prostitution has been legalized and prohibited many times,and it keeps coming back to prohibition.The question is "why". As recently as the 1970's prostitution laws were not enforced in major American cities-that lasted barely five years.Just from the point of expense the laws would have been abolished if they were stopping a benign activity.

[@LucisFerre1]

[[The argument that 'prostitution should be banned due to cases of involuntary prostitution' is only as strong as the argument that 'labour should be banned due to cases of involuntary labour']] - Very insightful. Thumbs up.

[@JustRaynd]

To the degree that the prostitution is voluntary, so is the degree to which it is permissible. This is the case with any vocation.

[@aramagoo]

Because the game of indulgence and restriction has been going on for three thousand years and some kind of tax on service would raise much more money,local public debt is very incomplete explanation to the current state of affairs.

[@fzqlcs]

Prostitution should be a moral issue (individual choice), not a legal issue (collective force).

[@aramagoo]

The fines are usually between one and three hundred dollars,if they don't make arrests and issue mail-in tickets the cities make a little money.On the other hand the police over-time,which is pensionable can be considerable,and legal fees going to public defenders mount up very quickly.Arrests and trials are very expensive,but there can be kick-backs.

[@TheLawRival]

"No State shall...pass any...Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts...." ARTICLE I, SECTION 10, CLAUSE 1 Prostitution may be illegal BUT not UNLAWFUL! It's a contract between the parties. The Constitution is LAW. The "laws" passed by government are codes, statutes, acts etc.

[@LucisFerre1]

People operate off the assumption that laws stop criminals, but they don't. They also assume that if they make it illegal, some potential prostitutes will choose to go on to do something better, when the fact is women often go into prostitution when they DON'T have better options. Another fallacy is to think that making it illegal is the moral thing to do, when actually it makes life harder and more dangerous for the prostitute, the client & worse for those who don't want it on their doorstep.

[@zvi303]

Of course, it often isn't voluntary.

[@theoneheretosty]

The argument is fine as long as you prescribe to the notion that morality does not matter or can change. If people feel, who are you to stop me from doing what I want, or anything should go then fine go ahead. Some of us feel differently.

[@MrPublicexposure]

its a matter of self ownership

[@spartans1551]

Walter Block's position isn't that voluntary slavery is good or desirable (he never said it was), but merely that it should NOT be criminalized to the extent that it is a legitimate exercise of property rights. After all, we voluntarily enter into contracts that restrict our freedoms all the time (school, work, marriage), many of which cannot be canceled without significant emotional and monetary consequences. However, Block's position on this issue is a minority view among Libertarians.

[@EderikSchneider]

Prostitution is not the oldest profession in the world for nothing. And it will always be with is whether it is legal or not. So we might as well legalize it so we can make it as safe as possible.

[@walterdennisclark]

Walter Block did not even touch the reasons those statists that want such laws justify those laws. They are OK using force to stop a problem before it gets out of hand. The out of hand is lack of family values in the community.

[@spartans1551]

"Voluntary Slavery" is an oxymoron, but I had to go along because it's the term that Walter Block used (who, of all people, should know better)

[@theoneheretosty]

"In an unregulated free market, there is no such thing as prostitution. Either you buy the product or not" I look at it slightly differently, I value humans highly. A woman should be wise enough to exchange sex for marriage and nothing else, its in her own interest. But ultimately its her choice.

[@LucisFerre1]

The legalization, or lax enforcement of prostitution laws doesn't "increase" human trafficking. It's that prostitution is ILLEGAL elsewhere that increases trafficking. Slavery is more costly than contracting free and willful service providers in an open market. This is as true with the sex industry as it was with slavery in America's antebellum south. (See the Free Soil Party).

[@theoneheretosty]

Nope, I strongly believe in individualism. I believe in "ye who do not, work will not eat".

[@noothername2pick]

1 of 4 simple fixes to the economy, legalizing prostitution.

[@theoneheretosty]

"You have been socially conditioned to believe sex with many partners is wrong" Logically thinking it is not in a womans interest to have lots of sexual partners given the possibilities of un wanted children. At the end of the day it is her choice but I dont think that makes it right. "The simple fact is it's voluntary, and 99.9% of the problems prostitutes face come from people who believe they know better" I dont think anarchy is a solution, it boils down to can I do what I want to do.

[@theoneheretosty]

"1) Police arrest both parties buyer and seller problem" Police should only be used as a deterrent. "2 - 4" I live in the real world and realize utopia can not be reached. Your side of the argument makes sense as long as you kick out religion hence you advocate everyone to be able to do what ever they want. I think the solution is to allow people to have the final choice but to remember just because people chose it doesn't make it right. Using drugs is cool these days but it isn't right.

[@theoneheretosty]

"sex isn't as previously stated" In a world of impurity, caution would be best. "women offering sex for money are not" I value human being above all other forms on this earth which is why it bothers some of us to see self destruction. I fear for my children if this "short cut" was presented. Especially since we live in politically correct times where parents can not stop their children from doing wrong.

[@aramagoo]

My point is that legalization was tried many times throughout the millenia both by repeal of laws and passive non-enforcement with the same results.

[@52000rightwing]

I suppose we should also ban alcohol to prevent drunk driving.

[@MrPublicexposure]

i have more respect for prostitutes than politicians..at least the prostitute trades with his/her own property

[@LucisFerre1]

I wouldn't argue for taxing prostitution for the same reason I wouldn't advocate taxing any sales or barter transaction. Starting from transaction and hopping to taxation is a nonsequitur. There is no logical explanation as to why gov or "society" is due a percentage of my money just because I am utilizing it AS money. Gov doesn't invent money, traders do, be that currency sea shell, iron nails or salt. Neither does gov or "society" create my freedom to trade. I am a sovereign man.

[@CaramelDermis]

And you don't see the removal of a human being's right to govern over their very own body as a devaluation of human rights? Sadly, you probably haven't even thought about that. A great example of why concern for other people is absolutely useless unless backed by critical thought.

[@packratt76]

It depends what country you are talking about. In the US it's overwhelmingly voluntary, in some 3rd world countries it's more common for sex slaves to exist.

[@LucisFerre1]

Sorry baby, you're pie's underbaked. LOL

[@lifevt94hellotoworld]

On a principal level, I would rather avoid abuse and rape of prostitutes, than allow people to purchase and sell sex. But I'm not sure illegalization is the way to go.

[@Arnarstyrb]

Walter Block also wants to legalize slavery. Voluntary slavery of course.

[@666or999]

I severely doubt that. Show me some sources.

[@packratt76]

3 times it's then a felony. Good way to get someone out of prostitution by slapping them with a felony so they can't ever get a decent job.

[@RPFS2008]

The argument that 'prostitution should be banned due to cases of involuntary prostitution' is only as strong as the argument that 'labour should be banned due to cases of involuntary labour' I do not think it moral or wise to prohibit voluntary action because a minority may use force.

[@aramagoo]

I guess you have seen the light that the pure financial arguments on sanctioning against prostitution really stinks.

[@WWrightMMA]

May I see your sources as well?

[@saltysnacky]

This is true, but it's primarily due to the illegality that this is the case. If prostitution were not illegal you'd see what happens in Nevada, where it occurs safely in brothels with required STD checks, the right to refuse the provision of services, and a noticeable lack of pimps.

[@CaramelDermis]

"A woman should be wise enough to exchange sex for marriage and nothing else, its in her own interest." Aha, so you have no problem with women prostituting themselves as long as it's for a means that YOU approve of. Now we're getting much closer to the truth.

[@JudgeBob]

Participation in this trade is foolish, but getting in between a fool and his folly is dangerous. Therefor, my stance on all policy set is to advise against it and criticize the behavior but stand clear of those individuals intent on self destruction whether by drug abuse or cheapening their self worth and social value.

[@zvi303]

Another proof that our founders were not libertarians.

[@TheAlaric89]

The busibodies WOULD arrest the pieman and the milkman these days. Hell I would argue they have.

[@LucisFerre1]

"The same results" are the results because of the same persistent fallacies. It seems that you're arguing that prostitution is not a "benign activity". Explain how it's either nonexistent or better being illicit than if it were as legal and accepted as buying a cheeseburger.

[@CaramelDermis]

So you want to ban sex?

[@csilva85]

According to you [and Mr. Block] anyway... On the other hand, you may be correct..."there is no such thing as prostitution", as you like to say...it is actually sexual slavery, isn't it???... the same type of slavery that operates within the privately owned [e.g., the Corrections Corporation of America] prisons of America...

[@theoneheretosty]

"Ideas on morality OBVIOUSLY change, if you don't know that you need to look at history." With all due respect, perhaps yours changes but by definition how can you have morality if it changes? I think you are mixing morality with popular opinion.

[@csilva85]

But don't you think that socialism has gotten a bum rap...?

[@Auggies1956]

Aids....Need one say more ?