King Kres: Ancient Greek Memory of the Minoan Past

[@PathsUnwritten]

Even today, Crete just feels ancient. Imagine being among the Classical Greeks re-settling the island and seeing these ruins from a civilization that's already been extinct for over 1000 years.

[@apolloolympian4669]

Trully underrated channel

[@WanaxTV]

Thanks my friend. It’s steadily growing!

[@panagiotis7946]

@@WanaxTV Linear A Linear B is a script that dates back to 2200 BC. only found in Greece and in no other area outside Greece We find Linear A Linear B in Central Greece, Peloponnese, Crete and many islands The language of Linear B is Greek In Linear A we don't have many inscriptions to draw any definite conclusions Linear B it is a further development of Linear A from it with different grammatical rules the hieroglyphs of Crete, the language is also Greek In Linear B's thousands of panels, we didn't find a single one with a foreign language

[@panagiotis7946]

@@WanaxTV Phoenician is a writing system. It does NOT count as an ALPHABET in the classical scientific sense of the term since it has an incomplete structure. it does not separate letter-Phonem but SYLLABLES, besides the fact that the vowels or the consonants X, Ψ, Φ were not included at all the Phoenician A, how do you explain since the Phoenicians did not have vowels and finally has a different phonetic property than the Greek A All scientific terms related to writing, e.g. grammar, syntax, tone, phonem syllables are in Greek. if the alphabet had been found in Syria, it would have spread as a more practical writing to Egyptians, Syrians, Arameans, Mesopotamians, but this did not happen to those who continued to write until the Hellenistic-Roman times with cuneiform writing. Phoenician and cuneiform are writing systems like exactly the linear scripts I II in Greece It does NOT count as an ALPHABET in the classical scientific sense of the term since it has an incomplete structure. you cannot write scientific philosophical complex texts with these scripts hese theories were created in the 19th century when archeology was almost non-existent The Phoenician script is a transformation of the Cretan Cypriot syllabic script, which also comes from Linear II Ahiram's Sarkophag date based on the Bible!!!! Cypriot amphoras from the 5th century BC were found inside the Sarkophag Ahiram!!!!!!

[@buttercxpdraws8101]

This was really excellent. As a lifelong super fan of the Minoan civilisation, the breadth and depth of knowledge shared in this 10 minute video is very impressive! Thanks for your work 🙏

[@WanaxTV]

Appreciate the feedback. Thanks!

[@ancientsitesgirl]

Great video as always on your channel!💗💗💗

[@WanaxTV]

Thank you, appreciate it as always!

[@JulianDuke14]

It’s actually factual that the Minoans were not Greeks at all but a pre Greek or pre indo European people.

[@TheRealTomahawk]

Pelasgian?

[@ravensthatflywiththenightm7319]

8:38 Whoa, a Minotaur warrior! 🐄

[@Пекинка-с9х]

Very nice! Thank you!

[@herculianthegreat]

Wow wow amazing i have been in minoan palacaes in Crete this summer also spectacular experience

[@richardarcher7177]

Another superb video. Regarding the Achaean takeover of Eteocretan Crete I cannot help but draw comparisons between Rome and Carthage. Like Carthage, Crete was possibly a more advanced civilisation with a strong mercantalist bent. Hardly pacifict but perhaps not suited to a direct military confrontation with a society where warfare dominates the psyche to a much greater degree. Eteocretan civilisation was regularly wracked by natural distasters but were fortunate in earlier epochs that there was no sophisticated opponent that could challenge them whilst they rebuilt. By the 16th century BCE it seems they had run out of luck.

[@WanaxTV]

It is interesting how we stuck with term ‘Minoan’, thanks to Arthur Evans among others.

[@richardarcher7177]

@@WanaxTV I have to confess that until you brought it up I wasn't even aware of the term Eteocretan despite it's antiquity. Arthur Evans reach is long and all-encompassing but to name a while civilisation after a mythical king - well it's be like calling Egypt 'Narmeran' or Akkad 'Sargonian' or some such.

[@WanaxTV]

@@richardarcher7177 Agreed. Both him and Schiemann went apparently went with their emotions while giving names to their findings (such as Mask of Agamemnon being actually centuries older than Agamemnon himself, Treasury of Atreus etc). Minos himself was of the lineage of Tectamos and Asterion, ruling several generations after his ancestors conquered Crete. So he couldn’t have been a ‘Minoan’, or to be more precise, Evans shouldn’t have named the Eteocretan civilization ‘Minoan’ after Minos, but it is what it is, we are stuck with it now. There is also a theory that “Minos” was actually a name/title of the actual Minoan rulers, which led Greeks to come up with a Cretan king named Minos, but it’s all speculation since Linear A is still a mystery.

[@panagiotis7946]

no one knows what exactly happened, it's just speculation Crete and the Peloponnese knew each other for centuries and had very strong ties we are talking more about peaceful settlements and in no case the long wars with thousands of warriors and ships between Romans and Carthaginians or between the Greeks of Sicily and the Carthaginians There is no comparison Greek mythology preserves Greekness under the symbolism of myths. Mycenaeans or Minoans are terminologies that we use today, these people are essentially one nation with local differences thousands of inscriptions of Lnear II you do not find a single foreign word except Greek

[@vinrusso821]

Is the Combat Agate found at the Griffin Warrior tomb portray a Cretan fighting an Achaean?

[@WanaxTV]

Could be, it’s hard to say. It’s details and quality are so advanced for the Bronze Age!

[@matthewandrews2290]

Any person who doesn't respond to their channel claiming to teach something is not on a firm foundation.

[@Pontus-dz2xh]

Wanax TV, I’m confused. In a previous video, you said that the term “Minos” was a title the Minoans/Eteocretans used to refer to their king. So how do we know THE King Minos wasn’t a Minoan? Was he known by any other name? I just don’t understand because in that previous video the Minoan rulers were described almost identically to how you described Minos here.

[@seanzibonanzi64]

Crazy to think that to the Mycenaean, the Minoans were ancient and to the Minoan, Egyptians were ancient.

[@pindanetel]

what was ancient to the egyptians? atlantis according to plato i guess

[@johnk4433]

Minoans and Egyptians were the same time period.

[@thomasmalacky7864]

​@@pindanetelAfrican Humid Period Kingdoms with megaliths in the green sahara. This is where Egypt got alot of its theology from originally ie Hathor, cow Godess.

[@oskareriksson2202]

The last etheocretan settlement for what I know was destroyed by the Romans, by pompeus on his campaign against piracy in eastern Mediterranean (this settlement was a cove of pirates by now probably )

[@LuisAldamiz]

I'd say that the Tectomos and Aeolian (plus Dorian, plus Thessalo-Pelasgian) aspects of the invasion story seem plausible. That would explain why later Crete spoke a Dorian dialect and not, for example a Ionian one (which could be supported by not just the Theseus legend but by actual intense Athens-Crete trade in the Bronze Age, Harris 2016) or a Achaean one either. It'd also explain the strong relation of Pelasgians (and their Sea Peoples' version: Peleset) with Crete in Greek legends and such, where they are presented as distinct from the Eteocretans. Of course it might be for reasons rather related to the Dark Age but still I'm willing to concede Tectomos story some credibility.

[@WanaxTV]

Thank you very much for the comment. It’s very possible that the dialect known as ‘Dorian’ was actually an evolution of a mixture of the original Northwest Dorian (spoken in the regions where the Dorians actually came from) and Achaean/Mycenaean. Let’s not forget that the Messenians also spoke “Dorian” despite the region likely being majority Achaean and minority Dorian (with Achaeans being the upper class) at the time of Spartan conquest. There was surely an influx of Peloponnesian Dorians to Crete during Dark Ages, and it is possible that Tectamos’ Dorian contingent and lineage were subsequent additions to the myth added by Dorians themselves. But either way, wherever was a “Dorian” dialect spoken, there was most likely an Achaean element to it, otherwise the dialect would’ve been the same as NW Dorian as spoken in the original 100% Dorian regions.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@WanaxTV - My overall understanding is rather that in the Mycenaean era all the Peloponese spoke Achaean (or at least the elites did, the masses might have even spoken pre-Indoeuropean remnants in some cases for a while) and that's why it was retained in Arcadia and Cyprus (Hellenized with the Sea Peoples' wave of c. 1178 BCE) later on. And that Dorian came from the North (Northern Central Greece) via the Heraklids and their soldiers. Basically there were three dialects in Mycenaean era IMO: 1. *Achaean* ("Central") or mainline *Mycenaean Greek* in the Peloponese and Boetioa (this last leading to Eolian and spreading to coastal Thessaly already in the Trojan War era). This was the dominant dialect in those days. 2. *Ionian* ("Eastern") in Attica and Euboea. 3. Greater *Dorian* ("Western") in the Phtiotis-Aetolia (incl. Doris) northern frontier, spreading to Peloponese and Epirus from there just before the Dark Age. How did Dorian became so dominant in the Peloponese? Probably via elite domination and resettlements after the c. 1070 final destruction of Mycenaean Greece (Athens excepted). In general the elites were Dorian (Heraklid). I'm therefore perplex at you saying that Messenian elites were Achaean rather, I had to look it up at Wikipedia because the exact legendary history of Messenia after Pylos (Achaean speakers) was until now unknown to me and it reads: "During the legendary Dorian invasion of the Peloponnese during the Greek Dark ages, Messenia was supposedly *invaded by Dorians* under Cresphontes, arriving from Arcadia. They took as their capital Stenyclarus in the northern plain, and then extended, first their suzerainty, and then their rule over the whole district". The finer details I leave them to you because you surely know them better. But generally speaking it seems that the destiny of Messenia per the legend of the Heraklids was not different than of the other parts of the Peloponese: to be ruled by the Dorians.

[@milanlukic1063]

Very interesting point of view ,I cannot remember anyone to research connection between mythical Tectomos migration and real Achaean invasion on Crete 1450 B.C. Never cross my mind...

[@37Dionysos]

Great images of Knossos in decay. Only problem is that Minoans and Eteocretans never had and did not want "kings" as we understand the term. There is no evidence whatsoever for them.

[@ajithsidhu7183]

Warfare please

[@beepboop204]

👍

[@milanlukic1063]

King Cretheus or Kres, according to Diodorus is Aeolian not Eteocretan so if we want to believe in that source we should search for Eteocretans at least few decades earlier.

[@SuperRobinjames]

who are the Pelasgians?

[@professor0076]

great vid ...............man u have to apply to voice over or narration for the big screen! i don't think ur'll put tom hanks etc out of work but movies like conan u would be great! now that anti christ putin is on a tear ............tom hanks is going to have plenty to voice over! hang in there Ukraine........Jesus is coming!

[@mercianthane2503]

So, for the greeks the minoans were truly earthborn creatures, literally. Lmaow.

[@LuisAldamiz]

Just like the giants, it's a legendary way to describe the aborigines as deeply rooted in their respective lands.

[@pindanetel]

maybe they called them that way because of their type of religious worldview, some scholars identify the minoans with having very telluric one