Who were the Sea Peoples? (Bronze Age Collapse & Sea Peoples Origins)

[@spacebunny4335]

One of my favourite subjects of the Bronaze Age I love reading the many segestions about the origins of the Sea Peoples.

[@seanzibonanzi64]

As a bronze age collapse enthusiast myself, I always found Zangger's Luwian hypothesis pretty neat. So many events with similarities to today's trade conflicts. The attempted trade blockade of Egypt, Babylon and the Hittites against the Assyrians and the Hittites sea invasion and seizure of Cyprus are particularly interesting.

[@marcusward9924]

Brilliant, please do more on the Bronze Age, absolutely fascinating, Thank you.

[@ancientsitesgirl]

fascinating, my favorite historical period 😍

[@WanaxTV]

Thank you! More videos are on the way for this period!

[@mercianthane2503]

My theories: Shekelesh - Sicily, perhaps. Sherden - Sardinia. This is very plausible. Ekwesh - The bronze age Akhaiwoi aka Achaeans. Denyen - The Danaans, yes. Peleset - We know them as Phillistines, obviously. Tjekker - I'll try the Troyan theory. Karkisha - Yes, the people of Caria. Lukka - Yes, the lycians. Weshesh - Maybe the carian settlement of Wassos aka Iassos. Still, the Peleset will always outshine the other tribes, because of their antagonistic role in the Bible as the opponents of the people of Israel.

[@WanaxTV]

Solid theories. I was always a little bit skeptical about western Mediterranean simply because of the logistics.

[@mercianthane2503]

@@WanaxTV That's true, which is why only the Sherden theory is the one I can agree with. Shekelesh as Sicilians is complicated.

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

🤺☦🇷🇺Partly true. I will tell you exactly who they were, and who exactly comprise the Greek race (Ion), and solve you the whole mystery: The Caslukhites and Caphtorites, who are the so called "minoans" and "sea people", were distinct Egyptian races from which came the Philistines (Peleset/Pelasgians), who carried haplogroup E3b-v13, and are none other than the Illyrians - today mostly Albanians. And this is the correct description of the family of Greeks: *YAVAN* (Greeks/Ioanians): *Elisha* (Aeolians: Hellas/Elis/Alishiya -mainland Greeks) *Tarshish* (Etruscans: Tarsus, Cilicia/Corsica/Tartessus/Troas; Teresh/Tyrrhenians -Tuscans, east Italy) *Kittim* (Achaeans: Cyprus+aegean islands -Macedonians) *Dodanim* (Dorians: Dardanians, Dodana/Denyen/Dodecanese islands+Rhodes; Italics/Latins=Rome - Italians) And Egyptians: *MITSRAYIM* (Egypt): *Anamim* (Anam+Alexandria) *Lehabim* (Libu/Meshwesh>Libyans) *Naphtukhim* (Napata●) *Pathrusim* (Patros●) *Caslukhim* (Illyrians: Tjekker/Dor, Sicani, Siculi -Albanians) --> -*-Philistines-*- (Cretes>PELESET- Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, Jaffa) *Caphtorim* (Sherden: Cretes-'Minoans'+Sardinians)

[@mercianthane2503]

@@bloedblarre The heck

[@odysseus5607]

I never lied! I am in fact a Cretan prince! Amazing video as always!

[@WanaxTV]

True! Odysseus never lies!

[@odysseus5607]

@@WanaxTV The most honest man in the mediterranean

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

🤺☦🇷🇺If you carry haplogroup E3b-v13, yes you are) I will tell you exactly who they were, and who exactly comprise the Greek race (Ion), and solve you the whole mystery: The Caslukhites and Caphtorites, who are the so called "minoans" and "sea people", were distinct Egyptian races from which came the Philistines (Peleset/Pelasgians), who carried haplogroup E3b-v13, and are none other than the Illyrians - today mostly Albanians. And this is the correct description of the family of Greeks: *YAVAN* (Greeks/Ioanians): *Elisha* (Aeolians: Hellas/Elis/Alishiya -mainland Greeks) *Tarshish* (Etruscans: Tarsus, Cilicia/Corsica/Tartessus/Troas; Teresh/Tyrrhenians -Tuscans, east Italy) *Kittim* (Achaeans: Cyprus+aegean islands -Macedonians) *Dodanim* (Dorians: Dardanians, Dodana/Denyen/Dodecanese islands+Rhodes; Italics/Latins=Rome - Italians) And Egyptians: *MITSRAYIM* (Egypt): *Anamim* (Anam+Alexandria) *Lehabim* (Libu/Meshwesh>Libyans) *Naphtukhim* (Napata●) *Pathrusim* (Patros●) *Caslukhim* (Illyrians: Tjekker/Dor, Sicani, Siculi -Albanians) --> -*-Philistines-*- (Cretes>PELESET- Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, Jaffa) *Caphtorim* (Sherden: Cretes-'Minoans'+Sardinians)

[@Veriox22]

Your narration is spot on. It's such a shame this age is mostly lost to history.

[@WanaxTV]

Agreed. There will be more videos coming on this period!

[@Veriox22]

@@WanaxTV They will definitely be appreciated!

[@DavidValdezBigWaveDave]

This is just what I needed today! Love everything you put out

[@WanaxTV]

Thanks David. I really appreciate it!

[@josephphoenix1376]

Excellent Episode 👍 Along with the Hyksos...one of my favorite subjects in Ancient History

[@WanaxTV]

Hyksos is an interesting topic for future content.

[@Hispano1]

The name Ekwesh is very similar to Indo-European root "*ekwo-" (horse). Excellent video.

[@bc7138]

Such a fascinating era, one that straddles proto-history and the historical record. Thanks to Egyptian (and some outsider records such as the Hittites) for if it weren't for them we would know nothing about this era; we would only have the burnt ruins discovered by archaeologists. I often wonder if the Sea Peoples were named after the warchiefs/leaders/kings that led certain warbands rather than their homelands. Although the clear link between Lukka and Lycia makes this highly unlikely.

[@jackalhead7433]

Ithacans: "So Odysseus we heard disturbing stories that you and your men tried to attack Egypt but got defeated and humiliated by the Egyptians is that really true?" Odysseus: "Bah who told you those lies? That's totally NOT true but lemme tell you folks what really happened: I was venturing on the high seas and landed on a mysterious island that was inhabited by - wait for it - GIANTS!! who had but one eye located on their forehead can you imagine!" Ithacans: "Really? That's interesting tell us more oh mighty and crafty Odysseus!" Odysseus: "Yes I will but before that I will tell you the story how I managed to bang not one but two literal goddesses!" Ithacans: "Woah that is so cool Odysseus tell us more about your adventures"

[@sasquatch4754]

I have this idea based on my recent reading, that the invasion of the sea peoples, the Dorian invasion, the fall of Atlantis, & the Trojan war, are all describing the same event.

[@beepboop204]

what source is this? Graham Hancock?

[@sasquatch4754]

@@beepboop204 No, but I get that you're making an insult. The books are, (yes books), "The Baltic origins of Homer's epic tales" by Felice Vinci, "Atlantis of the north" by Jurgen Spanuth, & "Where Troy once stood" by Iman Wilkens. I don't think that any one of these authors are entirely correct, however there are certain features of all of them which dovetail to present a solid picture of what may have went on. Spanuth disregards the dating of the Atlantis story, (the point that Hancockists are forever hung up on), as an error, & focuses on the the larger elements of Plato's story, i.e. The culture, geography, ethnography, & of course that main part of the Atlantis story: the war with Athens. After all isn't Athens & Attica the only part of mainland Greece that withstood the Dorian invasion, akin to the Athenians being the only people that repelled the Atlantean's. If you're interested there's also what I've been able to glean from the utterly weird & bizarre "Bock Saga". That one's entertaining.

[@beepboop204]

@@sasquatch4754 conspiracy and misinformation dont have a place here

[@sasquatch4754]

@@cal2127 Oh yeah. The Philistines are fascinating, for me especially the closeness of their name to an utterly mysterious people known as the Pelasgians. I'm not entirely convinced that a few tribes on the west coast of Anatolia are the people the ancients were referring to when they used the term Pelasgians. Have you seen all the polygonal masonry thats all over the classical world, with the best examples to be found in Italy? Whenever the ancients referred to these constructions they used the term "cyclopean walls" & although they didn't know, believed they were built by the Pelasgians: the pre-Greek inhabitants of the area. Who were these guys?

[@sasquatch4754]

@@beepboop204 Oh man, you're funny! please point out the "conspiracy" I have outlined, & if by "misinformation" you mean different ideas, then yeah I guess I'm guilty

[@chrisperry4143]

Great information and use of maps. Thanks

[@akarayan]

It seems to me that the Sea Peoples aligns quite well with the story of the Trojan War. The Achaeans created a large alliance and went to invade Asia Minor and after conquering and sacking Troy they ended up raiding the coastal areas of the eastern Mediterranean for 10 years, mostly settling there. The disruption caused by the sack of Troy would also lead to people from that area and other parts of coastal Asia Minor to leave and galavant around the area. Seems to me like this is the same story as the Sea Peoples.

[@ecurewitz]

Thank you very much. It was very informative. ❤

[@WanaxTV]

I'm glad you like it!

[@richardarcher7177]

Another fascinating video. I always thought that the Sea Peoples had their origins in the aftermath of the Trojan war. A ten year war with unprecdented destruction in Western Asia would certainly have displaced many people in the region while the Myceneans - although victorious - had so weakened themselves that they were open to invasions from central and northern Greece (Dorians/return of the Heraclidae). As for those orginating from Sardinia (and perhaps Sicily) could actually be something reminiscent of the Vikings two milennia later. There is evidence of climate change from the time that might have impacted the food supply and led to population pressue. The same impact on food supply would probably have weakened the civilizations whose revenue base and whatnot was dependent on agricultural output and when that failed - or at least weakened - it would have reduced their capacity to deal with the problem.

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

🤺☦🇷🇺I will tell you exactly who they were, and who exactly comprise the Greek race (Ion), and solve you the whole mystery: The Caslukhites and Caphtorites, who are the so called "minoans" and "sea people", were distinct Egyptian races from which came the Philistines (Peleset/Pelasgians), who carried haplogroup E3b-v13, and are none other than the Illyrians - today mostly Albanians. And this is the correct description of the family of Greeks: *YAVAN* (Greeks/Ioanians): *Elisha* (Aeolians: Hellas/Elis/Alishiya -mainland Greeks) *Tarshish* (Etruscans: Tarsus, Cilicia/Corsica/Tartessus/Troas; Teresh/Tyrrhenians -Tuscans, east Italy) *Kittim* (Achaeans: Cyprus+aegean islands -Macedonians) *Dodanim* (Dorians: Dardanians, Dodana/Denyen/Dodecanese islands+Rhodes; Italics/Latins=Rome - Italians)

[@Leptospirosi]

Pheleset and Pelasgoi match well enough, knowing they were spread not just around Crete but also on the western coast of Anatolia (displaced by Aeolians). A thing that always hit me was that these people were not just out for piracy but rather desperate for food, lands and common items. This is what emerges from Ugarit and other archeological sites subject to plunder. There is a theory that all this could have been set in motion by a volcanic eruption, possibly in Iceland, which brought several harsh winters and cold summers, bringin failing crops and forcing local population all across the northern Mediterranean to displace, not differently from what Krakatoa did in 535AD. The inability of the Rulers to provide favour from the gods could have destabilised the vertical society of Miceneans and Hatti,while southern reigns like Egypt Assyria and Babylon managed to survive despite not for long thanks to better weather conditions.

[@andygas1451]

In Homer's epics, it is clearly mentioned that, after the destruction of Troy, the Greeks raided various countries. These raids served dual purposes: some were to find Helen, who had eloped with Paris (an alternative narrative of the poem), while others were driven by the political changes in Greece caused by their prolonged absence, which prevented their return. Among these countries was Egypt, where, following a raid on Egyptian soil, the Greeks sacrificed local children. Subsequently, they were defeated and forced to flee Egypt, with the Egyptians in pursuit. The account could not be more explicit.

[@onbedoeldekut1515]

I think Tjekker has a closer cognate in Teucer, the founder of Wilios/Ilios/Troy than any other location, and that Thrax (the mythological founder of Thrace) _might_ have a connection, as Thrace was listed among Troy's allies.

[@littlejon2683]

Very good video

[@GoldsmithsStats]

Thanks for this: I am a total sucker for videos on the bronze age collapse. Nobody can probably ever know the answer to the question of origins, but I wonder if the Peleset might have been refugees from the collapse of Pylos, and the Teresh, the survivors of the demise of Tiryns? Tiryns was associated with Herakles, whose followers were linked with the Sea Peoples. Another theory to throw into the stock pot!

[@WanaxTV]

Actually, unlike Mycenae, there was no demise of Tiryns on that level. Its citadel actually increased its population during the 12th century to c. 15,000 when Mycenae was suffering destruction. It suggests that the inhabitants of Mycenae possibly moved to Tiryns for protection. Tiryns gradually declined during the Dark Ages and its citadel continued to be inhabited until 8th century BC.

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

🤺☦🇷🇺 I will tell you exactly who they were, and who exactly comprise the Greek race (Ion), and solve you the whole mystery: The Caslukhites and Caphtorites, who are the so called "minoans" and "sea people", were distinct Egyptian races from which came the Philistines (Peleset/Pelasgians), who carried haplogroup E3b-v13, and are none other than the Illyrians - today mostly Albanians. And this is the correct description of the family of Greeks: *YAVAN* (Greeks/Ioanians): *Elisha* (Aeolians: Hellas/Elis/Alishiya -mainland Greeks) *Tarshish* (Etruscans: Tarsus, Cilicia/Corsica/Tartessus/Troas; Teresh/Tyrrhenians -Tuscans, east Italy) *Kittim* (Achaeans: Cyprus+aegean islands -Macedonians) *Dodanim* (Dorians: Dardanians, Dodana/Denyen/Dodecanese islands+Rhodes; Italics/Latins=Rome - Italians)

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

🤺☦🇷🇺I will tell you exactly who they were, and who exactly comprise the Greek race (Ion), and solve you the whole mystery: The Caslukhites and Caphtorites, who are the so called "minoans" and "sea people", were distinct Egyptian races from which came the Philistines (Peleset/Pelasgians), who carried haplogroup E3b-v13, and are none other than the Illyrians - today mostly Albanians. And this is the correct description of the family of Greeks: *YAVAN* (Greeks/Ioanians): *Elisha* (Aeolians: Hellas/Elis/Alishiya -mainland Greeks) *Tarshish* (Etruscans: Tarsus, Cilicia/Corsica/Tartessus/Troas; Teresh/Tyrrhenians -Tuscans, east Italy) *Kittim* (Achaeans: Cyprus+aegean islands -Macedonians) *Dodanim* (Dorians: Dardanians, Dodana/Denyen/Dodecanese islands+Rhodes; Italics/Latins=Rome - Italians) And Egyptians: *MITSRAYIM* (Egypt): *Anamim* (Anam+Alexandria) *Lehabim* (Libu/Meshwesh>Libyans) *Naphtukhim* (Napata●) *Pathrusim* (Patros●) *Caslukhim* (Illyrians: Tjekker/Dor, Sicani, Siculi -Albanians) --> -*-Philistines-*- (Cretes>PELESET- Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, Jaffa) *Caphtorim* (Sherden: Cretes-'Minoans'+Sardinians)

[@joanapira365]

Luka=the players Kadesh=as they wished danyen/dhanien=the gifted ones Shekelesh=the hairy ones

[@kotsaris87]

Let me guess: delusional albanian

[@TheRealTomahawk]

Can you do a video on Carneia, Carneia, important religious festival among ancient Dorian-speaking Greeks, held in the month of Karneios (roughly August). The name is connected with Karnos, or Karneios, who is indeed Apóllôn.

[@WanaxTV]

Good idea! I'll add it to the list for 2023.

[@alexanderguesthistorical7842]

The more I look into the era of the Bronze Age Collapse, the more it all seems to fall into place. In my view the Illiad became such a central piece of Greek literature specifically because it dealt with the root cause of what we now call the Bronze Age Collapse. The Illiad was essentially a warning to history of how hubris and folly can lead to unintended and catastrophic consequences. It seems to me that the fall of Troy was the absolute epicentre of the whole civilisational collapse of the Mycenaean Greeks, caused by, who else, the Mycenaean Greeks! Agamemnon et-al embarked upon a war of conquest against a (somewhat) neighbouring state, which the Mycenaeans had ongoing relations with. All for the sake of the 'theft' of a noble woman from Sparta (Helen). When Troy eventually fell, there MUST have been a power vacuum in that area, and who better to fill that vacuum than the Hittites. It strikes me that it was the Trojans who had a large fleet of ships who were responsible for keeping the Dardanelles clear of piracy in order for trade to be conducted from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean Sea. They did this because they were the gatekeepers of the Dardanelles, and obviously grew FABULOSLY wealthy on the taxation they must have imposed on ships plying the strait. The Mycenaeans almost certainly resented having to pay those taxes to the Trojans. In order to recieve shipments of grain from the Pontic Steppe to feed it's massively powerful armies. This was almost certainly the sub-text of the trojan campaign. The elopement of Helen, simply being the 'casus beli'. But with Troy gone, and the Hittites (probably) in control of the Dardanelles, either piracy, or a full closure of the straits to shipping or something of that nature happened to CLOSE the straits. Illium, the guardians of the gateway between the seas had been sacked and razed by the Mycenaeans. The result for the Greek-speaking world would almost certainly have been FAMINE, as shipments of grain from what is now Ukraine would have been blocked off by piracy or perhaps political policy of an adversarial power. Prices of bread (and thus everything else) would have skyrocketed. The populations in the Mycenaean cities would have rebelled and sacked their own megarons, for the grain that the wealthy had hoarded for themselves. The elites would have been only too acutely aware of the tendency for rebellion of their populations. And so they set out to ally together to conquer another territory which produced vast quantities of grain - Egypt! Hence the coalition of 'The Sea Peoples'. Those who lived in and amongst the sea(s) i.e. the Mycenaean city states, along with other allied Anatolian kingdoms. I see no reason why the 'Peleset' could not have been those from the kingdom of old Nestor the kingdom of PYLOS. The Teresh, those from around Argos lead by the King of TYRINS. Ultimately it was Egypt alone of all the Bronze Age Kingdoms who survived - because they produced huge quantities of grain themselves, enough to maintain a large army. All the others fell, and were reduced back to the low-level subsistence farming settlements that existed in pre-Mycenaean times. Scratching a living on the relatively poor soils around their polies. There is also the not-inconsiderable notion of the fact that, just as there was a flu epidemic, after the return of the troops from the First World War which killed (I think) about 13 million people worldwide, the troops returning from Troy also brought disease back with them, as we are told by the ancient literature. Add to that, the fact that after the coalition of the Achaean forces led by the powerful Agamemnon and their absence to wage war on Troy for TEN YEARS, the home-lands would have adjusted to a normality without them. Thus regents, and governors would have been put in place to govern the home-lands in place of the absent Kings. Penelope being one of those regents who managed to stave-off a coup, by refusing to 'marry suitors', until the return of Odysseus. The return of those Kings along with ebullient, powerful armies, to retake what was rightfully theirs would have effectively been an INVASION of the home-lands, by their own rulers. The utter chaos which ensued MUST (I feel) have been the direct root cause of the Bronze Age Collapse. And as the Illiad points out, it was all happened because of Helen of Troy and Paris. NO PROOF - JUST SPECULATION! But as a narrative, it does explain the sequence of events of those times using phenomena which are well known and understood from diffenrent periods in history

[@gruboniell4189]

The brinzr and copper traders were underhanded by the iron traders. This upset is the same as battery vs oil today

[@Dragan-t6w]

World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC. World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010) Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together. Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world. Vinca Iron production 1400 BC. In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words. Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia ……. Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection. After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans. Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.

[@georgedimakopoulos3581]

The Sea People came from Southern Italy, Greece, South West and South Turkey. Been Allies and Friends with the Hettittes, they were send to try to take Northern Eygept . Also in 1200 - 1100 BC, there was a Famine. Then the Dorian's in 1100 - 1000 BC invaded Central Greece (Bringing the Iron Age). About 1185 BC, the Greeks Attacked Troy.

[@gurnblanston5000]

Atlantis was where the Richat Structure is. Check it out.

[@LuisAldamiz]

I must say I disagree with much, even if there are also overlaps. First of all I disagree with the oversimplified chronology: other than the Sherden early invasion attempt, there are two distinct "sea peoples" waves, each representing a different coalition, one led by the Hittites c. 1208 BCE and another two successive waves in the aftermath of Troy, led by the Greeks-Denesh (Denyen in the video) c. 1178 and 1175 BCE. The Dorian invasion would not happen until c. 1130 BCE and the final Mycenaean collapse (Athens notably excepted) would only happen c. 1070 BCE, when Egypt also fell in part to the Meswesh (Berbers), who should be also counted among the "sea peoples", as they were part of all or most of such coalitions (first under the name of Libu, then Meswesh). Secondly, I would underline that there were still many Pelasgo-Tyrsenian (pre-Indouropean, derived from the Halaf-Vinca wave) in the Aegean region in the Bronze Age: the Pelasgoi in Thessaly (Rakhmani culture) and by extension surely also in Crete and the various Arzawan groups, including the Teresh (Tyrsenoi > Etruscans) and the Tjekker (Teucrians or Trojans). The Shekelesh are clearly Semitic, Canaanite almost certainly, because they were circumcised and because their name is made up of "shekel" = silver weight, later coin, implying that they were mercenaries/pirates, probably proto-Phoenicians of some sort. They would end up in Sicily later on and that explains why Sicily has such Syrian-like or Lebanese-like genetics, otherwise not found anywhere in Europe. The Weshesh are IMO the Ausones of South Italy but not Italic in any way: the Italics were in those days further north only, having only arrived to Italy a century or two earlier, the Ausones (sing. Auso, similar to Weshesh) were a pre-Indouropean people who pirated Greece, so they are a good candidate, even if uncertain. It's important to understand that, if the Mycenaean Denesh were destroying the Hittite Empire and attacking Egypt c. 1178 BCE, they were not yet at all being destroyed themselves, that would take time and is only touched by legend and the Egyptian sources have nothing to say, unless we take Plato's narrative about the Atlantean invasion seriously.

[@LuisAldamiz]

PS - I appreciate the mention of the Cretan Lie, surely a wink of the griot to those in the audience, like Ulysses himself, who knew the real deal but still enjoyed the long tale that the rest of the Odyssey is. He was probably paid very well. I also appreciate the honorary mention I got in the final credits.

[@WanaxTV]

@@LuisAldamiz Hi Luis. Good input as always. Mycenae originally suffered destruction at around the same time as Pylos, c. 1080 BC. It did briefly recover until being finally destroyed about 80-100 years later. During that time Tiryns kept sizable population within its citadel, suggesting a "second-capital" or backup citadel for Mycenaean rulers. Mycenaean Sparta was abandoned during 12th century, suggesting a major exodus of Achaeans from Laconia (which was together with Argolis a major area of "Achaeans proper" according to most ancient writers). This suggests not one "Dorian invasion", but multiple and continuous attempts to bring down Mycenae. In Greek mythology, this is mirrored by no less than 5 Heracleid invasion attempts: - Two by Hyllus in late 13th century * One during supposed Mycenaean civil war between Atreus and Thyestes, unsuccessful * Another one during Arteus' reign, also unsucessful. Resulted in Hyllus being killed - One by Cleodaeus during early Orestes' reign in Mycenae (supposedly 1180-1175 BC) * This one is likely critical, as it is very close to Pylos and initial Mycenae destruction timewise. * Also, the first colonist expeditions/migrations happened under Orestes' reign, such as one led by his son Penthilus. This perhaps correlates with general Mycenaean decline and weakness, and thus migrations due to economic collapse and overall fear of destruction. * Orestes also established direct Mycenaean rule over Sparta/Laconia after Menelaus died. This perhaps correlates with weak/abandoned Laconia that didn't have their own local ruler anymore. * This is a time where Mycenaean Greece is generally finished as a power, with Mycenaean control reduced to settlements in Argolis. Mycenae reduced to citadel and Tiryns possibly harboring larger population than Mycenae itself. * Linear B also ceases to exist during this time. * Now the desperate Mycenaean attempt to build a wall at the Isthmus of Corinth would fall either into Orestes' late reign or Tisamenus' early reign - Another (overall 4th) invasion attempt by Aristomachus early during Tisamenus' reign. * This one would be in line with your 1130 BC time frame * Aristomachus reportedly killed - Final invasion by Temenus & brothers, also during Tisamenus' reign * Their armies are reportedly majority Dorian, but also Aetolian (led by Oxylus) with even Boeotian allies (led by Autesion of Thebes) * Achaeans in Argolis finally broken. Path for the rise of Dorian Argos (chosen by Temenus as his capital)

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@WanaxTV - When I say "Mycenae", I usually mean "Mycenaean Greece", not the specific fort-town between Argos and Corinth. The question is that the destruction of BA Greece is more recent than the documented "sea peoples" and even more recent than the destruction of the palaces, which is the invasion I associate with the Heraklids (which also fits the legendary chronlogy AFAIK, c. 1130 BCE). The exact crhonology is complicated because LBA radiocarbon calibration curve is complicated and quite flat and also some important research is pre-radiometry, purely stratigraphic and typological. So you say 1080, I say 1070, I've read 1060 too before this and was the date I used for some time... I largely date it in the end relative to Egyptian chronology, not without issues but probably safer than BA Greece if comparison is possible as it is in this case (IMO). Early 11th century BCE in any case, one full century after the destruction of Troy and Ugarit. That means they can't be the same phenomenon. It's another war, not the same "sea peoples": even if some ethnicities were the same (uncertain but I believe so), it'd be the great-grandsons of the ravagers of Ugarit and such.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@WanaxTV - As for the legend of multiple Heraklid invasions, I'll look on that. I'm familiar with two attemps: one failed through the isthmus and another "three generations" (a century) later via the Lepanto (Lefkada) Strait near modern Patras (Patrai). First time I read of three invasions but I'm sure you know better in terms of legends, so I'll grant you so much. Doris was a very small region (even if somehow they managed to split it in four), so I always assumed that the term "Dorian" rather applies to "Dorians and allies" of similar northern (now called "western") dialect, hardy frontier peoples used to fight against the Pelasgo-Thessalians (and probably many other endeavors as mercenaries or whatever) and not very different to Achilles' myrmydons.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@WanaxTV - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5744937/ C14 chronology of the LBA Greece: the destruction of the palace of Nestor (Pylos) is dated to a narrow band after 1150 BCE (fig. 4), so it'd be neither for you nor me but something in between. Still 20 years after the documented "sea peoples". This event is at the very beginning of the LHCIII period and LBA ("Mycenaean") Greece would still continue existing somehow until c. 3010 (Iron Age begins). However they don't date the "Submycenaean" (LHCIII transitions directly to the early Iron Age), so there's room for wiggling in the last period.

[@teton-bound5147]

What does the book of Jasher have to say?

[@TimothyHancock-mz8us]

Westhes I don't know if I'm spelling this right but I fanck it sounds like a Celtic name I might be wrong

[@peterjobovic3406]

I think that the names of the sea peoples can really agree with the original place where they came from and with the place where they later traveled, during this great movement of people, similar to the migration of peoples - 5th century AD. So a nation that lived in Asia Minor could end up in for example in Italy and give that area its name. Publius Vergilius Maro - Enneida - may be an echo of these events.

[@joanapira365]

Tjeker=the ones who pull a carro.

[@alps.]

I found this video more “historically mainstream” than needed, although this channel has a great record of fused historio-mythological narrative. If you put down the myths you could present what the ancient Greeks believed had happened at the same time that others reported “sea peoples” attacking eastern Mediterranean. The proposed chronology was not clearly shown either. It was also not explained that “sea peoples” is an invented term that does not accurately describe the findings - only some of the “peoples” mentioned were linked with the sea or the islands and it is not even established that the attackers were migrating peoples; they were rather war bands in most cases

[@WanaxTV]

Thanks for the feedback, I agree here. I actually did mention how the "Sea Peoples" is not the original term but didn't go into detail. The video rather dealt with the theories of origins for the Sea Peoples groups. I actually planned to do the whole series on the Sea Peoples in the second part of the year, which was to include much more details and go chronologically from start to finish. However, as a part of 2022 year-long viewers competition, the winner got to choose one video, and his choice was "Origins of the Sea Peoples", so a rather specific video was created. But sooner or later, the Sea Peoples series is coming!

[@alps.]

Great! Thanks for clarifying! In terms of presenting the theories of origin those maps were spot-on. It is such great content we love seeing it flourish.

[@klausbrinck2137]

7:30 and 14:12 Karia and its Kariots: just at her coast is a greek island calle "Ikaria", and its people are called "Ikariots", and the sea around it is called "Ikario pelago", taken its name from Ikaros, Daidalos´ son, who fall from the sky into the sea, and died there. Possibly one unit with "Karia" earlier, Where the Island-part kept its greek name till today, while the mainland-part of Karia was lost for the Greeks, and thus changed its name. When the Greeks eventually got it back, centuries later, the original name was forgotten.

[@kotsaris87]

Karia has nothing to do with Ikaria. Carians were Anatolians and were named Karkiya in Hittite sources

[@klausbrinck2137]

@@kotsaris87 While that might be 100% correct, it doesn´t prove, that Karia cannot have it´s name from Ikaria, or the Ikario pelago... For example, non-greek historians usually argue, that the Makedons were having all the greek feats and characteristica, but weren´t really Greeks, not genetically at least, while by 350bc, they really became undistinguishable from Greeks... Other people could also have adopted some greeks features... It can be as simple as that: Greeks name those people "Ikariots", and they adopt the name for themselves with time, while letting the initial "i" be gone... I don´t suggest, I have any proof, but that´s a hell of a coincidence... Another example, to showcase how far ethnic groups can influence others, even if they aren´t the majority: To the east of Karia/Lykia, almost as far as the coast opposite/north to Cyprus, there was a city with a big "Danaoi"-minority. Homer descended supposedly from this city, and the city looked exactly like his Troy in the Iliad, its geography too (where mountains, hills, rivers and the coast are placed, Troy itself, or its geography, actually never looked like he describes it)... Also, the greek minority in this city (in Homer´s time), has had 10 years of trouble with the ethnic majority/ruler of this city (some 10-year-embargo for greek traders, that traded with the city´s greek minority, probably traders themselves)... Homer embedded the struggle of the Greeks of his own city, into the trojan-war-myth, by using the looks/geography of his city, as the blueprint for his Troy. That´s not proven, just a couple of literature-scientists support the idea (its also unimportant/irrelevant). But the greek minority really existed there, and after 10 years, they managed to overcome the trade-embargo, that´s a fact. And that´s very far from Greece, where they managed to influence politics. Of course, not Homer is the source for that, but other, administrative scriptures, and archeology.

[@patrizioqualireto8433]

Weshesh looks somewhat similar in concept to "barbar" or "barbaroi" - i. e. a foreign people speaking in an unintelligible and/or non-Egyptian tongue. Not that, were i correct, which is a big "if" of itself, that would help in any significant way

[@joanapira365]

Weshesh=The ones from the fields

[@ΔημητρηςΥφαντης-η9ω]

καταπληκτικος

[@yonik28]

Нашли государство Пеласат в районе Антиохии на границе Турции и Сирии Возможно и это часть этих народов моря

[@Rithymna]

I prefer to read the comments than say my opinion on this.

[@AGS363]

Hey, there was someone using AI for the Art! (But that is cool)

[@WanaxTV]

Good eye!

[@Cheka__]

I think they were from Atlantis.

[@skordoulismarios5594]

They were all Greeks after all. A massive Greek attack in entire eastern Mediterranean basin and maybe Odyssey refer to this occasion

[@joanapira365]

Ekwesh=the ones who cut the ears

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

skipTARTARoids!!! 🤡🦃🤡🤣

[@budwyzer77]

Do you follow World History by a Jew with Seth Fleishman? He goes into detail regarding the possible/likely link between the Denyen and the Biblical Tribe of Dan.

[@mercianthane2503]

Literally see no relation between the Denyen and the tribe of Dan. Mainly when the name Dan is of semitic origin. You might argue is that some Denyen arrived to the region where the tribe of Dan was established since the 14th century BC.

[@WanaxTV]

@@mercianthane2503 Denyen are described very similarly to Tjekker and Peleset. I think that it's safe to assume that they came from the Aegean, but then again, never know.

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

🤺☦🇷🇺He is absolutely wrong with those Zionist theories he copied from an Israeli dummy. I will tell you exactly who they all were, and who exactly comprise the Greek race (Ion), and solve you the whole mystery: The Caslukhites and Caphtorites, who are the so called "minoans" and "sea people", were distinct Egyptian races from which came the Philistines (Peleset/Pelasgians), who carried haplogroup E3b-v13, and are none other than the Illyrians - today mostly Albanians. And this is the correct description of the family of Greeks: *YAVAN* (Greeks/Ioanians): *Elisha* (Aeolians: Hellas/Elis/Alishiya -mainland Greeks) *Tarshish* (Etruscans: Tarsus, Cilicia/Corsica/Tartessus/Troas; Teresh/Tyrrhenians -Tuscans, east Italy) *Kittim* (Achaeans: Cyprus+aegean islands -Macedonians) *Dodanim* (Dorians: Dardanians, Dodana/Denyen/Dodecanese islands+Rhodes; Italics/Latins=Rome - Italians) And Egyptians: *MITSRAYIM* (Egypt): *Anamim* (Anam+Alexandria) *Lehabim* (Libu/Meshwesh>Libyans) *Naphtukhim* (Napata●) *Pathrusim* (Patros●) *Caslukhim* (Illyrians: Tjekker/Dor, Sicani, Siculi -Albanians) --> -*-Philistines-*- (Cretes>PELESET- Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, Jaffa) *Caphtorim* (Sherden: Cretes-'Minoans'+Sardinians)

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

@@mercianthane2503 Absolutely not. Those theories are ridiculous

[@EasternRomeOrthodoxy]

@@WanaxTV Yes, all were Egyptian nations

[@LuciusQuinctiusCincinnatus111]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@anrot8868]

The biblical Amalek people are the Lukka pirates. Amha...Lekk /people of Lukka

[@WanaxTV]

Not sure about that. Both Egyptian and Hittites describe "Lukka", and Hittites are very specific that Lukka are the Lycians (or "Lykians" in non-latinized Greek).

[@anrot8868]

Yes, I agree, but they also migrated or pirated the coast of Canaan like the other Sea Peoples. Semitic words have no fixed vowels.

[@gurnblanston5000]

@@anrot8868 Good to know, thanks for the lesson. That mean Roman's not using vowels are using Semitic methods?

[@anrot8868]

@@gurnblanston5000 No, it means that in different semitic languages the same word carries the same consonants but the vowels vary for each language.

[@gurnblanston5000]

@@anrot8868 Got it. The Romans did the same sort of. And their V letter is actually a W sound, I learned only a few years ago. Almost makes you think there was few languages in the very deep past.

[@LVPUSTrismegistus]

Huh, who would tell, the fundations of the israeli/abrahamic people revolts around fighting the ancient greeks all the time, i see why things did't go that diferent in the classical era.

[@DANNYFAIRCLOTH]

Could be the fall of the Canaanite society

[@gurnblanston5000]

Wasn't that Jericho?

[@Trollmaisdroll]

Italics

[@joanapira365]

Teresh= The dark skinned ones

[@discount8508]

common sense would dispel any mystery ......the largest naval power at that time should give it away

[@suhelmallick]

who? the greeks or somebody else

[@discount8508]

@@suhelmallick read and find out

[@discount8508]

@@gurnblanston5000 read an old book that based on that time and area and then have a wild guess

[@gurnblanston5000]

@@discount8508 Sumerians, Eskimos, or Cossacks is what we learned at university.

[@discount8508]

@@gurnblanston5000 oh .....so they wrote a story about going on piratical raids sacking cities near the sea .......thats some university you went to

[@wolfgangmcghee1258]

Dislike for bce, great vid though

[@nancysalerno7036]

Sea peoples….,,,Vikings

[@TexasTimeLord]

The Sea Peoples were from Atlantis. It's so obvious

[@Dice_roller]

Atlantis never existed, but it could've been based upon the Sea Peoples' raids along with the Minoan Empire.

[@gurnblanston5000]

@@Dice_roller Wrong. It's the Richat Structure. The details play out...dimensions , materials, and positions. I never believed it until I read the report by the air force.

[@fationmurati-rk5el]

Teresht ter eshte,aksind ,,albanian ,ter eshte,,,nat esht

[@jimkol8799]

I think the sea people were mermaids. 😅🤣😆😂😜🤪😛