Warhammer 40k Our BIG Tacoma Recap! Ups, Downs, Controversy!

Steve and Ian sit down and chat about Steve's experience at the Tacoma Open!

[@austibon]

Super awesome to meet you last weekend Steve! I totally get where you're coming from R1, I got Ben Jurek... I also played against that second Vanguard Tyranids players you had, he barely took me down! Had a super great time overall for my first major tournament. It sounds like you had a good time too. Hope to see you next year! (I was the Knights player you were hoping not to face, you got lucky this time... lol)

[@nicholasd7107]

Haha! Now this is the death match we need!

[@matthewvanginneken6793]

2nd Tyranid player here. GGs Austin, it was a blast playing against your Knights. The game was super close. I still don't know how the swarmlord managed to hold on. Hopefully we can play in the future so we can run it back!

[@austibon]

@matthewvanginneken6793 Can't wait Matthew! I will get my honour back!

[@wetwraith]

I wonder if there is an increase in 'cheating' (purposeful and accidental) since the pay wall on codex armies went back up.

[@coinlobster9489]

It definitely has, I’ve had a few people “forget” rules multiple times and I only knew because I also play the army but wasn’t actively using it

[@stevecollins9650]

This right here... Making the other armies rules inaccessible makes this type of cheating easier to get away with.

[@captaincorundum9788]

Not an excuse.

[@wetwraith]

@captaincorundum9788 couldn't agree more it shouldn't be accepted and should be challenged I was just interested after playing a casual game where my mates codexed army was on his phone I had no access to any of his rules which felt very frustrating because we all know that alot of the strats the devil's in the detail

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

Well done playing the Anvil Siege force. I know it is not very popular competitively - but that also means it is not expected or anticipated.

[@EverydayEldrad]

I reckon it would do quite well in teams too when you can dodge some awkward matchups

[@jacktbc3947]

@@EverydayEldradElite armies are the Awkward matchup for me in siege. Not many 3 damage weapons you can take advantage of with the detachment.

[@EverydayEldrad]

@@jacktbc3947 yeah, probably just have to use anti-tank against them which is a bit of a waste... I guess plasma inceptors/redemptor could help

[@jacktbc3947]

@@EverydayEldrad Yeah I run a max squad of plasma inceptors to deal with any elite infantry. Suppressors would be amazing if they had 3 damage Autocannons like every other autocannon in the game... If the hailstrike was cheaper at like 90 points as well it would be really handy to make bolters force elite infantry to their Invulnerable saves.

[@stanberry6798]

I've got my first tournament with anvil tomorrow, I didn't know infiltrators could block scouts. Thank you, I think this will be very helpful

[@thatbear28]

They don’t block scouts 12” because of their ability. They (and any other unit) block scouts 9” because of how scouts works.

[@mr.trashtastic3947]

Mhm. It's great. It certainly helps you only have to deal with small units popping up if you didn't screen correctly. They saved me from having a monolith in my deployment zone many a time. You also know to take the Helix Gauntlet for a 6+ FnP right?

[@level9Lab]

I dont think the 12" bubble blocks scout. But you cannont use a scout move to get within 9" of your opponents models. So Steve used the infultrators to stunt the scout move of his opponent.

[@generalkayel]

The infiltrators, because they have the infiltrate deployment special rule, can deploy further up the board. If deployed well in front of your own forces, they push the enemy's options for deploying their own infiltrators away from your army and, as others have mentioned, prevent scouts from coming within 9" of where the infiltrators are deployed before the game begins. Combining these ideas, it is possible to create a large area behind which your can deploy your forces that are safe from early attacks by the enemy's scouting units (like melee oriented genestealers). It can, and usually does, mean the loss of the infiltrators, but it is obviously a sacrifice worth making to avoid the debacle Steve described in his first game.

[@chrisprime7767]

It's move blocking.

[@DaRedWunzGoFasta]

It was great to see you at the GT Steve! Maybe next year I can get a Waaagh with you. On the winner's controversy, I can shed a *little* light on the issue. When the Balance Dataslate/Errata/FAQ update came out a couple of weeks ago, it was originally ruled that only the Killkannon reduced the transport capacity. You could take the Ard case and/or Kannon or Zzap gun at full capacity. Later on *the same day* GW released a "Version 1.1" that reduced capacity with any of the upgrades. The issue being that if you updated you app between versions 1 and 1.1, your app would show Ard Case + Kannon = full capacity. (Or downloaded version 1.0 and never rechecked before the tournament).

[@pawestachyra9618]

C'mon, this guy is not your average sunday player who forgot to update his app, it's a blatant cheater with a history of cheating.

[@farimer888]

Got to meet and play Steve round 6 at Tacoma and it was an absolute blast. His IF army was truly awesome to see and lose to.

[@bigg7379]

That guy should not have been able to win the event. Multiple egregious errors over 5 rounds…cmon man. He was also playing snikrot and war boss as t6. He knew what he was doing. He’s on stream cheating by reading a rule (leaving out part of it) to justify his use. This isn’t an isolated game occurrence.

[@curtisbruton732]

Halestorm and Evenescence would be an amazing show, I've seen Evenescence twice and love Halestorm

[@MrHoneuma]

The winner should 1000% be stripped of the win and banned from future events. He was on stream blatantly cheating. He got 2 yellow cards for the battlewagon thing with with different opponents. He got caught cheating and was warned, then proceeded to do keep doing it in following games, getting a 2nd yellow card. With another opponenet who questioned it, he read out the ability from the codex, instead of letting the opponent see it, and explicitly left out the parts where it says that it loses firing deck and that Ghaz can't be in it. And he did that on stream. He also played both normal warbosses and boss Snikrot as if they were t6 instead of t5, and won a game off doing so because he robbed the opponent of scoring assassinate. To add to it, the player in question is a well known cheater, having been caught doing it before and is banned from every LGS in his area. He claimed the TO just told him to take a 10 point hit, but thats not reflected in any of the games wince thyre all 91+ scores. Again, he should be stripped of the win and banned like the cheater he is.

[@piotrjeske4599]

Winners win.

[@captaincorundum9788]

@@piotrjeske4599 Uh... no? This guy is a cheating scumbag with a history of playing like this.

[@matthewvanginneken6793]

GGs Steve. Interesting to hear how you took what you learned playing against Steve Trimble and apply it in our game. I have lots of respect for the Anvil Siegeforce now.

[@redlancer7263]

It was so fun to watch you play Steve! I was the guy with the orange Nike box of models who watched your first game.

[@ianmohr4183]

As a Daemons player who consistently blocks scout movement with Infiltrating Nurglings, it's an amazing strategy that can slow an opponent down more than you think!

[@desertzombie]

Halestorm and the Warning are amazing. Im going to the concert

[@DaRedWunzGoFasta]

Halestorm is *amazing*

[@ianmohr4183]

Regarding the controversy, I like the conservative approach to the warnings but I think each warning should come with a measurable consequence so when the winner is determined those consequences are also considered. So yeah this guy went undefeated, but if you have a certain amount of warnings it turns a W into an L, idk

[@chaseh432]

You know, GW is at fault for the tourney winners problems. If they didnt paywall and block RULES for each faction then everyone can double check and be nice and transparent! My friends and I can double check datasheets, playing someone who you cant even see a datasheet of is insanity

[@jprovorse4159]

People “misinterpreting” rules and the way I handled it are the reasons why I don’t play in tournaments anymore. I don’t handle it well when I’m told I’m wrong when I am definitely correct. I would have lost my shit if that guy was cheating against me and I caught him.

[@nicholasd7107]

Would you have fought him or just made a “issue” of it to the judges?

[@jprovorse4159]

@@nicholasd7107 I’m not a savage, but there would certainly be judges called and voices raised.

[@nicholasd7107]

@@jprovorse4159 Yeah from what little of the 40K community I’ve seen ppl take the game waaaay too serious. I’ve had ppl try to cheat before like it’s life or death. That’s why I just stick to my casual group

[@nofuxgivens2797]

One of the best practices I've made routine in competitive play is to bust out battlescribe/40k app and build their list. I see that it matches what he submitted, what is on the list he has in hand and what he puts on the table. I also take a picture of their army before we deploy, after deployment and start/ finish of every round. 99.9% of the time I catch list mistakes before we start. I also now have all the units stats in my own hand. The least amount of memory you need to resolve conflict is paramount to keep things honest.

[@nofuxgivens2797]

Pro tip....make them stage their army out of their cases. Deploying units out of their cases is hella SUS and where most "honest mistakes" happen

[@nicklauswest9274]

I would love to hear more about terrain set up, and how ruins and footprint work in tournaments. As me and my playing group get deeper into our games, terrain is becoming the most complicated aspect.

[@derekhensche6648]

Congrats at the tournament Steve, sounds like you played great! Props to you to shake off the first game, take what you learned from it and turn it into a W the next game against that detachment!

[@jinofthesheep]

Absolutely pro move to submarine like you did Steve, well played sir! As an aside, I’m always somewhat amazed that the negative story of one player cheating dominates post-tournament discourse, when in reality those individuals usually represent less than 1% of the player base. Just an interesting phenomenon is all!

[@eddieg82]

Hearing more and more about this guy and actually having live footage of him cheating at a previous event, I feels this is a true tryhard that got through.

[@mr.trashtastic3947]

For the Emperor! And Engagement!

[@Powaup]

I wanna hear more anvil breakdown ! How was it at the tournament would you run it again

[@Sir_Prize427]

Just an FYI for those unaware. The Tacoma winner did resign after the tournament.

[@jprovorse4159]

Isn’t the halestorm lady touring with skid row now?

[@WenisTRON]

Great meeting you, first tourney and will be returning in the future.

[@stevecollins9650]

5 games in before they yellow carded him for the Ard Case. The entire tourney is tainted at that point. The best move would have been to 0 out his scores and recalc the next round. He also misrepresented the toughness on 2 of his HQ models. Which would affect several decisions during each game. Really, If it was a mistake and not cheating, the player should have dropped...

[@warlockg1176]

It was so cool seeing Steve there, I never got the chance to watch any of your games or JT’s, mostly because I was playing guard and my games took to long lol. I hope I get to see y’all there next year 😊

[@comeonnodont5569]

Glad you had fun. Always nice to face people and armies you normally don’t see.

[@backlashpirate]

Really fun to say hi last weekend! 🎉nice job!

[@jasonneuhaus6348]

Hey guys! Sorry to hear about a little black cloud hovering over what otherwise sounded like a pretty fun tournament. Do you guys think that BECAUSE Tacoma attracts so many first time "big event" players who are not use to that environment, that it might have fostered the opportunity for someone to try and sneak some "oops, my bad" rules interpretations by some people? Perhaps players who are not as well versed in every army, or are a little overwhelmed at the scope of the event? Or do you feel this was an Isolated incident and the majority of people were playing as upfront as possible? I definitely agree with Steve that someone telling me a character, or special weapon/sergeant equivalent in a unit has a slightly different load out as compared to what they are modeled with seems totally fine to deal with if its well explained and represented. Especially with the points cost changes in 10th for gear and loadouts being cooked in. If someone built their models in 9th or earlier, then they probably chose what made the most sense "points wise" for that edition. I also agree with Ian, that ENTIRE units being represented as something completely different does not feel appropriate for a tournament. Kitchen table, fine. There's no game clock, and its a much more casual and friendly environment to keep asking, "hey, remind me what that is again?" Glad to hear you got on a roll and kept momentum after your first few speed bumps Steve! Your Anvil Siegeforce list convinced me to go pick up a Tor Garadon, and his "ignore cover" has been spicy on my big pack of eradicators jumping out of a repulsor now that it has transport 14!

[@Naddabeht]

Glad you had fun, open game against last years winner is crazy way to open. I’m excited to try the narrative experience in Tampa.

[@EverydayEldrad]

Well done Steve, shame about that first game but it looks like it set you up to actually do pretty well from then on! We learn more from losses than wins, especially heavy ones. have had a couple of big ones in tournaments and it's made me a better player. For example, I got rushed early by blood angels when playing my eldar because I left my Avatar in reserve so had no countercharge threat to tell my opponent to back off. Not making that mistake again!

[@thecasualwargamer5195]

I always play the Anvil Siege Force but mainly for the strats than the detachment ability,

[@lucasharsh1396]

Liked and subscribed. Love y'all's content.

[@NamelessJT]

Saw Steve in person; what a treat. Had to let folks know he's kinda a big deal.

[@jonathanhaynes9914]

I've been playing for two months and Tacoma Open was a great first GT.

[@MathesThe]

Why doesn't a yellow card just count as a loss for that round for the player that receives it? It would probably curb "accidental" rules misinterpretation.

[@AllDay40000]

it was fun meeting ya bud!

[@briancrothers2163]

Great pod!

[@Titoman611]

for folks with proxies, i ask for their printed list and make them go through each proxy for me. also, there's a limit to proxies... and they gotta make sense.

[@EverydayEldrad]

yeah, it's common sense man. For example I pay drukhari and to field two sensible squads of scourge I would need to buy 8 boxes which would leave me with 40 models for the sake of bringing 10. Plus GW massively changed wargear between editions so ppl can't be expected to have all options modelled. If you have a heavy weapon and its a haywire blaster rather than a dark lance then whatever, who cares, most folks can't tell the difference. It is taking the mick a bit if you start running some units in tournaments as completely different ones without making some kitbashing effort though (with some exceptions, like incursors as infiltrators or space marine bikes as outriders)

[@jprovorse4159]

Boom

[@g-monk2775]

Isn't it amazing, SMS has loads of experience and brilliance and still has things to learn. 40k is a big game with so many complexity's. When is Ian going to start talking about his armies and experience?

[@EverydayEldrad]

This, I love Steve but need more from Ian. Especially as Daemons are such a different army to SM, it makes for fresh content. Like trying to run God-specific lists and how to make them work?

[@stuartmortimer3922]

WizzyWig; case by case basis / I agree. Thunder Hammer on Intercessor sergeants in 9th and now it’s all power Fists for example. That’s fine. The sword is the fist. The hammer is the fist. Absolutely fine. But Tac Marines are now INSERT NAME / not coooo

[@coachmike27able]

I definitely agree with playing by the rules, but because I was not there, my question would be the stuff that the guy was cheating with, how much did that affect his win. Would it have been a loss if he would have done it right?

[@David-li4uw]

I’d rather get acupuncture from Konrad Curze than play in tournaments with these cats playing now.

[@jonmattison3939]

'Tacoma has the highest percentages of first time attendees' can be taken different ways. If the total number of attendees is going up year after year: 1000, then 1500, then 1700, 2000... then it can be a good thing if more of the attendees are new first-time attendees. However, if the total attendee count is more static, and a high percentage of attendees are 'first-timers' then that suggests that theres a greater amount of churn a lot of turnover.. Repeat attendees are not repeating. After watching your 'prepping for Tacoma' video I was looking forward to this afteraction report. Especially good with the photos. I'm building out my own Vanguard Tyranid list and liking how these two pictured builds look.

[@jonmattison3939]

Will there be a "Ian's experience" video coming? Also, if I heard it correctly Steve mentioned starting 0-2 but then going 4-0? so 4-2 after six. How about the last two games?

[@disregardingdice7524]

Tacoma was the biggest Gw event hosted. So it’s large, lots of new players in an area GW hasn’t hosted events means more players. That’s the likely reason.

[@SinCitysOnly]

Those of us that are true Casual players tend to get more upset about Tournament players that do stuff like this than other Tournament players, because this is the kind of shenanigans that makes GW react and start making or modifying rules, and us Casuals don't want to have to learn new rules every few months.

[@cameronwoods-reynolds4793]

It sounds like the ork player at Tacoma has the same problem I do. I like to have my army WYSIWYG, because I get messed up. My Leviathan Box terminators, painted deathwing, modeled with an assault cannon. On turn 1 I say it has a plasma cannon but I WILL forget that by turn 3. I magnetize a lot of my models for that reason!

[@Square_Planar]

I would be more sympathetic to that if there hadn't been a point where an opponent asked him to clarify the loadout, and he read out the wording from the codex leaving out the sentence that meant he was doing it wrong.

[@cameronwoods-reynolds4793]

It could have been an honest mistake. It could have been blatant cheating. I wasn't there so I have no idea. I magnetize my models to prevent the mistake, because I know my own weakness haha. The ork guy at Tacoma should have done the same with his truck.

[@crazuri2]

40k

[@airborne248]

It isn’t just about this event. Marshall Peterson is a known cheater. He’s banned from events in his own community and everyone who plays at a mid-high level knows that he’s misrepresent rules to win. The fact that he’s been allowed to play makes it problematic for people who want to show up and play in good faith then get matched into him when he’s a known bad-actor.

[@Tofukartoffel144]

Great to win with a non-meta list, but also not a shame to lose with a non-meta list. So many people played worse with copy/paste meta lists.

[@erikwhitney7403]

Steve. I don’t think it’s very hard. Simple to say 2-3 yellow cards or 1 red and you are disqualified. It’s fair for everyone. I had something similar on a CCG where I loss a free placement in a grand final tournament.

[@piotrjeske4599]

But he never got multiple yellow in one game. To get a Red card you would need to both cheat and get caught multiple times. After an event the results are what they are, and if no one caught you , it is as if you did nit cheat.

[@erikwhitney7403]

@@piotrjeske4599 multiple over a course of games is bad enough. Unless you can show that it’s common that most players get a yellow card each game then I can agree.

[@Square_Planar]

​@@piotrjeske4599 in sports, multiple yellows in separate matches can lead to disqualification the same as a red card.

[@davidkimball5222]

I think we have to all accept that a very small minority of players either don't really recognise or care about the social contract or whose cognitive bias is so warped by competitiveness they don't realise they are bending/breaking rules. Not sure how that can be solved.

[@shaneknobbs8922]

Steve question. I am running anvil Should I trade out ballistus and eliminators for a lander crusader to give tor biologist and 6 aggressors a transport?

[@chrisprime7767]

I'm not Steve but yes, i would 100%.

[@shaneknobbs8922]

@@chrisprime7767 okay thank you not Steve lol

[@spacemarinesteve6057]

You absolutely should

[@wischfulthinking]

Leave the pictures on screen while you are talking about the games! We do not need to look at you talking.

[@piotrjeske4599]

The goal of an event us to pick the winner through a set of games and nit to be "fun" for everyone. And letting a kniwn cheater, yellow card himself in to a championship only works ,if word about it never gets out. The monent it does two things happen A people get angry and B it is from now on okey to cheat as long as the TOs let you do it

[@Kitbash.Carnage]

🔥🤘❤️

[@piotrjeske4599]

Losing at deployment. Well at least it is not losing at army pick or army builfing level

[@nicholasd7107]

Social contract get violated = violator must now go on a repentance crusade

[@EverydayEldrad]

Off to the Penitent Engine

[@chrisprime7767]

There is definitely a trend when it comes to "cheating" players. Some army rules are just so convoluted, its easy to cheat or sometimes hard to play correctly. A few weeks back, it was a Tau player cheating and now its a Ork player. Both factions have so many small abilities, hard to play that correctly/easy to cheat.

[@chrisprime7767]

I was wondering, do you guys plan a Hyperspace Hobbies Discord? Im loving the conversations here and thought it would be a cool community.

[@StaticSilence1]

I think reactive moves are among the worst rules GW ever created. If the intent of GW is to create an enjoyable game between two people they shouldn't be creating rules that suck the wind out people's sails in the middle of their turn.

[@Olsnapper]

so just cheat your way to the top with hardly a slap on the wrist? yeah that is real encouraging...

[@stephen9to5]

I play someone who never has anything wysiwyg. It's so annoying. He plays chaos so everything has special things

[@level9Lab]

[@CarbonBallas]

Just token flag those differentiating models. Simple.

[@brothertobias]

Gotchas are really scummy. I let my opponents take back any positioning they didn't consider for my rapid ingresses or even whole overwatch rolls when the sequence was ridiculous. And I always mention reactive moves too. If I win off of a gotcha, I didn't win.

[@JohnDoe-rp7mf]

Yoooo

[@lukerogan1505]

With regards to proxying, is it acceptable to say all models in the army with a certain weapon actually have a different one? My example is all of my eligible custodes are equipped with the castellan axe. Would it be reasonable to say all models have guardian spears as a proxy?

[@chrisprime7767]

I think that's okay, you're not proxying the model to be something completely different, it's just the loadout. We had people in rtts playing black templars, but they used AOS Stormcasts for all the units. It was a nightmare.

[@AdamOnAnalogue]

I wouldn't have an issue with it if. If the load outs were different for multiple models within the unit then it becomes an issue, as it becomes practically impossible to remember what the unit can do / the threat it poses. Even more so when models in that unit get killed off.

[@captaincorundum9788]

Marshall deserves a lifetime ban. He has a history of cheating and he needs to seek help.

[@JaySharp604]

Not only does it sour the taste of the Tacoma tournament, it will also affect next year's showing. Will people actually go next year, knowing full well cheaters can win the tournament?